Let Them Be Special!

In this episode Joelle and Gillian talk about a strategy to support students who are seeking a connection from a teacher in which they have some kind of status or privilege that is atypical.  This pattern often comes up among students who do not have the basic human need met of feeling special in some part of their lives.  Sometimes this pattern comes up when students have family lives outside of school in which their parents are overwhelmed, the student is in foster care, or the student feels anxious about parental well-being.  This can also come up when school-based trauma like bullying is happening for a student. In such cases, they may seek the grounding of special connection from the teacher without knowing what is driving their actions.  This dynamic can also occur if the student feels chronically unsuccessful in school academically and socially.   This pattern may begin with the student seeking out positive connection, being extra helpful, and being very charming.  When the teacher inevitably sets a reasonable boundary for their relationship with the student, this can feel like a deep rejection rather than a helpful limit setting, as might be expected.  When this felt rejection occurs, teachers may be surprised by a shift in the student’s engagement or behavior.  The student may seek their attention through escalation rather than helpfulness.  Recognizing that the student may need to feel special and creating a path to meet that need in a predictable and relatively insignificant manner can shift the dynamic to be one in which the student gets a regular reassuring dose and the teacher is not overwhelmed by needs inspired by factors outside of their control.  Joelle and Gillian discuss scenarios and give fun examples for this approach.  

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Transcript

Hello, welcome back to A Stance of Curiosity. I’m Gillian Boudreau. And I'm Joelle van Lent. Today we're going to talk about specialness. Yes, so there's an idea around Students who, and I think this happens in all grade levels. I can think of examples right now in elementary school, but I do think for sure this would be all grade levels. There are sometimes students in a classroom who seem to need to be special to the teacher. And that would be different from just needing feedback or reassurance or, you know, the kind of praise. And you're on the right track, that everyone needs when they're engaged in any kind of learning endeavor, there are students who seem to need to have something in their relationship with the teacher where they feel like they are special, they have something that other people don't.

So what that ends up looking like often is that teachers do a really good job of trying to be very equitable and fair about how they relate to students, and so certainly teachers are totally okay with giving somebody a snack but not everybody a snack or somebody accommodations but not everybody accommodations somebody a fidget but not everybody a fidget because we know that fair is not equal. Fair is when Everyone's needs are met. We have resources like pencils, attention, and flexible seating and fidgets, and we distribute the resources to meet the needs, which is different from everybody having exactly the same. So I think we've gotten to a pretty good point with that in terms of resources. But then there's this other element where a student seems to be pulling on the teacher, an actual special relationship with them.

And so lots of teachers will ask, 'What do I do because when I try to be equitable with my relationships and I have a really clear boundary in my role, Which always teachers should have clear boundaries in their role. But when I try to do that, they seem to somehow create a scenario where I am spending more time with them than I intended to, or they are with me somehow on what would have been my lunch, or they are somehow getting more from me. And so my response to that has been, There are times where students have an unmet need to be special outside of school or in school. So that could be, for example, a student who thinks in their lives outside of school are very overwhelming and chaotic and adults are in parents, caregivers are in survival mode themselves.

So they are not. Right at that time, able to create the kind of relationship with their child where their child feels like they have the attunement and the listening and the specialness at home. So what children and teenagers will do is seek that out in other relationships where the adults seem to be functioning better, which is actually really adaptive and really smart. If my parents are completely overwhelmed in survival mode, this teacher seems like he or she is kind of doing okay. I will get it you know that here and and I think it's unconscious, I don't think it's ever intentional, but it's just we all need to be special to some significant people and and know that those people are thinking about us when we are not with them and that they are um proactively planning to make sure that we're okay and that they're noticing what we need, even without our having to say it.

I think that's how I might define specialness. So I've recommended many times just let them be special, you know it allows create a plan that you have designed so therefore you feel a little less coerced and a little more like 'I', this is something that would work for me and it would allow them specialness, and and so for example I have one fourth grade teacher that has a drawing journal with a student, so every day she draws a little picture for the student and leaves it in her desk, the student draws a little picture back and leaves it on the teacher's desk, and so they pass it back and forth, it might not even be every day that a picture is drawn but it goes back and forth, and the teacher does not have a drawing picture journal with anybody else, and when people notice the teacher says 'that is my plan with so and so and um and and you know it's really an adult job to worry about who needs what,

You know, I'll kind of sort that out as the adult. I have teachers who have a scarf on their chair and the students, the only one that's allowed to wrap themselves in that scarf when they're doing reading or the only one that's allowed to take the attendance up to the office or the only one who's allowed to sit in a certain spot or it really can be relatively small. And seems to quiet the ways in which we might maneuver, sometimes called manipulative, but I don't like that label. It's a label of behavior, not character. So people might try to maneuver and get that specialness in a way where the teacher felt like they didn't actually agree to that. It feels a little coercive. And it's not a healthy dynamic that you're setting up.

