AK Podcast
Join us as part of AK Podcast, brought to you by Agri-King, an advanced livestock nutrition company, as we journey through the world of agriculture and livestock nutrition. Our podcast will dive into the latest technology and insights, foster curiosity, and help to build connections within the ag industry to help grow the passion for agriculture.
AK Podcast
Component Efficiency (Part 2)
In this episode of the AK Podcast, Mike Donaldson is again with Don Sanders to discuss the critical aspects of improving component efficiency in dairy farming. They explore the importance of cow comfort, forage quality, and genetics, emphasizing how these factors contribute to better milk production and profitability. The conversation also delves into the significance of soil health and the role of enzymes in enhancing digestion. Listeners will learn how to calculate component efficiency and identify common challenges faced by dairy farmers. The episode concludes with actionable advice for improving efficiency and the importance of teamwork in achieving success in dairy management.
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Chris Radke (00:06)
Hello and welcome to the AK Podcast where we explore science and nutrition behind livestock care and management with the best and the brightest in the business. I'm your host Chris Radke, part of the sales team here at Agri-King.
if you're listening for the first time, this is a part two. So if you want to catch up, you could listen to the first one or if you want to just jump into the story, we're here again. I'm with today and usual Mr. Mike Donaldson, who is a Director of Field Service and a Member of Sales Management Team. Hey Mike.
How you doing
Mike Donaldson (00:36)
Very, very well. Excited to get going with this part too, Chris.
Chris Radke (00:40)
Yeah, yeah, as am I. All right, you wanna introduce Don again?
Mike Donaldson (00:44)
Once again joined by my fellow member of the sales management team at Agri-King, Don Sanders. Part one, we talked about why all farm component efficiency is an increasingly important thing. This is maybe the more fun of the two parts, because we're gonna talk a little bit about how. It's one thing to know you want this, sometimes what's more important is knowing how to get it. So Don, take us through a...
take us through some aspects that need to get covered to improve this on farms.
Don Sanders (01:20)
want to give people tips today how to increase their component efficiency and there's lots of ways to do that. I just want to back up a little bit so I do want to encourage you to look at part one and then I'm not going to go through why I put all this stuff together for over 40 years and watch people
but check out part one. But we're going to move to component efficiency and how you can move that.
with your herd of cows. There are three basic ways that you can do things with and then we'll get into other little things as we go on down this track. The first thing is cow comfort. If she is not comfortable, she's not gonna give her the best shot to you. So you can do that. You can look at all kinds of aspects of heat abatement and air quality and flow and...
beds and stalls and on and on and on as far as cow comfort but that is one of the keys that helps component efficiency. The other one is forage quality of course. The higher quality forages the more energy will be in there the more energy in a usable farm for the cow she will actually eat less and give the same or more because the calories are there to do it.
If don't have the calories in your forages, you're going to have to supply them from other products or byproducts. That cow can take a lot of byproducts. This is the real reason that cows are so special, that they can take things that humans can't get value out of, put it through that rumen, and make milk. And milk can go in the cheese and the yogurt and fluid and
We take that in as humans and look what we can do with that. So that's why the
is the Magnificent Milk Making Machine. And
process that milk into different things to help us live our lives and be healthy. And the final third thing is the genetics that you have. And whether you have genetics for higher components or whether you don't, and you be able to look at things that way.
and get help from the genetic side of whoever you're doing business with. And that's also another important piece of that. So it's like a three-legged milk stool. You've got to have the comfort. You've got to have the quality forages. And you've got to have the genetic base to produce those higher components in your milk.
Mike Donaldson (04:03)
Well, you, maybe this going back a little bit, but I'm assuming somebody didn't bother to listen to part one, because they're excited to hear how to do it. What was the thing that tripped the switch in your mind on to seeing how this is a valuable metric and something that farms need to be more aware of? When was your light bulb moment?
Don Sanders (04:28)
was probably a few years ago when we started being paid by that fat and protein more per point than we ever were before. I said this in part one, but I got to re-say it again because this is real important part. Today you will get paid more for one-tenth of a pound of fat increase than you will for one pound more milk. You will concentrate that milk and you'll pay per hundred for that milk.
be leaving your dairy, so you're paying less hauling to carry more fat and protein away from your dairy. That's a win-win-win. So the how part of that is, I'm going to go straight back to forage quality, and I've watched forage quality for years get better and better, and combinations. Used to be growing up in a haylage high-moisture corn deal.
in the 60s to 70s then we switched our more to more corn silage today we're probably more corn silage base because it's I'm gonna say I'm gonna say this it's not easier but it's more uniform and is that way on large scale and then we're either putting haylage and or there's a big switch to small grains least in my area and I know that's not across everywhere but
Growing up in Pennsylvania and also living 15 years in Wisconsin, I saw a lot of different ways to do it. I also served dairies in North Carolina for a few number of years and that, they feed cows somewhat differently there too. But the bottom line is cow is a cow. She's gonna eat some forage to get that rumen mat to work correctly. You gotta have quality forage and digestible NDF. Digestible NDF is what is going to fuel that cow to increase higher components.
