Mind Over Masculinity
Let’s stop asking men to "man up" and start asking how we can lift them up. After all, mental health is not just a women’s issue or a men’s issue—it’s a human issue.
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Mind Over Masculinity
Finding Your Pack: The Power of Brotherhood in Mental Health
Have you ever accomplished something impressive—crossed a finish line, hit a major goal—only to find the victory strangely hollow? Tyler Smith knows this feeling intimately. After conquering Ironman races and lifting challenges that would break most men, he discovered something profound: achievements without brotherhood left him feeling empty.
This conversation dives deep into what happens when men shift from solo pursuits to shared struggle. Tyler explains how his burnout from chasing individual accolades transformed into creating Triumphant Challenge, where men combine physical challenges with purpose and community. We explore the fascinating psychological truth that men tend to bond best side-by-side rather than face-to-face, and why hard physical effort creates space for emotional connections that conversation alone rarely achieves.
Drawing from his experience as a physical therapist for elite military teams, Tyler shares how high-performers balance intensity with recovery, and why even the toughest warriors need community. For those feeling stuck or intimidated, he offers practical first steps—even just five minutes daily of movement—to build momentum toward joining others. We challenge the "lone wolf" mentality that pervades masculine culture, revealing how accountability often trumps pure discipline when it comes to sustainable growth.
Whether you're already hitting impressive goals or struggling to start, this episode illuminates why finding your pack isn't just beneficial—it's essential to our nature as men. Listen now to discover how training with purpose rather than just performance can transform not only your physical health but your entire approach to masculinity.
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Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of Mind Over Masculinity, where we break the old school mold, redefine what strength means and dig deep into what it really takes to be a man in today's world. I am your host, avik, and today we are talking about one of the most powerful, primal and honestly overlooked aspects of mental health Doing hard things not solo, but as a pack. So, dear listeners, you see that there is something, something ancient in us, something primal the need to hurt others, or rather I would say hunt others, to grind together, to suffer and succeed alongside our brothers. But in today's hyper individualized world, we have lost that age and with it, sometimes our mental health as well. To crack this open, I'm I'm connecting down with someone who lives and breathes this idea tyler smith.
Speaker 2:so welcome to the show, tyler thanks for having me appreciate, having me uh be a guest on your show lovely, lovely.
Speaker 1:So, tyler, like before we start, I'd quickly love to introduce her to all of our listeners. Dear listeners, tyler isn't just a physical therapist for the elite military teams. He's an iron man, the chief challenge officer at a triumphant challenge, and a man who's been to the mountaintop of peak performance only to realize the view wasn't enough. So Tyler turned his burnout into a bold movement where fitness meets legacy and challenges, becomes catalyst for the mental clarity, purpose and the brotherhood. So, dear listeners, I'll not take much of your time. We'll quickly jump in on mind over masculinity with one and only Tyler Smith. So welcome to the show, tyler.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. That was a great introduction and does encapsulate my story and kind of the arc of my life really well to this point.
Speaker 1:Exactly, exactly, lovely. So, tyler, like, like, I mean you have done the hard things, I mean lifted insane weight, then crossed iron man finish lines, but you have said those wins felt empty. So what do you think I mean was missing from those solo fiat's?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think, uh, I had been kind of chasing the wrong, you know up the wrong mountain for quite a while in my life and I'd done a lot of my physical activities as almost like a bucket list right. I had that mentality of I'll just write all these things down the five minute mile, the thousand pound club and weightlifting, Ironman, a marathon, all these kinds of things that I eventually began to reflect on. That became a little bit hollow when I kind of got to the goal. I hit the, like you said, the Ironman finish line, and there was, you know, there was a lot of people around me and that's amazing, but it did feel, um, in a sense like I'd alienated a lot of my friends and relationships up to that point because of how much training I had to do to get to that, you know, finish line. So I kind of got to step back at a certain point this is in 2023, 2024, and kind of realized, had I kept going down this path, kind of on this solo endeavor of pursuing all these individualistic goals, that it might have been a regret later on down the line.
