How Connection And Self-Worth Transform Troubled Teens with Dr Suzanne Simpson (USA)

What if the first step to learning isn’t a lesson plan, but a human connection? We sit down with Dr Suzanne Simpson, a veteran educator who left elite French immersion to teach on a psychiatric unit and now leads an alternative programme for teens navigating anxiety, substance use, and trauma. The picture she paints is raw and hopeful: classrooms as triage zones, yes, but also as places where a simple “What’s up?” can open a door that grades and detentions never could.

We unpack what alternative education really means: later starts, self-paced work, fewer tests, and a culture designed to reduce shame and stabilise mental health. Simpson explains how flexibility and rigour are not enemies; they’re sequenced. Emotional regulation comes first so the brain can learn, then expectations scale with each student’s capacity. We explore the darker currents—rising classroom violence, the pressure of achievement culture, and a generation reporting record loneliness—and the policy tensions around inclusion and safety. Along the way, Simpson shares the small, replicable practices that rebuild trust: get on their turf, seek them out, learn their struggles, and let your face light up when they enter the room.

Two powerful stories anchor the episode. One student cycles through hospital school four times before choosing sobriety and high marks in science; another, scarred by domestic violence, stumbles through relapse to steady recovery and joy. Both turnarounds begin with belonging and grow into self-worth—the quiet conviction that “I matter, and my problems matter.” If you work with young people, parent them, or simply care about the future of schooling, this conversation offers a clear blueprint for meeting teens where they are and helping them rise.

If this resonated, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs hope today, and leave a review with the one change you’d make to education. Your voice helps this community grow.

Music, lyrics, guitar and singing by Dr Ariel Rosita King

Teach me to live one day at a time
with courage love and a sense of pride.
Giving me the ability to love and accept myself
so I can go and give it to someone else.
Teach me to live one day at a time.....

Transcript

Meet Dr Suzanne Simpson

Dr Ariel R King 0:43

Hello and welcome to another episode of The Business of Life with Dr. King. Today we have a very special guest, Dr. Suzanne Simpson. Welcome.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

Hello. Thank you for having me.

Dr Ariel R King 0:54

Thank you. Would you please tell our audience a bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Yeah. So I am Dr. Suzanne Simpson. I am a teacher by trade. I have taught 30 years now. I started in French immersion. I am in Canada. So we are bilingual. So I taught 20 years in this very high-paced academic program of French immersion with doctor and lawyer parents throughout my parent class, the parents of the class. And then I moved to the psychiatric unit to teach in a small classroom there in 2018. And I was there for five and a half years. And that's where I did my doctoral research about what did the teenagers, not us adults, but the teenagers say that they needed for mental health and wellness and to support that. And as they had growing substance use disorders. And so I now teach in alternate education, but I also branded my research, which is my platform that I stand upon today to spread that word.

What Alternative Education Means

Dr Ariel R King 1:50

I love it. When you talk about alternate education, what exactly does that mean? Is it just an education that takes most young people? Or what do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_01 1:58

So we I will I think it is different around the world. How do we deal with kids that have high anxiety or substance use, or they're the ones that are throwing the F-bombs and they're throwing the spitballs and they're getting in fights? Not everybody can handle the mainstream programs. So here in Norway, I will say Canada and the US, alternate ed alternate education programs are let's provide them a different way to do their high school degree. So it is really looking specific at that specific learner. And my whole high school is altered, which isn't normal. That's not normal here. So I've got, you know, we start a bit later, there's no tests, it's self-paced. You go at your own pace. And we end early and we've got tea time. So it's it's a it's a it's a system to accommodate the kids for whom the mainstream system does not work.

Dr Ariel R King 2:58

Actually, it sounds humanistic. Yeah. It sounds more like instead of being in mind step, you start at this time, you start at this time, you raise your hand, you ask to go to the to relieve yourself. It sounds more, I don't know, it just sounds more ebb and flow. It sounds more natural to me. Is is that right? Or am I understanding this? No, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

And and here's the big thing about alternate education is you are not behind anymore. How many students feel they're always behind, they can't keep up, they've got due dates, assignments, tests, and in the altet system, it is you're no longer behind because you are where you are at, and it is your journey, it's not your parents' journey, it's not the adult's journey. So it might take a bit longer. But you know, we have rising suicide rates across the world. So I have I I have seen this system can create a bit of laziness because you don't have those deadlines, but I would rather somebody alive and working through their anxiety and working through the depression and graduate maybe six months, a year later, that's okay. At our age, that's nothing, right? I I repeated grade six. Nobody knows that. I I I redid grade six to go into French immersion. Does anybody know I did an extra year? Does anybody care? I'm 53. Not at all.