If you don't have digestible NDF, it won't happen. It can happen, but it won't be as easy that way. And that all starts for fertility. I know you, I'm not an agronomist, but I've watched soil over the years.
one of the... Okay.
Mike Donaldson (06:38)
You know, Don, I'm maybe gonna call you out on that because
worked with you long enough and I've seen you say that you're not an agronomist, but, and then I watch you teach and make observations that very few agronomists are sharp enough to make. So you may not be able to hide behind that I'm not an
line.
Don Sanders (07:00)
Maybe not, but what
am is I look at forage samples for 40 some years and identified what is important at forage to make the cow work. And it all starts in the field. And again, you cannot change soil structure in a few years. It takes a lot of time and a lot of understanding of what it takes for the roots to satisfy the rumen needs. And I gotta say again, one of that...
aspects of that is sulfur, which we neglected for too many years because sulfur used to be free. It's called acid rain. It doesn't do that anymore because we cleaned it up. We took the sulfur out of the diesel fuel. It's clean. We have clean air. But that means you have to put sulfur, NPKS. They're all more important than they ever were before. The right ratios, the right time, the right application. And I've simplified this. I'm going to make a state
Two statements now, if you do not have sulfur at .1 in your corn silage, you don't have enough in your ground. And if your sulfur is not at .25 or higher in haylage and or small grains, again, you're short. But you got to remember sulfur leaches. So the more it rains, the more sulfur you need to apply. The higher the yield, the more sulfur you need to apply. And there's different types of sulfur.
So I'm gonna say any more about that because it can be different in different areas in the US.
But
Mike Donaldson (08:31)
That's fair.
Don Sanders (08:32)
get your agronomist on board and get samples and forage samples, tissue samples, and just get on the learning curve of that. That will help you. I gotta say a little bit more and I said I wasn't going to, but if you don't have enough sulfur.
You will not get methionine, which is building block of protein and amino acid. The plant can grow them. But if it's sulfur not adequate, they can't do it. So that's my long, short sermon on sulfur. But
Mike Donaldson (09:05)
you.
Don Sanders (09:05)
that goes into quality forages, of course. The maturity makes a big difference. So if you make it young, you'll have NDF digestibility increase. But if you make it too young,
You won't have enough digest, you can overdo it not very often, but it can happen. That you don't have enough fiber in your rumen to make that work. So as people get more schooled in this, they are getting better and better and better at eating quality forages on time and getting into the structure and fermentation. And Silo-King is a product that will help you increase NDF digestibility. It will also increase the...
or decrease the shrink you have because we're going to control the heat. So building block number one that we can help you with is fermenting your forages correctly and having your calories there and not burn up in the fermentation process. Because the first thing that burns is sugar. The second thing that happens is fiber becomes more concentrated. We don't want that. We want digestible fiber, not lignin fiber.
Then we of course, Agri-King can help lots of ways. We have a good supply of different enzyme products that can attack starch or attack other fiber portions of your diet. And we have seen an increase of four to five percent of NDF digestibility from forage by using our enzyme system. We just don't come out there and just say this is what you need. We have to first find out what you need.
do a lot of lab testing and understand how you're feeding your cows and get there. It's not something you just jump in and go. We've got to understand where you are and where you want to go before we're going to plot the course to go there. It's just a lot of backup for us in Agri-King, a great team effort. It's not just single people. That's what separates us out.
And the component of the efficiency thing really became very important when they paid us more. And I said this again, I keep repeating that. But it can make a 40 cent difference in your per cal per day income over fee cost real quickly if you do these things right. And if it doesn't, there's ways that we can help you get there if you want to go there.
It's a matter of matching the carbohydrate to the fiber in that rumen and to make sure it works all the time. If you look at your butter fat and your protein and the milk pounds produced, you can almost look at your cow and understand the body condition and all that stuff is happening that you can really start to dial in your nutrition program to meet those needs.
