Why Your Brain Won’t Shut Up When You’re Dating (And How Human Design Can Help You Trust Yourself Again) with Shelby Alkire

"Trust your feelings & verify."

Episode 79: Overthinking, Dating & Decision-Making with Shelby Alkire

In this episode of Return, Caitlan Siegenthaler sits down with Shelby Alkire to unpack the tangled web of overthinking in dating and relationships. From second-guessing every text to carrying the weight of past wounds, they explore how trauma, social media, and self-doubt shape how we show up in love.

They also dive into Human Design as a powerful tool for understanding your decision-making style—especially if you have emotional authority—and how to make more aligned, self-trusting choices in relationships. This conversation is equal parts validating and empowering for anyone who’s ever felt stuck in their head when it comes to matters of the heart.

What You'll Learn in This Episode:

• Why overthinking feels so familiar in dating
• How trauma and self-doubt drive patterns of over-analysis

• The role social media plays in distorting our relationship expectations

• How to balance intentionality with fun when dating

• How Human Design supports clearer, more confident decision-making

• The difference between emotional, sacral, splenic, and self-projected authority

• Why low-stakes decision-making practice is a game changer

• What it means to trust yourself in love

💌 Sign up for the July 14th Dating Workshop with Caitlan & Shelby:

⁠https://enchanting-shadow-994.myflodesk.com/nk15j3ymwt⁠

Trust yourself and have great dates!

Chapters:
02:57 – Understanding Overthinking Patterns
06:10 – The Divergence of Dating Paths
08:57 – Balancing Intentionality and Fun
11:58 – The Impact of Social Media
14:53 – Human Design & Overthinking
17:46 – The Role of Trauma in Dating
21:00 – Recognizing Relationship Patterns
23:55 – Self-Doubt & Decision Paralysis
27:00 – Human Design in Practice
29:20 – How Decision-Making Authority Works
36:16 – Exploring Authority Types
44:54 – Applying Human Design to Relationships
51:18 – Building Trust Through Daily Practice

Connect with Shelby:

• Shelby's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shelbychantilly/

  Shelby's Website:

https://shelbychantilly.com/about

Want to learn how to trust yourself?

Sign up for Caitlan's free podcast called Next Level Decisions:

https://enchanting-shadow-994.myflodesk.com/nextlevelpod

If this episode resonated, share it with someone who’s overthinking their love life, too.

Don’t forget to rate, review, and subscribe—every bit helps spread the word. And remember: your clarity is already within you. Let’s help you trust it. ✨

Transcript

Caitlan Siegenthaler (00:00.952)
Hi everyone, welcome, welcome, welcome to this very special episode of the Return Podcast. I am joined by Shelby Alkire. She is a relationship.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (00:16.334)
Hello everyone, welcome to the Return podcast. Woo, I am so excited to have this next guest. She's returning back. Everybody please welcome Shelby Alkire. She is a therapist and relationship expert and today we are talking about overthinking and dating and how you can tease out.

Shelby Alkire (00:26.75)
You

Caitlan Siegenthaler (00:40.044)
the red flags in someone versus overthinking parts of you versus what you've experienced before and trying to protect yourself. And Shelby and I are friends. We hang out sometimes, not in real life, but just in the internet world. And we were having this conversation about why so many people that we both know personally and professionally are these amazing, incredible people.

Shelby Alkire (00:47.55)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (01:09.122)
And they're second guessing themselves in relationships or they're dating these kind of shit people. So Shelby, welcome to the show. Also, your relationship episode, which you were a guest interview on, I will link in the show notes, is like one of the most popular episodes. So welcome back. Ooh, hi. Excited to have you here.

Shelby Alkire (01:15.122)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (01:25.975)
Ooh, hi.

I am very glad to be back and have this conversation.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (01:34.934)
Yes, so you've been a therapist for like a decade plus and this came out of a conversation we were having around like the work and overlap in relationships, a little bit of human design. What do you see mostly to kind of kick our conversation off around overthinking when people are dating? Like what are they saying? What's going on? If someone's listening to this and they're like, okay, I'm interested.

Shelby Alkire (01:38.92)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (01:59.738)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (02:03.761)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (02:04.524)
what's likely the thing that they're saying to themselves?

Shelby Alkire (02:09.307)
I think what comes up a lot is when you are, so kind of the person we're thinking of is that person or that woman who's like interested in self-help, personal development, and they're starting to kind of get or want an awareness of their own patterns, habits, and things like that for maybe their relationships. And so then as they're dating or trying to engage in these more intimate relationships, they,

don't wanna keep repeating past, like what they may think are mistakes or past patterns that didn't serve them. And so then they become almost like hyper aware of it and are so fixated on making sure that they're not repeating certain choices, that then there's this over analyzing of just like basics or communication, whatever it is that's going on. So it might be things like, I...

Caitlan Siegenthaler (02:42.252)
Yeah.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (02:57.835)
Hmm.

Shelby Alkire (03:06.277)
overthinking this thing that they said or is this person good for me or is this thing really like a red flag or is this something that I'm reading into or am I reading into it and I'm actually repeating it? It's so cyclical of just thinking like is this me or is this really a thing or is this something I'm repeating from my past?

Caitlan Siegenthaler (03:22.402)
Yeah.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (03:30.072)
Gosh, and like the nuance in that, I'm just noticing, right? Because like, I'm trying to think of a concrete example, okay? I'm thinking of like, perhaps someone on a TV show, perhaps someone in real life. We'll never know. But this person goes on a few dates and is really into this person, but like, the person that they're dating is really anxious and doesn't, ends up not wanting to go anywhere or do anything.

Shelby Alkire (03:42.352)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (03:59.924)
And in this example, they're like, well, maybe I'm just doing this wrong, or maybe I'm just over-communicating, or maybe I'm just under-communicating, or maybe if I just, you know, do something different. Is that what it sounds like when you're working with your clients, or how does it sound?

