Loud & Clear with Tashara Parker

Redefining Black Masculinity: Humor, Healing & Representation w/ Dr. Brandon Manning

• Tashara Parker

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 40:58

Send us Fan Mail

What happens when vulnerability meets strength? In this powerful episode, Dr. Brandon Manning unpacks the complexities of Black masculinity, shedding light on mental health, self-care, and breaking free from macho stereotypes.

We dive into how humor becomes a tool for healing, challenging cultural narratives through the lens of icons like Dave Chappelle and Jamie Foxx. From personal stories to cultural critiques, this conversation redefines what it means to be resilient and authentic.

🎙️ What You’ll Discover:
• The power of vulnerability and strength in Black masculinity
• The importance of self-care for Black men
• How humor challenges and reshapes cultural perceptions
• Representation in media and its cultural impact
• Insights from Dr. Brandon Manning on reclaiming authentic stories

About Loud & Clear Show with Tashara Parker:
Loud & Clear with Tashara Parker is more than a talk show—it’s a new era of bold storytelling where authenticity, truth, and representation take center stage. Hosted by 5X Emmy-winning journalist Tashara Parker, this groundbreaking show amplifies voices and stories that often go unheard, diving into the real issues that inspire change and drive meaningful conversations.

With her signature warmth and unapologetic approach, Tashara steps into a new role, bringing you raw, unfiltered discussions that challenge norms and elevate perspectives. Whether it's exploring personal triumphs, community advocacy, or pressing societal topics, Loud & Clear creates a space for honest, impactful dialogue.

Tune in each week to join the movement, stay inspired, and celebrate the power of showing up loud and proud.
____________________________________________________________________________________________


For more content, subscribe to the channel
Follow us on Instagram
Follow us on Facebook

Introduction and Overview

Speaker 1

This is my show , black Don't Crap baby . What drove you to want to focus on black masculinity ?

Speaker 2

You can't be the same you on the other side of this . I'm Jamie Foxx . This shouldn't be happening to me I remember coming home triumphantly that night and telling my single mother that I'm a man Like today it happened .

Speaker 1

I can't tell you how many black men that I have in my life that I have to remind to take their butts to the doctor . I had my life that I have to remind to take their butts to the doctor , and so by the time we get to Trump , I'm like that makes sense , because now he can be angry .

Speaker 1

Miss Tashara Parker , you could just be your whole dope . I knew that I wanted to be something , to have impact . You actually testified before the Texas Senate . We just want to exist . Representation matters . You can make a difference every single day . Show up authentically , loud and proud , as the person that you truly are . We're still having a conversation . Oh my God , I'm going to get emotional . The internet favorite has been Appreciate you showing up as your natural self .

Speaker 2

This is a good question , Tashara .

Speaker 1

Thanks for bringing it up . Nobody ever brings up . You're pretty good at this . We have a lot more coming up . I wanted to see an action .

Speaker 1

We're so happy to have you on Loud and Clear , okay . So today , hold on . Y'all know I'm country , okay , no , today's episode , our next guest . One of the things that he mentioned hey brother , take care of yourself . I can't tell you how many black men that I have in my life family friends that I have to remind to take their butts to the doctor to rest . Okay , to take care of yourself .

Speaker 1

So this episode is all about black men , black masculinity , what we can do as caretakers to make sure our black men are taking care of themselves so they can continue to do this work . One of the things that we mentioned throughout the episode is grow through what you go through . We ain't editing that out , because that's what this is all about authenticity . So welcome again to the Loud and Clear Show with Tashara Parker , where we amplify stories that challenge , inspire and hopefully make you think a little bit .

Speaker 1

Okay , today I am sitting down with Dr Branding Manning , a scholar , storyteller and cultural critic , whose work discusses the role black masculinity plays in America America . Through his groundbreaking research , he examines how humor , satire and vulnerability serve as tools to challenge stereotypes and redefine what we perceive as strength . His insights not only explore the past , but also lay a foundation for future generations to reclaim their stories and identities , which is something that we know we need these days , especially in 2025 , this new era . Y'all know what I'm talking about Loud and clear family . Let's welcome the brilliant Dr Brandon Manning . How are you doing today ?