So that's something that I thought would be interesting for us to talk about more in terms of like what might that be about, and the ambivalence that some teachers understandably feel when I recommend that. Before we get into that, can you say more about manipulation, like character versus behavior? I thought that was really interesting. Yeah, I try really hard. And I think there's a I know there's a responsive classroom book called The Power of Our Words. And it's been around for decades and it's really quite brilliant. And. There's this idea of labeling a behavior and not a person. So rather than saying you're being dishonest, you would say you're not able to tell the truth right now. Tell me why.

Rather than say manipulate, which is a character label, I would say you're really working around the rules rather than with them. And so the rules aren't working for you. How can I help? Rather than say lazy, which is a character trait, I would say unmotivated right now in this moment, you're not motivated, you're not feeling it. So that manipulative to me is something that you would potentially label an adult who's in a pretty minority percentage. I think there's very few people that I would say are actually characterologically manipulative. And no child could we ever know that about them yet. I think that's so right. Yeah. I think of manipulation as just a way to get a need met if you don't trust that you will get what you ask for. Right.

Right. And I think what's confusing to teachers in this specialness idea is an example of it. It's very confusing to teachers when the dynamic that the child is bringing is not one that was born in their relationship with that student. So it's confusing. It's like this is not the relationship that I typically have with students. This is not something that I'm used to. And they keep approaching me in this way where they're demanding, they're trying to negotiate their. They're trying to steal a type of relationship that I don't usually offer. And it feels really uncomfortable and confusing because it's outside of the teacher's realm of how I typically interact. And so a lot of times when you and I are talking with teachers, we'll say, 'You probably didn't create the problem, but you have an opportunity to be part of the solution.' So you're not taking it personally and you just keep.

You have to be the stronger dance partner where you keep letting them know how you typically relate and that kind of no thank you to that. Let's try this instead. And understanding that if it met a need or if it was taught to them in important relationships in other places, they're going to keep trying it with you for quite a few repetitions before they are going to try your alternate way. Yes, I think that's right. So yeah. So if I am an educator and a kid is really trying to become special in my midst, right. I think they're probably likely to do things in a certain order. You can let me know if you think I'm on track. So first a kid might, um, there's like the, the word I want to use is kind of ingratiating, right?

Which is, which is like, a little bit like suck up-y for lack of a better word, right? So, a kid who's seeking specialness might first try for what I might call positive attention from me, the educator, but they might do it in a bit of a kind of ingratiating suck-uppy way that I might not know how to handle, right? If again, just you said, that's not the kind of relationship I usually have with students. Right. So I might not know what to do with those, you know, very overt kind of bids to be special to me. Yeah. I might not receive those super well, or I might just redirect them or kind of brush them off. Right. Not realizing what a rejection that is going to feel like to a kid who's tenderly seeking specialness.

At which point they may promptly begin going in the direction of negative attention. Right. Right. And so then they, you know, not consciously, but the communication really might be okay. If you're not going to spend more time with me than with the other kids, because we're having a great time. Now you're going to spend more time with me than the other kids. Cause I'm going to be a problem. Is that sort of the pattern that you're talking about? Yes. And I actually often see. That when a child is charming and super helpful and seems very enthusiastic, that even if the teacher in their spidey sense has like wonders if this is genuine or what this is about. I often see the teachers respond to it positively initially.

They're like, 'Thank you so much.' You're so helpful. That's so nice. It's great to see you too. My weekend was great. Thank you. Wow. I can't believe you thought to ask me about my weekend. And so all of that. And so I think their teachers are often wary, but responding outwardly positively. Then there comes a point which is sort of unpredictable where it feels like it crosses some kind of line. Like maybe I'm sitting in your chair or I'm picking up your phone or I'm there's just a little bit of a boundary cross where it's like, 'Wait. Why are you in my space? Or why are you, you know, why are you showing up at my lunch?' Or why are you doing these things?

