Better & NEO Home Loans

Not just closing loans, but walking families through one of life’s biggest milestones.

In this episode of Culture Uncovered, Jena Dunay sits down with Maddi Hargrove, Director of People and Culture at Better and NEO Home Loans, to go behind the scenes of two organizations working to modernize the mortgage experience through technology, people-first culture, and a bigger mission around homeownership.

Maddi shares how Better’s tech platform is transforming the loan process, why NEO Home Loans partnered with Better, and how both organizations are building around a shared just cause: to be better for their clients, partners, and people.

They also dive into what it takes to build culture across multiple business models, from distributed retail to direct-to-consumer to tech, and why responsible autonomy, employee feedback, and mission alignment matter in a fast-moving, high-pressure industry like mortgage.

What you’ll learn:

• How Better and NEO Home Loans are modernizing the mortgage experience
• Why technology like Tinman is changing the loan process from start to finish
• What “responsible autonomy” looks like in practice
• How mission, ethos, and employee feedback shape culture across both organizations

Better + NEO Home Loans Highlights:

• Better Founded: 2016
• NEO Founded: 2021
• Headquarters: New York City
• Team Size: 1,500 across Better, including 360 at NEO
• Industry: Mortgage / Fintech / Proptech
• Culture: Mission-driven, resilient, feedback-oriented, autonomy-led

Unique Perks:

• Flex time
• Strong remote work options
• Hybrid and in-office opportunities depending on team
• High trust and responsible autonomy
• Employees help shape culture through ethos and feedback loops

To learn more about Better + NEO Home Loans:

Better's (including NEO) Careers Page (They’re hiring!)

Better's LinkedIn Page

NEO's LinkedIn Page

Maddi's LinkedIn Profile

Transcript

Jena Dunay: Hello friends and welcome back to another episode of Culture Uncovered where we go each week behind the scenes of another cool company to work for. And today I have the honor and privilege to get to talk to Maddi Hargrove who's the Director of People and Culture at Better and NEO Homes. So Maddi, thank you so much for joining us. I love talking to people in this industry because my husband is in this industry and it's such a part of the world that people like don't think about but they interact with every day.

Maddi Hargrove: Hello and thank you for having me. This is wonderful and I love it too. It's something I'm super passionate about. I've been in mortgage for over 16 years and so I totally get it.

Jena Dunay: So tell me, obviously you kind of led us a little bit there, that mortgages is the line of business that you're in, but can you explain to us, so you obviously are the Director of People and Culture of both of those organizations, so explain to us what Better and NEO Home Loans is.

Maddi Hargrove: Of course. So Better is actually they consider themselves also a tech company. So Better does direct to consumer. So that would be like wholesale. But what they are really known for is the tech that they have been building for the last 10 plus years to really revolutionize the mortgage industry. So one thing that I believe and I'm sure a lot of people would agree with me is that tech has really kind of been failing and it's been a backseat. And we've been using systems that have kind of been a little prehistoric really. And they just, as we're growing and moving to AI, the systems aren't able and capable to move with us. 

So the owner of the company decided I need to change this process. So for the last years, he's been building and has an amazing team that has been building out a new tech system called Tinman, which is where we're using and what we're using on the NEO side now. And really why NEO Home Loans came over to Better is because of that as well. Obviously, our cultures really aligned and really are just cause as well hooked us to them. But once we saw that amazing tech that could go and was one of the big things that we have always really been missing is why we decided to kind of attach ourselves to Better. And so the NEO, are technically what you call distributed retail. So we do the retail side of mortgages, purchases, refis, so all of that kind of stuff. So where Better can just do maybe the simpler loans direct to consumer. There's not a ton, a lot of lead generated business. We do maybe as you would consider us the Uber black, right? If someone needs a little bit more hand holding better can kind of pass it off. And then that's where our amazing branch leaders and market advisors step in and can help the borrowers.

Jena Dunay: Yeah, I get that. Love it. Yeah, it's more like in line with what my husband does. So he's a loan officer and he does more of the complicated folks is what I like to say. Not your typical W-2s that are pretty straightforward. It's like the folks that got all these other things going on. Yep. 100%. 

Maddi Hargrove: Yep. lot of assets, lot of hard money. 

