Chronic Skin Issues: Is It Your Gut, Hormones, Stress, or Something Else?

EP 57. If you’ve tried eliminating foods, changing skincare products, taking supplements, or you find yourself becoming reliant on steroids or other medications—and yet, your eczema still keeps coming back—how do you figure out what’s actually driving it?

In this episode of Well Done, I sit down with Marie Vollmar, Functional Diagnostic Nutrition Practitioner and founder of The Clear Method, to explore the relationship between chronic skin conditions, topical steroid use, gut health, hormones, stress, and the nervous system. Marie and I share remarkably similar experiences with severe eczema and topical steroid withdrawal, including the physical exhaustion, the emotional toll, and the frustrating search for answers beyond another cream.

Marie explains how functional testing helped her identify patterns she couldn’t see from symptoms alone, and we also discuss what functional tests can and cannot tell you, how to find a credible practitioner, and why healing requires more than supplements alone.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• How long-term topical steroid use may affect the body’s stress-response system
• What topical steroid withdrawal can look and feel like
• Why itching can reinforce the urge to itch and create a difficult mind-skin cycle
• How gut health, cortisol, digestion, and liver function may contribute to chronic skin inflammation
• The two functional tests Marie most often uses to investigate gut and hormonal health
• What functional testing may cost and how to decide whether it’s worth the investment
• What to look for when choosing a functional health practitioner
• Why supplements are only one part of Marie’s five-part approach
• The risks of staying on a highly restrictive elimination diet for too long
• How eczema-prone skin differs from "normal" skin
• What pregnancy, birth, digestion, and the gut microbiome may have to do with eczema in babies and children

Resources:

• Learn more and book a free discovery call with Marie: www.marievollmar.com
• Follow Marie on Instagram: @marievollmar

Guest Bio:

Marie Vollmar is a certified Functional Health Practitioner who helps people heal chronic skin conditions from the inside out.

After a successful first career in tech sales, Marie's own struggle with eczema — and years of being offered only superficial symptom relief — pushed her toward root-cause healing. Today, she combines her personal experience with advanced functional health training, using data and science to uncover the real drivers of chronic skin inflammation and guide clients toward lasting skin health. 

Transcript

Marie 0:00

Itching your skin sends a signal to your brain that actually enforces the urge to itch, which then you itch. So it's really like this constant cycle.

Speaker 0:08

This is well done. A space where we explore the mind skin connection, living in alignment, and what it actually means to live well and look your best. We don't talk about surface level quick fixes here. This is about real insight, practical tools, and learning how to listen to your body. Let's go.

0:22

Hey, Well Beings. Welcome back. I hope everyone is having just the best summer. I am currently on a family vacation in San Diego with my girls and my husband and my husband's family, and just enjoying the sunshine, and I hope you are, too. Today's episode is one that I've wanted to record for a really long time because not only did my guest go through pretty much exactly the same thing that I did, this episode is a really great way to frame up and understand how functional diagnostic testing can be particularly helpful for skin problems. In this conversation with my guest, Marie Vollmar, who is a functional diagnostic nutrition practitioner, we will be talking about steroid use, what's actually happening in your body when you use them long term, and the specific tests that you can take to finally get real answers. Also, if you're a parent or thinking about becoming one, stay with us to the end because we do talk about eczema in babies and kids, and how it can be linked to pregnancy and birth itself. And of course, I don't wanna put more pressure on moms, we already have enough of that, but it is just something to think about and be aware of

Speaker 2 1:23

Before we get started with the episode, I would love to keep hanging out with you, so if you are not yet subscribed to this podcast, please hit the subscribe button or follow the podcast wherever you get your pods, whether you're on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple. It really helps the show reach more people and reach you when we have a new episode. Okay, now let's get into today's episode

Kat 1:42

welcome back to Well Done. My guest today is Marie Vollmar, a functional diagnostic nutrition practitioner, or FDNP for short, and the founder of The Clear Method, a testing-based approach to healing chronic skin conditions like eczema and acne from the inside out. Marie herself spent years battling severe eczema before she found an approach that actually worked for her, and that experience is what shaped how she now helps her clients. So instead of recommending more creams and steroids or playing the guessing game, she works with people to test what's actually happening in their bodies, in the gut, hormones, liver, their nervous systems, so they can treat the root cause instead of just managing their symptoms. Of course, this is a topic that's very, close to home for me because I went through a very similar story as Marie. So I'm really excited to dig in today. Marie, welcome to the show.

