Bovine Replete with Dr. Mat Faulkner

In this episode, Mike Donaldson talks with Mat Faulkner about the challenges heat stress creates for dairy operations.

Dr. Faulkner discusses how rising temperatures affect cow health, feed intake, milk production, and overall performance. The conversation covers practical management strategies and nutritional tools, including Agri-King's Replete, that can help producers minimize heat stress and maintain productivity throughout the summer months.

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Transcript

[01:30] Chris Radke  Hello and welcome to AK Podcast, where we explore science and nutrition behind livestock care and management with the best and the brightest in the business. I'm your host, Chris Radke, part of the Sales Department here at Agri-King. And with me today is the Director of Field Services and a member of the Sales Management Team, Mr. Mike Downson. Hey Mike, how you doing, buddy?

[03:00] Mike Donaldson  Outstanding Chris, how's everything in your world going?

[04:30] Chris Radke  it's it's wonderful. It's a great it's a summerie day So Mike, who do we have with us and what do we talk about today?

[06:00] Mike Donaldson  Ha ha  But we don't usually want to put a timestamp on these because a lot of what we talk about is either constant in nature or not really driven by the time of year. But today's topic is driven by the time of year. As we record this, it's the last half of June, summer of twenty twenty-six, and we've already had instances where we've got extreme heat conditions playing havoc with dairies across the United States.  ⁓ if we really had a lot of pull, we could try and do something about the temperature in general, and we can't do that. So we're left trying to take care of the things that we can do something about. In a previous episode with Dr. Marcus Kehrli we talked a little bit about some of the findings now ⁓ related to what stress and therefore heat stress do, even from a multi-generational standpoint. In that talk, we touched on some of the general management things that people can do.  To try and ⁓ combat heat stress. Today we're gonna go a little bit more on the nutrition side of that question and actually talk up one of Agri-King's products that is making a big difference on farms. So we're joined today by Dr. Mat Faulkner. Dr. Faulkner is a nutritionist with Agri-King. He feeds cows in both the Midwest and California. I am gonna let him give you as much of a ⁓ introduction to himself as he chooses to. So  Mat, you're up.

[07:30] Dr. Mat Faulkner  Well that sounds great. Thank you for the introduction. And and Mike, I'm only gonna correct one thing here. Like, yes, I I do have a PhD, but please

[09:00] Mike Donaldson  Hm.

[10:30] Dr. Mat Faulkner  Please drop the doctor thing. I worked under Dr. Bill Weiss, and I'll never forget before I was a PhD graduate, he told me that his name was Bill. And if a if a man of that stature and astuteness in the dairy industry can be referred to as Bill, I prefer to be Mat. Very simple. I'm a pretty simple guy, so I appreciate it, but please, Mat is better. So ⁓ I grew up in the dairy industry my whole entire life. My my parents farmed in the late 80s, early nineties, and ⁓ you know  And unfortunate times and ⁓ bad inflation times led to their departure from the dairy industry. But I was very fortunate to have a brother ⁓ who is seven years older than I that took over and he started working for a gentleman, took me along for the ride because I was a kid with nothing to do. And ⁓ so I worked with him all my whole entire life, and thankfully he bought a dairy in 2009. ⁓ my wife and my kids and I still own a lot of dairy animals with him, do a  Lot of showing for fun. In the midst of that, I realized that I was a pretty simple kid and I didn't own anything but sweat equity. ⁓ I took a little time. I went to school for a bit, and then I took about four years off to do some military service. And I came back and I realized when you treat ⁓ school like it's a job, it's not really that difficult. I had some great professors along the way that spotted talent that I didn't know was there. Dr. Paul Walker at Illinois State, when I came back to school after the military identified me as a student he wanted to work with.  With.  So I finished my bachelor's and I did a master's with him in ruminant nutrition. And then I was afforded the opportunity to work with Dr. Bill Weiss at the Ohio State University. I guess we're supposed to call it the Ohio State University, where I did a PhD in dairy nutrition specifying in vitamins and trace minerals, primarily trace minerals. I've been doing nutrition work for a little over 10 years now. I've been with Agri-King for about 14 months. ⁓  Fortunate. I've had a lot of great opportunities, a lot of great experiences both with people and producers. I feed dairy cattle across the Midwest in Illinois, Wisconsin, Iowa. I fed cattle in Texas and I currently feed cattle in California as well. I work with about 30,000 lactating dairy animals right now. And ⁓ yeah, just ⁓ just grinding and trying to make it work.