Human-Centred Schooling vs Rigid Norms

Dr Ariel R King 4:18

I think it's wonderful you did the extra year, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Yeah, I wanted I wanted to do French immersion, so I I chose to repeat it. No. Anyway, so that's the alternate end system.

Dr Ariel R King 4:28

So so may I ask you? I mean, it's really interesting that we call this alternative education. And just to flip it around a bit, don't you think that that should be the norm and the step in line step and do what everybody else does should be the quote unquote alternative? Good question.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

So not necessarily. Because if I never had a deadline, if I did not have to learn the rigors of how how to write a test, how to meet that demand, I may be malpositioned for life. So while I am the very first person to say we meet everybody where they're at, I'm also the very first person to say we need to teach our kids emotional regulation, number one, number one thing we teach them. But we also need to prepare them for the big bad world of adulting. If you're in a job and you can't meet a deadline, it's called getting fired. That's so cute. And there's a spectrum of that. There's a spectrum. So if you've got somebody at home, I've got kids that have been literally at home for a few years with depression. That's nowhere near my own children that are doing really well with their mental health and off to university. So we have to meet them where they're at. And so for my kids, actually, my daughter wanted to go to the alt-ed program. And I I I I wasn't opposed, but not yet, because I knew pitfalls of it. But I I say pitfalls for the person for for whom it is not appropriate because we need to still prepare our kids for the real world. So where are they at? But if they're with debilitating anxiety, then you go back to there. And you don't need the deadlines then. Great, you're getting to school. I've got a girl that comes after school just to get into the building. She goes up some side stairs that we found. She'll text me from behind a pillar saying I'm here because she doesn't want to see anybody. But she has been successful because the last two years she's been at home and not even getting out. So we're working with that.

Dr Ariel R King 6:28

That's wonderful. I bet it's meeting the young people where they are and letting them know that you're there with them on that journey, that wherever they are, you're going to meet them on that journey. So someone with high anxiety needs that. And then it would it would seem that unless it's a private school also, I think that some private schools allow more for individual journeys. And I think that if you have schools that that, of course, have budgets and limitations with staff and limitations with time, and basically you have to get as many people as you can to be successful year after year, it it could be understood that it's difficult to make those changes for individuals.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

Right. I I so private schools, I've seen both. The problem is the achievement culture we have in our world is toxic. So I think that one depends on what the private school views as what's appropriate. But I think the key in everything you just said, the absolute fundamental consideration is that spectrum of where they're at. Because you have to start where they're at. And if they're way over here and they're gonna go become a lawyer and they can sit and work 12 hour days and they get their stuff in on time and they've had zero trauma in their upbringing, then it's very, very different than somebody who's having gone through. You have to understand.

Dr Ariel R King 7:54

So the differences that make that that make a difference. You know, may I ask you, you worked in uh what we call mainstream, and now you work in quote unquote alternatives. Um what was your journey like going from mainstream to alternatives?

Balancing Flexibility With Real-World Demands

SPEAKER_01 8:10

Oh, mainstream, I had parents at my butt. Like I said, I had seven lawyers and five doctor parents once in a class. Give you an idea. It was academic. I feel forgetting so the nice thing is when you become more confident and you've got relations, and my kids were at that school, so it was a real weird dynamic of I was also a parent there. I was vocal. I'm like, you French immersion parents, you are the biggest pain in the butt, parents. And you lawyers are the bigger pain in the butt. And my friend lawyer says it's litigators, like we're the worst. So just to be able to acknowledge that was good. But at any rate, I started really loving working with the kids that were struggling. That filled my soul. And working with the ones that no teacher wanted, working with the ones that were always in the principal's office, I'd see them in fights. They were like getting stabbed by a pencil, their houses were getting egged. I grew to love that within this high academic program. And really important to note is that at the psychiatric unit, like my work speaks for this, and and just the kids that I worked with is doesn't matter your socioeconomic standing. There is trauma everywhere, there's neglect everywhere, and and people, kids do a really good job of hiding it. They're masters, especially now with social media, masters of learning the facade. So I loved working with those kids, and I actually ended up going to my the the admin at the school I'm at now saying, I think I need to work here, I think this is my calling. And every year I'd contact him, and it was about six years later I got hired for this this the job at the psychiatric in it. So I it was just taking those kids that struggled, but it was rooted in my own relationship building and in my shift about year five of teaching. It took me a bit that my relationships are first. My September goal is to build relationships with the kids, to get to know them individually, securely attached relationships, and from there everything else can go.

