Breaking Free: Choosing Yourself and Redefining Single Life After Divorce

Society often glorifies coupledom, but what about the joy and freedom of embracing single life? What happens when you choose your happiness over societal scripts? In this candid and uplifting episode, Mary chats with Marieke Nissly James about her decision to leave her marriage, raise two daughters as a single mom, and create a fulfilling life on her own terms. They dive into the societal pressures women face around coupledom, the transformative power of freedom, and the lessons Marieke’s strength has imparted to her daughters. If you’ve ever wondered what it truly means to thrive solo, this conversation is for you.

Here is a link to Dr. Bella DePaulo's website.

You can find her book, Single at Heart: The Power, Freedom, and Heart-Filling Joy of Single Life on Amazon and through all major booksellers.

Transcript

Mary

Hi and welcome to the show. My guest today is, weirdly, someone I know more about today than I did when we went through four years of high school together. Her name is Marieke Nissly James. As it happened, we connected through social media decades after high school, and as it seems to go with friends on social media, we see more of someone's everyday life than we ever did with most friends before the age of cell phones. I watch her posts and pics about all her life, adventures, concerts and clubs. A trip to her family routes in the Netherlands. Her pride in her daughters. Her weekend beach getaways with friends and her videos of her time with her young grandson. Her posts are unfailingly upbeat and often hilarious, and sometimes a bit spicy. So when I decided to explore the theme of being single in midlife, I knew I could get some great insights from Marieke. Although I have worked with couples as a therapist, marriage and family therapy was never my specialty. But working with clients who have become dissatisfied with their relationships is quite a common theme. And as a person who spent many years as a single person before my first marriage at 37, then a divorce at 47, I have always found the issue of relationships and singleness endlessly fascinating. I'll spare you the details for now, but even from a very young age, I sought out solitude. I rarely, if ever, get lonely and I treasure days when I can spend the day drifting and doing whatever I want. I think of being with myself as just as important as time with my partner. In fact, I miss myself when I don't get enough time and solitude, which thankfully my husband supports 100 per cent. I also have a rich network of friends and I'm often the one to reach out and connect. A similar trait to people who typically thrive as a single person. However, there is no doubt that our society applauds and rewards coupledom. I think pictures of my husband and me get more engagement on social media than anything else I might post. From our country's tax laws to medical rights, to the unwritten rules of our society, being part of a couple means you have achieved something important and regardless of what you achieve in your career, when you finally find the one and settle down, it's almost as if you finally arrived. But I don't believe all people that pair up truly want to do that. We're now in an age where women don't need a man to open a bank account or buy a house, something they could not do until 1974. Crazy, right? Women could not open a bank account, get a credit card or take out a home loan without a man cosigning the paperwork. So is it any surprise that most women married young out of necessity?

And is it any surprise that divorce among older adults is now at a higher rate than that of younger people? I recently read a book by Doctor Bella De Paulo called Single at Heart: The Power, Freedom and Heart-filling Joy of Single Life. Dr DePaulo, herself, has been intentionally single her entire life. I say intentionally because I would venture to guess that for some people, hjearing that someone is single into her 70s would create a mental picture of someone who failed to find a mate, dare I say, an old maid. But Nope, she didn't want to be in a committed relationship. And ultimately, she made understanding those who are, as she calls them, single at heart, her life's research. As I was reading her book, I started to wonder how many of the failed marriages I witnessed in my work were really about one partner ignoring their desire to live as a single person because of the pressure to achieve coupledom. Even though financially women no longer need to marry, that unwritten and untrue belief – that remaining single means no one wanted you – still exerts quite a strong pressure, especially on women. So today I want to explore with Marieke what the decision to remain single after her divorce has been like for her. 

So let's get to it. Marieke attended Penn State and earned a degree in business administration. She is currently an office manager for a physical therapy practice. She's a divorced mom of two adult daughters. Ohmi, aka Grandma, once and soon to be twice. She currently works out three to five times a week, not counting dancing at clubs. And she is in an axe throwing league. Um, can you say badass? Love of local bands, live music and travel with an extensive and supportive group of friends. She also has been known to post sexy Santa Pics at holiday time. Hey Marieke, welcome to No Shrinking Violets.

Marieke

Hi, thanks for having me.

Mary

Alright, so I'm just gonna jump in. So you got married eight years after high school and separated from your ex after two kids and 15 years of marriage.

Speaker

Right.