Speaker 2

I'm doing great , and yourself , I'm good , I'm good .

Speaker 1

I do have to start it off with this because this was one of the main reasons that I reached out to you . Obviously love your work , but the title of Black Masculinity I feel like that's a phrase that gets people to like their ears kind of perk up like what the heck is going , what they talking about over there ? Right so what drove you to want to focus on black masculinity and some of your research ?

Speaker 2

yeah , that's a . That's a great point , a great question . I was a young father , um , and since the age of 20 I've been raising my two boys , and then I had my daughter come along and really it was just , uh , I think , an extension of me trying to be mindful in the way that I was raising them alongside my wife . Uh , that really just had me think about those choices , uh , in terms of how you pour into your children , uh , how , like , what it means for them to grow into the men that we want them to be , uh , and so that was largely it . Also , my first book was around humor and satire yes

Speaker 2

and , uh , you , you know I'll probably be dating myself here a little bit , but when I was in undergrad I was watching Dave Chappelle all the time and followed very closely when Chappelle came off air and so much of that seemed to be wrapped up in his performance of masculinity and gender , and so it really just made me want to kind of dive in and explore a little bit more why and how black men first are gravitated towards humor and comedy as a space where they can kind of share themselves . But then , two , what the world makes of that move towards humor is laughter , a way of like not engaging .

Speaker 1

So , in your research , what have you found and what can you teach us ? You know about black masculinity as it relates to satire and culture and everything that's kind of intertwined into it . I know we would need a whole course at TCU to actually be able to know all this stuff . But I'm just saying , help us summarize a little bit , because we want to educate the people around here .

Speaker 2

Yeah .

Speaker 2

You know , one of the things is , I think , really important when we're looking back in terms of african-american literature and history is that really , since frederick douglass , um , in the late 19th century , uh , the country has always been invested in this kind of race man , this kind of ,

Personal Stories of Black Masculinity

Speaker 2

uh , singular form of leadership , uh , and across frederick douglass into thinking about web du bois and booker t washington , uh , and then obviously on them through martin luther king jr , uh and into the present . We've always looked to that like one person , and it's oftentimes been a man , and it being a man has left a lot of things , um , by the wayside . That dynamic also replicates itself in humor , and I think the country feels like if it can laugh at a thing , it's healed from a thing . And so when black men then take the stage in front of mixed audience , from Richard Pryor to Jamie Foxx's- most recent .

Speaker 1

I was going to ask you about that . Okay , go ahead .

Speaker 2

What had happened . Yeah , I think that there's a giving of themselves , but there's also a way of trying to put their finger on the pulse of race and gender and this contemporary moment , and how they make sense of it . Yeah , yeah .

Speaker 1

So when you , you just mentioned Jamie Foxx , and that was certainly going to be a follow up question after you started talking about David Chappelle and all the other individuals that you followed , but I watched Jamie Foxx from a consumerism standpoint , right ? I'm consuming this information and this knowledge and I really wanted to know what had happened was Please tell us , right . So when you watched it , did you come from that same perspective or did you come from the perspective of man ?

Speaker 1

I got all this research back here and I'm seeing you perform but , have you healed in what it's been a year , a year or so , uh , since the situation when you watch it . What did you take away from that performance ? Because I'm looking at , like man , I ain't seen no , uh netflix special like this . I thought it was incredibly . I'm a production person , producing . I thought it was incredibly well told . I'm also a storyteller , so I'm looking at it from that perspective . What did you see ?

Speaker 2

Yeah , that's a great question . I when I first watched it , I was really taken aback . I'm beginning to write for the second book and am thinking about how to build on some of the things that I talk about in the first book . And one of those central ideas is vulnerability and black men and vulnerability , specifically the ways that black men find that they can share their kind of emotional inner life , how they can create community , how they can do all of these things . And I've been looking and thinking a lot about jared carmichael's roth annual . It's another stand-up routine .

