Energy & Wealth: Abundance Beyond Dollars

What if prosperity isn’t a number, but the safety and support you can count on? Mary sits down with holistic wealth coach, writer, and speaker Morgan Blackman to rethink money through the lens of energy, values, and community. We move past the spreadsheet to explore how gratitude, alignment, and resourcefulness create options—often without a dollar changing hands.

Morgan shares how childhood money dynamics and cultural narratives shape our nervous systems, why many women develop hyper‑independence around finances, and how trust and teamwork can transform that armor into real stability. We talk about gifts as reciprocity rather than debt, the rise of experiences over things, and why younger generations are redesigning work for freedom and well-being. Then we get practical: mapping values to spending, setting goals you actually care about, and building simple systems for cash flow, debt, and investing.

You’ll also hear Morgan’s Wealth Well framework—wealth wellness, wealth strategies, and wealth creation—which blends money energetics with the financial literacy schools skip. With AI and shifting labor markets, diversified income and aligned work aren’t luxuries; they’re protection. We close by widening the circle: collective wealth as a path to safer neighborhoods, stronger communities, and a more humane economy. Advocacy, mutual aid, and everyday care are not extras—they’re how abundance flows.

If you’re ready to feel resourced, not just paid, this conversation offers both the mindset and the moves to build wealth that fits your nature. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs this reframe, and leave a review so more listeners can find the show. What’s one value you’ll fund this week?

You can find Morgan HERE.

Morgan's YouTube Channel

Morgan's Substack

Chapters

• 0:00 Setting The Stage: Women, Power, Wealth
• 1:41 Mary’s Money Story And Mindset
• 2:46 Introducing Morgan And Her Approach
• 4:06 Money As Energy And Abundance
• 8:33 Feeling Resourced Beyond Currency
• 12:47 Gratitude, Values, And Goals
• 18:09 Generosity, Reciprocity, And Gifts
• 23:10 Time, Experiences, And Meaning
• 26:05 Redefining Work And Freedom
• 30:08 Hyper‑Independence And Safety
• 35:08 Race, Scarcity, And Structural Barriers
• 41:03 Collective Wealth vs Individual Gain
• 47:41 How To Start Building Collective Wealth
• 50:29 Morgan’s Wealth Well Framework

Transcript

Mary: 0:05

Welcome to No Shrinking Violets. I'm your host, Mary Rothwell, licensed therapist and certified integrative mental health practitioner. I've created a space where we celebrate the intuition and power of women who want to break free from limiting narratives. We'll explore all realms of wellness, what it means to take up space unapologetically, and how your essential nature is key to living life on your terms. It's time to own your space, trust your nature, and flourish. Let's dive in. Hey Violets, welcome to the show. So I grew up in a two-parent, single-income household with four siblings. I don't remember ever not being able to have something I really needed. And somehow my dad not only paid off the house while I was a teenager, he was able to fund a state college education for each of us. My mom went to two or three grocery stores each week, depending on what we needed, what was on sale, and what coupon she had. We never went on a vacation, except to the local amusement park, and going to McDonald's was a bi-monthly treat. No other eating out unless it was the rare visit to a diner. But I do remember going for ice cream several times in the summer. Believe it or not, though, I never had pizza until high school at a friend's house. So needless to say, when I moved out on my own, I knew how to stretch a buck. Although I never had a great paying job and sometimes had a second job in the evenings, I was always able to travel when I wanted to, and I rarely felt money pressure. But I also loathe financial planning. It gives me the ick, so I'm grateful that my husband loves it. The interesting thing is, although I was quite successful in my career, I never thought much about the money I made. And when I changed jobs a few times throughout my working life, I always made less money because I was focused on the work I would be doing, not the compensation. Yet I was always able to get promoted quickly and do just fine. So you probably know by now I don't love talking about money. I do, however, love having money that I want for my little joys, like my expensive coffee beans, pedicures every now and then, and periodic dinners at special places with one double-digit priced mixed drink. Honestly, though, I'm pretty happy with pizza and bar food too. Most of my life joys don't really cost anything because y'all know I'm a nature girl and all that. So anyway, I always felt like my work was about something different than money. And after reading something my guest wrote, I now 100% believe it. And I also have more insight about why about why I don't love talking about finances. So I can't wait to talk about all this with her. My guest today is Morgan Blackman. She's a holistic wealth coach, writer, and speaker who helps soul-conscious women confidently build wealth that's in alignment with their values, vision, and energetic design. Her signature approach blends spiritual insight, wellness practices, and practical financial strategy. You see why I can't wait to talk to her. Empowering clients to reach higher forms of alignment while healing from the emotional blocks that often stand in the way of the abundance that gets them there. When she's not coaching, she's traveling the world, diving into consciousness, expanding reads, and writing poetry, also spending time with her loved ones. Welcome to No Shrinking Violets, Morgan.

Morgan: 3:27

Okay, thank you, Megan, for having me. That was such a beautiful sort of life story that you shared there.

Mary: 3:33

Oh, thank you.

Morgan: 3:33

I really love that. Yeah, and pizza until high school.

