Perry Quarter Horses

In this episode of the Philosophical Cowgirl, you'll meet the couple behind Perry Quarter Horses in Leoti, KS: Jason Perry and CJ Garland. We'll discuss their unique paths in the horse industry. Jason, a rancher and self-made horse trainer, and CJ, with a background in business and marketing, have combined their skills to create a thriving horse program emphasizing ranch versatility and reined cowhorse. They share insights into their diverse experiences and the philosophy behind their business, horse training, challenges in the horse industry, their efforts to provide diverse learning opportunities through clinics and events like the Extreme Cowgirl Challenge, and more. They embody the virtues of staying true to oneself and never stopping the learning process, aiming to leave a legacy of perseverance and adaptability.

This is a good one! 

00:00 Introduction to Perry Quarter Horses

00:44 Backgrounds and Beginnings

04:08 Breeding Program Insights

08:20 Training Philosophy and Techniques

14:45 Ray Hunt and Mentorship

39:05 Business Challenges and Strategies

45:40 Embracing Social Media and Outreach

47:54 Navigating Social Media and Public Perception

49:20 Expanding Reach Beyond Local Markets

49:55 Overcoming Distance in the Horse Industry

51:12 Balancing Tradition and Modern Communication

53:04 The Importance of Continuous Learning

54:43 Dealing with Negativity and Burnout

01:00:31 Challenges and Trends in the Horse Industry

01:12:26 Building a Legacy and Encouraging Participation

01:15:01 The Extreme Cowgirl Challenge

01:22:53 Advice for Aspiring Horse Trainers

If you like the show, please be sure to share it or subscribe/follow/rate and review! All these things help get the show out there and keeps it going!

For questions, comments, or ideas: ThePhilosophicalCowgirl@gmail.com

Transcript

[00:00:00] 

Introduction to Perry Quarter Horses

In this episode, I interview Perry Quarter Horses. Jason Perry and CJ Garland are good friends of mine. We've shown together, We have a lot of mutual friends, we both have four year old kids that were born really close together. They come from totally different backgrounds, but the way that they've combined in business has really made their program extra strong, 

And between that and their training, there's a lot here that we can learn from.

 I think despite the fact that this is a longer episode than typical, it is well worth the listen.

You will not regret it. So stick with me and we'll get into some fascinating and rich stuff.

Backgrounds and Beginnings

So really generally, how would y'all describe what you do and what you're about, essentially what your niche is? 

[00:00:53] PerryRecordingMP3: I think,

because we are

we are individuals, that [00:01:00] does give us

kind of a lot of unique opportunities. Jason and I come from completely separate backgrounds, completely separate lifestyles before we met. Um, he, had a little bit of a lack of opportunities in, in the horse industry.

Um, he grew up on a ranch and he, you know, his dad started breeding horses here on the ranch when he was a kid, um, they're 40 year AQHA breeders, um, but it was a hobby for his dad and his dad was kind of of the philosophy that if it didn't buck you off, it was broke. Um, uh, you know, I mean, it's pretty, it was, it was pretty old school and it was a hobby.

Um, so Jason is. truly one of those self made trainers, um, Um, he very luckily had, um, a gift and just, a feel for horses. Um, [00:02:00] and I grew up in the Midwest and was very lucky. I mean, I had, you know, the second I knew what a horse was, they became part of my DNA and I loved them and had a passion. I didn't grow up in a horse family or on a ranch.

Um, so I'm a cowgirl by choice. Um, so I grew up in, um, more of, um, and. In just a completely separate lifestyle, my parents, um, my dad's an engineer and my mom, um, has a more of a finance background. So, uh, we both have 40 years in horses. but in separate things, I'm Jason's a horse trainer and I'm everything, but, um, I had a career, you know, wore a suit to work and, uh, have, you know, sales and marketing background. So, we're unique. Um, I think our, our niche is, um, Offering, offering our customers what our customers need. [00:03:00] Um, Jason has a lot of different, he showed in a lot of different events. Um, when I met him 10 years ago, his passion was cow horse and versatility. Um, needed someone to push him hard toward that. He wasn't showing in it, but he was training horses for it. Um, so now, you know, as we are. Always growing our program and being who we want to be. We're growing and passionate about cowhorse and versatility. So we're always striving to be better there. Um, so that's our primary focus.

Um, but we're still, you know, helping people learn to rope and we're still teaching kids how to ride. 

It doesn't matter. Yeah.

I mean foundation. If you don't have a foundation, you don't have anything anyway, you know. 

[00:03:56] _1_01-31-2025_093434: yeah, but y'all also take people to shows

and [00:04:00] have a little bit of a, um, versatility following, I think. And that's, That's a good deal. That's really cool. 

Breeding Program Insights

[00:04:08] _1_01-31-2025_093434: and um, tell me a little bit 

about your breeding program too. 

You're like, there's 

[00:04:12] PerryRecordingMP3: There's so much.

um, so 

the breeding program that Jason's dad started, we actually do have a 

a handful of those mares left. Um, 

they're, they're lovely. They're all getting a little old, which is a little bit sad, but, 

um, we still breed a handful of those mares. Um, Jason owned, um, had purchased, he purchased, um, Cat's Royal Boon, a stallion, um, by Jack Pot Cat, um, out of a Pepto Boon small daughter, um, as a weanling.

He is 16 this year. Um, so he owned him when I met him, and And his first full crop was being born that, that spring that? Jason and I first started dating. And, [00:05:00] um, so his, his babies are the first full crop is 10 this year and we, um, they're kind of all across the nation doing their, doing their thing competing.

He's now got about 80, 000 in progeny earnings in eight or nine different events. Um, he's truly a very versatile stallion. We stand him to the public along. with our other two stallions. And, um, so we breed him to these foundation mares that were born and raised here as well as, um, a group of mares that are bred in, in several different, different ways, more, you know, cow, horse and cutting bred mares.

Um, and then we have a son of Bet Hesa Cat. And then, uh, once in a blue boon out of a gray starlight daughter stallion that have all, we have purchased all three of them when they were young, Jason did all their training and all they're showing. So we're, We're a bit of a [00:06:00] unique, you know, breeder, just like we are with everything else.

Um, Jason is, he's a self made everything, uh, breeder and trainer. Um, he feels like he wants, wants to prove himself in all ways. Um, breeder, breeder, just like trainer. I can't give up the old stuff. Like I wanted to treat, I wanted to put the new generation with my old, 

[00:06:27] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Why is 

that? 

[00:06:28] PerryRecordingMP3: The grit, the heart.

Um, the toughness. You still have to be a horseman 

with that old generation.

They're good horses,

but putting a new with them, you can step up in the com 

and still be competitive with them. Um, I think the new horses is too fine. Bone 

I'm still a rancher. I need them to go do a day's work.

I mean, my futurity horses, they [00:07:00] have to go work on the ranch and still be a show horse too. And you know. I, I need that grit out there. 

[00:07:08] _1_01-31-2025_093434: And, uh, there's, they're probably a little 

bit bigger too, I'm guessing, than, than the two original studs 

that y'all, have, because I remember seeing y'all, or when I first 

met you, you were at a clinic that we were both at a long time ago, and 

I remember seeing 

Jason on these two little bitty studs. They're just, 

[00:07:30] PerryRecordingMP3: He makes everything look small though. Don't diss him, don't 

[00:07:34] _1_01-31-2025_093434: pretty normal. I was gonna say they're really pretty normal size for 

for but Jason's tall. And uh, so yeah, I bet bringing in some of 

beefs them up a little bit more, so they're more Jason sized. 

[00:07:48] PerryRecordingMP3: funny story on that, Sarah. So, these, uh, 2023s that we're starting, 

um, so he's start, you know, working them 

off of 

Romeo. You know, the [00:08:00] bet hesa. cat

and their, their butts are as tall as his butt. 

[00:08:05] _1_01-31-2025_093434: oh that's funny., 

So they're 20, 23s, you know, so they're they're coming two year olds now. And I'm like, so I'm videoing. I'm like, yeah, 

Training Philosophy and Techniques

[00:08:20] _1_01-31-2025_093434: So how, how did you decide to get into, um, the cow horse and the ranch versatility, that kind of stuff, Jason? 

[00:08:27] PerryRecordingMP3: We do it on the ranch. 

I mean, we do all that on the ranch. 

The roping, you know, I team roped forever. Shoulders couldn't hold up no more. Um, no practice partners anymore. Um, just because where we're located. Um, and I just wanted the horsemanship. I mean, cowhorse is.

tough. Don't, I mean, it's, it's, it's very, [00:09:00] it's very, Very tough. Um, but honestly, versatility to me 

is tougher.

Um, we, we get a horse ready for three events in the cow horse, 

but we have to, and I'm going to say six events for the, um, versatility, even though that one's confirmation, 

you still have to get that horse ready for confirmation. 

I mean, we're training those horses to do six events and, you know, and I'm looking at, Looking at cow horse 

going, okay, we do three events in cow horse.

We do the reining, we do the 

herd work, we do down the fence. And then you have to throw in, you got to have them horses that is so trained for that come back to ranch riding, trail, finesse. I mean, 

[00:09:57] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Mm hmm. 