Dr Ariel R King 10:07

That does make all the difference, doesn't it? When you you're a trusted adult, they feel that they can, if not talk to you, that you will accept them for whoever they are, as they are. And that that that attached relationship you're talking about is everything. You know, everything that's that's something that all of us want in one way or another. But we all do considering that you're there.

SPEAKER_01 10:28

And for disciplining, like for parents working with their kids, you cannot correct behavior if you don't have that connection first. It won't it it won't work. Or there's conflict or F-bomb.

Dr Ariel R King 10:44

It's true. This makes this makes all the difference in the world. May I ask for the young people that you work with now, do you what age do you start at? Do you start at uh uh 10, 11, or are you really mostly working with teenagers?

SPEAKER_01 10:57

So teenagers. Usually alternate education starts at say 13 years old. It depends on the system. We have districts here, like every city is a school district. So the districts all run themselves. We're not run provincially, it's run at a district level. I have heard of programs that start at 12 years old, but it's normally 13, 14. Some of them are 15, actually, depends on the district. Because by then it's like it really does emerge and they really need that. So in elementary school, maybe I think you hope that you still work with them and things shift. But then I'll tell you, by that age of 13, 14 years old, if if you've got mental health challenges, that's where they skyrocket. I I've heard this over and over again 13, 14, especially 14, like you were struggling, and then you hit that age in puberty and it just takes off.

Dr Ariel R King 11:42

Makes all the difference. Can I ask with some of this, with some of your young people, do they have difficulties in their homes and in their families? Or um are these just difficulties also of just growing up and and you know, the process of having to go through those teenage years?

Meeting Teens Where They Are

SPEAKER_01 12:01

So I have said, let's start with the psychiatric unit, which is the end of the road. We we took kids the very end of the road. They had to have exhausted community supports before they got to us. We were tertiary, meaning therapeutic. You weren't just in and you're out. I worked with them in school, they had counseling, found the counseling. I had said to be very generous. Maybe 3% came from homes that they had secure attachment, they didn't have trauma, they felt unconditionally loved. Even when they made a mistake, I'm still loved. I said maybe 3%. I would say now, because this is I'm broader now with alternate education. I would, I'm gonna just loosely say maybe 20% come from homes of full stability. So we do have the kids that are the most marginalized. We have the families that are probably this just the most family struggles, we have the most involvement with the Ministry of Child and Family Develop Development, so social work. It is high. There's a high correlation. The discussion of home and things starting at home is a whole other unpolitical can of worms. It will it starts at home.

Dr Ariel R King 13:19

Well, it makes all the difference. So, you know, young people spend most of their time at school. So perhaps building that security, building that stability, building that development within the school is like a second home.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm just presenting about that on Friday. And it's those micro moments because teachers are frazzled. Like our profession is in crisis. I now call the classroom a triage zone. We are triaging. I've got teachers I've presented, and they say, like, I can't turn my back to the class. Another teacher last year said, I have been bit, I have been hit, and she is in one of the wealthiest areas of Canada, and it's kindergarten. So we are a triage zone.

Dr Ariel R King 14:06

So you're telling me, pardon me, you're telling me that now there's a lot of violence that are that teachers are experiencing from the children themselves?

SPEAKER_01 14:14

Absolutely. Here I will speak for Canada and the United States. Absolutely. More. More since COVID, for sure.

Dr Ariel R King 14:21

And may I ask why do you think why why do you think this is happening?

