Beyond Botox: How to Reduce Wrinkles Naturally & Rethink Aging with Cathy Goldstein

EP 54. Have you started noticing fine lines, wrinkles, or changes in your skin and are wondering what your options are, beyond more products, botox, or cosmetic procedures? This conversation offers a very different perspective. My guest is Cathy Goldstein, acupuncture physician, energy medicine expert, and founder of True Energy Skincare. In this episode, we explore the connection between stress, emotions, facial tension, and the aging process. We also discuss how our faces may reflect more than just the passage of time, why beauty and wellbeing are more connected than we realize, and how Cathy's philosophy, functional aesthetics, is challenging the traditional anti-aging and beauty conversation. 

In this episode:

• The hidden system in the body responsible for most of your healing that Western medicine rarely talks about
• How your face reveals your stress levels and emotions and how facial expressions and muscle tension can become long-term patterns 
• The surprising role facial expressions play in communication and human connection 
• What "functional aesthetics" means and how it differs from conventional anti-aging and skincare approaches 
• The connection between emotions, facial tension, and overall wellbeing 
•  Practical ways to release tension in the face and jaw 
• Why healthy aging may be less about looking younger and more about supporting vitality 

Resources

• Cathy's website: www.TrueEnergySkincare.com
• Follow on Instagram @trueenergyskincare

Guest Bio

Cathy Goldstein is an acupuncture physician, energy medicine expert, educator, and founder of True Energy Skincare. After battling Crohn's disease in her twenties, Cathy was drawn toward holistic healing and dedicated her career to studying the connection between health, energy, and wellbeing. With more than four decades of clinical experience, she developed a philosophy she calls functional aesthetics, an approach that blends beauty, wellness, emotional health, and energy medicine to help women support healthy aging naturally. Through her clinical work, skincare products, and educational programs, Cathy encourages women to rethink conventional beauty standards and embrace a more holistic relationship with aging.

Transcript

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 0:00

our face is actually the mirror of those underlying issues. If we're under stress, we show it in our face.

Speaker 0:08

This is well done. A space where we explore the mind skin connection, living in alignment, and what it actually means to live well and look your best. I am your host Kat, a beauty industry insider, mom of twins, and someone who suffered from severe eczema before realizing that true beauty is an inside job. We don't talk about surface level quick fixes here. This is about real insight, practical tools, and learning how to listen to your body. Let's go.

0:29

Hey, and welcome back to another episode. So if you are like me and starting to notice some fine lines creeping in, some wrinkles here and there, and wondering what your options are beyond adding more products or, going to get Botox, this episode is for you. And before we start, I do have to be 100% honest. I have tried Botox in the past, and that may sound surprising coming from someone who talks a lot about wellness, who talks about low-tox living. But of course, I'm not immune to beauty standards either. And after spending years struggling with my skin and finally getting to a place where it felt healthy, there was a part of me that really wanted to hold onto that smoothness, you know, that smooth, youthful skin for as long as humanly possible. And to each their own, right? You have to do what feels right for you. But for me lately, I have been much more interested in going more natural, natural approaches, and just figuring out ways that we can support healthy aging from the inside out, not just through the products we use, but through things like, nervous system regulation, stress management, overall wellbeing. And perhaps even focusing on the energetics of the face, Which is something that was a brand new concept for me before today's conversation, and we're gonna get into it today. Because so much, of the beauty conversation is all around fixing or eliminating these imperfections. Today's guest is asking us to think about wrinkles and fine lines completely differently. Her name is Cathy Goldstein, and her work is really at the intersection of not just beauty, but wellness, emotional health, and energetics. And this is a combination you really don't see in beauty. We are going to get into the connection between our emotions and our facial expressions how the face holds on to stress and life experiences, and how our culture's obsession with anti-aging may actually be disconnecting us from ourselves and from each other. It's a really interesting perspective on beauty, and I can't wait to dive in. Here is my conversation with Cathy Goldstein

Kat 2:31

Hi, and welcome back to Well Done. Today I am joined by Cathy Goldstein. She is an acupuncture physician, energy medicine expert, and the founder of True Energy Skincare. Cathy is known for challenging the conventional anti-aging conversation and offering a very different and unique perspective, one that sees the face not just as something to fix, but as a reflection of our energy, expression, health, and human connection. Her work blends beauty, wellness, and a philosophy she calls functional aesthetics, helping women think about aging in a more holistic and empowering way. And so in this conversation, we will be exploring what it looks like to approach aging from a more energetic perspective and how to rethink our beauty as we age. I'm so excited to have you on the show, Cathy.