Mary: 3:36

Yeah. How was that when you finally tried it? Oh my gosh. It was a revelation. You know, I I think probably they felt like knowing my parents who are not living anywhere, but knowing my parents, they probably thought about the ingredients and thought we could make this for $1.50. So they're they would never go buy one.

Morgan: 3:54

But right, right. I mean, homemade pizza probably does taste better than store thought. Yeah.

Mary: 4:00

But anyway, I made up for it throughout life. So I've had plenty of pizza. Um exactly. So anyway, I usually start by asking my guests to talk about kind of like the flashball moments in their life that they see that maybe have gotten them to where they are. I think so. For you, was there a narrative about wealth that you inherited and maybe you had to overcome?

Morgan: 4:24

Right. Yeah. So I mean, kind of some similarities to your sort of story or at least childhood upbringing. Um, I mean, my parents had like, you know, stable middle-income jobs. Um, we actually were able to maybe take the occasional trip once in a while. Um, but yeah, I wasn't like struggling in the sense that I wasn't sure where my next meal was going to come from. Um, yeah, I always had like the basics. Um, but then the biggest thing that stood out to me as a child was that there were always a lot of arguments about money. So that was a bit conflicting and a bit confusing because I felt like, well, I had everything I needed and anything that I asked my dad, he would, you know, get me. I was a little bit of like a daddy's girl. Um, but then behind the scenes, it's like there's all these fights. And then as I got older, I realized a lot of these fights money. Um, and mainly because a lot of the lifestyle that we were living was funded off of credit cards. Um, not necessarily, not necessarily saying that's good or bad, but um, I mean, if it does cause fights and conflict, then I guess yes, it would be more the um the former, then maybe it is a bit um of a sticky situation there and how my parents um navigate their own relationship with money, right? And maybe not in the healthiest of ways. So for me, yeah, I think uh relying on them was a different story. I think I kind of started to carve my own sort of money blueprint and understanding of money once I got my first job at 16 at a Tim Hortons. Um and yeah, that was when I was able to finally make money for myself. So it was like I'm not really relying on them anymore. I'm able to sort of make my own decisions when it comes to money. And that gives a lot of like freedom and liberation and being able to just, you know, I probably blew a lot of my money on clothes and food and makeup, you know, as like a 16-year-old girl. Like that's those were like the three things. Um, and yeah, I found a lot of freedom and joy in that. I think it was only until I sort of got into university where the financial realities of, you know, just being an adult, being more responsible, knowing that at some point I'm going to graduate and I'm going to have a lot of debt. And that was also the first time I also probably got my first credit card. So it was like, oh, you know, this is money that's not mine that I'm using to now fuel a lifestyle that I have to pay back. How can I be mindful about this? Um, and so there became a point where I realized, okay, in order to pay off debt, I have to make sure I have some consistent income coming in at all times. So I've always been sort of like the workaholic. Um, I love to see money coming in. So, sort of like yourself, having like one or two or even three jobs, you know, like certain like side hustles or part part-time opportunities to bring in more income. Um, so yeah, I feel like I'd never, you know, I got to a place, especially in university, where it was like, um, I had enough, but I always felt like I could have more, I could be wealthier. Um I felt like yes, I could take a trip if I wanted to, but um, I still had to kind of look to see if I had enough money, you know. So it wasn't like I was um completely um able to have all the options available to me, you know. And so I think maybe eventually I'll kind of get into specifically like my financial story. But yeah, those were like some of the few mindset sort of eras I call them that sort of shape me to eventually get to where I am today.

Mary: 7:54

Yeah. Well, you talk a lot about energy and money, and this is one one of the things I have several things I would like to explore with you if we have time, but I that this is that's one of the things because that resonated a lot with me because I think we can make the mistake of thinking of money as just dollars and cents. But I think wealth is different than money, abundance is different than wealth. So these are the things that I think, especially for women, can lower that, especially for me, the sense of like, ugh, like I don't like talking about money, probably because a lot of the work I've done has been human services. And to me, trying to put a value on that is very difficult. And you know, we're usually not paid well. But I think I love the I love the way you talk about it. So I want to read something that you wrote because it really named, I think, what I experience in my life, and you summed it up in a way that I was like, oh, okay, because I think for me there's been a little bit of shame around not liking financial planning, not like the whole money thing, but this really reframed it. So let me um let me read what you wrote. Okay. You wrote, abundance isn't just a balance sheet. Abundance is having a neighbor offer you a ride when your car breaks down. It's a friend watching your kids so you can rest. It's the time, presence, and love we exchange every day without a dollar ever changing hands. When someone offers to pets at your dog in exchange for staying at your house, that's money. That's an energetic exchange. When you give time, creativity, or care to your community, when you receive joy, beauty, or peace in return, that's abundance, that's wealth. I love that.

Morgan: 9:48

Thank you. Yeah. Um, maybe I can elaborate on that a bit, I guess.

Mary: 9:54

Yes, please do.

