EP46: The Shameless Woman Panel: A Conversation on Releasing Shame, Remembering Your Worth and Building an Extraordinary Life

So you've built a strong recovery foundation and now you’re ready to break through life’s glass ceilings and create next-level success that feels as good as it looks?  I can help you get there. Book your conversation here.

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Your shame just might be killing you, and it’s past time to step into your unapologetic role as a Shameless Woman. The Shameless Woman Panel is a raw, liberating conversation about shedding the shame that’s been running the show — and reclaiming your power, your body, your truth, and your divine belonging. Join me and this powerhouse panel — Tracy Hill, Kena Siu, Casey Taton, and Jen Chambers — as we talk about the ways shame sneaks into our lives, from our bodies and careers to our faith and relationships, and what it really takes to finally release it.

You’ll hear stories of healing, courage, and reclamation that remind you your past isn’t your identity — it’s the foundation for freedom. We talk about the difference between guilt + shame, how to release generational shame, and the spiritual and embodied practices that bring us back home to worth, pleasure, and truth. This conversation will remind you: you are love, you are belonging, you are connection. Tune in if you’re ready to release shame, remember your worth, and live an extraordinary life.

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Jen Chambers is a writer, publisher, and the host of the Beyond The Margins with Jen Chambers and Same Crime, Different Time Podcasts. She’s a TEDx organizer, a graduate of the Iowa Summer Writing Program, and is dedicated to helping others share their stories. Website / Substack

Tracy Hill is the creator of A Beautiful Fix, a podcast and movement helping women stop chasing external answers and start trusting the wisdom within—while reconnecting with the wonder and awe that makes life feel beautiful again. She’s also a certified Human Design guide, retreat host and self-love advocate, guiding women to feel high on life, one beautiful fix at a time. Start your journey back to you—get your free Human Design chart here.

Kena Siu is the Founder of Midlife Butterfly and host of the Midlife Butterfly podcast. She helps women move through life’s biggest transitions—divorce, loss, reinvention, and awakening—guiding them to come home to themselves, reconnect with their soul & body, and create lives of freedom, love and joy. 

Website / IG / The Midlife Butterfly Guide: 5 Practices for the Woman Going Through Life Transitions & Need to Heal Herself and Reclaim Her Power.

Casey Taton is the host of the Inner Spark Podcast and Founder of Little Moments Big Dreams Celebrations, an Organization that brings smiles to kids in the hospital. IG / Facebook /

Hey gorgeous.

I love you.

I'm so proud of you.

And I believe in your ability to create a life you absolutely love.

Transcript

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Welcome to the Girls Who Recover podcast with Dana Hunter Fradella, where incredible women just like you, go to transform life's biggest setbacks into your most powerful comebacks so that you can live a life you. Love. I'm your host, Dana Hunter Fradellla, transformational coach and founder of Girls Who Recover, and my mission is to pull back the curtain on our mistakes, failures, shame and personal disasters, and light the way for how to use those to create your biggest and most gorgeous comebacks. Follow the show now. Grab your iced coffee and turn up the volume for girls who recover. Let's light it up. Hello, gorgeous. I am so grateful that you're joining us for this powerhouse conversation about the shameless woman because shame is something that every single one of us, as women knows intimately and also one of the hardest things to speak about. So I'm offering so much love and appreciation for our gorgeous panelists who are here today to lead us in conversation around the dream of the shameless woman. And before we start, I want to do a couple of things so that we can settle into like, what is, what do we mean by shame and what does shame actually mean? And I wanna bring in the energy and spirit of shame researcher and ultimate goddess Brene Brown. And she has an incredible episode on shame and accountability, and I will link that in the show notes. But pulling from some of the core concepts that Brene teaches about shame, I wanna speak to a couple of parts of it. So let's give shame a definition, shall we? And panelists, I will put this in the chat just so you, we are having a shared working definition of what are we actually talking about when we talk about shame? So this is straight from Brene Brown, and she says that shame is the intensely painful feeling or experience of believing that we are flawed. And therefore unworthy of love, belonging, and connection. So that has a lot of energy behind it. So I'm gonna take a breath with you and we're gonna read it again. Shame is the intensely painful feeling or experience of believing that we are flawed and therefore unworthy of love, belonging, and disconnection, and con and connection. And I wanna come outta my seat and do an Onfi dance around that. Because the mission of girls who recover is to, at the core of it, help women transform their MA biggest setbacks into their most gorgeous comebacks. And shame is one of the heaviest, most powerful weapons that gets in the way of doing that. So I feel so called forward to have this conversation about shame. And we will continue to talk about shame until the cows come home, or until every woman in the world can walk around remembering that she is worthy of love, she is the belonging and she is connection. We're not just worthy of those things. We are those things. And so oftentimes two, these two words get mixed up. So I wanna clarify the difference between guilt and shame. If you're a part of the recovery community, you're probably familiar with the phrase guilt, shame, and remorse, which is what we all walk in with when we are approaching the transformation of setback to comeback, but to differentiate guilt and shame. Shame is, I am bad and guilt is I did something bad. And so I wanna bring it to the elementary school level. I have three daughters, you probably know this one's five, one's eight, and one's 10. And they all have these beautiful, gorgeous, expansive imaginations. My second daughter has the biggest imagination, so sometimes what comes out of her mouth is very imaginative. And we've had this beautiful conversation in the car where I'll say, Audrey, I'm not sure that's true. Is that true? And she's like, yeah, it's true. And then my older daughter, who's conscious mind is developed and she's got a sassy sense of self and she says, Audrey, you're a liar. And I'm like, whoa, hold on. Hold on one second because you are or I am, implies that you are bad or you are unworthy or you are disconnected. So I've gotten up on the box and said like, we got to be mindful of what comes after the great I am. But we paused that conversation and I said, no, no, no, no, no, we're not. So Audrey don't receive that. Instead, Audrey is a beautiful child of the infinite who told a lie. You see the difference? It's not who she is, it's a behavior that she exhibited it. So I wanna to differentiate that shame is I am bad. It's that feeling of. It's hot for you, right? Hot. It sort of washes over you. I feel it in my chest and my stomach and it's like, oh, I am. And it's an attachment to who you are. And guilt is, I am a beautiful child of the infinite and I did this thing that doesn't align with who I am. And I think we get those confused. So I wanna set the record straight. Thank you Brene, for helping with that because we are here to have the conversation about who we actually are and step into our assignment to be the shameless woman. So two things she mentions, and then I'm gonna turn it over and introduce our panelists is number one, we all have shame. Every single person