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 3:15

I am excited to be on the show, Kat. Thank you so much for having me on. I can't wait to unpack some of this yummy stuff.

Kat 3:21

So let's start with your own health journey. I think that's a

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 3:23

Mm-hmm.

Kat 3:24

to start. I know that you were diagnosed with Crohn's in your 20s. If you can bring us back to that time, how did that experience change the way you think about health, and how did it ultimately lead you on this path to wellbeing and, beauty?

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 3:36

Yeah. It's really kind of those, moments in your life where you realize that your trajectory is maybe needs a little bit of tweaking. So I actually was studying more for pre-med- And when I got really sick with Crohn's, I had been introduced to acupuncture, but this is really where it landed for me, is, is that I was in the hospital for three months, almost died a couple of times. It... Had multiple surgeries, and I was like, this isn't, this isn't healing." It saved my life, no doubt about it. I'm appreciative of that. But there was no healing system in allopathic medicine. So it really kind of brought me down that trajectory of doing holistic medicine. Acupuncture was what I was introduced to. it just changed my life in how I saw healing, energy you know, what the body actually does because I love the... And I'm fascinated by how the body works. It's an am- amazing machine. But this is, you know, really dealing more with the energy of the body and how the energy really is what... Where we get our healing from.

Kat 4:39

Got it. Okay. So for the listener who might not be a-as well-versed in how energy actually does help heal the body, can you break that down for us and explain a

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 4:48

Yeah.

Kat 4:49

of how that, how that works in practice?

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 4:51

absolutely. When we look at the different systems of the body I like to kinda break it down into different, like, nervous systems, if you will. So there's a physical nervous system, and that physical nervous system is like, it's our, our positive and negative ions that, you know, don't touch the stove, take your hand off the stove. All the things that our body learns but it's a kind of a slow s- even though it's super fast, it's a very slow system. And then the second one is a liquid nervous system, and the liquid nervous system is where there's a lot of action. So it's the fascia, the, blood, the neurotransmitters, the hormones, all those information substances that run through our liquid systems. And then the last one is the what I call the biophoton highway or the energy system, and bio is body and photon is light, and we are, light energy. And what we know is that even though we can't always see exactly what's going on in our healing system, we know that things influence it. So for example, acupuncture. We can measure the acupuncture points. We can measure you know, sometimes where they extend to, but not the actual... We can't actually measure the energy of that- System or the chi or that subtle energy field. And so what we know is, is that if we were to look at the universe, so to speak, Our physical world is only 4 or 5% visible to us, and that 96, 95% of it is what we call dark matter or dark energy, but that is our subtle energy field when it comes to our body. If we're gonna kind of draw a parallel, 95% of our healing, we can't physically see, we can't physically measure. We can measure the outcome, we can measure the results, but we can't see oh, there's, you know, an energy shift here that's actually healing this body. it's a kind of a very different way of looking at things and very... Even though I'm really solid in my Western medicine, concepts of how the body produces hormones and things like that, there are so many things that we don't see that we just accept, right? So that's kind of like the energy field of the body that does the majority of the healing.

Kat 7:14

So then if you are not feeling well, I guess the theory would be that something's or off with your energy? Like, what does that actually mean? Is there a blockage? What is the energy doing

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 7:25

Yeah.

Kat 7:25

not feeling well or

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 7:26

I,

Kat 7:27

wrong with your,

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 7:27

I, I love that question because it's so very much how we think about our body, Which is and we aren't symptom-based, but it is the only thing that we can measure because we know, "Oh, I'm feeling tired. I have a headache. I th-have a cold. My back hurts." These are all symptoms, but the underlying issue and how we actually heal don't come from do- You know, I mean, if you're taking a drug, you can get rid of a headache, right? But there's also an energetic pathway to that as well. But the idea is, is that if we're healing the system, we don't really start with trying to resolve a headache. We go, "Where does this headache come from?" Well, in Chinese medicine, there's, four different reasons why people tend to have headaches. Let me do a more of a differential diagnosis, find out the root of the problem, and address the root of the problem, and that's where the energy system starts shifting so that you don't have chronic symptoms, chronic issues, autoimmune issues, things like that. It's a very different way of looking at our healing system, but it's vital because- we already accept things that have to do with our body healing in this way. We just don't even realize that we're accepting it.

Kat 8:49

so much of our Western, I guess, conventional approaches to medicine is really about what you see. Like, to your point, "Oh, I have a, I have a skin rash. You know, whatever

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 8:58

Yeah.

Kat 8:58

is, and then you address that, but it could have been something else that caused all of that, and we don't necessarily look a little bit deeper

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 9:04

Exactly.