[12:00] Mike Donaldson  But you you bring up an interesting point and and I have always wanted to make the observation, ⁓ you know, from Pennsylvania, live in Michigan, the expanded Big Ten universe my whole life basically. And and it the the the the the degree to which the Ohio State University, the the the gets landed on so hard, I really wonder at times if there is N Ohio State University somewhere.  That somewhere I've I y you're you're far enough away I compose that and not have you at my door in two hours beating the hell out of me. So before we get into anything real specific, and and some of this might be old news for people, but could you give us a little bit of the background as to why otherwise you know it's it's it's 75, it's eighty degrees, it's summer, that's what I was looking for, this is beautiful.  And yet I've got a whole herd of holstings that are already starting to suffer. So what is the dynamic that is you know w what is heat stress in in dairy cattle really when does it start to be a problem? How's it impacting them?

[13:30] Dr. Mat Faulkner  Well so you know it's a unique thing and we actually here in the Midwest just went through our first bouty heat stress last week actually. So it you know, a lot of people think that like, okay, like it's pretty comfortable, you know, it's seventy degrees, life is great, but actually cows  really go through heat stress, it can be as low as sixty-four degrees Fahrenheit. Like there you read through all these extension articles and that and they talk about thermal heat index. So that not only factors in the temperature, it factors in the humidity, it factors in radiation and metabolics. And like I'd like you to think of a a cow, like especially a high producing dairy cow, those ones in your high groups that could be milking 150 to 200 pounds, they're eating anywhere between 70 and 80 pounds of dry matter intake and milking that much.  That is a high performance athlete. Every day doing it. And I'd probably put them right on that scale with maybe what you'd think like the best power lifters in the world are because they're doing it twice a day, three times a day. And so, like, I say power lifters more because like they're pretty pretty in tune for a heart attack when you're trying to eat all those calories and pump that much iron every day, all day. So, you know, like even when we think it's beautiful out, those cows with the the heat that they're  radiating from their metabolic energy is is on top of that and plus you factor in the humidity and that's kind and then they say radiation too which is where that thermal heat index comes into so this is why it can kick in as low as 64 degrees Fahrenheit. Most of these dairies you go to you know you talk about when sprinklers kick on you talk about when fans kick on these fans are kicking on between 64 and 68 degrees and that that thermal neutral zone of a dairy animal is why that is so in  And  then you also have to think about it. I I also try to keep things as simple as possible because I just don't know any better. So when when animals are going through a heat stress event, I like to think of them as a fresh cow, right? That fresh cow is going from making zero pounds a day to producing minimal amounts of clostrum or you know, just what you need for colostrum in the first couple of days, but within 14 days, you know, they could be milking anywhere from, you know, a young two-year-old 60 to 80 pounds, a mature cow, eighty to a hundred and twenty pounds.  and they're eating, you know, 48 to 54 pounds of dry matter intake, they're in a negative energy balance. They're starting to mobilize body, fat, and tissues to support that because they cannot support that from just what they're eating.  So when you get an animal in negative energy balance, that animal is starting to mobilize tissue and starting to oxidize different things. And then you introduce oxidative stress. So that's where I think that that cow that is now under heat stress, she's also going through metabolic oxidative stress because she's not eating as much as she's trying to produce, especially in the early onset of heat stress. Because a cow for a day or two of high temperatures, they can handle it. But by day,  Two and a half and three, they're starting to reduce the amount of dry matter intake that they think. And it's it's probably a biological mechanism because the less that I eat, that's the less metabolic energy that I'm exerting and trying to digest that fiber and that starch and different things. So, like it's it's almost like a biological savior, but she's still trying to ramp herself up. So you're introducing not only I have oxidative stress because now I'm mobilized.  Body tissues to support the production I'm trying to make or the other things that I'm trying to do. But we have the stress of these animals standing longer on their feet. And I mean, when you see heat stress, and I saw it last week, all these people that have cow manager SCR, the most indicative thing, like when you're looking at that, is the activity on those animals goes straight up and the eating and rumination time starts to go down. And the reason that is, is because they're just standing under the sprinklers or by the fans or whatever you have.  For any like adaptative heat stress for them, they're just standing there stressed. So, you know, it's a really interesting thing what's going on with the animal, not only from the standing stress from the lower dry matter intake to the mobilizing the tissue to just trying to survive. And when an animal goes in survival mode, the first thing that goes is your reproduction, right? If I'm trying to survive, I can't support anything else. And then the next thing that goes is your production. And again,  For twenty four to forty-eight hours, an animal can survive that. Or they can maintain that same amount of production. But then when things start to give, you get into that seventy-two hours and plus, you're gonna start seeing that ri reduction, especially in production, which is what most people notice first, dry matter intake, and then your reproduction performance for the next probably 30 days is gonna struggle because those oocytes that were made during that time of heat aren't going to be that strong as well.