[00:09:58] PerryRecordingMP3: I wanted [00:10:00] me, I'm very horseman. 

I mean, it's 

not every horse is going to make cow horse. 

So, if they can be okay in the herd, if they can be okay down the fence, but they really top themselves in ranch riding and trail, you still have a chance to win.

And if you have a pretty horse, 

we all know that confirmation will knock you out of the top if you don't have that horse. 

So, if you have that horse that can confirmation be in the top and do good and win trail and ranch riding and 

hold your own in the cowwork I thought it was the best to give every horse a chance.

[00:10:42] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Mm hmm. And it probably makes practically about the most well Oh yeah, they are so broke. 

public too, 

[00:10:50] PerryRecordingMP3: they're they're ready. I mean, 

and you know, like, 

we'll get into it later, but you know, like, 

most

of my trail class,

my trail [00:11:00] course, 

is out in the pasture. 

So they're used to, like, when we used to go to Guthrie, it wasn't no big deal for being outside.

He's talking about the AQHA versatility world. you know, It wasn't no big deal because 

them horses,

Our horses actually had fun on their, at the world show. Cause they're like, yay, we practiced this at home. You know, it just, I don't know. I just, and I think That's the niche. Oh, so when we was talking about the niche 

is a lot of my customers like it, that they're just not arena horse. 

 Like right now in the winter months, you know, we're moving, 

you know, our herd of cattle, 

bred cows from stocks to stocks. 

So, 

you know, them horses are having to go do a day's work, moving cattle, having dogs, wind, dirt, mama cows. You know, they're getting that experience that, I'm not [00:12:00] downing anybody that does, I'm just lucky that I have that opportunity. 

[00:12:08] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Yeah. So really the show pen is more just a showcase of how broke they are practically on a day to day basis Well, I think that's why I do So good in it. 

[00:12:18] PerryRecordingMP3: Because they're, 

they have, 

they're not afraid of the banner. 

I don't care if they hang a new banner the day before that I didn't get my horse in there. You know, they just, 

they've had so much stuff thrown at them. 

Jason took our Christmas tree out of our house and put it in the middle of the arena.

And he was a little bit, he was a little bit disappointed that nobody cared.

[00:12:43] _1_01-31-2025_093434: That's 

great. 

[00:12:44] PerryRecordingMP3: Yeah, he, I mean. I mean, I came home and I was like, did anybody freak out? And he was kind of like, no, 

you know, they're just, 

you know, I, I don't know. I just, 

I'm lucky. I'll just put it that way. I'm lucky for where 

[00:13:00] I'm lucky and not lucky at the same time. I mean, where we live, it's a positive in ways and we do, you know, we are very blessed, but we, you know, we are tethered to that. the ranch and it is far from every, you know, I say it's, it's in the middle of nowhere on the way to everywhere, Western Kansas is far from everywhere, but it does offer us opportunities that maybe other performance horse programs don't have the opportunity to offer their clientele, their customers or their horses that they raise too.

I mean, our, our horses, um, are raised in a pasture.

as much as we can let them. Um, and I you know, I hope that makes them, I think that makes them stronger and wiser, And, and as much as we can, 

our [00:14:00] personal horses, our show, our personal show horses and our customers horses are out there, like Jason was talking about.

Corn stalks blowing around and 50 mile an hour wind moving, 

moving cows that, you know, don't really want to move.

Having to keep them out of the neighbor's winter wheat, you know, from stock, stock field to stock field, because That's our life. You know, I mean, we can't, you can't duplicate that if you don't have that opportunity.

[00:14:32] _1_01-31-2025_093434: That's very 

true. 

So, a 

question that I have here, 

 For 

Jason, 

what 

and or 

who were the biggest influences on 

your 

horsemanship and your style. 

Influences and Mentorship

[00:14:45] PerryRecordingMP3: Um, Ray Hunt. 

I 

got introduced to him when I was 

a sophomore in high school.   

I can't tell you how many years that's been. 

I knew him until he passed away. [00:15:00] He's big influence on my horsemanship. 

Um, hindered me some too because, and nothing. But In our lifestyle now, we have, and I don't put a time limit on anything, but you know, we have three year olds that we're trying to show, 

[00:15:24] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Right. 

[00:15:26] PerryRecordingMP3: you know, um, but you also have to listen to that horse.

It's going to make it or not. You know, some horses can some can't, and that was my hardest deal. But Ray, Ray taught me so much about, 

um,

how to prepare myself for what I'm going through.

[00:15:53] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Hmm. In what ways? 

[00:15:58] PerryRecordingMP3: Mental, [00:16:00] 

very mental stuff. I mean, um, how

to get through tough horses, um, God, that's so tough because I've, the older I get, um,

I've figured out styles. I've developed my own style, but, um, him.

Ray, Ray was such an impact on everything,

but it did hinder you. 

I didn't push myself.

I thought that 

If you got a broke time, there's six, seven, 

you got it made.

You know, he didn't put a time limit on nothing, which it's hard for me because we don't have that time limit, but you also need to give that horse that time limit. 

But the problem with me was is that I've learned. 

I thought his time limit was [00:17:00] six, seven years. But honestly, it was about 

don't quit progressing the horse.

Don't, don't work on something for 

say three weeks. 

Work on something, move to something else. That was the hardest thing for me to understand and I finally figured out is you can keep teaching the horse but go back to something else. Teach the horse, go back to something else. You can keep moving along and that process has got really quick. 

I never understood, you know, 

and I understand it now because we did a video the other day 

that

we had three rides on one colt 

And I had my helper already moving other horses around 

and it became 

that though those horses can have a job within 

day number two, day number three, they can have a job quicker than what we think that.

they can do a job.

I mean if it's quicker He always used this deal is, [00:18:00] Jason, on day three, go get the mail. It's a job.

You know, I didn't understand that. like go check cattle on them on day three. Go put miles under. 

You know, it.

might not be the prettiest thing, 

but you're giving that horse a job besides loping circles, 

doing turns. You're They're developing their heart.

When Jason and I talk about Ray, 

I think what 

Jason may not even realize, but when I listen to him 

talk about his time with Ray 

Ray saw something in Jason 

you know, their relationship 

was crucial to Jason's development as a trainer. Ray is the only person in Jason's life that gave him opportunities as a horse trainer.

If, if Jason's dad hadn't sent him to that. clinic 

to [00:19:00] learn how to train horses, the trajectory of Jason's life would be completely different.

Who knows what he'd be doing, but That's probably the best thing that Jason's dad ever did for him. 

And Ray, you know, 

Jason's training 

philosophy is completely different than Ray's

because Jason's desires with horses, his beliefs, his training program, the types of horses is different, but the foundation to his cult starting where his philosophy started, his knowledge.

where he started his toolbox

came from Ray. You know, if Ray saw Jason today, he'd be proud, you know? I mean, he maybe would be like, you know, he, he would maybe 

question a few things. I'm sure everyone does, but, but he, he, he was blessed to have Ray as a [00:20:00] mentor. 

But you know, I've like, then you go into the performance side, 

you know, I've, I've developed a lot of friendships there too. That's helped me get to the performance side, Ben Baldus, Lavert 

Aaron, 

I mean, very blessed to have those friendships, you know, so very blessed visiting, you know, you, you know how it is.

You visit with all these trainers. They all have, 

you don't have to go ride with them, but if you listen to them, you go home and try it. 

So, so I've,

you know. You know, I've been very blessed with the performance side now. You know, I never knew Ray as the performance side. That was the hardest transition was, how do you get into the performance side?

[00:20:47] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Yes,

[00:20:48] PerryRecordingMP3: Yes.

[00:20:49] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Well, and there's, you know, I, I know for me anyway, um, growing up the 

first bit

of, experience 

I had training horses was that

kind 

of [00:21:00] natural horsemanship clinician. 

Stuff, you know, where I worked for 

a guy that did that, 

and, uh, The horses we were turning out were, were 

practically broke. You know, they were functionally 

broke in a lot of ways. Um, but then going 

into the 

performance side, it's like, you 

thought that was light? 

That was nothing Compared to the level of light that you need in 

the show pen compared to the level of 

responsiveness and 

keeping the horse's frame the exact same when you're asking for different maneuvers and keeping them soft 

and

keeping them fluid and cadence is a big issue and all of that kind of stuff and 

um,

It is a different world for sure and I've heard stories 

about Ray Hunt, um, Not necessarily even liking the performance horse world in, in a lot of ways, where, you know, 

he, it was not his jam, that was not what he did.

And, uh, that was not even necessarily what he [00:22:00] appreciated 

in some ways. 

[00:22:02] PerryRecordingMP3: You know, like they're at the end,

um, 

when I was with them, we'd have cutting trainers come in and stuff, and he's like.

They're just a trainer, they're just a trainer,

you know, like,

you know, he missed this, he missed that.

Well, it wasn't a, 

I mean,

nothing against either one of them.

[00:22:24] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Mm 

[00:22:24] PerryRecordingMP3: It's just what, it's just different. I mean, it's,

how do we get to that point that 

every one of us is about the horse?

You know, but we're also trying to pave our own highway. 