Morgan: 9:55

Yeah. So, I mean, I actually see well that abundance is sort of being the same thing. It's almost like, you know, same coin, but just sort of opposite sides. Um, yes, money figuratively, I mean, we live in this sort of 3D material world. Um, it's a resource like any other. And it's a way to exchange with someone else something of value. Um, but there are other ways to exchange something of value without having to use this currency or cash or you know what we've sort of made it up to be in this capitalist system. So when we talk about the energetics, for me, it's understanding at the end of the day that everything is a transaction, right? We give and take like this reciprocal sort of exchange. And like I said, currency doesn't have to be involved in that. So there are so many ways to feel resourced without maybe having to work or earn an income. And that does sound, you know, kind of crazy to some people. Like, how can I do that? But um, one example I like to give, I mean, you just shared, you know, my uh quote and what I had said, you know, like maybe someone's, you know, maybe carpooling with you and offering you a car ride to work. So you don't really have to worry too much about transportation or having to buy or have your own car. Um, there's kind of ways to get around it, right? And still feel resourced and sort of, yeah, get the experience sort of that you want out of life. Um, when I was in New Zealand, maybe like two, three years ago, I met a monk for the first time. And yeah, it was really random. Like I was just walking down the streets of Auckland and some girl was handing out flyers for this like yoga event. Um, and she's like, a monk's gonna be there, you'll be able to speak with him. And I'm like, sure. Like, who wouldn't want to, you know, talk to some like highly revered spiritual teacher? And so I ended up going to the event. I was able to sit and talk with him one-on-one. But one of the things that he mentioned that like really blew my mind around just someone being able to be resourced, even outside of like capitalistic frameworks, was um the fact that he traveled so much to do these speaking events. Um, but he's not allowed to accept money. Like he's not allowed to take an income. And so I was like, how like like how does that work? Like, how do you pay for your plane tickets and accommodations, you know? And pretty much he just said that he has a community of people that care for him, you know, and um maybe people who are operating obviously within a capitalistic framework that can, you know, provide for him in a way outside of that. So, you know, his his accommodations, he's probably staying with someone who maybe owns the yoga studio or is hosting the event. Um, obviously, probably would be cooking meals for him, or people in the community would bring would be bringing meals, you know, for him. Playing ticket, maybe a similar situation. So yeah, it was very interesting that like money doesn't like ever touch his hand, yet he's fed, he has a roof over his head, you know, connections. And that's what I've eventually come to understand about you know, wealth and feeling resourced. Um I really want women to get to a place where they can be resourceful and understand that whether you have a million dollars or you know, a thousand dollars in your bank account, um, it really comes down to feeling good. And that might require you having the right community, the right support systems in place in order to, yeah, in order to feel resourced and to feel good about the way that you're showing up in your life. Um, I want you to feel happy, you know, regardless of the number that's in your bank account. Although sometimes, yes, it does get to a point where you need to be making a certain income so that you can survive. But I'm more interested in now having a conversation as to how could we get creative around creating resourcefulness um outside of yeah, what society tells you it should look like.

Mary: 13:51

Yeah. Well, you're already doing something that I love. You're using different language because you're using the word resource to being resourced. And I never thought about it that way. And it's interesting because I think naturally, I think growing up the way I did, there was nothing fancy. Like I never felt like I missed out on anything because we always had what we needed. We had a clean home, we were well fed. I got in my, you know, I had to pay for grad school, which is fine. My dad at least got me started, which I realized later, not many of my friends had that opportunity. So that I think for me, I never worried like I wasn't gonna have money. I just kind of, I mean, sometimes it would be like, oh man, I'm this things are a little lean right now, but I it never like hung me up. And I think I always went into it with this idea of I'm gonna be fine. And it's it's interesting that the first job I ever had was in public schools. And it was a it was a well-paying job. I was there for almost 20 years. So when I left, I took a huge pay cut. And my mom, who had grown up during the depression, was appalled that I would do that for my my professional happiness. And it was, I never looked back. Like my trajectory in my career was were some of the best decisions I made. But that idea of how can you give up, you know, several, I mean, it was over $20,000 at that time was, you know. So I'm wondering how do you help people start to shift from like a scarcity mindset to one of like energetic openness, let's say.

Morgan: 15:29

Yeah. Um, there's a few ways to sort of approach this. Um one approach is, I mean, hearing your story, some people naturally are just a bit more on the minimalist side. Like it sounds like you know, you mentioned just having enough and being okay with just enough. Um, most people aren't okay with just enough, right? Like we live in this sort of um escalator or treadmill kind of society where you want more and more and more. And once you get to something, it's like the bigger home. And, you know. Um, so I think that's one thing is to shift from a scarcity to an abundant mindset is starting with gratitude, like recognizing what you do have and that most people have enough. It's just we're so disillusioned that you should have more and that more is going to make you happier. Um, that might not necessarily be the case, right? So for you, taking the pay cut, um, the pay cut maybe wasn't as big of a deal because, you know, it still was maybe enough for you to live, you know, a comfortable lifestyle and allowed you to focus more on the pursuits of, you know, doing something that fulfills you and that you're passionate about and that's serving others, right? Um, so another thing that we can talk about is um values, right? And I think a lot of people are spending in misalignment to their values. So um, you know, maybe your values is family, but then you maybe spent a lot of money on um things to impress other people, you know, for status. And so maybe you can shift that and say, hey, you know what? Like I don't necessarily need this to gain the approval of people that aren't important to me. And maybe a lot of this money will be best fit towards, you know, spending on my family, maybe in terms of gifts or hosting, you know, parties and celebrations and gathering people together. And then you will feel much better about your money and not feel like, why is it that I'm making maybe X amount and I still feel unsatisfied? Because we see that a lot in society. People think, well, I have to make six figures in order to finally be happy and to enjoy my life, when really it's more of a misalignment that people have with their spending and their relationship with money. So, yeah, so definitely practicing gratitude, getting clear on um, you know, what what really is of value to you. And then um, I would say, yeah, just being clear on your goals as well, too. Like those would be the three things. Like what are you working towards and why? Getting really clear on that why. And I think it's easier to get clear on that why once you have your values and you truly know yourself and why that's important to you. Then you'll start to realize, you know, maybe taking the pay cut isn't as much of a big deal. Or yes, maybe I do need to be making a little bit more so that I can, you know, really show up in the way that I really want to in my life and live comfortably. Um, but a lot of people I find and I feel like are living in scarcity because they think they need to have a certain amount of money to live this quality life, when really that that quality life might just be trying to copy someone else's blueprint, which does not fit yours at all.

