Be Your Own CEO: Owning the Opportunity with Dawn Richard

Real independence in music starts with owning what you create. In this episode of Taking Care of Your Music Business, Jamie Dominguez of The MLC sits down with Dawn Richard —visionary artist, entrepreneur, songwriter, and multi-hyphenate creative. Dawn rose through Danity Kane and Dirty Money before building an acclaimed independent career, with sync placements ranging from Adult Swim to FIFA and Madden, an admin deal with Kobalt, and a seat on the Recording Academy's New York board. Recorded live at NOLA Music Con in New Orleans, this conversation digs into rights, royalties, and resilience — and what it really takes to be your own CEO. 

Dawn shares the hard lessons that shaped her path, from signing contracts to negotiating for her own masters and fighting for fair splits. She and Jamie explore why diversifying your revenue streams matters, how the right IPI numbers and accurate metadata can unlock real opportunities, and how The MLC works to collect the streaming mechanical royalties you've earned.  

Watch all our full episodes on YouTube here and learn more about The MLC and our mission to ensure songwriters and music publishers receive their mechanical royalties from streaming and download services in the U.S. accurately and on time here. 

Transcript

[00:00:00] Welcome to Taking Care of Your Music Business, brought to you by the Mechanical Licensing Collective, also known as the MLC. In this podcast, we'll dive deep into the heart of the music industry, exploring how to get paid as a creative, making sure that you're receiving all the royalties you deserve.

We'll also dive into building a sustainable career, sharing strategies and best practices that creators can use to achieve long-term success. Join us as we bring you interviews with top songwriters and music executives who share their personal journeys and professional wisdom on thriving in the business, all while making a living.

So get ready for some real talk about navigating the music industry. Don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode, and be sure to catch all of our full episodes on YouTube. Welcome back to the MLC's podcast, Taking Care of Your Music Business. In this episode, we're bringing you a special fireside chat, Rights, Royalties, and Resilience, a conversation about what it really means to be your own CEO as a creator.

I'm joined by visionary artist and entrepreneur Don Richard live from NOLA [00:01:00] Music Con as we explore creative independence, understanding your rights, and how songwriters and artists can turn streaming into sustainable income Hi, friends. What's going on, y'all? I love New Orleans. I'm so happy to be here.

My name is Jamie Dominguez, and, uh, I'm here with the MLC, the Mechanical Licensing Collective. Do y'all know about the MLC? Has anyone heard of us? Yeah. Okay, good, 'cause we're all- we're all over your lanyards, so I hope you know by now. Um, but, uh, I'm so happy and excited because we have the fabulous Dawn Richard.

Do you say Richard? It's Richard, yeah. Okay, good. That's how I've been saying it. No, that's good. I just wanted to make sure. Um, and she's gonna share her incredible journey as a songwriter, um, and an entrepreneur, and just a multi-hyphenate baddie- Aw, I'll take it ... um, at that I, I [00:02:00] find extremely inspiring, and, um, your, your story is so important.

So we're gonna share all of that. We have a Dawn double header today 'cause she's- I'm back to back ... got back to back sessions. But your next one is gonna be focusing more on, I think, your songwriting craft and- And advocacy, yeah. Advocacy. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So we're gonna just get into the biz- Yeah, let's do it

and, and, um, talk about your journey 'cause it's so important. But, um, I'll just do a quick little PSA about the MLC and get that out of the way 'cause it's, it is important. Mm-hmm. And, um, you know, for those of you who, um, are songwriters, it's extremely important because it's another way you mer- you make money, you know?

And, and making money's important. It's not the sexiest, uh, sexiest topic. It's not necessarily why you get into songwriting, but making a living doing what you love and making money while doing it is, is sexy, right? Mm-hmm. I think it's sexy. I think it's sexy. Yeah. Um, so we are, [00:03:00] um, a nonprofit organization.

We came about after they passed the Music Modernization Act. Um, the US Copyright Office designated us to collect your streaming and mechanical royalties. So what that means is every time your music is streamed on a platform like Apple Music or Spotify or Amazon Music, any platform in the US that is streaming your songs, you are entitled to receive royalties from that, from those performances.

And this is on the publishing side. So as a songwriter, it's really important that you register with the MLC so you can collect your royalties. Um, if you have a publishing deal or an administration deal, then they will be collecting on your behalf, so you don't need to register directly with us. But I encourage all of you, we have this new, new part of our website called the Songwriter Hub, where you can create an [00:04:00] account, and you can actually take a look at your catalog.

So let's, let's start from the beginning, um, and your days, you know, with making the band and how that all came about. Um, once you sort of became a member of Danity Kane Well, were you writing songs at the time? Was that, was that part of, part of the deal when you entered into the, to that situation? That's a great question.

Okay, so I'll give you the, the, the short version of h- how my journey is. In New Orleans, I was already a writer. My father is Frank Richard from Chocolate Milk, which is a '70s funk band that is really popular here in New Orleans. If you know the song Groove City, and you have not heard it, you should hear it.

It's awesome, and my dad wrote it. He wrote many of the songs from Chocolate Milk, and he's also the lead singer. Shout out to you, Dad. I love you. Um, but in that, um, I... when I decided I wanted to do music, because music wasn't the first choice. Uh, my [00:05:00] parents are both educators as well, so academia in the home was, "Music is cute, but you go be a doctor or lawyer."