Speaker 2:And I think, doing hard things with other people, building community, getting people to, you know, get motivated to get off the couch and and see them grow not just your own self and your own physical quest, but to see other people do it with you, I think is the more impactful thing that I can have on the world. So that was kind of the origin story of Triumph and Challenge. And now there's, you know, seven fitness events and charities that we give back to throughout the year where it's combining that physicality. So it's like a small group of people that we meet up, we do something hard together, there's a charitable aspect of it and it's kind of all based in this historical tribute to the past of somebody that had to die to get you the day of rest for that holiday. So that's kind of the blend of physicality, history and community that I'm trying to build with Triumphant.
Speaker 1:Lovely. So like yeah, I mean. So was there a specific moment that made you realize it wasn't just about the challenge, but it's who you are and doing it with?
Speaker 2:they're really inspired by. I had been posting some of my progress during these challenges, whether it was a lifting or a running goal. But, um, I think what also fuels me in a different sense is seeing other people progress and push their own comfort zones and and kind of strive together towards something. And I think, like we had mentioned, that is really deeply kind of in our species, where we have for hundreds of thousands of years, longer than we've, been farmers and you know, um, agriculturalists, you know hunters and that kind of thing, where you had to bind, you know, certain groups of people and tribes of people together to go pursue the superordinate goal of taking down the woolly mammoth and all those kind of things. And that was a very bonding kind of thing to do as a society.
Speaker 2:So, um, I think that trying to reinstill kind of that primal necessity of there's this big mountain that we want to get to and how are we going to get there as a pack, I think is really important for me to see and to kind of show that it is possible, because I think with a group that we are able to see a little bit farther, we might not go as fast. That's always the classic saying, if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. So I think having the group mindset now with my physical goals is going to allow me eventually to get the momentum that I want to go farther in my life than had I just been pursuing the physicality as an individualistic goal.
Speaker 1:Hmm, okay, and yes, a lot of us chase those external milestones, the six pack, the race medal, the applause yeah, without the commendee it's like throwing a punch in the dark room. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah, you're saying something.
Speaker 2:Yes, please oh no, go for it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I didn't want to interrupt you okay, okay, so, um, and also, like you, talk a lot about training for the purpose, not just for the performance. So what does uh that look like in the practice? I mean especially when training with others yeah, 100.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I think that can be another kind of mindset you get wrapped into, because there's kind of maybe stages to physical training. First you might be training even for purely vanity sake. You want to get a six-pack, the summer's coming up, you want to. You just broke up with your boyfriend or girlfriend and you want to get the revenge body and kind of show them that you know you're a certain type of individual, so it could be more vanity. And then you can kind of show them that you know you're a certain type of individual, so it could be more vanity. And then you can kind of eventually get to the, you know, performance stage where you just want to do really well in all these races and kind of beat your own past self, which I think is a lot healthier than maybe the previous stage.
Speaker 2:I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with any of these stages. They're just ways to maybe achieve a level of motivation that you need to pursue. The goal. So I would say, like the second stage is more training for performance. You have a really good competition with within yourself or with some external person to train every day, to go pursue that and, you know, do a track on and get the medals, like you were just stating. But I think the pinnacle maybe of training is to zoom out and kind of have that bird's eye view of how can my suffering, my training, all these things benefit the other you know how can I bring through my own physical body and my own fitness a benefit to somebody else.
Speaker 2:And so you see things like AIDS walks and cancer walks and all these kind of you know, philanthropy and fitness endeavors, which I think are awesome, where there is a large component of you know giving back to, you know, research for a disease that's, you know, ravaging humanity or something. So I think that's really important. But to get people on that path, I think there also has to be a little bit of that. You know the purpose behind it, the history of it, the physical impact that you're seeing in the community kind of on a more local level, because it can get kind of, you know, so global in the sense that you know it's hard to see what you're walking a 5k is going to do to really stop cancer, you know, and it's tracks and that kind of becomes abstracted in a certain sense when it is such a a large goal that we're tackling, not to say that those are bad, but it's hard to see your impact. And so I think the benefit of triumphant is that I not only do you know, uh, give directlyorg, isa, main, you know philanthropic wing of give direct of-Fit, but also there's seven you know, relatively smaller charities as well. So those are again tied back to what that challenge was.
Speaker 2:So for Martin Luther King, he was the co-president of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference when he was active in the 1960s for voting rights and everything. So that's one of the charities I give back to. There's also the Cesar Chavez Tribute, where I do farm workers justice. So every challenge has a smaller, you know, organization tied in with it as well, which aren your dollar can go farther had you, you know, gone and done something for them as well. So I think that it's good to have a different perspective maybe on how training for a purpose you can kind of see that more visibly if you do kind of a smaller scale organization than just these larger societal problems as well organization than just these larger societal problems as well.