breathing. In my opinion, I think women have more of it. That may be because I work with a lot of women and I get to hear about it all the time. Uh, if you're a man listening, let us know. Shame is something everybody has. And the second thing is ain't nobody like to talk about it. Nobody likes to talk about shame. So I want to commend two things. One is my, our guests for being here, and two is you for listening because shame says, how dare you go there. Don't you dare talk about us. Don't you doubt, dare tell the truth. Don't you dare shine the light. Then you might remember that we're actually all connected, that we're all the same in many ways, and that we are all on assignment, which is to love and experience both compassion and empathy for each other. Okay, so we got it. We got the definition of shame. We've got the difference between. I am bad and I did something bad. And the last thing I wanna say, because this might be one of the most important things that you hear, is how we experience shame. And guilt often comes down to the way that we talk to each ourselves, the way that we talk to ourselves, and the way that we talk to each other. But since we talk to ourselves the most, I wanna bring it back to we are in, I'm gonna pick up my wand. Your wand, meaning your agency, your awareness, your responsibility for you, and your feelings and your emotions, and your experience of life in the world. And so it's great news that it comes down to the way that we talk to ourselves, because guess who can change that? You got it? Okay. So without further ado. I am, it is my great pleasure to introduce our, our shameless woman panelists, who a, also happen to be some of my closest and dearest friends. We have shared a mastermind together for over a year. All of these women are incredible in their own right. Mm-hmm. We all have podcasts, which is how we met. So, and then we all have our own unique business in the world. All of us are here to elevate the consciousness of women everywhere and some of us in different ways. So I'm going to transition to the panelists and I'll introduce each of you with a sentence, bio, and then ask you an intro question. You'll have about two minutes, and then we'll swap. Sounds good. Beautiful. Okay. So I've asked each of the panelists to share a personal story about how shame has shown up in their lives, what it kept them from, and then what it shifted when they began, when they began to name it. And so I would love to start with, the CEO and founder of a beautiful Fix, my gorgeous friend Tracy Hill. And Tracy Hill is the creator of a Beautiful Fix, which is a podcast and a movement helping women stop chasing external answers and start trusting the wisdom within, while reconnecting with the wonder and awe that makes life feel beautiful again. And she's a certified human design guide. A retreat host, yes. And a self-love advocate guiding women to feel high on life. You know, I love that one. Beautiful fix at a time. So Tracy, I will turn it over to you. Can you share a little bit about how shame has shown up in your life, what it's kept you from and how it's shifted when you started to name it? Absolutely. So, Dana, it's interesting because when you asked me to be on a panel about shame, I was like, I'm in because it's Dana. And I knew the, the amazing women that would be on this panel with me. But to be honest, I thought shame's not really my thing. Like I don't have a relationship with shame. I don't really, I don't now guilt lives with me like that is my girl guilt is always here. And I was like, I. But then I started thinking about it and I watched Brene Brown's talk,'cause I love her. I read a chapter and um, this book that I have women who run with wolves all about shame. And I thought, oh my gosh, I absolutely have shame. For some reason I don't really associate myself with it. That's not something I would immediately go to. But when I started thinking back on my life, I realized I've always had shame. I've always wanted to be the. Perfect girl, you know, daddy's little girl and doing the right things. And it kept me really on the straight and arrow because I never wanted to do anything wrong. I think the first moment where I really, truly experienced shame was I developed before some of my friends. I was stick thin, very, very thin, but I developed a chest. And I swam every single day and I was, I don't know how old I was, but 10, 11, something like that. But I hopped out of the pool. We had a public pool right next door to me, and I hopped outta the pool and one of the guys screamed, Tracy Brown, that's my maiden name. Tracy Browns, got tennis balls. And I was so embarrassed. I was so embarrassed. Everyone turned and looked at me. I hated having people, you know, notice me. And from that moment I started to slouch. I wore a t-shirt to the pool. From that day on, I never wore just a, a bathing suit again. And I carry that with me. And so, um, my life has kind of been, that's kind of been my relationship with shame. I'm very. Getting in trouble in school, I would feel intense shame. If my parents, if I did something wrong, I felt shame. But it's followed me. And even in my adult years, I realized, you know, I left my career in 2020 and I had no business doing it. It was not a, it wasn't something that, it was like, oh, I planned it out. I just kinda left. I left my family hanging and I remember leaving feeling intense shame and knowing that I was gonna have to, I told my husband beforehand that I was obviously going to, to leave, but I hadn't told my children. And I remember the moment where we were gonna call my two sons that were in college. We called my two sons that were living at home in, and that moment where I was gonna tell them I felt immense shame over what I had done. But when I mentioned it to them. I was ready to start explaining myself and, you know, begging for their forgiveness. And instead, and I told this story to you before Dana, my oldest son smiled. Both of my older sons smiled and, and, and the boys that were in the room with me, and I remember my oldest saying, congratulations, mom. And so I think that's really, and I, I'm sure we're gonna get into this later, that is the thing with shame is, and BNE talks about this, it's secrecy. It's that everyone wants to belong, they wanna feel included. It's that keeping silent. But the moment you can speak it into existence, you know, it dissipates. So. Those are just some examples. The other one I'll share is I recently went skinny dipping, and I have never done that in my life, ever because of shame, shame of my body, shame of the idea of someone else seeing me. It was just something I never even wanted to do. But recently and my pool, my own pool, some friends mentioned that they had gone skinny dipping. And I thought, I've never done that in my life. And I thought, I'm going to do it. And I did it. Yes, it was midnight. Yes, there was no light outside except for the moonlight. But in that moment, I remember being in the pool thinking, why have I felt shame about doing something like this? Or just showing my body? Not that anyone could see it, you know, but it just, it made me think about why do we carry this shame? And I definitely agree that I think women take on way more shame than men. But, but I'll stop there. So that, that's my introduction to my life with shame. Thank you Tracy. And also check out that podcast episode on a Beautiful Fix about her first experience, skinny dipping.'cause it's so fun. It is so fun. And then the other thing I heard is the ways that shame shows up for us. So you mentioned in your childhood, you mentioned at school, you mentioned with your body, you mentioned with your family, you mentioned with your career. So it is so sneaky and it shows up in all the corners of life. So thank you Tracy. Absolutely. Next we will hear from the gorgeous, legendary CEO and founder of Midlife Butterfly. My friend Cana Ou and Cana is the founder of Midlife Butterfly and the host of the Midlife Butterfly podcast, and she helps women move through life's biggest transition. So listen