Episode 1: We Didn't Know

In this debut episode, we introduce ourselves—Sarah Harper, a trauma therapist and adoptee, and Brenda Chapel, an adoptive parent in an open adoption—and share the inspiration behind launching Harper-Chapel: The Constellation of Adoption.

We explore how our personal experiences within the adoption constellation have shaped our perspectives and strengthened our mission to create a more compassionate and equitable world for adoptees. From centering adoptee voices to fostering trauma-informed care, we discuss why these conversations are essential and how they’ve influenced our own journeys. Join us as we lay the foundation for what’s to come and invite you to be part of the constellation.

Transcript

How did we get here.

[00:00:00] Welcome to Constellation Conversations, where we explore the complexities of adoption to make the world a more compassionate place. And I am Brenda and you are Sarah, and this is our very first podcast. I guess we should tell people a little bit about, like, why this podcast was started and who we are.

So, why don't you start about how we met just a little bit? Okay. So, as aforementioned, I am Sarah and Brenda and I met, on tick tock actually, um, we, for various reasons, we're both kind of following adoptees and listening to conversations about adoption.

I am adopted I'm an adult. Adoptee, but I was adopted as an infant domestically in the United States, and I had found myself in tick tock listening to those stories when I started going through reunion with my biological family. So, when I found. My birth family and information about them, I really wanted to kind of have those conversations with other adoptees.

And so that's how I landed there. And then Brenda, and I kind of met in that space. If you want to talk about. What you were doing, so I kind of came to that space on accident. I always considered myself kind of a socially aware person, understanding, like, the complexities of issues and as a foster parents, I realized very quickly when I entered adoptee spaces that I was not informed properly.

And so I kind of sought out adoptee voices to have a better understanding of that first on. Facebook in groups and then on tick tock and just started really listening to better understand what my child's experience would be and how I could better support him. And so that's kind of the space that you and I met and I think I reached out to you with a question.

Did I ask for your emotional labor? You did you were like, well, we had been kind of messaging back and forth for some time. And then you're like, how do you feel about about. Talking to me about this, it was a, you were kind of wondering something about how to handle or approach something with your child and you had reached out to me and you said, you know, you talk about your adoption experience.

Like, it is a net positive experience and that your parents did so many things. Right? And how did they handle this thing? and yeah, that was kind of the beginning of us. Talking, I don't know if you want to talk more about that or why you would reach out to somebody on tick tock for those things because there is such limited information, right?

I was formerly a foster parent. And so we go to the foster clinic and everybody is very trauma informed there. But [00:03:00] they haven't all heard adoptee voices, and so they don't understand the complexities of it. And neither did I. And so I figured, like, who better to understand this from than the people that have experienced it themselves.

And so, like, these conversations between myself and adoptees, like, you have been so, so beneficial. And that's pretty much why we're starting this podcast so that everybody else can benefit from these types of conversations. not only. Did you not know so many things I didn't know, and I am an adoptee and, you know, you quickly realize the gaps in your own knowledge.

I had the same experience that I quickly learned the gaps in my knowledge because I was only aware of my own lived experience I grew up in a home with other adopted siblings and I thought I understood theirs. I realize now that even in the same home with the same parents, we were having wildly different perceptions of, what was going on.

And I was a trauma therapist for. You know, I had been 1 for. Nearly 15 years working with kids, you know, I was a child center play therapist. So child centered therapeutic work, a lot of work and trauma. And when I started listening to it, isn't just 1 or 2 adoptive voices. The power is in understanding the vast.

Different responses, and that was eye opening for me where the gaps and understanding are. So you and I, I think, had a lot of that same experience when we heard so many people, and there really does seem to be a gap, a knowledge gap, even professionally, like, my background originally is in mental health, you know, I have a master's in forensic psychology and education and you doing your work in trauma.

You would think that you would know these things. Yeah, and of course, some of those things I was. Of course, educated and aware of as were you, but I really just think the gap is an understanding the how the nuance of adoption changes a little bit of of how we apply the existing knowledge. and so, yeah, I love those conversations and I love what we're doing here.

And is it a good time for me to talk to them about our podcast? Okay. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Okay. So, our podcast is constellation conversations. That is what we want to do here. We want to have, open up so that other people can benefit from the conversations that we have been having.

And, you know, when we talk about. Adoption and people who are impacted by adoption, there's some different types of language used. And some people talk about the triad, which is the adoptee at the top and you have adoptive parents and biological parents. And those are the people that are involved. We're going with the constellation, which is a different choice of language that some people use, which centers the adoptee at the middle and all the different people.

Connected to the adoptee around and, of course, you know, that is, you know, a value of hours that we share that the adoptee is who should be centered in the conversations in the decision making in all of the processes surrounding adoptee and way more people are impacted than just 1st families and adoptive families.

We, you know, good heavens, my boyfriend, My ex husband, my child, um, you know. What? Friends, I mean, many other people are impacted and need to understand and so we want them to learn from all the different. People who can share their experience, so I'm very excited about getting to do that here. Yeah. And so our plan is to bring different people in from all parts of the constellation to kind of share what their experience and viewpoints are so that we have.

Continued conversations to continue to grow and learn, as people in [00:07:00] this constellation. I parent in a very open adoption. Just for clarity. You won't hear me say any specifics about my child or his family, at least his family without their consent, their adults, they can consent to things, but not for him for sure, not for him.

For sure. I might give you a little tidbits because he's kind of cute and really funny…and you may hear and you will not you may you will you will hear stories that it seems like the moral of the story conflicts and that is because no 2 adoptions are like, and even if they were alike.

Those experiences would be perceived different process differently. and, you know, you, we will not hear from 1st, parents and have them have similar experiences. So, the key takeaway is we learn by listening to the masses. That's what we, you know, there, there's not a easy, like, we don't have a checklist of things.