Jena Dunay: Okay. So you mentioned, I want to touch on this a little bit, you mentioned cause. So tell me a little bit about like the cause and the mission of your organization collectively is Better or just like even NEO in general and why you guys attached yourself to Better. I think that's a great story. You and I briefly talked about that in our intro call.

Maddi Hargrove: Yeah, for sure. So when NEO came around, really all of us that have been at NEO for the last five years, kind of all were stuck at our other companies. And we felt like there was a big miss of what was going on in the mortgage industry and how we could really be better overall. So we sat down and we decided to work on what our just cause was. And that was just to build something better that doesn't currently exist, you know, be better for our clients, better for our partners, and even better for our people and our employees. And what could we do within our company to create something strong and really Better is the exact same. So that's where it's worked out as such a great partnership that the just cause there was trying to get everybody into homeownership, right? 

We have so many people out there renting and Vishal, the CEO of the company really just stopped what he was doing. He was like, I believe that everyone should have a chance to own a home, build that generational wealth. And so that's what he was about. And then with us here at NEO, we felt the same and that's what we've been trying to really achieve as well. And then not just getting people into homes, but it's not just get signing somebody up for debt either. We want to be there and hold their hand through the hard conversations, you know, be there five years from now, 10 years from now, should they need to refi or maybe their kids need to buy a home and to really give them that financial guidance and not just drop them off and then run the other way. So, but NEO believed in that and, you know, being together or we've been around for five years, but we have recently just come up with Better in the last year. We just had our one year anniversary with them and it really has been a wonderful journey for us to find them and find someone who really just aligns with our just cause.

Jena Dunay: I love that. Well, tell us a little bit about how big the company is, how old the organization is. Let's just do some of those typical questions that people are usually thinking about when they're thinking about going to a new organization.

Maddi Hargrove: For sure. So Better really came into the spotlight. And I'm sure a lot of people, your husband probably knows about it as well, but they had crazy growth, super-fast. They were a very, they were a company just straight out the gate. And then we looked at 2019, 2020 and the way the industry went and they just exploded. Right. And we saw a lot of companies do that. And then unfortunately, after that explosion happened, you know, the interest rates went up and everything. 

And so they've really then Better over the last couple of years have really, you know, tightened down and really tried to think about how they wanted to build a company. So really at this time, Better is about 1,500, including NEO. NEO stands about 360, moving upwards towards 400 of that. We are in India, so we have a big amount of people in India, about almost 400 there. And then our DTC, which does include a lot of our employees in India, but they're about 700 as well. And then on top of it. Yeah, we have the tech side of things, which is its own almost little company within Better and the tech sits about 100 employees as well.

Jena Dunay: Wow, it's a large ecosystem of folks. And like a lot of things that you guys are working, that's really cool. So just give us an overview of like how old is each of the companies or at least two of the companies? How old are they? Like how long have they been around for?

Maddi Hargrove: So Better has been around for about 10 years, just based off of their growth and starting with the tech and building it out. NEO's been around for five years now. So we just started congratulating all of our employees for sticking it out for five years. Luckily for us, we did start end of 2020, beginning of 2021, where we did start to see a lot of those companies start and the mortgage companies have to start doing a lot of compression, but really proud of the employees that stuck it out with us. We have had very, very little attrition with NEO. A lot of that goes to what we believe in, our just cause. We follow our ethos. And it really has kept our employees strong and building through. 

Then coming over to Better and where Tinman's so great and where I say it's going to revolutionize the mortgage industry is that it's actually completely changed the way you process a loan from start to finish. So where your husband is working through systems and how his process goes, Tinman completely changes that, but it makes it more efficient. It takes out a lot of the heavy lifting. So our borrowers have a lot of one-on-one time with the people that work for us. You're not scanning docs and printing this and re-uploading this. It's very streamlined and intuitive. it's coming into the company as well has really had to make our NEO employees retrain a completely new loan process again that fits a very like I said, intuitive, streamlined system.

Jena Dunay: I love that. Where are you guys located?

Maddi Hargrove: So our headquarters for Better is in New York City. We're on the One World Trade building. So that's been fun. We are in India. We have where our big presence is. And really we're very remote. So where NEO is almost, I would say 90 % remote. A lot of that is we have branch leaders in branches throughout the United States, but our headquarters for New York, that's pretty hybrid.