Mary

Yet it took another seven years to finalize your divorce. Was that all that like? Was that journey like?

Marieke

It was weird because it was stressful. Because, you know, once you leave and make that decision to leave and be on your own, you kind of want to finalize everything. And that just took a while. It was very stressful in that I had to keep going through the process and. Repeat things, lawyers and but mentally it was stressful because I really wanted to be done.

And it felt like this constant weight on my shoulders, and also then about three years after I left, I started. Dating a little bit here and there, and men didn't want somebody that was still married, even though I at that point had already been on my own for three years. The waiting and the stress of trying to get everything cleared up was not the most. It was the most glorious day when it was finally over.

Mary

I'm sure. So you sum that up pretty quickly, but it was long time. Were you living separately then since?

Marieke

Oh yeah, I left in 2008 and I have been in the same townhouse for 16 years. So I was out on my own supporting myself. For a while, supporting me and the kids. And then I finally told him he's, you know, I asked for some support. I felt bad 'cause. I left him in the house. So I felt like I. I. I don't know why I felt bad, but. The opportunity for him to leave was given, but he didn't want to do that because I don't think that he thought that I would do it. So when I did. That first three years, I didn't even ask for child support, and then I did. After the three years because it got to be too much because kids are expensive.

Mary

How do you remember how old your girls were when you left?

Marieke

10 and 12. And ironically. It took me a while to. I mean, I knew pretty early on that things weren't good, but. I was thinking I was saving a marriage for the kids because, you know, and at the time after I stopped working full time and was working three different odd jobs to bring money in, I didn't think I could afford it. And then I did get a full time job. Once the kids were both in school and that's when I realized, you know what I can do this. This and I was just putting it off because, you know, it was a whirlwind of a marriage and emotions went up and down and then the girls came to me that summer in 2008 and they were 10 and 12 years old and they were. They came. Me together and they said. We're willing to change schools if you leave, and that was the eye opener where? Kids saw. They knew that it was time to go and they were willing to lose all their friends at their current school. To leave, but I ended up finding a place right across the street where we could keep them in the same district.

Mary

At 10 and 12 they had that maturity to recognize that it was really not a healthy thing.

Marieke

Yeah, isn't that? And they were so great about it. Were very supportive. They were always, you know, an advocate for our happiness. So yeah it. It really is what sealed the deal for me to say, OK. Time to go and literally within a month. We left.

They were at Girl Scout camp and I went and found this place, and when they came back, I took them to the basement and I told them we're going to leave next week. And that's what we did. And we had to do it that way just because of the the way that I knew he would react and I knew that he couldn't be there and we just had to kind of disappear. And and it wasn't abusive physically. It was mentally abusive. You know, just wearing me down. So I was like, I'm not putting up with that. I just so had a bunch of my softball team mates and Co workers and family and friends all line their cars up in front of the house and we loaded them up and brought stuff over here. Yeah, 16 years ago.

Mary

So one of my questions before I talk a little about what it was like to parent as a single parent, do you feel like most of the people in your life at the time were supportive of your leaving?

Marieke

Absolutely they saw. I mean, even neighbors thought, you know, I'm out there nine months pregnant with my second daughter mowing the lawn because he didn't do it. I was like, I gotta get this done at camp, you know? So rude to our neighbors to have our lawn this high. And they would come over and do the. They would come up 'cause. They just knew it wasn't gonna get done unless it did. So the neighbors were understanding and I actually had a neighbor across the street that was a psychologist and her and I talked a lot. Sit on the porch talking a lot with her and she was one of the ones that also really. Told me that with all the different mental disorders that he had going on that it was never going to change and the roller coaster that I was on was just going to continue as it was. So that kind of helped my mind saying, OK, it's never going to change. Weirdly enough, 16 years later, it hasn't changed. She's still the same. Though it I could have stayed and kept putting up with all the roller coaster ride, but instead we left and it was the best decision we ever made.

Mary

Well, so you had somebody there validating you too, which probably.

Marieke

Right, Yep.

Mary

So what were the challenges of being a single parent? Like was having an ex a help or did that actually make life harder?