Speaker 1:Amazing. So um like um, and there's this idea that men bond best side by side, not face to face. So so like on a hike in the gym or grinding through something difficult. So why do you think hard physical effort creates deeper emotional connection for men?
Speaker 2:That's an amazing question. Yes, and I have definitely heard of that as well. Where women can you know, have coffee together, look face-to-face, be sitting directly in front of each other and kind of have a discussion? Men often need a third thing. It can be you know, have coffee together, look face to face, be sitting directly in front of each other and kind of have a discussion. Men often need a third thing. It can be, you know, doing building furniture together, working on your car together, going on a hike, doing something physical in the world.
Speaker 2:That is a I don't know fully the psychology behind the differences there. Maybe that's something to do with, you know, testosterone level of men and you feel like you're being challenged if you're, you know, eye contact directly in front of somebody, so that as a way to disperse that masculine energy, you need to be side by side and kind of be able to to look away. Or maybe men are just, I don't know more likely to be on the autism spectrum and that's harder for us to make eye contact. I don't know exactly what it is, but that is definitely a thing that I think is, you know, pretty widespread and I think maybe it also has to go back to. You know that that need to be chasing something, as, as a man, you're kind of always in the pursuit of some external goal when you're usually hanging out with somebody, whether it's on a sports team, right, we're all bonding over this goal of beating the other team in basketball or hockey or something. And so there's always this third activity that you can kind of, um, you know, mesh together to go pursue. But, um, I found yeah, I've had success with starting like track Tuesdays and so clubs where I work on base, to get guys to come out and do again a really hard thing together, like a hard speed workout where you're doing 400s or 800 meter repeats on the track and trying to keep up a certain pace, and it kind of fosters a little bit of a healthy competition.
Speaker 2:And again, like you said, you're not looking at necessarily somebody you know directly, but they're off to your side or or you can hear them running beside you, you can hear them breathing hard and they kind of all those you know. Again, that primal kind of instinct to keep going and work harder. When you hear your buddies struggling next to you, you know kind of keep going down the track and really push yourself. So I feel like there is a big push to go pursue something together, but having that kind of a bonding, but a slight distance as well, you know. Um, so there's not that maybe awkward interaction.
Speaker 2:I don't know if that's exactly what it would be, but, um, I always, for that reason, like to go on hikes or do on a first date is, you know, dinner and a movie, because then A you're not talking during the dinner and then during the movie and then during the dinner you're eye contact, face to face. So I've always found more benefit from going on a hike or going on a walk for a first date, because then there's this area that I can kind of be scanning the horizon. You're still having this, you know, potentially intimate conversation, but there is more wandering that the mind can do and I tend to think better when I am in motion as well. So, um, I think that's really important as well to to foster, you know, better dialogue and conversation when you you kind of have, um, you know, a beautiful vista to look at as well yeah, good, and I mean it's really wild the the moment you are exhausted, covered in sweat and just done that's.
Speaker 1:That's often when the world's drop. Like suffering lowers the ego. Um, yeah, exactly. And also like you walk with high performers in the military, like that's a group where community is essential. So what have you learned about the mental health and the performance from that culture of small back suffering?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I work as a physical therapist for the human performance optimization team for the Air National Guard in Washington and so you do get to see these kind of special warfare operators during their in their basic training. These guys have been in their military career for maybe five, 10 years, so they're kind of past that early stage. But that, you know, basic training is designed to kind of suck in the sense that that really does bond you because you're all going through this really trial of fire basically the entire time. But, um, with the guys that I work with today, they're all cut from a certain cloth because they are, you know, pursuing um a longer standing military career, and that's the purpose of my job is trying to keep them healthy and and all that kind of stuff so they can have the 20, 30, 40 year career that they want now. So the military is kind of being more forward looking with having more support staff and rehab teams and strength coaches for these guys. And it's very crucial because the way these guys have to operate, you have to train at a certain level and intensity, like you were just saying, to kind of achieve the results that you want. So it is very crucial to balance both of those things that they have a very strong drive to achieve, to train hard, but that the recovery is just as strong with a lot of these guys, because you have to balance, you know, the sleep, with the training, with the nutrition, with the mindfulness and stress management, or else there's no possible way that they can hit a target at you know 500 yards if they're in this constantly fight or flight state. You need to be able to rocks parasympathetic system, needs to kick on deep breaths and kind of control that so that you can do these kind of higher charging operations and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:So what I've learned is that a lot of these guys when what's gotten me into it actually as of two years ago is doing jujitsu, is doing jujitsu, and so I kind of noticed that a lot of the guys here were kind of into wrestling, jujitsu, rolling martial arts, combat sports, and they do get obviously some combatives training in the military.