Like, that was the, the, the consensus. But I, when I decided I wanna do music, I started writing immediately. So my first album, Angelique, is my middle name, um, was written by me and my dad. And I was already writing here in New Orleans. I was trying all the different things to be able to move in New Orleans, but I had exhausted all possibilities here, and I was a pop electro girl in New Orleans.

There was no space for a girl like me, and I was different, and everyone knew it, but I, it didn't stop me. I would, you know, be in between Webbie and Hot Boy Ronaldo, and my little pop moment would pop right in between. It didn't make any sense in the programming, but it worked, right? Um, but I was writing.

When Making the Band happened, there was no, uh, shows coming here. New Orleans wasn't popular. We had No Limit. We had Hot Boys. We didn't have... We, we had Teej and Moses, [00:06:00] the, but the most pop we had was Britney Spears from Kentwood, Louisiana, right? So no one was coming here. I had to go to either Orlando or Atlanta to try out for a show.

Before I got in the line, they gave us a contract. I repeat, before I got in the line, they said, "In order for you to try out, you had to sign a contract for your publishing and your la- ra- la- ra- and your, and your record label." Exactly. Did you even know what that meant? No, I'm ma- I'm 18, 19 years old. We don't get shots, and here is a shot.

I was dancing in the NBA as a Honeybee at the time, now the Pelicans. What was my options? S- keep working the circuit in New Orleans as a pop girl in a, in a, in a rap Bayou-centric world, or get the opportunity to maybe have the opportunity of a lifetime. So you sign it. I made the band. Yay. But the reality is you've signed your entire journey away, right?

Not only did I [00:07:00] sign as, myself into a label, I was signed to a thing called Janice Combs Publishing, which was at the time Puff's mom's name, and I was under a publishing name. So I would now get on a label, and I ha- had my public, my... as a songwriter, my publishing would already be on something that I had no power over.

It's pretty incredible how this works in the business, but that's a real thing. So that's how I got into it. But when we got in the group, they didn't want us to write. They were like, "You're gonna do the show, and we're gonna give you all the tools, and you're not gonna write," because no label wants your first artist to be a great writer, right?

No. We wanna control it We would then, as a girl group, sell insane numbers because of the show. They didn't even think we would sell. They said, "We're only gonna ship out 100,000 copies 'cause y'all not gonna do better than that." We sold that in a day, so then they had to hurry up and figure that out. We would then go and be number one, and then we said, "If we do a second album, w- all we [00:08:00] ask is could we write?"

We, we, we were writers. He then said, "Well, if you write..." Puff would say, "If you write a song, I'ma pick to see who's the better writer. All y'all just write some songs and submit it." And of that, only my songs were picked. Mm. And so I would then go on to write on the second album, which would be Welcome to the Dollhouse.

And did you receive writing credit for, for those songs? We got writing credit, as in our names in, in the, on the album, but, uh, the royalties would come later because we were signed under Janice Combs Publishing, so we wouldn't see... It was just crazy, right? We wouldn't see the royalties because it wasn't coming to us in that way.

And so as a artist who had been a writer, who had come from my father, I knew that that, that didn't make sense, right? We were writing, but we weren't seeing the money, and I started to question, "Well, what is publishing in this space, and how do I figure out how to get paid?" Because as of right now, we weren't getting our publishing.

[00:09:00] Everything was going to and through Janice Combs Publishing. So you're not seeing any publishing money. I mean, well, you are, but- We're seeing it. It ain't coming... Yeah Yeah. Because this is the, this is the other part of the industry that's, you know, there's a lot of gatekeeping. It's brutal. It's brutal.

Yeah, a lot of gate- keeping, no transparency. Nope. So by the time the money actually gets to you- Mm-hmm, it's filtered through many different people, and here's the fun part about writing, and I'm being sarcastic There are other elements to it, right? When you have a label that says, "You're a writer, but also I wanna pick the producers" and if you get big producers, then you start to talk about splits.

So you can write a whole song, but then if you're writing with Pharrell or Swizz Beatz or someone like that, you get your, your splits back and you're like, "What? I thought I was 100%. Now it's who's, who's Veronica and who's Billy and who..." There's like 95 people that are a part of that that you didn't even know of, so the splits get really interesting, so they start shaving down your numbers.

So now you [00:10:00] have to realize as a writer you gotta fight for your splits. You gotta fight for your, your space in your writing so that when you do get your royalties and your residuals, it's something that you can live off of. So these are things that I'm learning that I didn't know. You know, I'm writing with the girls and I'm like, "Ooh, I'm writing" but then I'm realizing, oh, Rodney Jerkins is the producer.

So, yikes. So let, let's go back to that- Yeah, yeah ... because this is something that's super important. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, I, my days in my career have always been with the songwriter. Mm-hmm. I, before, before the MLC I was at SESAC for 19 years and, and on the creative side- Mm-hmm ... and was constantly, you know, having these conversations with them about the importance of, of advocating for yourself and fighting for your splits.

Um, and making sure the splits are even negotiated and agreed upon- Beforehand ... before the song comes out. Exactly. So I get this question all the time because I think as creators it's not, you know, natural for you to wanna have this conversation in the studio. Mm-hmm. It's awkward. It's [00:11:00] uncomfortable. How did, how did you navigate that at the time?

Did... I mean, you went through a lot before you got to that point, I'm sure, but- Yeah, we, we couldn't. Y- then again, we couldn't have, we couldn't negotiate anything. It, it was, it was not that. But I can lean into when I got to my independence, I had so much know-how because it was so incredibly gnarly. You know, like, every time something would happen, I'd be like, "I got this.