Marieke

No, he didn't help. I mean, he tried to spend weekend every other weekend with the kids and then. They it just resulted in me having to kind of detox them on a Sunday night to all the craziness that happened while they were there and they were calling me all the time and stressed out. He didn't know how to handle any of it. He was. Putting me down and saying things about me and I told him, I said you're more than welcome to tell Dad that. That's not true, and they do that now too. You know, if he would say anything, but his mom was saying stuff and he was saying stuff. So I pretty much had them all the time because he didn't want to take them every other weekend because he worked every other weekend. And I'm like, yeah, so. The the kids just it was just crazy for them when they went there, especially for my younger one because my older one would run down the street to her friends and the younger one was stuck there by herself with them. And so, you know, they didn't go to. Dad's much and I didn't push it. Because. I didn't want to make them stressed out. Didn't want to make them. Have to deal with him and it petered out after a while. We stopped having them go and that was. But you know it wasn't any help. Like I said earlier, financially, he didn't help during the first three years. And then when I finally did, he wanted me. To have him just give me money when he felt appropriate and I was like, no, you know, I've been winging this on my own rubbing pennies together to get us through. Not going to keep doing. So, but I had a lot of. My mom was super supportive because she saw things for years and wanted me to get out and you know, I had neighbor. I had coworkers. Had my friends and my family. All very. They all saw it. You know, you just think when you're in the highs of it you're thinking, OK. It'll stay like this and then it would dip back down. So no, it was not. Any help him beating there. I you know, I always said he didn't do much when he was home and when he was around. So it just made it actually easier to be at home with the kids here by myself with them, because then I made the decisions and I didn't have the interruption and the frustration of him.

Mary

Well, we talked about this a little bit about those few years when you tried to date, but I feel like what I see now like especially on social media, you're pretty proudly single and I think that's something generation might have a tough time with. And I think we were certainly socialized to prioritize being married, especially when there are kids involved. You mentioned a little bit initially thinking that staying with your husband would help the. Did you have other struggles with your decision to divorce because of sort of that social pressure?

Marieke

Not at all.

You know, I was raised by a single mom, and that's what I know. I don't want that. To be the generational flow in my family, I was hoping that my daughters put the stop to that, you know, stay in happy marriages when, when and if they get married. But I don't have any of that pressure at this point in my life. I kind of say. To do what makes you happy and I'm happy so I don't have. Any problems being single I don't. I think because I hang around a lot of single women who have been through traumatic marriages that everybody's kind of like, Yep, we're just going to live our life now. That's we're good.

Mary

You told me before you did date a little bit initially. So do you remember feeling pressure after you're divorced to actually find a partner?

Marieke

Now that first three years, I focused on me and the kids and then when it was actually the kids who told me mom, you know, you can start dating. So I didn't even have any desire to at first because because. I just was so happy to be without anybody to deal with. And the kids were like mom, you can start dating. It's been like three years now and I'm like, let me see what it was like. At that. I think I had already kind of realized that I was I I like things. Just a. Certain way I want to be a certain way and I'm not saying I won't ever, ever get into a relationship, but it would have to be somebody that's. Perfect for me. And I just unless that happens, I'm perfectly happy as it is. I don't feel any pressure to be in a relationship and my family is totally fine with it. Have a lot of friends that are single and even. My friends that are married. Don't give me any. So no, I don't have any pressure of finding soulmate or relationship.

Mary

So what do you like about being single?

Marieke

My freedom coming home and being in my house by myself and doing what I want. Mean I look, I work long days, right? I work 10 hour days on the days I do work. And then the days I have my grandson, I have him 10. But when I hear somebody like that is married talking about an issue but a financial issue or leaving their stuff lay around issue, I'm just always like, yeah, I just don't feel like dealing with any of that. It stresses me out like I just said this afternoon was talking to a friend of mine and she was letting me know some things that were happening and it just I am in the mode of empowering people to if you're not happy in a situation. And it's not gonna get. You only live once 

Mary

Well, so when you think back to your early 20s and I know my relationships were quite varied, I mean, I dated a bunch before I got married. Got married later after I dated, but I never quite had the same type of relationship at any point through my life. So. If you think back to the, I'll say the girl you were in high school or your early 20s, do you think maybe you were always more single at heart and would have been happy to not marry? Or do you think you needed to go through this?

Marieke

Yes.

I think I needed to go through this because I've always. I know I wanted children and they are the best, so I would never ever change that. You know, I didn't date much in high school. In fact, hardly at all. I didn't date much in college. I've never really dated much at. I've just kind of always been do my own thing and I don't know if that's part of being raised by a single mom and seeing her do everything. So I feel like I have to do everything I don't. I don't where that stems from. But I mean, you know, I was engaged before I got. I was engaged to somebody else and that just didn't work out you. And then being married. And I've never been like some of my friends that I have that are like, they jump from one relationship to another just because they can't be on their own. Is definitely not me.