Speaker 2

Um , where he does this kind of community engagement . Um , because most times stand-up comics don't want the community to talk or have the audience to talk to him , right , uh , and jared carmichael invites the kind of audience into this kind of shared therapy space . And I really saw that replicated in Fox's most recent stand up routine . Because you've got folks there saying you know , atlanta saved your life .

Speaker 2

And there is this kind of shared space . That's usually not what happens on the stand up stage and it's a beautiful thing and , and beyond that , what he does with that community is be extremely vulnerable . Um , you know , there's something extremely powerful seeing jamie foxx , um , who says in the routine like I'm jamie foxx , this shouldn't be happening to me really grapple with his own mortality in front of us yeah um , and feeling helpless too .

Speaker 2

Feeling helpless , uh , kind of surrendering a bit to that and crying and being vulnerable , inviting his daughters onto stage , and so we get a bit more of a kind of intimate take of Fox in ways that we otherwise wouldn't have been able to have , maybe had this not happened , and so , yeah , what do you think , from a standpoint of what that shows other men , black men in particular , to see him get up there and , in so many words , surrender to everything that he endured over the last year ?

Speaker 1

plus , what do you think that says to those not just in the audience in the room , but the virtual audience , other people who are out there just watching this ?

Speaker 2

room , but the virtual audience , you know other people who are out there just watching this . I think it says so much right , in part , because I think the fact that it was a medical emergency , um , you know , uh , what is it ? Men live longer if they're married to women . That whole discourse around toxic masculinity is really , when I talk to my students , it's like a double-edged sword .

Speaker 2

To my students it's like a double-edged sword , right , um , it is both a way of articulating the fact that men largely , um , move in realms of anger , uh , and when you think about , uh , violence and and and these other kind of things , the way that it gets perpetrated , but also kind of the violence that men do to themselves in terms of not taking care of themselves , not going to the doctor , not checking on themselves , and so I feel like , beyond just the vulnerable um piece and him being emotional in this kind of public space , it's also really big that it is around this kind of medical piece and him figuring out what his path through that is right , um , and you know , one of the things that I think was one of the really important takeaways from it was , you know , as he's talking to the therapist who's trying to help him get back on his feet , she says you know , you can't be the same you on the other side of this , I need the new Jamie Foxx .

Speaker 2

And so I think in many ways , what we saw during the routine was a new Jamie Foxx , kind of unapologetic , spiritual in ways that we maybe don't know Fox in these ways , and so I mean , it was , it was really kind of beautiful to see just kind of another blossoming of of Jamie Foxx .

Speaker 1

I love that you use blossoming , because I feel like we grow through what we grow through . So , I love that you use that . How does your book played out ? Critique the stereotypes often associated with black men .

Speaker 2

How does your book Played Out critique the stereotypes often associated with black men ? Yeah , so oftentimes the way that humor gets picked up . Historically , it was through this kind of very racist imagery and iconography of black-faced minstrelsy .

Speaker 2

It was going back to the turn of the century , to turn of the century , um , and black men were standing on stage and and then in television and radio , uh , performing , you know , caricatures of themselves , and so it's been interesting to see how black men take that desire for laughter , that desire to see them perform , and then undermine it and change the terms of that . And so it's , it's , it's that I feel like that's how it largely takes care of the stereotypes that couple with the fact that , you know , I'm always interested in how black men engage , like physical comedy or , you know , there are certain tropes that are kind of true across different stand-up routines . I'm always interested in who and how folks wear leather .

Speaker 1

Huh , mm-hmm , wait , wait , wait , explain what is it I ?

Speaker 2

mean like from Live from the Sunset Strip . Chris Rock , eddie Murphy during their biggest routines they are all looks like hot as all outdoors in nothing but leather .

Speaker 2

And Jamie Foxx just had leather on and so like . There are some things that are like low key and even Wanda Sykes during one of her major yeah and so like . As you're like thinking about engaging in the kind of masculine space of the stand-up stage , it oftentimes comes with its own sartorial kind of choices in terms of of dress and and how folks you know are fly on stage , and that that in and of itself is its own kind of performance whoa , yeah , I never even would have again .