No. Hard nos here, hard nos here." When I did get to a place, immediately after we have a session, I'll connect with my producer, and already I'm developing a relationship with my producer. It's not just a producer. I'm gonna know the producer that I'm working with. I'm curating that experience every time we talk.

We're developing a relationship so that we're talking beyond just the song. Yeah. And then I'm also... At the time, I didn't have a manager or a team, so I was playing both avenues of that. I had a separate email for my manager. I was separate, talking differently when I was communicating- ... with the team [00:12:00] of the management to act like I was a different person to be able to ne- negotiate it.

But I was doing that during the sessions as we were building- Mm ... so that by the time we finished our record, we knew where each person stood. We knew what points were. I didn't even know what points were before. I knew what it under- I, I, I knew what the con- the, the understanding of mastering was, and my biggest thing was not only ma- doing the publishing part of it but also the sync part of it.

Mm-hmm. So we were already talking about, "Okay, and if this gets synced, this is who we're gonna have a contact for. This is how many points, and this is who's gonna own the masters for that." So I knew by the time I was finishing that song and it was going to the mix, we knew we had all, all of that squared away beforehand.

Even registering the song while- I was registering the song when the title came. Like, when I was writing the song, I was registering the song. So we're doing that all in the process. So while I'm sitting in the studio writing, I'm recording, and then when he's polishing and I'm at the, I'm doing the, the corporate work there so that we know this.

And I think that transparency [00:13:00] went a long way with me, which is why I was able to work every album I did independently with a different producer and it be beautiful. I've worked with never one album the same producer- Mm ... and that's very difficult to do and manage your sound and keep your sound. Um, and each one was critically acclaimed.

Each one a different, completely different, but it was because of that transparency and learning from the craziness of the beginning of the mainstream journey that I had that I refused to make the same mistake that I had had prior. So though I, I have to take that L, and I took many going into that mainstream journey, I refused to take those Ls as an independent artist.

So le- And an independent songwriter. Yeah. I mean, that's... So how did you-- what was the turning point when you figured out that- Ownership- Mm-hmm ... is, like, invaluable to you- Mm-hmm ... in, and, and, and surviving as a, as an artist and a creator. What was the turning point in that journey when you were like, "Okay, I gotta do this on my own terms.[00:14:00] 

I gotta own my rights. I wanna do everything independently"? Well, there, I mean, we can't go into when that, you know. Um, it, it got bad for me in my, in my mainstream journey, and I had to make a choice to leave, to leave it. But one of the larger things, and I never really told this to anybody, so I'll give this gem here, um, 'cause everyone publicly knows how bad it was.

It's obvious, right? But beyond that, I started doing mathing. The math w- was mathing, y'all. Like, I started looking at, like, okay, if Danny Kane sold four million copies, he's out, right? And if I wrote the... I started mathing it. Mm. And then I was like, "This isn't making s- if I'm making..." And then I was looking at my account, and I was like, "Mm, I don't like th- this," right?

And that's when I realized I can't blame anyone but me that I'm not raising [00:15:00] hell over this. You know what I mean? I knew I couldn't raise hell to that person because God forbid. But what I did know is, again, the next time I do this, if I can get out of this, I negotiated my own masters. Wow. That was my biggest thing.

It was if I could get out of this, I'll, if I can come out with owning my, my, my, my music, I'll leave broke. Leave broke. That was important to me. As a songwriter, I knew. I was looking at the numbers, and the math wasn't mathing. And I was like, "I have to be able to live off of my writing." Mm-hmm. That was the turning point, and that moving forward would then be the compass for me when I moved as an independent artist, as a brand, was I, I wanna be able to be a one-stop in p- in my syncing.

A- and they were talking about that the last, yesterday about being a one-stop, where someone, and that means they can go to you directly. They know y- it's easy for you to get your sync. Easy. Like, it's, I [00:16:00] wanted to be that, and I wanted to be able to create music as a songwriter where I was able to negotiate my splits.

I was able to negotiate how I wanted to move with the producer. I wanted all of that autonomy 'cause I had none of it, and that was the dream. And that turning point would become the n- it navigated the compass for my career, and it would make my independent journey one of the most, um, incredible journeys and really unorthodox for a lot of people.

It's just so unconventional because it would lead me to Adult Swim, it would lead me to syncing, and it would lead me to curating a, a, um, a career that I don't think I ever saw, and I don't think anyone did, for myself. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that, and that's something that I think, um, is so important to note, is that you have multiple business verticals now.

Specifically as a songwriter. And, and, and b- it all, the core of that is, the foundation of that is owning- Ownership ... the masters. It's own- it's ownership and being able to [00:17:00] understand not just owning it, but all the avenues and way in which you can make money. Because what they'll limit you as a songwriter is they'll say, "You gotta get into those, that old-fashioned concept of, you know how you win is you gotta meet with 737 producers a day, and then try to make that hit.

And, and then, and if you get the hit, then you get paid." There are so many avenues. Jingles, commercials, gaming, syncing. Um, one of the coolest ways I made money, y'all, as a p- as an artist, as a songwriter was Adult Swim cultivated really interesting music. That was one of the places you could find the cool kids, right?

