No Shrinking Violets Podcast for Women

Call It What It Is: Control is Abuse, Not Love

• Mary Rothwell • Season 1 • Episode 59

Share episode

Thoughts or comments? Send us a text!

Control rarely arrives kicking down the door—it slips in dressed as care. That’s the thread we pull with author and advocate Amanda Scott, whose 17-year marriage looked stable from the outside but ran on a quiet currency of emotional and financial abuse. We explore how intense attention, constant check-ins, and money “help” can be early signals of coercive control, and why fairy-tale scripts about rescue and romance make it harder to recognize red flags like love-bombing, isolation, and gaslighting.

Amanda shares the pivotal moment that cracked the façade—a phone lit with twelve missed calls and a feeling she could no longer ignore—and the forty-three days that followed as she rebuilt her life step by step. We go deep on financial abuse: withheld funds, coerced signatures, unauthorized debts, and the misuse of power of attorney that trap victims and block the exit. You’ll hear practical guidance on safety planning, from go-bags and code words to secure documents, discreet accounts, and trauma-informed support. We also talk about the role of friends as lifelines: how to keep the door open, offer help without control, and become the steady presence a survivor can lean on.

At the heart of this conversation is a redefinition of love and worth. Real love respects time and autonomy; it doesn’t require you to get smaller to keep the peace. If you feel small, silenced, controlled, or afraid, that is enough to call it what it is and begin again. We’re here to remind you that freedom is possible, self-respect is a practice, and community is the bridge between the two.

If this resonates, follow the show, share it with someone who needs to hear it, and leave a review to help more people find these resources. Your support might be the nudge that opens a door for someone else.

You can find Amanda HERE.

Support the show

Comments about this episode? Suggestions for a future episode? Email me directly at NSVpodcast@gmail.com.

Follow me on Facebook and Instagram, and check out my website!

Mary:

Welcome to No Shrinking Violets. I'm your host, Mary Rothwell, licensed therapist and certified integrative mental health practitioner. I've created a space where we celebrate the intuition and power of women who want to break free from limiting narratives. We'll explore all realms of wellness, what it means to take up space unapologetically, and how your essential nature is key to living life on your terms. It's time to own your space, trust your nature, and flourish. Let's dive in. Hey Violets, welcome to the show. I know from my work with women who have experienced assault or even chronic abuse, there's a lot of misunderstanding about how the cycle happens and what would allow someone to endure long-term abuse. The question many who are ignorant ask: why didn't she just leave? And oh, how complicated the foundation and cycle of abuse really is. It has been through experiencing the stories of my clients and learning from other professionals who specialize in working with abuse victims that I myself really began to understand how complex these situations are. Dozens of times I've sat across from college students who knew something was drastically wrong in her relationship, yet was careful to only share details that were so whitewashed that an untrained ear might hear it as love. I firmly believe that the stories we're told, from movies to fairy tales, set women up for a faulty inner belief system that is fertile ground for the seeds of abuse to grow. Snow White, jealousy of another woman, led to Snow White being poisoned and a prince had to save her. Cinderella, kept in servitude by jealous stepsisters and stepmom until she is saved by both magic and a prince who fell in love with her shoe. 80s movies, smart, quirky, and funny girls who were way cooler than the popular girls, twisting themselves into a pretzel to win the cute boy. Is he really the prize, though? Okay, so let me draw the parallel. We're told that first a man needs to save us, and when he does, we've won. And the other girls will be jealous. And he does this by being charming and, well, hell, a literal prince. So when we meet someone that seems to be so enamored of us that he makes his life about us, we can think that's love. And when he gets angry or he starts to buy you the clothes he wants you to wear or support you cutting ties with girlfriends because after all, you have each other, each of those little red flags, which would fill a football field, can be ignored because each separate incident can feel insignificant until they don't. My guest today has her own story of abuse, and there may be shades of some of these same issues. While there are nearly always aspects that are similar from one situation to the next, including shared self-beliefs, each case is unique and should be respected as such. And also, it's not only women who are victims of partner abuse. Men can be abused by both male and female partners. Okay, so today we have Amanda Scott with us. She is the author of Finding My Way Back to Me, her story about how she found the courage to free herself after 17 years in an abusive marriage, which brings focus to the often hidden aspects of domestic abuse. Amanda now works with people who have experienced domestic financial and emotional abuse, helping them to rebuild their lives and find a new way forward. Welcome to No Shrinking Violets, Amanda. Hello, Mary, and thank you for having me. And I want to note that Amanda is in Australia. So it's 9 a.m. here in Pennsylvania and it's like 11 o'clock PM there. So she is a little bit of a night owl. And I am.