Kat 9:06

So are there specific energy centers that are related to, specific ailments that if I were to have a headache, I can think, "Oh, it maybe it is my

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 9:16

root

Kat 9:16

chakra." I'm just making that up, you know, but, like, something like that.

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 9:19

Yeah. So I mean, I'm an acupuncturist so I always look at things, you know, with that lens. But there are a lot of healing arts, right? So, traditional Chinese medicine and really in a lot of different medicines that use that paradigm is that we have systems that relate to our environment, you know? So in Chinese medicine, the liver is responsible for storing the blood. So a lot of menstrual issues can be resolved by managing the energy of the liver meridian. So headaches, same thing. I'm looking at actually even liver for headaches, especially if they're premenstrual, right? I'm also looking at potential, deficiencies, and that's where my w- my Western background might come together with my Eastern background, which is I'm gonna check your blood sugar, I'm gonna check your hydration, I'm gonna check your sodium levels. But I'm also ask you questions more about, your menstrual cycle, your sleep cycle, looking for the underlying differentiation of what the pattern might be really representing on a core level.

Kat 10:29

Okay. So then how did this ultimately lead you to your,

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 10:34

philosophy.

Kat 10:35

Around beauty? Was there a certain point where you were like, "I, I'm practicing acupuncture, but it's not helping me with, aging or what I'm seeing in the mirror

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 10:45

Right, right, right. Yeah, well, I did have that mirror moment. That's exactly what happened, right? So,

Kat 10:50

Okay.

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 10:50

that, that mirror moment was, at 49, I inadvertently caught myself in the mirror and went, "Oh, my gosh, what is... What am I looking at? Wh- when did that happen?" When I've been doing everything right. I had been... You know, I eat well, exercise get treatments, you know, make sure I'm hydrated, drink clean water and conscious of my environment. And what I realized is is that I do a lot of emotional work in my practice as well because what I say is, "Issues are in the tissues." So a lot of the underlying even our chronic illnesses, there's usually an underlying emotional component. Well, our face is actually the mirror of those underlying issues. And so the muscles of the face are are all about our emotions, right? Body, the heavy lifters, the face, emotions. So if we're under stress, we show it in our face. If we're angry, we show it in our face. If we're afraid, we show it in our face. So these muscles on our face are a reflection and they keep score. So what happens is, if we don't release certain emotional patterns, they start patterning on our face. So what I call, like, the lines of divorce or the lines of disappointment in our, just in our life they start showing up on our face. As I dug deeper into that, the reflection really is, those muscles serve an absolute purpose on how we communicate with other people and how we perceive our environment. So the obvious one is the fear, that if we look at someone who is having an experience that they're hugely afraid, or if we kind of like, "What's going on in this environment? I see people who are afraid," we aren't actually getting that information to our, prefrontal cortex right away. What happens is that we micro mirror that person's expressions of fear, and it goes to our emotional brain, our mammalian brain, and it tells us, "Oh, someone's experiencing fear. This person's experiencing fear based on the muscles that I'm contracting mimicking that person." It's called micro mirroring, right? And they're called mirror neurons. So the... what happens is that when we micro mirror and we get that loop- Saying fear, now we can reflect that back. "Oh, what, you know, I, I, I'm sensing you're having some fear. What's going on?" So it's this loop that is an unexpected loop that people don't talk about and it's exactly why freezing the muscles of the face is not helpful for our communication, is because those muscles are necessary for us to relate to other people and to understand what they're feeling or what we're interpreting them as feeling. there's key areas in life where this really shows up. One is an infant is all mir- their brain is all mirror neurons. They're learning, right? So that's why people, like, make facial expressions and coo at them and laugh, and then the baby mimics that, and r- and the whole process is them learning how to associate muscle contractions with a, an emotional component, like emotional state. So you can see when you get distracted, and I don't know if anyone's ever noticed this or not, but I find it absolutely fascinating 'cause I have infants in my practice. And the mom will be talking to him, and then she'll start talking to me, and the infant will, like, scowl, going, "What's going on? How am I interpreting this? Does Mom still love me? Are we still happy? Are we still good?" You know what I mean? So it's like this constant facial expressions trying to interpret it the environment. And so that little brain is learning, learning, and those connectivities of the micro neurons are, are growing, and those do not finish growing until 21 as a girl and 25 as a boy. So a teenager who definitely needs who needs to have that ability to read or learn how to read maybe their mom's expression so that they can interpret what's going on and know whether they're safe or responding appropriately, 'cause they're gauging their safety all the time. what happens when a teen is in a situation where they are looking at faces that are communicating, that have, like, Botox or fillers, you know, so that they're not moving, what happens is that in a functional MRI, watching... the teen's watching these videos, their brain actually fires up as if they are under stress, under, extreme stress.