We have a lot of in-office, a lot of people enjoy going into office there. And then we also have Dallas, we're building out our DTC offices. So we have a big Dallas location that's growing quite a bit. And then we also have a Detroit office that we are growing as well for DTC.

Jena Dunay: So fun. I lived right near One World Trade. So I am very familiar with that building. Yeah, I lived right across from it. I used to walk past it on my way to work back in the day when I lived in New York. So I'm very familiar with that area. And also fun that you guys are growing the Dallas market. So you can talk a little bit about maybe a little bit further in our conversation about the culture of that, how it's maybe a little bit unique to maybe the culture of the remote environment and what that looks like. But let's take a step back. And I want to hear a little bit more about your journey. This is specifically for other people leaders that are listening. Because how did you find out about the organization? What made you want to join?

Maddi Hargrove: So I think it's pretty funny. I actually found my first spot into mortgage through a Craigslist ad. I was just doing payroll.

Jena Dunay: Stop. That is a first on this podcast.

Maddi Hargrove: Yeah, I know. I was like, how'd you get into mortgage? Who'd you know? I'm like, well, I saw a Craigslist ad and I just thought, yeah, that sounds like a cool place. So, I was doing payroll and I liked it. I liked doing all the billing and everything for a construction company. And I wanted something different and that's where I found Cobalt Mortgage.

They were small at that time. I think we were under 300 employees. But I came in and I just started working in the HR department there and running payroll. Pretty quickly moved into actually running the full commissions department and the payroll department. And we started seeing some crazy growth around 2012 to 2013. And we actually took Cobalt  up to 1,400 employees, very fast. It was a wonderful experience, really kind of shot me into why I love the industry so much. The leaders were amazing. That's really where I think I gained such a love for the culture and what you could do back for your employees. The leaders there were just wonderful to work for. But we ended up selling to Caliber. So we then merged over there. Since when I was at Cobalt, I actually became really fluent in mortgage law, which is kind of weird, but it became something that like I really...

Jena Dunay: Very, very niche.

Maddi Hargrove: I don't really know why, but like CFPB rules and how to pay people was just something that really stuck with me. And I ended up building alongside the owner a new comp system. That was actually one of the reasons Caliber purchased us. So then I got to pump over to Caliber and help build the system there too. And so we did handle that one as like little mini acquisition, right?

And really ever since then, I've just somehow been involved in many acquisitions. So even taking NEO into our first home, I brought in people from all the different companies and also something that I don't, I wouldn't say it's a love of mine, but it's something that I found that I'm pretty good at. So then have gotten to do that almost really four times now. And that's kind of been my journey where I've started in comp. Comp's really my sweet spot, but then as we came into NEO, they were like, we need somebody that can do comps, but also we need, we have this big hole for HR and we want you to step into that. And so that's what I did. But I also have always worked as kind of where I've worked for two companies. 

So even right now where I am Better’s, director of people and culture, I am NEO’s as well. I also helped with an HR and compensation at the other companies that I've always kind of hung my hat on. So I've never been a hundred percent NEO, but I'm of the leadership group and have been with them since the creation. So that's been really fun. And then this is, we like to say our home spot for sure. Like I don't foresee myself going anywhere else just for the fact of really the culture that we've been able to create here. We're very responsible. Responsible autonomy is one thing that we really thrive on for our branch leaders. And then being with Better as well, just the trust and the ability to be able to grow a company and to grow it correctly is just very reassuring to me and to have the right people in the right seats is only going to make you stronger.

Jena Dunay: Yeah. What advice would you have for other people leaders that might be listening that are growing in their career? Like you've been very successful and like show it sounds like very successful. I mean, it came from a Craigslist. That's how you got into the industry. So like, love those stories, but like, how do you feel like you've been able to rise through the ranks and like, how have you made yourself valuable so that people do think to tap on you to bring you into the next organization or to bring you into this XYZ project?

Maddi Hargrove: I think really showcasing, you know, where your strengths are, but it's not wrong to show weakness or not even necessarily a weakness, but I have no problem saying you should utilize me a hundred percent here. I am very good at this. I have confidence in myself and I can execute this. If they they've asked, Hey, are you, is this something you can do for us here? And I said, I can help, but I'm not your, I should not be an A on this one. And just making sure that people can really see where your biggest strengths are for that company and they will lean on you. I, you know, being in payroll for all these years in compensation, like I should a hundred percent be leaned on for any payroll conversions or if we're converting employees for salary hourly or doing audits, like that is something that I am very, very strong at and I will be the first to raise my hand and say, I have complete confidence in myself to help you like achieve this goal. But I also have no problem saying that's not my genius zone. Let's tap this person in.