And then there's some boundary reset around, you need to give me my phone back, please go back to your seat, something like that, all of which looks very subtle. But that's the rejection, which is very hard to, to notice whether it's a five-year-old or a 15-year-old; it's very hard to see outwardly the depth of that rejection of what that would feel like, because the teacher doesn't understand that they were fulfilling a need to be special; they thought this is a charming student who's a little bit unboundaried and I'm just reminding them of the boundaries and there are students who do that and it's it's not it's not about being special; it's just about being

maybe a little impulsive and the boundary reset works fine but then there's kids and it's hard to see where it was actually about a deeper need to be special and then that boundary set is a rejection because those are the rules for the other students, not for me; I'm special to you and so it feels deeply rejecting and then there's a shift and then things start to really the wheels come off and then I get pulled in how it started great. And now we're in a train wreck and they won't, they're refusing to come to the class or they're always dysregulated when they're, you know, in that room or, you know, what, you know, kind of what's going on.

And that's where we need to sort of shift back to it there are times where it's okay in a boundary clear plan to let them have something that makes them feel special so they get a dose that's very clear and safe because it's like a very teachery thing to do is to have like a journal with a student yes um is like it it's like there's a there's some kind of Every day you're going to get a dose of this specialness with me, but it's going to be highly predictable to both of us. It's going to be a routine that we both feel comfortable with. It's consistent with my role in your life and your role in my life. And it does tend to shift the noise that happens when you're then.

trying trying to get that in a different way, yep okay so if I'm a listener, right trying to figure out if this is going to be applicable for me and a student that I am working with, I really like how you said that, yeah that's kind of the calling card of this; it started out great and then it went off the rails, yeah, right because you know many things can go off the rails with a student over the course of several months of school but rarely would we say 'It started out great though, right? Unless we're dealing with this particular kind of flip that really is related to, you know, in shrinky words, we might call it like, and I'm not calling any child a narcissist.

And there's a shrinky word for this, which is narcissistic injury, right? Which is that if we have a more childlike or more visceral need. for, you know, witnessing, or I think the hard thing about the teacher role is that it's honestly a bit of an unmet parenting need, right? If we’re sort of co-opting an adult who’s not our parent into that kind of primary attachment role for a little while, then the possibility for injury on a really deep psychological level, which can then result in big behaviors is high. Right. And I just think that the teacher is not going to solve that, but it's how is the teacher going to navigate that relationship? That is the relationship that the child is available for, is one in which they have a regular dose of being special because that’s what’s grounding.

It’s just like if they didn’t have food at home, we would make sure they had food at school. I love that analogy. Is a basic need. And so we’re going to give that to them in a way that we wouldn’t need to give that to other students. And I also think that, you know, there are times in childhood where you are especially self-centered and it's not, again, it's not who you are characterologically, it's the developmental stage that you're in. So like. Toddlerhood, you're completely about yourself and this moment, and what you want. And we're sort of designed as adults to kind of expect and and honor that. And we try to say, 'You know it looks like you want you know the the red mittens instead of the blue mittens.' Let's make sure you get the red mittens because it's important that your hands are warm.

So we just go with that. But then when kids get older, it gets confusing to us, because it's actually typical development by like not like nine or ten-you're incredibly empathic and other-oriented, and in this really nice place around like um love being helpful, love caring. Nine and ten year olds love being with babies and younger kids. And then the storm of adolescence hits at some point around 11, 12, 13, and you go back into this incredibly self-oriented developmental phase. So it's very confusing-it's like, 'Why are you being so selfish?' Yes! And but parents will say to us all the time, 'I can leave my 10-year-old home alone while I go grocery shopping.' But I cannot leave my 13-year-old. They have to come with me. How does that make sense?

And I could leave this 10-year-old home alone when they were 10, but not now when they're 13. And part of it also is like, let them be self-centered. I also say, let them be special and let them be self-centered because all of us, when we're stressed or when we're in the midst of some big developmental, like first, we're all pretty self-oriented. Like if anybody who's listening has ever gotten married or who has ever moved or who has ever had like gone to go to college or or graduate school started a new job, at any of those times in your life, all you could probably talk about with everyone that talked to you was that thing in your life. And you were probably a little bit annoying to everybody because that's all that you were talking about.

But that's just, you get very, you pull in wisely. When you're doing some big new thing to focus on it and make sure you are on top of it. And then when you're through that transition, it's like, oh, now I'm like available to notice that like other people have lives too. And it's just fine. We don't really need to label that as who someone is. It's just like, oh, you're stressed and taking on something big. So you're really just about yourself right now. And that's okay. I can point out to you like what is going on around you if you're not noticing. That's not a big deal. That makes a lot of sense, right? So it's like, let's not pathologize a level of even, you know, selfishness, right?