SPEAKER_01 14:26

I well, I think I again I feel that that starts at home. I think that when kids feel disconnected, they're gonna lash out. If they are struggling with their mental health, they could lash out. If they don't have boundaries at home, and I feel that parents are feeling more and more disempowered and don't know what to do, that plays out at school. You don't have a kid on perfect behavior at home who's never violent, then going to school and hitting everybody around him. That doesn't happen. So, and and it could be other things like autism, spectrum disorder, which is I think a different case. I don't think that that's that's a neurological developmental disorder that's I think in a different category. But there more and more I'm hearing reports about increased violence for sure.

Dr Ariel R King 15:18

And the other thing too very difficult for the other children around also because they don't feel safe and secure if there's violence within the class. Yeah. Uh I'm wondering whether or not we're we're we become too tolerant or there's too much tolerance. I don't know about we all over the world, but there's too much tolerance for young people not following rules and basically acting the way they want, including hitting and biting and this type of thing, which I find absolutely outrageous.

Achievement Culture And Private Schools

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Absolutely. And I think we have more tolerance here in North America, Canada, the States. But here's the other thing that we have here is inclusion practices. So if you have somebody with autism spectrum disorder who's very violent, who hits because of the autism, it is their right to attend school. So it depends on your district, but there's a lot more eagerness and policy to include students who are violent. And there are lawsuits if they're not included. And I I'm the first I'm very pro-inclusion, but what my concern is then everybody, if other people are paying the price, or you have kids at home with their own violence towards mom at home, and then they come to school and they watch violence towards others or towards them. That's not a safe space. But we are seeing growing inclusion practices here. So also those part of it, part of it.

Dr Ariel R King 16:43

Those with brain, brain issues, right? Those with I mean, my mother was a clinical psychologist, so she would talk about brain brain developmental issues or brain issues as a result either of alcohol or of brain trauma. We would call it some kind of brain trauma. Is that what we're seeing? Because you can have someone who's autistic that's not necessarily going to be violent, but then you can have a violent child who has not been diagnosed with whatever the issue is.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

Right. You know, uh so I am I'm not I'm not a registered counselor, I'm not a psychologist, so this is only my observation. I actually think it's a big combination. Yeah, I think it's a large combination. I think it's a combination of inclusion factors where we do have kids on autism spectrum disorder that are violent and lash out at home and at school. And it's it's there's a spectrum, as you know, autism spectrum disorder. So the inclusion practices mean that the right to school means that could be one reason at school. We also have kids that are more disconnected than ever. Research has shown in the last five years that this generation upcoming is the loneliest and most disconnected ever before than ever before. So I want to suggest that's also part of it because when we don't have connection, we lash out. And I do feel also parents are frazzled. We have increasing financial instability in homes where some people can't put food on the table and they're just trying to survive.

unknown 18:13

Right?

SPEAKER_01 18:14

You look at Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Guess what? You got to eat first. And dealing with behavior is gonna be down that rung. And I think that that stress is another one. I I I really think it's multifaceted.

Dr Ariel R King 18:28

That makes that makes sense. Can I ask how about the violence within the games, violence on television, violence, violence in social media, uh, access to learning about and understanding things or being exposed at a very early age? Do you think that also has something to do with the disconnection and also the violence within the classroom? Well the frustration level.

Relationships First As Teaching Strategy

SPEAKER_01 18:50

Yeah, let's talk about gangs. What's the very heart of a gang? It's connection. Found your people. Right. People who are for you. I want to suggest that the antidote to gangs is found is connection with like healthy connections. Because people want their tribe. You know, we have an area here in Vancouver, it's called the Downtown East Side. We have probably the highest fentanyl deaths in all of North America. And I worked with a lot of kids that live down there, and it's high homelessness, high substance use disorders. And I'll give an example of one girl in particular. She was raised with every single trauma possible that you could ever imagine by the age of six. She had an ACES score of 10 by the age of six. And she was raised on the downtown east side. And her mom ended up on the streets living homeless and a walking zombie on drugs. Her dad, same thing. And she was on her own. And she said to me, It's my home, it's my people. And they understand me because we've all been through the same stuff. And the community there is so tight. So there's your connection.