[15:00] Mike Donaldson  Yeah, I think it's it's unfortunate. I mean, I'm really pleased that we have a decent listening audience, but I don't think that many non-farmers tune in. What you just outlined, Mat, is a perfect example. In modern animal agriculture, we do not push animals. We're not trying to get them to do something. We're trying to remove stress. We're trying to make their life easier. And somewhere along the line  The the general public started to view producers, nutritionists, vets as people that are ⁓ cruelly making animals do things when we're just trying to help them take care of themselves.

[16:30] Dr. Mat Faulkner  We've had such an advancement in the genetic potential of these animals. I mean, you just look where you know even component production for the Holstein animal was years ago. Everybody thought the colored breeds, you know, because of their performance on CFP was so great. Anymore. These Holsteins are matching it. And I'm I'm not using that as a comparison among breeds. I'm like, that's not what I'm trying to do. But just the genetic potential amongst all of these breeds. We keep pushing these animals further and further, and not because  Because like we are pushing them, it's because the animals' genetics have been better to push them and farmers have just gotten better about making more quality forages as well, to allowing them to reach the potential that those animals genetically have.

[18:00] Mike Donaldson  Before we get to the agri king specific topic that we do wanna touch on, what are a few of your kind of go to ⁓ boy it's gonna w know, it's late May, we're gonna s get into hot weather. What are some things you like to do in a ration or maybe even from a management standpoint ahead of the summer heat actually hitting?

[19:30] Dr. Mat Faulkner  So, you know, there's a there's a lot of different tactics, and I I've heard and I've read a lot of different things. Like, obviously, especially when we're going through heat stress events, that the animal is going to have reduced dry matter intake. We know that that is coming. So the lot of people are like, well, you we need to reduce we need to reduce starch in the ration, or we need to reduce that, or we need to reduce this. Well, I sometimes don't always agree with that. Like if you're really trying to push cows or you  just have a low forage ration, like maybe that's the case, you need to bring that starch and that protein down. But really you need to make every bite that that animal is gonna take the best for that animal. Right? So whether you know like that's a reduction in fiber, because actually fermenting fiber is more energetically inefficient to that animal than it's going to be to digest starch. But you don't want to get on that acidosis train. So it really becomes that balance of making sure that I have enough digestible forage  Highly digestible forage, maintaining my NDF, and still trying to maximize every bit of energy, whether that's increasing dietary fat. And I don't mean fat from corn oil or soybean oil, that's gonna be a highly unsaturated fat that's gonna crash our our butter fat. But I mean, and honestly, in current times, it's pretty rough because if you start looking at the Q3 bypass fat market and you start talking eighteen hundred dollars to twenty two hundred dollars.  A ton for fat, it's not like I can just bring in a Pulmet 80 or an energy booster and think that that's gonna be good. So sometimes it's trying to like convince your producer and great producers always know, like I'll spend a little bit of money up front, and maybe we do need to increase that dietary fat because it's gonna help with my reproduction, it's gonna help with my production, and it's gonna be better for the cow and the long-term investment.  But it's sometimes it it's economically inefficient. So I always try to condense the diet, make it as healthy as possible. I try to maximize some of those good quality forages that we have. You know, if I've got maybe some lower digestibility forages in there, say maybe just some straw or some dry hay that I'm I'm using to keep that good ruminat, I'll cut those back and maybe add a little bit of corn silage in its place. And just try to keep that animal ruminating, trying to make every bit of that bite.  Energetically inefficient. And then part of this on the back side of that is when they're going through oxidative stress, we know that they're going to be immune compromised. Also, when they're standing that much more and the sprinklers are running and they're standing in water because those sprink sprinklers are running down the cow alleys, laminitis becomes a thing. So you do have to wash that starch for that. But you know, something like biotin, making sure that I've got you know 20 milligrams of biotin in there to maintain.  that hoof elf and the characterization, making sure that my selenium, my vitamin E, and everything are maximized so I can help with that antioxidant stress and like the glutathione peroxidase and everything. Just trying to make that animal as efficient as possible in those times.