Amanda:

I am tonight. I am tonight, Mary.

Mary:

So I appreciate you staying up for us because I think this is going to be a great conversation. So I wondered if you could start by telling us about your specific situation. So kind of give an idea how things started with your ex-partner, how it escalated, and then how you kind of were able to escape from all of it.

Amanda:

Well, I experienced domestic abuse in a marriage for 17 years. Yet for the longest time, I didn't realize that what I lived with was abuse. Because abuse takes many forms. And it's often hidden, whether it's financial or emotional or uh physical or sexual abuse, it creates feelings of shame in the abused that keep them stuck. I mean, nobody wants to feel unloved and uncared for. And so we make excuses for our partner's behavior rather than accept the truth that we are being abused. So I decided to share my lived experience because I wanted to shine more light on this issue. As my greatest hope is that people can find awareness and support and move through this because there is um everyone deserves kindness and respect. And to move on from an abusive situation.

Mary:

Yeah. Well, do you so do you remember for you when you started to get an inkling that this isn't maybe what you signed up for in your marriage?

Amanda:

Yes, well, I think it's well, my journey to free myself from an abusive relationship really started when I returned from the car after going for a walk in the park with a friend. And uh returning to the car, I found 12 missed calls on my phone. Uh I was terrified. I called my husband because I I thought, what had happened? Something had seriously had happened. But he answered, Where have you been? What have you been doing? Why haven't you been answering your phone? You have a phone, pick it up. I've been here waiting for my lunch. So this conversation was a beginning of the end. I've been lied to, financially abused, and told I was worthless.

Mary:

Yeah. And you had children too, right? So there was a di there was other there were other things you really had to kind of be concerned about, the caretaking of the children, all of that probably complicated some things.

Amanda:

Absolutely. Absolutely. And it impacts the children. Yeah. But we you know, don't tell yourself you'll stay for the children, because what we teach our children in that situation is that love equals abuse. And one of my primary motivations for leaving the marriage was to show m my children the importance of self-respect.

Mary:

Yeah.

Amanda:

But Mary, you know, as I I stop and I look back, um I um was stopped really from seeing friends a long time ago because my husband didn't want me to take the primary role of being a mother and looking after the house away. So when I got married, I uh you know, the big really the biggest issue was the way I interpreted the science of uh love. Because when I got married, I was convinced of one thing that my husband loved me. When he called me 12 times a day to see where I was, what I was doing, and and when I'd be home, in my mind, it showed me that he loved and he cared for me when he was critical of the friends um that I was seeing early on in in the time that we were um together. Um I believed that he was really concerned for my well-being. Um, in truth, I think I had to believe that I was loved because the alternative was unthinkable. It was like rendering my life in meaninglessly. So what happened is my husband's behavior towards me deteriorated. I made excuses rather than accept the truth that what I believed was love and a protective nature was actually, in fact, abuse and control. And it happened so slowly. Well, yes, and in my case, abuse grew slowly, yes, and it starts out as one incident of of disrespect, uh, and then uh it becomes two and three until eventually it becomes the way I lived. I mean, I was told I was stupid, so it didn't take long before I believed it, and that meant each time I was treated badly, it became my fault because I thought if I was better, things would be better. So, what happens is the emotional abuse enables a financial abuse because I was too scared to question my husband's decisions, so I did what I was told, hoping he would get better.

Mary:

Yeah, but it doesn't, right? And it's interesting because when you you talk about love, and so I I tend to believe that initially we in in abusive relationships, you are loved. And I think then other things come into play. So when you have somebody that you especially have committed your life to and you trust and you feel loves you, starts to tell you things like you're stupid, yeah, you know, that really can mess with your mind because you this is the person you're supposed to trust. And you know, and so it can create that self-doubt. And the more you hear it and the deeper you are into it, that's where I think it becomes difficult to kind of extricate yourself and get yourself. Well, you start to believe it.

Amanda:

And that is the thing. I mean, when I look back, it seems unreal that I was would uh accept the day-to-day reality back then. I mean, I asked myself why? Why did I tolerate what I know now to be emotional and financial abuse? But the short answer is that control, uh, abuse took control of my whole world. Yeah, I no longer had a reference point to be treated with dignity and respect. It became my new normal. It was normal to be yelled at, it was normal to be told I was stupid, it was normal never to make my own decisions. Yet the deeper answer as to why I tolerated it, it was because I had grown to believe that I deserved to be treated that way. Yeah.