Because that is in some ways a developmentally appropriate response to stress. And it's also a developmentally appropriate response to being either a toddler or a teen. You know, I love the Dan Siegel's book 'Brainstorm' about the teenage brain; it's so awesome. Right. But like, I love the idea that like synaptic pruning happens, so that we actually do have less brain in certain ways at 13 or 14 than we do at 10, because the brain's got to like. Cut some things out so that it can have a big burst of like new adulty things. But there's a tricky middle there where we're functioning similar to toddlers when we're teens. I'm also hearing you like, you know, when I was doing a lot of behavior planning in schools, we would think a lot.

And still, when I do, when I consult with teens, you know, we kind of work to think a lot about the function of behavior. And then we try to figure out a way to, I always think of it as like just coming around the front so that we can almost preemptively surprise the kid with whatever they were looking for before they even need to like try to use their not-so-great coping strategies to like get it right. So if, you know, so if an educator isn't one of those spots where like it started out great, but now it's really off the rails and we can diagnose that as sort of a kid seeking more specialness. I think what you're saying is let's help the educator maintain their sanity and honestly, their sense of not being manipulated, right?

Because whether or not kids really are manipulative, it still feels really crappy to feel like you're being manipulated, right? And so it sounds like we're saying, yeah, now that we know that specialness is the thing, let's proactively decide one to three ways that. We are okay with offering that kid's specialness. And then I would say, once we get that, let's try to offer it before it's asked for. Oh yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. And I think it's like, like once we've understood what's going on, like, oh, this person is self-oriented because they're stressed. It still doesn't excuse complete disrespect. Not being accountable for your impact. So we, it explains it, but it doesn't excuse it. But then you always want it to offer an alternative way to get the need met.

So what did you need? And, and how did you get the need met? And did that work for you and others? And so it's like three questions. What did you need? Did that meet your need? Did it work for others? And it's got to be yes, yes, yes. And if so, it's a go. If it's yes, yes, no. It worked for, this is what I needed, yes. And it got my need met, yes. But it didn't work for others, no. Then it's like a no-go and you got to keep going. So it's like, I could imagine with like a high school teacher, it might be like emailing the student and saying, I would like to check in with you during, you know, for 10 minutes, you know, at this time once a week.

Could we have that time so that we can talk together about what? might work better and what's going on. So I'm going to set aside this 10-15 minutes a week. I checked your schedule and it looks like it's a time that you're available. So hopefully you'll come and meet me then. And so what I have done is thought about you when you weren't in front of me. I've taken the time to look at your schedule and see a plan that might work for you and me. And then I've created an opportunity where I would focus just on you, but it's 10-15 minutes a week. You know, and so then you have that scheduled and they don't come and then you send another email. I wish I thought about you for 15 minutes because that's our time.

Yeah. If the time doesn't work for you, please let me know. But you didn't come. So hopefully you'll come next time. And/ or I could see it with like, you know, a middle school teacher, you know, saying 'I have, I have a job that I need help with.' And I know that you're really artistic, or I know that you're really like good at like leadership. And so I was going to try a new game at advisory. You love to play. Can you help me come up with advisory games for every Friday? Cause I want to make sure we're doing a game. So I have a book. Do you want to spend some time looking at that with me? So you're not saying it looks like you need to be special.

So I'm going to create a plan for you to be special. That definitely, I'm pretty, I'm pretty transparent and direct with kids, but in this case, I would just invite them in. And then I would keep going even when they now reject it because it maybe caught them off guard or they're not really sure what's going on. And just persist with what you're doing and see if they won't come to the table. Yep. And then with younger kids, right? So the example of like maybe being the only one to fill your water, right? Maybe you would approach that kid and just be like, could you be interested in, you know, having this job. Right. Or, you know, I like framing things as like special jobs throughout the age range, but that seems to work especially well up through like fifth grade.

Right. And like, I think playing to a genuine strength, like student is sort of bossy. You could be like, well, you're really good at leading a group. Yes. So would you help? me pick and teach a game you know and so you you play to a genuine strength and and then you just invite them in and i think it'll perk their curiosity but they might not trust it at first because they might have been at a hard spot with you or they might not trust such a genuine direct invitation for that um and this sort of connects with like i think a myth about a quote-unquote trauma-informed school is one in which the teachers are willing to be everything to everyone. And that is actually the opposite.