Like, Flying Lotus was one of my favorite artists, and that's how I found Flying Lotus, was through Adult S- e- All the nerds in the back are like, "Yeah." You know you was watching. You a geek, I'm a geek. But I'm saying that's how I found it. You know what I mean? It's the truth. Like, I mean, also Thundercat, you know what I m- the, the

Like, yeah, serpent with the feet. Like, these were, like, cool artists that, like, I found through Adult Swim. Mm-hmm. And what I found was I j- I was trying to figure out autonomy for myself as a songwriter, and no one would touch [00:18:00] me. I was blackballed. Once I left Bad Boy, no one would touch me. Puff blocked that.

So what happened was I, I w- what they, what mainstream didn't know about was the, the cool kids, was the, the nerds. A- and I, that was me. So I went to Adult Swim and said, "I'd love to license this music," and they... I was making really unorthodox music that a girl from a girl band would never make. They was just like, "Well, why are you making this music?"

And I was like, "It's so me." And they thought it was cool, and so they gave me a shot. I made 10 grand in, like, five seconds just working with them. I was like, "Ooh, this money is..." And then the residuals I was getting, I was like, "Ooh," 'cause it would, it would play on the bumps at night on Adult Swim. Yeah. So I was like, "Ooh, this feels real good."

And I started doing that often, and it was m- I was making more money than I made in Danity Kane, and I couldn't understand it. I couldn't fathom that when we were selling more. But it was because I had the ownership. Mm-hmm. And then I was able to teach myself to animate, and then try to [00:19:00] ask if I could animate on s- like, as an independent contractor, and then I would put my music on those bumps.

So I was getting paid twice. And then they would give royalties for that. So not only was I getting royalties for the music, but I was getting royalties for the actual animated bump No- if no one could have told me that would be my re- like, that would be my rent. That would sustain me. And that's what I mean by that's just one way.

Like, being able to be on FIFA or Madden, like, gaming. No one said it- Yeah ... but gaming became... And this was places that the mainstream wasn't looking. I wasn't getting blackballed there 'cause they wasn't looking over there. Right. And before you knew it, people didn't tell you gaming, that play- they bo- that's all.

It's like, and if you get on, like, a playlisted gaming where it's a game that comes out, like Madden every... You're winning 'cause they love you. Once they love you and it's easy- You're in ... and you're a one stop, you're in. Yeah. And then if you look at someone like an MLC and you look at these Avenue Sound Exchange MLC are these places that protect [00:20:00] you.

The MLC was godsend for me because all those streaming little platforms that you don't know about, you start seeing that money just roll on in and then you realize, "Okay, this is what ownership looks like. This is what controlling my songwriting platforms c- th- this is what it looks like." And then you can go to, like, your publishing companies if you want to, 'cause you don't have to.

You can- you don't have to even sell it if you don't want, but if you choose to, then you can go to your- Mm-hmm ... your, your publishing companies and say, "I know that I normally would sell my publishing, but maybe I wanna do an admin deal and this is the reason why. Look at my worth over here." Mm-hmm. "Look at all my numbers."

Mm-hmm. And then you can up negotiate with somebody because you're a first-timer it wouldn't normally get, but because your numbers look so damn good, they might even give you an admin deal because of the amount of numbers you're having go, or what you're making within your, with something like the MLC. So it gets really fun.

That's to me the sexy stuff. It is sexy and- When that check comes in looking good. Yeah. Who doesn't love a check? Yeah. Money you make in your sleep. In your sleep. That is, that's [00:21:00] like- In your sleep ... that's the dream. Yeah. You know? That's how you, how it works. Mailbox check. Huh? Mailbox check. Mail- come on.

There you go. Mailbox money. Boop boop. It's not so much mailbox money anymore, it's, it's direct deposit and- Right? Venmo and whatever it is. Exactly. It's the good stuff. It's the good stuff. Yeah. Um, instantaneous money. Yeah. Um, but do you have a publishing partner or an admin partner? I do. Um, a crazy story with that I told you in the back is Kobalt.

Um, mind you, no one would sign me. Again, I had all these songs and I couldn't get, couldn't get a, couldn't get a dream. Um, but in that, this is... I also say this to say for songwriters, sometimes your journey won't be immediate. You'll meet a publisher and maybe your time isn't right now. You'll pitch and maybe they'll turn you down I knew Kobalt 15 years ago, and I had a song, um, called Bulletproof that I w- was writing while I was doing, uh, D- uh, Dirty Money.

Uh, I didn't know this. I didn't... I found this out 15 years later, but Gaga and Madonna were [00:22:00] fighting for the song. Did not know this. Um, and Puff called and stopped it. Nipped it. Didn't know that. But 15 years later, my independent journey was doing so well that they were like, "We'd love to give you an admin deal."

And I said, "Oh, my God." And I said, "Youse crazy. I went to y'all, and y'all didn't wanna sign me." And then she said, "Well, let me tell you why." And it was so wild to me that- I didn't have that shot then, but it wasn't for me then. For whatever reason, it wasn't time. But I got it on my own terms. On my own independent journey, I was able to get an admin deal negotiated for it to work for me, um, and that was through Kobalt.

So 15- it took me 15 years to get to the place that I was supposed to be at. And even though it was stopped, it wasn't, because God is such a good God that it came on His time. But yes, I do, and it's with Kobalt, and it's been a good, uh, collaboration, and most of my, um, m- journey has come from the wor- the nerd world.

Yeah. Well, and that- The, the, the gaming and the, and the Adult Swim and the, and the syncs. It's b- [00:23:00] most of my journey has ... Like, my wins have been coming from, um, the world that most people wouldn't think. Yeah, that's beautiful. That's really exciting. Which means that, you know, your streaming can come from many different

You can make ... Songwriters have so much opportunity. It's just the labels and sometimes even your publishers don't tell you. And okay, maybe they're not suppo- maybe they're supposed to, but even if they don't, I don't think that's a blaming thing. I think you need to then say, "Okay, well then I'll do it myself."