up, midlifers. Going through transitions, divorce, loss, reinvention, and awakening, guiding them to come home to themselves, reconnect with their soul and body, and create lives of freedom, love, and joy. That is like a spiritual orgasm. Just reading out loud. Okay. Try to think your work in the world. Oh, I love us so much. Okay, so same, same question to you. If you will share with us what shame has looked like in your life and what you've done to shine the light on it. Yes, thank you. It also comes to the body as Tracy was sharing, before I was 13 years years old, I went to visit a friend. My parents were, I dunno, I went to see this friend. My parents were in the car. So I go and knock the door and his little brother open the, the door. And then somebody screamed, like, who is there? And he said, oh, it's a skinny, tall girl with glasses and braces. And that stood with me. I mean, and still is still there, right? So ends up, his brother was not there. I came back to the car and then I was f furious. I was like so mad. And my parents just like, what happened? So I told them and they just laugh about it.'cause you know, it was. I guess it was funny they didn't know else, like what to do or what to ask, but I didn't realize that stood with me, uh, until, uh, I don't know, probably a decade or something so many years later. And the consequences of that was that again, like hiding my body. And, um, like me, for example, I, when I turned 15, you know, in Mexico we have the quinceaneras and everything. At that time, like my chest was still, plain. I don't know when they grow and it was afterwards. But even like, I got the shame, you know, for my body, for my looks, that I will. Like in university, I was already, you know, having nice boobs and everything and my friends were like, where's something that you can show them? Like, you're so nice and sexy and stuff. But in my mind I was still probably like this skinny girl, you know? And that got rejected because that's how I took it. I took that comment as a rejection and that became my main wound. And because of that, of course has affected my life and going to, you know, big gatherings, I would be the one in the corner hiding or just for my business. It's took me like two years to do the first video. I was so afraid of it. And again, I was afraid of being seen. So the consequences just for and simple between quotes, comment of this little kid describing who I was, the effect they had in my life was like very. Yeah, it was really what is the word? Daunting. It was really there. So by working in my wound of rejection, that's how it's been, like the process of deeming and clearing up that shame. So I'm hearing a couple of similarities. One is it starts early, especially for women. I have that exact same experience. I remember when somebody said I had thunder thighs, and I was like, well, let me add 10 things to do to fix my thighs, because some random boy said thunder thighs. And that carried with me. And so I'm hearing that from you too. And you know it's nuanced because that person said, uh, to you, Tracy. And then the person who said it to me was to shame me. And it sounds like. Canna, yours was just someone observing something and you took it as something to shame yourself, something that you felt. So it's wrong, could be external and it co can be internal. And I also hear it showing up in the evolution of your business too. Your bliss canna calls a business bliss. And why can we please all do that? And now if you go check out, and I hope you will, midlife butterfly and kaya's Instagram, you're gonna see her. She's sexy all over the place and she's dancing and she's teaching women to be on their own pleasure and appreciate their own body. And so this is the power of what happens when we notice our shame, when we name it, and then when we do things that we'll talk about later in the, in the panel too. Unleash ourselves from it. That's gorgeous. Thank you, Kaya. Okay, next up is my, I want to call you my partner in crime. The biggest spark. The biggest spark in the game, Casey Taton. And she is, I'm just adding CEO. She's CEO and host of the Inner Spark Podcast and founder of Little Moments, big Dream Celebrations, which is an organization that brings smiles to kids in the hospital. And I hope that you'll at some point, Casey, talk about how you see shame showing up for your kiddos too, because I'm sure it's there. But for now, can you speak into your own experience of shame? Maybe tell us a story and how it's shown up, what it's kept you from, and if it's shifted at all when you started to name it. Thanks Dana. Yeah, so. Listening to the other beautiful ladies, I realized there's definitely a theme here of I had spinal meningitis when I was a baby, and I don't remember it. I was so young. However, my family continues to talk about it, and so I always felt the shame of I did something wrong or I was bad for having something that caused my family so much pain and yeah. Oh, sorry. It's big. And then as I got older, I, I was a competitive roller skater and we were, weight was a huge thing. We had to watch our, we wore the little dresses. And I was young when I started. I was like five when I started, and I went all the way into like high school or middle school, start skating all over the world. And we wore the little bitty dresses and weight was a huge thing. And I remember one of my coaches saying what is she eating? And my mom was like, I'm giving her a snack every day here. Like we, I would go straight from school to the skating rink to practice. We practice seven days a week. And it was just like, well, we're gonna have to change your snacks because you're getting a little bit bigger. Bigger as in like, I'm growing and I'm hitting puberty. Like, how can you change that? And I, yeah. And so I think I've always been conscious of my weight. As I got older, I was, I switched to, you know, soccer playing. I did things I always wanted to be daddy's little girl I was. Still am grown adult. Um, but I switched to sports that my brother was playing and, um, I wanted to oh, wow. You, you caught me off guard, Dana. Thanks. You know, I started playing soccer. I started playing golf. I was the runner, did all the things so I could connect with them. And also I tried, I think in school I tried super hard. My brother was just naturally smart and I was not. And so I think there was shame around like, why am I not the smart one? Why am I always the one that seems to be causing like all the problems? And then as I got older, as an adult I thought a rear condition and my life stopped. And then I had scars. And so until a few years ago I didn't talk about it. I was embarrassed to show my body. Um, I was embarrassed to show my scars and also to let my voice be heard and to let people know that it's okay to freaking have badass scars. And it doesn't matter what size we are, that we're all freaking amazing human beings, and there's so much light in all of us. That is gorgeous. That's so gorgeous, Casey. And I'm hearing some similarities with body image, and with what other people say about our bodies. Just so curious, which we then bring into our own internal monologue. I want to call it dialogue, but it's really not. It's me talking to me, you know? And then also the. I wanna call that the compound effect. So shame when we're little and then it compounds and then it compounds and then it compounds and it looks like as an adult. And we'll get there. Like what I really appreciate how we're going backwards and like talking about childhood shame and also wanna invite us. Deeper in the panel to talk about current shame. It's this shame is doing what she does. She's like, yeah, talk about what it used to be like when you're little. That's like super easy and no, no shame in the game, but like protect, uh, just to protect your your brain. We're gonna go to current shame. Okay, everybody. And on the listener side, I bet maybe you're thinking about childhood shame too, which is of course where it all begins. And then the question now is what, where are the blinders? Which