[00:22:40] _1_01-31-2025_093434: That's true. 

That's 

very true. 

So along those lines then, do 

you think that there's a universal principle 

that applies to good horsemanship in general. or do you think it is more specific to 

each individual horse and each 

individual scenario? 

[00:22:58] PerryRecordingMP3: I never, I don't train any horse the [00:23:00] same. 

Every one of them 

is individual. 

Like you try to put the same buttons on 'em, but not every buttons work the same. 

[00:23:10] _1_01-31-2025_093434: That's so true. That's a good way to say it 

[00:23:12] PerryRecordingMP3: What makes the great horseman is be able to fit that horse 

Um, 

 I, I used to fight lead changes until I went back to how, I worked with a lot of cow horse guys, you got to do this, you got to do this, you got to do this. And I lost all my lead changes. I couldn't get a lead change to save my, 

[00:23:31] _1_01-31-2025_093434: I've been there.

[00:23:32] PerryRecordingMP3: I went back to my dressage in English life. 

I don't have no problems with lead changes now. 

[00:23:40] _1_01-31-2025_093434: What was the thing that really helped you there? 

[00:23:42] PerryRecordingMP3: When I teach horses to lead change, it's, um, it's, 

on their time. You know, you 

got 'em all correct and everything, but

I, there's where I benefit. I have 

30.

miles of the ranch, I can lope a straight line. [00:24:00] 

If I have them in the left lead, 

I set them up and I wait on them

until they go to the right lead. I don't have a 150, 300 foot arena that I have to get it in that deal. I let them find it. The next thing you know, it might take you 100 yards before they find it.

Next time you ask them, it might take 80 yards. Next thing you know, you do. you just sit there? and you can switch every other cadence with them because it's no pressure. You just, I mean, that's where I'm fortunate, um, is that, you know, I get to, like when I'm moving cattle, I'm loping down the sides and halfway down, I ask them to switch leads.

When I get to the, cause time they switch leads, I'm at the front of the cows. They get to stop. They get to relax. They know that they did the Right, thing. I turn around. I look [00:25:00] back to the back because cattle came off the road again. I switch lead. You know, you just, I make it a game. And then they enjoy the game.

He's never not training. I'm never. And that's where it gets me in the, show pen. You know, a lot of people, a lot of my good friends say, Jason, show your horse. Quit training.

[00:25:24] _1_01-31-2025_093434: I love it. Um, so what are 

some major challenges then, 

or pet peeves that you have when you get outside horses in for training? 

[00:25:33] PerryRecordingMP3: my biggest pet peeve.

Like, so, 

if they been rode. 

You know, if it's, you know, tune up or whatever, 

most of it. is 

horses don't have a work ethic. 

[00:25:47] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Hmm, 

[00:25:48] PerryRecordingMP3: I'm not saying drill them,

but 15 minutes, the first 15 minutes they can do everything great,

then they're done. Or they think they should be done. Or they think they should be done. You 

know, [00:26:00] it's, it's work ethic. It is, um,

it's, 

and it goes on the people's I mean, on young horses you know, a lot of 

times, and you're probably, you could agree with this, like, if you got a coming two year old, you'd rather have it not halt and broke.

[00:26:17] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Oh, Yeah, 

[00:26:19] PerryRecordingMP3: because A horse, 

They learn every, they're like a sponge 

and that's not against the people. 

but It's tough because every time you touch them, if you don't 

discipline them is different than abuse 

or punishment, but 

we all need disciplined. Even the people need to have that discipline that every time you touch them.

Every time you touch it, you're teaching them something. 

Good, bad, or indifference. You're gonna teach a You're gonna teach that horse something.

 And the thing about it is. You're going to discipline the horse to get the work ethic. Yeah, and the 

[00:26:55] Sarah: worse the work ethic.

[00:26:57] _1_01-31-2025_093434: has been programmed into that horse by a [00:27:00] well meaning owner the more we have to

[00:27:02] PerryRecordingMP3: Yes. Gets the point across. We're not, it's not meanness. It's just discipline. We, we as horseman's know how far to take it. mean, the horse tells us if we go overboard the next day,

[00:27:17] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Oh, yeah.

That's

[00:27:18] PerryRecordingMP3: If the horse isn't better the next day, did I not go far enough?

If the horse is worse, did I go too far? You know, it's all about the discipline and that is why us horse trainers, I would rather say horse educators instead of a trainer. 

That's why our mind mentally is so blown at the end of the day. 

You know, time, 

time you ride 19 horses 

or 20

a day 

in programming your brain every day. And all of them are different and need different things. 

You're mentally shot. 

So go back to the pet peeve. I wish that we could, I wish that.

we could teach 

and educate more [00:28:00] people on the discipline, understanding how the horse works. Like on horse psychology. If you do this, this is what you're going to get. 

When I 

go back with like Ray, when I first started, when I was training, then I quit because I became my own.

You wanted to work on your breeding program. Breeding program. So he was, he ended up, he didn't mean to do it, but he ended up being able to get his non-pro card back because he was just training his own. But I took every rank horse in the world before. Before that, when I was 21, 22, 23, I was known that, that that's all I took was troubled horses.

I mean, ones that bit you kicked, you, struck, you, bucked you off. 

He was a problem. Horse fixer. And I don't want that no more. Yeah. But the thing about it is, is I think it made me for who I am now. 

I, I, paid my dues to understand. [00:29:00] So these new breeding of horses and stuff, 

they're fun.

I mean, 

you know, you don't have to take them on a 

15 mile ride and come back. Then 

you can work with them. on stuff because you finally have their brain. You know, five minutes, you're, you're already doing something. A lot of times these new, the new lines, like 

McStud, I'm just going to throw McStud out there.

His babies, you can, you can climb on them and if you weren't a horseman and warmed them up, you can go right to doing stuff with them because they're ready to learn.

[00:29:37] _1_01-31-2025_093434: bred to be trained. they're ready to be, they're They're with you. They believe in you. They trust you. You know, they'll walk through a fire pit for you, even though you don't want to, but they're going to do it just to please you.

[00:29:51] PerryRecordingMP3: I mean, I mean, it used to be those are the kind I like to ride.   

I prefer the [00:30:00] ones that don't try to kill me. You know, why, 

why I went to Ray? Because 

I never knew if I was going to walk home or get the ride home 

when I was growing up. 

I learned how to ride 

because I didn't want to walk home. Ray taught me how to control that so you didn't have to walk home. How to make a better horse.

[00:30:18] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Mm hmm. 

[00:30:19] PerryRecordingMP3: You know, a horse thinks every hundredths of a second, a human thinks every 15 

seconds. My brain works so fast 

because That's 

what I've taught it to do and I've caused it to do things that it shouldn't do. 

[00:30:33] _1_01-31-2025_093434: We all have. 

[00:30:34] PerryRecordingMP3: But, 

you're thinking so quick to try to stay in front of something. 

I mean, it's like in the show pen. 

You know, I see it.

coming and I try to fix it and 

my horse is going, well, Jason's going to fix it. 

Instead of saying it's on you, buddy. 

I'm just up here. 

That's the thing that gets me in trouble. And you have.

to agree with that. You're trying to read the situation.

[00:31:00] Why am I reading it? Because the animal I'm on, the horse I'm on already has his red. 

You've, you've trained him to show, but then you don't, yeah, 

[00:31:10] _1_01-31-2025_093434: on cows, it's, it's amplified, I 

feel like. Cause, you know, 

everything happens so quick. And, uh, 

it all happens quicker than we can think. 

So, it's 

very similar. 

[00:31:23] PerryRecordingMP3: it all goes back to work ethic, I, I believe. 

Too many people

Let their horses dictate the relationship. It generates a horse that has 

problems with

lots of things. All of that traces back to work ethic. So it goes back to the horse is the captain, the rider is the ship.

Instead of the other way around. 

Instead of you being the captain and they're the, ship. You're letting them dictate everything that happens 

[00:31:51] _1_01-31-2025_093434: That's true. 

[00:31:51] PerryRecordingMP3: I mean, Sarah I ride with my arena gates open. I let them. 

If you want to dictate to go outside, you're going to see [00:32:00] that the work ethic outside is worse than the inside.

[00:32:02] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Right. Make better choices. 

[00:32:05] PerryRecordingMP3: Next thing, they want to stay inside. They want to be in there because they know that it's harder outside.

[00:32:13] _1_01-31-2025_093434: I like it. 

Yeah. And that's 

just basic consequence work, 

you know, where so many people are afraid 

to let their 

horses experience 

consequences and 

not, not in a mean way, like we said, not in 

a harsh 

way necessarily, but in a way that makes logical sense, 

you know, 

that 

makes sense to them and 

helps 

them to 

think and be responsible for their own thoughts. 

[00:32:35] PerryRecordingMP3: The thing about it. is, 

horses are black And white. 

This is where I have problems with humans. 

Because humans are gray. 

We're a gray area.

Horses are black and white. They know right and wrong. 

When horses start learning gray area is when you put the buttons on them. 

You get them fine tuned. Then they start speaking gray area. 

but 

horses are black and white. [00:33:00] 

But as humans, 

that's one of the pet peeves is we're trying to teach a horse gray area when the horse doesn't 

understand a gray area. 