Mary

So when you were engaged to your ex-husband, as time went on and you were moving closer towards getting married, was there a part of you that knew maybe this wasn't the right thing?

Marieke

Yep. We had dated three years before we got married. We went and bought a house and then he's Catholic and with his Catholicism, he. Was like, well, we can't move in the house together until we're married. I. Well, then, what are we doing here? Because so it wasn't even really like an official, like engagement type. It was like, well, I guess we should get married since we're buying a house because we're not gonna have this house. Sit here. If you can't get in there and we can't be together in it because of your religion, that makes no sense. And my mom, in the weeks leading up to it, asked me several times. You sure? And I think at that point, you know, you're what, 20? Old was. 25 and I knew I wanted kids. There were very good parts to him. But the bad parts just slowly got worse, so I just kept focusing on the good parts and realizing that I'm just gonna have to see how this goes.

Mary

Yeah. And, you know, I do think there is a lot of assumption you know like you get to a certain age and then the next thing you're supposed to do is find a partner and then you buy a house and then you have kids and you sort of. Much follow that path, even when part of you knew that maybe. This wasn't the best decision. So again, I'm gonna say if you could rewind. Would you have kids without being married?

Marieke

Oh yeah. It's I don't have any qualms about. I don't have any where you had to have, you know, be married to have. My daughter's not married and she's working on her second one and I have no issues with that at all. Yeah. So I would have done that and I did have feelings for him and, you know, and I'm guessing I did love him at some point. I'm sure I did. But it just very easily fell out of I. We were good while we didn't have kids, but. Once we had kids, he couldn't handle it. He wasn't the center of my attention, and he did not like that. And that's where things really went. So I be honest, it really went downhill after I had my first daughter because he just did not like that all the attention was not on him and I had my second daughter two years later then. And like I said, I I knew things weren't good. I just kind of didn't know what else to. And you know, you kind of feel like, well, I made this decision. Stick with. But then that mentality went right out the window after a few years, I was like, no, I'm not doing this anymore.

Mary

The researcher that I mentioned, Dr DePaulo, did a lot of research on people that are single and I think what our society often thinks is that if you're single, you're lonely and you're miserable and you're just looking for that person and what she actually found was the people that are happy as she calls it single at heart have a lot of richness in their lives. And I see how much time you spend with your grandson and how much time you spend with your friends and what she actually found was people that are happy being single have very deep and connected friendships so. Referred to that as having the ones versus having the one you know a friend network versus.

Marieke

I never 100% agree with that 100% because as you well know, I have lots of friends.

Mary

Yeah.

Marieke

I do lots of things. I love that people think of me when there's a concert and they're like, oh, that's something Marieke would want to go to. And we ask each other about concerts, and we do that. Oh, this band's playing here, you. Let's go there and you know, and I've met people. Who throw on axes and I've met people through the gym and I've brought those people into my life, you know, single women. One I met at Ax and she was coming out with us. And, you know, my gym buddy, she comes out with us. So I'm always like pulling in the people and kind. Help enrich their. Because I think it's so much healthier and so much better to be active in doing things.

Mary

OK. What would you say if you had someone that you knew or that talked to you that was getting a divorce? And I think you're pretty extroverted, would you? You agree with that you're pretty outgoing.

Marieke

I do need my alone time and I do need my quiet time, but I definitely love to be in groups of people and in crowds and with my friends.

Mary

So if there was someone that had been married for quite a while and was getting divorced, and they were very afraid of being single, not having somebody there to help them, or having to go out to dinner by themselves, what would you say to them?

Marieke

Find friends. Join clubs. Join groups join things and you know, keep yourself open to do other things. I mean, yes, I have a friend who does go and travels on her own, and she does go out to eat on her own, but then she also has a group of friends that she does duck with. I mean, there's positives to both. I would say that if you want to do things, you got to make it happen. Got to, you know, join a hiking club or a cart. Whatever you're into. Something you know there are singles groups.

I've never done that. I've always felt awkward in that, you know, presenting myself in that type of environment, but. Yeah, I'd say for people that are worried about it, you just need to reach out to your friends that you do have. And and don't be afraid to be the one that initiates any type of activity because you know you ask somebody to do something and it's amazing how many people are like. Yeah, I'd love to do that. Do. And that's kind of how my group has grown. You know, we have a Facebook Messenger chat group where we put in. Hey, we're gonna go see this band and eight of us show up because we're like, oh, yeah, we'd like to see that band, you know? Then the more friends you get, you kind of bring some in and you lose some here along the way. But it's just you're always networking with each other and doing things and it grows and it keeps you content and happy in my opinion.