shame, which blinders have shame put on me now that's in current day ex expression of my life. Thank you Casey. And Casey, you didn't mention this. I'm inviting you to at some point speak into it. About the work that you do now, but Casey is a huge light in the world. So with her podcast and her organization, she has used her walkthrough shame to create more life for the most vulnerable, lovely, gorgeous little people on the earth. So hopefully you get to speak to that Casey and definitely follow her. Follow her journey in the links, in the show notes. So next, we are transitioning to my favorite. I'm not gonna, I love everybody's podcasts here. I promise. I love all of you and I listen to you and you're all incredible. But the one that I wake up on Thursday and I'm like, same Crime, different Time is coming out. The founder and host of that is my good friend, Jen Chambers. And Jen Chambers is also a writer, publisher, and the host of Beyond the Margins, with Jen Chambers and Same Crime, different Time, both podcasts. She's also a TEDx organizer, a graduate of the Iowa Women Summer Writing Program. I don't know why I threw women in there. Tattoo, it's not women. Let me read it again. Graduate of the Iowa Summer Writing Program, and she's dedicated to helping others share their stories. Jen, same question. Tell us about shame, what it's kept you from, and how you have shined light on it in your life. I'm so excited to be here with you guys. It's every, every time we all meet together, it's my favorite day. And this is even better. It's so interesting to talk about shame. I feel like shame is my origin story. You know, shame is my I was introduced to shame, I guess, kind of at my very beginning because I had a brain injury and after my car accident that I got my brain injury in relearning how to be like everyone else was my number one goal. I always felt so ashamed because I was intrinsically not, there was no way, I didn't feel like I could bridge the gap to be like everyone else. And so every walk was, everything I did made me feel inadequate and not enough. Not because I think anyone else told me I was, but I took that on because I could see that I didn't match. And it was terrifying. It was so terrifying. So in a lot of ways a lot of the things that I have done has been to, to stop that shame from happening and working really, really hard all the time to make sure that nobody sees the, um, the man behind the mirror, all I think that it's served me well in a lot of ways, but I've kind of bent over backwards a lot to try and be what everyone else wants me to be. Rather than figure out what I want for myself. So that's been my work of the last 10 years probably trying to figure out how to listen to what I want and my, my own needs and my own the things, the places that I want to go. Uh, I really liked also that you guys were talking, I mean, I didn't, like it is the wrong word, but I think that we all have so much in common as women when we speak about shame in our bodies. Because one of my earliest memories after I came back from my brain injury and all that, I can, and it's funny'cause I hadn't thought about it for years, but hearing you guys talk about this completely, I, I was right back there. I was mostly recovered. I was out to dinner with my parents. I live in in Eugene, Oregon. So the University of Oregon is there and, we were having dinner in this restaurant on campus, and I get up and my parents are, have left, and a U of O football player comes up behind me and like grabs my butt. And I'm 16 years old and I was so, I didn't know what to do. I was just, I was, I mean, and this was many, many, many years ago, but I was just so ashamed of myself. Like, what did I do? I didn't invite that. I was just standing there waiting to go outside or something. I don't know. But, but that was my first introduction to that kind of shame about my body. And I think that so many women get so many unwanted comments, grabs advances all sorts of things. It's interesting how I've internalized that and I just felt so incredibly ashamed of myself at that time and that kind of. I didn't realize that it had stuck with me, but I, I've done a lot of things to cover myself up for that reason, metaphysically and physically, because I felt like it was wrong. So I think that's really interesting. And I've spoken to so many women who have experiences with not always men, but often, that have caused them to feel a lot of shame. And I, I, it's very sad, but it's interesting. And, and to me it's really great to recognize that it's not about maybe what happened to me, it's about how I'm processing that chain. You have just made the invitation for us to do what I think might be the most important thing, Jen. And it's to, to wake up, and I use a wand in my practice as a symbol for many things, but one is the, the awakening the awareness of, hey, that thing that that guy said to me or that woman said to me. I, I have an ex, an example that I've shared before about how I used to love math. I'd be obsessed with it, and I took all advanced math classes and I was on the accelerated track. And then when it came time to apply for ap, the, the female math teacher who was, she'd been teaching AP Calc forever. She looked at me and she's like, there's no way you would make it in this class. You're not good enough to be here. And so from that moment on, I ex I did a couple of things. One is I got that hot feeling of, of shame, I'm not good enough. I'm disconnected from not just my peers, but also my identity of who I believed I was and what was true for me. And then carried that through into almost adulthood until I woke up and realized I went to this really fancy college and I said, well, I guess I'll have to take remedial math classes. And I just, so when, uh, part of the work is waking up and realizing, so when I realized that I had just taken that woman's opinion and made it my identity, I thought, well, maybe I could release that. And then the universe knows what she's doing. So I ended up teaching fifth and sixth grade math for a short time, and which was so fun because my kiddos would come in and say, oh, I'm not good at math. I was like, up until today. And today we're changing that agreement. And let it be as simple as that. And repeating and repeating. So thank you, Jen, for the reminder that we get to start questioning what's real and what we agreed with and, and wondering without shame, like, oh, carried that around for like 20 years. Like, that's interesting. And so today could be the day to, to let that go, to change the agreement and to decide, you said something else that was really beautiful. What I actually want and who I actually am to this deep authenticity of the ask that your soul is making about, that shows up in evidence of doing things that you love. Thank you so much. So our next question is, the floor is open and it's about the anatomy of shame. And the question for each of you is, what systems do you think most fuel the feelings of shame for women specifically in society? So maybe family or friendships, religion, culture, politic, any, take this anywhere you go and you'd like to go. And then if you could make it personal. So yes, conceptual and theoretical. And also could you bring us into a the heartbeat of a moment where you or someone that you love and serve experienced shame as a result of this. And so I'm, I'm gonna go first just to warm us up. I was raised in a southern Baptist religion and also sent to Catholic school, so it was very confusing. Very confusing. And one thing that I love most about my life and still do is I loved animals. I was raised on a farm. They, we just, just obsessed with them. And one day we were driving to school and one of our dogs was on the road and she was gone. She was with the Lord and I was so devastated. And I went to, you know, I'm in second grade, so that makes you what? Like seven. And I went to the priest and said, pumpkin's with Jesus in heaven now. And at that time, the Catholic church had a different, stance on what happens to the pet's souls