Shelby Alkire (04:24.857)
Yeah, like as into like maybe if I just do something different this person will behave differently. Yeah. Yeah.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (04:31.284)
Yeah, that's kind of what I think I'm getting at. Like, they'll be less anxious. If I just plan the situation perfectly, then they will be less anxious. then I can see that leading to overthinking of like, okay, I need to do this, this, this, this, this, like maybe the fact that that person is always anxious in this situation means they may not be ready for the type of partnership.

Shelby Alkire (04:37.361)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (04:45.639)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (04:52.711)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (04:58.021)
Yeah, yeah, maybe logistically just based on who those two people are. It just doesn't match based on what that other person wants to be doing or how they engage or their social life or whatever. Yeah, definitely. if you, it's almost taking this responsibility for the other person's, like emotions or experience and almost like not allowing them to have their own experience of if they get anxious around things like that.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (05:02.157)
Yeah.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (05:15.118)
Mmm.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (05:22.744)
Yeah.

Shelby Alkire (05:26.289)
that's their response and they can have that. But then the other person, it sounds like, is more thinking, but maybe if I change or alter the way I'm approaching it, then maybe they'll change how they respond to it.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (05:41.998)
And I feel like this is and for listeners like we're gonna keep breaking this down because I feel like this is exactly where the path if I'm like walking on the dating path this is where the path starts to diverge because this person in this example could go left and say okay, I'm gonna keep trying and doing all of the things and Overthink the way they're showing up

or this person could go right and be like, maybe it's their responsibility to support themselves and how they're feeling.

Shelby Alkire (06:17.617)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (06:22.127)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (06:28.728)
I'm imagining this person as a listener. Like what do you want to say to them right now? Or what do you want to say to anyone who's kind of at that divergent place of like overthinking or something else? It is a red flag, right? Because I think you can Google like red flags in dating. There's lots of episodes about that.

Shelby Alkire (06:50.247)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (06:54.604)
But you can't really Google, I overthinking the situation?

Shelby Alkire (06:58.661)
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. It's... I mean, so on a foundational level, it's almost like we have to simultaneously be working on... I feel like this is such a buzz phrase right now, but like nervous system regulation. But like, just that it's okay to be anxious, nervous, whatever, about a relationship and overthinking, but being able to manage that so that it doesn't have to infiltrate your relationships.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (07:12.258)
Well, that's all right. Buzz it up.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (07:17.57)
Yeah.

Shelby Alkire (07:28.285)
It's almost as if, as you were speaking about that example, I'm thinking...

Shelby Alkire (07:37.249)
We, I think there's a difference between, and I saw this based on, I was watching someone's, I think it was on TikTok, someone's, they were analyzing like a pop culture relationship thing and like kind of comparing it to themselves and stuff. And I noticed that it was, it was about dating with intent and like this, okay, but I want this to be purposeful and I want to make sure I'm making the right choices. But it was almost this over,

Caitlan Siegenthaler (07:52.365)
Love it.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (07:57.614)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (08:05.167)
emphasizing like bringing this level of importance that doesn't need to be there on the situation of like, like are you dating with intent? Are you almost putting so much pressure on yourself that like I have to make the right choice. And when you're so fixated on making the right choice, that it's almost like putting too much pressure on each little situation that maybe isn't that important.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (08:30.528)
Yeah, you know what this reminds me of is like, anytime we go too far in either direction, right? Like in any situation, if we're so hyper-focused and like smooshing it and suffocating it and being like, my gosh, I have to be so intentional about every single thing or like, you could also just like date for fun.

Shelby Alkire (08:38.609)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (08:51.687)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (08:57.004)
You could date for the story and like the LOL of it and just like practice or you know, life experience. I get the intentionality but here comes like some IFS stuff, right? We talk about in IFS, if you have two parts of you, like maybe the part of you that wants to be really intentional and dating with the other part of you that really wants to have fun. If you're too far in either direction where you're just like, I'm just.

Out here having fun and you really desire a partnership and so like 20 years go by and it's like, well I had a lot of fun but I never like actually got serious. That's maybe a problem. But same thing if you're like, I'm being so intentional and like this person doesn't check this box and then you might miss like something, an opportunity. That's kind of what I hear you saying is like not going to either extreme here.

Shelby Alkire (09:33.319)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (09:40.775)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (09:49.617)
Yeah.

Shelby Alkire (09:54.15)
Yeah, yeah, not living with it so binary that like I either have to be like not care at all and just like have fun and just focus on, I don't know, I guess just being like super impulsive or the other side of like everything has to be so intentional and I have to make every decision so meticulously and methodically and make sure I'm not, you know, repeating like a past pattern, habit, choice, whatever.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (10:21.07)
Yeah, which is a lot. Like this is a lot, right? This is why we wanted to make this episode is there's so much nuance here.

Shelby Alkire (10:30.087)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (10:32.05)
And I think we live in a world where on the internet, on TikTok, on Instagram, you have like 60 seconds to explain something. So we're taking in these little like bite-sized pieces and it's like, well, babe, you're missing the whole recipe, you know? Like you're seeing this like one bite of something, but you don't know all of the things that like went into that to get there. And that's why I think we wanna help break this down for people.

Shelby Alkire (10:42.685)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (10:47.441)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (10:55.665)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (10:59.645)
Yeah, yeah, it's so hard to get like those snippets and things online can be so helpful on social media and can be like, oh, that's great. That feels good. That really resonates. But then on the other hand, it misses. It's going to miss so much because. I think just because we create like content ourselves that we know that when someone's saying something in those 60 seconds, they are thinking about like one very specific situation.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (11:08.886)
Yeah!

Shelby Alkire (11:29.093)
And unless that one specific situation applies to exactly what you're experiencing, it's not going to fit perfectly. So it's easy to look at that and think, maybe I'm doing this wrong, or maybe I need to do this or that or whatever. But you only get such a small little facet of such a bigger picture.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (11:46.306)
Yeah, this very bizarre image came to mind and maybe I'll edit this out or maybe I'll leave it in. But it kind of reminded me of like, I'm thinking about clothes. And it reminds me of looking at a piece of clothing, like the content, right? The content is the clothing. And...