You become your own cheerleader, and you find your ways, and then when you're shining beautifully, then they'll come. And don't take it personally. This is the game. Mm-hmm. Don't take it personally. Let them come in when you're winning, but either way you're winning. Long as you know that, long as you know your worth, and when you get your things in your places, when it's time to renegotiate, your shoulders are back because the, the numbers are numbering for you.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, and I mean, I think that's, uh, you know, something that gets lost is that you, you're part of the, the conversation. You have the leverage as the songwriter. They wouldn't be a business, they [00:24:00] wouldn't have, you know, the platform if they didn't have all of, all of the IP, right? Mm-hmm. Correct.

You, you own that. You own it. You wrote it. Mm-hmm. So, um, understanding how it all works in the back end- Mm-hmm ... is so important because then you can, you can be an activist. You can ad- you can advocate for yourself. You can fight for what, what is yours- Mm-hmm ... rightfully. But, you know, this is like, it should be collaborative, and I think that was an important point you made about having an administrator- Mm-hmm

that it's a great collaboration. Mm-hmm. Because you're not just, like, letting them take the car out for a spin and never coming back. Mm-hmm. Like, you actually are making sure there's tune-ups and making sure the car's getting changed and- It's like anything el- exactly. That's a great, that's a great analogy.

You, you have to ... It's not just the ... You, it ... You have to cultivate and, and build and touch and get things fixed, and you need that team. You need that support system. And I would encourage songwriters, again, don't be ... Community is key The more songwriters, the more [00:25:00] producers, the more, um, administrators you have in your corner, like looking out for your holes, because some things you can see, but some things you can't catch.

Like, the MLC catches things I can't see. I could be all the administrator eye in the world, and trust me, my manager is in the building right now and I know, like, I feel so bad 'cause sometimes I be over-administrating. Like, I gotta, like, pull back a bit, but it's because I'm so used to doing it. But the good thing about a team, and I will go down this hill all- I will, like, die on this hill.

I hate saying that 'cause I don't wanna die, but I'm just saying. I'm saying that to say t- collective, having people have, be your left and your right and your back is crucial because you can't catch everything. Yeah. You may think you that person, but doing it on your own, I... Somebody in the last one was like, "I'm, I'm my own.

I'm d- I'm doing everything on my own." I was that person. I am that person. You cannot, you can only go s- ceiling. Ceiling. But when you have things like the MLC, when you understand it, learn everything, but then get the team around you, a good one that fights for you in that way, and they'll find [00:26:00] every hole.

And before you know it, you'll be making money from corners of the world you didn't even know. You'll be like, "Vietnam-" "... I'ma stream it over here. Let's get it. All right, two cents." And let that come on in, in, you know, like, 'cause you be seeing it. You know what I'm talking about- Yeah ... 'cause you be seeing.

Sometimes I get a check for, like, 50 cent, and I'm like, "Woo," for that one little 50 cent. But it adds up. It all adds up. It adds up. It all adds up. It's like h- finding your little stashes of money- ... in all these little corners. Yeah, it's like you'll get a $2,000 check, and then you'll get, like, a 16 cent check, and you're like- The jacket you didn't wear- I'll take it

since last winter- ... or you've put it on, you're like, "Oh, there's $10 in this pocket." Yeah, it works. All those things work, but it also gives you, sometimes it's even not about the money, it's about the feeling of, I get to see that. I'm re- it's a record of me knowing it's moving. The work I'm doing is moving, and that just gives you incentive to say, "Okay, I gotta do bigger, get bigger.

Let me go home, let me go, let me try more things." It's just inspiration to know that the residual i- upke- it's happening. Right. That, that you're getting it from these different places. Yeah. Right. And how do you, um, [00:27:00] make sure that you're not leaving any money on the table? Are there ways that you sort of...

What, yeah, what are your, what are your sort of, like, tools and resources? How did you, how do you stay on top of all this s- how do you stay up to date and, and learn? Mm-hmm. 'Cause this industry's constantly evolving and changing, and every, I learn things every single day that I'm like, h- I had no idea. You know?

Mm-hmm. It's, it's, there's too much. There's too much to learn all the time, and there's no one place to find all this information. So how do you, as a creator, learn? I'm a techie. I'm a tech girl. Um, I'm constantly figuring out what's, what's evolving and what's coming out. I also have, again- I'm, I'm never afraid to ask questions.

I'm a cold call, I'm a cold email girl. Like, I, I like to, to meet people who are doing innovative things and figure out what I'm, what I'm missing. I'm also a huge fan of boards. Um, and you know this, like I, I, I... Like if I did, for example, I didn't really see myself at the [00:28:00] GRAMMYs when I was singing in the Recording Academy when I wanted to be a part of dance music as a Black woman.

And I didn't wanna complain about it 'cause I felt like it wasn't, it, it, that's just the reality of it, right? So I wanted a seat at the table. So then I went from the bottom up and I became a member of the Recording Academy, and then I got a seat at the table. I met those people. I love those people. Now I'm on the board of the Recording Academy, and I'ma get in that room and I'ma say, I'm saying- Thank you.

That's weird. I don't need a clap for that. I'm saying that to say, I, if you want the change and you wanna know more, you have to... Don't blame anyone, become a part of it and then learn to shift it. Now I realize I love the Recording Academy and only, the only reason why it's not there yet is because there are not e- enough people like, that look like us.