and they do now. So thanks Pope Francis for shift shaking that up for us. But at that time, the past, the priest informed me that, oh no, pumpkin was not with the Lord in heaven. There was no soul for pumpkin. And so she just didn't exist anymore. And I felt so much like I, I felt so ashamed because I trusted in this religion, I trusted in this the son of God. I trusted in all the things. And then I felt this hotwash of that's not true and I've been lied to. And not to mention the countless other things that the Catholic church was like. And if you do this, you're going to hell. And if you do this, you definitely don't have any sex.'cause then you're definitely going to hell. So before I even went to the fifth grade, I was sitting in mass and I was like, well why even bother?'cause I'm definitely going to hell. Anyway. I've done way too much to even consider being good. The good. Girl. And so it was really deflating on that. And I know I went to childhood, but I carried that all the way into my first and second year of recovery where I got a new lease on what it means to be a woman of the spirit of the universe. And that religion and spirituality are not the same. So starting from childhood and then carrying it really angstily into current day reality and recovery. And with that, we'll go to Cana. Yeah. So from my side, I think, shame is for what I'm gonna share is more, comes more from family and in the case religion, which is about sex, not considering a taboo and not talk about it. And then from there, I guess it comes the shame of women of us. Having a menstrual period and then shaming. If we got a stain at one point, if we are like having a tantrum, because we are in our PMS and unfortunately we haven't had that kind of culture, we don't have it like how our hormones move around, how we supposed to, we can actually go through them and then we feel shame because we are behaving differently or because we feel like eating more junk food or you know, or different mechanisms that our body has because he's just going through these moon cycles every month. And um, and one of the things that at least happened to me related to sex itself is the fact that. I guess I gotta give a bit of story before that is the fact, like my very, very first love, we were together for four years and, uh, we never had sex. And we never had sex because of fear. Like his brothers and sisters, all of them got married from my side. My brother got got pregnant, no, sorry, not married, pregnant from my side. Also my brother, my cousin, that I'm a bit older than her. So it was so much fear that we never had, you know, we never made love. And that came as a consequence of what I picked up on that at some point that I just discovered like five years ago. It was the fact that I thought that I didn't deserve pleasure. And I used to relate pleasure only to sex, but we can have pleasures for many, many things. I'm just having such a pleasure having this conversation with all of you. You know? So then that's the thing, like starting to see pleasure from a different place, from a different perspective, not only related to sex. And it has just been an odd thing like completely different. And it's been always something that I was like, yeah, pleasure. And I even have it in my, in my desktop, uh, among all the wordings and, you know, affirmations that I have there. The word pleasure is there. And no coincidence that the universe at this time, I am actually taking a, a certification as a neuro epigenetic breathing coach. This certification has been just blowing my mind because the mentor, what she talks about as us as human beings, we are sex, love, and consciousness, but unfortunately we have been fragmented. No, love is one thing, sex is another thing, and then consciousness is something else. It's like, hell no. We have everything in our body. So for me, trying now, you know, like really understanding and embodying that part of saying, yes, we are sex and we are love. And when we think about it, it's like, of course we come from those two elements from our parents. They have sex and love, otherwise we were not here, you know? But it's just crazy how much then we can have that. Shame of not talking about sex and pleasure and sensuality when it's part of ourselves. And that's what I'm like now. It's like, you know, bringing it on and that's what I'm tuning in more with my body and I can't wait to bring this to, to the world for me to be able to share it because it's so important for us to, again, talking like, you know, just hearing this panel, all the shame that we carry in our bodies for a comment of someone like, how come it's that possible that it can carry us through how many decades? So the more we can tune in with our bodies that we more we can love ourselves and care for ourselves, then that shame starts to, to them away. That's how I feel it. Yeah, so love, sex, and consciousness. And if you're not watching the video, I want you to know that when Cana was talking about periods and menstruation and sex, all of the women's heads were nodding and nodding and nodding and nodding. And so I'm seeing a theme here of periods and sex and making love. And I'll just add orgasms and self-pleasure and this disconnection from who we are as women and our own sexuality, which is inherent, it's core, and it's so important. And as I'm learning recently, might be the biggest blocker to creating a manifesting abundance that putting the lid on the sex sacred sexuality of self. And so, yes, and then also, did anybody hear the song? Let's talk about sex, be B. Let's, okay. You did too. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Awesome. Okay. Pass to you, Tracy. Yeah, so. I was just thinking about this. I. You ask kind of where does shame come from? And I believe it's just, again, it's this, it's this sense of belonging. I think we all wanna belong. And ever since I was a little girl, I felt like I never belonged. I never, I was always different, no matter how much I wanted to just blend something, always, if everyone was over there, I was thinking this. But the one thing I was gonna share is I have never been religious. My family's never been religious. My mom was raised Catholic, Episcopalian, but she was raised in the Catholic school system and it just terrified her. She just felt the fear all the time about all the sin and the nuns, and she was afraid of'em. And so when she had her children, she had us baptized, but she would read to us from the Bible and she would just say, guys, be good every day and not just on Sunday. And that was literally my religion growing up. But. Everyone would always try to shame me for that because other people were very religious and they would make me feel bad. And I feel like I've always been spiritual, but what I was gonna share was I've always been into things that I realized in my twenties, other people judged. So I've always been into astrology. I don't know where it started, but my parents aren't into it. I'm sorry, I'm turning off my robot. It's making noise. And they would so anyway, I, I was into crystals and now that I'm older, I was into crystals and tarot cards. And I remember I had a really good friend who, um, I asked him what his, uh, astrology sign was, his zodiac sign. I, this guy I thought the world of, he was super intelligent, very smart, but he was also a minister. And he was like, I don't do that. And I was like, I don't understand. And he, then he explained to me that, I guess in the religious circles. Astrology and all of that sometimes is, is not cool. I remember feeling so much shame in that moment. I played my whole life back, like, oh my God, what is wrong with me? And I put it away. I stopped. Even though I'm not religious, I just stopped kind of doing it. And, um, now that I'm older, I'm realizing I, I don't care what people think anymore. But when I was on TikTok about a year ago, TikTok is this amazing algorithm. Whatever you interact with, it's gonna send you more of it. So I'm interacting with all this different stuff and I started noticing at the bottom of it