Speaker 1

I'm watching it from a storytelling , a production , how they weave all these different pieces together , not even considering that even just your , your method of dress , with what you put on , is part of the storytelling so this genealogy , this community of comics that , um , you know , I think , are oftentimes in the same community and are referencing each other ?

Speaker 2

Yeah , good stuff , man . I knew I had to reach out to you .

Speaker 1

Yes , I want you to share an example , if you have one , where satire has effectively challenged perceptions of black masculinity .

Speaker 2

Yeah , so the first book . It really focuses sketch comedy and , uh , novel-length satire . So I do a bit uh um around dave chappelle and how he ends up leaving uh , the chappelle show . I also have a chapter on key and peel . Uh , and the chapter on key and Peele , and specifically the anger translator , is , I think , one of my favorite sketches reoccurring sketches , but also chapters Because there's a moment where , you know , fiction becomes fact and you've got Luther the anger translator , who then comes on stage with Barack Obama at one of the White House Correspondents Association dinners and that's , you know . The thing that I love about the sketch is that for Luther , you know , the initial sketch opened up , I want to say January 2012 . And it was at the beginning of Obama's second term and Obama had been largely critiqued that first term for being too stoic straight laced too , professorial yeah .

Speaker 2

And not emotional enough . And one of the things that I write about in the chapter is that I feel like the country wanted to tap into what they thought a black masculine rage was , and figure out how to have that work for them , and so by the time we get to trump , I'm like that makes sense , because now he can be angry , he can be unfettered , and they , you know it doesn't have any conditions exactly um .

Speaker 2

And so , then , luther the anger translator allowed for key and peel to be able to um , speak through what we know to be the kind of coded language we have to do as black folks being in corporate America , being in predominantly white spaces wherein we can now translate or have translated for us , our emotions and reading through the lines . And so the Luther the anger translator sketch , I think , did that brilliantly . And then , when obama himself invites luther on stage with him , it's like a full circle moment .

Speaker 1

And he's like look , now that you know , I'm in my second term , uh , and towards the end of it , I can tell you all uh or have translated for me um how I really feel I do want to ask you that , uh , you mentioned trump and how President Trump now is able to just say , and pretty much do you know what he pleases when he pleases , and so I don't think I know President Obama would not have been able to do the same things or , if he did , wouldn't have been perceived the same way , right . And so I ask you , from a standpoint of black masculinity and vulnerability and you know everything else that we can tie into it what do you say to you ? Know , the public , in a sense of like he couldn't do that at that time , right , you have any advice or feedback on that ?

Speaker 2

Yeah , I mean , I think so much of the way that Obama is read in that moment is . There was , I think , a focus by a lot of America , waiting to see if he would be angry in those ways , if he would be angry in those ways , right , and I think part of the reason why he ended up being that first black president in the way that he was was because he controlled that very well .

Speaker 2

But so much of what he does offer up in terms of emotionality is oftentimes a kind of sadness . I remember post-Sandy Hook , post-trayvon Martin people were frustrated at his sadness right they were frustrated

Discussing Health and Self

Speaker 2

when he said that trayvon martin could have been him or his son . Yep , um , they were frustrated , uh , by his like affective and emotional kind of responses to these things . That , coupled with the fact , the other thing that he gave us was like unabashed coolness yes , and so he got so much swag .

Speaker 2

He got so much swag and that in and of itself is his own kind of uh , black masculine performance . It's kind of cool posing and what it means and how black men have historically used coolness and swag and whatever else as a way of making sure that they can at least present themselves as being unbothered by the world . Um , and even though it offers an armor , it also has this kind of like . It has this other cost associated with it , and so but he was able to do that in real time for the American people .

Speaker 2

And so anger was definitely off the table .

Speaker 1

Yeah , absolutely . You mentioned Key and Peele already , but how has modern media , like Kendrick Lamar's music , reshaped the narrative of black identity ?