Kat 15:37

Oh.

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 15:38

this red light in the area that just is like, "Danger, danger, danger," because they can't interpret it, so they're confused. So it's our job as parents to make sure that our kids are getting that information. And when you think about social media, we are losing that because they're on social media all the time- and trying to get information about the person that they're listening to, but they're not seeing it. So it's an interesting dynamic on what's going on with our teens with that. You know, another area where that makes a difference is maybe in our 50s or 60s that we're back on the dating scene, and what happens is that we think to ourself, you know, maybe recently divorced, "Maybe I should be doing Botox because smooth skin equals equals beauty, and that means that someone will be attracted to me," because that's our beauty industry and our social media that reinforces that. So what happens is that the person who they've maybe been talking over the phone, they finally meet them in person, and that date might not go how they think it will because the other person sitting across from them, if they have frozen their facial expressions, is that we aren't giving them the signals, "I'm interested. I'm really interested." These are all non-verbal communication. We're about 70% non-verbal in our communication. So we're missing that communication,

Kat 17:09

it's really counterintuitive in the sense of, well, first of all, thinking-- I was just thinking about COVID and how, you know, everybody was wearing face masks, and I do remember that there was a lot of dialogue around children

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 17:21

Yeah.

Kat 17:21

able to read expressions and develop their emotional,

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 17:25

Intelligence.

Kat 17:26

like Yes, emotional intelligence and then on the s- and then on the subject of Botox and the counter-narrative or the narrative around, smooth skin being beautiful, but yet not being able to communicate, it's funny because with beauty culture, you know, we have this anti-aging, wrinkle-fighting narrative, right? And freezing expression, and so take us back then to that mirror moment that you had where you, noticed your f wrinkles on your face, your aging. at that point, like what were you, what were you

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 17:55

thinking and how did that.

Kat 17:57

Lead you to your philosophy around functional aesthetics and your skincare

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 18:02

Yeah When I had that mirror moment, and I started processing that and communicating about that, you know, people were actually saying, "Well, maybe it's time to do Botox." And I'm like, "I'm in holistic healthcare. This is a really scary concept for me." Although I get it, I understand why people do it, based on the social, pressures. But I just couldn't align with it personally. So I think what I really did was just kind of go back to my practice and, and really evaluate that whole process of, you know, what are the muscles in the face for, and, and that just compounded why I would not want to freeze the muscles in my face. But we all wanna look great, so I think it's not about not doing anything. I think it's not, you know, I'm not gonna say, you know, "Go use soap on your face because it really doesn't make a difference. You just shouldn't, you know, you shouldn't care." I'm not saying that at all. I think how we present ourselves is a representation of, who we are, and I think that, there's a lot of things that can make us energetically feel great and look great just, you know, vitality wise. But I also knew that with the muscles being contracted on the face, that we hadn't released those, it really drove me to the idea that we really needed, natural face lift system a natural tool that releases those muscles and just restores our best version of ourselves and also just a little grace a, a strong shift, and I'm, wanting to make sure that we're creating that full culture, that I think men don't want synthetic. I think men want people who are more natural and more expressive. Now, are there gonna be always be men who, want the, you know, the perfect female, if you will, on their arm? Yes. But you know, I do feel like there's a huge shift here. There's a huge shift of people wanting natural. So it was, for me, it was about- Finding how to be the best version of yourself. And also, if you're releasing those muscles, you're releasing some traumas as well. So it's really helpful to be able to release those muscles on the face so that you can, feel happier really. You know, when you think about it, if we have chronic muscle tension in certain areas, our brain is picking that information up constantly and replaying those scenarios. But if we can release those and really think about like our inside smile and you know, when they s- have said laughter is the best medicine, there's truth to that, right? Because it releases the muscle in our face that are, dragging us down, if you will.

Kat 20:46

On that kind of the same token, if you freeze your face

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 20:49

Mm-hmm.

Kat 20:49

and you don't really feel those emotions, then does that translate into you being like emotionally numb or emotionally not... like you're not feeling a lot? You could technically then in theory be a less happy or maybe just not happy or sad, just kind of a neutral type of person?

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 21:06

Right, right. So I'm, I'm sure there is research on this, but it's also there's a lot of subjective to it as well. But I,

Kat 21:16

Right.