And just being really transparent with people about where you can help, I think has really kind of helped me. I don't shy away from it, but I also don't shy away from learning something new. know, being at NEO, I've really grown the most in this role, I will say. I was always very kind of stuck in that comp language, again, love. But here, I really have been able to see what I've been capable of doing with NEO, especially with the culture piece, or just being able to see. I feel like I'm somebody that is called a lot, you know, if someone needs to talk or, you know, maybe they're struggling here and I can give my perspective on it to be that trusted space and know that people trust me to have those conversations has been something that's been really great. And to then get a feel for, hey, what can we change here as a company that could make these people feel more seen or, you know, where are we seeing holes that we need to start filling, you know, to make, you know, this company that much stronger, I think is something that's been really great for me to really build into and just again calling out, this is something new for me. Just kind of give me a moment to get my feet wet and like actually talk to the other professionals that are in my same line of work and just getting feedback to, reaching out to others. What worked for you? What didn't work for you? Being open to getting other people's feedback. You know, I don't know everything. I didn't. I honestly can tell you that my first, you know, gut on everything is not going to be right. So I'm always open to getting feedback and asking for advice or getting other people's if we're going into a new system. I want to make sure that I'm doing my due diligence because I'm signing my name off on it.

Jena Dunay: Right. Yeah, well, it's interesting what you said there. I used to always tell clients, we tell candidates that are in our outplacement program, like, it's okay to be confident. I find that people are more comfortable sharing where they're not good at things and less comfortable sharing where they are good at things. And I usually tell people, you should be confident in things that you're really good at because you know you're bad at a lot of things. So, even having that ability to like mention like, I'm really good in this area, you want me in this area. 

I just love how you presented that because you can honestly say on the other end, here's what I'm not really good at. And just having almost that very diplomatic, unemotional response to strengths and gaps, I feel like is such a competitive advantage when rising through the ranks in an organization and being tapped for opportunity. So I love that you said that. And I just wanted to double tap on it for the listener because whether you're a people leader or you're just a general job seeker or you're somebody in an organization right now, having that mindset around your career, your development and what you're good and what you're not good at is so important and being able to recognize that is key. 

I want to jump back into Better and NEO Home Loans because I do think that I want you to talk a little bit about culture. So you mentioned that before that it's been fun to wear that hat to think about how do we make things better for the team? So how would you describe the culture of the org?

Maddi Hargrove: So starting with NEO, I would say our culture there is very strong. I mentioned a little bit earlier, we really drive off of our ethos. And that was something that really formed who we were as a company, what we wanted to be. But our ethos were chosen by our employees. And we do things every month to encourage you to promote employees within our company that are striving to do those ethos.

One of the biggest things, like we can obviously see in the timeline of NEO that we've had to do some moves and now being at kind of our home plate, we've really had employees stick with us and have to do the hard right and have to start over again and move a company and go to an acquisition. And that's just a lot. You're asking so much of your employees to really just trust us and stick by our sides and we will make this. 

Jena Dunay: I think to acknowledge that is key. Like the fact that y'all are acknowledging that or not like, it's great. We're moving from thing to thing to thing. Like that is a pressure point for your team. So keep going. But I think that's important to recognize that most organizations would just like move past it.

Maddi Hargrove: For sure. And getting our the feedback to like these decisions to even when we got in that tractor beam for Better and seeing what they could give us when it came to the Tinman system, we still went back to all of our group and said, hey, is this a move you guys want to make to and getting their feedback? Because this wasn't a decision that the upper leadership was going to make on our own. That's not your you're impacting lives. And just being that open and honest with you know, the people that are helping build your company is the only way to go. And you're going to build that trust and that respect that we have for them and that they have been in turn have for us. 

I think the other thing that's been really important for NEO is that we don't believe in levels like we like where I am a leader of two people. Like we also don't use the terms manager, right? We don't like I'm not managing anybody. I want to lead people. But ultimately, I just want my people to lead through their workflow as well. So really giving people that encouragement back to be their own leader in what they're able to accomplish here. But also, we're not perfect. And I think the last five years have very much shown that. 