[00:33:08] _1_01-31-2025_093434: that's true. 

[00:33:09] PerryRecordingMP3: They understand Right. and wrong. 

[00:33:11] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Right. It's it's like 

people who let 

their horses scratch on them, you know, and they, uh, try to, they assume that the horse is gonna know what's too hard, when when they're scratching too hard, As opposed to just scratching a little bit, you know, and 

how in the world is your horse supposed to understand that, 

when 

you're way tinier than he 

is. You know, 

and 

it's, it's easier to just 

teach the horse, 

don't use me as a scratching post.

I can scratch 

you, but you cannot enter my 

space to lean on me. 

[00:33:47] PerryRecordingMP3: Yeah. They're scratching on you. They get a little bit too hard and then You freak out on 'em 

and then they're, and then you wonder why your horse is totally neurotic about things.

Well, they don't.

You didn't do the[00:34:00] 

yes or no, you did maybe, and they don't understand maybe because it's, gray.

this even goes back farther 

in this. We used to run nine teams.

We fed draft horses,

okay? An old rancher told me, if they don't respect you in the barn, they won't respect you outside. 

[00:34:20] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Mm hmm. 

[00:34:21] PerryRecordingMP3: Weird. Yeah. Shocker. when you're when you're, putting a harness on them, if they're walking around, if they're, They're doing anything. 

they're not respecting you.

So how do you expect them to respect you when you're outside doing a teamwork? 

I mean, in, you know, teams are like, 

you know, you're dealing with 2300 pounds a piece. 

[00:34:49] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Wow. 

[00:34:49] PerryRecordingMP3: You know? I do not want them wandering around doing anything. That's how you die. I mean, they're, 

I mean, it's, [00:35:00] you know, my best team was a stud and a mare.

[00:35:03] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Wow. 

[00:35:06] PerryRecordingMP3: You know? Of course it was. They did, they, did everything. He, he knew his job. 

No different than our studs nowadays. you know, 

if them studs know their spot, you think they're a gelding

And a lot of people make excuses for them, Yes, they do. But 

you know, and I feel sorry for, I feel sorry for stud horses because they don't have friends. 

They don't have a friend. 

you know, the only friend they have is you. 

But you also, they, 

you know, for years they look at you for not being a friend because you're disciplining them 

so they can't have friends.

But it's all about, I, I look at it with the pet peeves, when they, when anybody touches a horse, it's, 

it's discipline, then friendship.

If you are not the managing partner in your partnership, [00:36:00] 

you are the managed partner. 

In the saddle,

in the trailer.

They're gonna squirrel out. Oh, yeah, whenever they want instead of look for you. And they are 

so much work. 

So much, so much physical work, so much emotional work, 

and they just, to me, they cost so much money and so much energy 

if they are not 

giving you something back as far as, 

you know, pleasure and good for your heart and your soul.

Because that's, to me, that's what it.

is. That's what horses have always been for me. It's something that brings my life good, goodness, positivity, stress, stress relief, And but to me, they need to then be a positive thing in my life. Well, they need to act a certain way, which is one thing I really 

Absolutely. They, they need to not be dangerous.

And that's one thing I guess I've always respected about Jason [00:37:00] is our horses. I mean, I. And are they perfect? No. Is any horse perfect? Absolutely not. Do, 

do they act naughty sometimes? Absolutely. And we have a lot of young horses. So 

there's always a process.

There's always a teaching day going on for somebody. 

[00:37:15] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Yeah. 

[00:37:16] PerryRecordingMP3: and training horses are always in that process somehow. 

Um, but for the most part, I'm, I'm very happy with the way our horses act 

Jason's,

an authoritative influence in the barn. They know they're supposed to act a certain way And they are happy to act that way because they understand the hierarchy 

[00:37:41] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Yeah. 

[00:37:42] PerryRecordingMP3: they're comfortable there.

[00:37:44] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Yep. 

I like the word that you used, authoritarian, 

um, 

or authoritative, sorry, because 

authoritarian is what people hear a lot of times when you say authoritative, and they're different because authoritative is [00:38:00] a person that has authority and speaks 

and acts with authority, 

but also fairness, and 

Is 

a team player, right?

Is someone 

who is concerned with others, the other people underneath them, or that they're in 

charge of. An authoritarian is like a totalitarian.

It's someone

who doesn't really necessarily care about the people underneath them, they just 

care about 

power and authority. 

[00:38:26] PerryRecordingMP3: he's not a crazy dictator. He's, 

he's a trusted 

leader 

[00:38:33] _1_01-31-2025_093434: exactly. And that's how people 

misinterpret it a lot 

of times.

[00:38:36] PerryRecordingMP3: he has authority. 

He expects 

his horses to 

tow the line and act appropriately. He has taught them, 

the appropriate way to act. 

They're all on the learning curve, 

but. 

he wants them all to be 

safe, honest, good citizens. 

[00:39:00] He knows that the world is not going to change to suit them.   

[00:39:04] _1_01-31-2025_093434: business

Business Challenges and Strategies

[00:39:05] _1_01-31-2025_093434: because y'all are You have a lot of different irons in the fire and, uh, trying to, trying to kind of turn your passion into Something That can support you which is always hard. So what has been um your your biggest 

business struggle And what 

are your strategies

to overcome that struggle? 

[00:39:26] PerryRecordingMP3: I think a lot of people think just because 

there's a ranch involved that we automatically have 

the horse program is supported by the ranch. Uh, I think that's probably a misconception for a lot of 

ranches that have horse programs. 

Um, and maybe that's true for some of some of them. Um, So, initially, you know, Jason's dad, I said already, you know, the horses,

the horse program was a hobby for him. 

Um, but when, when I met [00:40:00] Jason, um, quickly kind of discovered that the ranch was maybe not as financially stable as what Jason's dad and the rest of the family all. um And we needed to work toward financial stability of the ranch, which meant severing the horse program from the ranch so that the ranch could work on itself for financial stability.

And then, therefore, if the horse program was going to exist, it needed, to figure out its own path. Therefore, standing on its own two feet, um, which meant no longer being a hobby. its own business, which was obviously what Jason deserved to do his future, what he wanted to do, his heart, his passion, all the things.

Luckily for him, I have a business degree marketing sales [00:41:00] business strategy. That's always been my career. So, I developed Perry Quarter Horses as it is, you know, like what people know as the current Perry Quarter Horses is my brainchild, I guess.

So I developed, you know, the website, designed the website, the photography, and started putting Jason out there and the horses out. there as what, you know, the world, I guess, sees as the current situation. Um, as a non pro person. 

I tried to look at things from the client perspective. I always look at things from the client perspective because I feel like That's how we offer 

what the client wants. so 

I have always felt like it would be cool if clinicians would let people design their own clinics because if you go to a clinic and, you get to pick what you're going to learn, wouldn't that be [00:42:00] neat? Well, 

lucky for the world. Jason has shown horses and trained horses for 35 years in like a ton of different things.

He's kind of ADHD and he's also really interesting because he's like, Ooh, can I teach a horse to do that? And he like figures out a way to train a horse to do it. And then he's, you know, I kind of like roping today. I'm going to teach a horse how to rope. And like, so our cats, Royal Boone, who we call McStud, this poor horse is like, 

I don't know.

He's got earnings in like 10 different things because he has been Jason's like, can I teach a horse to do this? And like, then he'd get good enough at it. And then he'd go show 

McStead at, at this. 

So this horse is so happy to be retired at 16 and like living in our yard because you know he's like, yay, I'm no longer in training.  

But anyway, so

I developed these [00:43:00] clinics that we call cowboy camps, where we let people 

design their own clinics. 

So like, these are some of, the things that trying to have a business that 

keeps the horse program alive and making enough money and being able to do the things to keep the horse program afloat on its own.

You know, obviously we take in training horses, we breed, raise and train horses. We're standing our stallions to the public, 

but also we have these other offerings. You know, we do regular clinics like what people are used to seeing, but then we do these cowboy camps. Um, I was lucky enough to, um, as I was trying to figure out how to be better as a photographer, I went to a photography clinic and, um, a workshop, I met the photographer and I was like, Hey, you should come to our ranch.

So now we host photography workshops. So [00:44:00] like I've become the master of the side gig. Um, just trying to make money in as many ways as possible to keep the ranch, you know, to help the ranch. 

[00:44:13] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Well, and, and

Horses are 

expensive. I mean, 

we all know that that's 

kind of, um, what's funny about horse people 

is. The outside world looks 

at us and thinks 

probably y'all should, y'all look so rich. You know, you've got all, 

you've got these trucks and these trailers and these barns and land and all that. and 

it's like, 

no, that's literally where our money is, is in that. 

stuff. And we don't 

actually 

have cash 

or you know, any kind of, 

uh, I mean it's expensive and we're in debt and all that stuff. So, um, really what 

you're, you're talking about is being

adaptable. 

And being 

able to pivot And being able to be

creative 

in how you use 

your skills and how. 

you market Your skills and all of that.