Like all the students, especially students that have very confusing relationships with adults in other times and places in their life that might have included trauma or adversity, especially those students need. very clear boundaries and people to be very clear in their roles. And that doesn't mean that I'm only going to do what's in my job description, but it does mean that when I go outside of my job description, I'm going to get a second opinion from a trusted colleague to say, 'I'm thinking about doing this with this student. What do you think? Because our impulse is often to try to to fill the unmet needs, and so we want to have an accountability partner and make sure that we're not being impulsive.

If the second-grade teacher is everything to a child, and then the third-grade teacher is a third-grade teacher to them, then the third-grade teacher is really disappointing, and it's really confusing. And I've seen lovely people give so much of themselves that they then have to go and do a different profession. Me too. After too short of a time. So yeah, so kind of designing the way in which they will be special also helps you be clear with boundaries. Yep. Yes. And sort of deciding what's going to work for you and then enthusiastically offering that. Right. Right. Rather than waiting for a demand that may not work for you. Right. And I will say like most teachers that I've talked with are like, they're a little bit confused by the idea, but totally willing to try it because it's really not a lot of, it's not a big ask.

Yes. Compared to some things that we do ask. Yes. Not a big ask. And the pretty consistent feedback is that it was more effective than they thought. That's awesome. Yeah. Now, in general, right? I love the idea of, you know, well, this is what they need. So this is the plan for them there. And most of the time, I think there aren't 6 million kids in one class who all need this. However, and I also do think that if a child genuinely isn't having this unmet specialness need, they will kind of get it. So that the kids who are not needing this typically will be able to tolerate, you know, the kid who gets to sit in the chair, gets to refill the water. They'll sort of know like, yeah, that makes sense.

That person's getting something out of this that I wouldn't even necessarily really want in my relationship. Kids say really well that fair is not equal. Yeah, they totally get it. And also, right, in this landscape where we know, you know. Post-COVID, whatever it is, right. That there's a lot of mental health needs and a lot of kids are vulnerable. How often, if ever, have you seen it that several kids in one class are looking to be special? And then if so, how do we balance that? Yeah, I think you, I think it's, I think it's often the case now more often than not. Unfortunately, I hear, I think one of the most common questions that I get asked in professional development is what if it's not one kid, what if it's five in my class?

And, and I think that you as a school team, you know, you meet and you look at those students and you say, okay, this student is meeting with the school counselor for a lunch bunch twice a week. This student is working with, you know, a school-based clinician. And having some time with them. This student is getting adaptive PE and OT, PT time. This student has nothing, none of those services for whatever reason. So maybe that's a classroom teacher plan. Maybe they're not, you know, on sort of a plan, and then it's a classroom teacher plan that's less formal. I like that. Yeah, I think it's like as a community, we're meeting those needs, but it's not necessarily always the classroom teacher.

So kind of identifying who probably are those multiple kids in a class who are trying to meet an unmet developmental need of being special to an adult at school. And then almost sort of surveying the whole team, right. And being like, can we almost match each kid with a safe adult? So no one adult needs to be doing everybody's specialness protocol. Yes. And kids who have fragile attachment capacity really can't negotiate multiple intimate adult relationships at once. So, actually on purpose, I often say pick one or two adults that are really looking for a more in-depth relationship where they would talk about the weekend and how are you really and what's going on. And all the other adults are actually intentionally more superficial. So I think it's really clear.

And then once they get relationships established with those two people, you might start building from there. Now we're going to add one more person who might be somebody who can ask you know kind of more in-depth questions or process with them when they struggle. I also think there are kids who have a radar for specialness so it's like, oh wait, Miss Gillian has a picture journal plan with so-and-so, I'm going to get one of those! And you have a sense like your need is met differently, or Or really, you don't need this. You're just hyper-aware of like what everybody's getting. Yes. So most kids I think are pretty good about like fair isn't equal. But then there's those kids who have like a radar for it.

And I honestly believe that all the teacher has to do is feel confident, be confident in their response. That is my plan with so-and-so. That's my job to worry about. Your job right now is to be picking up and lining up. And if you look like you know what you're doing and you're confident in it, they're going to be like, oh, it must be okay. But if you stammer a little bit, you're like, oh, I don't know, maybe I should give one to everyone. Like, ooh, something's going on here. Yes. That might be not okay or I might be able to get something out of this. And so you just have to be clear about it's a plan that's been well thought through and that's my job. Yes.