Mary: 18:49

Right. Yeah. Values are, I mean, they're so important in so many things. And I think we sometimes think we know our values, and maybe we do, but we don't live by them. And I think it's a sense of like discomfort when we're not. I mean, I'm the first to say, I have a lot of pairs of boots. I am a boot girl, I love clothing. I am, I feel guilty though, if I don't buy things on sale. Like it's a weird thing, but I do love clothing. I love feeling good in clothing. But there's sort of that weird, and I think that comes from, again, growing up with you have two pairs of shoes and it's fine. And you know, so I think that's it's that's some of the hang up, um, I guess for me. But I think that idea of really aligning what is important because I know if I get too much of something, then I start to feel like, oh, this is like I need to get rid of some things because it starts to feel unbalanced. But it's funny you talk about gift giving because so my family celebrates Christmas and I buy gifts the whole way through the year. I have a relatively big family. I love that so much. And I don't spend, I don't need to spend a lot of money. I feel like it's about what I really know people. I like getting them things they'll love. I have like 35 rolls of wrapping paper because I love beauty. I love beautiful paper and ribbons and gift bags. But ever almost every year, a conversation comes up and somebody will say, Don't get me any gifts this year. I don't have enough money. And I I get so frustrated because I'm like, first, I don't expect a gift. That is not why I give gifts. But it's so funny this um, this idea we have that if someone gives me a gift, I have to give them one back. And that is not like I'm uncomfortable if you I it's not a box to check. Like when when people say it's like December 23rd and they're like, I just did all my Christmas shopping, I'm like, what? Like to me, that's checking a box. I don't give to check the box. I give gifts because I love to do it. So there's an inequality there that I think feels it's a and it's an energy, I think. Like I love that energy of giving. Yeah, but that always frustrates me.

Morgan: 21:05

Well, it sounds like, yeah, it just sounds like coming back to the uh that the art of reciprocity. I feel like some people think, oh my gosh, she's giving me something. I need to run and give that person back to sort of balance things out. But it's so interesting because not recognizing that the person's gifting you because you've already offered some type of value into their life. You know, it's like actually Mary's the one that's trying to balance out or cancel out the debt in a sense, you know, the energetic debt. Um, but yeah, so often people are like, oh my gosh, you've gifted me something. Now I need to like rush and find something and gift you. And yeah, it is hard, especially with the holidays coming up. Um, I feel that pressure sometimes too, because I've gone through seasons where I maybe didn't have um as much money as I'd like in that season to gift in the way that I normally would. Um and I have a lot of nieces and nephews, and I'm like, please, none of my brothers and sisters have one more job. Give me a chance to catch up. Um, but yeah, and then you know what? Like some of the best gifts I've gotten um didn't like money wasn't involved at all, or like very little. Like, I I had a friend one time, one of the best gifts, it was like, oh, how do I explain it? It was almost like, you know, those movies where in a movie, but like someone gifts you like maybe like a box and a box and a box and a box, and you kind of have to like keep pulling things out of it. Sort of feels like a magic trick where you're just pulling all these tissues out until you get to the actual gift. And my friend had something similar like that, except it was like a note under a note under a note, and it was like just all these lovely things that she admired about me. And then when you get to the bottom, it was like $20. But honestly, like I didn't even care if there was $20 at the end of it. It was just, you know, just the words. So sometimes like even just a heartfelt letter or a card. Um, you know, maybe something that you already have in your home. I always tell people, especially around the holidays, like just get creative. Like maybe you have things around your home that, you know, can be reused and or turned into a gift without feeling like I have to go out there and buy something. Um, but yeah, I think it's really just like you said, it's just gifting should just be coming from the heart. It's not like an expectation. And so many people feel like, oh, I have to, yeah, I'm expected to buy something, to give someone something, even if I may not have it. And it's, you know, how can you get creative in finding maybe it's offering your time, you know, volunteering or yeah, so many other ways to give people. But it is interesting that you mentioned that like exchange, people really get caught up in the making sure that like it's balanced out at all times right away.