And I think there's a lot of horse 

people out there, 

um, that [00:45:00] have a hard time with 

that because they just want to train. And that's kind of how I am. And my, my husband and I have had this 

back 

and forth for, for years 

years where he's like, 

literally all you want to do is be on a horse and that doesn't pay.

That is not what pays. and

and I'm like, but 

that's,

I don't want to do the other stuff. And 

you know, that's how this podcast happened, by the way. 

um, 

It's That sort of 

thing. you know, where he's 

Like, you just, you spent a month in the hospital, 

and then months after that recovering, and guess what was happening with the horses?

Nothing. And guess how much money they made you? Nothing. 

Embracing Social Media and Outreach

[00:45:40] _1_01-31-2025_093434: And, so, you know, we have to kind of get a little more creative and push ourselves outside of our comfort zone, which kinda, my next question, which is, um, with this whole social media thing and, and, uh, podcasting, because y'all are doing a podcast at the moment and all that stuff.

I mean, how do you get, [00:46:00] 

like Jason, how do you get out there and do it when 

you don't necessarily 

want to be. 

in the spotlight and taking pictures and doing videos and talking to humans, 

things like that. 

[00:46:15] PerryRecordingMP3: I still wouldn't do it if it wasn't for cj. 

He has no choice. I don't, 

I 

mean, 

I mean, I'm, I'm still lucky to get on Facebook.

He, he thought Facebook for a long time was our website. I mean.

I, 

I stay out

of them.

I stay out of that because,

I mean, 

he's a very passionate teacher, luckily, um,

so clinics and things like that.

Um, 

he's very,

very good that way. The social media,

he, he kind of hates that that 

stuff like he's, he, he, he does not dig it.

[00:46:51] _1_01-31-2025_093434: I 

[00:46:52] PerryRecordingMP3: It's, it's not my favorite, but, but you got it. I mean, you got to do it, um, you 

know. 

[00:46:59] _1_01-31-2025_093434: [00:47:00] are. 

[00:47:01] PerryRecordingMP3: You know, CJ videoing us starting colts for the first day, the second day, the third day, you know, 

what's the big deal, 

you know, 

in it 

to the outside life and to CJ, it is a big deal 

to me. It's just 

my everyday life.

[00:47:18] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Mm 

[00:47:18] PerryRecordingMP3: I 

don't think of it as a big deal, but she wants to get out there, get it. out there, 

how these colts do, 

how they react. How they changed in the first three days. Um, and it's scary. It's scary for me. I don't think it was scary for him, but it was really scary for me to put 

entire uncut first rides 

on YouTube 

because I mean, I knew that Jason had them very, very well prepared. I. I knew that 

it would 95 percent 

Navigating Social Media and Public Perception

[00:47:54] PerryRecordingMP3: confidence that it would go perfectly fine, 

but 

[00:48:00] uncut videos are.

you 

know, from me as like 

the person that 

takes the risks on that kind of stuff. 

I know how people can be on social media and online and I know how the haters are and the Karen's are And the, you know, what I mean?

I know how that is 

and, but I, I plan to put it on there, you know, because I know how phenomenally awesome it is. Even if it doesn't go. perfect, cause there's no perfect. I, you know, like I'm doing it because it's, the world does need to see, and I want to be the change. I want us to show that there are way too many people out there putting these horrific cult starting videos where people are getting planted or bucked over a fence or whatever other atrocities that [00:49:00] there are way too few really phenomenally talented cult starters out there.

That stuff, like people are destroying our industry from the inside out with that. I want us to show that. I wanted to put some high quality beauty on the, uh, out there for like this is what first rides should look like. 

Expanding Reach Beyond Local Markets

[00:49:20] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Well, and you also need, when you breed 

horses, you know, you 

have to have 

more people than just in your 

immediate area 

know about those horses. 

[00:49:30] PerryRecordingMP3: Uh, our immediate area is not our target market. I don't even know if I mean, you know what I mean? So like, I, I'm fairly certain that.

people. People in town don't even know 

who we are or what we do, quite, quite honestly. And, it makes your, it 

[00:49:45] _1_01-31-2025_093434: you want

nicer horses to 

[00:49:46] PerryRecordingMP3: look nicer. Oh,

[00:49:47] _1_01-31-2025_093434: for

training, usually it's out of 

your immediate area as well, 

just 

numbers wise. 

You know, you 

[00:49:54] PerryRecordingMP3: absolutely. 

Overcoming Distance in the Horse Industry

[00:49:55] PerryRecordingMP3: I mean, we have,

we have people that send us [00:50:00] horses from across the country. I, I mean, that's, you know, the way, the way the horse industry is now, it's,

you find a trainer you like, you don't, 

you 

don't care 

if they're

four states away. you find a trainer that you think is 

where your horse should be and you send them there.

You know, with, with FaceTime 

and, and videos and 

it,

with the social media, you know, that I hate, but, but you, you can always, 

you can interact with them. 

You know, we have clients from Florida, we have clients from, 

you know, South Carolina, you know, you're still interacting with them. I mean, Yeah.

I mean there's airports and there's FaceTime videos and there's, there are, you know, it's not maybe most convenient, but it, 

distance can be overcome.

If the desire, if the desire of the owner is there, it, distance can be overcome if you know, 

if you want it to. [00:51:00] 

[00:51:00] _1_01-31-2025_093434: That's 

so true. And the better, 

the better, 

you are with

this social 

media stuff and, 

you know, texting and all of that 

uh, the better that 

person's going to feel, the more 

trusting that person's 

going to feel. 

So, yeah, it's 

Balancing Tradition and Modern Communication

[00:51:12] _1_01-31-2025_093434: hard though because our, our industry is so traditionalist And 

you know, we want to, we almost kind of have a negative view of. 

Being on the phone or 

being on texting or being on Facebook or whatever. 

And, uh, 

it's, it's almost like, well, 

I mean, the more you do that in a sense, 

as long as it's balanced, the more you do

that, the more people are gonna know about you 

and trust you, and think, Oh, this person actually responds when I ask them a question or, 

um, you know, if they, if they, respond, when I ask them a question, they'll probably respond 

when I ask about how my horse is doing.

That kind of thing. So yeah, 

I feel like it's not 

as, you know, 

we, we want to be rooted in tradition [00:52:00] and that kind of 

means we don't want to be on 

the computer or on our 

face, on our phone, on Facebook. But, um, it's 

really helpful to us in a lot of ways. So 

anyway, 

[00:52:10] PerryRecordingMP3: you gotta be both.

So 

[00:52:12] _1_01-31-2025_093434: yeah, it

needs to be both. Absolutely. 

Absolutely. 

So. All these videos and 

podcasts and all that stuff I think we're actually really good

for. 

For the business 

and really good for our industry, 

even though they're

uncomfortable, but 

that's just us stretching. 

[00:52:30] PerryRecordingMP3: You gotta stretch.

We've done so many things that are uncomfortable for us as we've

grown as a business over the last ten years.

I, I mean, 

I could go on about those 

types of things all day, honestly. 

[00:52:42] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Yeah. Oh, I believe 

it. I 

believe it. So how do 

y'all keep from getting burned out with 

all of these irons in the fire 

and, uh, 

all the 

different 

[00:52:52] PerryRecordingMP3: Burnout, 

burnout is a legit thing. as 

as you, as you know. 

How do you keep from getting burned out? 

[00:52:59] _1_01-31-2025_093434: [00:53:00] He's like, 

I don't. 

[00:53:01] PerryRecordingMP3: know he's like, 

I don't, but 

the thing about it. 

The Importance of Continuous Learning

[00:53:04] PerryRecordingMP3: is how I don't get burned out because I'm always learning,

[00:53:07] _1_01-31-2025_093434: I 

like it. 

That's great. 

[00:53:09] PerryRecordingMP3: you know, like 

I went and worked with some 

good friends of mine before I went to the snaffle bit futurity.

I didn't even think I could work a cow 

because they taught me something different and I put that 

to my use now 

and it's amazing. It's amazing how my horses have changed even more. 

So it's always getting yourself out there and learning, 

and learning, and learning. And you, you're going, well, 

how can you be burned out if you're trying to step to that next goal?

You know, how, how, you know, how can you, I mean, is there days that you have to drag your feet to go ride? Yes, but I am a, I'm one of them guys. Guys, and I tell my clients and everything when they walk through the barn [00:54:00] door, I bring out a saying is clear the mechanism. No different than like on for the love of the game with Kevin Costner.

When you walk into that door, 

no matter what's going on on the outside world, when you walk in our barn, you clear it. It's all about the horse learning. Let's do it. And That's something that I do every day when I walk in the door. I clear everything out. 

It's all about what I need to get done that day.

So it's one of them deals like 

how do you, how do you get burned out when you love it?

You can get frustrated, 

but frustration is learning. 

[00:54:41] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Mm hmm. That's so true.

Dealing with Negativity and Burnout

[00:54:43] _1_01-31-2025_093434: I worked for a guy for a 

while, 

um, who was just so negative, just

so negative.

He 

hated the industry. He'd 

been in it forever. He'd trained forever. 

Everybody was 

out to get 

him. 

