Owen Miller on the Flow State and What It Really Takes to Develop Players

Owen Miller is the co-founder of Flow Soccer, a year-round player development and mentorship program based in the Boston area. He played college soccer at UMass Lowell, where he served as team captain, before spending six months in Spain coaching a gap year program and observing academy training at Villarreal, Valencia, and Levante. Back in the US, he served as a volunteer assistant at Boston College and worked in the club system for several years before stepping away to launch Flow Soccer with co-founder David Gydus.

In this conversation, Alf and Owen cover a lot of ground. They discuss what Owen observed in Spanish academy training — the efficiency, the tight spaces, the coaching philosophy of loading instruction up front and letting the game run — and how that shaped the way he approaches sessions today. They talk about what Owen found frustrating in the US club system, from the geography of elite travel to the toll it takes on coaches and families. And they dig into the concept at the heart of Flow Soccer's identity: the flow state, as described by psychologist Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, and how Owen builds sessions specifically designed to help players reach it.

The conversation also covers Flow Soccer's no-questions-asked pricing model, the program's partnership with Boston Scores, the importance of mentorship for young men, and why Owen believes a good coach's job goes well beyond what happens on the pitch.

This one is for youth coaches, club coaches, and anyone who's ever asked what it really means to develop a player. Hit play and enjoy the conversation.

For more information about CoachCraft, visit https://coachcraft.info.

Transcript

Owen Miller  

I was a psychology major. I wanted to be a therapist. That was like, if soccer didn't work out, which it didn't, I guess, as a player, ⁓ I was like, I'm going to be a therapist. And ⁓ I even got into a counseling program a year after college, mental health counseling. would have been, you know, two year program and then would have been a licensed therapist. And I decided to stay in the world of soccer and try to use soccer as a tool of psychology. Now I'm not trying to make it sound like I, you know, am able to work through things like mental illness or any of that kind of stuff through soccer. But at the same time, I do think that the point of therapy is to try to improve someone's life. And the point of coaching, think, should actually be the same exact thing. And so ⁓ the reason I coach is not because I love tactics and all that kind of stuff. I do love all that stuff. But the main reason I coach is because I felt that coaching young men and boys ⁓ is how I could reach people and truly make an impact on them. Because young men who are soccer players is someone that I was not too long ago.

Alf Gracombe  

Welcome to CoachCraft. My guest today is Owen Miller, co-founder of Flow Soccer, a year-round training and mentorship program in the Boston area. Owen played college soccer at UMass Lowell, where he was team captain, before spending time in Spain coaching a gap year program and observing academy sessions at Villarreal, Valencia, and Levante.

Back in the U.S., he worked as a volunteer assistant at Boston College, coached in the club system for several years, and then made the deliberate decision to step away and build something he could fully stand behind. In his relatively young coaching career, Owen has already seen the game from a lot of different perspectives. What makes Owen a compelling guest isn't just his soccer background, it's also how he thinks. He's a former psychology major who nearly became a therapist, and he brought that lens with him into coaching.

In this conversation, we talk about what he observed in Spanish academies and why it changed how he runs sessions, what frustrated him about the U.S. club system and why he walked away, how Flow Soccer's no-questions-asked pricing model actually works, and the concept that gives the whole business its name, the "flow state", and why Owen believes it's the key to developing players and keeping them in love with the game. And now here's my excellent conversation with Owen Miller.

Alf Gracombe  

Owen, welcome to the CoachCraft podcast. It is great to have you here.

Owen Miller  

Thank you so much for having me. been watching it for just over a year at this point, so I'm really happy that I'm finally to go on as a guest.

Alf Gracombe  

Hey, excellent.

Well, thanks for the quick promo right at the outset here. Great. Well, Owen, I'd love to just start any conversation with just a little bit of background about you and your journey through the game of soccer. Take us back as far as you'd like. I know you've been playing since you were a kid.

Owen Miller  

Yes.

Alf Gracombe  

You played at the collegiate level and then ultimately have moved into coaching. So maybe kind of take us up a little bit of your background up to that point where? your coaching journey began

Owen Miller  

Totally. So I started playing at the age of four, played Medford, grew up in Medford, Massachusetts. So I grew up in the Boston area. I now live in Somerville, so not too far from there at all. Grew up playing town soccer. When I was, I actually kind of jumped around a lot of clubs. My first club was this club called Boston Blast. I only played there for a year. I then moved to Sachem's, which is in Winchester now called SFC. And then from there I was playing for this club.

called AC Arlington, and it was this kind of people who this was around

the early 2010s when I was playing there and the team was crazy. was a, you U13 team and I think at least 10 of those players ended up going on to play division one. So it was a really, really strong team of kids from Somerville, Arlington, Medford, Everett, that whole area of really strong players. It kind of disbanded once the level started to get all higher up and recruiting and all that kind of stuff. from there I was playing at Boston Bolts for a bit. And then in high school I decided to step away from playing Academy, which

is now called MLS Next because I wanted to play high school. So I played high school soccer all four years at Medford High. It was an incredible experience. On top of that, I played at NEFC. It would have been what now is ECNL. It was called something different then. I'm not that old. I graduated high school in 2017, so I'm making it sound like this is a lot longer ago than it was. yeah, I was able to really have a good experience.

playing at a really, really strong club in high school where most of us went on to play Division I, if not high Division III, and then a great experience at the high school level as well. From there, I graduated.

I joined UMass Lowell, so stayed local. It was also a great decision there. Had kind of a crazy career there, a lot of highs and a lot of lows. Dealt with a lot of injuries, but ended up, I think, overall having a really enjoyable career. Ended up being the captain my last year and a half there. I was...

It was a weird time to be playing college soccer because my junior year is when COVID hit. eligibility started to get really weird and all that kind of stuff. But as injuries went on and once I was 21, 22, I started to realize that there's an eventual.

end to this game and I started getting into coaching. So coaching started actually my interest in it started happening during COVID when I tore my ACL. I started just studying the game, doing some private one-on-one sessions and I was falling in love with it and so I was doing little things here and there covering sessions at you know small group trainings and things like that and when I graduated I

I actually moved to Spain originally was to try to keep playing. But my last game against University of Vermont in 2021, I tore my meniscus and I was just like, I'm done. You know, I can't keep doing this. was, we can get to the injuries maybe at some point in this podcast, but it was over and over and over again. So I just ended up getting into coaching and really haven't looked back. So I was coaching in 2022 in Spain at this gap year program called Eture E-T-U-R-E. From there I coached at, I moved back to the States.

I coached at Boston College for a season, so a little bit.

About six to eight months I was there for a really cool experience working with goalkeepers, even though I was a center back, coaching on the sideline of some really big ACC games. ⁓ And then from there, I shifted to division three level where I'm the assistant at Emerson College in Boston. So I wanted a little bit more of a role and want a little bit more of an impact. And I also wanted to really focus on youth. I think at the division one level, hard to, it's really intense, the coaching lifestyle.

And so it's hard if you want to stay in the youth game and I wanted to so I spent one year at this club Abbey Villa and then two years at IFA New England Where I was working with youth and since then I've spun off of I've left the club scene and I now do I run my own business called Flow Soccer and I would say I'm at the first you know 26 now and I'm at the first point my coaching career where I'm really understanding the direction where I'm going and It's it's been amazing. You know, it's only been four years that I've been coaching full-time but

I have not looked back.

Alf Gracombe  

Yeah. So, you know, it's interesting. You mentioned like, are relatively young, and you have a lot of your coaching journey and time in the game ahead of you. But at the same time, you actually have experienced a lot of the soccer ecosystem, not just here in the U.S. but also, some of your, you know, being overseas and we'll talk about that in just a second. but, so anyway, I'm looking forward to just.

picking apart a few of these, these things from your own experience. and just, you know, kind of real quickly, cause you mentioned just back to your high school days and not to linger here too long, but you said you actually stopped playing the academy club level football and you were, for soccer and you were playing just with your high school team and your high school ages. Is that right?