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 21:17

do feel when you think about like people who are happy, oh, they're always upbeat and happy, these people smile a lot, right? Or if you say, "Well, they seem really depressed," or, "They seem really down all the time," it's because of the muscles that are contracted on their face. That concept of fake it till you make it, like if that is smile until you can smile naturally, There's actually something to that. And I know that even in research and this is a little interesting, concept is that the psychiatric department is doing Botox on the 11s to decrease depression, And it has been successful, right? Because the muscle, tension between the eyes signaling the brain. So you numb those, and it stops signaling the brain in the same way. But now let's look at the ongoing effect of that, Not that short term, "Hey, my depression seems amazingly better," but now let's go into, "But I'm still not connecting with people in a way that is meaningful," Because as humans, we really crave connectivity. We are, tribal in our sense of, we like to belong. And so not having that kind of experience It decreases our level of, personal fulfillment and joy.

Kat 22:37

Yeah, of course. so then you came up with the idea of functional aesthetics or how did... So when did your skincare line come about?

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 22:45

So, the skincare line with the Natural Facelift system was about having a tool that I use energy medicine like I did have in my practice. I use energy medicine and imprint the specific frequencies for healing when we talked about subtle energy fields and where healing comes from. So I've taken that information and imprinted it into the tool, and every skincare has a little green bead in it that's also imprinted with frequencies, and those frequencies are about balancing all of those acupuncture meridians that you're touching with your wand on your face and releasing those muscles as well as you know, activating those, or hyperactivating those active ingredients that are giving the results that they are. I did a third-party independent study with Dr. Pugliese, and after 15 days, he called me and said, "I have no idea how these women are getting these results. They look like they've had mini facelifts." And he knew nothing about the frequencies. He was just thinking, like, "What do you have going on here?" But it really kind of emphasized for me at that time, okay, I can take this out and to the market and have people do this at home in the comfort of their own home for seven, seven and a half minutes a day and have the results that I was seeing when I was using that in my clinic. That started the skincare system, what I call is bioadaptive skincare. It, unfolds how your body needs it to, at whatever level your body needs care. And then that facelift system with the wand, and I have a lot of other tools at this point, too eye mask, a body stone, sculpting stone. But then as I was really fully developing it, it was really coming full circle that it was what we're doing is functional aesthetics. Functional medicine, right? And in my practice, I do functional- Supplements are functional nutrients, right? So I'm not gonna give your body something that replaces a hormone. I'm gonna give your body something that builds that gland to help it produce that hormone or that whatever, you know, information that it needs so that it can act on its own. It's a lot on the same theory that I talk about with acupuncture. I'm treating you so your body is being reinforced so that it can learn how to function on its own. That's the same kind of philosophy with the functional aesthetics, which is that it's not about replacing, it's not about substituting, it's not about pushing against, it's about going with nature and giving your body the information that it needs through that energy system to be able to heal and be able to really show up in the best version of yourself.

Kat 25:26

Can you walk us through an example? So if somebody were to come to you or if someone were to use it at home, what are the specific points of the face that can help with, releasing some of the fine lines and the wrinkles?

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 25:37

So it's a very specific protocol. This is the wand. What I'm doing is lymphatic drainage first. It seems counterindu- intuitive to go down. Everybody who talks about skincare, it's up, up, up, up, up. But this body has a lot of pumping muscles that help to drain the lymphatics. The face doesn't have that, so we end up getting very puffy, very heavy in the jaw, very toxic large pores, things like that. That's all the toxicity in our face. So lymphatic drainage is first. It's about dumping the toxins out of the cells so the cells can start utilizing nutrients in a completely different way. So the first part of it is opening those lymphatics and doing a downward motion very, very gently to detox. Then it's about lengthening the muscles that are contracted, which are the ones around the neck, and the mouth, and between the eyes, and the forehead, relaxing those muscles so that when we do use the energy of the wand to pop up those muscles so that they can actually spring back that vitality, you're actually able to do that because you've released all of those muscles that are dragging your face down, losing that jawline, creating the, what we very, you know, nicely call the puppet lines and Marietta lines and the the furrow between the eyebrows and the lines across the forehead.

Kat 26:57

Gotcha. I imagine it's challenging to educate, the customer or the client on how to do this. Do you have videos or how would you... Or you just kind of show them in person once or?

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 27:07

It actually is not as, complicated as it sounds, but I am all about support, support, support. You know, you're investing in yourself, you're investing in True Energy, which means that I'm... I show up. So every month I do a f- webinar and on the webinar people ask tons of questions about whether it's protocol, whether it's about ingredients, whether it's about, you know, skincare. I mean, all kinds of different things that we go over. But protocol is one of the things that, hey, if you're having trouble here, what else can I do? You know, those are the questions that people ask that I answer on that monthly webinar. The other is, is that I absolutely have videos on the back of the box. There's a QR code, and the QR code has videos. I also, on my website it will say, videos, and it'll show you how to do the protocols. I also in like the first email I send out, or maybe the second, in one of the emails I send out a video. It's a nine-minute video 'cause I'm going slow, and I'm talking about all of the different areas that you're going to... You know, how many times, what it should feel like, how to hold the wand. So I'm very, very hands-on in that way.