Mary:

And I think it's easy to look at it from the outside and think I would never let myself get into that situation. But it's like the idea of the putting the lobster in the pot and then bringing it to a boil. You don't really recognize what's happening until you're like, holy, holy crap, like I'm in a pot of boiling water. And yeah, so you have mentioned financial abuse a couple of times. And part of reading through your information, when I saw that, I'm like, yes, like this is such an important aspect. And so to give a little context, and I want you to talk about more about what this means, but when I think about United States, so we women did not have the ability to take out loans, buy a house until 1973. And for some people, that might be like, oh, that was a long time ago. For me, I was um six years old at that point. So it's it's really interesting to think that we didn't have those rights. And when you don't have the ability to be financially independent, I want you to think about if you had no access to a bank account, no access to money. So that is part of abuse that I think we don't talk about. So can you explain a little what financial abuse means and how that affected you?

Amanda:

Yeah, because whatever you think of domestic uh abuse, it just uh you think of an image of uh physical violence, but that is an insidious form of uh control and it's financial abuse. And what it does, it strips away your independence, it your security, and your ability to escape the situation. The emotional and social consequences are um still unaddressed and unseen. And I mean, many survivors like I was, we suffer in silence because of the lack of resources and the fear of judgment. Um in Australia, one in four people um uh suffer from financial abuse. And the thing, the problem is, I mean, studies have been taken by the UNSW in um Sydney, and the biggest problem is that there is no clear definition of what financial abuse is. So there is no clear, uh there's no um accurate or consistent measures.

Mary:

Yeah.

Amanda:

So um yeah, so it's a really it's quite a big problem here. Um, and as you said, what happens is withholding money, uh withholding funds, uh, and the abusers um control all the finances.

Mary:

Yeah.

Amanda:

Uh yes. So leaving women with without funds and sometimes for the basic things, and also there's um mounting hidden debts.

Mary:

Yeah.

Amanda:

Uh women often discover that their names are tied to unauthorized credit cards and loans um accumulated by the abuser. And then there's also um economic isolation, and that's by limiting the education and the final literacy. This is where the abusers trap women in that cycle of uh dependency. It's really important for women to step up and to find out what is happening, what with the finances, and do not sign anything without fully understanding what you are being presented with. Because my husband had my power of attorney and use that to secure loans and credit in my name.

Mary:

And did you say that you didn't even have a car that was in your name? There was no car keeping to you.

Amanda:

Yeah, absolutely. Yes, yes, yes, yes. The thing is, what happens is sometimes we get too scared to access money from the accounts or the credit cards without permission, yeah, because of the repercussions being yelled at, being made to feel small. So you don't feel like you're worthy because you have your you've had your self-worth being chipped away, you don't think you're worthy enough to have money.

Mary:

Yeah. And I think if if someone thinks about, okay, if you had to today leave your home and just leave, could you if you had if you didn't have your credit card, if you didn't have so you know, we often hear stories, and I'll go to like movies or books, we hear the stories of women squirreling away money, like they have to save cash. They they have to plan to get out, which in itself, I'm thinking, is quite stressful because you know in your mind, like here's my plan, but you need to act in everyday life, like that's not your plan. So, how did you? I know your story. So you were walking in the park with a friend. It's it's interesting that sometimes simple things are the eye-openers when we really look at our lives. So, how did you how did this process work for you of getting out of this situation?

Amanda:

I think well for the most powerful and step a woman can take is to admit and acknowledge that she is in an abusive relationship. And it might sound simple to someone on the outside, but when you are living in it, it is one of the hardest truths to face because we make excuses, we normalize the behavior, we tell ourselves it's not that bad, especially if there's no bruises or broken bones to prove the pain. But abuse, as I said, wears many masks, it's not always loud or violent. Yeah, yeah. So I think it's uh by admitting it. And once you admit it, you crack open the door to freedom by simply saying enough is enough, it starts to oh and you don't have to, you might not have all the answers. You might not know what the to take the next step. You you might not know how to take that next step, but by simply saying enough, it opens a door to freedom. Yes, and the help is there, support is there. So gradually, you know, it's it's just about making a decision that you deserve a better life, and then do whatever it takes to make that happen. And that means finding that part of you that still has dreams for a good life and wants to leave more than you want to stay. Yeah.

Mary:

Yeah, I think there's a lot of shame when you recognize it. I mean, I think that's part of the reason why many women know on some level, but to be able to sort of step out and say, I, and I think it is because of this socialized um idea of strong women don't end up in abusive relationships, which is totally untrue, 100% untrue. Some of some very, very strong women have ended up in the situation because, like we said, it's gradual. And then once you're there, it's like, how did I get here? Surely I'm strong enough to get myself out of this, but it's very complex. And so I think the idea of shame is very real. But at the same time, your story can help people understand that it's so, so common to end up on this path and there's nothing shameful. It's a human condition. And then once you're you recognize, like you're saying, I don't want to live this way, then that's the first step. So for you, what did that look like? How did you take that step? Did you say something to your husband? Was it more this internal decision? How did you turn that huge ship around and go in another direction?