Owen Miller  

Yeah, so I was still playing at the club level with NEFC, but I decided, so when I was in eighth grade, I had the decision to continue playing at the academy slash MLS Next Level. And actually my old coach at Bolts, who's now the head coach at BC, then moved to NEFC and he said, he told me, listen, this will be a really cool opportunity. You'll be able to play high school soccer. The level will be just as high. ⁓ I was really burning out actually as a player with MLS Next Level. I'm just gonna say MLS Next,

Alf Gracombe  

Mm-hmm.

Owen Miller  

wasn't called it then, but it was you know nine-hour drives for one game and you know I was falling behind in school and all this kind of stuff and I found myself a little bit falling out of love with the game and this decision to play both high school and and it's still at an elite club level was it was difficult because you're told that if you want to continue to make it in this in these ranks or whatever it may be you have to stay at this level but it was one of the best decisions I made in my playing career.

Alf Gracombe  

Yeah, well, let's definitely return to some of these themes because I think they certainly tie into the work you're doing today with Flow Soccer and you're working with a lot of high school age and some early college players as well.

You know, it's less than 10 years ago that this was the life you were living, but I imagine maybe the landscape has even changed some since, since that time. And you'll have some good perspective on that, but let's, before we get there, if you can maybe talk a little bit about your, when you went overseas and you were in Spain and what you learned there and how that was part of your journey

Owen Miller  

Totally.

Hmm.

Yeah, mean, to be honest, was everyone always says like how incredible was Spain and what's been amazing and it was at the same time it was kind of difficult because I didn't really know what I was doing with my life. I didn't really know what I was doing with my career and everyone usually has a very.

strict ending to their career. They know when it's done. It's either the last game of their high school, last game of their college or professional level. But I was still kind of wanting to play pro and rehabbing this injury. And so I was just kind of lost in what I was doing. And I learned so much from just being thrown into the deep end in Spain, to be honest. I was able to...

witness and attend so many different academy level sessions. I was able to start running sessions on my own and it was, I would not be where I think I am right now in the coaching world if it wasn't for just this experience. I think that nothing beats experience. So to answer your question on some of the things I learned, think on the first, the first thing I learned as a coach itself, and I don't think this is unique to being in Spain, but you need to fail. Like you really need to fail. I remember when I was playing,

I think I thought I knew everything about coaching. Oh, coaching can be so fun. It's gonna be so easy. All these coaches do this wrong. I can't wait till I just do this. I watched a YouTube video on how to run this session. This is gonna be so easy. And then I remember starting to run sessions and they were so bad. I tell this story to my friends all the time, but like, I remember being told by one of the Spanish coaches, like, hey, can you run a possession session tomorrow? I was like, yeah, sure, no problem.

Alf Gracombe  

You

Owen Miller  

I started doing it and right away I made it way too tight because, you know, it was maybe I was used to doing it the same size I was doing it at as a player at UMass Lowell where the players really lead all that kind of stuff. And then I would do a passing pattern the next day and.

someone asked me like, when I play the ball, where do I go? And I was like, I actually don't know this. So like it would, I would have to break down training all the time. It'd be really embarrassing. And it was really important for me to fail on that because then it forced me to kind of over-prepare my sessions and also, and we'll get into this probably later at some point, but like it, I'm so intentional about how I structure my sessions. And I think from my time in Spain of just being like tossed in. And I think, I think in Spain, they kind of have this understanding of everyone knows how to coach. Everyone is really good tactically. And meanwhile

Meanwhile,

I'm just there like I had, I didn't have any licenses, have anything along those lines. So that was one of the first things I learned was learning to fail. And yeah, I don't know if you want to comment on that or we can get into more of the Spanish methodology. Yeah.

Alf Gracombe  

Yeah, well, it's a theme

that's definitely come up in other conversations. yeah, I think just to, I think a quick point on that is I think failure and you know, it's.

That's a strong word, but sure. Let's just say, know, this is this, session failed or in that moment, you know, I was failing as a coach. I think the only thing worse than, than failing and then frankly failing is part of the process to, to your point. But I'd say that the only thing worse than that is not recognizing that there's failure or that you're coming up short or that there's room for improvement. Right. So, you know, I think any coach out there listening, this is just part of coaching. Preparation is totally important. Everybody agrees on that, but also.

Owen Miller  

Mm-hmm.

Right, right.

Totally.

Alf Gracombe  

be prepared for things not to go as you expect and be willing to learn from them self-correct in the moment as much as you can or afterwards reflect and then you know bring that into your training the next time around.

Owen Miller  

Totally,

Yeah, yeah.

Alf Gracombe  

So great. So how long were you in Spain?

Owen Miller  

I was there from, it would have been January to June, so about six months in 2022.

Alf Gracombe  

And what age groups were you working with over there?

Owen Miller  

so interestingly enough, I was working with a gap year program of American kids. So that age group was, you know, 18 year olds to 19 year olds. And so what they were doing is that they came from America all over America to play in Spain for a year and they would be training every morning and then they would be placed into different clubs based on their level, throughout the Valencia region. and so I was training with them or I was coaching them. So 18, and then I was also the assistant coach of this.

Seventh Division team called Vilamarxant which was a mixture of Spanish and American players and so that was that was similar age group but More a little bit older a little bit more adults and we were playing against, you know full-grown men at that point

Alf Gracombe  

So we were talking a little bit beforehand and you mentioned getting to observe some training sessions with Villarreal and Levante. ⁓ Can you talk a little bit about kind of what you saw, what you experienced and how, what you learned from witnessing that?

Owen Miller  

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it was incredible to be honest. Like anytime I go back there, I dying to just watch these training sessions. And and Valencia as well. all three of those, so where I lived, I was actually really close to Valencia's training grounds. So was able to watch them, Villarreal and Levante, like you mentioned. The Villarreal training sessions were the best person. Like I thought it was so fun to watch. And so they have this giant setup of

all these different fields where the different academies train or where the different age groups train where the U-23s train. I actually was watching Nico Jackson train then with VRLB and I was kind of looking at like who is this guy like it you know it was he was playing the third division of Spain at that time and you could tell he was incredible but some of the things I noticed was just the efficiency in training and this was amongst all across all three of the academies that I mentioned but they're so efficient with their time they're so efficient with

At the beginning of each training everything's already set up and I think this is a lot easier when you're watching these clubs because they have the full field to use but they have every single every single thing is already set up it's every coach has a stopwatch and the players will drink water for 30 seconds very briefly and then they're straight back into the next drill and it's so so efficient every single Session that I watched there was some positional game Whether it was a rondo one of them like the word that we use here in America

Alf Gracombe  

Right.

Owen Miller  

or

maybe England as well as the training game across the river. That's so common amongst every single academy I watched in Spain. So for those that don't know, there's essentially three teams you're playing possession. One team is in the middle. They send a couple players out to press and you have to get a certain amount of passes before you can break the line to advance. That's almost a standard warm-up for every single Spanish team that I watched. But their level of...

Alf Gracombe  

Hmm.

Owen Miller  

ability to their first touch, their tactical ability to know when to find the third man, when to break lines. It was just things that the coaches didn't really have to coach. Like it was already ingrained into these players. so, so yeah, those are some of the similarities I saw across all these sessions was the efficiency, the similar drills, the positional play and yeah.

Alf Gracombe  

And

so were you seeing this across all the age ranges that you observed? Yeah.

Owen Miller  

Yeah.

All the age ranges, yeah. I wouldn't

watch. When I go back to Spain next, I do want to take a bit further of a look at the younger age groups, like U13, U14. I wouldn't say I watched them as much, but yeah. And then the other thing was just like training in super tight spaces. Like they're so comfortable in such tight spaces. I remember watching a Villarreal U19 training session and it was pretty much probably a third of the field in length and probably a third of the field in width.

and it's 11 v 11 and there's three zones and the coach is right in the middle and I'm trying to figure out like what is the purpose of this drill exactly and but they're just so comfortable in these tight spaces and you know I think that that's honestly what I was learning is like

historically and especially within the past 15 to 20 years, the most technically gifted players very often are from Spain. look at you look at Isco, you look at Xavi, you look at Iniesta and I think that their form of training technically growing up is in these playing in these tight spaces. I don't think it's necessarily just passing activations or

training around cones, things like that. It's these rondos, it's these possession drills, and the more comfortable you get, the more challenging you can do the drill.