Marie 2:28

Hi, Kat. Thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited to talk to you today about everything related to skin, eczema, and our journeys Battling this incurable, skin disease that we both had

Kat 2:38

I wanna start with your own decision to stop using topical steroid creams, because I really understand this on a personal level. I was using topical steroids for over 30 years, What really made you decide to stop? What was it about using those steroids that no longer was working for you?

Marie 2:54

there are several things that come to my mind. First of all, I remember vividly this one experience when I left the dermatologist's office with yet another steroid cream. This one, this time it was the Protopic, you know, a, a stronger one that you may know. And I remember applying it, you know, being, like, somewhat happy that I potentially found a solution for yet another flare. And I went outside, because I forgot, I think, that you shouldn't go outside into the direct sunlight once you applied the cream. And I remember, like, my skin burning, and I really thought, my skin on my face was, burning off when I was walking outside. So this, started, reflections, in my mind, okay, what is actually in this cream that it, like, stings so badly and that it makes me feel like literally like I'm losing, my skin? I still continued to use the cream though afterwards. And then I think, as I went on, that must have been maybe a couple of months later, I just felt like, you know, the flares didn't go away anymore. The creams ultimately, I felt like, lost some of their, effectiveness. And this is when I to look around a bit on the internet like, can it happen that the cream stopped working? Why do steroid creams

Kat 4:03

嗯。

Marie 4:03

working? This rabbit hole of research. And then I saw pictures creeping up on the internet of TSW, and I thought, "Oh, that's never gonna be me." It was, I think, like, this, like, silent process, and then I moved to another country, and I didn't have a dermatologist, available, when I needed to have, like, an, a renewal of of my prescription. then I think I just stopped because I didn't have an alternative, and that's how I rolled then into this whole experience that you were mentioning of the withdrawal symptoms, et cetera.

Kat 4:32

once you stopped did you start thinking you were experiencing topical steroid withdrawal? And what did you do from there?

Marie 4:39

Yes, because I guess a typical experience of many of us that go through TSW, topical steroid withdrawal, is that you get like flares and patches all over the body where or- originally I never had eczema. So that's when I realized, okay, maybe I am actually through it, right? And just like burning experience everywhere, red, really bad inflammation or maybe even vasodilation, I don't know, because the skin gets so red. Blood is being pumped there, like all over the place. very quickly I was in this cycle of like very red, itchy, inflamed, hot and then, okay, it's drying a bit. It gets super, super flaky. I remember like I had to vacuum the bed like in the morning because so much like dead skin

Kat 5:20

Oh my gosh

Marie 5:21

was like around me. So yeah, then that's when I knew, okay, I am probably in what I expected or I never expected I would go through that because I didn't use that much or, you know, not huge amounts of the creams, at least that's what I thought. But ultimately, it really adds up on the long term, the long term steroid use. And I guess obviously the quantity also plays in, but it's, I think it's more like the duration. How many months, years have you been applying those creams?

Kat 5:50

Yeah, I think what, what most people don't really understand too is that I think it really messes up with your own body's ability to regulate inflammation on your skin, right? All of a sudden you stop using the creams and then your skin is like, "What, what should I be doing? How do I, fix it?" And then it starts to go through all those symptoms.

Marie 6:08

Yes, actually beyond the, the skin, but that's exactly the impact of

Kat 6:14

Yes

Marie 6:14

use in the body. And that's what I feel like we are not Dermatologists don't talk about that enough, in my opinion, at least in Europe, or at least the experience I made,

Kat 6:23

No, they don't in the US either

Marie 6:25

about-- what is actually the impact of applying those creams beyond the topical layer where you just like innocently think, "I'm just applying a cream." And by the way, that also obviously applies to any other product that you apply on your skin. It's not just about topical steroid creams. Because actually long-term steroid use, as you mentioned, has an impact on the immune system. It actually like shuts it down because we are signaling constantly an information to our body that it obviously reads, and based on that, it changes its behavior. But what I think is even more important is the impact on the HPA, so essentially the stress axis that those creams have because it's a cortisol cream, so it has an impact on how our body re-responds to the cortisol production, which we need. We need cortisol to, you know, lower inflammation. on the long term, cortisol can really be detrimental to the body and breaking down all different kinds of systems beyond, just the, the stress system per se. and even more importantly we lose the resilience to stress, and I think that's what we then feel in the long term that those creams really have an impact on our nervous system, our stress resilience and simply on the way our adrenals work, which are responsible for building cortisol in the body.