Amanda:

Well, I just had enough. Enough was, you know, I realized it was enough. And the final trigger was um his infidelity. And I don't know, Mary, if today I'd still be there if it wasn't for that. But I knew that wasn't right, that was my turning point. Um, that was a time enough was enough for me. Yes. And the fear of staying was greater than the fear of leaving. And I think when it gets to that point, you just do whatever you can. And you you sometimes need to leave it up to others to support. And I think the most important thing is to maintain strong friendships because they are the backbone to your path forward. That's a very and start making your needs a priority. For me, that was one step that I really took. And for me, that was walking in the park. That was connecting with friends. That was the only way that I could actually stay the distance to get through the process.

Mary:

Yeah.

Amanda:

Yeah.

Mary:

Well, and so this podcast, there's there's a community, I feel like it's a community. And when women I think can stand together, we are stronger. So I would put sort of put this, you know, out there to anyone listening. If you know someone who's in this situation, it might not be you, but I think abusers can make a situation to like they sort of set it up so that they disconnect the person they're abusing from their supports, their family, their friends. And if you're that friend and you sense something is wrong, but your friend isn't ready to hear that, please keep the door open because there could be a day where you know that behavior isn't about you. If they're stopped calling you or they make excuses and you have that gut feeling, something is not right with Amanda, something is not right with Susie, something, whatever it is, please don't let that make you close the door if you know that you know, there's this sense of something is not right. Please be available if that person at some point needs to have your support. Yes.

Amanda:

And they will when they are ready.

Mary:

Yeah.

Amanda:

And it's just being there for them when they are ready.

Mary:

Yeah. Well, and I think it's confusing, like we talked about in you know, in the introduction, I think it's confusing sometimes because we mistake certain actions as love. So if somebody is a young person or new in a relationship and there's the excitement and all the great stuff, but there's starting to be this sense of like, I don't, that didn't feel great, but I think it's just because he loves me. Can you give an idea? Like, what are some alarm bells that someone might be an abuser or you might be in an abusive relationship?

Amanda:

Some of them are when you feel that you're um that you feel that you're responsible for everything, that you're not treated as an equal and your opinion doesn't count when you are shamed regularly and told you're incompetent and stupid, when you're made to feel as though everything is your fault. Oh yeah.

Mary:

Yeah, the gaslighting part.

Amanda:

Yes.

Mary:

Yeah, that's not no, that's not how it happened, and you know that's how it happened.

Amanda:

Right.

Mary:

Yeah.

Amanda:

When you are denied regular access to friends and shamed for having anyone out uh uh, you know, uh any other person um from outside, come inside. I mean, you know, when you're shamed for having that friendship, when you um have little access to money, yeah, yeah. Or you need to ask for it. Asking for money, begging for money.

Mary:

And sometimes it can be thinking if if you're really lost and really confused, it can be thinking, would I treat my partner that I loved this way? Would I perpetrate these behaviors on that person, on someone I loved, would I treat my children this way? And that can sometimes when we that that makes it not about, is am I overreacting? Am I, you know, expecting something that isn't going to happen? I think it then can it's sort of like, what's the evidence? Let's look at it, put it in a different context. Would you treat somebody you love in the ways you're being treated? And that can take out some of that emotion because usually the answer is a resounding no. I would never want someone to feel this way, feel so reduced.

Amanda:

And only until we ask ourselves those questions do we realize what has had is actually happening.

Mary:

Yeah.

Amanda:

What is currently happening, yes.

Mary:

Yeah.

Amanda:

So it's acknowledging it, asking those sort of questions to yourself. Yeah. Because real love doesn't feel like or look like control. It took me years to understand. If it feels like control, it is.

Mary:

Yeah. And you know, the the term love bombing isn't is newer. Um, I think it came some probably came from somewhere on TikTok or whatever. But I think it's a real thing, and and it's such a descriptive term that in the beginning of a relationship, if you have that happening, and this is not you, it's not necessarily universal, but if you have this sense of like everything is so intense, and he wants to know where I am all the time, and oh my gosh, look how much he really cares about me. That's not care, as you're saying, that's control.

Amanda:

Absolutely, yeah, that is, yes, and it's recognizing those signs. You think it's you're special, he's caring, and how sweet. But no, no, it's not, and I that is control, yeah, because the situation I was in had nothing to do with what I did or what I didn't do, uh, or my behavior. It was simply because my husband was a deeply insecure man that needed absolute control, and because of my lack of self-worth, I chose to accept it rather than question that. So when you've been abused for a long time, you keep on accepting it, even though you know you shouldn't.