Um, you know, there was no There was no 

[00:55:00] positivity 

anywhere. If I'd say, 

Oh, I want to, you know, I really want to

go show

rainers, or I

want to try 

this cow horse thing or 

whatever, he'd just talk about how expensive 

it is 

and how 

hard it is.

And you know, all of that 

stuff. And, um. 

And then, you know, I was doing lessons 

under this guy, 

teaching

other people 

who came in and every time they'd leave, you know, it'd 

be negative, negative, negative, about these people and you know, how they don't appreciate 

us and they blah, blah, blah. 

So I burned out. 

I burned out 

hard. 

You know, I was, and he's 

like, you don't want to be a part of this industry. You don't want to do this. It's just, you know, we're always broke. We're always 

tired. um, blah, blah, blah, And, it was just, 

you know, there was not a culture of learning and passion and,

getting after it, you know, and it was the opposite of that.

And I mean, I did burn out 

big time and, and lately, since my kind of in my second wave of doing all of this, um, my attitude has been [00:56:00] totally different. And it's been a lot like yours, Jason, where it's like. Let's go figure stuff out. Let's go learn how to do this. Let's do it better. Let's ask some people who I know are better than me how I can do it better.

And it does make, it makes every single day kind of 

bigger than that 

particular day. And bigger 

than yourself. 

[00:56:19] PerryRecordingMP3: it's 

hard. 

But how I look at it, if I help one person out of 10, I've succeeded.

[00:56:24] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Yes. 

[00:56:26] PerryRecordingMP3: Yeah. I mean, this industry is hard. It's

really hard. You can't let the other nine bring you down.

[00:56:33] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Mm 

hmm. 

[00:56:35] PerryRecordingMP3: If I helped that one per, if I help one person, if I have one client that I truly helped,

I 

see. Succeeded.

You can only do the best you can do, 

so you can't get down on yourself. and trust me, I do get down on myself, 

but everybody does,

yeah, exactly. But the horses. Bring me back out of it 

Because I see how I help them 

Or how they help me 

[00:56:56] _1_01-31-2025_093434: So 

[00:56:57] PerryRecordingMP3: know I mean if I if [00:57:00] I can't get out of bed in the morning as soon as I you know, doug even said this 

I feel the best when i'm on the horse. It just is a happy place 

I mean, how can you not be happy?

He's happy sitting on an animal 

that   

could kill you if he wanted to, but 

wants to be a partner.

You know, I mean, Yeah. 

Yeah.

you know,

we're in, we're in 1st of February And it's 67 degrees. I mean, how can you not love it right now.

Not like two weeks ago, but Yeah. today, 

It's about the love of the game. 

[00:57:35] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Yeah. And that's why I think it's so important to be around, 

um, other people 

and find other people who, who love it too. And. You know, kind of rub 

[00:57:44] PerryRecordingMP3: Right. 

[00:57:44] _1_01-31-2025_093434: other that way. And some, some 

days when we're not feeling it as 

much, you can kind 

of borrow somebody else's passion because it it really does, it's a 

[00:57:53] PerryRecordingMP3: Yep. 

[00:57:53] _1_01-31-2025_093434: know, having that rub off on you.

And, uh, it's, 

I think that's massive 

[00:57:59] PerryRecordingMP3: [00:58:00] absolutely. I mean, I, I don't, I can't quote who said it, but 

put yourself around people 

that's excited. You know, 

if you're around negative, you're Gonna be negative. Absolutely. But if you're around people that 

is gungho

and let's rock and roll,

you're gonna, they're gonna feed off from you.

Oh yeah. You're gonna feed off from them,

you.

know, 

the energy. I love that energy.

Absolutely. you know, 

it just makes you

want to try harder, and 

[00:58:28] _1_01-31-2025_093434: for whatever reason you learn faster. too, that way. 

[00:58:31] PerryRecordingMP3: way. Oh yes. I was at a, 

a friend of mine right before the futurity And, I could not get what they wanted.

I could not wrap my brain around it. I said, get on my horse. 

It was amazing what they could get my horse to do that I couldn't get it to do. Things like, Jason, your horse is trained. You did a good job, Jason. Just do this and this. And you're going, you know, I'm one of them that still can't. I mean, I mean, I can rope,

I [00:59:00] love it.

but I can't do rope tricks.

I can't do, you know, 

the butterfly, I can't, I mean, I've been out behind the barn

trying It because I, because I don't want no one to see me. Because I can't do it, I still can't do it. You know, and it's like, in the, in the reining, the herd work.

or down the fence, you know, you show me, I'm gonna go bust my butt to try to get it better. And that's what drives me from not getting burned out because I want to be the best I can be. 

It's the funny thing about goals, right? There's no age. There's no, there's no like, oh, once you hit 50, 

you're not allowed to have any goals anymore. 

Like you see the gray here, yeah? 

Who says, who says you're not allowed to have goals anymore?

[00:59:52] _1_01-31-2025_093434: and that's kind of why,

you know, 

horse people, I think, don't really 

understand retirement, You know, it's not [01:00:00] because it's such a manufactured concept, 

[01:00:02] PerryRecordingMP3: product. Yeah, well, right. Well, 

[01:00:06] _1_01-31-2025_093434: that is, that's a thing. But, but like the concept of just sitting around, and waiting to die, you know, that does not compute with us. and we just, we just, they're going to keep going until we can't anymore physically. 

[01:00:23] PerryRecordingMP3: That's why they make mounting blocks 

[01:00:25] _1_01-31-2025_093434: right? Exactly, Um, okay, so

let's move on to this next section, which is kind of bigger.

Challenges and Trends in the Horse Industry

[01:00:31] _1_01-31-2025_093434: What are some challenges or problematic trends that you see in industry, 

and 

then the positive spin on that

is what do you want it, what do 

you think we should do about it, and what are you 

trying to do about it? 

[01:00:42] PerryRecordingMP3: I think we're, I think we're slitting our own throats. And that's what scares me. 

[01:00:46] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Really, why? 

[01:00:47] PerryRecordingMP3: cause we're not sticking together. 

[01:00:50] _1_01-31-2025_093434: What are some examples of 

[01:00:51] PerryRecordingMP3: You can go back to like the pony club, and, you know, say the thoroughbreds and, 

you know, the [01:01:00] reiners, the cow horse guys. 

You think that when 

we won't stick together to protect each other from. The outside environment that's coming in. Um, I'm not talking about like extremist groups. Yes, like oh, they're but they're picking on them They won't never pick on us.

They won't never come after us. It's your problem You know, I I think that? 

if we're skating on thin ice there if we were all Back in each other. I mean, we're all trying to do what we want to do for it for our generations coming up You know, I got a four year old, you know I want her to have it when she's 50.

We keep going down this road, are we going to have it when she's 50? 

Don't know that. 

[01:01:51] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Mm hmm, 

[01:01:52] PerryRecordingMP3: You know, it's, it's scary. i think that's a valid i think that's a valid thing that?

[01:01:59] _1_01-31-2025_093434: mm hmm, [01:02:00] 

[01:02:00] PerryRecordingMP3: as an industry as a whole we are walking on very thin ice if we do not start sticking together we 

are helping our own demise i mean if you didn't have If you don't have ranchers, how can you have cowhorse?

What does cowhorse take? Cows.

You know? Yeah, What does, what does the top reiners need? They need horses. 

If you don't take care of your breeders, you don't have. If you don't take care of your breeders, what do you not have? You don't have horses.

it's, 

it's not, well the breeders will take care of their own self. The ranchers will take care of their own self. 

What, what would impact the world the most? 

And how big would the oil be? Organization be, if 

we all went together, 

no one could touch us. 

[01:02:53] _1_01-31-2025_093434: That is very true. And and there are people that, I would

say the 

vast majority of people [01:03:00] who don't understand the horse, world probably have

some negative thoughts 

about Bits

and horseshoes 

[01:03:09] PerryRecordingMP3: right. And 

[01:03:10] _1_01-31-2025_093434: like that. Just because they don't it's like, Oh, it's metal, right? So therefore 

it must hurt stuff like that. Because, and the reason I say that is 

just because I've had 

people ask me, well, do bits 

hurt? 

No, that's the first question 

out of nowhere. 

The bits hurt, the shoes hurt when you 

nail it into their hoof. I mean, it's so, there are so many opportunities for the 

activists to kind 

of prey on that 

and twist the public's understanding of what we're doing.

[01:03:38] PerryRecordingMP3: Of course. 

[01:03:39] _1_01-31-2025_093434: um, I think 

we're so inward facing, 

as the horse 

industry too, because I think partly we're just busy, you know, we need to get out there and ride. And all we want to, we don't really want to 

deal with people. We get along with animals better anyway, 

[01:03:53] PerryRecordingMP3: Right. That's our preference. Our preference is to Yeah. Be at the barn and 

[01:03:57] _1_01-31-2025_093434: animals, right. [01:04:00] 

[01:04:00] PerryRecordingMP3: No education. 

Yeah. 

We need 

[01:04:02] _1_01-31-2025_093434: the education, yeah. 

Somebody we 

We've got to have people more outward facing and 

representing us 

well. 

[01:04:10] PerryRecordingMP3: Right. And 

[01:04:11] _1_01-31-2025_093434: And answering those, what we consider 

to be dumb questions. 