Alf Gracombe  

Is that something that was made explicit to you when you went there in terms of, you know, kind of getting prepped to step out on the field with, with players, you know, in these environments, or was it more just something you kind of observed and learned? And I'm curious also like kind of how I think you touched on it a little bit earlier, but like,

What are coaches doing in those moments when is it really setting up the conditions, letting the players play and let the game be the teacher or how are you seeing the coaches engage with the players during those sessions as well?

Owen Miller  

Yeah, I mean the first question, no, I really wasn't being told like, you know, I wouldn't say that and this isn't like a dig at anyone or anything, but I wasn't really like taught a certain methodology or any of that kind of stuff. I was just trying to learn soccer or the Spanish style of soccer just through observation. And honestly, like through

people like Todd Bean, not in person, but just listening to podcast. That's kinda how I picked up, oh, I see what's going on here now. So I think that that was kinda my way of observing. I also, a lot of college coaches would fly over to recruit Spanish players, and so I remember, I won't say which program, but I was with a really strong Division I program, the head coach, and we were going around watching different training sessions, and...

He's one of the top D1 coaches in the country and we were watching, it was a fifth division Spanish game or training and he said every single one of the, I would take every single one of these guys on scholarship. And just on a technical standpoint, it is such a different game, but yeah, I was just kind of observing this. I would notice like, this drill is way tighter than we would see here. These guys are way more comfortable in this tight space right here. So, and then what was your second question there?

Alf Gracombe  

well.

just the coaches and kind of their, did you see any patterns or consistency in terms of their engagement with players during these training exercises?

Owen Miller  

yeah.

Yeah,

I do think that honestly, at least from my observation, they are pretty hands on in Spain, to be honest. I think that a lot of people criticize how much coaches are hands on right now and how rigid these patterns are within training and all this kind of stuff. If you watch one of these teams play, if you watch against maybe a...

another local club that's not a La Liga team, you see that the attention to detail in their movement is so, so precise that there's no other way to really train that without being hands on. So I will say this, the coach doesn't stop training very often.

Alf Gracombe  

Hmm.

Owen Miller  

They, which I love and I take that so much into my, way that I train. He's not every, every 10 seconds freeze like never, never do it. You see that. But prior to the drill and the restrictions within each drill, there is a lot of, a lot of detail. That being said, it feels like the,

players in Spain have such a good tactical understanding that by the time they're U19, you don't need to be giving them as much information. It's a lot easier for them to take in this information within two minutes rather than 10 to 15 minutes.

Alf Gracombe  

Yeah, no, it's really interesting. Good. Well, let's pivot if we can over to back to the U.S. and, you played at the college level, you've coached at the college level. and then you've coached, you know, with, with the club system here in the U.S. and you left that system and I.

You know, my son played for you. I'll just say full disclosure here for a season. And that was your last season coaching in the club system. So I'd love to hear a little bit your perspective both on.

Owen Miller  

Yep.

Yeah.

Alf Gracombe  

coaching within the club system and then where you saw an opportunity to do something different and to start Flow Soccer a little bit about that pathway into what you're doing today But but start if you can with with the club system here

Owen Miller  

Yeah,

and I'm going to try to be as political as possible here. Okay, yeah, okay, great. No, but I also think it's important to highlight some things.

Alf Gracombe  

You can be as diplomatic as you like. Yeah. Let's just start by saying like

the U.S. system, it is multifaceted. It's easy to point to, you know, where there are flaws or where, you know, think anybody who's involved in the youth game here

will have plenty of sort of criticism about it. So I think this conversation, I'm very curious to get your perspective and like, yeah, sort of pull no punches. You know, this is all in the service of trying to improve the systems more broadly, but yeah, sorry for interrupting. Go ahead.

Owen Miller  

No, totally. Yeah.

So yeah, so I coached full time. It would have been the fall of 2020.

to until the spring of 2025. So that's when I was fully involved in the club game and it was one season with Abby Villa and two seasons, two full years with IFA. And I did decide to step away with my decision came in around April of last year and I officially stepped away in June of last year. So the I will start by saying there were a lot of really enjoyable experiences. Like I, you know, you mentioned coaching your son, like that team that I coached last year, I had two

teams, different U19 teams, different level teams last year. And I loved every single player that I coached. And so the memories that you make there and competing and having a common goal, I think was really, really something that I will always keep with me. And it was one of the reasons why it was a bit difficult to step away. But at the same time, it definitely felt like it was really needed for me to step away because I did find a lot of things within the system that I didn't necessarily love.

I think there were certain things that were restricting me in my regular life that the club schedule wasn't really allowing me to do in my regular life and And then at the same time I wanted to create with Flow I really wanted to build something so I'll get to kind of that transition but highlighting some of the things that yeah, I mean I think

Club soccer in the US, there's so many different umbrellas, right? And so when I say that, I mean there's the MLS Next level, there's the MLS Next 2 level, which last year was called NAL. There's ECNL, which is a whole different umbrella that it's under. There's still NAL. And this is just on the boys side. Yes, I actually have not coached club on the girls side, so I don't know as much that system. And I also don't know how the girls side differs from Europe, but I do know that here...

Alf Gracombe  

This is just on the boys side. ⁓

Owen Miller  

These clubs are massive. These clubs are absolutely huge. Some of these clubs have 5,000 players there. There's so many different teams within each club. There's so many different tournaments that you're coaching in every single weekend. And I felt that it didn't necessarily align with how I thought development should be happening.

I have an example, was talking to a family the other day and they told me they were driving and I won't say where, but they're driving eight hours this upcoming weekend to play one game. And they're playing one game. Last time they played that team, they won 11-0. And so they're gonna drive eight hours to probably win 10-0 again. And so there are things like that within the club system that I just couldn't get behind. And it was also just like taking a toll on me as a...

work-life balance and all that kind of stuff. So it was not sustainable and I do think that club soccer needs to exist. I always say that Flow Soccer is supplemental. It's not instead of club soccer. But I could not be working for something that I just didn't agree with how the system is being done. I enjoyed my time at both of the clubs that I worked at and I enjoyed the people there and I truly mean that. But it was more above that in the system that I struggled to see the

point in driving to Maine for one game when maybe 10 players on the other team show up and things along those lines. I had to step away because I wanted to build something, a place where I could still develop players while still believing in really what I'm doing.

Alf Gracombe  

Yeah. And so I think just to reflect a little bit more on the system and your experience in it, I think there's, mentioned development, player development, of course. And, you know, the club system can certainly help.

players develop, like you're getting game time, you're getting, you know, hopefully a strong peer group for, for, for players to be a part of, and you're hopefully getting good coaching. So that's the player development side, but what about the coach development side? Like coaches within this ecosystem? I mean, I know it's not like the highest paying work typically. and just, you said you were coaching two teams, right? So,

Owen Miller  

Yeah.

Yeah.

Alf Gracombe  

Just the time commitment and the like. So you mentioned it, but a little bit more about that. how much, in a given season at the peak of the season, you know, it's 10 to 12 weeks or what have you in terms of tournaments and games. Like how is your time being allocated?

Owen Miller  

Yeah,

it's also like I want I wanted to make it a really good experience for both of my teams. And so if you want to if you want to make it if you want to go through the motions, that's one thing. But if you want to be sending set pieces before each game, if you want to be sending your defensive structure, your your mid block, all that kind of stuff before each game, if you want to be communicating with the parents as much as possible to make sure that there's no complaining and all that kind of stuff. It's

It's a lot of things that I don't think people understand how, how, I'm not trying to make it sound like I'm a doc . . . It was like a doctor or anything difficult like that. was teaching soccer, so I'm not trying to make it sound like I was in the military or anything, but I think what people don't understand is like how much these coaches are really putting in and how quickly coaches will burn out because of the system, right? Like if you're trying to have a family or if you have a family, it's really difficult to say, all right, kids and wife, I'm going to be gone for the next.

Alf Gracombe  

Yeah

Right.