everything was hashtag witch to, and I was like, oh my God. Like through my phone. And again, I was like, what is my deal? And I felt so much shame and I'm thinking, I'm looking at stuff about herbs and natural medicine and the moon and tarot, and. So I bought a book on witches.'cause I thought, what is this? And I'm just gonna say it. I'm gonna out myself. I was a hundred percent a witch for sure in a past life, without a doubt. They used to say that if you had black cats, you were a witch. I'm already done there. I love animals. I've always had black hats. Witches were these amazing people. They just knew about the different seasons and Mother Earth and how to work with the land and herbs. And they were healers. There were these beautiful, amazing women, but men decided we can't have this. And there was a, a, anyway, I won't, I won't go into all of it. So I just, I wanted to out myself with that because I've always held back everything that I'm into from a spiritual standpoint. I have been made to feel like it is wrong, and so I kind of hide it. And now I'm out there, I'm out there. I I, I put it out there. Human design is what I do. And some people, even with that, because astrology is a part of it and all of these systems are out there, it's to let you know that you have the answers. We don't have to rely on a book or some other person. It's within us. And so I will, I'll leave it there. Also notice all of our heads nodding with you. I'm like, yeah, we're widgets too. Yes. Yes. And I was hoping you would mention human design because knowing ourselves and our energy design sets us free. And just a quick example of that is. I had a really powerful session with Tracy, and she shared with me my human design. And I'm a projector, which means I'm pretty big source of energy, but also it's a little bit, I have to use it wisely, and it just brought me so much personal peace to remember. Yeah, that's who I am. No need to be ashamed of how bright the light gets when I walk into the room, because before that session, I knew I had a bunch of light and I knew that I was here to project it, but I didn't feel like I was deserving or as confident as I did when I walked out of that and it was an hour session and a document and I said, let's go change the world because now we know who we are and there's zero space for shame. And so I cannot recommend that work with Tracy. Enough. Human design and what it comes down to that many of us have said is a deep. Remembering'cause it's not like we didn't know, but it's a remembering of who we actually are, not reliant upon. I'm gonna just call out the patriarchy, which all those systems are, you know, and that's not necess. I'm not a man hater. I love man men. I'm married to one. He's very hot. And but what I am saying is that shame is ensconced in these structures that we participate in from the first breath. And that's, that's racism and it's sexism and it's classism and it's all those things. And so because there's so much shame entrenched in those systems, the most powerful thing we can do, I have two. One is to know ourselves so that we can then know and love the woman and the person sits across from us no matter what. Remembering that we are all one and shame's main job is to separate us. Thank you Tracy. Jen, you're on that. Danny, can I just say Yeah. One really quick thing? Mm-hmm. Just for listeners, normally the thing that you are ashamed of or that you are keeping your holding yourself down on is your superpower. Is the thing that when you turn up the volume, more than likely that is your gift on the other side. Alright. I'm done. Thank you Jen. I think that one of the things I was thinking about, so I was reading your questions. So what systems fueled most? Shame for women. There's so many things involved in culture that shame women, all different kinds of things. I think one of the interesting things that, that's a part of a couple different systems is the idea of being a parent, whether you are or not, how you do it. There's so, so many ways that people shame you about it. Interesting. I thought it was interesting too because we have a, a good mix on this panel. Some of us are parents, some of us aren't. I had an experience once where I had just had one of my kids, I can't remember which one and I was in a group of other women and I went to the bathroom and my kid was safely in the, their carrier. Right. And it was my, that's right. It was my second son. There we go. Now I got it. And I went to the bathroom and I heard them talking about me in the bathroom. So I heard them saying something about they wish that I wasn't there and they couldn't wait for me to leave. And it was interesting because these are, these women were women who were perfect parents, you know, they were, they always were the ones who always picked their kids up all the time and went to every PTA meeting and all of these things. And I felt so much less than because I was new at parenting this little person. So I, I think it's really interesting. So, to finish that story, I, I called my husband. I didn't drive at the time, and I got out of there because I wasn't gonna be around those women. But I think it's interesting how women in particular can shame each other about parenting and lack of shame or it, it doesn't matter. I think it's terrible that we're taught that there's. More value in one way or or the other. And in how we do it, everybody's just trying their best. I feel like parent or dog, parent or cat parent. We're all just trying our best. And I, I always remember, remember that just because I think, first of all, I was struck by the fact that these other women we're being so awful about something like that. But yeah. But you, that's a beautiful point. And the reason is not because those women are awful, it's because we're a part of a system where shame is in the water, and that's why we're here today. And so what I heard you say is, yes, it's an internal game. And also can we not be an asshole to each other, especially women to women, and just in deciding to be kind and loving or even curious. Deciding that if you knew the whole story, the only thing you would feel is connection, love, and compassion. And then moving on with your day. Whether you agree or disagree is so powerful. And then I just wanna add quickly to that is being a mom and then watching the way that I'm interfacing with my own kids. So I don't, I interrupt that passing down. So when I received a shaming remark from my mom or from my teacher or whatever, and then it starts to come outta my mouth to my own daughters, I wake up and say, actually, you're an amazing person and maybe you just made a bad choice. How can we fix it for next time? But sending my girls to school with a reminder that you are beautiful daughters of the infinite, and so is everyone else in your class. And what we're looking at right now is the types of choices that we are making. Do they align with who we actually are? Which just in case you're confused, worthy, loved, deserving enough, repeat, worthy, loving, deserving enough. The end, nothing that we can do can jeopardize that. And so now the question is about the action. Casey round us out. I do not have children of my own, although I feel like I have a hundred kids out there in the world and I get to celebrate all the time. And the thing that really comes in is there is so much shame they go through. And I can relate on my own level that the society puts on us about how we should look and how we should feel. These kids that have scars like me, like they're the ones that inspired me to like show my scar off. How can I tell these kids they're superheroes in my eyes and show your scar off when I'm not doing it? And a lot of these children are losing their hair, and so we have made fun hats that we get to do. For and to bring into the hospital for these kids to make them feel normal. Like it's okay to not have hair. It's okay to have badass scars like society puts so much pressure on us as humans, and we're here to change that. Yes. And you, that's the perfect segue, the perfect