Um, 

because people have no 

other 

people that'll help them.

That'll 

help them 

understand. 

[01:04:20] PerryRecordingMP3: So I think that's, 

I think that's a really good point. I think that is something that's very dangerous our industry. Um, I think 

Something else that's dangerous for our industry 

is that there

is 

a lack of opportunity for 

youngsters 

as far as just opportunity. 

Um, if you're not 

born into, 

into things, 

um, you know, if you're not born into a cow horse family or there's just not a lot of opportunity for youth to get into horses. If they, you know, like I was [01:05:00] lucky, I wasn't born into. a family that had horses and things like that, but you know, born into a middle class family, I got the opportunity to take, you know, to take lessons and do things.

Um, but there's a lot of kids that have a lot of desire that maybe didn't don't have those opportunities. So I think that's another, you know, the next generation of potential horse kids, there's not as many opportunities as there used to be. So I think that's also a problem. It's, it's terribly expensive.

There aren't as many. Just riding, you know, lesson programs and different things that there used to be because horses are so much more expensive.

now that there aren't just boarding, you know, stables that just offer straight lessons and things like that anymore.

[01:05:49] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Right. I have people all the time ask me 

I have a kid that wants to start riding. Do you do lessons? 

And 

[01:05:55] PerryRecordingMP3: Yeah. 

[01:05:56] _1_01-31-2025_093434: to tell him I don't, 

[01:05:57] PerryRecordingMP3: Yeah. Same. 

[01:05:58] _1_01-31-2025_093434: don't have a, I mean, We have a [01:06:00] horse. that we can use as a, lesson horse 

but he's been down that road 

before, and It takes a

[01:06:04] PerryRecordingMP3: It definitely does. 

[01:06:05] _1_01-31-2025_093434: know, and he's not a He's, he's a little too mentally fragile to do that for a long period of time, um, without consequences and um, and I don't know where to send them.

I used to, I used to have a ton of people that I could say, yeah, this person, this 

person, and this person all do really good job with

kids 

and they all have less than horses and all of that. And now, if you don't have your own horse. you know, you're kind 

of in 

[01:06:34] PerryRecordingMP3: Right. 

[01:06:35] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Unless you're willing to work. Unless you're willing to 

work really, really, hard for pretty 

much 

[01:06:42] PerryRecordingMP3: Yep.

[01:06:42] _1_01-31-2025_093434: um, for a while. Which is how I think most of us did

it. 

It's just that a lot of 

parents 

don't 

want to have their kid do that 

now. 

[01:06:49] PerryRecordingMP3: That's how we did it, but 

when they When they leave college, they want 

They want to make more money than 

Jason. You know, they want They want to They think that 

What [01:07:00] happened to 

Paying your dues. 

That's also, that's, that was my next, yeah, So riding programs, industry slitting its throat, 

and paying your dues are the three 

problems we see in the horse industry.

You've got to,

you know, if I had it to do all over again, 

I would work for someone that gave me a house and food. 

and taught you stuff. And taught me. 

Now they want 

30 bucks an hour, house to live in, and won't clean stalls, and want to ride. The,

you know, they just want only the good horses.

Yeah. And you're like, Right, 

You know why 

in my books, you never get good. I'm gonna say you gotta ride the junk to become good. 

[01:07:41] _1_01-31-2025_093434: you 

[01:07:42] PerryRecordingMP3: You too. It teaches you so much. And you learn how to get sticky real quick and diffuse bombs. Really? Yes.

How do you get good decision from BA making bad decisions?

[01:07:53] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Mm 

[01:07:54] PerryRecordingMP3: I mean, you're, you make enough bad decisions, you'll start making bad, you're gonna start making good [01:08:00] decisions. 

but you gotta look at the lifestyle that we live now. 

Most kids don't understand bad decisions 

because somebody's fixed 'em for 'em. Maybe 

they, they can wiggle their way out of the bad decisions, 

you know, I hate to say it.

Consequences. There's no consequences. You know, if I. I got in trouble in school. I did not want to come home. 

[01:08:18] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Mm hmm. Mm 

[01:08:19] PerryRecordingMP3: It wasn't because I, they were going to abuse me, they were going to discipline me. That's where we got in trouble, I think. 

Is, 

people think that if you got a spanking, 

That's abuse. no it was discipline. 

[01:08:33] _1_01-31-2025_093434: So 

now 

if 

you're working 

for somebody 

and that person is stern with you 

or 

is trying to give you some discipline, 

nowadays that turns into some kind of 

workplace 

harassment 

or whatever.

I mean, it, it It escalates. 

[01:08:48] PerryRecordingMP3: You, have to re, you still have to say good job when they didn't do a good job.

You know?

[01:08:54] _1_01-31-2025_093434: yes.

[01:08:55] PerryRecordingMP3: There's three of us boys,

we built over a mile of [01:09:00] fence one day. All new posts, all new wire, my dad came up, 

and 

that fence, You could tell that there was posts out of line.

We ripped that whole fence back out and had to redo it all because he wanted it 

straight line. 

[01:09:15] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Wow. 

[01:09:17] PerryRecordingMP3: You learn really quick that, 

you know, 100 degree day, that wasn't no fun. Bet 

[01:09:25] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Mm hmm. 

[01:09:26] PerryRecordingMP3: your fences are good now.

But that was just, 

you know. I mean do it right the first time. Yeah, do it. right. 

So anyway, that's why I'm gonna go with that. That's why I'm gonna stop at that. 

[01:09:40] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Okay. I 

[01:09:41] PerryRecordingMP3: fences need to be straight and do it. right the first time.

Yes. Yeah. 

Yes. 

[01:09:46] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Um, 

all 

right. Next, next question then. Where in the 

industry in general, do you see good or 

productive 

things happening 

that you want to kind of stoke that 

fire and be a 

part of? 

[01:09:59] PerryRecordingMP3: a [01:10:00] ton of passion 

in the industry. I think, um, there's a ton of exciting things that are happening 

in the industry 

Um,

that, that we're excited about. Um, we're

kind of stretching ourselves 

a lot last year and this year. 

Um, getting outside our 

safety bubble a lot with our breeding program.

joined some new incentives and did a lot of things ourselves 

just, um,

you know, that we're 

kind of 

scared

about, but just, just because we've seen a lot of passion and a lot of growth and a lot of things that we're excited to be a part of um, that, you know, that seemed really exciting for the industry as a whole and the, you know, in, in cow horse and in versatility.

[01:11:00] Um, I think the, the horse industry itself is, feels very. Explosive right now. 

[01:11:07] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Yeah, it seems like everybody kind of 

wants to be a part of 

the Western lifestyle these 

[01:11:12] PerryRecordingMP3: I, hate to call it like the Yellowstone effect, but I do feel like I, you know, like for lack of a better term right now with my like six brain cells I feel like I have 

today, but, um, I know the you know, I've, I've talked to a lot of new people.

That have found us via social media or website that are interested in learning. 

Um, I put, 

put together a versatility clinic, 

and put it out there and it filled up 

in like less than a week. Just people excited to 

get learning and get,

you know, into the show pen for the first time.

And it just seems like

There's a lot of passion and excitement. 

Just here in the last couple of years [01:12:00] and I'm excited about that I think that people are starting to figure out how big of a family we are horses in general Yes, and like the versatility side the cow horse that I mean, they're finding out that these events are fun. You know, they're really hard horses have to be really trained It takes a long time, but it is really fun. I mean these events are really fun 

Building a Legacy and Encouraging Participation

[01:12:26] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Okay, I want to hear y'all talk a little bit about the legacy that you're trying to build with this program.

[01:12:33] PerryRecordingMP3: I think legacy is important for anybody. 

There's

so many. You wanna leave a lot of legacies. 

we're not having any more kids, so No. 

No more than. 

The legacy that 

is, it's never too late to start.

[01:12:57] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Hmm, 

[01:12:58] PerryRecordingMP3: think that's a great legacy. [01:13:00] 

I mean,

[01:13:01] _1_01-31-2025_093434: that's amazing. 

[01:13:02] PerryRecordingMP3: know,

[01:13:02] _1_01-31-2025_093434: I 

[01:13:04] PerryRecordingMP3: matter

with so many of us, 

so many things that people can do now. You know, you don't have to be the top 

to go show. So don't be afraid to go do it. 

I mean, 

Yeah, What is my dream? My dream would be to win. the open futurity. that's a dream!

But, you're never too old, so 

go for it. I mean, 

it's gonna be heartbreaking, and hard, but why 

sell yourself short? Never sell yourself short? 

[01:13:44] _1_01-31-2025_093434: And a lot of people I think do because, because, 

all they see are the top 

trainers and 

the 

top riders and The top horses, and you don't see the success people have who maybe aren't as much in the spotlight. [01:14:00] 

You know, like trainers who are 

maybe not 

futurity 

winners, 

excellent trainer or they're excellent coaches. They're 

excellent. 