Mike Donaldson (12:07)
When you start a new client, and this is one of the things that they
to focus on, they want to see an improvement in component efficiency, I kind of want to circle. I think he said something really important that I want to go back and underline again, that there's not just one way that this gets done. And it has to start with that individual farm and the
their strengths and their opportunities. Is there a common area of opportunity that you do see a little more frequently than maybe something else? You talked about that three-legged stool.
I'm not trying to take the shortcut that this is what everyone needs to do, but is there one of those areas or one aspect of a ration that you're seeing in the world you work in, which could be different other places, that's more common?
Don Sanders (13:15)
You have to take care of the housing first and all that stuff. That's cow comfort. You gotta do that first. She can't maximize her efforts unless you do in that respect. And then we already talked about the soil conditions and the forage quality and IVDMD, which is in vitro dry matter digestibility. And some of you are familiar with that, some are not. But if you get that in the 75 or 80% range, simply put, if your forage IVDMD is at 80%, that means the cow will have an opportunity
to use 80% of it and 20% will be in the manure pit. If your forage quality is say 70% you just lost 10 % of opportunity for that cow to have because the other 10% now we're up to 30% that's in manure pit not in the cow to be utilized. That's what happens when you have too much lignin that can't be broken down only by one species in this world. Mike do you know what the species is that can take care of lignin?
Mike Donaldson (14:14)
I'm gonna go with termites. Okay, I've got one. No, no, don't taste, and they don't taste very good to my knowledge that we're gonna start eating them.
Don Sanders (14:16)
You got it. But they don't give much milk. They don't give much. And they don't give much butterfat either.
So yeah, that's kind of a loaded question, but you gave the correct answer. Fiber digestibility, and I've said it so many times, but that starts right there. And you can have that conversation with your agronomist or your seed supplier.
Mike Donaldson (14:34)
You
Don Sanders (14:45)
debate on BMR corns or BMR lookalike corns and you have to visit with people in your area that are doing it. I thought a long time ago that that is by the way one of the holy grails of feeding cows is knowing which variety works for you.
Mike Donaldson (14:49)
Okay.
Don Sanders (15:04)
I used to recommend them, I don't anymore because they change so fast. once you find one and then a few years is it, no we don't have that one anymore. So, they have to make some changes, but they've done a really good job of genetics and what's available to
Mike Donaldson (15:21)
We've mentioned it individually, but give us the...
the short and sweet, what is the equation, how does a farm figure out what their component efficiency is?
Don Sanders (15:42)
your pounds of milk times the percent of fat. I'm going to make it real easy. 80 pounds of milk times 4% fat is 3.2 pounds. You got that number Mike? 3.2. Okay. And now for 80 pounds of milk and we're 3-0 protein. Okay, you take your 80 times 0.3, that's 2.4. So you had 3.2 plus 2.4 is? Okay.
Mike Donaldson (15:55)
Yep.
Okay?
6.6
Don Sanders (16:12)
Keep remembering that, OK? Now, let's say there, I'm shooting from the hip. So I don't know what the answer we're going to get from component efficiency. Say those cows are eating 55 pounds. So if you got, what was we at, 6.6? Yep.
Mike Donaldson (16:13)
Yep.
Yep.
Don Sanders (16:29)
You get your calculator out and divide it by 55. And then you get a percent of component efficiency.
Mike Donaldson (16:35)
and that would be 12.12 or 12 percent. Okay.
Don Sanders (16:39)
which is very good. So I
just brought them out of the air. But see, what you really gotta remember now of that dry amount of that cow eat, 55 pounds, 12% is gonna be available for the fat and protein. Sailable stuff that humans can get. Now, if you're gonna compare that, and I don't know these numbers, but if you compare it to a chicken, we lost big time. They wanna be really a lot higher then that.
Mike Donaldson (17:09)
Well, we're also, we're utilizing things that a chicken would only walk on to do that.
Don Sanders (17:16)
Yeah, that's correct.
see that's the grooming advantage right there. Yep, we're going to take feed that other animals can't use and we can.
But that's how the down and dirty of component efficiency is. And then if you add maybe a pound of less dry matter to get there, and right now that's between 16 and 18 cents depending where you are. So if you're moving your 12%, if you get 12 and most people aren't there yet, but you could be at 11 and move that by 1% and you would reduce the dry matter intake, but some people think I'm an oxymoron, but uh-uh, no, it can be done.