Owen Miller  

two days because I'm playing one game and you're there.

more often than not, four to five nights a week. You're driving at the peak of traffic and I was, you know, I live in Somerville last year, I was coaching in Westwood and West Roxbury. It could get up to an hour and 15 hour, 20 minutes just for one training session. And so I don't think that people realize that like, you're actually putting in more than 40 hours a week, even as a part-time coach. I remember a parent called me last year and they were, what do you think your work like 10 hours a week? And I was like, you have no idea. ⁓ And not to mention,

Alf Gracombe  

Yeah.

Owen Miller  

dealing with parents. Like that is something that I was very, I was very.

Calculated on how I dealt with parents as you probably remember I would send lots of emails on when you can contact me on the fact that you cannot complain in the Group chat the app all that kind of stuff But nonetheless like when you're putting in so much work and you start to get complaints from parents about playing time or or a session getting canceled due to snow It hits you because you're so burned out And so I'm not gonna lie like I don't like I really don't want to sound like I'm complaining too much here But it's a lot. It's a lot

of work and the same reason why people say that we don't have any good teachers because of the pay because of the schedule because of the because of the the complaints it's the same thing for coaches and one little thing on this that I find interesting like I actually don't think that necessarily coaches need to get paid so much more than they already do but it's if you look in Europe

in this is what's different is the coach at Levante, the U-15 coach, he's probably a baker in the morning. Like this is not even his full-time job, but he's not flying to IMG twice a year and then Delaware at the same time and this and that. So like if we kept everything much closer together and we didn't have eight tournaments a year, we wouldn't need to be, you know, didn't need, we need to be increasing these coaches pay.

Alf Gracombe  

I think that's such an important point you're making as well is the higher you get in terms of, I I saw this with my own son's experience. played, you know, town soccer, grassroots, and that's great, but like, you know, you're going to get a smaller handful of players who were very serious. and so to strengthen your peer group, you go to the clubs to get more training sessions, you know, during the week, you go to the clubs and it's great. But.

It does also start to expand the geographic scope of where you are going for practices for games. And, you know, to your point, like for those who don't live in the US or don't know this area, like traveling from the Boston area to, you know, New Jersey or Delaware, it's not trivial. Like it's a overnight.

Owen Miller  

Totally.

Alf Gracombe  

event and it's, it's, you know, there's, there's costs that go along with it and there's time. So, and you're asking the coaches to do all that. So that's a really interesting observation. And just in terms of how the sport has been a little bit more localized, it sounds like in Spain as an example. Okay. So.

Owen Miller  

Totally, totally.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Alf Gracombe  

You had the experience in the club and certainly, you know, you were doing that for a long enough time to, kind of know what you liked and also know just wasn't kind of fitting into your own life and your own development as a coach. And, this was around the time, you know, that I got to know you as well. and Flow Soccer, what is it and, who's attending your programs and participating in it. And, yeah, just tell us about Flow.

Owen Miller  

Yeah, so Flow Soccer it's a year round supplemental training organization and mentorship program that we've, David Gydus my business partner, we started it officially, officially a year ago, but we've been kind of doing some things

on the side similar to what Flow turned out to be for the past couple of years. so what it is, is it's like I said, it's year round and the schedule depends or the schedule changes depending on the season. just like we have summer season, fall season, winter season and spring season. And so the way that we do it is that

pretty much every week of the year you're able to train. You're able to go to a certain number of trainings based on the membership you have. Part of these trainings, no matter what the season is, involves a free pickup soccer thing that we do, whether it's futsal in the winter or street soccer in the spring, summer and fall. We do do street soccer. And then on top of that we have...

college placement, college advising, all that kind of stuff. And we do community Zoom calls. that's another part of our, the people that are part of our organization is that we do.

Zoom calls, we go over tactics, we go over mindset, we have guest speakers that were, we've had a division one college coach come on, we had a high school coach come on that does a lot of work within the community. And so we try to make it so much more than just soccer. We try to build community here and I don't want to even say the Boston area, the Massachusetts area. And there's a lot of different components and moving parts of the business. yeah, hopefully that's the best way to summarize it.

Alf Gracombe  

Yeah. And, I love what you guys are doing. I'll just go ahead and say that outright. So, I may, might not be the most unbiased perspective here, but you know, my son plays, with Flow Soccer and, I've sort of seen it. I know a lot of other kids, know, friends of his, of kids that I've coached that, that are playing with Flow and, you know, one of the key challenges anywhere, but certainly in Boston, you know, I live here in the city and I've been coaching in the city.

is access to the game. And how do you look at that with you've got kind of a range of kids and kind of family situations that are, you these kids are coming to play. There's a lot of talent out there across the whole socioeconomic spectrum. But how do you look at opportunity for players to continue to play at a high level? You know, this is again, mid to late high school years.

Owen Miller  

Hmm

Alf Gracombe  

What have you seen and kind of how that plays out and then what does Flow do to speak to that?

Owen Miller  

Yeah, one of the most beautiful things about soccer is that...

is nothing that talent has nothing to do with your socioeconomic status. And I wouldn't say that that's necessarily the case for every sport. Right. I think if you look at a sport like hockey or if you look at a sport like lacrosse where it requires a ton of equipment that you have to buy, learning how to skate things along those lines, I'm not trying to get dig at hockey or anything. But when you look at soccer, it just involves a ball and maybe cleats. so across the world, it's some of the poorest areas in the world produce some of the best talent. But it also doesn't mean that you have to

to poor to produce talent and to have talent. So we work with players and families that are across every socioeconomic status that you can imagine. with, know, kids that have never eaten out. They've never, I took two players to Chipotle about a year and a half ago and they had never.

Gone to Chipotle. It was as if we were taking them to a five-star restaurant. And then there are kids who could take a private jet to one of our trainings. And so we really do have a wide variety of socioeconomic background and I think that the status, socioeconomic status within our players. And so I think that's one of the really cool things about soccer and what we're trying to do is to tie all of those worlds together, right? I grew up in a city, Medford, Massachusetts, that is very diverse. And when I say diverse, I don't just mean race. mean,

I mean religion, mean socioeconomic background. It's the same thing when I work with your son and his friends. It's, you know, people from the city. Every different type of person comes together and soccer is what ties them together. we, within our model, within our business model, we kind of have a no questions asked approach where we have a price for what it costs to train with us per month. But we have never not allowed someone to train with us due to their

finances, not once. And so the parents that are well off, they're able to pay the full price and not once have we sensed any dishonesty or any of that kind of stuff. And there are kids that pay 50 % and then there are kids that pay next to nothing. And so fortunately we've been able to make it work. mean, we always say like, we didn't go into this to get rich. You're not a soccer coach to get rich, but to be able to make this our full-time thing.

this model and I think that it's sustainable and when I look at that I wish that more organizations across the world did things like this. I'm not just saying in soccer but in all these different type of things. I I've seen how the wealthy have access to so much education-wise, extracurricular, all this kind of stuff. that's one of things we really pride ourselves in is the no questions asked policy.

Alf Gracombe  

Yeah, and I think, you know, people should understand the economics that are in play with regard to the game and access to it for players. And, you know, I applaud what you're doing, you know, and I think that's something every program that's offering.

Owen Miller  

Mm-hmm.

Alf Gracombe  

Anything should should should have their eyes on and you know, people are only going to be able to maybe, you know, do it so much. Everyone's trying to run a business, make a living. Uh, that should definitely be honored. Um, but I think, know, anyone participating in a program or running programs just should have awareness about the economics and how they can impact it. But you've been very strategic about this. I know you offer, I love Free Flow Fridays. Uh, just from a branding perspective is awesome. Um, but that, you know, those are.

Owen Miller  

Hmm

Yeah.

Yeah.

Alf Gracombe  

kind of more open, right? And kind of anyone can participate. And then you've got, you know, the more structured, maybe paid sessions. And then you've also done some partnerships, I know, here in the city with just, you know, field space is always a challenge for any, anybody running any soccer programs. How have you kind of gotten access to space and partnered with, with different groups here in the city or otherwise?

Owen Miller  

Well, this guy Alf Gracombe took me to meet at Boston's

course, so that helped a lot, but no no no

Alf Gracombe  

I wasn't looking for...