Mary

Well, it sounds like you were able to feel empowered like you never had that narrative of, oh, I need to find a partner. Or people are going to think that nobody wants me or people are going to look at me and they're going to feel sorry for me because I'm by myself. You ever hear that have that kind of inner talk in your brain?

Marieke

I'm not gonna lie. There's moments where I do think, you know 'cause. I've seen some of my friends get out of marriages and jump right into another one, and I'm like. Did they do? Like how can we even find somebody that you wanted to be with? And some it worked out perfectly. And some it has not. Or they're jumping, you know, into relationships. And then when they start complaining. I'm kind of like, then why don't you leave? Not. You're not stuck in that relationship. And I've just never felt like I have to be in one, but. But is there sometimes that inner well? There something I'm doing? Because, you know, I've been on the dating sites and I reread my profile a couple times. What am I not putting here that is not attracting what I liked? What am I missing? I think it's because I'm so. Not sure what I want that I it's kind of wishy washy with what I put out there too.

Mary

Well, it sounds like very firmly you're not gonna settle for something that doesn't fit what you want in your life.

Marieke

Absolutely.

Mary

Yeah.

Marieke

I'll stay single and happy and where I'm at before I get into something that is not right for me and that's absolutely how I feel 100%.

Mary

Is there any time that you ever feel like life would be easier with a partner?

Marieke

No.

Mary

OK.

Marieke

Every now and then I wish I had, you know, like when you know your car needs this and that because I rent so like maintenance takes care of the stuff that needs taken care of. I just call them. And with my car, I take it to you know, there's little things where it would be nice if, hey, can you go check the air on my tires or something like that? Like. I'll just go do it.

Mary

Yeah.

Marieke

It just gets to the point where when I was married, I would ask for things to get done. Stuff never got done anyway, so. I ended up doing it all anyway, so for me it's just easier to stay. But yeah, would it be nice to bounce things off of people or have a second opinion on stuff? Or. But you know, that's what I use my friends for then too.

Speaker

Mm.

Marieke

Hey, what do you think about this or what would you do with this or you know, can you help me with this and just gotta be not afraid to ask. You know, people can say no, but you also become very hyper independent too.

Mary

Yeah, it's funny because you can kind of idealize having a partner. Like you said, yeah, it'd be nice to be able to say, can you go check the air in my tires? Then you think, well, that doesn't necessarily mean whoever you end up with is going to do that and. Exactly. We yeah, we kind of look at all the things that we think are going to be better. And then I think often when you get into something, it's one other person, like nobody's perfect. And you always have to give up something. You know, I used to say to my college students when they got into a relationship, what are you willing to give up because you never get a relationship without giving up something that you prefer to have. and I think you've reached a point where you're just not going to compromise.

Marieke

No,  exactly. And the longer it goes now. I think about this a. I do think you know, because you know on a Friday night, if I just if I'm gonna go out, it's only me. I have to talk to about. You wanna go? Yeah, I'll go out, OK. And have a conversation with myself and myself says yeah, that sounds like fun. Do it. You know, and there's just so many things around the house and things. And when I go do stuff, you know, and now that I have a grandchild and a second one on the way, I wanna go see them. OK. I wanna go stop and check on my mom. Have my mom stop in here, OK? Everything is what I wanna do and I don't want that to sound like I'm a selfish person because maybe I am. Selfish in my happiness because I've been there, done that, and I don't want to go through it again.

Mary

Yeah. Well, and it's exactly what the research has found. What doctor Dipaolo found is that people that are actually happy being single, the biggest thing that they value is freedom, and that is the first thing that you mentioned is that freedom to just make a choice that you want to make. 

Marieke

And you know, when I do see some of these couples that I have in my life, that struggle and, you know, and they're complaining and I, you know, I'm not one to say, well, you got to stay married, you know, you signed up for this. This is what? Have to do. And I'm definitely not one that's like. So I'm more the opposite that you know, you don't need to stay married, you can get out of it. Are options and if I can do it with what I was making when I left 16 years ago. Anybody can do it.

Mary

Well, and that's, I think another thing people think about it financially we can find a lot of reasons to stay stuck.