It just can be. not going to say, I could say some things about some of my clients, but I'm not. I'm just going to say, I'm experiencing it. They are. So it can be done. And the income over fee cost is definitely.
It's money worthwhile chasing. And some people are going to listen to this and say, yeah, but then you have to go buy this and go buy that. Maybe. And I'm talking about amino acids and bypass fats. And there's appropriate time for those things to mix in your diet to make the maximum use of it. But the first thing is make sure you get the forage right.
Mike Donaldson (18:43)
Well, and it doesn't take away, like you said, there's multiple variables here. It doesn't diminish. We're not saying it's a horrible thing to not only go from 4% fat to 4.3, but maybe go from 80 to 85 pounds of milk. I mean, you can win on multiple fronts in this. And then you've got a multiplier on top of a multiplier. In your work,
Don Sanders (19:06)
you can.
Mike Donaldson (19:13)
Where your, the Olympics were last year, but where's your bronze, silver, and gold level of component efficiency?
Don Sanders (19:21)
12% or
more is gold or really well, excellent. 11 to 12 would be the silver category in which is good, it really is. And then 10 and a half to 11 would be the bronze category of saying it's okay, but there's room for improvement.
Mike Donaldson (19:39)
and
Don Sanders (19:40)
One thing I've got to bring up, just because you did the one on water, if you have bad water, you're not going to.
It's going to be a tough time getting increasing component efficiency.
Mike Donaldson (19:53)
What, now I'm curious, and I already know you won't give a name, I would never ask you to, what are some of the lowest component efficiencies you have helped some of our people work with or run into yourself?
Don Sanders (20:07)
some at 9
Mike Donaldson (20:09)
Okay.
Don Sanders (20:14)
just because you don't have the energy level in the forages to get started right. It's almost like you need some kind of kindling to start it. So I used to use this as a way to get across what lignin can and can't do. So if you want to burn wood in a wood fire fireplace and or stove, if you want the best wood, you want hardwood, so you'd be an oak.
Mike Donaldson (20:20)
Okay.
Don Sanders (20:43)
and that's going to give you heat and last longer. But if you want a quick deal, that's pine or some soft wood. But it burns up quick. But that's the difference between oak is highly lignified, pine is not. Broken down easier. So the rumen's almost like a furnace, but it's not. I'm not saying that. I'm just using these woods as an example of you need some lignin, but you don't need more than enough.
Mike Donaldson (20:49)
Okay.
So kind of what you're talking about, and this is just sound advice, I guess, go back to when you and I were kids, We're trying to get what we used to see turning cows on to flush spring pasture.
Don Sanders (21:29)
Yeah.
Mike Donaldson (21:29)
12 months a year out of stored feed. It happened. There was a big glut of milk because cows finally got good feed for the first time in months. And then by June it dried up and went away and we were back to what we always did. We're trying to give them that quality of forage every day of the year.
That is...
Don Sanders (21:54)
Pasture's good feed as long as you manage it correctly.
Mike Donaldson (21:57)
Sure, Well that is very, very interesting. I'm kind of excited by the difference this can make on farms. Any closing thoughts on component efficiency, Don? Some advice you'd give somebody? What would you say?
Don Sanders (22:14)
say that the Agri-King team is ready to help you go where you want to go and we will be more than willing to show you and sit down with you and try to lay out a track for your success and we would do that as a team effort to help you. Again, we're in this business to help the client and the cowl all at the same time.
Mike Donaldson (22:40)
Well, thank you, sir. Chris, well... You're welcome. Chris, what'd you learn today?
Don Sanders (22:42)
Hey, I thank you for this time, both Mike and Chris.
Chris Radke (22:46)
Yeah, yeah.
Hey, actually what I learned was part of Don's three-legged stool, and it's something I've heard him say before, is that one of the legs is that you want boring cows. And I remember him saying that. I just remember thinking of a cow just like sleeping on a pillow. But that's what you want. The most comfortable cow is going to produce the most product, milk, and proteins and whatnots. Yeah.
Don Sanders (22:57)
Yes.
Don't change her. She doesn't like
it.
Chris Radke (23:11)
I remember
you saying that, I was like, that totally makes sense. If I'm lazy, I'm gonna, you know, do things the way I want them, so. All right, if you like you heard, hit us up on any of our socials. If you have any questions or thoughts that you'd like us to talk about, you can email us at podcast@agriking.com. All right, thank you so much, Don. Thank you so much, Mike, and have a great day.
Mike Donaldson (23:36)
you guys, thank you Don.
Don Sanders (23:36)
Thank you everyone.