Mary: 23:44

Yeah. Yeah. Or how much should we spend? It's like, hey, yeah, dude, I find things on sale. So, but you know, you talked about time, and I think it's it is it's being creative. So I think about again this energy. And thank you so much for saying that, you know, I feel like these people have given me something because again, I never perceived it that way. And for some reason, like just talking about this, it feels like a little emotional, like it because I think it's so important to me to how I put myself into the world. But when I think about time and being creative, like if you don't have a lot of money in December, then give me a little voucher and we will get coffee five times in the year. That will cost you 20 bucks. So I think it's just thinking because time to me, especially as you get older, is more important. And I know, like my sister did this to for some of my nieces last year. She didn't give them a physical gift. She said, pick a place and we're gonna spend the day together. I love that. So I think that's where you have to think outside the box of what is a gift, because a gift is just you're giving something that has energy, doesn't have to be a exactly. So I love that.

Morgan: 24:53

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I love that too. Actually, you're making me think of um even I feel like I've noticed I've noticed this lately amongst um millennials, Gen Zs, and how they spend their money. And a lot of people are having this shift um with you know, spending on physical things and shifting more into spending on experiences and moments and memories, you know, versus just like this one item that you buy and then like maybe you never wear it again, or you know, it gets thrown into the back of a closet. Um, so I find it really interesting. A lot of people are starting to recognize and value um just people and and community and spending quality time with loved ones.

Mary: 25:32

Yeah. And having worked in a college, I I retired from Penn State, but I spent a lot of my career working, my later career working in college. And I've seen that shift in just looking at what does money mean to young people? What does working mean to young people? And when they when this trend started of like, you don't stay in a job for 25 years, you know, it's it's horrifying to the older generation, but it's this nimbleness of like, well, I'm not really satisfied here. And it's a whole mind shift. And I think along with that, there's a total mind shift in what does it mean to make money and how I do it.

Morgan: 26:09

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, a lot of younger people I find want more freedom, flexibility. Um, exactly what you said, like this whole idea of retiring at 65. You know, you go to school to get this job that you're in for 30 years and then you retire comfortably. Yeah, a lot of millennials are like, no, I don't want to be sold that dream anymore. I want to live life now. Like I remember someone mentioning, like, what's the point of waiting until 65 when your health is probably not the best? You know, if anything, you should be living your best life at 20, 30, your 40s, when you're like able-bodied and, you know, um, for most people, hopefully, are, you know, able-bodied and able to do these things and to travel. Um, so that's that's part of the work that I do. It's like, how can we enjoy your life today and not wait until you're 50 or 60 or 70 to enjoy it? Um, and I think a lot of younger people are getting creative and in figuring out what that looks like, you know. So with COVID, um, a lot of people switched into working remotely. And then after COVID, a lot of people realize no, I I really do love this balanced lifestyle of being able to, you know, maybe not be glued to my computer, you know, eight hours out of the day. You know, I can kind of break that up and go for walks and like truly integrate self-care um and travel. I could be working from a different country. And so um the options sort of multiplied, you know, for people and people realize, oh shoot, like they've kind of been selling us this one linear way of living life, and there's so many different ways to do it now. Um, and as yeah, and and as long as you know what you want and what you value and how you know your money should be aligned in alignment to that, then I feel like it's it's more than possible than ever to really create that abundant, sort of flexible lifestyle that creates that freedom that most people want.

Mary: 27:59

Yeah. And when you talk about energy or meaning for for money, I think when we look at older generations, they did have a rough time. I mean, it was exchanging work for money often, hard work, you know. So I think there's a there's a memory of that. And I don't want to get too far into epigenetics, but we carry certain things on our genes and it expresses or does it's not a genetic change, but sometimes that that hard work that, you know, I need to get this much per hour because I have to feed my kids, and there were so many different things involved in what was work. And now as we open up into this whole new world of, like you're saying, like we can work online or we, you know, for me, I miss actually working in person. I loved having a staff, I loved going to work. And now I could, you know, I retired, I decided to do my own business, I didn't have to. Now I'm actually looking at going back to work for someone else because there are things that I didn't do that I want to do. And so I think for me, it's always exploring. But I want to take a little side road here because one of the things that I noticed in some of the things that you talked about is this idea of women feel hyper-independent with money. Because let me tell you a little bit about. So for me, I remarried less than three years ago. My husband's a little bit older, his wife had died. Um, I always supported myself. Even in my first marriage, I was the one that, you know, really sort of financed the family. So he brought a pretty decent income with him. So my whole world shifted. And at first I was like, I want you to keep your money separate. He's like, what are you talking about? I'm like, because I especially building a business, like, I want this to be my money. And he's like, well, I don't think about it that way. So for me, that's been a big journey of seeing, of allowing someone else to give things to me that actually ease some of my decisions. Making so what is your take on this? Tal talk a little about why women have this issue.