So if we get in there, we can create the change, right? It's the same thing with writing and songwriting, right? I didn't know about the MLC, uh, but I was able to like, um, when I was researching about royalties and mechanical, uh, royalties and what it is, the MLC popped up first. So I like did the research and found out about it.

Same thing with [00:29:00] sound ex- SoundExchange. Same thing with, um, uh, all the avenues, uh, with Kobalt there. Sony has, um, a, a port- the port- the portals that they have. Exactly. Like, there are many different... Then I went into blockchain and went down a rabbit hole about STEM- ... and what that is, and some of it works, some of it doesn't, right?

But you're, I, I, I go in trying to find out what works, and then I, if I have questions, I'll then meet with people and have like severe meetings, like one-on-one Zooms. "What is this? How does this work?" And then when I don't know that, I go to my management team and they'll say, "Oh, you know what? I f- I heard this is that," and then I'll talk to my like favorite producers and be like, "What are y'all on right now?"

I'll even go to tech conferences in music to see what's the next thing that's coming in four years. Some of those things will come to fruition like startups, some don't. But the point is, I wanna know where music is going and how it's paying its artist. That's my... Because that concerns us. And if we are not, not just looking at what's [00:30:00] happening now, but what's going to be in the future, we've already clipped our wings.

Mm-hmm. So for me, places like the MLC is going to be the standard. That's gonna be the base level. So now I'm already looking for what will be the next thing that the MLC, MLC will come up with and other collectives that are creating similar opportunities because autonomy and ownership will never... That, that need for that will never change.

The demand for ownership, even in data, is key. So that will never shift, and that's how I find it. It... I am a constant person trying to find the research of what's going to get me paid, and safely. This-- Like, safely. How do I protect my data and my, my music, and how do I get paid from it? That's my two that I'm-- I gotta constantly figure out, because that's the way we g- we survive as creatives.

Our ownership is paramount, 'cause the moment they take that away, we in trouble. Yeah. And if they take it away, the money goes with it. So, like, those are my [00:31:00] two. Like, if... How do I make sure I'm always ahead of knowing, and what are those platforms and those spaces? And sometimes I'm trying to figure out, how do I build my own?

To be a part the, to a part of the, the, the, the next level, right? And that's the fun part about being in tech is, like, maybe I can build my own app or something. But the reality is that's what happens, is you try to find ways in which you make sure you know all the avenues your m- your, your b- your business, your songwriting, your brand can make money.

You're a woman after my own heart. Oh, yeah. I wanna take you everywhere with me. You'll make my job so much easier. And I want to. I want, I, uh, only by trial and error. Like, I didn't, I didn't wake up and be like, "Ah." Yeah. It was brutal. It takes work. I lost a lot of money. It's hard work. Yeah, I lost- It's hard work

it's hard work. You lose a lot. A lotta Ls, but those Ls turn into wins, right? Like the Saints right now, you know what I mean?

Hopefully this will lead to whatever it is, I, you know, maybe that first draft next time will get us something good. But I [00:32:00] lo- But Saints ... there are so many thi- so many things. I love what you said in there, like, you, y- You're laughing, but you know. Yeah. Well, yes. Every, I mean, it resonates. Surely. Yeah, we know.

It, it resonates. Hopefully we lead to a win. But that's, you know, I think there's something else you said. Um, there's a few things I wanna, I wanna sort of, like, e- put exclamation points next to. Um, the activism advocacy role that you have to play in your career. Mm. You're now a member of, of the Recording Academy- Recording Academy

on the board. I'm also on the board in New York. Like, you ha- the change has to come from within the community. It has to. All hands on deck. Everyone has to participate. You can't complain about the system and not actively try to change the system. No, you can't. You know? And, and you are, like, embodying that, and I love that we're, you know, this is, like, why we do this.

Because we're trying to get everybody amped up. We want everybody to feel inspired, to walk out of this room, to do your part. Everybody has to do their part. Yeah, 'cause it's not just about you. Like, I can't go and [00:33:00] be like, "I hated being with Puff, and I hate" ... and then I don't change that. Yeah. Like, who am I if I say I went through all that bad stuff and then I don't help an artist never go through that again?

That's whack. Like, that's whack to go through all of that and then say, "I just wanna make money and get outta here." No, I wanna change the way... I don't want that girl to ever get in the line again and have to go through that. I want her to be able to go and look at that line and say, "I got options. I don't really have to do that line because I own my own music.

I own my own" ... Like, I want that. That's the difference. And if I can get one artist to feel that, it was worth me getting in that dumbass line. Yeah. Because though I'm grateful for my journey, it was a wild one. Wild one. But I, that was my story. I wanna see if I can give somebody else a different one, and the only way to do that is to not complain about it.

It's to change it. Change it. And you gotta shift it at the table. Mm-hmm. At the table. And so, and the table don't come easy. They don't want nobody at that table. That table is, some of that [00:34:00] table is gatekept. But But it's changing ... it's changing. It is cha- And, and it's because people like us are on the inside- We refuse to come in

and we bring in more people. Yes. And soon you have a very diverse- It's changing. I believe ... more equitable- Yes, yes ... utopia that we're gonna create. I'm just kidding. I'm ki- No, but it's real. It's happening. I'm, 'cause I'm looking, I, n- i- I s- it's changing. It is. My team, my people are changing it, and I'm looking next to them, I'm like, "Ooh, this looks so good," and the conversations are getting better, and the leaders are looking flyer.