Kat 7:40

I'm really glad you mentioned that because We think about topicals or topical fixes, topical solutions, and we don't think about the long-term impact that it actually has on all these different parts of our bodies. So if you could go back a little bit, you mentioned the HPA, which is... for the listener who is unclear, what is the HPA? How is it-- How does that affect cortisol production, your body? Just to give people context.

Marie 8:02

The HPA axis, so the hypothalamus pituitary axis is essentially the axis that really regulates all of your hormones and how your body responds, for example, to stress. Through the axis the body gets different signals from the brain to the pituitary on which hormones to produce, for example. If this axis is dysfunctional, your body is not able to produce the right amount of the right hormones where needed. And so by overstimulating, for example, the HPA axis or by giving the body a signal all the time that, okay, we have enough cortisol because we're applying it from the outside, ultimately the body stops producing cortisol by itself, which all works fine until you stop the cream and then there is, you know, this lack of cortisol because the body actually lost or at least, weakened its ability to produce the cortisol via the adrenals by itself. That's the first step of this whole like domino effect that then starts from there

Kat 8:59

Yeah, it really is a domino effect. It impacts so much of the way that your body functions. Let's go back to your story. I know we kind of went off a little bit, but at that point, did you start thinking about other practitioners or therapies that you could look into versus going back to your dermatologist? And then how long did it take you to actually heal?

Marie 9:16

Yeah. Even before that, I, you know, I was trying to investigate a bit into, what is my gut health doing because I just suspected there must be something going on. But anyway, when I was deep in TSW, I for sure started to re-enter this, like, rabbit hole of, you know, trying to see all different kinds of specialists. I remember I went to this, one magic healing lady that wanted to work, generationally, trauma, which certainly, you know, she had a point, but definitely didn't get me anywhere really visibly at least. I did some acupuncture sessions, which did, provide some relief for the, like, very, very present inflammation. But obviously, I mean, I'm saying obviously, at least in my case, it didn't really go to the root of the problem. I did see different other doctors in conventional medicine, other dermatologists, the answers were always the same. You know, just why did you stop the creams? They worked, they worked fine for you. Just go back on them everything will kind of go back to normal essentially. And then I found this one practitioner I did lymphatic drainage because I felt like I need to get something out of my body. It's My intuition told me I need to, get rid of this, stagnant, I don't know, inflammation that is inside of my body. she actually was a or is still a functional medicine practitioner. And with her then I started to do this work, the inner work I guess ultimately on looking on what are the root causes that actually drive this inflammation to come out-- to show up on the outside, to come up on my skin

Kat 10:43

what did you end up discovering?

Marie 10:44

A lot of things. First of all I feel like many people know today somewhere, that skin health is perhaps linked to more than your skin. But what does that actually mean, right? And for me, it was really enlightening to do all these functional labs that we did together, and then to see black and white what are actually the imbalances that I have that are part of the story of why my skin was so inflamed. So for me, it was a really, really flat cortisol curve going back to, you know, the HPA axis. usually, your cortisol curve should be high in the morning because that's when you wake up, right? the body produces cortisol, that's what actually wakes you up. And then it goes down the curve throughout, you know, noon, afternoon, and it goes all the way smoothly down in the evening because that's when melatonin is highest, and the cortisol and melatonin are kind of the opposite. So mine was completely flat, which also explained, the symptoms that I had besides this burning skin, the fatigue, the sleep issues yeah, possibility to not like switch off my mind. I was like really tired but wired. I don't know if you know this feeling of being like constantly like on. That was one thing. We also saw a lot of imbalances in my, gut health, so digestion, the detoxification capabilities of my liver, all these little things that, that then explains why my body is simply also not able to get rid of all these toxins that are inside of it, and then why the body is pushing them out through the skin instead of, for example, via the bowel movements or urine

Kat 12:17

Right. I do wanna get into the specific tests after, but I wanna jump back a little bit to when you were experiencing all of this, because stress also plays a huge part in how you view your body and your skin. Let's talk a little bit about the mind-skin connection and what you were going through emotionally, mentally as you were going through the steroid withdrawal.

Marie 12:40

Yeah. I wasn't doing very well mentally because I was similar to you working in a, client-facing role. So I was in tech sales and kind of ironically working mainly with skincare brands.