Morgan: 30:07

Okay. Um so personally, I think for me as a woman, um, I can't speak to everyone else. I have an idea as to why other women feel this way, but for me personally, I think there is um a distrust amongst maybe sometimes women and men. I mean, growing up, seeing a lot of conflict between my parents, seeing a lot of conflict between the other woman in my family and the distress that men cause. I have like my own kind of wounding around, you know, relationships and men. And I think for me, my hyper-independence came out of not wanting to rely on somebody else and someone to have that control over me, right? So if I'm not making any money and this one person is the only person making money and contributing to the household, they're gonna have a larger say. Um, and I feel like I'm at risk of, you know, my own safety, um, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, physically, because this person has so much more power um in this sort of dynamic. And so I think for me, the hyper independence came out of I never want anyone to have that opportunity to abuse me or to, you know, have that control. And so it's important for me to make sure that I'm financially independent. But then there is it, it does come to a point where sometimes um, yeah, then you don't want to ever open yourself up to maybe someone contributing or helping because of that fear that might not necessarily be true or necessary, right? And that's something I've had to, as I've gotten older, um, you know, a part of my sort of um healing that wounding around men and dating and relationships is learning to trust and that I don't have to do everything myself. And that, you know, often we work better as a team, you know, like when we talk about collective wealth building and community, um, that's that's a part of it, right? Finding a teammate, finding a partner that can help ease some of the burdens financially, spiritually, mentally, emotionally, right? So I've had to come to learn to know, yeah, it's okay to maybe share finances, or there will be seasons where maybe you're making more, or you know, your partner's making less. And then there's another season where they're making more and we're making less. And it's it's really at the end of the day about really coming together and just being more resourceful together than separate and apart. Um, and I think for most women, um well, for some women that might also be their story too, in terms of like that hyper-independence and feeling like they have to do everything themselves. Um yeah, and then for um other women, it could just be um maybe they I don't know, maybe they just feel like they don't have that support system, and so they have no choice. It's really just, you know, it's it's you know, maybe they're single mothers, you know, that really don't have much of the support system. And so that's all they've known is to kind of fend for themselves and to um maybe not ask for help because maybe they feel like they could just do things better or there's no help available. So that's yeah, that's sort of just their situation, and that's all that they can do. But at least for me, I can yeah, that's that's sort of where my hyperindependence comes from and how it relates to money.

Mary: 33:34

Yeah. Well, and I think it's being let down too. Sometimes it's like, well, I'm just gonna do it myself, or or I sort of went into this second marriage thinking there's always scorekeeping, but there is not with my husband. And I had to get used to that. It wasn't like, well, you bought this, or you know, like, well, why did you do that? We have never had an argument about money. And I think it's just getting used to that idea that sometimes there are people out there that do have that generousness of heart. It's just, and he sees money. He loves the financial planning part of it, which is great. But apart from that, he doesn't see it as transactional. It's more just like this is our shared ability to make life decisions, which is really beautiful. So the other part of this with women, do you feel like women of color especially have a harder time with the hypervigilance or okay?

Morgan: 34:30

Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah. Um, yeah, definitely black women once again. I think there's more of this narrative of um not feeling safe um amongst um maybe specifically men or just not feeling supported. Um, yeah, there it's it's always been a conversation within the black community of um this larger scarcity mindset of like not wanting to support someone else, because if you support someone else, they're gonna get ahead and you're gonna fall behind. Um, and you know, of course, we see this in other spaces as well, too. But I think it's very um predominant within the black space and community. And it could be, you know, a range of things. Um, one of those being collective trauma and um slavery, and already just black people feeling farther behind. So it's like we're sort of in a space where we're trying to catch up, um, you know, to those who have more privileges. And so it's like I can't afford to, you know, have this other person do better than me or make more than me because I have a family to feed and I'm trying to get ahead in this capitalist system. Um, so I feel like that is where a lot of maybe, you know, the the hyper independence is kind of rooted in um for black women specifically. And yeah, just like I said, as well, just like not feel like they have safe spaces when it comes to relationships. That's a whole nother conversation as well. There's a lot of uh domestic violence and abuse um and cheating within the black community as well. A lot of black men are incarcerated. Um, I shouldn't at least say it a lot, but there there is a you know, um a significant percentage. I'm not really sure what the percentage is, but I do know I would probably say between maybe like 30 to 40 percent of black men are incarcerated. So that's like another issue where there are a lot more um single family homes, a lot of single black mothers trying to navigate that, which can be hard financially. So yeah, um, definitely I would say black women really do struggle when it comes to their finances and finding support systems for sure.

Mary: 36:37

It's really complex. And I think with all of this, it's what are we bringing historically to the table, to our way of thinking? And really, if we talk about women as a group, we're often set up as competitors anyway. There's just, you know, we're we're competing. I think uh again, historically, it was we're competing for men, which that was the resource because in the United States, it's only been 50 years that we could coast like sign for a loan just for ourselves, buy house a house for ourselves, a credit card, exactly. Yeah. So there's a lot, I think, that being aware of what we carry with us and understanding that someone else's experience is not our own. I mean, you brought you bring up a lot of things that obviously I didn't experience, but I think there are shades of that just as being women, but there's so much deep, there's such a deeper um aspect to it because again, we've seen grandparents and parents and friends, all of these things that were sort of part of our specific community impacting this whole narrative of what is money and what is safe. You talked about safety, which is really important because I've talked to women in abusive situations and we don't talk about financial abuse, but why are women stuck a lot of times? Because they don't control the money. So I think we can get into a lot more, which we don't have time for today, but I think it's a really fascinating discussion to have some grace with yourself. And when we see someone else struggling, it's not like, oh, why didn't you learn this in school? Can't you like add and subtract and budget? And it's way, way more than that.