And this is where it even translates over to the Better side. They're definitely not perfect. And they've gone through a lot of growth up and down. And now we're both at these really solid foundations where we want our employees to find their genius zones and to understand the just cause of what we're trying to build, not just for like our borrowers, but for our company, for our employees. And then being able to build outwards and like provide this for so many others out in our communities and even to bring in more employees into this company and feel that they have a secure and trusted place to work is, mean, that's all I would ever want is that to feel really secure in the place and seen and appreciated. 

So, the fact that we have employees on both sides raising their hand saying, hey, this doesn't really work. Should we think about doing things this way? And then that they're heard in those situations, I think is what's really built like a very strong foundation for the culture on both sides. And then acting on it, right? Don't just take feedback. Let's take the feedback and then show that we're going to actually make a move is something not really working right in Tinman and our leads of the tech are in meetings saying, hey, yeah, well, let's change it this way. Let's do things another way. Let's think about it here has been really impactful for what people feel like they can bring to the industry as well.

Jena Dunay: Yeah, so it sounds like what I'm hearing you say, I was taking some notes as you were talking, but like autonomy is a word that you would use to describe like that ownership piece is a piece of it. And then I would say feedback loop was another phrase that was kind of coming to mind when you were talking about it. And then just the greater mission, you'd mentioned ethos a couple of times, just cause like these phrases that are unique to your organization, right? And the greater mission of the organization to help people get into homes. And then obviously the ripple effect that that has on the people that work for your organization, but also your communities as well. those are the couple of things that I was hearing about in terms of culture. 

Tell me, because this is often easier to like tangibly describe, we often hear culture described in like big words and big phrases and big ideas. Let's talk about it from a practical standpoint. What are some of the benefits or the perks that come out of maybe some of that feedback that you've gotten or those general ideas of what you believe culture and the purpose of your organization is. Like tell me about some perks and benefits. People love those stories too.

Maddi Hargrove: Just like what we give back to our employees and like, like on like a benefit standpoint, of those things. Yeah, we give, I think I've heard it a lot on your podcast before. We do have a lot of people on flex time. I think that's a really great thing to give employees. It just gives them like, we're not counting hours or minutes that you've been off. You're not having to work so long in order to take a day off. We know a lot of people sometimes come into jobs and they've already had plans to take a vacation. Having a flexibility and that just really is trusting your employees, right? Like we're giving you this allotment, like don't abuse it. And they really don't, they're responsible and respectful to it and they get to take the time they need. And maybe one year they go to Italy and they need three weeks in a row and get to do that. And then the next year they don't do that. Cause that's kind of a, I mean, I wish I could go to Italy every year, but so we do have that perk. 

I think one of our big perks especially is remote work, right? I think we entered COVID, a lot of people were forced into their homes. We've seen a lot of like people being forced back into offices. And that was just something that we never really enforced, especially on the NEO side because we found people work really well remote. We can do a lot of anything from our offices. I probably work more if I was to go into an office, I'd probably not work as much. My computer is so available for me.

Jena Dunay: I'd socialize.

Maddi Hargrove: It is, it's like my safe space. I just never want to leave it. But just that remote, the option to be remote. And then when you are sourcing for work and for positions to be filled, it is so much easier to find people to be remote. 

Jena Dunay: It is. As if somebody who has a recruiting arm to the business, it is so much easier to support some organizations that are open to remote than organizations that are not, like just hands down. You get really great talent that way.

Maddi Hargrove: 100%. Yeah, you do. But then also still having the availability to being in office or the availability like, you know, our DTC office is in office. And that is because of some things culturally too. I am new to DTC. I've always been more distributed retail, but our Dallas office is so fun. You go in there because they're kind of on a lead based through system and the leads coming from Better. Anytime someone locks a loan, they're ringing a gong and they're cheering for each other. And it's just a vibe that they bring into those offices where they're just so, they're just promoting each other. And it's just a really great feel. So they love going into the office. That's where those people want to be. And I totally get it. Cause if I lived in Dallas, I would probably go in that office every day just to like, be like, yeah, let's go. Just rah rah everybody, root them on. So it's like, I just thought it was great. I think that's really wonderful. 