Owen Miller  

So honestly, to

answer your question, like it is a it is a grind. Like it is something that I don't think a lot of people from the outside, especially kids like, but also parents, I don't think people understand how hard it is to get access to a field, let alone a field that's affordable. Like it's always funny when a parent says, why don't we just do this field right here? And it's like an indoor field that costs $1,500 an hour to rent. And I'm like, well, because every giant corporation has access to that field and we wouldn't have a business if we tried to run once

Alf Gracombe  

Yeah.

Right, right.

Owen Miller  

session there. it has honestly taken David and I a lot of digging to really get build strong relationships with these fields. And we there's a couple different areas I want to touch on Boston Scores in a second. But just starting with where we went throughout the winter, we were in three different locations and they were you know, one was pretty far north of Boston. One was just south of Boston near where you live. And it all comes from just

Honestly, just reaching out like I was pulling my hair out in the fall indoor spaces in the Boston area and we were able to stumble upon. I there's this one place that we rent just south of Boston where I actually know the manager pretty well. I coach his son and so he's been super helpful for us building that relationship with him. He's he's he's really helped us a ton. And then the other one it's it's somewhat of a smaller space. It's indoor turf and this is much more north of Boston and one

of the things with that is like it was affordable and even though it was a tight space we were like we're gonna make something work we know we know how hard it is to get or how often club soccer gets canceled in the winter and all that kind of stuff so we're like we're gonna get creative with our training sessions we're gonna make sure kids are still getting reps in this tight space and and we were able to do that so I think that that's one of the biggest things is like really expanding your your network building good relationships with these

with these different people that run these facilities. And then the last one that we use is Boston Scores. So we partnered with Boston Scores, which is a nonprofit in East Boston, but does work all throughout Boston for underserved communities through the game of soccer. I don't want to pitch them because I feel like I might not do them justice, but we have a wonderful relationship with them. they've really generous with giving us access to their fields. And in return, we've done a lot of work with them.

We often take a lot of their players from different areas of Boston, like East Boston, Chelsea, Mattapan, and Madison Park as well. And then we've also done some work with them, some workshops going over just education, not just soccer, but what it looks like to, know, as a first generation college student, maybe someone who is undocumented, how to help them navigate the college process and things along those lines.

So yeah, it's definitely something that I think people have no idea how hard it is to get access to fields. Yeah.

Alf Gracombe  

Yeah, and I wanted to mention it is part of the economic equation of the game. It's an issue everywhere, but particularly in the cities. So, you know, for anyone who's involved in policymaking or

Owen Miller  

Right.

Alf Gracombe  

you know, capital expenditure around developing field space. Like I assure you more is needed and every anybody who coaches like yourself or the work I do here in the grassroots town program, it's an issue in every, it's every level of the game, the youth game for sure. So you talked a little bit about Flow and the work that you and David have done and your reasons.

your personal reasons for starting this. And I'd love to explore a little bit about, there's a gap that you identified in the ecosystem. And I'd be curious to hear what is that gap that you feel like you're filling with Flow

and why a young player would want to participate in your programs at Flow.

Owen Miller  

Totally. Well, I think there's two sides. I think there's the soccer side and then there's the psychological side, right? And so I think on the soccer side, of course we do try to be really intentional with the way that we train. I don't ever want to make it on the fact that like I'm changing youth soccer in the U S or if you go here, right? Like we're going to get you to go pro or any of that kind of stuff. I don't want to be too transactional in that sense. But we are on the soccer side. We do think that we wanted to provide really

really specific training to what happens in the games. so when we're training without, when we're training, when we're doing unopposed training, we try to get a lot of different position specific stuff. And so what we'll do, we did a lot in the fall is that halfway through the session, David and I split the groups up, the defenders will work with him, the attackers will work with me. We now have a goalkeeper coach and we try to get game specific reps in as much as possible. So things along those lines that aren't necessarily what you're getting at the club level aren't necessarily things that you can replicate on your own.

And then the other thing is that we want it to just get as much playing in as possible, right? So if you see our sessions,

from 40 to 50 minutes of the session is playing. are often conditions, there's often restrictions within the way that we play, but there is no better way to train any component of the game than playing. And so I think, obviously in tight spaces, it's really good because you get more comfortable with the ball, but we vary it. We do some things in tight spaces. Sometimes we open up the space to work on their fitness, but we don't feel that there's enough playing going on in, I don't know if it's the US, I don't know if it's the world in general,

But playing is how you fall in love with the game, right? And stopping training as little as possible is how you get better within the game. And so we think that what's unique to us on the soccer side of things and what's different on the soccer side of things is the...

the amount that we play and the amount of attention to detail we have with our training sessions. So it varies. We work on a lot of different things. We do the same thing every session, but the bulk of it is allowing the kids to express themselves on the field as much as possible.

Alf Gracombe  

So Flow the name itself, ⁓ talk if you can a little bit about that concept and flow state, I believe is what it relates to, yeah.

Owen Miller  

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Totally. Yeah. Yeah. That's

actually why we named it this is because of kind of what I was just talking about in the concept of flow state. There's a book called Flow I cannot pronounce the guy's name but it's a Russian name. Very difficult to pronounce but I would encourage anyone to look it up. Yes. Yes. Exactly. Exactly. But the flow state is it's something that

Alf Gracombe  

We'll put it in the show notes and I won't make you spell it.

Owen Miller  

My interest in the flow state started when I was reading a book called Ikigai. I-K-I-G-A-I. And what this book was about, this book actually was more about these areas in Japan where people live longer. And they started talking about the concept of the flow state. And they said, one of the indicators of when you're in the flow state is when time passes by really quickly. And it started, you know, it talked about how very seldom right now are we in the flow state because of things like...

notifications that are popping up because of all those kind of things. And so in the soccer world, the way that you develop is by getting into the flow state as much as possible. Now, there's actually almost a

method to getting into the flow state, right? And it's when you're thinking as little as possible, it's when you're more just doing and everyone has been in this and it's not just playing soccer, it can be anything, it can be having a conversation, it can be reading, but it's when you're kind of you're almost in this, you're almost an autopilot, your body's just kind of doing everything and I remember as a player, I would hate it when I would stop training every every 20 seconds when

when the coach had to make a point here or there, or when the coach was giving me these exact movements that I needed to do, that would take me out of the flow state, right? And so an incredible way to develop, an incredible way to enjoy things in life is to enter the flow state. And in order to enter the flow state, it's a balance between extreme challenge and extreme boredom, right? And if you're too challenged, that's when...

quote anxiety comes in. say it says anxiety in the book. It's not necessarily the stereotypical word of anxiety, but that's when stress starts to kick in is when things are too challenging, right? For example, if I did 11 the 11 in the 18 yard box, right? Way too challenging. It's difficult to enter the flow state too easy is when you're maybe playing against players that are nowhere near good enough for you or the drill is too easy to score in. And so you have to find that balance where they're getting challenged, but it's also they're able to do it with. And so I feel that that flow is how you

develop. The flow state is how you develop in anything in life and it's how you also enjoy it while developing. I don't want development to be something that is felt like as a task. I want it to be something that you enjoy doing, right? And so getting our players to enter the flow state as much as possible is the goal of each and every single one of our training sessions.

Alf Gracombe  

Well, that was my next question is as a coach, and this is the goal in terms of getting the players into the flow state in your sessions. OK, so talk about.

how you react or don't react during a session to help players reach that and then maintain this flow state throughout. What advice as a coach do you have for... Because I think you've talked about these tensions really well, right? Like too much challenge, too little challenge, too much stopping versus maybe not enough information for a player to help them get to the next level. So as a coach, what do you do?

Owen Miller  

Mm-hmm.

Well, I try to have a small amount of different drills that we do each training session. So probably two to three, maybe four sometimes. So I don't want, if within an hour and a half session, I don't think we should be doing seven different drills. I don't think we should be doing six different drills. I think it should be a small amount as possible because then you're able to have enough time to get in the flow state, right? So if it's a passing activation, a...

rondo and then playing with some conditions. Those are three different drills that will give you 20 to 30 minutes that will allow the players to get into the flow state. So that's one thing. Another thing is stopping training as little as possible. I still think it's very important to stop training to make points, but

when I was doing my UEFA C licensing out in Scotland, that was the criticism that the coach had to me is that you stop training way too much. And he was this, I forget his name, but he was this pretty big time coach in Scotland, my evaluator. And he was like, do you know how many times I stopped training? And he said, two, the whole time and training, I stopped it two times. And I don't do it that much. I don't do it that little. I do it closer to four times, but.