Kat 28:18

And how immediate would somebody see the results?

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 28:21

That's a great question because there are some variables. So the variables are sometimes age, sometimes not. We had a woman who was 85 that did the protocol for 30 days, and she looked no doubt, not even my words, 20 years younger. I could not believe how well she did at her age. But usually... the thing that shows up fastest is if you have a lot of toxins and you've got like a heavy jowl line, a heavy, heavy through the neck and, you know, the lower cheeks, that's usually toxins. That within, four to 10 days look completely different. The things that you'll see over the next couple of weeks is the more defined jawline, the relaxing of the muscles, the popping of the cheeks. Things that might take a little bit longer are dark spots, because I'm addressing them more from underlying. There's no bleach. It's all-natural. Everything, all the skincare is all-natural. So there's nothing toxic in it. So when I'm addressing things like dark spots or sunspots what I'm addressing is I'm addressing the melanin clusters underneath the skin, which are usually due to stress, inflammation and excess sun sometimes, so that when the new skin cells come to the surface of the skin, they're, you know, beautiful and not melanin clustered and don't come up dark. Whereas a lot of the bleaches will, bleach the skin in 10 days, and as soon as you go out in the sun, they come back or they're worse. So there are certain things that, that I would rather have it take a little bit longer and have those kind of results rather than, instantaneous. So there's some variables, but most people see changes within the first couple of weeks. I ask that people do the protocol every day for 30 days because we have a cellular memory. And so that cellular memory enables the body to learn that in a memory kind of way, so that when you... It's like muscle memory, too, like working out. So that when you get to that 30 days and you wanna do, twice a week or once a week or three times a week, your muscle memory is there and it still will maintain that.

Kat 30:23

And what about the people who may have used injectables

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 30:26

Yeah.

Kat 30:27

Botox? Like, can they use this in conjunction? Or how would you recommend somebody transitioning away from injectables?

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 30:34

Great question, because that's a lot of people, right? And like I said it, before is I totally get why people, are drawn to it. There's a lot of pressure. So I totally support the transition. I do still have some people who say, "Well, I still use Botox," but, you know, maybe, once a year or once every six months. But ultimately, more what I find is is that when they start doing the protocol and they realize that they, the time period has really gone longer and longer and longer, they're like, "I can stop using Botox. This is great." So it is amazing when you actually even look at the results because the difference is more vitality. when you're doing Botox, it flattens the muscle, But if you're doing the protocol where you're decreasing the muscle tension that are causing the lines that you're looking to get rid of what happens is that we're creating more vitality in the face. So I had this woman w- who I convinced, She had Botox and fillers, and I said, "Just do one half of your face for a week." She did half of her face for a week, and the side that she did the True Energy Natural Facelift system actually looked better than the side that she had the Botox and fillers. Both had Botox and fillers, right? But she was, like, defining that jawline that... Or, or that cheekbone. Defining that cheekbone is not really an easy thing to do with Botox because you're relaxing the muscles, right? actually, the shape of her face was more youthful overall because it wasn't laxed. So it's a nice easy way to transition without feeling like you're, giving up something that you feel like, works for you or makes you feel beautiful.

Kat 32:16

Is that because it's naturally or more naturally bringing out what your, what your beauty would be? And, and Botox and fillers is... Well, Botox, I guess, relaxes the wrinkles, but fillers is like an additive. It's like adding something that's not there

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 32:29

Right.

Kat 32:30

Your system is around bringing out the true nature of your beauty

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 32:34

Yes, I would say that the true nature of your beauty is exactly what we want because it's our authentic self, like you said, when you do fillers, you're adding a foreign substance into your body, and you're actually injecting it between layers of the skin and the fascia, or the fascia and the muscle. And so you're actually creating separation. When that dissolves or it shifts, The long-term effect, is not, is, well, I should say, is just beginning to be seen more transparently, because peopl are doing more and more fillers than they used to do and I've seen, I've been practicing for 40 years, I've seen fillers migrate, I've seen them thicken, I've seen them I've seen them do all kinds of crazy things that people are like, "Now I have to get them removed," which means I've gotta cut the skin 'cause they're not no longer dissolvable, like especially the ones around the mouth. So I do see a lot of the adverse effects.