And then like I said, our detour office is the same way. They're really building that out. And that's really great. But some other perks, you know, we have a huge footprint too. I think it's been wonderful to be able to build out our teams in India as well. I had the ability to travel to India this year and meet a lot of our teammates and it was just wonderful. The people are just wonderful. The culture is obviously so, so different, but we've just had such success over there, hard, hard workers, and they just really can fold into any of the positions that we're looking for. So that's been really nice to have that as well.

Jena Dunay: I love it. Now tell me, no company's perfect, right? We talked about a lot of the good things about your organization. What are some areas of opportunity or where has your organization failed over the past couple of years and like, what do you guys learn from it?

Maddi Hargrove: You know, I think it's easy to see where, especially in mortgage, there's been such ups and downs through this industry. And I sometimes wonder...

Jena Dunay: Yeah. Can I say it's a hard industry? It's tough. mean, you're so impacted by the market by like somebody saying a phrase, you're impacted, right? Somebody says one sentence and then the whole market does the thing.

Maddi Hargrove: It is. It's crazy. And it's had so many ups and downs. So sometimes you do sit there and wonder, like, why am I stuck in mortgage? But then I have that whole like, okay, this is what you know how to do really well, so you should stick it out. I can't imagine going and working someplace. I think I might get a little bored, to be honest. I'm used to that ups and downs. But with that is always going to come problems.

Jena Dunay: Yeah. Probably.

Maddi Hargrove: You're trying to forecast, engage, but like to your point, someone says something and rates could go one way or they could go down. And now you're scrambling to hire a bunch of people. So it's so hard to always find those sweet spots when you just can't even, you hear like all of these really great financial people say, Q2 is going to be the quarter that everything goes down. So you start to prep and then like everything stayed the same and you're like, it. 

Jena Dunay: Yeah, right.

Maddi Hargrove: So it's really hard to forecast in this industry, for sure. So I think that is one of our biggest falls because like kind of what I've said before, you're always kind of doing more with less because you're just waiting for what's going to happen. So where you want to start to grow and build up your teams and get them the proper support, who knows if in a month or two, you could be an interest rate spike against and then now your purchases or your refis are going down. that would be, I mean, I think anytime you're entering mortgage, you just have to like, I truly believe it. Like you have, like the salespeople especially, like you have to be strong. You have to be so strong and dedicated to stay in a loan officer, mortgage advisor position. Cause it is, it is certainly rough.

Jena Dunay: You have to be into it for the long haul. That's what we've talked about internally in our family. So, yeah.

Maddi Hargrove: Yes, that's a great way. But then also, so there's definitely that. And then just, you know, there's been so many changes. I mean, to just say within mortgage over the, I have not, the company I entered back in, you know, 2010 is not the same companies that we're working for these days. So trying to really like re-form the way we work, has been really difficult and where do we see a need, obviously like compliance and legal, those departments we've had to see really beef up. And then where other departments you don't get as much. So that's been a little hard, I could just say over all these years to have to kind of go through. The other thing here, like I've said it, we're like three different companies. 

I am not like the culture queen. I will say that for sure. But when you're trying to merge three companies ultimately together that all function very differently and culture is very, very hard. And we know we have that foundation, but we're definitely not perfect and nowhere even close to being perfect or near the goal I want to see us, you know, in the next year. And I'm one of the people that like want to run through walls and everyone's like, slow down. And I have a hard time. I have a hard time pausing sometimes, but, you have you, it's really become challenging for me really this last year to kind of pull myself back and understand, okay, our tech company, tech companies run very differently than mortgage companies and even distributed retail runs very differently than our DTC. So really having three, you know, main forms of a company. 

Jena Dunay: Subcultures, if you will. Yeah.

Maddi Hargrove: Yeah, exactly. And then trying to find what works and, know, we have, you know, we have to compete with the other tech companies, right? So like benefits have to be a certain way here. And then you still have to accommodate because we are like, we have a bunch of branch leaders and we believe in responsible autonomy that branches get to function the way they do under NEO. And so you're trying to still appease them and their structures and letting them kind of build their businesses the way they want to. But then we're also our own business over here is Better that needs to stay structured and we're public and, you know, stick to it all. So it is a lot. 

Jena Dunay: Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot. You have a lot of a lot to do, Maddi.