Dr Ariel R King 20:02

And so our government isn't that absurd. Yep. And we get each other.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

It's, you know, I've had so many say there's a lure to go back down there, even though they know drugs are rampant. I'm trying to stay sober. And we're trying to fix our homelessness crisis and our drug overdose and our drug crisis. And we're we're not actually hitting the heart of human connection. We talk about finding housing, like building more housing, offering a safe injection site for your drugs. And I'm not hearing anybody say, How can we build healthy connections? To offset the very reasonable thing.

Dr Ariel R King 20:41

How do we build community? I am because we are. Where's that community? So you're saying also that some of these young people are becoming violent or are violent because they don't feel the connection, not feeling a connection. So that also means that they don't have a connection to themselves because connection to community, connection to family allows you to understand yourself better, who you are and how you fit into the world. So these children sound like they're a bit lost.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

Yeah. And the other thing though, I think I want to add that I think is super important, and I think this, I argue this is actually you want to really get down to the root, this is it, is self-worth. Because what happens when you're connected, you have self-worth. I matter. Somebody sees me, my problems matter. So ultimately, from connection, you have that sense. And so look at gangs, look at violence. And I I also I believe that's also a huge, huge aspect of what we're seeing is that when self-worth is lacking, we also lash out, our behavior aligns with our own lack of esteeming who we are. So we have to in homes, in schools, it is it is really the number one that then comes from connection. So for me and my students, it's like, how do I build their self-worth? Number one. And there's my connection.

Dr Ariel R King 22:08

Right. You were saying that the number one thing is is is finding out who they are and making that connection with them. And that that's the that's the primary, that's the first thing that you do for them. May I ask you, as someone who's been in this and someone who has such a passion for working with young people, especially those who find themselves with real difficulty, what would be the formula for helping them to develop a very good self. Force, no matter what they're doing in life. What is the formula for?

When Mental Health Spikes At Fourteen

SPEAKER_01 22:42

So it's I coined the term get on their turf. And I think it actually starts with get on their turf. For example, what do they want to do? Hey, what do you want to do today? Do you want to go for a bike ride? Can I take you for a burger or whatever you can people can afford? Right? There's your self-worth because now my father or mother wants to spend time with me. And I am that good of a human being. They they want that time into me, right? So there's your self-worth is that time is so easy. It's go spend some time. What do you want to do? Let's go do it. It's your turf. It's not what I want to do. And then the second one is where do you want to be? So do you have a kid ever like really wanting to go to dad's office to find them? They want to be sought out. So a knock on the bedroom door and just being with them, right? And then also, how are they where are they at emotionally or psychologically? And if they're dealing with anxiety, self-worth is you're their bulldog and you're learning about it to help support them. There's the worth too. And that's a spectrum as well. What do they want to do? Where do they want to be? Where are they at? And we meet them. And and really it's so much, I just think is that time spent. And here's the last one. Does your face light up when your child walks into the room?

Dr Ariel R King 24:06

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

There's your self-worth. Does your face light up when your child walks into the room? That makes sense. That will be the answer. You matter. I see you. I adore you. You are worthy. And whatever you do, I'll still just love you just as much.

Dr Ariel R King 24:23

May I ask as a as a teacher and as someone who works with and really loves to be around the students that you you are, isn't that what you give them? I mean, what you said is one of the first things you try to figure out is who are you? And you know, I want to I want to learn more about you. You're so important. What what what what's important to you? What are you excited about? What gives you fear? How can I how can I help you adjust like this other young lady you're telling about? Yeah. Can you tell us about, without giving us names, about just any of the young people that you saw were able to go from some difficulty to at least starting to meet themselves and what they love to do as a result of this alternative education that you provide?