Shelby Alkire (11:58.46)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (12:07.222)
instead of being like, my gosh, that's exactly for me, I want it, but you don't even know if it fits, and you just like buy it, because you're like, yeah, that's it, that's the thing, rather than looking at that same piece of clothing and being like, that's a really cool jacket, I'm gonna use that as inspiration for myself to like see how that jacket or a jacket similar to that might fit me. I feel like that's kind of the difference of like,

Shelby Alkire (12:15.344)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (12:29.626)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (12:36.406)
if you're taking the content and being like, yep, that's mine, I'm buying it and you have no idea if it fits or not, versus, yes, that's cool and I resonate with it, I'm attracted to it, there's an alignment piece, but I don't know how it fits into the bigger picture of something I wanna wear.

Shelby Alkire (12:53.157)
Yeah. Yeah, I think that's what I'm like getting from this too now talking about it is that it misses there's this whole part of our own personal feeling intuition, gut and everything that plays into this and that maybe with everything that's online you see it and you want to take it as this is truth, this is truth, this is truth and have everything be so binary that then you lose the part that's like what

Caitlan Siegenthaler (13:10.828)
YES!

Shelby Alkire (13:23.921)
What feels, like when you watch that, does that like, that feels like my situation. Like, yeah, like, and it feels that alignment. Or is that like, that's not for me. Like, they're obviously speaking to something else.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (13:34.304)
or something in the middle where it's like, okay, yeah, that resonates, but like, also I'm whatever, polyamorous or like I'm this and, or I wanna really start experiment, I wanna like bring this little piece in. Yeah. Okay, so back to our overthinking girlies and squirrelies and these people. Cause I wanna bring some human design in, but I really want people to hear like,

Shelby Alkire (13:35.953)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (13:41.628)
Yeah.

Shelby Alkire (13:49.373)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (13:54.983)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (14:03.086)
What are these saying? How do I know I'm overthinking? Because I feel like if I'm overthinking, I could overthink if I'm overthinking. I need to... What are we saying?

Shelby Alkire (14:05.479)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (14:11.591)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (14:18.621)
I think there's going to be...

Shelby Alkire (14:25.585)
wonder if you overthink, if you're overthinking, like I feel like you probably overthink then, right? Like if you take it to that part where you're like, my God, like, do I overthink? Then like maybe, probably. That's like probably a good hint. I think it's also the intensity. Like so that feeling in your body, if it's like that constant, that just that really tight, anxious feeling, that intensity, I think that plays into it too.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (14:32.161)
Yeah, period. Yeah. Yeah.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (14:40.738)
Ooh, that's a good one.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (14:53.61)
Yeah, that's such a good point. This is like a perfect little drip, drip, drip of human design because if you look at your human design chart and the very top triangle at the top is not colored in, that means that you have an open head center. And when that area is open in our human design charts, we...

are really open to lots of information and anything that's open in your chart is an area where you are influenced by other people's energy rather than bringing your own energy to the table. So I can imagine that I would be willing to bet that if that particular piece is open, then you

have a tendency to overthink more than someone who has that triangle at the top of their chart colored in. And so I think that's also just really good information to know. Look at your human design chart and look at your center and be like, yeah, that already leads me to.

Shelby Alkire (15:53.519)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (16:07.212)
energetically just being open there. So there's an opportunity to overthink more. But you and I both fundamentally, at the end of the day, you're still a therapist. I have all my clients that have been with me forever, but I don't take any new therapy to clients. They don't work in that way anymore besides the ones that I have. But we're both classically trained in that. Where does trauma come in?

Shelby Alkire (16:13.521)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (16:33.137)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (16:36.785)
My first response is like, it's probably everywhere. Yeah, so like the intersection between trauma, overthinking, and human design.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (16:39.95)
It's all around. Isn't that fun?

Caitlan Siegenthaler (16:51.734)
Yeah, well, human design, we can layer on, but like the intersection between trauma and overthinking.

Shelby Alkire (16:54.844)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (17:00.445)
Hmm, I... So if, I mean, I guess like a basic kind of foundational thing that I'm thinking of relationally. Like so when we're thinking about ourselves in relationships and overthinking.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (17:16.311)
Yeah.

Shelby Alkire (17:18.583)
If you had a foundational or maybe like early, it doesn't have to be, I mean, I think traditionally we look at childhood, but it could be, I mean, I guess at any time, but just some influential type of relationship attachment where your own reality or emotional experience was maybe questioned or ignored or told that like, that's not true.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (17:42.071)
Mmm.

Shelby Alkire (17:46.878)
Or if you kind of like weren't allowed to have your own emotional experience like if you Like families may do this just very like trying to be protective of like say if something is going on in the home or maybe parents are not getting along or whatever and if you're like Maybe a child is like questioning what's going on? I thought I heard this or is something going on between you two and if it's like no What are you talking about? Like there's nothing there then it's

so there's something in me that's seeing this wrong. Like, because I think this is happening, but I'm being told it's not. So then you start to question what you perceive and like how you, like what your body thinks or feels because you're outwardly being told that, that's not the case. Even though it's totally done in a way that's trying to be supportive and helpful.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (18:39.35)
Okay, I need all of you lovely people who are listening to this to hit the rewind button, go back like 30 seconds, 30 seconds, 30 seconds, press, press, press, press, press, and go listen to what Shelby just said again, okay? Because this is very, very important. I think sometimes we think of trauma as like the capital T trauma, know, something like colossal.

Shelby Alkire (19:08.957)
Mm.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (19:09.42)
this person passed away, this person was an abusive partner, and yes, obviously those things influence our attachment and our relationships. But I think what I'm like shouting from the rooftops here, making people slow down and take in and highlight is it could have been just as, and small is not the right word, just as brief of a moment.