Mm-hmm. 'Cause I, you know, at first it was like, y'all look... I don't belong in this room. I mean, look, look at us. It's a lot of khaki in this room. We're sitting here right now. Yes. They be in that khaki with that blazer. The little blazer and khaki. Yeah. But that now it's looking good. It's got fringe and boots.

I know. I'm like, okay, we're, we're shifting. And studs and piercings. Yeah. We got piercings and tattoos. Oh. I'm like, okay. It's looking a little better now. I know. So yeah, it's shifting. And the f- You know, we're here. We're, we're extremely, you know, [00:35:00] diverse and different- Yeah ... and from different backgrounds.

Yeah. And two women sitting on the stage talking about this journey, and it's- Yeah ... it's, it's- It's different. I love it ... it, it means something. Mm-hmm. Right? It's, it's a sign. And you can be a part of it too. You can be a part of it too, and it doesn't matter whether you're signed or if you are doing it alone, lone.

Y- you can do it. It's possible. Is it hard work? Hell yes. Is it difficult? Will you get nos every damn day? But that yes when it come, ooh, it look good. And you appreciate it, and you don't take it for granted, and that's the part that is worth it And so community is so important- Yeah ... supporting each other- Mm-hmm

educating each other, sharing the information. Um, I'm gonna go back to something nerdy because- We love the nerd ... we love nerdy. Um, you talked about data. Yeah. This is something that we're always trying to drive home to all the creators because it- if you wanna get paid, you have to... The metadata part is- Mm[00:36:00] 

non-negotiable. Mm, mm-mm. Because, you know, now we're, everything, everybody wants to talk about AI- Mm-hmm ... blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? But what is so fundamental, technology's gonna keep advancing. How you get paid is always gonna go, it's always gonna go back to the metadata attached to- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm

whatever that recording is. Mm-hmm. Um, so let's talk about that a little bit. Mm-hmm. Because, you know, just simple things, and I've seen it when I was at CSAC, um, you know, song registry, looking at s- people's song registrations and there's a misspelling or- Mm-hmm ... you know, um, little things like that. Mm-hmm.

Your... That's going to affect your entire future. Mm-hmm. Your entire future. Mm-hmm. One stupid little misspelling, right? Mm-hmm. Um, not having, you know, m- making sure your, the credits are right. Mm-hmm. You know, your, your share, your percentages- Mm-hmm ... making sure that everything lines up. All of these things. Do you, [00:37:00] um, do you manage that?

Like, I know you have an administrator, but- Mm-hmm ... the, at the same time, it's like- ... human error, data entry, like- I'm laughing because I'm going- I'm making an album right now, and my management team is here, and we're going through that right now. Ha. Lee, Reid laughed hard. No one gets a good... I try my best. I think, um, I have a great lawyer.

Um, again- I'm trying to learn from my mistakes. And so w- with, with my team, I just got new management, and me and my lawyer went through our... Do- we're doing it first. So I gave it all my information. We did it in a contract. I gave everything already done to my management team. So again, spelling names, split- splits, all of it.

We tried to give it to them all as one. That is... I know that the administrative part is just like, it's Rubik's Cube to, to creatives. We hate it. I promise you, if you do the work in your process, it [00:38:00] will, it will help you on the end part, right? And, and again, having your management team or an assistant or someone do it is always a great concept.

But if you can't do that, I inc- I implore you to, as you're doing it, talk to your producers. "What's your full name? What's your publishing company? You with BMI?" The conversations you're having in the studio, I know you not having that. I know y'all getting high, having y'all best life. Write that stuff down.

You know what I mean? I know, you know, you're smoking and you're like, "Oh, this is great. Is it..." But, but the administrative part needs to happen regardless. You got your laptop, you writing your lyrics just on the side while you there, get the information, get the name Get their publishing. What's your manager's name?

You have a contact? You have a lawyer? Because I think, like, those things because she is r- when I say... And I also, this is one of the things I think is important, your IPI number, like- Mm-hmm ... have that thing like it's your Social Security. That is your Social Security number as a songwriter. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah. Know that thing by heart. Have that thing in, like- Yeah ... right next to your your, uh, red, your c- your Blue Cross Blue Shield. [00:39:00] Yeah. It's true. It's so true, though. You laughing but I'm seri- I'm serious. Have it- Yeah ... know it on hand. That's right because once your name is, y- nobody cares about your name.

Once the song is, is in the Metaverse or whatever we, we were calling it now- Mm-hmm ... they don't care about your name. That's not who's getting paid. They care about your IPI number. The IPI, baby. Have that thing in there. That's all it is. And so then you know it, you know it by heart, you can facilitate it to others, and then every time...

It's so funny. When I was, this is a great story. No, y'all don't even know this. When I met Machine Drum, I did a, an album with Machine Drum. He's a really dope underground, uh, dance, um, uh, uh, DJ, incredibly, and producer. When I met him, we, we did our whole album V online. We didn't even see each other. It was just crazy.

And we were talking one day and, uh, he was a- and telling me about his cats, and I said, "Oh my God, your cat is so beautiful. What's your IPI number?" And he was like, "That is the most random text I've ever got." But I had gotten it immediately, [00:40:00] and from there he was like, "It's crazy. I will never forget you asked me that in the b- in beforehand."