SPEAKER_01 25:06

I got a good one. But first of all, I think it's important to note that with the kids that you encounter, really making sure that that that they know that they matter in your life, getting off the laptop, leaning in, having those discussions about a weekend. It doesn't have to be anything fancy. That that is so that those little and and also teachers are so busy. I had the privilege of have a lot of time with the kids. That's not normative. But even the offering, like I mentioned, those micro moments, uh, hello in the hallway, hey, how is your weekend? You can't spend hours with a kid that I can, but we're as a village together. That's what we do. So a story I had a girl that she was on my psych unit for probably four times. And I first met her at 13 years old, and she wasn't going to school, and she was heavily into drugs, and she had a lot of mental health challenges. And I asked her, I ran into her at a store about after visit four. I said, What did our unit do for you? She said, This is powerful. It showed me that I mattered and that my problems mattered and that I'm worth fighting for. That's what our team did. I matter. Is that goosebumps, right? I matter, my problems matter, and I am worth fighting for. So what that did for her then moving forward was she became a bit of a fighter. I don't need to live like this. This doesn't have to be a lot. I deserve to live abundantly and full and with joy. So she now, this girl who had dropped out, you know, she she gave me a step-by-step play of how to steal a very expensive sweater from Lululemon by pulling off the tag and because it she taught me how to do it. She's now at university, she's third year, she's in sciences, she's adamant to become a psychiatrist, and she's rocking it. She's sober, she's getting high A's, but it was knowing it was the power of knowing that.

Dr Ariel R King 27:04

That that she was worthy of time, she was worthy of energy, and she was worthy of a good life.

SPEAKER_01 27:10

And that her problems mattered because if we have problems in life, we have to fight for ourselves with that.

Home Stability, Trauma And School

Dr Ariel R King 27:17

That's amazing. That's really amazing. Thank you for that. Can you give us one other example? I mean, that was very powerful. Any any other example? Um boys too, and are boys different?

SPEAKER_01 27:31

No, they're not. The boys, we could have a whole other discussion about what's happening with boys. Our boys are a mess. We're, you know, they're being raised in this culture right now, saying that they're the big bad perpetrator, that they've done all the bad in this world to us, women or colonization. But I have a boy, I adore this kid. I might start crying because I just love him so much. Oh gosh, look at me, I'm gonna start crying. So I had him at 15 first. Look at me. And he came to the unit at 15 years old, lots of violence at home. And he went on a bender from drugs because the boyfriend was strangling his mother. I was probably over the course of three years with him in ER, at least four times, because he'd have an overdose or be like as high as a kite. And I am still really close to him. I was just messaging with him, and and he and my son are now good friends, which is funny. But he was, you know, dad, they figured died by suicide when he was in grade eight. Nobody told him until he was much older. Mom took the money from the inheritance to buy her own home with a boyfriend, and he came to us, and this is the greatest kid in the world, but he'd had all this trauma that anybody would go to drugs because it takes it all away. We have no stone to throw there with what this kid's been through. And he loved his drugs. He had one time I was he was going back, coming back to me, and we plotted it. And I took him out for lunch first, and he's got these just ADHD stimulants, and he's literally stroking the pills. And I learned he's he snuck them in and they put it in the wash. So it all went through the washing machine in his pants, and he lost all of it. But he literally was like, This is how much he's stroking this is how much he loved it. He ended up a long journey to sobriety where it didn't happen right away, and he was like figuring out, okay, I could just use once a week, or I'm gonna do my P tests where I'll be sober then, and then I can use a few days after, and then I'll go back to my P test to this organization. And it was just this slow road for him of abstinence where he is sober and he went to rehab a few times, and he is finding joy in life. And this is a kid that comes from so much trauma, but we know he's had community around him, he's felt loved, and it's a same thread there, isn't it? Yes, it is. And he is rising above on his own because of just all of these opportunities. There wasn't a single moment, those are the micro opportunities I'm I'm mentioning. It doesn't happen all at once. So if for parents, educators, we just keep all as a village drilling that in.

Dr Ariel R King 30:12

Thank you so much. Believe it or not, our 30 minutes went so quickly. I can't believe it. Would you like to leave any last thoughts with our audience?

SPEAKER_01 30:22

Yeah, if you don't know what to do with either a student or a child, start with a question. If you don't know what to say, if you get conflict in a response, find a question. A really good question is what's up? Hey, what's up? How are you doing? To start communication because there's I know that there's a lot of fear these days and a lot of disconnection. And I will say that kids love a question because it shows that you're interested, it shows them that they matter in your life. Watch your tone of voice, watch your facial expression. You know, don't no judgment in the question. But but that's a starting point to connecting with somebody that you think is not connectable.

Dr Ariel R King 31:08

Thank you so much, Dr. Suzanne Simpson, for being with us. And for our audience, remember if I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? If not now, then when? That was by the great philosopher Hillel. And I've added, if not me, then who? Thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for having me. Thank you, Dr. Suzanne Simpson. It was wonderful.