Maddi Hargrove: Yeah, there is always plenty to do. And then you add on just getting to know the leaders too, right? I think every company is going to come in and say, we have the best leaders, but I truly do believe that I've just had such a wonderful experience getting to work alongside of the Better leaders and how they want to form their departments and how they want to interact with them and what we can do on an HR standpoint to support them has been super important for me and my team on the Better side and leaning in and teaching them tips and tricks or what you could give back or giving them platforms to you how can you, you know, promote your employees or how do we want to acknowledge them for the hard work they've done here is just kind of, you're kind of looking at all of these department heads and handling each one of them a little bit differently, but still able to support them overall. 

So there's a lot of moving pieces definitely at this company, at both companies. So there's holes, there's places that we can always fix, but I think really what it always comes down to and why people have stuck it out with all of the people, a lot of the people that have been with Better, right? They went through the big growth and then even to have that shrinkage and still stick with the company because they knew the company had the heart that they wanted. 

And that's the same to say for NEO is that people have been through the creation of this company and it's made it it's steps at other different companies and then now coming in to Better and still sticking it out and believing that together, you know, we can be a strong company is really important to highlight. It's our employees are resilient. and they're important and we would truly be nothing without them and their hard work and their dedication to it. And it's not just dedicating the company. It's like they want to do so much for the clients and for people in the United States. It’s just, it's really touching to see people stick it out. And it makes you stick it out too, right? Like, you're like, if they can do it, I can do it. And everyone kind of looks and latches onto each other.

Jena Dunay: Yeah, I love that. Well, can you share with us for people that are listening, can you share a little bit about like, are you guys hiring? I'm assuming the answer is yes. But in what areas are you hiring? And what is the best way to make sure that people get their resume seen?

Maddi Hargrove: Yes, we are always hiring a lot, a lot, a lot. So within Better, if anyone here is in the Dallas area, we are hiring our loan consultants like crazy there, and we are really building out that area. So anyone in Dallas or even Detroit, those offices are growing a lot. Within NEO, same thing. We are always expanding. We have branches all over the United States, but we're always looking to go into different areas. We are bringing on branch leaders, mortgage advisors. Mortgage advisors are like our loan officers, but we call them mortgage advisors. And then branch leaders, we have people that just come in and run branches. You don't even have to be a big branch to come in and join NEO. Really what we're always trying to find is people to fit our culture and believe in what we believe in. And it's not for everybody, you know? We don't look at, you know, how much volume we closed or how many units. We call it family served and those are things that matter to us. And we want those people to come into NEO to want the same thing. So it's to provide financial literacy out there and be something bigger than just closing loans. We've all been in the groundhog's day of what mortgage can be. It's just people want more. And that's what's been really great for NEO. So NEO is always hiring. We're always hiring in our ops roles. We're always bringing in new branches. We're always open. 

You can always email, there's NEO Home Loans, you can go to the website and there's a link to apply if you're interested in being a mortgage advisor or a branch leader for us. And then also within Better, we actually just navigated over to a system called Ashby, which we are going to start using for our recruiting services. 

Jena Dunay: We love Ashby. Ashby has been on the podcast. So yes, we love that.

Maddi Hargrove: Wonderful! I love it. Yeah, so we just are converting over to them, but obviously that's where we'll, our TA team will be putting out all of our jobs on there. And like I said, anything on the Better side, DTC ops, even within NEO. NEO utilizes the team as well to fulfill some of our operation positions. So all of those get posted out. You can always go to better.com and see a list of all of our jobs as well, but both NEO Home Loans and better.com. Go to those.

Jena Dunay: Maddi, thank you so much for spending time with us today and teaching us a little bit about, the mortgage industry, for those that aren't aware how it actually works behind the scenes, but even just your own journey of getting into the mortgage industry and just your journey of rising through the ranks and being a part of all of these different M&A events, if you will, and just finding your home, as you had mentioned, at Better. It's been really fun to learn about the organization, the culture, and where you guys are growing. So if you're interested in learning more about Better or NEO, we’re going to have all the links in the show notes to their careers page and to their LinkedIn page so you can do some research yourself. And Maddi, thank you again for joining us and we will see you all listeners next week on another episode of Culture Uncovered.

Maddi Hargrove: Thank you.