With non pros 

there, they've got another niche that isn't really as flashy and isn't on TV, 

but 

[01:14:18] PerryRecordingMP3: or just getting a horse 

to Fort Worth period is a massive accomplishment for some 

of us. Oh yeah. You know, 

one that you bred, raised and trained out of 

a foundation, ma, 

from your 

dad's breeding program, that was good enough to just enter at Fort Worth is a.

It went down there and was not outclassed. That people,

that were

big time trainers,

like, you're riding around with them and they're like, Damn, nice looking horse. 

You know, 

that's an accomplishment.

You know, 

[01:14:54] _1_01-31-2025_093434: It is 

[01:14:55] PerryRecordingMP3: she win any money down there? No,

but she wasn't outclassed. [01:15:00] Um, so talk a little bit 

The Extreme Cowgirl Challenge

[01:15:01] _1_01-31-2025_093434: about the cowgirl challenge that you're doing, 

[01:15:03] PerryRecordingMP3: in 2020 Jason and I were at Art of the Cowgirl and we're watching World's Greatest 

Horsewoman in one arena and we're watching,

um, the Ranch Rodeo in another arena and I'm like, man, it would be so cool to 

get to play on a team with my friends, but I don't do anything

Ranch Rodeo at all.

Right? like I don't know how to do any of that stuff, nor do I want to, um, so it kind of planted a seed 

trying to figure out how to develop something for teams for ladies that do the events that we do. 

So it took us a couple years to get it put together. And So we launched it in 20, uh, 2023, 

um, and obviously gals ate it up because our teams filled in, I don't know?

The first year it felt filled within like five days. Yeah. It was crazy. [01:16:00] Um, and the event was amazing and gals came from, we had Canada. Yeah, from Canada and Puerto Rico and like 15 states and it was awesome.

Um, so we now, we do it every year and we have a food truck and vendors and this year it is 15 teams of five gals, and we've got. teams from Florida and Indiana and 

it's called the Extreme Cowgirl Challenge and they compete, uh, compete in reining and ranch riding, extreme trail, 

cutting, and then there's a preliminary event where they have to compete together with their team and then the top five teams come back and compete together on cattle.

Jason designs

the team events and they're really, really hard. Um, so like last year, the, the finals. Was basically like pinball on cattle. So like he said in an [01:17:00] obstacle course up and you had to keep your cattle together in a group and like Move them, you know? Yeah, it was flipping hard. Um, but it's, it's really fun and it's Mother's Day weekend every year and 

we have a live feed and professional photographers and a rodeo announcer That plays everybody's favorite song during the cutting and it's a riotously 

Fantastic time.

yeah, it's, it's kind of what, you know, it's one of those things, like this is 

the change we want to see in the horse industry. Like it's, it's

something that we 

put out in the world that scared the living heck out of us to launch. 

That was so humbling how well received it was and how amazingly fun it is, but it's just a way for the amazing cowgirls in these sports.[01:18:00] 

To come, relax, have 

a wonderful weekend with friends, with their friends, you know, where they get to play on a team, maybe for the very first time, you know, and you get to know the cowgirls in your industry on a level that you never got to experience before. Look at the Top 

trainers right now, some of the top trainers, 

look who it is. 

It used to be a man's sport. 

Everything used to be dominated in the Western world by men. Now look at it, 

I 

like sports that women and men are on even footing, you know, and this is a sport that we're both equal.

We're on a, we're on an animal that we trained, you know, it's not, it's not strength against strength. And it's just cool that the women that like Sandy, Sandy was our judge the first year.

She could not believe she was not expecting the horsepower that we had at this show. 

[01:18:58] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Wow. [01:19:00] 

[01:19:00] PerryRecordingMP3: Yeah, she was. She was blown away. She's like, 

people brought their A game and their, their good horses. And I was like, well, well, yeah, we're not like, 

we're not bringing our 90 ride Colts to, you know what I mean?

I mean, there was, yeah, we come to play. I

mean, we're here to have fun, but 

yeah, it was, it's, it's a good time. 

It was amazing how much

how much fun it was for me to watch. 

These women supporting each other, but competing for each other. In the team thing, you have people on there that, they develop a team that maybe the lowest rider becomes their most powerful rider because they have four ladies supporting them, building them up, saying that you can do it, don't be afraid.

[01:19:51] PerryRecordingMP3: Seeing the team. Just coming together, um, watching teams that I thought that I knew that this girl's going to be [01:20:00] the leader of the team. And this other lady on the team steps up and you're seeing her over there coaching, being the, the leader and just building up the team that they're not by their self.

So like the weaker one became the stronger because they had all this support. It's like, and I've watched them, you know, I know quite a bit. Quite a few of them now, and I see them at different shows. How it's built them up and how aggressive and competitive and how much better they've got at these other shows because of this event.

It's just been, it's been amazing.

[01:20:40] _1_01-31-2025_093434: really 

cool.

[01:20:41] PerryRecordingMP3: Yeah. 

[01:20:41] _1_01-31-2025_093434: awesome. 

 It full this year? 

[01:20:43] PerryRecordingMP3: Yeah. The team's filled in less than a week. 

Sponsorships are wide open though. 

[01:20:48] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Yeah. 

[01:20:49] PerryRecordingMP3: That's 

always the most stressful part for me. Every year, it's like putting on the Royal wedding. Like I'm always 

really nervous about, you know, cause it's, it's a ton of pressure. Like the [01:21:00] more popular it gets, 

the more I want to make it bigger and better 

for everybody.

You know, it's, 

I like the idea of bringing in the extra tourism dollars to our little rural Kansas town. And, you know, I want 

everybody to have 

world's best time 

here. And, you know, got my food trucks taken care of. We're going to have like a used tack sale because I know, I know how hard it, is to sell stuff on Facebook anymore.

Right. So we're going to have like a used tack sale this year?

And have some vendors, I have some vendors. We're going to have a live feed. And Yeah.

last year was our first year for live feed, which was amazing. So like, we're going to do that again so people can watch, you know, watch online and, um, but it's always a little nerve wracking when you're like hoping you have a good number of sponsorships so that you can, you know, you always want to have good payouts and you're, I mean, [01:22:00] sponsorship generosity is really is so crucial when, you know, when you're putting on an event

sponsorships are crucial. But it's, it's Cool.

because pretty much everybody stays on the ranch. Yeah. No one leaves. Yeah. So, you know, you'll go around, like, they'll eat at the food truck, but then you'll see people, you know, putting the rope and dummy out.

They have, you know, 20 or 30 of the cowgirls are there. Roping the dummy and hanging out. Yeah, It's fun. They have cook fires, you know, it's kind of like,

 Like a little town for the weekend. Yes.

[01:22:34] _1_01-31-2025_093434: So if somebody wants to 

get 

information on 

maybe doing this 

next year, or maybe is interested in being 

a sponsor, that kind of thing, where are they? 

[01:22:43] PerryRecordingMP3: There is a whole page on our website on perryquarterhorses. com 

and there's also a Facebook group, uh, Extreme Cowgirl on Facebook. 

[01:22:52] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Good 

deal.

Advice for Aspiring Horse Trainers

[01:22:53] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Okay, so let's move into the very last question that I have for you. which is if you Could give [01:23:00] one piece of advice to 

every aspiring horse trainer? or equine entrepreneur, what would it be, 

[01:23:06] PerryRecordingMP3: Mine would be, um, 

stay true to yourself.

that's pretty 

much says it all in a nutshell, really. Just stay true to yourself,

would be mine. 

I've seen people take the quick buck. Yeah. Um, 

yeah. Like believe in what you're doing.

Don't change to make the dollar 

too many of us 

are broke.

I mean, we're, we're trying to make a living, but we see something that's working.

For someone else, it is not going to fit your program or your lifestyle. . We've stayed true to even though it's been tough because where we're located, but we've stayed true to ourself that it can work by how we are doing things like we've, you know, the extreme cowgirl, how I train a lot outside.

You know, I've. [01:24:00] stayed on to my path, but worked with different people, changed my program, tried stuff that didn't work in my program that wasn't that stuff I didn't believe in. If that makes sense.

I think especially for young trainers, they're so easily, it's easy for them to go down the wrong path, go down the wrong path, take the quick buck, take too many customers, spread themselves too thin. You know, change who they are as a person. Don't promise. Don't promise. Yeah, over, over promise. And then they end up under delivering.

It's really, you know, horse training is a very, very hard?

So, you know, you got to stay true to your core 

And be ready to put in.

16 17 hour days. Yeah, you really truly have to Yeah.

when I hire someone

Show up before I do

go home after I do

[01:24:55] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Mm 

hmm. 

[01:24:56] PerryRecordingMP3: And like me, I go to work early, I get [01:25:00] home late. Is it great on family life?

No. 

But 

if you put in the work, 

I firmly believe that 

you can beat people that doesn't put in the work 

on a less talented horse 

[01:25:13] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Mm hmm. 

[01:25:13] PerryRecordingMP3: because you got them prepared.

[01:25:15] _1_01-31-2025_093434: Very true. 

Love it. 

[01:25:17] PerryRecordingMP3: I got nothing to add to that 

[01:25:20] _1_01-31-2025_093434: well, thank y'all for joining me. I really appreciate it. This has been great. 

[01:25:26] PerryRecordingMP3: Thank you.