You have to let players figure things out on their own, right? You don't want to be a, some people call it a PlayStation manager where they're just like playing PlayStation joystick, right? They're having their, so as a coach, another way to help your players get into the flow state in order to stop as little as possible, be as prepared as possible. If you're very prepared in what your coaching points are going to be, then you can say them at the beginning of the drill rather than needing to stop it and say it in the middle of the drill. So if you're really intentional about how the session or how you want to, how you want the session to go,

That's another great way. And the last way, and I'm very intentional about this, is the way I make the teams. I always make teams and people don't understand this, but I am very intentional about the teams that I make. I try to make them as even as possible. I also try to pair players up.

For example, the player is someone that complains a lot and will maybe break down a team or any of those kind of things. I'll try to put him on a team with someone that does the opposite or someone that is really encouraging or someone that might help him win because that will the more complaining, the more asking about calls and only can break down the flow state. So there's a lot of little things that I do that I try to make it as as easy as possible for the players to get into the flow state.

Alf Gracombe  

Yeah, and I love that. And I want to return to this topic in just a sec, but real quickly, flow state, you talk about it for the players, what about for the coach? How do you look at that?

Owen Miller  

Good question.

I honestly feel that I'm often in the flow state when I'm coaching. so like I had something last April really difficult happened in my life and I was actually nervous to coach because I was like, what's going to happen? Am I going like break down? Like what's going to happen here? And I didn't even notice it when I was in, when I was coaching. And so that's a really good indicator of being in the flow state. I love, like there is nothing I enjoy more than when I'm out on the field with the players. one thing I do is I, and the players that are maybe watching this or know me know, I

I am very humorous with the players. I try to be very banterous with them. I make a lot of jokes. I try to make them laugh as much as possible, make it as enjoyable as possible, because then it's still really fun for me. I think...

I think when you start to see success within your training sessions is when you start to feel like you're in the flow state. You have an intention of how the drill wants to go. Let's say it's a transition drill, 2 v 1s and the players are overlapping to create space and finishing it almost every single time. You're like, okay, nice, this is working. yeah, mean, think the intensity, I don't know where the science is here between how intensity relates to the flow state, but I'm super intense in my training sessions and anyone that goes will know that I am very demanding.

Alf Gracombe  

Hmm.

Owen Miller  

in the sense of I need everyone talking, need everyone encouraging each other, all that kind of stuff. And I guess this maybe goes back to the more of the player side of things, but I call very little fouls and I'll tell the players that don't complain about fouls. I'm going to call them as little as possible because A, I want you guys to be able to deal with adversity in the games. But B, the more I call fouls, the more the play stops and the less you guys are in the flow state.

Alf Gracombe  

Yeah.

I always come back to like observation as a coach, like really like there's the conveying information, the talking piece or setting up your sessions or whatever it may be. But then there's also the more, let kind of taking information in rather than putting it out to the players. And when you observe players

being really tuned into what the players are doing, even if, you know, how they're executing is not lining up with their intention, but recognizing their intention. how do you see that idea of coaches and observation of players and, shifting from the, I'm giving you information, I'm asking you to do something to, okay, now I'm watching you do or try to do the things that, we're setting up in the practice.

Owen Miller  

Totally.

think that that's definitely like one of the most rewarding things is when the kids are actually like curious about what's going on and you you introduce a concept like maybe the third man to them and to them they're like, what's that? The third man, what does that even mean? And then you're starting to do a passing pattern and to them they're like, okay, this is just a passing pattern. And then once you start to try to explain like, hey, this is why we're doing this. And then you get into training and they're at least trying it and

it's executed two to four times in that drill. It's like, yes, they're getting it, you know? So I think that that's, that is definitely something that is, is nice. And what I was doing a lot last year is I, when I first started coaching, I would find a drill on YouTube and I was like, I need to do this. And last year I was actually structuring my drills based off of what I just talked about. So like if I want to do something like working on finding the third man, when, when, when we're in the middle third, something like that.

I was like, all what if I just made this middle third, we're playing, you know, 7v7 to goal, but this middle third is one touch. I would do things like that. And so naturally this person in the middle has one touch. They're going to lay it off to the person that's running as the third man, and then they're going to find them. I would kind of, rather than introducing the topic, I would kind of let them find the topic from there. ⁓ And I do try to ask questions in between. I'll say like, why do you guys think I added that? Why do you think I did this one touch? And often they'll say things that I didn't even think were, were, were

Alf Gracombe  

Hmm.

Owen Miller  

right, it worked. Like for example, someone will say like, you know, it forced me to play quicker or something like that. I'm like, that's true. Right. And, and, at the same time, it's like someone else will say like, finding the third man. I'm like, bingo. And so, I do try to sometimes structure it and for them to find the solutions through the structure of the training.

Alf Gracombe  

Great. Well, I love kind of peeling back a few layers on the sort of technical and the training side of things. I want to talk a little bit about the psychological, emotional side of youth development, player development, specifically teenage boys or young men. One of the things when, you know, you were

Owen Miller  

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Alf Gracombe  

first started coaching my son and I think I saw a post that you did on LinkedIn that was a repost of I think of Jonathan Haidt or Haidt, might be pronouncing his name wrong, article and it was around, you know, tech, social media.

Owen Miller  

Mm-hmm.

Alf Gracombe  

and kids and development. There's been a lot of research on this, certainly, and specifically around young men and boys. How does, well, two questions. How does your work specifically, you know,

kind of fit into that, or how do you orient around that set of issues? And then more broadly, like how can sports or soccer specifically help young men, boys develop not just as players, but as people?

Owen Miller  

Yeah, it's a really important question. And I think...

unbeknownst to many, I was a psychology major. And so I was, I wanted to be a therapist. That was like, if soccer didn't work out, which it didn't, I guess, as a player, I was like, I'm going to be a therapist. And I even got into a counseling program a year after college, mental health counseling. would have been, you know, two year program and then would have been a licensed therapist. And I decided to stay in the world of soccer and try to use soccer as a tool of psychology. Now I'm not trying to make it sound like I, you know, am able to work through things like mental illness or any of that

kind of stuff through soccer. But at the same time, I do think that the point of therapy is to try to improve someone's life. And the point of coaching, think, should actually be the same exact thing. And so the reason I coach is not because I love tactics and all that kind of stuff. I do love all that stuff. But the main reason I coach is because I felt that coaching young men and boys is how I could reach people and truly make an impact on them. Because

Young men who are soccer players is someone that I was not too long ago. And so I've been in their shoes. I can relate to them as much as possible. And so what David and I are trying to be to these kids more than anything else is just good mentors, right? I think that that is the most important thing. We can run a bad session here and there. can, we may not, you like I said, you're not going to, there's a very slim chance that you go pro. But at the same time, we are here to make an impact on you through.

just being a good example when we're there. Right. And I think that that's one of the biggest things right now. And so when I say being a good example, it's you know, we try to show them that we care about them. We try to push them and develop them through kind of tough love in a way, but also show them that we're here for them, you know, making ourselves accessible to them and all that kind of stuff. But right now, what I think boys are lacking is good male figures.

right in the world. And I've spoken about this. don't mind speaking about this on a podcast. I don't think it's necessarily politics, but the male figures that are out there in the world right now online are really dangerous. Right. And so there are the the Andrew Tates of the world, the what they call the Manosphere. There's actually a documentary on Netflix that just came out that I finished about an hour before I got on this podcast. But ⁓ but right now.

Alf Gracombe  

Yeah.

Owen Miller  

we are lacking community in our lives. And so when you lack community, you're going to go to an online community. And if you're struggling in your life, you're being told by these male people, these, these Andrew Tates, these red pill guys, that women are the problem and that the matrix is the problem and all this kind of stuff. And it can be really dangerous because it's actually reaching these young boys. And so what

Alf Gracombe  

Yeah.