segue to this next question, which is, okay, great. Now we know we've got shame. We know she doesn't like us to talk about her. We know we're using shame against each other. We know that it's in inco, ensconced in the systems. And so what are we going to do? Like, what are we going to do? So the question for you is, and Casey, you just named one, what practices help you and that you recommend with the women that you serve to release shame? So you shift when it starts to come in, what are the practices that you use? And I'll bring the one that Brene Brown mentions, because this is the one that I use most in my life, is I'm awake when the feeling, it's the warmth, right? Someone says something or, makes a nasty comment or whatever, and then I'll start to notice the warmth, which is my signal, and then I'll bring it back to who am I? Who am I? Who am I? And it's simple, right? I'm a daughter of the infinite. I'm a spirit of the universe. I'm loved, I'm worthy. I'm enough. I'm a deserving. The end. And then if it's a question of a decision that I made, or a choice that I made that wasn't in alignment, I get in and I start talking to me, right? It's like the sexiest monologue. Like, Hey sis, you made a mistake. It's okay. Can we do better next time? And the other part of me is like, yeah, sure. Let's do better next time. Okay, that's scene. Let's keep moving. So my whole identity isn't on the line every time I do it to myself or receive it from someone else, but it comes back to a practice of remembering who the fuck I am. Then getting in the heart and soul of the conversation and being real nice to me. Really kind, really loving, just like I was talking to my youngest daughter or any of my daughters. So that's the practice that I use for myself. It's the one that has set me free and that I most recommend. And let's go to you, Jen. I have to say that this is incredible because the practices for me relate to breath work for sure. Being able to breathe into the feelings. Are they real feelings? Is this accurate? Is this something that I need to work on? And then also, I like to, because what I do, I write, so I always like to write through it in my journal. In the mornings or in the evenings, I like to write through it and then kind of clarify those feelings too, if this is real, what do I want to do about it? If this is not real, why, why? How can I not trigger myself about this? Can I not be around those people or around that? Whatever it is that's bringing that up for me. So I think that that's valuable because then you can either discard it or work with it. So for me, that's useful. And I try to make it not too long because a lot of times when people say, oh, we have to journal, it's like a 40 minute session, but I tend to do that very quickly. It works for me. Yeah, the somatic practice of breath work and then making it quick and quick and easy. We don't have to get in bed with shame and like have a talk out. It can be literally in the moment. Redirect. Thank you Jen. And uh, back to you, Tracy. Yeah, so I was gonna say, I think one of the number one things to do is just to own it. To own it and put it out there. Dana, I remember I've told you this before, but the first time I listened to your podcast, which is phenomenal hearing you tell your story the way you told it with so much honesty, vulnerability, laughter, the whole thing, it was so beautiful to witness. Um, and I think everyone can learn from that because it's something about. It's something about keeping things inside. That's where the ugliness grows. That's what how shame grows. It's, it requires it to stay locked inside. And the thing is, it's going to come out, it may not come out verbally, but it's going to come out either through the body or you holding back from something. Or maybe you have a conversation with someone and it triggers something and people are like, whoa, where did that come from? It's coming from that shame that you've locked down inside. So I would say also when you speak it into existence, not, it doesn't just help you, but somebody out there is gonna hear your story and say Yes. Oh my gosh. I just saw a, um, a social media post from a woman the other day. She lost her, her mother walked away from her at a very early age, so she felt so much shame. Her own mother didn't want her, and she was with one of her girlfriends and her girl. They weren't even talking about this. And her friend just said, Hey, my mom left when I was three years old. And the woman was like, what? And her whole world changed from that moment because she had found someone who had her story. So that's something else to think about. We keep these things locked inside. So I would say just own it. And really quickly from the book, women Who Run With the Wolves, they had three things. Be open up the secret, speak it into existence, and write a new ending. Write a new ending. You have the power of the pen. You can change it from the moment that you talk it and write yourself a new ending. Yes. And the thing that came up for me is if it has a name, that means there are a lot of people that have the same experience. And so in the recovery community we walk in and we're like real with shame because we've made all these decisions and contracted some STDs and maybe been to jail and all these things. And so when we get in these rooms, recovery's really powerful'cause we get in and tell the gnarly, gritty, edit truth about the experience. And you watch the heads in the room nod, just like everybody's nodding now. And the reminder that if it has a name, that means many of us have experienced it. And so I don't, I'm not sure why STDs came up, but like, hello. One in like everyone has one. Okay. So we can, we can talk about it. It's okay. And that's just another example of, something that so many people experience and that we can speak truth onto. So thank you for those three examples. I'm definitely gonna put that book in the show notes too. And let's go to Casey. That was powerful. I was like, whoa, wait a minute. I forgot what I was gonna say. Um, I, I, oh yeah. Um, breath can't even get words out. Sorry. I can't, okay. I'm gonna follow that back with, I do breath work to calm my nervous system down. Um, and I do affirmations. Um, my grandmother was the queen. She passed away a year ago and she was a queen, and I never realized it until after she passed away. The power of what she did in her life was wake up every morning putting on her makeup, telling herself, I am beautiful. And she got ready every day and I. I also think the other biggest thing is just speaking it. Every single one of us in here are freaking speaking it in some way or another and it's touching everybody. Yeah. Also the power of podcast, right? Because all each of us have used our platforms and podcasts to speak truth into our own experience and everybody's stories, especially when they get really personal and you start like letting out some of those secrets. It is the deepest, most powerful connector between me and the listener and you and your listeners. And I'll be on your podcast like, yes, me too. I love skinny dippy and so, so thank you for that. Thank you for your work in the world, Cana. Yeah, from my side, I think it's'cause I. I've done a lot of inner work. I mean, we all are have, but I mean really if we go to a deep practice that it takes longer. It is more to, as you say Dana, get to know ourselves, like get to know ourselves deeply and accepting our light and accepting our shadow because more of the shame, it comes from the shadow. It's the hidden pieces that we don't want people to see or floss, whatever it is in there that is not accepted by society, culture, et cetera, et cetera. So once we know which our shadows are, people can come and tell you whatever, and you're like, yeah and I love myself and it's part of me. I'm so proud of it. Fuck off. Like seriously, you know? So it's, I think that's one of the things, like it gave us a superpower. The more we get to know love and accept ourselves, the less shame we're going to get. And now, at least for me, when