Speaker 2:But I think you see, a high achiever have to kind of be able to turn it off in that sense where, in my mind, that's something that we often neglect, is the play aspect of physicality and so having, you know, a non-threatening environment like a jujitsu gym or, you know, a wrestling team or something like that, where you can kind of simulate combat, but it is more of like a dance and you're flowing. And this is why so many cultures have some type of martial art, whether it's, you know, muay Thai or Mud Indian wrestling, all these kinds of cultures ancient Greeks and and their kind of Greco-Roman wrestling all these cultures and the, the warrior mindset, do often have a simulated war zone like jujitsu, like those kinds of martial arts. So that is one thing that I noticed when I did get here, because I didn't do I wrestled in high school but I did not do any jujitsu.
Speaker 2:But there was a large percentage of the guys that are TACPs, so Tactical Air Control Party members that are also doing jujitsu two, three days a week, and that has a tremendous effect on their mental state and their ability to relax from some of these harder missions and deployments when they can come home and have consistent training partners and kind of be able to roll on the mats and have fun and there's a hardwire instinct to do that, I think, as a species as well as not just be hard charging all the time but be able to wind down and simulate maybe a fight, but in a more playful manner. So that's an interesting pattern that I've noticed specifically at the job that I work now got it, so um, okay.
Speaker 1:So how can everyday guys not in the military replicate the same brotherhood? I mean, if you can share yeah, I think there is.
Speaker 2:Uh, the benefit, obviously, of uh the internet and some of these online communities is that you can foster interests in all kinds of areas of the world. So if you don't necessarily have people in your direct line of sight in your village and city where you are, there's definitely an online community. And if you follow enough you know David Goggins and you know Jocko Wilnick and all those kind of personality the there's another podcaster who uh coined the frame, uh toughness influencer, and so I think that's one way to kind of put it right Some of these mindsets where you can get that a little bit from an online community. I think the easiest thing, though, if you can, if you can literally get anybody around you, is to try to meet up with somebody for our weekly, let's say, 5k run, or you know it doesn't whatever distance you want it to be.
Speaker 2:But, uh, I think the accountability is uh one of the biggest life hacks, right, cause most of success you know, 80% whatever the quote is right comes from showing up. So just being there, just being one of the people that's reliable and that shows up, and so what's one of the best ways to show up consistently is not necessarily motivation, not necessarily discipline, in my opinion, but having accountability, having an external person there that's relying on you're not relying on you necessarily with their life or anything, but, you know, relying on your presence as a commitment that you made to be at the gym at you know 7am or go for a run at whatever 5pm after work or something. So if you can build that in in a small way, I think that's a huge win. But there's definitely a lot of online communities as well where you can get accountability.
Speaker 2:Um, triumphant challenge is again one of those and it's a kind of virtual community. But I've kind of wanted to branch more into, you know, the physicality of just you know, specifically, going to a park or something and doing something together. So I think there's benefit from both. But, uh, finally, even just one person that uh can can join you for doing something that you find challenging can make you consistent enough to to kind of stack that compounding effect over time some guys might think that group training is weak, like you have got to be tough enough to go it alone.
Speaker 1:So how do you challenge that belief? I mean that real strength is silent, solo and stoic.