Shelby Alkire (19:17.799)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (19:38.894)
of someone in an attachment figure in your life, someone who had a role in an ongoing relationship with you.

saying something that was different than your experience and then your parts of you, of course, doing what they do as a child or someone younger, making meaning about yourself. Because that's all we can do with that information is like, you said this, I thought or felt this, so now I think, it must be me.

Shelby Alkire (20:02.855)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (20:11.227)
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I don't, it's funny, I always like pulled to that one because, and I don't mind like sharing this, but just, I remember from my own parents, like having a similar experience, cause I think parents wanna, like they want to, I mean, all positive parents wanna protect you. So they do it the way that they know how, but I remember like,

Caitlan Siegenthaler (20:32.993)
Yes.

Totally.

Shelby Alkire (20:37.605)
my own parents getting divorced, but it was prior to that, like I always had this feeling that something was off. And I remember that dissonance between like the feeling I had, but then my mom's, like what she would tell me was going on or her perception, just her own interpret, like, but it wasn't even her interpretation. It was what she was willing to share with me. Cause as a child, it makes sense that you're not going to say those things. And in her head, she's like, I want to protect your relationship with your father. So I'm not going to say anything.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (21:00.344)
Sure.

Shelby Alkire (21:05.713)
But to me, I'm like, what are you talking about? Something is happening. And it felt very like, my gosh, It was very disconcerting at that time. I just really distinctly remember being like, don't you see this? How am I the only one that sees this? But then I don't know exactly what a parent's supposed to do instead. But it just kind of creates that like, what's going on with me where I'm seeing this so differently?

Caitlan Siegenthaler (21:32.174)
And then, thank you for sharing that, by the way, because I'm sure that resonates with a lot of people. And it's like, we can really also see the parental intent of like, yeah, that's a lot to tell a child. Like, oh yeah, shit is not good, and things are gonna be changing, and you better, you know? Like, I hear that too. It's like, what else are we supposed to do? So sometimes it's like, it isn't really anyone's fault, but it is left.

Shelby Alkire (21:47.709)
I'm gonna be changing.

Mm-hmm.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (22:00.778)
in your system where you're holding the bag of like, well, I felt this, but I was told this. What am I supposed to do with that information?

Shelby Alkire (22:00.967)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (22:10.023)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (22:13.61)
We had set the intention to talk about women doubting themselves dating. I feel like we've backdoored it there. Right?

Shelby Alkire (22:18.279)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, definitely. Because it definitely creates that environment.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (22:29.922)
Yeah, and then I'm imagining if we like fast forward to the present day, then it's like, well, if we're never looking at those parts, how do we reconcile that? How do we support that? You know, that meaning? How do we even know that that teeny tiny moment, and I don't know about you, but I have clients say this to me all the time, like, I had a really happy childhood.

Shelby Alkire (22:57.499)
Mm-hmm. All the time.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (23:01.036)
all the time and it's like, yeah, I bet you did. I bet you have amazing parents. I believe that every single parent is doing the best they can with information that they have. And what do parents do in that situation? You're between a rock and a hard place. So like, yeah, you probably had a gorgeously happy childhood and that little version of you is still left with this really

Shelby Alkire (23:03.869)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (23:09.405)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (23:16.039)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (23:30.824)
difficult piece of information that you can't reconcile, especially in a younger brain, right?

Shelby Alkire (23:36.187)
Yeah, yeah, and I think going with that too, that we, it's almost hard to.

and acknowledge, like it's nice to have this perception that like, I had this really happy childhood. And it's not to say that you didn't, but nothing is that simple. Like life's just complicated. And I think you hit, like it's really hard. I think some people wanna just keep it like everything was fine. Like it just, it feels simpler and easier to manage versus thinking like, I guess maybe these other things could have affected, like it almost opens a can of worms.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (23:55.725)
Yeah.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (24:09.294)
Totally. Totally.

Shelby Alkire (24:16.27)
and people are kind of scared to go there.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (24:18.904)
Yeah, I mean even for me, I am thinking about if you would have like interviewed me at like 22 and been like, Caitlin, like what was your attachment? I'd be like, yeah, check, check, check, everything was great. But I'm forgetting this whole huge piece of the story where it wasn't my parents, but I played competitive basketball and like I had this coach. So still a like authority figure over me, I still spent a lot of time with this person.

Shelby Alkire (24:31.655)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (24:44.231)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (24:49.038)
And he really fucked me up, like, because I kept injuring myself. So my body was giving me information. In fact, you can probably see I got these cool little scars right here on my shoulder. I had surgery on my shoulder because I kept dislocating it playing basketball. And he would be like, you're fine. Like, get in the game, you're fine. And like me and my own life, was like, hanging over here.

Shelby Alkire (24:52.274)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (25:03.773)
Mm.

Shelby Alkire (25:11.438)
Yeah.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (25:14.646)
And so that's like an actual physical example of someone telling me something different than what my body was experiencing. And if we go back to like what we were just talking about, about like attachment, we often think of like just our caregivers, but like think about all of the people, teachers, coaches, like grandmas, grandpas, aunts, older siblings, younger, like.

Shelby Alkire (25:28.157)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (25:42.062)
Like there are so many people that influence us that are a big part of our lives that we also don't consider and so I think for anyone listening like Maybe this is just an invitation to look at relationships in your past where you experience something and you were told something different

Shelby Alkire (25:44.881)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (26:03.513)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, that's a really good example too of just how, it can be anything.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (26:10.998)
anything and like I didn't think about it for years. Like I would have never if I was like filling out a form and it was like, what are your traumas? I would have never been like my basketball coach sucked. I would have been like, you know, like whatever. And now I'm like, he's taken up like I wish the man could pay for my therapy. Honestly, like he's taken up lots of time and space because it was such a like year as I played for him, but also.

Shelby Alkire (26:14.514)
Mm-mm.

Shelby Alkire (26:22.853)
Yeah.

Shelby Alkire (26:31.238)
Yeah.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (26:39.374)
It was in my teens, so it was such a time, right? So I think this is so important and it's so cool to me that we got here through a different door because I think this was at the top of our agenda of self-doubt.

Shelby Alkire (26:45.927)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (26:58.407)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (27:00.482)
Because if we don't doubt ourselves, I think the overthinking goes away too, right?

Shelby Alkire (27:10.865)
we don't doubt ourselves.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (27:12.428)
Like if I'm like, sorry, Caitlin, just talking and like not English, double negatives all over the place. If I am like, I have no doubt I'm dating this person, I feel super confident, and I'm like, I don't know why, this actually happened with my answer, I don't know why, but I'm like really drawn to this person and like I'm just gonna keep following that. If, if,

Shelby Alkire (27:14.768)
No, I'm trying to.

Shelby Alkire (27:27.217)
Yes, yes, yes.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (27:41.554)
That is the loudest voice, the most consistent voice most of the time. I feel like the overthinking parts are not in the driver's seat.

Shelby Alkire (27:50.759)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you want to keep some of that critical thinking and asking questions and stuff, but also having something else, like you said, even just picturing it like something else in the driver's seat. But your critical, or it doesn't have to be critical and a negative, but just critical thinking skills can be somewhere behind, but that something else is in the forefront.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (27:59.252)
Yeah, of course!

Caitlan Siegenthaler (28:18.242)
Yeah. And I think to bring human design back into it, you can use, on your human design chart, it will say authority. So you can use your decision-making authority to make decisions in the way that you are meant to make decisions. So that's where you can still, we're saying still run it through a filter. We need to critically think about our relationships.

Shelby Alkire (28:37.533)
Mm.

Shelby Alkire (28:42.887)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (28:48.642)
I think the other piece that makes relationships so challenging is like, we are growing and evolving and so is the person that we're in any kind of relationship with. So it's a moving target as well.

Shelby Alkire (29:02.147)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. That the more information you get or as you, because hopefully we're all kind of continuing to self-reflect along the way, but that yeah, then it always is changing.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (29:13.313)
silly.

It's always changing, so it's like, you can't be formulaic.

Shelby Alkire (29:20.601)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I'm wondering what are the different types of Like when you look at human design with decision-making like what are the different types?

Caitlan Siegenthaler (29:28.396)
Yeah.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (29:32.066)
Good question, Shelby, good question. So the most common type in about 50 % of the population is what's called an emotional decision maker. So if you look at your chart and it says emotional decision maker, this is you, and this can actually be any type. So some decision making strategies are specific to other, like only certain energy types, but this one is anyone can have this.

And if this is you, you're meant to make a decision from a place of calmness, which obviously we all need to do. But for people who have an emotional authority, you have the gift of experiencing life's range of emotions to the highest depths. So you can experience happiness at a level 10.

Shelby Alkire (30:12.753)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (30:30.178)
and you can experience sadness at a level 10 as well. And people that don't have this decision-making authority like me, I don't have my emotional center defined. I still experience life's...

What do I wanna say? Life's like range of motions, but I'm maybe not when I'm happy. I might not be going to 10 out of 10 every single time, right? And so this is the person who if you ever have been out to dinner and like people are making plans and you're feeling really happy and everybody's like, my gosh, we're going camping next weekend. Do you wanna come? And you're like, yes, I wanna come. Sounds amazing. And then like two days later.

Shelby Alkire (30:51.357)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (31:17.454)
the time rolls around and you're like, ooh, don't wanna go, not sure why I said yes, feeling like an asshole because I need to cancel. If this is you, then your strategy is actually in that moment when you're sitting at that dinner and you're like, ooh, camping sounds exciting, and they're like, Shelby, do you wanna come? You're like, you know why it sounds so exciting, can I sleep on it? And I let you know tomorrow?

Shelby Alkire (31:29.105)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (31:43.572)
Mm, mm-hmm.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (31:47.342)
Or the next day when I've had a little space away from this like emotional high, this like 10 out of 10 happiness so that I can get clarity about what that decision is for me.

Shelby Alkire (31:48.208)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (31:59.302)
Yeah, that's good. See, that's such a good tip to have.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (32:03.776)
Yeah, and then imagine a date, whether the date was 10 out of 10, now you're like, my gosh, this person is my soulmate. Hold the phone, everybody, and you've already planned your wedding. That's amazing, and let's sleep a few more nights before we go to that level of happiness. And I'm not saying you shouldn't experience it. I'm just saying you should not make a decision.

Shelby Alkire (32:13.661)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (32:33.122)
from that place.

Shelby Alkire (32:35.197)
What do you think that is in somebody? Like that idea that you can have such a strong emotional reaction to something, but it's kind of like, hey, you may not fully align with this in a couple days.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (32:53.531)
good question. Do you mean like, what do I think causes it or what?

Shelby Alkire (32:58.703)
Yeah, because I could I could almost see that I could almost see someone being like, well, what's wrong with me? Like, so I can't like trust my feeling so versus I know that that's not necessarily it. But like, what's another way to like see that?

Caitlan Siegenthaler (33:10.542)
Caitlan Siegenthaler (33:15.97)
You can totally trust your feeling. Always trust your feeling. What I'm saying is we want evidence that that feeling towards that thing is going to stay the same over time.

Shelby Alkire (33:27.197)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (33:32.108)
So we wanna know if it's a one hit wonder or if it's like, yes, every single time I think about this person, I'm 10 out of 10. Versus like, yeah, that was a really good date, but like, homie has like 20 red flags that we just blew past because that date felt so good.

Shelby Alkire (33:35.089)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (33:52.346)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, so I feel It almost sounds like you feel really deeply and very present Really yeah, but also like like you said will I always feel this for that person which you know Who knows in general but just like is this is this? Beyond this moment where this feels really good and positive and I'm excited beyond this moment of this

Caitlan Siegenthaler (33:59.766)
Yes, yes, which is like the coolest gift.

Shelby Alkire (34:22.179)
Is this going to continue serving me day after day?

Caitlan Siegenthaler (34:25.506)
Yeah, and I break this down on my Next Level Decisions podcast that's free a little bit more. That's like, this is where I bring IFS in some, is like you wanna make a decision from self energy, like your highest self or like whatever anyone wants to call it these days, like the smartest version of you, the wisest version of you, and not from a part.

And when you're still on that high from that date, that's a part that's like, my god, that day was amazing. Just imagine the little angel on your shoulder, Shelby, that day was amazing, we should totally do it again, it was awesome, da da da da. It's like you hear that. That's allowed to be there, that's so great to experience that. And you're like, you know what, you're right, that was a really amazing date. And that doesn't mean that we need to go get like...

Shelby Alkire (34:50.333)
Mm.

Shelby Alkire (34:53.809)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (35:17.39)
the marriage certificate either. So it's just taking a beat and just allowing the emotions to be there, but not making a decision from that place, from that part, from the part that wants to do it. And the place that it should be coming from is like calmness and clarity and really like curiosity and

Shelby Alkire (35:20.121)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep.

Shelby Alkire (35:44.913)
Hmm.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (35:46.902)
That type of a thing. Do you know if this is your authority or not? I know I've looked at your chart.

Shelby Alkire (35:48.113)
Yeah.

Shelby Alkire (35:52.477)
Do you know, I was also trying to simultaneously, I'm like, wait, which one am I again?

Caitlan Siegenthaler (35:56.206)
I, yeah, I think we should use, cause I don't have this authority. So like, I have no examples for people. I'm pulling your chart up. There you are. And you're not, you don't have this authority either. I'm like, feel like you, people that have this authority like know it. They're like, yeah, that's me. Like, yeah.

Shelby Alkire (36:08.285)
Mm.

Shelby Alkire (36:16.071)
that like intense and then, mm-hmm.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (36:17.72)
That intense piece. So you are a sacral authority, which is like a decent amount of people as well. I think it's about 20-ish percent. And I could never have a sacral authority because I'm a projector, so I don't have my sacral defined. You're a manifesting generator, so you do. So you, yours is a gut feeling. Yours is like in your gut and

it really is kind of a response. Like, trust your gut. That was said by someone who has a secret authority with like out of doubt in my mind because it's like that, it comes from like right deep in your gut from that place. And you know what's cool about human design and like decision-making authorities is none of them are in our head. Like none of them, they all come from something below our heart, some center in that place.

Shelby Alkire (36:54.896)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (37:00.283)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (37:13.159)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (37:16.844)
And I think that's so cool because it's like, stop making decisions from here up and start using your body is the messaging just in general. But yours is sacral and sacral is like, like you have this like real kind of like guttural response to things. It really is like if someone were to ask you a series of yes or no questions.

Shelby Alkire (37:27.058)
Yeah.

Shelby Alkire (37:33.746)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (37:45.386)
you would kind of get into that rhythm. So like, if you had just gone on a date and I was like, Shelby, do you like sushi? And you would give your response, like yes or no. And then I would be like, Shelby, do you like tacos?

Shelby Alkire (37:55.515)
Yes.

Shelby Alkire (38:01.351)
Yes.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (38:03.092)
Shelby, did you like that date? And then it's like you get into that pattern and then you kind of can feel your body responding right there of like, yes, no, yes, no. sacral authority is the most kind of like yes or no authority that's there. Yeah.

Shelby Alkire (38:18.525)
Mmm.

Yeah, and do you think, it almost like, I wonder, is it almost like you can kind of have these different experiences, like that everyone can kind of have these different experiences in general, like in small amounts, but that like there's this one bigger way that you like resonate with that like fully kind of helps guide you.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (38:47.406)
Thank you for saying that. Yes. This is like true about anything with human design, right? Is like, obviously we all experience emotions and we all experience emotions on a range. It's not to say that you and I can't be 10 out of 10 happy, right? That can absolutely happen. It's just to say that people with emotional authorities experience that range more often and more frequently.

Shelby Alkire (38:51.612)
Yeah.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (39:17.24)
than you and I do, they're more in the range kind of going up and down than you and I. So it's like, it's more about frequency, it's more about that. And for them, the clearest wisdom comes from that place in their body for a decision. But they can still respond to things or like still have that gut instinct as well, just like you can. You can also wait and take a beat and say, hey, I need a.

Shelby Alkire (39:18.631)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (39:23.559)
Yeah.

Shelby Alkire (39:40.667)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (39:45.908)
sleep on this overnight, that is totally fine. It's just more about getting to know what does Shelby's decision-making voice sound like and making a decision from that place.

Shelby Alkire (39:54.065)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (39:57.862)
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, like you said, it's like all things. But even saying that, no, like that's totally me and that I don't experience like super high. This is amazing often. It's just not, I will be enjoying myself, but I don't have that. There are certain things and that's very exciting when that happens, but it's not a norm for me.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (40:02.242)
Yeah.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (40:12.664)
Same. Same.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (40:23.928)
Same. like, much to my mom's chagrin and her disappointment because she has an emotional authority and loves Christmas and on Christmas is like, you know, 10 out of 10 and I probably, that was probably really hard for her as a kid because I didn't go 10 out of 10 hard in the paint because that's just not me all of the time, you know? But we...

Shelby Alkire (40:32.049)
Mmm.

Shelby Alkire (40:39.869)
You

Shelby Alkire (40:48.805)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (40:51.15)
Just like anything in life too, we need both. Like you and I having our emotional centers open gives us the opportunity to really see our clients' emotions. Like we're a crystal clear mirror for them to be like, here you go, this is your emotion. So there's gifts in it and imagine if like all of us were like living in that place all the time, that wouldn't be great. But if all of us were like you and I and we had more muted

Shelby Alkire (40:54.16)
Yeah.

Shelby Alkire (41:04.711)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (41:14.745)
Yeah.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (41:21.038)
kind of, that wouldn't be cool either. So like we, it's great that we all can kind of bring our own gifts to the party, you know?