Kat 33:38

Yeah. That's so scary 'cause it's... Oh, again, like you're going in there because you think it's going to make you more beautiful, and then many years down the road, you find out that it just changes the way you look, and not in a good

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 33:49

No, I know, right? and you can see it too because it's not natural, so when you smile it draws lines and tension because it doesn't move the same way the, our muscles and our skin does. With the Botox you're also in- injecting toxins in your skin as well. And you're injecting it into a nerve, or, to make that muscle not move. And this is the new research, when you think that it's gonna stay exactly where it is it's not the case. now the research is showing that it does travel down the nerve into the brain. So we, you know, I think a lot of the new research is really revealing the depth of what we're doing when we are pushing against nature.

Kat 34:33

So where do you see, the future of beauty going now that... Do you feel like more and more maybe it's more functional practitioners or maybe it's a blend of beauty brands that are going to be focused on energetics as part of beauty?

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 34:47

I think that the profession follows the demand, we have this, like, vicious loop of expectations based on something that's not real. We're talking about social media, and even how the beauty industry pressure, you know, pressure is. I definitely am seeing even the beauty industry creating some lines because they're gonna keep up and offer something that goes along with whatever the trend is. And the trend is, for example with GLP-1s there's now skincare advertisement that says, "Hey, this will tighten your skin, if you're a GLP-1 user," So there's all of these things that are saying, "You're doing damage by doing all of these injectables, but here, here's the solution." When you ask where, is the trend going, I think it's up to up to us to join in a culture that changes the expectations of- people's unreal- l- I should say unrealistic expectations of what aging is and what aging, how it should be honored, right? not about erasing our memories, not about erasing, you know, everything that we've learned or experienced or, our authenticity. And yes, you should protect your skin, but ultimately don't want to go back to 20, I don't wanna go back to 30. I don't wanna go back to 40. I don't even wanna go back to 50 when it comes to what I bring to the table in my age at 65. I'm 66 this year, So what I bring to the table is my podium, if you will, It's my stance. And if I'm changing my face, I'm not living in an authentic way. And so I really feel like it's about a culture and people being willing to jump on that culture because I think that there are significant others, if we're looking for validation and things like that, I'm seeing more and more people validating someone being naturally real, in a natural way.

Kat 36:53

No, I'm seeing that too, and I think maybe it is, now a function of,

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 36:54

like, the future generations, like gen Z and maybe the the belief around freezing your face and things like that are going to kind of go away based on which cohorts are entering into the beauty world, Well And I think actually you make a good point, right? It's the generations that are coming in, and if we can educate the generations that are coming in and support them in their authenticity, then that's gonna be huge because- already we have not been supported in our authenticity, and I'm at the airport, I interview if you will, people in their early 20s, even their teens, right? Where I say, "What do you think about Botox? Would you get Botox?" And they're young, and people will say, "Oh, you don't wanna get Botox until you start getting some lines and wrinkles, and then you'll get Botox." But not if we reinforce that who they are is perfect. How they show up is perfect in its own way. And I think that we're getting a bigger divide. Like, there's parents who are encouraging their daughters to get Botox for preventative, I don't even understand how that is how that even translates as preventative wrinkles. They're losing the vitality of their face by freezing it when they're at the most vital place, right? So it just seems so counterintuitive.

Kat 38:15

You know, that, that preventative theory was something that I also heard when I was in my early 20s,

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 38:21

yeah.

Kat 38:21

was seeing some friends who were

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 38:23

It's

Kat 38:23

Botox at that

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 38:25

age

Kat 38:25

you know, none of us had wrinkles in our early 20s. I was told too that it was preventative, and I don't really know where that started.

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 38:31

We know exactly

Kat 38:31

hear it today,

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 38:32

where it's going, right? The people who

Kat 38:38

Right. Right. So for the women at home right now Maybe she can try your skincare, but is there anything else that she can do just kind of on her

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 38:47

You know, sometimes it's about also looking in the mirror with a different eye, right? So when we look in the mirror, there's no doubt... I mean, we look in the mirror, we, like, pull up on the sides of our face, we're very, very critical when we look our- look at ourselves in the mirror. That does not help. But if we were to look in the mirror and actually honor our face, honor our expression, and start by thinking about relaxing those areas of tension and having what I call an inside smile, if you think about it, if you close your eyes right now and you think about you know, smiling on the inside, you can feel that it's really hard to smile on the inside and still hold tension in your jaw and, your lower area here. So that in itself is a great practice because it's awareness. We're unaware of our tension. on many a times I've said to women, "Okay, I want you to if you work from your computer, put a mirror over your computer, and when you're working, glance up at yourself periodically." And this is what you'll find. You are holding tension in your face in the areas that you are also criticizing yourself for. So sometimes awareness is a huge part of that, where you can go, "Oh, wow, I didn't realize I was clenching my jaw or pulling down on the corners of my mouth." And this area right here is where we hold a lot of tension, as well as between the eyebrows. So being able to catch yourself when you're concentrating or catch yourself when you're under intense, focus is a huge awareness because you can start thinking about relaxing your face, relaxing your mouth, relaxing your jaw, relaxing your teeth, your jaw itself, right? That TMJ.