Speaker 2

Yeah , no , love Kendrick Lamar , love thinking about hip hop , j Cole mining it for these various spaces . You know , I think that they've done a fantastic job . Hip hop in particular , in terms of offering different ways that black men um can look and be um . You know , part of what I love , for instance , about j cole , uh is he performs a kind of introspection like what does it mean to be mindful ? What does it mean to to be meditative on how you move through the world ? Um , yeah , and so one of the things that hopefully I'll be able to , um kind of write about soon is is about him , j Cole , removing himself from from their beef and what that looks like as an act of of , like , brotherly love , even though within the discourse of hip hop , like , oh , he was running , he didn't want the smoke or any of these other kind of things . And so what does it mean to really prioritize community and the people you love and what , and the ways that you know how to love and even the music that he dropped after the fact .

Speaker 1

I think . I think he's been very outspoken and out loud about , like you said , like looking you know internally , about you know how this looks , not just between the two of us as artists , but just in the orbit , like in the world , like how people are perceiving this . We're going at it when we can be , you know , brothers in this . So I love me some J Cole too . So happy that you mentioned it . I do want to talk about the dangers of tokenism , especially when it comes to media academia . How do we move beyond that ?

Speaker 2

Yeah , yeah , that is a great question .

Speaker 2

You know , I routinely teach my students about WEB Du Bois and this idea of double consciousness and it's this idea that , you know , for black folks . They are always having to not only think about themselves as free you know moving subjects but also the way that others are perceiving them in real time Black women . When you think about that , there's another layer on top of that , right , and so you know , for my students at TCU , at a predominantly white institution , in this moment , that rings very true for them . They know what it looks like and means to be the only in the space and feel like they have to perform in a particular way , to be the only me in front of the classroom . I know what that looks like , as do a number of folks in in various spaces . Tokenism is is a is a very important kind of thing that we can navigate .

Speaker 2

You know , part of black folks have created a number of different responses to struggles historically . One of them is like the politics of respectability , where we're trying to figure out , like , if we can present ourselves as respectable , if I can come in here with this jacket , uh , and this button up , then maybe I'll be worthy of being treated like a person , right , um , and no one else really carries that , that kind of burden um , we've got places where it is like illegal to sag right , um , but but if you were alternative and had your buckles and your wide pants and whatever it is you're rocking ?

Speaker 2

that's just understood as a form of self-expression and it doesn't carry any kind of legal or heaven forbid like you being alive at the end of the day kind of consequences associated with it .

Speaker 2

And so kind of what I've always told my boys and folks is that just know that you're being perceived in these particular ways , but try and not allow it to dictate how you move , other than just knowing what the consequences are , because those consequences are real right . And so when you're , when you're tokenized and made to stand in for everybody , it can be a bit of a burden but we also need to check kind of those moments and those assumptions that we have to move into that representative kind of role .

Speaker 1

You mentioned how certain people can be seen doing some of the same things that maybe we have to . You know button up to do as a form of self-expression . Know button up to do as a form of self-expression . So I do want to ask you , from a standpoint of young black creatives , right , who do want to express themselves in certain ways how do you help them or what do you tell them when it comes to continuing to reclaim their stories today ?

Speaker 2

That is a good question . So I've got both of my sons now my oldest is about to be 20 , believe it or not , and he plays basketball for TCU . Wow .

Speaker 1

Hold on , wait a minute . You say 20? .

Speaker 2

Yes .

Speaker 1

Wow . I'm going to go on set because it's my show Black , don't crack baby . Go ahead on now , go on .

Speaker 2

But he plays basketball at TCU . My younger son plays , has just signed and will start at UNT for football .

Speaker 1

Congratulations , man . That's beautiful yeah yeah , in January .

Speaker 2

And so , while it hasn't been so much around black young creatives , it has been what it means , especially for these black boys , to be in these predominantly like sports worlds , and what it means for you know them , to grapple with their body , feeling like it's no longer theirs , what it means to have fans say anything online or or coaches .