Morgan: 38:16

Oh deeper than that.

Mary: 38:18

Yes. 100%.

Morgan: 38:20

Yeah.

unknown: 38:20

Yeah.

Morgan: 38:21

Yeah, for sure. Sorry, yeah, to cut you off there. Yeah. And I I think that's something I didn't speak on um in quite detail. But yeah, women relatively have not been financially independent. Um, it's only been maybe the last, like you said, a hundred years or so, or yeah, between 50 to 100 years, where you know, women increasingly have stepped into the workforce, are starting to make an income for themselves, have you know the flexibility and the freedom and the options now available to them to do what they please with it. So yeah, it is relatively new for us. Um, and so definitely we do need to show ourselves, you know, a lot of compassion and grace for maybe sometimes still getting it wrong. Um, but yeah, I think there's something really beautiful to that to, you know, to really earn money and manage our money and live our lives in a way outside of what, you know, this oppressive system once taught us what it should look like. And no longer women feeling like, well, I can only just stay at home and cook and clean. Like, no, I could do so much more. I can contribute so much more to this world, and money just allows me to do even more of that on my own terms.

Mary: 39:29

Yeah. And ironically, we end up thinking we have to do everything. I think there are women that they choose to stay home and raise their kids, and that's the legacy they're putting into the world. There are also women that think, well, I do have to raise the kids and I do have to go to work and I do have to clean the house. And so, yeah, again, uh conversation for another day. But one more thing I want to explore. You mentioned something about collective wealth. So can you talk about collective wealth building versus individual wealth? What does that mean?

Morgan: 39:59

Oh, yes. Okay, I get so excited for this topic. Um, so yeah, it's just individual wealth is focused on your own pursuits towards wealth building and feeling abundant. But so often I feel like we we live in a world now where it's very hard to care about why it's just as important for your next door neighbor to feel just as abundant and wealthy and to check in in our community and our loved ones. And the reason why I say this is because inequality is continuing to grow um on a global scale. And I feel like with more inequality, there creates more division. And I mean, without getting into the politics of this world and where things are heading and going, um, well, actually, I I do kind of want to touch a little bit on that. But yeah, you know, the the increasing division, the wars, right now, I feel like, you know, there's um when there's more inequality, when there's you know richer people, a small percentage of rich people, and the larger population, a larger percentage of people becoming increasingly poor and being pushed into these margins. Um you'll find a lot of people will start to point fingers. Well, what's the reason for this? Oh, it's it's it's women, it's immigrants, it's you know, um, it's it's it's black people, indigenous people, like, you know, we start to point fingers. And really, I think what we're going through right now is really just a class war. Like a lot of people just are struggling financially. And out of that, like I said, creates it it it stems um, or out of that, it creates, you know, more violence, wars, um political division, and people seep into, you know, going further left, further right. Um, and crime, like a lot of people can attest to that. I know there are so many studies that show um in areas where there's increasing where there's significant poverty, there's a lot more crime, right? And you know, someone coming from the black community, sometimes we call this the ghetto or the hood, you know, it's and that can eventually spread. And so even in Toronto, downtown Toronto, there's been a lot of like random crimes lately. You know, there's like a seven-year-old woman the other day just getting groceries out of her car, and someone just came and like stabbed her, and we're seeing a lot of these like random attacks. And to me, when I see things like that, I really look at, I really think it comes down to finances, and a lot more people are struggling. And with a lot more people struggling, you're just going to see a lot more crime, violence, all of that. And so the collective wealth conversation is talking about well, if that is the case, and we know that inequality, wealth inequality creates more division and crime and violence, then we all have an individual responsibility to ensure that our neighbors, our friends, our loved ones are equally as well off and taken care of. Right. And even it comes back to that spiritual understanding of reciprocity. Capitalism is, in a sense, it I don't think it its foundations were built on some people would argue it's not really built on exploitation. I think the theory or the foundational theory around what capitalism was supposed to be was that it was supposed to award people the freedom, the rights, and the liberties to, you know, pursue um their own vocations and also to own property, right? It was all about you can go and own whatever land that you want and start whatever business that you want and do whatever you want with your money, which is great. But really, what was supposed to happen too is that the rich are supposed to redistribute their income to create that balance and to avoid that wealth inequality. But of course, humans have found ways to corrupt that and to take advantage of the system and to exploit it. And so now we're in a situation where the rich can find loopholes and maybe not pay taxes and all of that. And so the wealth doesn't end up being redistributed. And so the wealth inequality continues to grow. And that's sort of the late-stage capitalism that we see today and the you know, the steep um corruption that we're sort of experiencing. So for me, it's like just as much as I love to empower women to build wealth for themselves, how can we also ensure that with that wealth comes great responsibility and ensuring that we help uplift everyone else around us, too? I mean, it doesn't, I mean, what kind of life would it be if it was just one person living on this earth and having all the resources to themselves, you know? Um, I think that there's more than enough resources, more than enough abundance in this world for everyone to have their equal share. But it's just so the system that we're in creates this illusion that there's not enough. And so this collective scarcity sometimes funnels down into individual scarcity. But if we could start at the individual and have people realize no, there's more than enough, we all could be equally resourced. And how can we create a society in a world where where we ensure that everyone else has the ability to see it that way and has access to that and is able to also build out wealth in a way that feels good?