Kat 40:33

when I was growing up my mom used to say that I shouldn't, massage my face because that can cause more wrinkles. Is that a myth? That must be.

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 40:41

that's where I said, you know, the, that going down was kind of counterintuitive 'cause everything you've been told to pull up. And I think that there are some really kind of bizarre things that are out there. Like, there's a, a technique that's, like, pulling the skin. I'm like, "I am not pulling my skin away from my fascia. That sounds like a really bad idea." But if we're talking about, the areas of tension and massaging those, you're massaging the muscles. You're not actually pulling your skin. You're just in a small rotation massaging the muscles that are the muscles of tension, but we don't always realize where those are, Even right along that jawline. What's true is that there is an enzyme called collagenase which breaks down collagen. So if we are dragging our face down or like I used to say, "I wonder if I'm sleeping with my face pulled down," right? "on this one side." If we're pulling down on our face, then eventually, as in gravity, the collagenase will start breaking down collagen and reforming collagen in that area. But what you're talking about on massaging your face, we're not talking about, rough massage. We're talking about just moving your fingers very slightly to massage the muscles. Same thing with, facial yoga, where you're lengthening and stretching. You know, these are... This is not going to ruin your skin

Kat 42:01

All right. Well, as we wrap up um what's for your company and for you? Like, what are you excited about this year and next,

Cathy Goldstiein, AP 42:08

There's a couple things that I'm really excited about. One is I'm in the process of finishing a book, which is my story in a parable, and I feel like it's a segue into another story for teens or early 20s that really kind of moves the message forward. The other is, is that I am interviewing for a documentary currently called Timeless that I'm looking forward to 'cause it's about being able to have that space of not pushing against nature. The other also really exciting thing is on the horizon is that I'm in the process of creating a program that people will be able to use to help bring awareness to to their patterns and specific exercises to be able to release those. So looking forward to that too.

42:58

Okay, let's get into the takeaways from this conversation. Number one: I think the biggest takeaway for me was really that beauty and how we feel, like our emotions, are way more connected than we realize. Cathy talked about how stress and tension, the stories that we carry about ourselves can show up physically in our faces. I think most of us have experienced moments where stress has shown up on our skin, in our faces, our posture, our expressions, and I always think about, the last few years now that I'm a mom. My husband and I joke about this all the time. before kids, we looked youthful, we felt youthful, and it was almost, immediate after having kids. Like, we had twins, of course, and every day was kind of crazy the first, you know, 18 months. But we definitely think it aged us. I noticed more gray hairs, for sure. Noticed way more fine lines. And yes, of course, we're getting older, but at the same time, emotions, really stressful situations, they definitely, definitely play a part in the way that we look. Number two, aging does not have to be something that we fight. What we're starting to see is more and more conversations around how the goal is not to look younger, but the goal is to appreciate where we are as we age, how to become the most healthiest, vibrant versions of ourselves at, you know, every age, and not trying to look 25, number three, Awareness is key and often comes before real change. Cathy talked about how so much of our tension in our faces is actually around this lack of awareness, We are holding tension, we're clenching our jaws, we're furrowing our brows, we're carrying stress in our bodies, on our faces all day long, and we may not even realize that we're doing that because it's habit. And so this is really just around noticing the patterns and noticing when you carry the most tension. Thanks so much for tuning in today. I know we touched on a lot, but the takeaway that has stayed with me and that I will continue to bring with me is the connection between how we look and how we feel, around authenticity, expression, allowing ourselves to just, embody our truest selves. So much of the beauty conversation really focuses on external things and changing how we look, but what if we really focused more so on how we feel, emotions or stress, the way that we're, you know, living our lives, as a way to reflect that outward onto our appearance? As always, you know, take what resonates with you. Leave the rest. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend who might enjoy it too. And you can also find me on Instagram where I am sharing more conversations and content, around beauty from the inside out, skin as the signal, and also mindset shifts that help us look and feel our best. So feel free to connect with me on Instagram if you haven't already, and Please take care of yourselves. Until next time