[21:00] Mike Donaldson  That's perfect. That's very helpful. One of the reasons I wanted to have Mat on the podcast today, he mentioned he came to Agri-King about fourteen months ago, already a very accomplished, very respected nutritionist across the country. And since he came to Agri-King, he's picked up a tool or two that are unique to us, one of those being a product we call Agri-King Bovine Replete.  And he kinda dipped his toe in the water a little last year, saw some very good results. I don't want to turn this into a shameless advertisement, but could you give us a little bit of background as to your experiences with the product and what you continue to see with it, please?

[22:30] Dr. Mat Faulkner  Yeah, so we we know when animals go through heat stress. I don't care if it's in the Midwest or if it's in the West Coast. Like when heat hits, you are going to have milk dips. There's going to be milk depression, dry matter intake repression. It doesn't matter. Like it's going to happen. But so I'm very fortunate that Agri-King to like when they have new customers come on and new employees come on for a thirty to sixty-day window, Replete is a product that you can test. And again, I'm not  A product salesman, never have been. I built my career on not being one. However, when a product fits and it it's advantageous and makes a monetary return to the producers, how can't you go wrong? So I was very fortunate. I came on, I believe, in April of 25. ⁓ I asked, Hey, can I can I push this off until summertime? And everybody agreed. ⁓ so I started my producers on some 60-day trials. I said, like, I want to know if these products worked, and what  What  I saw on the producers that joined onto this program were that early on milk dips were about the same, right? Like, you know, four four pounds in that first heat index, blah, blah, blah, whatever. ⁓ but like cows were recovering 24 to 48 hours, if not 72 to 96 quicker when we were feeding this Replete. And I had seen the formula, I kind of knew the basis from it. You know, we have some antioxidants that are proprietary.  To the company. You know, but there's a little additional vitamin E. There's a little bit of additional selenium, some of those other antioxidant cofactors in those enzymes that I was talking about. And I just kind of realized that, like, okay, well, the heat's gonna hit and we're gonna struggle. But if I can get those cows back quicker, if I can get them ruminating quicker, dry matter intake picked up quicker, milk response back quicker, like that is that is a huge benefit. But like what I really, really saw is when we did it in some heifers and even some of the

[24:00] Chris Radke  Mm-mm.