Owen Miller  

What David and I are trying to serve as here is good mentors to these kids because right now I think that a coach doesn't realize the impact they can have. know, some of the most impactful people in my life have been coaches and so we are really trying to be intentional about being the right role models to these people when we're with them. And I think, I said this once somewhere, but like the word discipline, the root word of it is disciple. And so if you're a leader,

the best way to discipline them is to lead by example. It's to not by punishing, but it's to lead by example. so, hoping that when David and I are out there, the players are learning from us on how to communicate with others, how to talk about others and all that kind of stuff. So I know that was kind of a long-winded answer, but yeah.

Alf Gracombe  

No, listen,

I'm in violent agreement with you. Thank you for even naming names, right? Like we're in the midst of this just, you know, this war that our country has started and you've got figures like our president or, you know, secretary of defense or war, whatever he is. And this like male posturing, this, this glorification of violence, this desensitization to other people's

Owen Miller  

Yeah.

Yeah, right, right.

Alf Gracombe  

pain. Yeah, it's it's crazy. Like, let's name it right like like like, and thank you for doing that because this is stuff that kids are getting exposed to and young men. And, you know, at best, it's confusing. Right. And at worst, it's, it's a lot, a lot, lot worse. And so you talked about

Owen Miller  

Right.

Right, right.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Alf Gracombe  

You know, mentorship and just the example that you and David are trying to, you know, provide for these, for these young men. And, know, you're, you know, between what eight to 12 years kind of older than the kids that you're working with. So I think that's really important as well as that, you know, again, a reason for, people who are, know, young adults to get involved in coaching, because you really are able to reach kids in a way that, you know, like I'm a 55 year old man, like I'm not cool. You're a lot cooler than I am. Let's be honest. And so, you know, you're going to be able to connect with kids.

Owen Miller  

Yeah.

Alf Gracombe  

in

a different way than I can. It's not that I can't, it's just that your experience is closer to what they're currently living through. So just a quick plug for anyone who is thinking about getting involved in mentorship or coaching or teaching, when you're in your 20s, that's a great time to really help kids who are in their teens. And then secondly, you talked about community and I think maybe touch on a little bit.

Owen Miller  

Totally.

Alf Gracombe  

What are some of the non-negotiables for the kids that are in your or young men that are participating in your program when they show up? What are the things that you are expecting of them, requiring of them? And then how does that community kind of self-reinforce?

Owen Miller  

Yeah, so I think that one of the biggest requirements is...

I don't want anyone to think that they're above or below anyone. I think that that's one of the biggest things that I want within our community, within Flow. We work with some really, really good players.

What I want when these players are there is I want them to be leading other players. I don't want them to be throwing their hands up every time someone else takes a bad touch. I have said this is that no matter how good you think you are, you're nothing compared to Lamine Yamal. And I say the same for myself. No matter how good I think I am, I'm nothing compared to the best coach in the world at all.

learning that is I want every player who's here, if you are the best player and you're playing with one of our youngest players or one of our most inexperienced players, you treat them just like you would another good player. And that goes for anything when I overhear their discussions.

I don't want them talking down on different forms of education. I don't want them talking down on different forms of of parenting or any of this kind of stuff. Like I do try to and I'm not trying to say this in a like heroic politically correct way. I don't mean it like that. I mean that we everyone who at Flow I want everyone to see some every single person here right right in the middle. You don't see anyone is above you. You don't kiss up to anyone is above you. We also don't look down on anyone that's below you. So you know one of the things about Flow and like we can definitely edit this part out.

⁓ I there's a book called Legacy ⁓ Have you heard about this book? Did I mention it recently? So it's it's about the All Blacks, which is a the New Zealand ⁓ rugby team and One of the things one of the rules that they have is no dickheads and so that's that's one of the rules that we have right if you come and train with us and you're the best player in the world, but you're misbehaving you're complaining at every single player you're talking, you know bad about every player when they're not there You're not gonna be part of our program. So that's the biggest thing within

Alf Gracombe  

You

No, I don't think so.

Mm-hmm

Owen Miller  

community who want that can happen at your club that can happen at your college, it ever may be that that's that's part of life and you can be that way but you have to change that way when you're when you're with us.

Alf Gracombe  

Yeah, great. Yeah, that's that's excellent. what I've observed because I know a number of kids, my own son included, who are, you who play in your program. You know, I have just found that the

enjoyment of those sessions for the reasons that you just mentioned as those in the things that are non-negotiable. When you come into this space, these are the expectations around behavior, how you treat one another, how you play, know, what you do off the pitch shows up on the pitch. But I think what I've seen that translate to is, is, you know, respect, humility and enjoyment, you know, which is at the end of the day, if you're not enjoying playing this game, then think about

Owen Miller  

Right, right.

Alf Gracombe  

the environments in which you're playing it and find the spaces where you can really get joy from the experience.

Owen Miller  

Absolutely.

Yeah,

absolutely. I could not agree more with that. think that's the biggest thing is like when kids get to the high school age group, they're so focused on what can my next step be to get me to the next step after that, right? And so rather than like, can I enjoy playing soccer? And I think that we don't even realize that as we get older, we often fall out of love with the game because we're doing every

Decision we make is more based on status or is more based on what can get me to the next level rather than just like enjoying soccer, which is why we offer that weekly pickup soccer kind of thing and pick up might not be the right word, free soccer, flow, free flow, whatever it may be. But the point is there's no there's no referees. There's no instructions. There's nothing. You're just playing. And that's what we want. Right. We want you guys to we want our players to be playing. We want them to be making new friends. I mean, the the amount of like people that have met each other through this.

has been incredible just in year one. yeah, that's the biggest thing. It's like people say like, what is your goal? What is your goal with the players? What do want them to develop? it's like, okay, great. I would love for their first touch to be better on the I would love for them to get better on the half turn. But at the end of the day, and I'm not, like I said, I'm not trying to sound like I'm like virtue signaling or any of that kind of stuff, but I want them to enjoy it. I want them to really enjoy their time when they're with Flow.

Alf Gracombe  

Yeah, well, you don't have to apologize for having those perspectives. I think it says something about the day and the age as well, virtue signaling, right? Like this idea of you're too earnest, you're too goody, the world is tougher than that, whatever. And it's like, no, actually, some of these, maybe they're even cliches, but they're true. If you're not enjoying the game.

Owen Miller  

Right, right.

Right. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Alf Gracombe  

You really have to ask yourself, I who are the players you enjoy watching the most? Right? Like for me, it's like Ronaldinho is like one of the players. mean, the guy just enjoyed playing, right? He's playing at the highest level, but you know, he just had a smile on his face half the time and, and a lot of professionals, you know, they don't, it's a tough job. Um, so yeah, never forget that just the simple joy of playing the game. Um, Owen and phenomenal conversation. We've I'm looking at the clock here. We're, past the 60 minute mark. So, um,

Owen Miller  

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Totally.

No. Right.

Yeah.

Alf Gracombe  

We could go for another 60 easily, but yeah, let's just bring it to a close. I really appreciate your time. Before you go, I'm gonna ask you a few more questions in what I call the lightning round. So these are gonna be pretty quick. I won't have a lot of follow-up. I can't guarantee that sometimes the answers are so good. I do wanna follow up on them, but let's go with some quick lightning round questions. Are you ready? All right.

Owen Miller  

Totally.

Please.

Yeah.

Alf Gracombe  

For you, a coach who's at the highest level of the professional game, who's someone that you admire the most and what is it about their approach that really resonates with you?

Owen Miller  

I am a Chelsea fan, however, the answer to this is without a doubt Jurgen Klopp. He is someone that I absolutely loved watching at Liverpool. I loved the success that he built, not necessarily based off of buying superstars, but based off of building culture. I loved watching the connection that he made with the fans while he was there. Another really good indicator of something that I look up to is I've never heard a player give a bad interview about him, like a former player of his. They all have amazing things to say.