Speaker 2

And so part of what I think we all have to do is figure out what our set of investments are . What is it that we want to say ? I found myself in this first book kind of being bound by humor and satire but really called to to speak more broadly about masculinity , and so , like this second book is going to be me no longer kind of controlled or kind of hamstring by the vehicle of humor or satire , but thinking about masculinity more broadly . And so I think for everybody it's what is your set of investments ? What are you trying to convey ? How can you say that ? And the more that you can figure out that best method to do that without losing part of who you are and what that initial message is , the better . But you know you've got to do your homework to figure out the how that part ?

Speaker 1

Yeah , people don't want to research these things Right . They ain't researching . I had somebody on the show earlier and they was like I'm going to date myself . We didn't have Google back then . I was like , look , you ain't dating yourself .

Speaker 1

You mean , you have to do some real research around here and I was talking to someone earlier when it comes to the subject matter experts that we use when we're doing our research and who we're citing when it comes to this research . That's also important because the more often that we continue to cite our people and make sure that their work is amplified , that's when we can continue to build on the stories that have already been told and remind folks that we stand on the shoulders of giants . So certainly got to continue that work . I do have to ask you this how has your own identity and experiences shaped the lens through which you critique black masculinity ?

Speaker 2

Yeah , yeah , you know I was . I'm in the process of writing this preface now , writing this uh preface now . I grew up uh in greater atlanta area and I remember uh working at a fast food restaurant um in high school and you know , when you're a , a black teenager , a young black boy , in these kind of fast food spaces , you are cleaning , cleaning the bathrooms and taking out the trash .

Speaker 2

I was taking out the trash and while I'm doing that I'm seeing this car in the drive-thru and this man is hitting this woman and I like the line is not moving . I've clearly got enough time to muster what little courage I had . I end up probably doing what I would not advise my kids to do . I go and open her door , we go into another neighboring kind of restaurant storefront and I have her call whomever to come and get her .

Speaker 2

But I remember coming home triumphantly that night and telling my single mother , uh , that I'm a man like today yeah , it happened like like it was like that it just clicked , just like that um , and she's , you know , dealt with uh intimate , partner violence , domestic violence , I think uh kind of throughout her life your , your mom , my mother , and I think this was a way of me feeling like I could be seen , but also feeling like I see her . Yeah .

Speaker 2

And so I say all of that , to say that like out of that moment , even as instantaneous and maybe ridiculous as it was , to say like I'm a man right . Or like a raisin in the sun , mama Lena , you know by the end of it , you know he didn't come into his manhood today .

Speaker 2

That there are worlds and possibilities of what it means to shape and be kind of a man . And so these moments , coupled with I shared earlier being a young father and what that has meant , you know , I had my son at the end of my sophomore year when I was an undergrad , had my daughter while I was writing my dissertation . Like you know , any kind of academic , any kind of movements , advances that I've been able to make , my wife has been able to make , we've done them with the kids there , and that's been integral to how I've just moved and it's informed my thinking on masculinity , my thinking on parenting and so much more .

Speaker 1

What do you hope audiences take away from your work as a scholar and cultural critic ?

Speaker 2

Yeah , you know it is so easy to think , you know what blackness is , to think , you know what or who black women are or who or what black men are , and I think so much of my work is invested in having us sit with and question what we think we know about black men and really looking for .

Speaker 2

If you have any assumptions associated with kind of these things , then how can you go through and really question and interrogate what those assumptions are ? Yeah , because black men are whole folks . You know I like to watch a bunch of movies . Hate the fact that kind of the universal story , like somebody's having a sleepy Saturday morning . That's generally a white story , because universe , because whiteness , is oftentimes understood to be universal , absolutely . Uh , toni Morrison was asked why does she only write about black people ?

Speaker 1

and she's got to write together , right right , because the assumption was that black people can't stand in as the universal human experience that's what I mean about getting the right subject , not just right subject matter experts , but using our people as the subject matter experts when it comes to their expertise , because oftentimes that's not what we do . I know that's going to pick up . Sorry , I think that's where he went . Yeah , he went to go and talk to him . I saw him leave . Yeah , so I'm gonna wait till that goes .