Now I, I know his IPI more than I know anyone else's, and it would be so- be something that FIFA hit us for our song. I didn't even need him 'cause I knew all his information. So our FIFA deal went so fast that the next year we got him again. So we've had FIFA twice because I know Machine Drum IPI before I know mine, and it's so easy to move.

I think it's so important, especially if you have a producer you've worked with multiple times. If you know they name and you know they family, you should know they stuff. Mm-hmm. It's going to help you in the future, but that data, if you misspell or you miss it, it could determine whether you get paid on time, if you get the FIFA, if you get the sync.

Because nobody wants to deal with, um, you have a number wrong here, and we don't know who you're using or how many percentages is that? You, you lose the opportunity. They'll move on to the next. They'll move on to the next, so fa- 'cause you're competing against everyone. Right. Right. So [00:41:00] just understand data is just as, as important as the lyrics.

So right next to your lyrics, have the producer and the credits and even the, even if it's not the percentages yet but you kinda feeling it sorta kinda, put something there until you can navigate what it actually will be. And then put that there right. I do it every time. So I have my lyrics, the producer's name, per- splits, all in the same, like, writing notepad, like, on the sheet.

Move on to the next. The great thing is I never really work with multiple producers. When I'm working with my albums, I kinda stick to, like, one or two. But if you have multiple ones, get that thing there, and then you go to your lawyer and you'll say, "Hey, can you put up a contract with all of the splits and everything in one place?"

And then you say, "All right, it's already written down." So now your p- your, your, your team, they all know who getting what. Nobody's surprised. It's all written down in the, in the contract, and it's there. Then you say, "Hey, management team." When they say, "Hey, can you sen- " Send them everything, and they have it.

Keep that [00:42:00] thing, and, and if you really love administrative work, you can put that thing in a Dropbox. You can put that thing in Google Drive. You get real cute, you wanna put it in an Excel sheet. Now you're having some fun. Doesn't sound fun. It doesn't sound fun, but now that thing looks so pretty and organized and gorgeous, and now you don't ever have to look at that ugly-ass sheet again.

But it's there. And so when someone comes to you and they have a problem, you say, "Refer to." Leave me alone. I'm creating. Refer to that and now it's there and then you're, you're publishing. Everything is neat and then you become the artist that everybody wanna rock with because you so organized. Now, I'm saying that.

My team, I love you. I'm doing my best to be that these days, but I have been that for, for as long as I could try to. It gets messy. It's never gonna be perfect, but that's the aim. And I do feel like on my syncing side, I've been able to be that girl because I've been able to have that organization. Can we, can you just share [00:43:00] your worksheet, your template with everybody in this room and- Yeah, it, it-

they can just copy it ... they, it, it, you know. Yeah, you- Yes ... I, I would, I would love to do that for you. If you'd like me to, I can totally do that. We- we'll, we'll, we'll- Yeah ... we'll do it on an LP portal. We can like- I have a little Excel. But Google is my girl. Yeah. Yeah, Google. I've become an administrative team girl.

I don't... That was never my plan. I hate it. I also love my lawyer. She's f- helped me facilitate that a little bit better. But it is so attractive when you're able to keep that thing because it is not fun trying to seek out a producer who sometimes... 'Cause producers are, creatives are weird like that. I know one producer, he have his moments.

He's clean and then one day he decides he's not anymore and then I don't see him for nine months. And I can't get him. Hell of a producer, but he's that guy. He's that guy. You, and you, everybody's like, "Yeah, I know that guy. I know that produc-" You've had that producer. You don't want that. You don't want that 'cause that's your opportunity to be a part of something and you lose it because your producer said he don't wanna be clean for nine months.

Or he just said he's, you know, he's gone or he wants to leave. You don't want that journey. You wanna be able to have all those things so you don't [00:44:00] have to go find Philip in J- Joshua Tree in the, because he has no cell service. These are things you know. I mean, this is the truth. He's- Exactly. It's real.

He's on his ayahuasca. He's on his, or he's on his ayahuasca journey and- ... you know, he ain't able to be found. Then you're like, "Bro, we're trying to get a sync here. Where are you?" Yeah. I love it. It's real. Um. Yeah. One la- like- Yeah. Take, what's the biggest takeaway you want them all to leave with today? Like, if there's one or two things.

So I hate advice. That's the first thing I'ma say. I hate it, um, because nobody knows what they're doing. But number- What I will say is this. Nothing is exactly the same for each person. So when you're looking at these artists and you're saying, "I want, I want mine to go like that" or "I want a career like that" or "I want..."

That's not real Each person, like you over there, you could make it tomorrow and it just go for you. You over here might take 20 years [00:45:00] for you to get to the spot where you're getting. The point is for you to navigate and curate the way in which you wanna align your success, and then choose to decide what your success looks like.

Don't let anyone else tell you what that is. When you do that, you'll win because you're navigating how you see yourself, not what the world or what they're telling you it's supposed to be. And if you don't like what it looks like, become the person to change it. Shift it, and if they don't build it for you, build it your goddamn self and make it work for you.

An ecosystem is purposely there for you to create it. You can create your own ecosystem. If they not hiring you, hire your damn self and build it, and then hire all the people around you to create something that works for you. Yeah? Love it. Thank you so much. I'll be here in five more seconds. Thank you all for being here.

Join the MLC. Register if you're not registered already. Please, please, please, please, please, we have money for [00:46:00] you. Yes. Get it. It's true. It's true. Thanks so much for listening to Taking Care of Your Music Business. Don't forget, you can watch full video episodes on our YouTube channel, and make sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode.