Episode 38: Sober September: The Paradox of Sobriety: Recovery, Adventures With Horses and Storytelling as a Healing Practice with Cat Caldwell Myers

So you've built a strong recovery foundation and now you’re ready to break through life’s glass ceilings and create next-level success that feels as good as it looks? 

I want to help you make it happen. 

Book your free 1:1 Next Level Breakthrough Call, and together we'll:

• get clear on what next level success in your life in recovery looks like 
• name the biggest thing holding you back from having it now, and 
• map out a powerful strategy to create success in the areas of your life and career that matter most 

You deserve to experience next level success, to expand what’s possible in your life, to step into the identity of a woman in recovery who knows WTF she is, and to know exactly what to do to manifest your biggest dreams. 

And I can help you get there. Book your call here.

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This episode of Girls Who Recover is one for the ages. I sat down with my new friend in long-term recovery Cat Caldwell Myers—life coach, equine-assisted guide, top 3% podcaster, author, and adventure retreat leader. Cat’s story is raw, courageous, HILARIOUS and full of wisdom for any woman navigating recovery, reinvention, or the call to climb the mountain to the most authentic rendition of yourself.

In our get to the real talk, Cat and I hit on

• Her recovery journey and the God-moment that changed everything.
• The wild years of driving the “Cheeky Cowgirl” bus and what those adventures taught her.
• The big surprise that would be the beginning of a life beyond her wildest dreams.
• How she reclaimed her voice, her gifts, and her passion through coaching, horses, and writing.
• The power of storytelling—why repeating old stories can keep us stuck and how to use our stories for transformation.
• Practical tools for shifting your state, cultivating emotional sobriety, and keeping positive memories alive in your long-term heart-space.
• The paradox of recovery: when we have nothing, we truly receive it all.

Cat’s journey from chaos to clarity, from shadow to light, is a mirror for all of us who know we’re meant for next level recovery and fulfillment. If you’ve ever wondered how to carry your fire into recovery without losing your spark, this episode is for you.____

Love Cat as much as I do? 

Cat Caldwell Myers helps women own their voice, embrace their bodies, and express themselves through taking one adventure at a time. Cat is an Equine Assisted & Certified Life Coach who teaches podcasting and leads adventure retreats near Jackson Hole. Her podcast, The Adventure Paradox, is in the top 3% of all podcasts.

Website: www.theadventureparadox.com

Cat’sl Instagram: @catcaldwellmyers

The Adventure Paradox Instagram: @theadventureparadox

Facebook: The Adventure Paradox

The Adventure Paradox Podcast

The Adventure Paradox: Embrace the Unexpected and Live Fully - Available Here

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Let’s connect!
Book your free 1:1

Hey gorgeous.

I love you.

I'm so proud of you.

And I believe in your ability to create a life you absolutely love.

Transcript

0:00

Welcome to the Girls Who Recover podcast with Dana Hunter Fela, where incredible women just like you, go to transform life's biggest setbacks into your most powerful comebacks so that you can live a life you. Love. I'm your host, Dana Hunter Ella, transformational coach and founder of Girls Who Recover, and my mission is to pull back the curtain on our mistakes, failures, shame and personal disasters, and light the way for how to use those to create your biggest and most gorgeous comebacks. Follow the show now. Grab your iced coffee and turn up the volume for girls who recover. Let's light it up. hey, gorgeous. Welcome back to the Girls Who Recover podcast, and I am so pumped to introduce you to my new friend Kat Caldwell Myers. She is a part of one of my powerhouse communities and a true hero in the space, and somebody who's energy is so contagious and radiant that you just wanna know what she's on so you can have some too. But Kat helps women own their voice, embrace their bodies, and express themselves through taking one adventure at a time. Kat is an equine assisted and certified life coach who teaches podcasting and leaves adventure retreats near Jackson Hole. Gorgeous. Gorgeous. And her podcast, which is amazing, is called The Adventure Paradox and is in the top 3% of all podcasts all over the world. Kat, I'm so happy you're here. Welcome to the Girls Who Recover podcast. Well, thank you Dana. It's so good to be here. And what a beautiful introduction. Were you really just talking about me? Who is that person? Thank you for that. Yeah. I wanna know how does that feel to hear that about yourself to receive that? It's funny, you go through all of these different identities and then when someone puts them together in an introduction, you can have this moment of I know that's all true, but I still feel a little bit of imposter syndrome. Is that really true? And I think a lot of what we'll be talking about for women who recover is that's like a principle of recovery, is that you're always in this moment of, here you are now, but it took all this work to get to the here you are now. So it's always this sort of feeling of it's really just one day at a time that happened, but whoa, here we are. And now I can look back at all of that, this incredible track record of things that have actually happened that are true and say, yeah I guess that is me. And it's really humbling. Oh, I love that. I'm gonna just up, up the game and say, hell yes. That is you. I definitely appreciate your hu humility also, and oh my gosh, I love every single line of that bio. So I wanna hear all about you, Kat, would you please tell our listeners your story? Okay. Whoa. I think I'd like to start with when you're asked to tell your story, how quickly we can get into our heads into which story and why. And so the story I'm gonna share today since we're talking about recovery is my recovery story. Because without that recovery story, all the things that came after. Wouldn't have happened, in fact. Exactly. I'm not sure if I would still be here on this planet were it not for my recovery story. That said, we can get so stuck in stories and a big piece of my story came through a life coaching program. There was a woman named Debbie Ford. She was speaking in Jackson Hole, Wyoming at an event called the Teton Wellness Festival. And she was basically telling what many of us refer to as her 12th step story and 12 stepping, which is really being of service in the 12 step program right from this stage to hundreds of people. And I suddenly realized that she was telling my story. I hadn't lived the exact story she was telling, but she was on a floor in a bathroom coming off of cocaine, realizing she could never do this again. And that was really the beginning of her. God moment, please, something higher than me. Help me out of this because the way I'm trying to do it myself isn't working well. I come from a background, a family of alcoholics and addicts, so I was a little bit familiar with some of the principles of recovery, some of the hitting bottom, and never having to have it that way. What I didn't really understand is what the front end might look like. That unmanageability, that craziness. So here I was sitting there suddenly hearing oh no. These stories I never wanted to be a part of. I actually have some of those stories too, and I was starting to not invite certain friends out. With me. I was living in Jackson Hole, Wyoming. I was in my twenties. It's like the time of your life. I was a river guide. I was a wrangler. I drove this bus data that was called the Cheeky Cowgirl. You can't make this stuff up. Oh, I love that. And I drove around to construction sites and sold burritos and coffee, like looking cheeky.'cause that's how you got the tips from all the cute construction guys. You know what I mean? I was on fire and I was also so broken and empty and so many sick things were happening. Stories I didn't feel like I could tell anybody anymore. So one that's coming to mind, I am dressed as the cheeky cowgirl. I'm literally in my cowboy boots. And there was a guy I had gone home with at the bar. I call him creepy guy. This is the guy that at the bar, you're like, don't go home with that guy. He's gross. The next thing I know, I'm at a place in my using where I don't go home anymore. I sleep in my car. And I wake up with creepy guy. What about the bus? Are you not sleeping in the bus? No. That's dead. Thank God the boss had the bus. But I did have a very interesting car, so a lot of people knew me. It was an art car. It had elk antlers on it, zebra striped, it wined like a horse. And I had a bed built in it. Like people knew me, you know what I mean? People knew me whether I was driving the cheeky cowgirl bus or driving this and here I was waking up with creepy guy oh no, this is actually happening. And I remember thinking, I don't wanna give this guy my number. And then also thinking, well, we've exchanged bodily fluids. I guess maybe we'll do that. So creepy. Lemme tell you, I'm the only women in recovery are gonna laugh at that, but I'm laughing so hard, I'm about to beat myself. These are like, these are the moments. You just need to know that. Yes. If you're listening to this and you're like, oh my god, what. This, the rest of this might not be for you, but I'm letting yeah know, like you on podcast so raw, like this particular story is wanting to come through for you, Dana, and your audience. So here it is, we're available for it. I'm like working 10 different jobs, I've got all these different things going on and creepy guy starts calling me not in a normal hour either, by the way. He's I wake up at 6:00 AM and he's called me like all through the night, right? And not only has he called me, he has handed the phone over to who I will call creepy guy number two. Number two, yes indeed. I already knew. Basically creepy uno and creepy dose. Okay. Are having a conversation about how since I was so willing to do what I did with creepy guy Uno, maybe I would wanna get together and do the same thing with creepy guy dose. And I remember getting these messages while I'm working my job as cheeky cowgirl and literally. Shaking in my boots, right? And I'm coming off of, who knows whatever was in my system, right? But I'm thinking I'm sober receiving these messages. But there's a part of me that is not emotionally sober and does not know how to deal with feeling like someone's treating me like a prostitute. When in truth I was acting like one right on, on some level. But this next step of we'll come together and give it to both of us was like such a violation. And that was not my last story just to be clear, that is just one of so many that I could pull out that are a demonstration of nice girls don't do these things and these things are not done to nice girls. And there were so many spaces where I kept trying to show up as a nice girl, but inside I was dying and I was terrified. And I had girlfriends who I just wouldn't even call them to come out with me anymore because I would ask them to babysit me and then I would just disappear. I would take off with people and I would black out and I wouldn't even know I was doing it right. So when Debbie told this story, she also shared an incredible offer and her offer was called Radical Reinvention. Now, this was before Zoom, Dana. This was when all we had was a phone call. Actually, I am like putting this together on in real time as we're talking. Okay. In this moment we had these coaching calls where you couldn't see Debbie, but you could hear her. Yeah. And you could hear people bringing these questions and you could hear people showing up to break through their own radical reinvention of whatever they were struggling with. So go figure. I'm like filling out these forms weekly in this life coaching program to get certified as a shadow coach. Okay? And basically you would write out your goals, and then you would assess how you did with the goals you'd written out the last week, and then set new goals, right? Well, we're learning a lot of these like values and principles of being honest and all of these things and telling the truth. Like really telling the truth. Like our real truth. The truth behind the shadow truth, like the real truth. When you take the dark and the light, who are you? What is it? Right? Yeah. And I write in writing, I say, I think I'm having a problem with, and y'all can fill in the blank, but it was an illegal substance. Yeah. I put this in writing. Okay. And I sent it to my coach. I think this is why I'm having trouble, like fulfilling my goals. I think that's what it's about. And I get a call from Debbie's right hand man, I'll never forget his name is Cliff. And it was like, this is the Cliff girlfriend, right? Like I remember sitting down on the banks of the Snake River in Jackson Hole and receiving his call and him saying to me, Kat, we are in the process of certifying you as a life coach. You just shared in writing that you're struggling with an illegal substance right now. Like how could we possibly certify you and you know what my comeback was, but Cliff, I'm being honest, I am available for that answer. That's exactly what I would've said using the principles that we're teaching to justify my fucked up behavior. I love that story because it's my real story of like really recognizing how far off the beam I was. Like my perspective, my, my perception of reality thinking that just being honest was enough that was it completely missing the bigger picture and issue of what was going on. And so he challenged me. He was like, has it ever occurred to you that you might have a problem with alcohol? And I was like no, I don't have a problem with alcohol. I have a problem with these other things. That's what I said in the writing, and he was like, well, if you have a problem with those other things, you might have a problem with legal substances too. And I'm gonna challenge you to not drink for 90 days. Dang it wouldn't, for 90 days I had no drama. I ain't. And I started to put two and two together and I'll say for me, my experience and there's so much more to the story. And so if you're struggling right, just know whatever your story is. Yeah. We all probably got more where that came from. And the beautiful thing is the story of recovery, of finally saying, that ain't working for me anymore. And I joke now because now it's like trendy to be sober. It was not like that when I came into recovery in 2009. It was not like that. It was like, you don't drink. Like what weirdo Yeah. The 2009, my graduation year too. And it's but it was like, oh, that's beautiful that we share that. So it's it was this experience of finding new friends all over and really finding myself all over and finding my passion all over and finding my voice all over and allowing myself to be okay with admitting this ultimate powerlessness, like this ultimate surrender of the thing. I did not want to be, because believe me, I did not wanna be an alcoholic addict. I grew up with parents in and out of recovery. I had uncles who died of this disease. This is not what I wanted. Right? It is not what I wanted. And when I got to the place of surrender of like really accepting that the thing I didn't want was actually the thing I needed and had and was the only way through to all of these other things I said I wanted in my life, in this life, like all those things you read in that introduction, I'm like, wow. Like this life beyond my wildest dreams. That started with, okay, let me figure out how to live a life without a drink or a drug. Yeah. Let me figure out what this ocean of. Emotional sobriety really is all about, so like for me, my gateway and I did ultimately find a 12 step program and tribe and group that were like really steeped in these principles of working with another and passing it on and like really showing up and these incredible prayers and like this whole legacy of the things an addict's brain and body need to do to awaken that soul connection with a higher power to live our best lives like that is a part of my story. The other part of my story started in a life coaching setting. So same thing, it's like life coaching really came first for me was the gateway. And even to this day is a huge part of my story. I pretty much always have a mentor in my space. Someone I'm looking up to where. It's not necessarily that I want exactly what they have, but I want some aspect of what they're doing, and I'm not in the space of jealousy about it. I'm in the space of proof of concept, like Right. The fact that it's possible to have a podcast that could be in the top 2% and that you have it, and I'm speaking to you if you heard that and you're like, oh, I want that. I'm available to help you with that. You know what I mean? Like it's proof of concept. So like instead of being jealous about it, you go for it. The same with when I wrote my book. I had been in this space of saying I wanted to write my book. Then realizing, whoa, that's the one thing, like anytime we put something out there who you become in the process of doing the thing you said you were gonna do. For me owning a fitness club and becoming a weight loss coach and like really getting into what are the things that come up in me when I don't follow through with eating, what I'll say, I say I'll eat, or doing my meal prep or following through with showing up and working out. And for me that was truly transformational and I had. A little glimmer of exercise and fitness being this like, incredible gateway to grounding and feeling my body at its best when I was in college, but I had not been in a sober space around it. It had been a lot of same using it to get over the hangover kind of a thing, yes, exactly. And so like when I returned to fitness in a state of really being clean, and when I say clean, I don't just mean sober. You're actually working the spiritual principles that keep you sober. That's what I mean when I say clean and sober, right? Because there are people who are sober, but you don't really wanna hang out with'em'cause they're not fun. You know what I mean? No. Like I'm all about fun. I'm an adventure coach who hangs out with horses, like we're gonna have fun. You know what I mean? But if there's no fun in it, there's plenty of grief. Challenges and working through anger and all these different things. And the joke is relationships miracle grow of the program, right? So whether that relationship is like with an animal or with your spouse or like with your mentor, whatever it is, it's a relationship. And at the end of the day, the relationship you're really working on is the one with yourself and your higher power, whatever that belief is. Because in between those two things, all these people and all these places and all these pets that come in are going to be a reflection of that. So I could say so much more. I think I've been talking for 15 minutes or close to so I guess like just to land it so that folks know where I am now. I got sober in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, and then I started living in Teton Valley, Idaho, which is kind of like a bedroom community of Jackson. More farming, a lot more Mormon culture over here. And then we moved, my husband and I, it's a whole other story, but we met on top of Teton Pass backcountry skiing and a rescue mission. You can ask me about that one if you want, but the point is, when we got married, we decided we wanted to move back to Chicago to raise our children. I'm not really from Chicago, really a mountain person. I identify Jackson Hole as my healing place. But we moved back to the city for eight years. My husband's job was there. We have a bunch of family there. All my grandparents were there. And I really started using horses to help people through all of this emotional work in the pandemic. That's really where this started for me. And I could tell so many more stories how it all like riddles in. Then through the writing of my book and my book is an adventure story, 6,000 miles with a baby and a toddler and a nanny and three horses to find myself from Chicago back to Teton Valley that I said I would write a book about. And it's written as an adventure story. So each chapter at the end of it, you have journaling, reflections for your own adventure, your own journey. And as I was writing that book, Dana, and like really getting into my story, I recognized the power is in the next chapter. And through this whole story, you can see the protagonist, which is me, I'm writing about the me of five years ago. She wants to live in the mountains. That's really it. She loves being near family and all these incredible things and loves her home and really grounded in all this Midwestern stuff is great, but what is she waiting for? Is she waiting till she's gonna die? Is she waiting until her kids are in high school or college? Now is the time to grow together, to have a childhood together in the mountains. I don't know what that is because I didn't have that right. And so through the writing of that book and processing it, my husband and I made the move. And we have been in Teton Valley, Idaho for two years now, and it's just been magical and transformative. And I have a TEDx talk coming up talking about the power of horses and animal connection. And I'm part of maybe starting a horse high school here. And just all of these things that have been coming through that, that are a sign from the universe that like, you're in the right place accessing your voice, horses, mountains, and dogs, was my original podcast, which turned into the Adventure Paradox, which is the title of my book. And, one thing just leads to another, but all of it comes from these principles of one Day at a Time, learning to be responsible for our own energy and then moving forward. And never in a selfish way, like always being willing to take someone with us because someone, something is pulling us forward and we trust that. So it's like this chain, which is called life. So anyways, I think that's all I got. Oh my Lord, cat. There is so much, there are so many diamonds in that story. And I want you to keep going for five hours, but I have a bunch of questions. Just to get your consent, is it okay if I ask you a bunch of questions? Very good. Good. I knew the questions were coming. Let's go. I'm wondering if you can talk about Y you spoke so. Candidly about the power of our stories, and this is one of the main roles of the podcast is to steer share stories. So that, and then I'm wondering what your, so that is, so you're here telling your story. You're a part of a movement where we tell stories. You use storytelling as a part of your book and your podcast. Literally tell the story of adventure after adventure. Also, side note, I love that you said that your book is an adventure story and not a love story. Although it's, it's the same, but I'm like, oh yeah, that's much sexier than a love story. It's an adventure of living our own life, the one that we were called here to live. So can you speak on the power of storytelling and the role that's played in your personal transformation? Yeah, absolutely. I think for me. I go back to Tony Robbins and I saw Tony Robbins speak at the United Center in Chicago, which is like huge, I dunno if it's 40,000 people or whatever, but I kind of think of Roman times like what it must have been like then, but there's so much energy and you have so many people. And then you have Tony Robbins who, if you guys have seen him, he's eight feet tall. Like it's weird, he's got a thing that happens. He's a big dude that makes him really tall. And he was on stage jumping around. He had just come out of don't quote me on this, but having some sort of heart attack or heart event. Like they basically were like, you shouldn't get up there and burned 20,000 steps in calories right now. So he was like trying not to jump so high, yeah. But this guy had so much energy and he talked about changing your state, change your state. And I was joking,'cause here I am living with my husband in Illinois and I'm like. Which state should we change to? Should we go back to Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado? So I always joke with people, if you're struggling with an emotional state, make it simpler for yourself. What's the state for you? Where you are at your best? Oh, and by the way, if you're not there right now, what story are you telling yourself is true that you're not living your best life right now? Because I don't even playing out on that. Right? So this is where, like for me, I got a t-shirt at that event that said, change your story, change your life. And this is this has been rebranded in so many different variations. So many people use that one. But when I started to like really get it and something that my life coaches in that life coaching program would say to me, they'd say Kat, you're so in your story. And I remember being like but this is all I have. And so thinking about like, when you're telling your story, are you stuck in it? Something I share with people is if you have a story that you've repeated more than five times to five different people, I'm gonna challenge you that story is not a story. It is called gossip, and you are processing it, and you might need to think about narrowing it down to who your core person is to change that story. Because right now you're just spinning and spewing. Yeah. And you're gossiping about your own spirit. Can we be done with that? Right. It's not even about probably someone else. If it is we definitely need to be done with that.'cause that's lot stuff for sure. If you're selling a story over and over oh, and you mentioned COVID, there was a lot of storytelling, a lot of attachment to suffering. So stories that are attached to suffering that we're repeating over and over. Like what? No, that's gossiping against your soul. I love that. Okay. Say more. Say more. So how do you use that with your, how do you use that with yourself and how do you use that maybe with your kids or your clients, or you said something also so powerful about. We wanna be willing to take other people with us. So maybe any of those audiences, how are you using that power of storytelling, especially the one you're telling with yourself to create transformation? So good. I was talking to a friend yesterday and I was processing something that I was a little bit triggered by, and as I was talking to her about it, I said, it made me feel like I was being put into someone else's box and who I was in their box. And then I was like, whoa I didn't even know that's how I was feeling until I started talking to you about it. Right. And I think the power of storytelling, but also receiving people's stories in healing conversations and moving through the energy, we cannot say enough about that. And I think when you're stuck in a story. What do you do? Right? What do you do? And there are times where it's appropriate by design. I think we're meant to be in that for a minute until we're ready for the next thing. So for example, if you just experienced a really tragic loss, I'm gonna encourage you to really go into that. I heard Angelina Jolie say this. She said, when something bad happens, you just go right on through it. You just keep going until you feel something else. We used to joke as guides don't like the weather. Wait 20 minutes. Right? But I think like there are some things where like it will take longer than 20 minutes. It may be 20 years, until you feel differently about that thing. But seeking out tools and being willing to hear it differently and then share it differently with somebody. And sometimes like you might try on if I was feeling forgiveness about this. If I'd fully forgiven this person, what would I say? Or how would I show up? Right? Because so often we're just still in it. And that's how I know, ah, what is running you in this? Like when I'm working with somebody and they're like, I think it's this, and I'm tiptoeing around this podcast title or like this. And I'm like, nice. Nice. Okay. I want you to change your state. Start jumping up and down, get your blood flowing a little bit and tell me again when you're out of breath, because that's actually what it really is. And the best stories are so clear you know what the moral of the story is. The moral of recovery story is that we had to change. Yeah. Everything. Like they're all the same. And I was, we, I was in community this today on a call and the, our mentor, I'll say arts'cause she's, she mentors both of us said. Something to the effect that you can have everything that you've ever wanted, as long as you're willing to let the old parts of you go. You gotta let all that go. If you're trying, if you are really set on holding vision, holding space, holding energy for the woman that you are becoming, that comes along with a willingness to let the old, outdated, stale version of you go, you gotta let her go. Yes, thank you. And go bye now. I wanna speak to that for a second though, Dana, because I do think in the self-development space, if you tell an addict. Get into the state where you feel really good. They might have an idea about that. Yeah. That's why Yeah. Most, I'm like, most of the audience here is they're women who've invested a few, at least a few years in the recovery movement. So I do have to preface that with saying we don't mean get hired drunk to feel good. We don't mean that. Could you said one tool, but what's another tool that you recommend to your clients to like, get in state of feeling good. Yeah. Yeah. So exercise is always a great gateway. Exercise is great. I think that recording something and playing it back for yourself, awesome. By the way, it should be short, right? So playing around in the space of 30 seconds, 10 seconds a minute. No more than three minutes. I love that. I seem to really hear what is it I'm trying to say? What's the point or the principle behind this thing? And I think going back to, what we were just touching on earlier, become her capital, her like, da. And like for me, again, coming from the space of recovery, I'm not trying to become God no. Yes, I'm good on that. I'm, I've tried it I've tried it. I'm very bad at it. I'm not interested. But think also the speaking to the addict mind, it can very quickly, all of that sort of programming, we can turn it around just I was like but I'm being honest. You know what I mean? So just remember whatever sickness you have, we're all sick, like mentally, emotionally, spiritually. It's just that we're at different spaces in the journey where we can hear more and then turn around and help the next guy with that. And you know what, when you turn around, you hear things. That maybe are still coming for you or maybe you've already been to, but like this is where you start to see this huge spread of how we're all helping each other and there are no accidents in the universe. I say this a lot, single one, divine timing. Divine timing. Like it's all divinely orchestrated. Every single piece that you hear, that you're processing, that you're thinking about, and I feel like we can get stuck on questioning or and this one's really common, especially in the self-development space. Like I'm outgrowing my husband, right? This like whole idea. I feel again, are we really, or are we not watering our own grass there? Because we're like, oh, look at me. I'm doing my stuff and you're not. You know what I mean? Yep. It's yes. Wait a second. Is that. Do you have to do that? To have that? I don't think so. So this is where, coming back to another principle of recovery, which is two th own self be true. And so often we can make a commitment or say we're gonna do something and then we don't because we can be quitters. Not in a good way. I don't mean quitting alcohol, it's just too hard. I know I said I was gonna do, it's too much. It's not working for me anymore. I've changed. I'm all for personal transformation and change. And there are situations where yes, leaving is the right thing. And I think there can also be spaces where we might push that a lot and our culture is all for that 50 50 if your marriage makes it. Culturally. Yeah, I think it's less than that. I'm pretty sure it's less Kat. Well, and you know what though, I'm not Googling it, but I'm pretty sure a good statistic, Dana, for your audience, is that only 50% of the world drinks alcohol. What? Say that again. In capital letters, 50% of the world. So this is like we get so but everybody drinks and Yeah. You are becoming the average of, and by the way, if you had a problem with alcohol, of course everybody was drinking around you. I was having this conversation with someone about wearing helmets yesterday and she was like, in cowboy culture, like I just grew up, you never do it. And I'm like, yeah, until you see something go down. I'm like, I always wear a helmet. Pretty much always real exception if I didn't get a helmet on because you know what could happen? Just like your seatbelt, don't you wear your seatbelt? You know what I mean? But it's like a hundred percent, hundred percent. You hear that perspective and then you start thinking worldwide about places where they've never seen a bottle of alcohol. Yeah, like in the, it's not a part of what they do Africa or whatever. And you start thinking about the percentage of the population in those places and spaces and that we are really skewed to think that people have access to clean water that you could, right. Write a book, have a zoom and a computer, and have a problem with alcohol.'cause like alcohol, how about water, right? Yeah. Yeah. So just to get bite sized and have humility about our problems as we're processing them. I love that so much. I want that to, I'm just gonna let that ruminate for just a moment. I have a question for you about, and this is something that I've been negotiating in my own life, is you told this beautiful story about. This young woman who you said I was on fire. Right? And it's, to me, it sounds like you're brave, you're bold, you're creative, you've got the bus, you've got 10 different jobs, you're driving the art car and also tr still trying to maintain like a nice girl status. I think that's a separate question, but my question is, when I got sober, for some reason I thought I had to. Recreate myself and all of myself. And that's, I think what I did buy into is I had to let all of the old me go. And what happened in my case was that my, I neutralized my biggest gifts. Like I wasn't as brave and I wasn't as bold, and I was more timid and trying to be nice and good, a good girl, because to make up for all the shit that I'd done, and I'm recently exploding out of that. Oh, that's an old idea, and I'm ready to have it removed so that I can step into my gift. So I know we don't know each other well, but it seems like you were able to transfer your unique talents, gifts, and what makes you spicy and special over, from your pre sober version of you into your transformed and recovered and loving your dang life. Can you talk a little bit about making that leap and what you decided to take with you and what you had to relearn? How about all the stories people aren't telling? Ooh. Tell me the thing you don't want to tell me. Yeah. Tell me the thing that didn't make your list of all the things you wanted to tell me. Tell me the thing that you can't see'cause that's your shadow. So even though I felt like I was on fire, I was casting some big shadows. So as I started coming back around to people who had been so good to me, given me jobs, given me places to live, all of these things, and I started making what I refer to as a blanket amends. A blanket amends is, Hey, when I knew you, I was deep in the throes of drinking and drugging. And if I did anything to harm you, I wanna take responsibility for it and let me know what I can do to make it right now.'cause I'm now living a life of recovery. And a part of that is owning my behavior from the past. Yeah, that's, we call that the generic event, blanket amens. I remember this one woman, she didn't know the whole story'cause it would've caused more harm if she knew. Yeah, I remember what she said to me, she said, she grabbed my arm and she was like, thank you so much for saying that Kat, because you were so weird. Oh no, right size. So you can imagine again, my perception of what I thought I was doing and then what I was actually doing. I remember another time calling my river guiding boss and saying, I wanna come back next summer, this and that. And he was like, hold the phone cat. Hold on. And I remember I was at a payphone in Miami about to fly to Europe. Okay, this is when I'm calling him, right? And I kind of had a one-way ticket and was like, am I coming back for my job? I want to, I wanna work. And he was like, hold the phone. He comes back, he's I just talked to the head of the boat barn and he says, you can have your job back if you show up. Right size. I thought I was showing up like, but clearly there were gaps, yeah. And I was like, well, that one day I got a flat tire. And he is it's not one day when you look at your summer track record. So just like beginning to understand, there were things that I did shut down and that I did have to let go of in sobriety. So that funny art car I was telling you about was kind of like a, like I would get into weird states doing stuff with it and it was sort of this like never ending thing that, yeah. Brought a lot of people joy and good stuff, but also was like, I was like, you're always in an art gallery opening when you drive around in an art car. You know what I mean? There was no anonymity per se. There was none of that. And that car. Broke down, driving on Teton Pass where I later met my husband two years later. Right. And when that car broke down, it was$5,000 to fix it. I knew, I was like, part of my transformation is stepping into the next step, which is to own a truck that I could tow my horse with. Right. And my horse. Also a big story in the beginning of my recovery, taking ownership of owning this horse that I had been caretaking for and like really having something of my own that filled me up and gives me a really deep spiritual connection. So I feel I was on fire, I had a radio show. I got up and told a dirty joke at a bar and a guy came up and was like. On a microphone. He was like, we're starting this radio show and you should be on it. But like the things I was doing with those folks, I was a paragliding pilot and like we would sit around waiting for the wind, to be right. And while you're sitting around waiting, often you're engaging in a lot of drinking and using. And I had to give my wing back because I just realized like that particular high is so high for me that to come down from that and the community that is doing that kind of like high risk adrenaline is not part of this next chapter in my recovery in sobriety. And it's not that I couldn't see myself flying again one day. I love flying. Like I'm all for it. We ended up in Turks and Caicos on this like beach where it's like the best wind kiting in the world. And I'm like right there like telling my kids about it and what they're doing with the winds and all these different things. But there's also a part of me that's like. Not right now. And so starting to understand that like different gifts are gonna manifest and you'll be ready for them at different chapters in your recovery. And there will be some that maybe you love them so much, but you've got to learn to shut them down. So and know when enough is enough. This is a really important recovery principle that many of us struggle with. We don't get the thing of everything in moderation. Even moderation. That's what we're in recovery. Because for us it's all or nothing. And when we have nothing, we actually get it all. Like what a pair looks. I just had a somatic response. I'm like, oh, that's it. When we have nothing, we get it all can. Can you say, oh my gosh, I have so many questions, but can you say a little bit more about what you mean there? When we have nothing, we get it all. There are so many jokes about humility. I don't know if you're, I love jokes. If you don't know me, bring it. Okay. There's this one where these monks are like trying to achieve enlightenment. Enlightenment being that they want for nothing and they are nothing, right? And so the guy is cleaning the janitor is like sweeping the monks and he's on the floor underneath their feet, right? And one of the monks turns to the other and says, look, who thinks he's nothing? And like you're completely missing it. Here you are doing this. You know what I mean? And this guy is under your feet doing everything right? Like just this, like the paradox of what we think is nothing is actually everything. You don't have someone cooking. You are not gonna have food. You know what I mean? Like we get really hung up on and can often forget to keep the main thing, especially when it comes to taking care of our energy, right, is that we have this whole, you can have it all. You can have it all. You can have it all become her with the capital H. And it's actually what if you're becoming her like little her, like your seven or 8-year-old self who's always been true, who someone told you was nothing, because that's everything you know? So starting to like really get right sized and honest about your desires and what you think is something, and then having complete peace with nothing, right? I started a group in Chicago called Horses for the Horseless because I recognized when we would ride our horses down the Des Plaines River Trail, people would come up, they would put their hands on our horses and they would be like, I have never been this close to a horse. Yeah. And I realized it was a public service that like 1% of Americans own a horse. It's like I have a responsibility to share horses with others and to provide deeper opportunity for connection, because majority of people are horseless. And if they feel that calling, how can you give them something from nothing? Doesn't mean everybody is meant to have that something. Right. But I think like really understanding that spectrum of nothingness and embracing it, like this is shadow work. This is the ultimate paradox. Right. Yeah. So please say more. You said you were casting a big shadow, and I'm curious if you could tell us more about what that meant. I alluded to a lot of my jobs I thought I was showing up for, but maybe I wasn't. I remember getting back around to looking at my credit cards and being like, oh, I haven't paid these off in a long time. Oh, why do they keep calling me? And now I understand, like they charge a percentage on my, my, and then they get shut down, so just the unmanageability, I didn't really understand what I was or wasn't responsible for, I, I thought well, if I've got this, then I've got that, and there were, so, there was so much smoke is what I would say coming in that my ass was on fire. You know what I mean? Yeah. So, even though I was on fire, like that's not to say I was all good, y'all. You know what I mean? Just to really own that. Sometimes that person who is so on fire might be over functioning in the dark. Like whatever they have going on at home, they're drinking too much. Maybe they're doing something on the computer they shouldn't be doing. Maybe they're overshopping, whatever it is, right? The escapism, like that addiction stuff for us, there's something you don't wanna talk about. And this is one of my favorite things, interviewing people. I'll be like, is there something you don't want to talk about? Any, anything off limits today? I'm an open book. Right. Until you ask them the thing. Until you get to that thing. So learning. And I think the other thing that's really helpful for me, and this is something I was thinking about saying earlier, so I wanna make sure I say it, but I had a gal on my show, Jackie Woodside, who's incredible, and she talked about how our negative memories go into our long term memory, cash. So they keep coming up. That dark thing, you keep processing that happened, that shouldn't have happened to you, and it happened, right? And you keep processing it, you keep reliving it and you keep thinking about, and then you're worried about how to keep your own kids safe and all this stuff. Right. Well, what about good memories? Yeah. Unfortunately, good memories get stored in our short term cash, but you know how we can make them last, how we can move them over, holding them in our hearts for 10 to 15 seconds. What. That's it. And we don't do that, do we? We spend a lot embodying the energy of the, embodying the energy of the good feeling. Positive moments. Good one. So I'm just thinking about, can I, can we do one together? Because there, there was something I saw on your social media that I wanna both to keep in our hearts forever. Okay. And it was your, maybe your dau, you have a daughter, right? Your daughter. And she was standing on a donkey and she looked like she was just embodying joy with a capital motherfucking J. And I was like, that's it. That is it. So c can we do we, you gonna do yours? I'm gonna bring my daughters in. Have I told you that my mom has donkeys and horses? Oh my gosh. Bring up too. But let's do it. Okay, so let's just, in. Listener, bring a memory that you want to keep close in your long-term memory. That feels so good, and we'll just hold it there in the heart. Breathe out. Letting that hard space just expand. Feeling how good it felt to be in that space, to witness that miracle to see the light. One more breath in. Maybe you're feeling your heart to say, yes, thank you, and then out and that's it, right? It's in there, it's stored. Isn't that good? And also, yes, like then repeat. Continue. Exactly. Do this every day. At the end of the day, you can do this throughout the day when something rattles you to get you back to this place of, when was the last time something really good happened? When was the last time I felt really deep joy, right? And then I think the beauty of it is like starting to tune your frequency and vision cast, what that's gonna be like in the future. What will it feel like on that TEDx stage? Delivering beautifully these 10 minutes, right? Like you can start to put it out there, right? Yeah. What's it gonna feel like when I get the call from Oprah to be on her show? You go, man, it's already done. My girl, it's already done. I already, I sent the things and it is done. Okay, so. There's so much to, there's so much, many places we can go. I think I wanna go with this ener, this theme of energy, because you've mentioned it a few times, it's a part of the work that I do to, can you speak into the importance of our energy in creating more of what we would love for our life? Right? So not necessarily becoming someone that we're not already, but using this state generator and the capacity of our own nervous system and frequency and energy to, you use the word vision cast, so please tell us what that means, what it looks like, and how you use, how you have used that in your own personal experience to create. The life that you have right now? Okay. Another speaker I wanna share with you who is on my Speak Truth to Live Summit, which is still available. The adventure. Yeah. It's so good too slash speak truth. You can check it out. Her name is Aina Spirit Walker. Yes. We talk about her name and how she got it so you can go hear the whole thing. But something she said that was really profound, she said The vibration of authenticity is 400 times greater than the vibration of love. Wow. So when people are saying like love, all it is love. All you need is love. I'm all for it. Love the song. And if you're not authentically feeling that love and you walk in saying All you need is love, your authenticity is gonna speak so much stronger. So I'm gonna bring a friend in here. I'm bringing a little white horse model. Okay. Hey buddy, I see you. I see you buddy. There's actually a model horse of Snowman, the$80 Champion, which is a great book. True story, no man champion. But anyways, the point is, think about a horse. You step up to a horse and let's think about our ancestors who partnered with horses 5,000 years ago, 12,000 years ago with dogs, 18,000 years ago with cats. Okay? They don't care how much you love them, they do, but it's the deep authenticity of how you show it. That's gonna matter. And a big difference between this guy who is a prey animal and us, is that we're predators. So our eyes are right here, right? So we're like vision casting going after the thing. If I go here, it's gonna move them there and we're gonna get it. You know what I mean? The horse is like. How do we all stay alive? Like it's in the grass, and so when you think about the miracle of us partnering with a prey animal that's bigger than us, you start to really understand what it means to work with your energy. Because when you walk up to a horse and you're like, I wanna touch it, I wanna lead it. I don't know how to work with it. It feels your fear. Yeah, it does. And depending on the horse, right? We've got the older, wiser, let's take the authentic donkey since your mom has a donkey, right? Yeah. They're like, oh my child, I've seen many of you afraid of me. Come on over. I don't. I'll teach you, yeah. And then you might have another one who, energetically, we talk about being out hors is not a good match for you authentically, no matter how much you love it. I love this horse. I'm made for this horse. It's the thing, I've found it on Pinterest. It's like the things I have heard and seen working in the horse training space where you're like, you are not a good match for that horse. Like you do not have the experience energetically to work with a horse that green who's woo. This horse needs this trainer. Yeah, right. There's a match. Human needs this source, right? Like we co-regulate and ground each other's energy all the time. And so I think folks are coming into recovery and they're like. Who am I supposed to work with? How do I do this? Remembering that it's this energetic match that happens and the one you might be most attracted to might be real shiny. Like the really excited horse might or might not be right for you right now. Right? Yeah. Because what you might need right now is you might be real spinny. Like when I came in, I was really on fire. And you know what? The first person I asked to work with me, she was asking me for painkillers. Oh, I had some. You know what I mean? I love it. Sober up a horse thief and you got a sober horse thief. But I thought, yes, you do wasn't right. Yeah. So this is where like learning to listen to your intuition, your authenticity, and something Dolly Parton says as she succeeded in her industry, she said, I owe all my success to good old fashioned horse sense. To just knowing what you know, what, real basic, you've got this horse spinning like this and they're like, this horse is very calm, perfect for your child. And you're like, oh no, I don't think so. I dunno. That's so interesting. So now you got me thinking about we, whenever we go on here or on vacation the trainer or the whomever is in charge of matching my family with their horse. You can watch them pick up the energy of the human and then say, you're going here and you're gonna be here, and you're gonna go here. Or, how brave are you? Yep. You can have that one. Yeah. And then my mom does the same thing. So she has this whole field of horses. She knows each of my daughters are very different and she's you're going on this one, you're going on this one and you're going on this one. And so there's an energetic match. I'm wondering about the connection. We've mentioned, God, we've mentioned. The power. We've mentioned that we're not God, can you speak into the role that having access to a power greater than you has played not only in your recovery, but in this expansive remembering of who you are, what you love, where you live, working with horses, staying with your husband, like that resonates so much with me. Can, let's talk about God for a minute because whatever you have to say on how all that is connected, that three letter word God, Ooh. Right. Well, what I love some of the A acronyms, GOD group of drunks, good orderly direction. I think for me, early on I believed in something. I was comfortable with the power of the universe. I was comfortable with the forces of nature. I was comfortable with maybe a creator, but not really God per se, not God in the christian sense or any? Anything like that? I liked like deities and mythology. I liked stories about God's plural, but I felt really uncomfortable about Jesus. Just to put it out there. I wasn't so sure about that. The whole Jesus take the wheel thing wasn't so sure. Very confusing. Very confusing. And I remember people saying, you can make your higher power anything. You can make it the doorknob, but be careful.'cause it may turn on you. Right. Ooh, I haven't heard that one. And I love it. I gotta come outta your recovery. It sounds like you'll have some zingers. I need those. Laura that came from, lemme tell you. Love it. Love it. It might turn on you. I think like for me, starting to recognize and this comes up working with horses a lot, where am I worshiping horses? Like they are my higher power. No, but they are bigger than me. And I do think that God speaks through them for me the same way. I think he speaks through all of our animals, right? Yeah. And our children and our partners and our groups and our tribes and like through this conversation and this audience. And it took a while. And not to get too deep into the story, but for me I was sober going into my second year. It was right before Christmas. And every day I would meditate on a sane and sound sex ideal for my life. But also ask, is there anything more you want me to know or do today? And in that like quiet space that I would make five to 20 minutes for every morning I heard get to know Jesus. And I was like, oh, really? Are you kidding me? Right. Are you kidding? Can you say that again please? Yeah. Yeah. We had a little bit of a back and forth about that, but then ultimately I was like, all right, well I've promised to be open-minded and willing. And so it was a great time to kind of study baby Jesus, who I'd never thought about quite like as a thing. I thought about, teachings of Jesus year about, and all of that. Like fine the parables, sermon on the Mount I had a little bit of familiarity with that. But I'd never really looked at like the story of baby Jesus speaking of the donkey. You know what I mean? And yes, a manger and being in a barn and speaking of that nothingness, right? And this like miracle of a story of a teacher coming through and sharing. And so I started studying that and lo and behold, I met my husband a couple months later who's a very devout Christian. And I had that not happened in that order, I don't think we would've been ready for each other and able to heal and become whole in all the places where we were broken. Because let me just say, in my drinking and using, I had some very unsound and insane. Sexual behaviors. Hello? Same. The same. Same. And I think just to take this a little further, and I know my husband's okay with me sharing this story, but like a part of our dating relationship, he was still living in Chicago. I was living in Teton Valley. I owned this fitness club. And so we were getting to know each other remotely. And I continued with that connection with God and so did he. And through that prayer and meditation I asked God, what's your vision for me with my partner with sex? Because he's gonna come out here and I'm excited, like I'm feeling it. And what I got was wait. And I was like, what? Okay. Okay. Like we could wait one more trip. Okay. Wait for what Marriage. Whoa. And I was like, what? This is weird. And sure enough, we did, because when I called my husband and I told him, I was like, this is really weird, but like in my prayer meditation, this came through and how do you feel about that? He was like, I'm so glad you said that, because I feel the same way. I've been through a marriage, I've been through a divorce, I have been through his own brokenness, which is his story, and recovered from that. And I agree. I want something new and different and we are. Made for each other in this way. So like you can't make up stories like that. And if you knew me when, like my uncle always teases me. He is like, when I was living in Chicago, everybody thinks you're this like suburban horse wife with a couple kids who drives a red truck. But I know who you really are, and the thing is, we are all of it. That's who we were. I'm not that person using anymore, right? But that doesn't mean that it isn't true that if someone came up to me and they were like, Hey, you did something really illegal in the past and you need to take responsibility for it. And God willing, there isn't another one out there. But if there is, I'm ready and willing to take responsibility for it because that is the life of recovery. I love that so much. I normally joke and say, because people will say oh, God willing, I'll be sober to X number of years next month. And I'm like, pretty sure God's willing. But in your case, like I'm available to see what God's wanna do. And it just speaks so powerfully to these practices, the spiritual access practices of prayer and meditation, where in, in my practice, it's making space for nothing. Right. It's removing everything from the space. Yeah. That doesn't mean my mind doesn't stop. Right. That's, I think meditation gets a bad, needs a new marketing team because it doesn't mean that we stop thinking that's what the mind is designed to do. It means that we make ourselves available for the direction and the assignment. Yes. And so that's what I ask each morning, what's my assignment today? I know what the plans are. Here you go. Tell me my assignment here. And then we get downloads like you are clearly being prepared for the vision of the next version of your experience, which sounds like it was a really hot meeting on the mountains. I'm so sorry we don't have time to talk about it next time. Next time. I think if I could offer one last thing, and I'm guessing this isn't new to most people, but the best things usually aren't new. We just need to keep hearing them again and again. Meditation is listening. Prayer is speaking or sharing, right? God, I'm struggling with this story, right? Or God, I'm delighted in this story. Right? But then we don't often take the time to listen and receive the magic available in that connection. We run from that. We don't wanna hear it, right? Don't miss the moment to listen. Like truly listen. To how incredible you are, and you are a walking, talking miracle. Like the fact that you're here and alive and listening right now. Let's not overlook that. No, just that miracle would be enough. And yet there's more for us here. The thing I like to joke about is, hey, I have a direct line to the, I have a direct line, I don't care what you call it. I have a, I can pick up the phone in prayer and say all the things, and then if I am willing enough to be still and listen and say, I'm available for the assignment, the direction is coming. Yeah, it's coming. So. My friends, we have a superpower. I think we're not using enough, and this might be a call forward to expand your practice in prayer, expand your practice in meditation, and then we get these directions that may not make sense. Mine haven't made sense most of the time, but are spot on using what you called earlier, divine timing. Yeah. I also love the phrase a mentor of mine uses called divine Choreography. So Kat, I would love to talk to you for hours and hours. In fact, I would love to invite you back to be an expert guest for how women in recovery can benefit from equine connection. Yeah. Because I'm sure you can talk a, tell a whole story about what that looks like. So if you're open to that, check your inbox for the next invitation. But let's tie all this together. What's the most important thing to you right now in your next 24 hours? My next 24 hours barrel club. Woo. Okay. Tell us what that is. Well. Barrel Club is it's where you run horses around barrels for barrel racing. And I committed with my children to go to Barrel Club every Tuesday. And so it's like my daughters have been asking me to get on their horses and start riding for three hours and barrel clubs still not for another hour, just to be clear. But there's a lot that goes into co-regulating myself with my children, with the horses, with the whole group of whoever shows up there that night with whatever God puts into the weather. And I think. I know we touched on God and a lot of people can get really freaked out and some of the things I might have said might have been a little bit extreme. So the most important thing is just remembering you're not God and that you believe in something other than yourself as God. Right. And it could just be the good orderly direction of others. Right. So for me, working in a group like Barrel Club, I see God, I witness God. It is a spiritual experience showing up, and I have my work that I do mentally, emotionally, physically, and spiritually to prepare and then show up. The entire universe symbolized by a barrel club that you get to experience and connect to and have light. Just be a vessel for light with your kids and the animals and the community and the weather and all the universe in 24 hours. Whoa. Okay. I'm obsessed with you, Kat. Please tell my listeners who, where we can find you, how we can work with you and your favorite place to hang out online. Oh, favorite place to hang out online. Oh, that's interesting. Obviously I love Kathy Heller's world, right? And abundance, mastery and abundant ever after. So if you're looking for someone who's gonna go deeper, that's probably my favorite online space at the moment. Although you can't beat Zoom. Thank God for Zoom. Actually, if I had to pick one'cause love Kathy, but without Zoom. Wouldn't have or wouldn't have you in this moment right here. So let's call it Zoom for an online space. You can find me at my website, the adventure paradox.com. If you wanna check out that summit I was talking about, I had 21 speakers there for 27 bucks. You can get lifetime access to all of them. You can also get it for free, but then it's like a day drip and disappears, whatever. But that's the adventure paradox.com/speak truth. And my offer right now is Healing Conversations, which is a 90 minute deep dive with me. If you buy a package, you get Voxer days, and I love helping people access their voice to live their best life. So that's what I'm up to right now. There will be some adventure retreats coming. My VIP clients come out and hang out with me in Jackson Hole. And a lot of magic here in the fall. It's a sacred time. So, or summer, if you're coming out sooner than that, look me up. I would love to, to meet you and greet you here in real space. I already put where you are in on my bucket list. Yes. And that my bucket list tends to happen pretty fast. So see a few awake, KA, come on out, girlfriend. Hats off. We're here. You're amazing. I'm going to drop all of that information in the show notes and those healing conversations sounds so powerful and to, especially for women in recovery, to have space to give voice to the voice that's inside of you and create the kind of healing I know that you are capable of facilitating. So, ooh, all of that plus your podcast, the Adventure paradox is fine. So fun. I love you. Okay. I'm so grateful for you open your heart and hear this from mine. I love you. I'm so super proud of you, and I'm so grateful that you have created a life beyond your wildest dreams, which makes a path for the rest of us to shine bright. Amen. Thanks for being part of it. From one miracle to another. Yes, girl. Yes. Oh, whoa. Did you just feel what I felt? There is a whole lot of that and more to help you create miracles in your life. On upcoming episodes of the Girls Who Recover a podcast now ranked in the top 5% of podcasts globally. If you've built a strong recovery foundation and you're feeling ready to break through life's glass ceilings, let's make it happen together. In the show notes, you'll find a link to book a free one-on-one conversation with me and in that conversation. We'll get clear on what next level success even looks like for your life. We'll create some powerfully aligned goals and a plan. We're gonna talk about the big thing holding you back, and you will walk away with a roadmap for how to create a life you are obsessed with. Because hear this from me, my friend. You deserve. Success and freedom and the full identity of a woman who knows what she's capable of and who she is. And I wanna help you get there. So book your free call in the notes. And if you love this episode, follow us five stars, write a review, share it with your best friend, share it with your mom. And in case you haven't heard it today, I love you. I'm so proud of you, and I believe in your ability to create a gorgeous life. You are madly in love with starting. Right now and I'll see you in the next episode, muah!.