It's a plan that's been well thought through and that's my job. Yep. Yeah. And I don't need to give any other information from, you know, than that. Yeah. I also just wanted to highlight from a shrinky perspective to how important being thought about is. You'd mentioned that a few times, right? And it's, yeah, that's something called being held in mind. Right. It's incredibly developmentally important. Like I remember when I was working in a therapeutic preschool, we needed to do like goodbye books for the kids, which because it was the dark ages, we would make them by hand. We would like take and develop photos, cut them out, and then like collage them into a, you know, a construction paper book and laminate it. But I remember, you know, we were sort of, we could.

We could be creative with these books, of course, to speak to each particular child. But there were certain themes, kind of like a social story, right, that we needed to hit. And I remember, you know, I was working with three or four kids in this one preschool. So I made several of these books. And I remember like in each kid's book, there was a part that was a me and then a thought bubble and a picture of them in it. And, and that that was very, very important to communicate in these goodbye books that they will still be remembered and thought about by the important adult. Right. And, and I think that, you know, preschoolers in a therapeutic setting need that, but so do, you know, if a person is having a specialness thing, there is a part of them active that is also effectively a preschooler in a therapeutic setting.

Right. And so that, that holding in mind piece is so key. And we have some really incredible parents and caregivers that we're partnering with as a school who are trying so hard, but they are so overwhelmed with things like poverty, being unhoused, domestic violence, addiction, substance use disorder, whatever it might be, that they actually are barely keeping up. And the child might be noticing you're not really anticipating or thinking about what I'm going to need before I need it. And so that feels a little bit scary, even though that parent is doing everything they can to tread water and keep everything kind of going. And so when your need for being special isn't met outside of school, I say that with no judgment for whatever might be going on where that's the case.

And we're not going to solve that problem, but we can have that regular dosing of that. What you just said is so important. Like I learned that from a girl that I worked with probably now 15 years ago where I brought a snack to a therapeutic group. I always brought the snack. They had all kinds. Parameters on snack and what they liked and what they didn't like and they had trained me over the weeks that we did this group about like what their brand of lemonade was and what they did and didn't like and so I I always had to buy a snack that was very carefully chosen. I left my office one day to go to where we did the group and I forgot the snack in my office in my drawer, I was late yeah.

So on the way to the group, I had to run into like a market and grab a snack. And I didn't have the time to think. So I was really proud of myself because I got to the group barely on time with snack, even though this all had happened. I put the snack down. It was the lemonade that they liked, Paul Newman's lemonade. And I grabbed trail mix. And I didn't remember in my haste that. Food being mixed was a specific aversion to one of the group members. And I didn’t know that about like a casserole was her nightmare. Oh yeah, like I needed a plate with like the dividers. And I knew that. And I bought trail mix, which is exactly not. And usually when they came to group after school, they were hungry.

So now I’ve brought the wrong thing and they’re hungry. And so this young person did not speak to me for two months. And so finally I met with this young person, just the two of us. And I said, you have to help me. I don’t understand. I didn’t track that it was the trail mix. I didn't, I didn't, I knew there was a shift and I didn't know what happened. I said, you have to help me out. I want to repair this, but I literally am racking my brain and I cannot figure out what happened. And she said, it's as if I don't exist for you unless I'm in front of you.

Oh wow, that's so real and that was really deep; a thread into her life story um and I will never forget that lesson from her is that you have to make people know with your actions that they existed for you when they weren't in front of you. Like the kids that are vulnerable in this way, you see a joke that you think that person would find funny, take a picture of it and show it to them. I saw this and I thought of you. Those little things are so reassuring that like our relationship is real. I exist for you when I'm not in front of you. Think of me when I'm not here. And teachers will be like, 'you gotta be kidding me.' I do so much work to prepare for them.

Yes, I'm thinking about them every second. But like, you gotta prove it in ways that are actually a little bit different. More salient to them. And it's not a lot of time. A little goes a long way. Taking the picture of a greeting card that they would find funny or whatever. You know, it, I think it just... I'll just never forget that lesson from, from her. It was really powerful. That is really, yeah. I think that's the best place to end for today. That's the best way to teach that lesson, the way she did. Yep. So let them be special. Let them be special. Thanks, Joelle. Thanks, listeners. And it's time. Yeah. See everybody next time.