And lastly, I love that he stepped away. I love that he was self-aware enough to know that, this is no longer for me, I'm gonna step away. So without a doubt, Jurgen Klopp.

Alf Gracombe  

Mm. ⁓

Yeah, no great call. I'm not a Liverpool fan myself, but he's definitely, you know, in that pantheon of coaches for the reasons that you just mentioned as well. ⁓ I always admire. He's a big hugger. That's what I noticed.

Owen Miller  

Yeah.

Yeah. Yes, yes, totally, totally, yeah.

Alf Gracombe  

And

so, he was just obviously like the interpersonal relationship meant a lot to him. He always, I think, kept like the coach player dynamic intact, but his support of his players in that very personal, sometimes even very physical way was clear. Great. All right. So onto the training pitch. What's an activity that you find yourself returning to again and again, something that just really works for you and your players?

Owen Miller  

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Totally.

Transition

work so whether that is we like to almost always do some form of

1v1 into 2v1 or 2v2 into 3v2. So attacking as quickly as you can and then defending as quickly as you can because A, it's a great way to get into the flow state because they do often find success with that. But B, it's so game realistic where so much of the game is played in transition. So any forms of that, regardless of the size of the field, regardless of the going to goal versus going to mini goals or whatever it may be, I think that it's so important to work in transition.

Alf Gracombe  

Awesome,

Good, so a moment from your playing days that still shapes how you coach today.

This could be a negative or a positive, you know.

Owen Miller  

Yeah, yeah,

yeah. Honestly, my relationship with my high school coach definitely, I guess it's not a moment per se, ⁓ yeah, okay. So ⁓ my relationship with my high school coach, like he was so, he housed kids in his house. Like he was so caring for the kids. He taught me that it's so much more than just tactics and any of that kind of stuff. And so he inspired me to be a coach and he inspired me to want to really build lifelong relationships with my players.

Alf Gracombe  

Well, that's fine. Let's go with that.

So you work with a lot of young players and you know these are players who are in competitive environments and you know when you're trying out for your high school team or you're maybe trying to make the MLS next team or whatever it might be at the end of the day there's a decision by a coach behind whether or not even you make the team or whether you're getting playing time so every coach sees players a little differently but

As you look across young players, what's an underrated quality in a young player that you think maybe gets a little unrecognized or other coaches might not be seeing as much?

Owen Miller  

Yeah, stamina,

stamina is one of the most underrated qualities. a player that can...

be getting stuck in in the 80th minute that can be joining the counter in the 80th minute that can be defending the counter in the last five minutes of the game, whatever it may be. I think that stamina is something that like when you watch these players in Europe, the top players in the Champions League, these guys are so fit. People have no idea how fit these guys are. And so I think that that's something that that's also something that's totally in your control, right? If you're sometimes you're having a bad touch or you know, your touch is popping up. It's one of those days. But if you're the fittest player out

Alf Gracombe  

Mm-hmm.

Owen Miller  

there that's going to stick with you regardless of the circumstances.

Alf Gracombe  

Yeah, so I do have a follow-up question with this one. So there is just the raw fitness, like how is the players, how's their motor, right? What do you look for in players in terms of how they manage their energy throughout the course of a match? Because you can come out red hot in minute one, but by the 45th minute, you might not be in such a great state. So how do you think about kind of energy management?

Owen Miller  

Right.

Totally.

It's a great question. think that often the players that are most anxious are the ones that are know, the saying, like running around like a chicken with its head cut off those first five minutes. So I think that knowing how to use your energy is really important. You know, if it's, you know, Whenever there's a...

really important part of the game, whatever it may be, like use your energy as much as you can, but definitely know when to join the attack if you're a six, definitely know, or if you're a fullback, like know when to join the attack. Don't be making the overlap run every single time. Know when it's on, right? Recognize when, if you're going to join the attack or if you're going to drop back defensively, if you're going to press as a striker, press when you're going to win the ball. Press when you have a good feeling that you're going to win the ball or you're going to really put them off.

If the center backs are so split and they're so good on the ball, like no, maybe that I should just be dropping in right now and conserving my energy.

Alf Gracombe  

Yeah, I love that because it's kind of that space between the physical side of the game and the mental side of the game, like knowing when to how to read situations, knowing how to, you know, yeah, apply yourself in a given moment versus maybe making a more calculated decision around, you know, where to position yourself or whether or not to make that run. cool. All right. So here's a question. This is

Owen Miller  

Totally. Totally, yeah.

Alf Gracombe  

obviously football related, but also linguistically related. So you've spent time in Spain. know you've got, you speak Spanish, you speak Portuguese as well. Is that right? So vocabulary of the game, is there a word or anything in Spanish or Portuguese that captures something about the game of soccer that English just doesn't have a word for?

Owen Miller  

Yep.

Yes, the.

The best one that I can come up with this is the word Pelada. P-E-L-A-D-A. It's a Portuguese word and it actually means like bear, B-A-R-E, or naked almost in a way. what it really means, essentially what it translates to or what they talk about in Brazil when they're talking about a pelada, it means a pickup game. And the point being that it's as authentic as possible, it's as bare as possible. And it's something that is not common enough here in the United States, pickup soccer. It's more common across other sports like basketball. There's no

real word for it here. There's actually a movie called Pelada where this couple that graduated, were both Division I players. They traveled the world and kind of documented it and were playing pickup soccer with all these different countries. I'd recommend it. It's really, really interesting documentary. But yeah. Yeah.

Alf Gracombe  

Hmm.

Awesome. I love that.

Yeah, it sounds like it's like kind of getting down to like the essence, the bare essence of the game and the experience of playing. Excellent. Owen, this was such a great conversation. I really appreciate you being on. I will definitely have a lot to put in the show notes, but first and foremost, check out what Owen is doing with Flow Soccer. Yeah, and Owen, just quickly, the URL for Flow Soccer, how do folks get in touch with you if they want to learn more?

Owen Miller  

Exactly, exactly, that's it. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, so our Instagram account is @flowsoccer.fs My personal coaching account is @coachowenmiller. Simple as that. Our website is flow-soccer.com. So feel free to follow me on Instagram. Follow us on Instagram. Shoot us a message. I'll always respond. And obviously you can check out our website and any of that kind of stuff online.

Alf Gracombe  

Excellent. Owen, thank you so much. yeah, excellent conversation. So thank you. There was a lot that we touched on, but just, a really rich conversation. And thanks again for your time.

Owen Miller  

Thank you so much, Alf. Yeah, this was great. Yes.

Yeah.

Thank you, Alf.

Alf Gracombe  

That was Owen Miller, co-founder of Flow Soccer and assistant coach at Emerson College in Boston. A few things that stand out to me from this conversation. First, the flow state is a practical methodology. Owen didn't just borrow the concept from psychology as a nice name for his business. He built his entire approach to session design around it. Two or three drills per session, stopping play as little as possible, making teams deliberately balanced so the game stays alive.

When he got his UEFA C license in Scotland, an evaluator told him he was stopping training too often. That coach stopped play just twice in an entire session. And while Owen might not always hit that number, it gives him a standard to aim for. The goal in his sessions is to create conditions that teach, not to always be the one doing the teaching. Second, what Spain showed Owen about coaching efficiency. The coaches at Villarreal weren't quiet or hands off. They were...

detailed and demanding, but they loaded their instruction up front and then let the session run. So by the time players were U19s, they didn't need to be told when to play the third man ball. It was already wired in from years of rondos and tight space possession work. Owen came back from Spain with a different sense of what a well-run session actually looks like. And third, his point about mentorship. Owen is 26.

He coaches because he believes that reaching young men before they find their models elsewhere is one of the most important things he can do right now. The no dickheads rule he borrows from the book, Legacy, the sliding scale pricing, the Free Flow Fridays, all of it reflects the same conviction that soccer should be accessible to everyone and that a good coach's job goes well beyond what happens on the pitch. If you want to follow what Owen and his co-founder David Gydus are building at Flow Soccer,

visit flow-soccer.com or find them on Instagram at flowsoccer.fs. We'll link to everything in the show notes as well. If this episode resonated with you, share it with another coach in your network. And as always, thanks for tuning into the CoachCraft Podcast. Until next time.