We want to make sure we share. We want other people to share. Absolutely. Yeah, that's how we learn and grow. It is how we learn and grow. So we're excited for, people to be here with us. 1 thing I want to just preface with as an adoptive parent, I remember 1st entering adoptee spaces and being very, very overwhelmed and confused.

And so if you are an adoptive parent, and you are listening, and you hear some stories from adopters.

I just want to give you some clarity and steps on what to do with that. The very 1st thing is to separate what you're hearing From your emotional perspective. So let me give you an example of that. I remember being in an adoptee centric space and, a first mom by a mom, however you want to call it, mom had referred to herself as a natural mom and like, it felt like just using that term when I first heard it, it felt like a gut punch.

And I was like, okay, why? Why does this feel like a gut punch? What is happening with me psychologically that's causing these emotions to come forward? And why don't I like this word? I just knew, like, initially, like, oh, I don't like that word. Don't use that word. I don't like that word. And then I thought to myself, like, rational Brenda, like, somebody's using this word to describe themselves.

Why would I push back on that? And when I separated myself from my feelings, I was able to kind of analyze and say, like, this makes me feel uncomfortable because it makes me feel inadequate because I'm not a natural I'm an unnatural mom. So, there is not any less valuable. It's it's just that different.

And you have to unpack your stuff. So anyway, for any adoptive parent that's listening and you hear a story on here that makes you feel quite uncomfortable, we will be giving you some reflection questions in our podcast notes for you to kind of sit with and reflect and marinate on and just let it sit with you.

Just let it sit with you and separate your feelings from your thoughts for a little bit until it all makes sense. Often our feelings, I think, are when we learn something new, and these are very complicated, nuanced issues we're talking about. We're talking about things connected to adoption and often those views are connected to deeply held beliefs that we hold.

And so when you hear something that challenges a deeply held belief that you have. That is really uncomfortable. It can cause you to think about good heavens, how I have interacted with somebody before if did I do this with my child or did I speak to somebody else this way at some time and then we just feel bad and I think that sometimes that can come out.

But that is why. We're here, there is a gap in knowledge and there is a gap in understanding and it is no one's fault that they don't know this. In fact, as we probably will visit at some point in our podcast talking about, um, it's purposeful. Yeah, it's purposeful. It's on purpose. We're all in information is, uh, is is withheld sometimes.

So, you know, if you find things that are challenging that you think I've just that is just brand new and very uncomfortable. you are not responsible for not not understanding things that you couldn't possibly have understood. you know, and so we want to. We want to create space for learning and the discomfort of learning and,and all those things too.

Absolutely. And to have those conversations, I've learned so much. I have this little army of adoptees now from social media, which is such an odd thing. But it's been so, so helpful in my parenting because I have a variety of perspectives that I can hear, I can ask people questions, people that understand what my child's experiences and that is so, so rare.

I mean, adoptees are what, 2 percent of the population. So, even though there are, everything's different, there are some things that are universally connecting. Right? And so when you get the big picture, and you have kind of a big picture understanding of some things, then you can apply that to more specific circumstances in a way that, like, makes sense and individualized.

That information for your own kids, your own family, your own, you know, I learned things. I told you earlier. I learned something today. I'm 46 years old. I'm in this work. And even then I was like, huh? Totally thought that was just a personality quirk. But no,

a foster parent talking about how, you know, you have to do things differently. She doesn't do things the same with foster kids as she would. And 1 thing is. For holidays, she doesn't do surprise gifts. They all go out and they pick their gifts, their teenagers, and they know what's coming.

And it talks about the discomfort of the unknown and the expectation of gratitude and gladness. And then there's that pressure that you respond correctly and all these things. And so, as I was. Watching and hearing this conversation that so many other people have, and I was like, is this why I've hated surprise parties my entire life?

I have hated surprise parties my entire life. My brother and I, the 1 of my brothers, who was the oldest, we would find all the gifts at holidays. We would wait till our parents were gone. We would unwrap them, see what they were, wrap them back up, put them back in the hiding place. And we honestly could enjoy.

Christmas more knowing what was coming and, you know, we were, we were a lot of, Hyper vigilance nervous systems in our house. I'm like, I just thought that was a funny story of things. We didn't wear kid turns out. It's 1 of those things, but it happens all the time and it will help you. If you're a parent, hopefully, it helps you understand your own children better.

if you are a spouse, if you are a social worker you're a doctor. If you're a teacher, no matter who you are, you go, okay, just would not have seen that. But it does make sense and often adoptees really do need the support of their community to make sense of themselves because adoptees are sometimes really disconnected from their own feelings about things too.

So.community support is what's good and hopefully we can create more of that. Absolutely. And if people have any questions that they want to pose to us on our podcast, you guys can reach out to us. At harper hyphen chapel. Dot com. Okay. And we will put that in our notes as well.

You can email us any questions you have there. If you want Sarah to address them, we will take all of your questions about open adoption. If you're struggling with something, and obviously anonymously, we will not share any details of children or their families on here. But if you need a little support, hopefully we can branch out that community of support that I've been so fortunate to receive from the adoptee community.

All right. This is fun. I'm excited. I hope people engage. We get to engage back in these conversations because we think that's really valuable. Absolutely. And also, before I forget, I think we have an upcoming course for November. Yeah. So, if you're interested in that, we will be sharing some details about that as well.

And our show notes. introducing the myths and adoption. So we're going to talk about 4 kind of just starting port main myths. talk about the realities behind those. because just like us, we thought we knew that we thought we knew. Yeah. No, 1 did 1. All right, well, thank you for joining.

I look forward to seeing you guys. Soon next time.