Kat 12:54

嗯

Marie 12:54

so, you know, a job where, I guess, appearance is somewhat important. And being exposed in like face-to-face meetings, having these really uncomfortable, teary skin, especially the flakiness. I think that's what still haunts me from time to time, you know, when you go somewhere and you leave those skin flakes on like your computer, on the desk where you're sitting. and all of that added, in my case, you know, to even more stress. "Okay, this is out of my control. What can I do to control this?" remember these like moments when you're awake at night and I'd put on like the flash, you know, and trying to look at my skin, like what's going on, because it was itching so much. Trying to... as if I could control it by like looking at it. And then I feel like this ultimately started this cycle of "Okay, my skin is so bad. Itching. Okay, my skin is even worse. Itching even more." So, for sure the, like mental health at this point was very, very bad, which ultimately also led me to, you know, quitting the job and deciding I cannot continue, do both. I cannot try to like get out of this and nine to five. Because also TSW is exhausting, like from an energy perspective,

Kat 14:09

Yeah

Marie 14:10

is really putting everything into this inflammation. So you're literally burning, which at least in my experience, really drains all the rest of energy that you actually have in your body

Kat 14:22

I completely relate because I had that same... Well, first the, the stress of going into meetings and thinking everybody was staring at my skin and it flaking off, and then to your point, I would leave a little trail of skin flakes on the desk chair, on my computer, and wanting to turn off my video camera every time we had a meeting online. But you said you left your job, but how else did you stop, I guess, obsessing over your skin? What was it that helped you with the stress mindset?

Marie 14:50

Yeah. I think it was for sure when I started to work with the practitioner and, you know, she explained to me what happens, what is cortisol even, like, what does it mean also your mind if you're constantly stressed about it. And that's for sure when I started to, you know, kind of put the pieces together, and then I did some research myself, and found some, I don't know, scary, weird information, I mean, scientific information that I found weird, that, for example, if you itch, it always sends a signal to your brain which actually reinforces this urge to itch. So it's really like this, constant loop. Itching your skin sends a signal to your brain that actually enforces the urge to itch, which then you itch. So it's really like this constant cycle. And I guess my mom, I remember, she told me already when I was younger that, "You're so stressed out." these, sentences that you hear when you're an eczema person.

Kat 15:43

हम्म

Marie 15:45

also, I was just so exhausted that I couldn't do anything else but, slow down. And then, I don't know how, but I stumble upon this mindfulness-based stress reduction MBSR meditation course. I don't know if you know. It's a quite well-known meditation program, which I started to do. And kind of through that because we had these, like, weekly appointments with the group of people that did it, same course with me I started to really sit down every day for 10, 20 minutes, and that's really how I got into this practice of taking care of my mental health, of my mind as well. And that really threw, you know, the accountability because there were other people that were also doing it as well that also had some issues. f- It also helped me to not feel, like, so alone on my little island of my struggles, but really to, share with other people about their mental or physical health struggles within that group of meditation people really helped me

Kat 16:41

Yeah, support is very important, especially for something like TSW and chronic skin conditions of any kind. I don't... I think if you don't have it, you don't really, you can't really relate, right, to feeling ashamed and embarrassed of your condition. What were some other things that you discovered? You said your gut. this is a question that I get from people when they have skin conditions, is how do I know if it's a food or, something else that's causing or contributing to the flare? What are some signs, or you just have to get tested in order to really know?

Marie 17:09

So I think there are some signs, but I think you also need to be very body aware and, listening to yourself in order to see those signs. So what I mean, how do you feel after you eat a very protein-rich or how do you feel after you eat a very fatty meal, for example? Do you really pay attention to that? I don't know. I certainly didn't, you know. I just took it for granted perhaps that I'm somewhat bloated after a certain type of meal. So I think that's already one thing you can look out for, for example, when it comes to your digestion. How do you feel after a meal? Do you feel energized or do you feel like you need to take a nap? And there are other things that I saw in myself, for example, you know, these like really swollen swollen lymph nodes around your ankles, for example, which in hindsight also could have told me, you know, there is a problem of lymph, phallic flow, and then maybe also a, a problem of liver health. but-- and ultimately, obviously, yes, there are possibilities to just kind of trial and error, how do I react to gluten? How do I react to eating dairy, for example? But I think at least on from my own perspective, I would have saved me quite some, you know, time, mental headspace, nights Googling, okay, what's going on, by just seeking the information from tests a bit earlier. And that's why I think functional testing is so amazing because it can really give you some answers of something that you would not have guessed. For example, thought I'm-- was eating the healthiest diet on this planet. I was very cautious already, you know, for years and years and years. Well, it turns out I didn't really have the pa-pancreatic capacity to actually break down the food I was eating, leading ultimately to nutrient leading to nutrient deficiencies. even though, you know, I ate quote-unquote clean, and that's something it's really good to know because I could have saved, all the money that I spent on this organic food and bought something else. besides that that means that your body is really struggling to, you know, keep going, keep going, keep going because you, you need to give the body the relevant nutrients through food, obviously.