And you again really cool. Your daughters were very supportive and talk to at that young age and you had a really supportive network which, you know, we need to acknowledge. Everybody does, but I think when you put your mind to it. You make it. You know, you had a really, really hard situation where you were basically doing a lot of the relationship work, a lot of the parenting work anyway. You use the word selfish and I would say that there’s society again saying that, you know a woman who decides that she's going to live on her own, we start to think, is this OK? Like, is it really OK that I'm doing this? And I really don't think most men would use that word ever if they decided to be single so. So there's still, I think a lot of those scripts that happen that even when we're happy and we value what we have and all these friends who a lot of them in similar situations, we can still hear that. Sometimes that is like you is this really OK? So I have one more question. You have two daughters and they seem pretty strong and independent.

How do you think your life choices and the example you set… How do you think that impacted them?

Marieke

I think the biggest thing for both of them is me being single most of their teenage years and adult lives. And seeing how my life has been and what I do, they're actually proud of me. They've done things with me and my friends and I think it has helped them to see the way that I am. So what I have given them. Is the power to say. We're not settling for. And my older daughter is in a fantastic. Relationship with a very great guy that you know when I see what he does for her and how he reacts to her, I'm like, that's exactly the way it should be. And my younger daughter is still single, but she has definitely. You know, she's tried the dating thing too, but she's also like. I needed to be somebody that's perfect for me. Doesn't have. You know, she's not saying, oh, I have to date somebody. Just date somebody to date somebody. She definitely is like I will make all the choices of what I need. Need and I'm not going to feel pressured to to just commit to something. They know what they need to look for and the one has thankfully found it. And the other one is still looking. But she is making sure that that person is the right person for her. Cause they've seen what the wrong person is like.

Mary

So you set a really amazing example for them. Do you ever talk about or ever acknowledge this is what happened or that you see that strength in them, that they are prioritizing what they need?

Marieke

Yeah, we do, actually. You know I. Have a pretty good relationship with both of my. My one daughter's been in her relationship now 7. Think it might be 8 years soon, but yeah, we do a lot of talking about what we like and what we don't like in relationships and what is healthy and what is not healthy and how. It's OK to wait and it's OK to be with somebody that you want to be with, and if it's not OK, it's get out. They don't have any qualms about. And you know, we've been very I've been very candid with them about everything.

Mary

Yeah.

Marieke

We have a lot of good conversations about it.

Mary

Yeah, that's awesome. And you know, one of the themes that is often a part of this podcast is that everybody is unique. Often I think, especially as women, we'll look at someone else's situation and we are very quick to judge. And especially with social media, you know, nobody puts their worst moments on there so. You know, and I mentioned you have your posts are really upbeat and you're having fun. And I can see there may be somebody even thinking what is she doing like. Look how old she. She, you know, at our age there can be a lot of judgment.

Marieke

Oh my. My mother sometimes is like that. One of her friends said that I go out a lot and my mom was like, yes, and my mom even mentioned to me one time. But you maybe not I. Mom, tell them to scroll right on by because I will post whatever I want to post.

Mary

Yep.

Marieke

I am not adjusting what I do for somebody who thinks I'm out too much.

Mary

Yeah, that's awesome that you would stand your ground without because I think that there is a lot of judgement and too often I think sometimes we make decisions because we worry about what other women think and we need to just support each other and whatever choice somebody makes. We might see them at the. Making what we think is a mistake and it comes to fruition and but we're we still can be there for them. And so I think really the point is if you feel that you want to stay single, that's cool. If you feel like you want to have a. That's cool too. It's really figuring out what you want and trying not to let what society thinks dictate your choices.

Marieke

Exactly. You know you we get one life and being happy and going and doing things that make me happy is what I want to do and whether it's what, as a single person or if I would eventually find a partner where I can do all these things that. Make me happy but. You got to do what makes you and keeps you happy. I think it's very important.

Mary

Yeah. Well, and you're definitely living it. So thank you so much for joining me today. Marieke. It was a great conversation.

Marieke

Thank you. It was great to be with you. It's fun.

Mary

And thank you everyone. I will put a link to Dr DePaulo's book in the show notes. If you enjoyed today's show, please, I'd love to hear your thoughts on being a single woman or your suggestions for future guests or topics. You can also text me directly. Check the show notes for a link and you may hear your comment in a future show. Until we meet again, go out into the world, and may the amazing, resilient, vibrant Violet that you are.