Mary:

Yeah.

Amanda:

Yeah.

Mary:

So I'm guessing you remember when that day of reckoning came when you told him this is not what you want anymore. Yes, yes. It had to be. Did you feel scared? Did you feel excited? I

Amanda:

I felt lighter.

Mary:

Oh yeah.

Amanda:

Emotionally lighter, but I had a long way to go. And in my book, I had 43 pivotal days it took me to change my life. But these days I was pushed to my limits, I was forced to make decisions and move beyond my comfort zone to create their life. Yeah. But it was worth it. It was worth it.

unknown:

Yeah.

Mary:

I I think many women, depending on their situation, because yeah, it can be sexual abuse, it can be physical abuse, it can be all and all the things, financial, emotional. Um, I think many women find it inconceivable to be where you are, to have that sense of freedom because they are scared. They are, like you said, cut off from any financial support, sometimes emotional support of people that they need. So that's the the way that you frame it as hopeful. I think you know, that's a beautiful part of it, that you can come through it.

Amanda:

Yes. And for abuse to stop, start to believe in yourself and know your worth. You know, self-belief is is everything to change your world. Is it's a it's everything to change your world. It's easy to start blaming other people, but it's not until you know you believe that you deserve more and you won't accept abuse any longer that things can actually start to change.

Mary:

Yeah. And finding supports, like you said, even if you feel like you've been cut, you you've not invested in friendships. I'm guessing that you have someone that you know, someone in an abuse situation has someone that they can say, you know what, I I In a situation, I need help, I need support. There are places you can go, places you can call. But I think overcoming, as you're saying, like this idea of disempowerment, overcoming the shame that there are so many women every single day that recognize they're in an abusive situation, that get out of it, um, and sometimes don't necessarily um some sometimes stay. You know, so I think finding the sense stay. Yeah, finding what you need to, you know, get through that, whether it's supports, you know, outside of family and friends, um, depending how severe your situation is. But yeah, I think it's that like you said originally, like first calling it what it is, because you know, you love this person, you marry them, and all of a sudden, you know, you get this realization of wait a second, this is actually not love. So, yeah, that's an important part of it.

Amanda:

Absolutely, yeah. And it only takes one friend to to to make, you know, uh, and uh my friend said, you know, that is disrespect. She noticed it.

Mary:

Yeah, yeah, you had one person that was able to really mirror that to you, right? I did, yes, yeah.

Amanda:

You are not alone, there are safe people and places ready to hold space for your healing, whether it's a a woman's shelter, a supports group, a counselor, a friend, and someone like me, or somebody like me who's walked this path and wants to help you to to to walk beside you too.

Mary:

Yeah.

Amanda:

Yeah.

Mary:

Because part of the abuse is making you believe there's no one, that he is the only or she. He they, your abuser is the only one that is there for you. And that's just not true.

Amanda:

Absolutely. And the truth is you don't need uh permission to call it abuse. If it feels wrong, if you feel small, silenced, controlled, afraid, or constantly questioning your worth, that is enough. Yeah, you don't have to wait for it to get worse. Your feelings are valid and your pain is real. Once you acknowledge it, that is the start. That is the the the door opens, it cracks open the door to freedom.

Mary:

Yep. And you can even still love that person and understand maybe what is causing them to be that way and still decide you don't want them in your life. Love doesn't have yeah, it doesn't love doesn't have to mean suffering or giving up what you need.

Amanda:

And it doesn't no, no, no, no, but love is free, love is kind, love is uh trusting, love is uh respectful and empowering. Yeah, yeah. That's what love is.

Mary:

Well, Amanda, thank you for sharing your story. Can you please tell people where they can find you?

Amanda:

Lovely. Well, uh my uh website, if you want to go on my website, amandaj Scott.com, and that's where I have um a um blogs. If you'd like to sign up for a blog update, or if you'd like to find my book, it's sold, it's there and it's sold on all platforms. And tell us again the name of your book. Finding my way back to me. It's an easy, quick read, uh, but it's a powerful reminder that we all deserve to be treated with kindness and respect.

Mary:

All right. Well, thank you. Thank you for your story and for sharing it. And I want to thank everyone for listening. Please share this episode with any anyone who was on your mind as you listened. It could be the gentle nudge to help them feel seen or even start to believe that they too can have a different life. And until next time, go out into the world and be the amazing, resilient, vibrant violet that you are.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Mary Rothwell

Host
Head Shot

Amanda Scott

Guest