Kat 19:16

Yeah. Do you think that that's something that happens even before you s- you went through the TSW? If somebody feels like, well, I actually have never really had symptoms, and then suddenly they start happening, is it a buildup of over time? Like, to your point, your pancreas wasn't able to process. Or is it, Maybe brought on by the TSW?

Marie 19:31

good question. I guess it's always difficult to say which comes first, but how I see it, each and every one of us is, is born with a vital reserve kind of like money. You have- you are born with this money, money bucket, and I'm born with my money bucket, and mine is perhaps lower than yours because that's just, you know, how we are. We are not all equal, I guess. And then through the different things that happen in your life, stress, maybe, you know, a period of you living in a moldy home. I don't know, maybe a period of you eating not very well. All of this takes o- out money of your vital reserve until it gets lower, and lower, and lower. And the lower it gets, the less resilient you are or your body becomes to, out the McDonald's that you ate last week, or the stressful weeks of work that you're, like experiencing every day. and this, I think, is when your body, like, will show up at some point a certain weakness. And if you have a tendency that your weakness is your skin, well, then it will show up through different flares. To answer your question about myself, I know exactly where my problems came from because I was struggling with eating disorder for more than 10 years, which means, you know, I didn't really feed anything to my body, which means that my body is still, you know, tried to obviously survive. But that explained to me why I didn't have almost any, good gut bacteria. I did a lot of opportunistic overgrowth simply because I didn't put the right stuff in my body so that it can actually function properly

Kat 21:04

Wow, You know what's crazy? In college, I did a lot of binge eating, and I think that's probably where it started for me. But it's interesting that you also had that experience. Wow, we're very similar, more similar than I thought

Marie 21:16

I mean, obviously I d- I don't know. I, could look into, is there any scientific proof in that? But what's for sure a fact is that what you eat or what you don't eat alters your gut microbiome, alters

Kat 21:26

Right

Marie 21:27

skin downstream. It alters other stuff as well like digestion capacity, et cetera

Kat 21:33

Okay. I really wanna talk about testing because I think this is, a good way to kind of frame up what are some of the tests that are available to somebody who has a skin problem Or even not a skin problem, but, symptoms that they can't really explain. What were some of the tests you personally took, and then, you know, we can get into the, the specifics?

Marie 21:54

So I did take the, most well-known test in functional medicine when it comes to gut health. So I did take a GI map, is a test that really in details looks into is your good and your bad bacteria landscape looking like, and it also gives you some great information around your digestive and liver health. I also did a Dutch test. A Dutch test is a hormone test, which gave me this information that I mentioned earlier about the really flattened cortisol curve, and also shows other markers around detoxification. but that's something I guess I just did it because I was like, "Okay, I'm, I'm testing, so I'm testing." I did a genetic test to see what kind of deficiencies do I perhaps have genetically when it comes to methylation, et cetera, et cetera. But that's really, like, something that I, I wouldn't recommend to everybody. Those are really the, the two big tests, the GI map and the Dutch test that I did to see what's going on inside of my body. And then later on I did a mycotoxin test essentially, in the second wave of healing I found like there is still, like, a sticky low-grade inflammation that I wanted to address

Kat 23:06

Got it. And so for somebody who is kind of new to this, and they're going to their physician and they're getting blood tests, right? Can you explain how, you know, a functional diagnostic practitioner like yourself or functional a health provider, how they determine what you need? And then also maybe we can touch on the cost. I know you're in France, but I think it would be good to also

Marie 23:24

Jena

Kat 23:25

talk about what this costs versus, you know, other things you could be doing.

Marie 23:29

So one important thing you mentioned is that, you know, a regular blood chemistry panel can be very helpful for functional practitioners as well, because it already gives us an information on where might potential weaknesses be, which then to answer your question, give us an indication, okay, let's look into your gut health. Let's look into your hormonal health. But besides that I think comparison to a standard medical doctor in functional medicine, we work a lot with very personalized intake forms. I have a whole questionnaire that I give to my clients where they actually score and kind of self-reflect, oh, how is my digestion, for example? How is my liver potentially functioning? Do I have I don't know diarrhea, constipation and alternation et cetera, et cetera. So based on this intake form, I then get a good idea of these are perhaps the weaknesses in the specific system of the person, and then I suggest tests to look into those specific systems. But what I think is really important to keep in mind that a conventional medicine doctor will just, look at his or her own specialization. So if you're going to a dermatologist, he will look at your skin. If you're going to a I don't know, dentist, obviously they will look into your mouth. And that's really the difference, you know, this like separation of different spec- versus looking at the body as a whole and seeing all the different systems as an interconnected system, body. And that's also why for everybody, I would recommend a GI map and a Dutch hormonal test simply because it gives us an insight into very few, but very important major systems of the body where often dysfunction happens