Speaker 1

Dang , I was about to get into it too , man . Because when it comes to um , I'll just say this whether we can use it or not , when it comes to subject matter experts , again , it's not seen as the norm , like if we bring you on to do something in other places , um , oftentimes that's seen as , oh , this person can do that too . What do you mean ? The same way , you're thinking about all these other experts that you bring on and no one's gonna call in and say , oh , you only have all these white people , okay , this is my show . And nobody's gonna call in and say , oh , you got all these white people on , but let me bring on five brothers one week , or five sisters in one week . Some like , oh , we need some diversity .

Speaker 1

Now , you were saying that three weeks ago , when we had five experts who don't look like me . So , anyways , I'm happy , that happy that you mentioned that , because I think that is so , so , so important when it comes to telling and claiming and reclaiming our stories , especially in a day and age where it seems like those stories . I got to ask you this I know it's only so much you can probably say , but when it comes to education and the books and all the things that is being done right now in so many ways people can paint it however they want to paint it , but in so many ways to really rewrite the narrative of what people understand about our history , when you go from and I'm sure you got way more knowledge on this but when you go from calling slavery and the enslaved to indentured servitude , whatever they wanna call it these days , how are you handling that as an educator ? I know it's only so much you can do in your classroom , but how are you handling that ?

Speaker 2

Yeah , no , I mean , it is difficult . I am fortunate enough to be at TCU , where it is a private institution and it is not , you know , wrapped up and bound up in kind of what's happening at the state legislature , in the same way that other institutions are . Right now , unt just had to remove , I think , race and gender from a number of their courses , like in the title .

Speaker 2

I know colleagues at University of Texas and elsewhere they're struggling right now with this , but you know it's definitely in the water and I will say that there have been moments where I have been able to benefit from societal pushes and investments . You know , I taught a class on black feminism and it was right after uh , I'm gonna forget Beyonce's album that came out .

Speaker 1

Cowboy Carter . Uh , no , no , no before lemonade .

Speaker 2

What was before lemonade ?

Speaker 1

oh , the beehive gonna get me Beyonce . That was the name of it . Thank you , we got a beehive in the background .

Speaker 2

And she had put so much energy around this kind of pop feminism .

Speaker 2

She had Chimamda Adeche on there defining feminism , doing all of these things , and I could see , as students were entering the classroom , the impact that this broader moment was having on their thinking and how that's that gave us a foundation to start from . I'm seeing a bit of the inverse now , right , where it is students who are frustrated that they didn't learn something . How could they not know , you know , any of these kind of massacres or any of the kind of real ways that Jim Crow was kind of a mundane in your face kind of event and they are frustrated . Or , you know , as I just got finished teaching a black masculinity classes this past fall , you know come in , uh , and you know you're doing great work here , but you know podcasts are largely this space where , um , the manosphere and kind of misogyny can run rampant right

Speaker 2

I was hoping you was gonna get to this and so you know , and and this is what students come into the classroom with , right , they come in knowing the , the andrews and the , the whomevers , and then that becomes part of the fodder in the conversation for what's happening in the classroom . Uh , and so , in the same ways that there was a kind of pop feminist kind of push , I think in the 20 teens , I'm feeling like there's a pop like misogyny happening right now to where young men and some young women are like entering into the classroom space not realizing the way that gender is being informed for them before they even get there .

Speaker 1

That is so good . Why is that ?

Speaker 2

though .

Speaker 1

Is it background ? Is it because of the ideas and , you know , imagery that we've seen or that that generation has seen coming up ? Because oftentimes there are some seasoned podcast hosts out there doing some things too , but a lot of times it's a younger generation too who's perpetuating some of the things that they've seen and or heard , and I guess I'm just wondering what can we do ? One to continue to make sure that we're getting the right information out there , but also , where's some of that coming from ?

Speaker 2

yeah , that's . That's a great question . I uh , you know , it's interesting , uh , that I feel like students and we talked about it a little bit before they're not doing the reading that they would need to , and I think that's as a society .

Speaker 1

Society absolutely .