there's someone approaching that, I can feel like, bringing that kind of sense of shame. What I do is like, yeah, it's the perception of that person. Whatever his life experience has been, it's how they perceive it. But I don't see it that way and it's great. That's it. So the really deep grounding into who you are and what you agree with and what you're available for, and you can say, yes ma'am, or fuck off, either way works. Yeah. Because it's up when you get clear. Mm-hmm. It's up to us to give them permission or not, but we are conscious and aware enough now to say, am I gonna allow you? Yeah. No, I feel it. In your bo in my body. It's warm. Oh, it's comfort. Yeah. I'm not taking it. Thank you very much. I'm not taking it. That is gorgeous. I want to lay out one more, and this came straight from your inspo, Jen, one more practice that I'm gonna call all of us forward. Everybody here, everybody out there who's listening is the practice of being a shame interceptor. And so I'll give you an example. When I, we talked, we already talked about my thigh, so let's talk about my ass for a second. So I have a juicy booty, like it's juicy. I and I used to feel ashamed of it until one woman pulled me aside when I made a self deprecating remark about my butt. And she said, don't you know that men love the juiciest booties? And from not that like my whole worthiness is dependent upon men, but it was when the moment that I stepped in my own sacred sexuality and started walking around the world like my ass was fine. And guess what happened? Everybody else. Started to agree and align and I felt sexier and I felt more in my own body. And so I'm able to, now, my second daughter, God bless her, she's the one with the juiciest boot at our house and my oldest daughter is, is thin. And so she'll say something like, oh, Audrey's bat. And I'm like, oh no, she's got the juiciest boot in the house. Like it's something to love and cherish. And so my daughters and I twerk around the house just like showing off what we've got and really loving what is, and we intercept that. So when someone else makes a remark that is intended for shame, whether it's consciously or from the systems, we intercept it in whatever way feels authentic to you, you might not be willing to tell the lady in the stall to fuck off. But I am. I. But you could do something a little bit more nuanced with the people with whom you have the most sacred influence. So starting in your mirror and then starting in your bedroom, and then going into your community and going into the lives that you touch and intercepting that shame in a way that feels really good. So to close this out. I've invited each of our panelists to share what we're gonna call a power sentence to any woman listening right now who feels the sense of shame. And by the way, when we start speaking about our own shame, it's like everyone resonates. So you probably have already felt a little bit of the warmth today, right? Because when we talk about it, it's infectious. Okay? So I invited each of our panelists to offer one sentence to any woman listening who feels like she's in shame now, or stuck in a shame from the past. And she's like, what do I do? So, uh, the floor is open, one power sentence to anybody who's listening, who feels stuck in shame in Casey, you can lead us off. I love you. I see you. I hear you. Your story matters. And I'm here to celebrate you all the way through it. Jen, you're not alone and you deserve love, and you deserve to pursue whatever makes you feel good or that you are a part of something bigger. You deserve it. Yes, not alone, and you deserve it. And pursue what makes you come alive. Thank you, Tracy. I want a juicy booty. I would say love yourself. Know yourself. Don't let anybody tell you who you are and share your story. Share it. Bring it to the light. Yes. Share that story as a, as a vehicle for healing and change and liberation and freedom. Ah, thank you. Tracy Cana. Yeah. All beautiful chairs. If you are on your own name it, say it out loud. Put a super hot song and shake it off because that shame is gonna, is stain in your body, freaking shake it out out and dance it until you're tired. It looks sexy doing it. You know what I mean? Like using pleasure as the Yeah. Oh yeah. Mm-hmm. Out. And my sentence for you is get in community. Get in community, because shame, hates. When the story arises, it hates words wrapped around it. It wants us to stay separated. So get yourself in community, whether it's a community mastermind, whether it's a spiritual community or recovery community, or a sexy bitch community, or a writer's community, whatever it is, because in community, we remember that we're all one, that we're connected, our hearts are connected, and that our deepest shame ultimately gets to be the source of our greatest power. Because let me tell you something straight from Tracy. When you tell the nitty gritty gnarliest details of your story, there is a woman within your radius who's gonna say, me too. And together you have set each other free. So I wanna go back to the definition of shame as a reminder of who you actually are. When I say who the fuck you are, this is what you're gonna remember. Shame is the intensely painful feeling or experience of believing that we are flawed and therefore unworthy of love, belonging, and connection. So the antidote is in the definition we are worthy. Have you ever asked yourself, who am I? Really? What's my purpose? Here you go. Write it down. Number one, we are worthy of love. We are love. Number two, we are worthy of belonging. You are belonging. And number three, we are worthy of connection. You are the connection. The connection to the infinite, the connection to the women in your lives, the connection to the woman in the mirror. You are love, you are belonging, you are connection. And the assignment now is to go out and tell the truth about your experience so you can bridge the gap for the next woman who feels like she's alone and drowning in her own shame. Can I get an amen on a weak day? Amen. Okay, so to close this out. I just want to say as a reminder, shame is something that we have. It's not something that we are, and our story is something that we've experienced. It's not who we are. Remember that we're whole and we're worthy, and we're powerful beyond even our wildest dreams. So I'm so grateful for you, Cana, and Casey and Tracy and Jen, thank you for your stories. Thank you for your liberating truth. Thank you for your work in the world. Thank you, gorgeous listener for who you are and who you get to be. Now that you know the assignment, may we all move into the rest of our lives a little more, less shameful, and a whole lot more free. Cheers to the shameless woman. Woo. Thank you. Thank you. Love y'all. Oh, whoa. Did you just feel what I felt? There is a whole lot of that and more to help you create miracles in your life. On upcoming episodes of the Girls Who Recover a podcast now ranked in the top 5% of podcasts globally. If you've built a strong recovery foundation and you're feeling ready to break through life's glass ceilings, let's make it happen together. In the show notes, you'll find a link to book a free one-on-one conversation with me and in that conversation. We'll get clear on what next level success even looks like for your life. We'll create some powerfully aligned goals and a plan. We're gonna talk about the big thing holding you back, and you will walk away with a roadmap for how to create a life you are obsessed with. Because hear this from me, my friend. You deserve. Success and freedom and the full identity of a woman who knows what she's capable of and who she is. And I wanna help you get there. So book your free call in the notes. And if you love this episode, follow us five stars, write a review, share it with your best friend, share it with your mom. And in case you haven't heard it today, I love you. I'm so proud of you, and I believe in your ability to create a gorgeous life. You are madly in love with starting. Right now and I'll see you in the next episode, mwuah.