[25:30] Dr. Mat Faulkner  Cows and we didn't do any trials comparison side by side, but historically, when I looked at reproduction amongst heifers and cows on a lot of my dairies, we had anywhere from a two to a six percent increase in preg rate. And so this just told me like, okay, we're recovering quicker, we're getting over these heat events quicker, and we're maintaining our reproduction better than we have in the past. Granted, after that heat comes through, three  Weeks later, that herd check's not going to be nearly as good. But what I started seeing was instead of 22 to 26 percent.  We were now running twenty-eight to thirty-two, you know, and not maybe the thirty-eight to forty-two we were running before. And that's a really big deal coming in to keep your days in milk down. You don't have those big slugs where all of a sudden three months you go from my my herd was 160 days in milk to now we're 180 days in milk or plus, you know, depending on where you started. Cause that can mean, you know, in in nine months, that can mean the difference in you know, five to ten pounds of production.  And it's not only the production side, it's the health of the animal. The animal is recovering quicker. The animal is performing better. So you know that you're doing a better job by the animal. And again, we just went through our first heat stress event here. ⁓ you know, like I said, a week ago, and I I had I pretty much have all my herds on Replete. I had one that was not. And all of those herds, it was it was about a 48 hour, like my milk was down on, I think it was when.  Wednesday Wednesday was like when the milk went down. Thursday it was maintained to where it was on Wednesday and it started to cool off. By Friday, we were building, and by Saturday, we were back. So to me, heat's always gonna hurt calves when you have sustained heat for especially 72 hours plus, you're gonna have a dip, but like how quick can I get them back to normal? And that's what I've seen with the Replete product is I can get them back quicker. And then, you know, again, when we have our second, we have our third, we have our  fourth event, like you know, that four pounds might become eight pounds. And like, and even on that last heat event last year that we saw late sept or mid-September, I think we had that one come through, those late lactation cows just quit. You know, you're probably not gonna get back to where you started. That girl's like, I'm done, I'm tired, like drive me off, get me out of here. ⁓ but you know like it was just when when I had it in those herds, I compared to the herds that I didn't have in or  Or even other peers or herds that I was calling on, like those, I I just got them back quicker. Those those dips weren't quite as severe.

[27:00] Mike Donaldson  I think and I think you made a really a really important point early on, and that was the ability for the reproductive the reproduction performance drop to extend quite a while after the milk drop has already recovered. And and I think it's not been that long, maybe might be ten, fifteen years, but still hasn't been that long.  That people have actually paid attention closely enough to see the effect of a very hot summer affecting breeding, September, October, what you spoke to about the time it takes for an oocyte to develop and mature. And it it just because it's comfortable now doesn't mean we're not still seeing negative impact from what we experienced.

[28:30] Dr. Mat Faulkner  Correct. It's it's thirty to sixty days. And I think most people would agree it's gonna be sixty days like after you finished your last heat event for everything to fully recover. I mean you you could run I don't care where you go, what part of the United States you're in  October is probably your highest percentage of of cows bred in a month because you're getting all those cows that have now finally recovered from the heat stress. You know, by August, September we're pretty good. Like I said, last year we had that late heat in September that kind of, you know, it it threw a little wrench in the toolbox for us, but still October, November. And you know, like it it's those slug calvings that always get you and like, you know, and that's why it's kind of just like, all right, guys, if we can minimize that, can we take ten, fifteen, twenty percent out of that group?  And then we can survive, you know, like maybe we maybe we lose 10 days in milk ⁓ you know, six months from now, and then we capture that return on the investment that we made through the heat. And I mean, I I'd even say that in the wintertime, I saw that on a dairy, ⁓ you know, a very high performing dairy. ⁓ this year we we invested into like when it got butt cold, like, okay, we're we're gonna invest in a quarter pound of fat, and we're gonna almost condense diets similar to what we do in.  the summertime, you know, and and we saw higher production, higher reproduction and stuff like that. So whether it's heat stress, whether it's cold stress, like just knowing what you have to do for the cows, for their health, and for your profitability. If you take care of the cows, the cows will take care of you.

[30:00] Mike Donaldson  Yeah. No, like you mentioned there's a big difference between staying alive and being productive, hitting the mark on Repro as well as production. It's ⁓ my wife grew up in the country but not on a farm and she thinks a discussion like we're having things she's been exposed to with Agri-King absolutely mind blowing. She thought only like NASA and the Mayo Clinic paid attention to stuff like this and not just not just of a herd of cows and

[31:30] Dr. Mat Faulkner  Mm.

[33:00] Mike Donaldson  She couldn't be more wrong and she's a good student. She's picking up fast, but I think I think there's still a lot people don't grasp.