Speaker 2

I don't want to say it's this younger generation , but folks are not reading or are reading in different ways , and even though we are pulling away from each other as people , we still desire some kind of contact , and I think that largely comes in the form of what we consume in terms of the media , our media consumption , and it has the ability to then function as an echo chamber , unfortunately . And so you have folks that are not being able to um read or uh , via laws and legislations that are happening , or the desire to not read , uh , and what you get is uh , a kind of mass , uh body of people who um think that they know um , and you know you talked so compellingly earlier about standing on giants in the citational and the pulling back to move forward . You know , my big concern is that folks don't know where to look don't know how to pull , don't know who to look back to .

Speaker 2

And so , yeah , I mean , I think that's part of what my why is right now in the classroom is trying to make sure that when students the storytelling continues , but also making sure that when you do receive some type of information that you've either heard , read or watched on television , what have you that you don't become that you know , echo chamber for that information ?

Speaker 1

that's clearly not the right thing to do , and or say . So what advice do you have for people that are listening to this that you really want to get across , especially as you're , uh , in the process of creating this new book , writing this new book ?

Speaker 2

stillness , I think , is something that we have largely moved away from in this moment . You know , uh , we things used to take time to mature thoughts , ideas , people , uh , and things have there's been a desire for more uh , instant , more uh in this moment , uh , and it has really , um , thwarted our ability to have things come to term , to to allow it to mature , to have to allow it to have season , and so , if you feel like you're reading something or seeing something , uh , instead of just hitting the retweet without reading it , cause that happens , um , you know what does it mean if you look at it from a few different sources ? Um , if it is too good to be true , how can you go about doing your homework ?

Speaker 2

How can you find the most non-biased , objective kind of spaces to look for material , and what does it mean for you to sit and process it Correct Without needing to bring it up ? I start each one of my classes by asking my students what's new since the last time I've seen you , and it's a way for us to connect the dots between what's happening in the world to maybe what we're studying . Yeah .

Speaker 2

And with the election this past semester and our focus on gender , you know part of what that was was . You know how is gender informing the election Right ? But when students bring something to me and they'll oftentimes want my reaction to a thing you know , I'll tell them like I need to read more about that or I need to .

Speaker 1

I need to sit with that a minute and hopes that I'm performing for them a kind of stillness and a kind of meditatedness , so that they're not just jumping in or feeling like they've got to have , you know , an idea on this subject that they don't even know for themselves and I think oftentimes especially you mentioned like the whole podcast world and everybody can have a microphone these days and I think oftentimes people are not taking the time to truly research whatever it is they are putting into the atmosphere , and I think stillness , as you mentioned , is something that we can all practice , and practice a little bit more often , as it relates to all of the work that we're doing to make sure that we're putting the right information out there .

Speaker 1

A lot of times , people want to respond quickly and instead of responding , you should say you know what . I need to go and get some more information about that . Allow me to research a little bit more and I can try to come back to you next week next class time , you know and give you an answer , and I think that is so important to any of the work that we're doing .

Speaker 1

Where can people find you .

Speaker 2

They can find me on Twitter , Prof . I think it's Prof BJ .

Speaker 1

Now , you really don't be on Twitter , if you don't know , your Twitter name as a matter of fact

Humor and Vulnerability in Black Culture

Speaker 1

, we don't get him off Twitter because you don't be on Twitter if you don't know your Twitter name .

Speaker 2

As a matter of fact , we're going to get him off Twitter because , yeah , you don't need to be yeah well , one day it's X now , whatever it's called child . And then you know I'm at the university , they can definitely reach out . I'm definitely looking to connect more with community . Yeah . And see how what has largely been just kind of on the page or on campus , uh , can be in the community a little bit more . Fort worth arlington etc .

Speaker 1

Because I've researched a lot of professors at tcu in preparation for this show and there's a lot of work that y'all are doing on campus that people need to know about and I hope that , as part of this conversation that we're having now , that we can continue to push that work out there as best we can . So , all right , thank you so much , doc , appreciate it , thank you .

Head Shot

Tashara Parker

Host