Speaker 2:So so yeah, if you can share yeah, I think, um, that is kind of been a prevailing meme or idea in culture for a long time, that they're supposed to be this alpha wolf mentality and lone wolf and go out and do hard things by yourself and and uh, that can be great. I just I don't think that's really sustainable. I mean, I think the best way to, to start at least, is definitely to have a group in the social aspect of training. I think men are more wired to want to go down that stoic path more. Women maybe are more into group fitness training. But there is a certain percentage of guys that are kind of still beholden to that um, individualistic, um mantra, just because it seems in a way more manly that I didn't need anybody's help. It's this kind of a Ralph Waldo Emerson, you know self-reliance kind of um again, cultural name that's been passed down for a hundred years or so. But the people that I think I see achieve the most. I mean they're on teams, they're, they're people that the marathon runners and all these people, these people they're getting up and they're meeting with their you know, three or four other Olympic caliber runners and they're going and working out together. So I don't think the Kipchoge's and the really world conquerors and world beaters would you know, describe their training as largely independent of a larger community or group or team, or I mean, I think that we really do go farther with the team and I just think that mindset that you have to be so disciplined to do it yourself is is really counterproductive, because I'm like I said, I think accountability actually supersedes discipline when it comes to staying on something for long enough to get the result.
Speaker 2:Often people can get to maybe that individualistic and, you know, individual workout place once they like the activity enough, like some people really don't like running at the beginning, so it really benefits to have a running club or running group and there's so many of these popping up in cities. And then once you start to like running enough because you've been to the group and the social aspect of it, then yeah, you obviously can go do some runs yourself. You don't always need to run with an accountability buddy because you're going to eventually learn to love it enough. But early on, with a new person training for the first time or going to the gym or trying to pursue any physical goal, even really individualistic goals like rock climbing or something I think, going to a rock gym.
Speaker 2:Learning from other people makes your performance so much higher because you know hacking the system, where you have people telling you things that maybe they would have done to speed up the process. So I think, especially, especially you know early on in a physical challenge, having other people around you to either tell you you know where's that you can accelerate your learning, or just making you accountable to be there long enough to then like it to then balance the more masculine way I don't think makes much sense because you're not going to necessarily go as far as you could had you done it the other way yeah, exactly, amazing, amazing, so uh.
Speaker 1:So what advice would you give to a guy who is listening right now, who feels stuck? Maybe even depressed and thinks that I'm not ready to join a group like that. So what do you say?
Speaker 2:yeah, if you're, if you have social anxiety or you're really ashamed about how out of shape you are or something like that, and you're maybe not ready for a group setting because you're embarrassed about your body, you don't want with the world, I think, finding whatever the I call it the MVP, so the minimal viable program or anything like that minimal viable product in business, if you want to describe it that way um, that you can consistently stick to, and I always think it should be so simple that it's something that you can, you know, really commit to, to doing every day. So I'm talking, five minutes or less is the way to get the ball rolling in this sense, and I've had a couple of shoulder surgeries from sports and ice hockey and so I have to do about five minutes of, you know, shoulder stability training in the mornings, some yoga positions and rotator cuff strengthening with bands and such, and so I'm very consistent with that, because the rest of my day I don't have any shoulder pain if I do those. And then I also do a five minute, you know, high intensity sprint thing, which I'm doing every day. It's a sprint interval training I've been doing in the last about 150 days.
Speaker 2:So I think just finding the five minute no more than five minute strength or exercise program or flexibility or stability program that you can start down the path of seeing yourself, as you know, a physical being that you know can, can take ownership of your physical form and see the progress there can make a big difference. So if you're too afraid to kind of go out into the world and and be physical with other people, I think starting with the smallest you know program that you can potentially do, if it's five minutes or less, can kind of build some confidence that maybe or two other friends and then, you know, go to a group class at you know a box gym. Later, once you have even more confidence. But just making it small, making it something you can check off daily in five minutes, kind of builds that early win to go down the line and have more success. In my opinion exactly amazing, amazing.
Speaker 1:So, uh, I'm in thailand. I mean this is this, is this was really a fire? I mean from iron man races into inner purpose, from burnouts to brother brotherhood. Thank you so much for bringing this raw truth and, uh, for all the men who is listening, I mean, here's the bottom line. I mean you were never meant to do life alone. So find your back, push your limits, suffer a little, love a lot and build a legacy. That's about more than just you. So if you have tried of chasing and never arriving, like Tyler said, it's time to train for purpose, not just the performance. So hit, follow, drop a review and tag a brother who needs to hear this. And also remember that real strength isn't about how much you can lift, it's all about how deep you can go with the others. So this is your host, avik, signing off from my deva masculinity. Till then, stay happy, stay healthy, stay strong. Thank you so much.