Shelby Alkire (41:23.548)
Mm-mm.

Shelby Alkire (41:28.145)
Yeah.

Yeah, being around, like you always want to be around those people who have that really intense, like that's fun. You always have to bring that person.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (41:34.38)
A million percent.

So fun. My son is like that. And like, it is so fun to be like, I'll be like, do you want this for breakfast? And he'll be like,

Shelby Alkire (41:40.605)
Aww.

Shelby Alkire (41:46.346)
You're like, okay.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (41:49.922)
Done. If that's the kind of reaction I get over a green smoothie and a peanut butter and jelly toast, cool.

Shelby Alkire (41:51.709)
you

Yeah.

Shelby Alkire (41:59.943)
That's so cute. my gosh!

Caitlan Siegenthaler (42:01.61)
It's, yeah, like, I'm sure that will go away as he gets older, but that level of energy of like, do you wanna do this thing? And it's like, Like it's the most exciting thing on planet Earth. Like I definitely didn't do that as a kid. But also, you know, whenever he is dating, that's great. And it's like he needs to wait a little bit for that like, Like, Mom, I just met this person, I'm so excited. Like he needs to wait for that to kind of come back to life so then he can,

Shelby Alkire (42:07.952)
I'm

Ha ha ha ha ha!

Shelby Alkire (42:22.437)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (42:31.202)
be like, yes, that was amazing, and then have a clear head when he's kind of moving forward in that too.

Shelby Alkire (42:39.065)
Yes, yeah. And I think that person knows who they are.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (42:45.678)
A million percent. That's what I mean. If you're 50 % of the population with an emotional disorder, you know it. You are well aware that you get that beautiful range. And if you're on the other side, other 50 % of us, you know it too. Yeah.

Shelby Alkire (42:46.651)
Like when they're dating too, yeah.

Shelby Alkire (42:52.965)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (42:59.961)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (43:05.932)
Yeah, there are a lot more decision-making types, but they are quite more nuanced. Like I think the most common one next is spleenic, and that's what I am, and that's like an intuitive whisper. So it's just like, you need to get really, it comes from your spleen, and in human design, our spleen is the place where like fight, flight, or freeze that response lives. And so if you're a spleenic decision-making authority,

Shelby Alkire (43:30.301)
Mmm.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (43:36.66)
it's really like instinctive almost and like driven by instincts. And the best example I have is that the night I met my husband, we like exchanged numbers, but he was from Switzerland and I was living in Denver and I was like, why do you want my number, bro? Like this is never gonna work out. But there was something in me that was like, okay, let's exchange. And then we kept talking and like my spleen was just like,

Shelby Alkire (43:40.934)
Yeah.

Shelby Alkire (43:56.466)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (44:05.698)
get on a plane, like go to Switzerland, like it made no sense. And now we've been in a partnership for 11 years and so it's just like these really wild, like often things that don't make sense but you have to follow them. And so I think that's the other spectrum too for anyone that's dating is like if you have a splenic authority, it's gonna be wild probably. But you're meant to listen to that and you're meant to slow down. And then there's,

Shelby Alkire (44:15.228)
Yeah.

Shelby Alkire (44:27.995)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (44:34.516)
something that only projectors have called self-projected, which is kind of like a talk it out authority. you can sign up for Next Level Decisions, the podcast. And if you want, I go through all of the different authority types just so people can get like the tips, but those are a lot of the big ones. Those are, covered like most of the majority. So yeah.

Shelby Alkire (44:51.197)
Mmm.

Shelby Alkire (44:54.843)
Yeah, and so it's kind of like this is your maybe an outline of kind of how you might or how you make decisions maybe like your tendency. I don't know what the right word is. What would you say? Kind of like your... Yeah.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (45:09.932)
It's like a guide to you. It's like a blueprint, like an operating guide of like, okay, Shelby, this is how you make them. Okay, Keelan, this is how you make them. This is where in your body it is. So that you can just get used to that place and you can experiment with it too and do it in like really low stakes stuff.

Shelby Alkire (45:24.285)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (45:30.919)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (45:31.372)
Like when I was first experimenting with mine, I'd be like, all right, cool food. I mean, food is still kind of high stakes for me, but like, you know, or like a restaurant. started, if I was seated at a table and it didn't feel right, I started to tell the hostess and like not in a bitchy way, but just like, I started to, you know, tap into it in these like really kind of small, kind of seamless, like seeming full.

Shelby Alkire (45:38.642)
Yeah.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (45:57.486)
I cannot speak today. Just an FYI, people, I had to record the intro like several times because I kept messing it up and poor Shelby was a patient, lovely human. But just in a like, you know, kind of tapping into that space and playing and it doesn't have to be so serious too.

Shelby Alkire (46:05.254)
You

Shelby Alkire (46:16.209)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Like we're talking about relationships and like making the right choice and stuff, but that yeah, you can do, we make decisions all day long.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (46:26.114)
All day long, like do the most low stakes thing. Do you wanna wear your hair half up or half down? Or not at all, or shave it, or whatever. I'm having a bad hair day, so I'm like thinking about my hair. But like, you know, the most low stakes things that you can do. And I think that's, that is the key to returning to that place where you can really trust yourself and not doubt, you know?

Shelby Alkire (46:29.297)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (46:34.299)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (46:52.283)
Yeah. Yeah, you definitely have to practice and start somewhere. And it doesn't need to be the most high stakes thing, like getting out of a relationship or something, but just learning to, yeah, trust yourself and I think like bring that compassion and appreciation for yourself and connect back.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (47:10.764)
Yeah, connect back and like notice when you're making a decision from your neck up like in your head because that's actually what we're taught in our culture. Like, we'll go think about it. It's like, no, you need to go feel about it.

Shelby Alkire (47:22.513)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (47:33.794)
You don't need to think about it, you need to feel about it.