[34:30] Dr. Mat Faulkner  I I think one of the best things I've ever been told, and I'll never forget it, is just think about biological survival and extreme conditions, right? The first thing is I'm going to survive. I'm going to survive. So when the animal has that mindset, reproduction is the first thing to go. Like if I if I can't support myself, I can't support another human human being. And you know, and then production is going to be the next thing. Like, if if you know, whether that's running, working, whatever, like whatever, I'm just going to do as little as possible.  possible to make sure that I can make it through this event. So like survival is biologically n the number one instinct of any species.

[36:00] Mike Donaldson  Yeah. Well that's perfect. Any any other, you know, closing thoughts you'd like to throw into the mix, Mat, as far as the weather we're dealing with now, you know, what the rest of the w summer might look like. Any ⁓ anything you like to close with?

[37:30] Chris Radke  Mm-mm.

[39:00] Dr. Mat Faulkner  Yeah, so like I I don't think it's always just products. Like I said, you know, like when you find a good product you use it. But it's just making sure that you're you're making every bite worth its worth its bunch. You know, Selenium's FDA regulated at point three parts per million, ⁓ you know, supplemental selenium. So but make sure your vitamin E levels are up and as you're gonna condense those diets because you know, okay, let's say our high producing dairy our high producing group we have balanced at somewhere probably between sixty two and maybe even sixty  Pounds of dry matter. If you know that those cows are going to drop to 60 to 62, make sure you're keeping that mineral base at the same. You know, because then intake's coming down and you want to have those antioxidant coefficients for those enzymes there. ⁓ You know, just be mindful of what the  need. Make sure you're walking those pens, being due diligent to make sure you're avoiding that acidosis or anything like that. You know,  I'm a big firm believer in like upping the potassium.  Levels. You know, you probably want to be in that 1.4 to 1.5%.  I'm maybe not the biggest believer in the potassium carbonate DCAD side of things. you know, like I I get it, I've seen the research, it can be quite expensive to do. Use potassium chloride if that's if that's what you want. Make sure your salt levels are where you want them. Really, all we're trying to do is drive water intake. Not only is water 86% of milk is water, but water is a cooling effect for these

[40:30] Mike Donaldson  Yeah.

[42:00] Dr. Mat Faulkner  Make sure your sprinklers are on, make sure you maximize fans.  This is probably a really unique thing, like as as as producers milk more cows, right? And and as as pens become as full as they become.  I can remember a long time ago that it it was you don't put fans over your feed alley. You put fans down in the middle of the barn. You know what? Where are those cows standing when it gets hot? They're standing under the sprinklers in the feed alley. They're just standing there and panting. It does not hurt to put fans over that sprinkler system over the feed alley. Like those cows will enjoy it. You will see an increased amount of production. Mind your facilities. Make sure that you're increasing that sprinkler rate. Make sure you're opting.

[43:30] Mike Donaldson  Mm.

[45:00] Dr. Mat Faulkner  What those fans are. Cow comfort is the number one thing that is not only gonna make your cow better, make your life  and make you more profitable. If you take care of those cows, you will take care of yourself.

[46:30] Chris Radke  Mm-hmm.

[48:00] Mike Donaldson  That's  that is perfect. I I cannot improve on that. I will ⁓ let you know ahead of time you can start thinking of a creative excuse, but you will be asked to do this again on another topic. I will guarantee you that was a great job, Mat. So cr Yeah, well that's well that that's agreed. We could I can make that guarantee. I can make that promise. So Chris, what'd you learn today?

[49:30] Dr. Mat Faulkner  Yeah.  Well keep it to cows and then I'll be okay.

[51:00] Chris Radke  Keep  it to c  a big takeaway is just the way Mat simplified it for us. the higher the heat, or as heat increases, the less the cows are gonna eat. And as they eat less, the less they're gonna do. Reproduction and then production, they go into survival mode. And just love the simplicity of that. ⁓ whatever you're listening to us, whatever platform, leave us a review, leave us a like, share it with a friend. And if you have any topics that you'd like us to talk about or any other comments, you can email us at podcast@agriking  .com. Mat, Mike, thank you so much for your time.

[52:30] Mike Donaldson  Thank you guys.

[54:00] Dr. Mat Faulkner  Thank you, gentlemen