Mary: 45:14

Yeah. Well, I think you're right. I think the system started with a good intention and with a lot of things, it started to have um sort of underpinnings that would marginalize people. And, you know, I'll say for the third time, a conversation for another day. Um so if somebody's hearing you say this and it's really resonating, how might somebody start to shift that mindset towards something that's more like a collective wealth idea?

Morgan: 45:45

Yeah, I love that you asked that. Um, so many ways. So, like one way is to just advocate, to speak up, to, to, to help educate other people. Um, you know, for me, like being a holistic wealth coach, um, that that is one of my parts, right? Is is is teaching people how to be financially abundant and resource, financial literacy, a lot of these, you know, the practical aspects of building wealth we don't learn in school, right? And so I feel like that's kind of where I come in. And I'm sort of doing my work to help the collective to wake us up, to realize, yes, you know, building wealth is important. This is how you do it. Here's step one, two, three. But then also just as important is how can you feel good about the money that's coming in and the work that we choose to do with this world and show up and ensure that it's in alignment. Um, another way is to donate if you do have that wealth available to you, is to donate money, but also, like we explored earlier, donate your time. You know, you can volunteer at a shelter. Um, yeah, with the homeless, uh, food banks. So yeah, there's so many other ways. Um, but I think it really comes down to advocating when you can, donating your time, your energy, um, and just sharing what you know, your family, your loved ones, what you're learning about money, abundance, you know, all these great conversations and topics that we covered today, and just really just enlightening people.

Mary: 47:13

Yeah. Yeah. Share the episode, people. That was that's that's what that means. Well, what a great conversation this has been, Morgan. Can you tell everyone a little bit more about what you do and where they can find you?

Morgan: 47:28

Yeah. Um, so you definitely can find me on YouTube at Morgan Blackman, my website morganblackman.com. And I also have a Substack at uh the Wealth Letters, um, which you can find. It's better to kind of probably find it through my website or my YouTube. And um, yeah, so I'm a holistic wealth coach. Uh a lot of the work I do is centered around um working with clients one-on-one or in a group setting. So um actually one of my major signature offerings that's coming up is um my wealth wall course. So it's sort of two-part, twofold. You can either take it as a course or you can um enroll in like this group coaching program. It's the group coaching version of the course, and that's going to be rolling out in like the next few weeks, um, closer to the holidays. Um, yeah, and that would be like my signature way of working with me. I have this framework called the wealth well. So we look at wealth wellness, which incorporates um money energetics. So a lot of what we spoke about today, um, identifying your values, goal setting, manifestation. And then my second pillar, we would usually shift into wealth strategies. So that's like everything that you didn't learn in school, right? The financial literacy piece. And then the last stage that we usually shift into or the last pillar is um wealth creation. So, how can we get creative and how we bring in different types of income? Um, and how can we, based on your energetic blueprint, figure out like how you're supposed to serve in this world, like what your purpose might be for some people who are maybe struggling with that? You know, a lot of people maybe are in jobs that don't feel satisfying or don't feel fulfilling to them. And so we explore like what that can look like. Um, and I think that's also actually really important. I know we, you know, maybe you won't be able to dive deeper into this right now, but um, in the way that the world is kind of shifting with AI and a lot of jobs being replaced, I think it's more important now than ever to um understand what it looks like to have different forms of income coming in and to not just have all your eggs in one basket. Um, because if a lot of jobs are gonna be replaced, then how are we gonna earn an income? And so, yeah, I think you know, starting to really embrace the idea of um, you know, part-time sort of vocations that can bring in an income, maybe starting a business and you know, investing, things like that to sort of get creative and then have money coming in a different way. So that's that's what we explore and like the last the foundational piece of my course, um, or as part of the framework, my wealth well framework. So that's pretty much kind of what I do and and where you can find me.

Mary: 50:14

Well, and I will link the resources in the show notes so nobody had to scribble anything down that you said. And what what important work you do? And I think we need to start to, first of all, women have so much power that we don't recognize. So I think empowering them in this way, it sort of feels like the sort of the last chapter because that's where we've been kind of um kept down the most, or I call it, you know, shrinking. We shrink. That's why I'm I call my podcast No Shrinking Violets, because take up your space. And I think we've not known how to, or we weren't able to till 1973, fully take up our financial space. So now we have a lot to catch up on. And I think the way that you combine your knowledge, because of course we do need the practical part. We need to understand how do you plan, but all of that underpinning it, the energy and the mindset is, I think is you cannot divorce that from any of this. And so I think what you do is so valuable. And I love that you were here today. Thank you for being a guest with us.

Morgan: 51:17

Oh, I appreciate that. Thank you so much for having me. It's such a great convo. I hope this is helpful to your audience when they take something away.

Mary: 51:25

Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure. And I do want to thank everyone for listening. I'd love if you'd take a minute to rate the show or leave a review. On most streaming services, you can just scroll to the bottom of the episode. I know it's confusing, um, but you can leave a review usually at the bottom with some comments. And until next time, go out into the world and be the amazing, resilient, vibrant violet that you are.