Shelby Alkire (47:35.037)
I think you need to put that on a t-shirt.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (47:39.03)
Maybe I should, I don't know where that came from. There's some wild stuff just flying out of my mouth today. Anyways, I was gonna write that down, but I don't have time to do that. I will figure that out later. I wanna make sure we hit all our stuff. Why we doubt ourselves. I feel like we covered that. Why you're overthinking when you're dating.

Shelby Alkire (47:43.805)
you

Shelby Alkire (47:48.711)
Yeah

Shelby Alkire (48:04.773)
I think it's, because everything we've been talking about, the way I'm kind of seeing it is like, so you have, like we just talked about human design and like maybe your guide to how you operate. Because at the end of the day, everyone is, even regardless of or taking away your past experiences, you're born innate with characteristics, qualities like to you. So there's that. But then you're born and you have experiences.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (48:15.639)
Yes.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (48:27.138)
Boom. Yep.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (48:32.27)
That's where the fun stops.

Shelby Alkire (48:33.981)
and those are gonna be molded. Yeah. And those are gonna be shaped by experiences that you have and interactions in life. That's just normal. So it's almost like trying to decipher and kind of, it's like that intersection of trauma, which is, we could just say, you like you were mentioning, big T, little t, just like everything you've experienced that's kind of shaped you with.

maybe just like the guide of like who you are at your core anyways and trying to decipher and figure out like what does that how you can best I guess how you best operate with those two big things intersecting.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (49:18.786)
Shit, yes, that was so good. And also, if you're interested in that, Shelby and I have a workshop where we're going to help you do that, which will be great, so stay tuned in the space, because that was so well said, and I was like, we can't not mention the workshop that's coming, coming soon. Okay, difference between red flag and overthinking. I think we landed this plane, right?

Shelby Alkire (49:25.809)
Mm-hmm

Shelby Alkire (49:35.815)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (49:44.495)
Yeah. Yeah, I think so.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (49:46.924)
Yeah, like it really, you just have to spend the time to figure out if you are overthinking and you also have to spend the time to critically think and make sure that you're also not talking yourself into something either.

Shelby Alkire (50:02.287)
Yeah, yeah, because it could be both, truly. Like you could both be, it could be that you kind of know somewhere in you and your decision making authority, like what the answer is, but then you're overthinking because maybe that's not the choice you like, ultimately maybe part of you doesn't want to make that.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (50:08.333)
Yeah.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (50:18.7)
Well done.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (50:32.684)
Yeah, in a nutshell, that's our workshop. Please come, please come. We will love to help you. And then yeah, Human Design has a lot to say about all of this. It does give you that blueprint to help you come back to you to understand like where did we get off the trail, where did we come back? And that's why Shelby and I are really excited to kind of combine our expertise and host this thing.

Shelby Alkire (50:35.781)
Yeah.

Shelby Alkire (50:59.482)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (51:00.876)
So stay tuned, Shelby. Anything else you wanna share before we go, before we end? Of course I'm gonna ask you to share where people can find you and what you're up to and all of those links will be in the show notes, but like, any last thoughts for the people?

Shelby Alkire (51:18.781)
Gosh, I think we covered a lot.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (51:20.589)
We really did.

Shelby Alkire (51:22.493)
I think we hit all the points. think it sounds, and this could be just me, I feel like whenever I speak about these things, I always end it with like, it sounds more complicated than it is. Like, there's a lot to it, and also it's all within, it sounds so cheesy, it's all within you.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (51:42.222)
mean, but it's not easy because it's true, right? Like this podcast is called Return. Like it is in you and it's like, we wanna help guide you to that place where you can figure that out. We're gonna give you the tools to do that. And that's like lifelong stuff, you know?

Shelby Alkire (51:46.013)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (52:00.168)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (52:02.894)
It's not like we're just gonna teach you how to play for Delisa on the piano and then you may or may not forget it. We're gonna teach you tools that you're gonna use over and over and over again and it's gonna help you kind of decipher that. And I think that's cool personally.

Shelby Alkire (52:15.005)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. It's the ultimate tool.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (52:20.576)
It is the ultimate tool, it is. And it's stuff that we do and use too. you know, we're not just saying this. mean, Shelby's had a reading for me. She's supported my human design work. like, all the time I send people her way for relationship stuff. So it is something that we truly believe in, which is also important. Shelby, I think this is gonna be another top pod episode.

Shelby Alkire (52:26.215)
Mm-hmm.

Shelby Alkire (52:48.027)
Yeah.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (52:50.7)
Where can listeners find you if they wanna just start right now today on their dating stuff?

Shelby Alkire (52:56.071)
Yeah.

Shelby Alkire (52:59.905)
you can find me posting a lot of different things on all the time.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (53:03.692)
All the time, so good. Go look at Shelby's content, it's incredible really. It is next level stuff I could never do, but go look at it, it's so good really, yeah.

Shelby Alkire (53:15.047)
Thank you. I'm on Instagram and TikTok, same name, at Shelby Chantilly, C-H-A-N-T-I-L-L-Y.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (53:22.882)
Both of those will be linked in the show notes. Anything else you have coming up that people might be interested in? Besides our workshop, which is gonna...

Shelby Alkire (53:30.023)
I was gonna say our workshop. This is my next big upcoming.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (53:34.134)
Yeah, same. Cool, well thank you so much for being a guest again. It's always a joy to sit down with you and collaborate and yeah, catch us at our work job. It's gonna be so fun.

Shelby Alkire (53:37.713)
Yeah.

Shelby Alkire (53:48.111)
Yes, thanks for having me.

Caitlan Siegenthaler (53:49.794)
You're so welcome and thank you so much for listening. If this episode resonated with you, please do me a favor and go to Apple or Spotify. Apple, when you scroll all way down to the bottom and you leave a review, you are entered to win a free 30-minute human design reading with me. So very exciting, yes. And Spotify, leave a rating. It just helps me keep creating the show and helps the show get better and better. So thank you so much and see you next week.

Shelby Alkire (54:06.158)
Oh-hoo!