Kat 25:12

Okay. Let's talk about the cost. If we can give, if you can give a ballpark kind of idea of what somebody who is going to see someone like you, what what they can expect to, to pay

Marie 25:23

So for the testing the testing is not cheap, and I think it's very important to be, open about that. if you order the GI map and the Dutch test, you're probably around 800, $900 for a testing only. So it is a budget to, dedicate to your health for sure

Kat 25:42

Yeah. But I guess, like, for the listener who thinks, "Oh, that sounds expensive," but, think also about how much money we spend, right, on, like, supplements and products and things we actually don't really know are doing anything for our body or helping us figure it out

Marie 25:56

Yeah, for sure. I think if you think about long-term, how much money have you spent trying to manage your skin condition for the past 10, 20 years, for the creams that you never ended up using, I guess you can, put it into perspective, which I always also obviously try to help my, patients or my clients overcome with in the initial meeting that we have. And that is really an investment in their health, a long-term investment. But knowing exactly where your weaknesses are will then also guide, obviously, you know, where you need to work on, which will then ultimately really bring those results in the short and long term

Kat 26:32

How do you look for a practitioner? That's a question that I get a lot is how does somebody really find somebody that they can trust or what are some signs or positive things that they should look out for for a practitioner versus things that might be red flags?

Marie 26:45

I found my practitioner, you know, doing the lymphatic drainage, and then she actually just had finished her functional medicine degree. But I think other than that, they are on IFM, for example, for the Institute for Functional Medicine. There's a registry of practitioners that are v-validated, I guess, by the IFM. And other than that, what to look out for? Well, for me at least, it goes beyond what is the Instagram appearance because, what do people talk about on Instagram? So it's more about how do they appear on their website? What kind of, client testimonials do they have? do they maybe have experience themselves with the skin condition that they're treating, and then obviously, at least have some form of official training that you can perhaps also look at the website of the specific institute that they were actually graduating from to see does this look, you know, legitimate, or is this just like a short little program that they did, in a month or so. I think we really need to educate ourselves, and luckily, we have, ChatGPT or Claude or whatever to do a quick research of the institute perhaps that they graduated from to see is it actually a legitimate provider of education or not.

Kat 27:49

there different approaches

Marie 27:51

like, reaching out to people that have gone through this. Ask them, "Do you know anybody?" And then, you know, usually I think you can find somebody like that

Kat 27:59

Are there different approaches to how you recommend protocols? So as an example, the person that I went to, I felt was very heavy on recommending supplementation. Not that that's a bad thing. Sometimes obviously your body needs supplements, especially if you're very depleted in some areas. I had to challenge, you know, this person a little bit on like, what else can I do from more of a whole foods or what can I eat? Not just, you know, putting pills or supplements into my body. So should somebody expect to always be recommended supplements?

Marie 28:31

Yes. So as part of at least, you know, my method, supplements are just one fifth essentially of the entire program. so yes, supplements do play a role. The number of supplements obviously also depends on the person, as you mentioned. However, I also think it's always important to keep in mind that the body cannot handle one hundred, or fifty new things that you, that you eat, like three times a day. Especially if you want to address your liver health, for example, which is already overburdened. Well, if you add more stuff in the body, is it going to help? Maybe not necessarily. That being said, I do think actually that, lifestyle changes, even though they are perhaps a bit more difficult to put in place because, you know, taking supplements is kind of like taking just a drug. It's very easy. You don't think about it, and you think it's done. The drug is gonna do what it has to do. Supplements that way, but at least I am convinced and also from my experience, you do need to put in place those lifestyle changes, which also goes, together with like being responsible for your own health. what I mean by lifestyle changes, it's really about diet. can be a short-term, perhaps elimination diet of something that triggers your inflammation. It can be, for example, a low histamine diet for, I don't know, four to six weeks if I feel like histamine is perhaps a problem or, a driver in your specific case. those elimi-eliminations should only be temporarily though to not create any other nutrient deficiencies in your body besides diet a big piece sometimes forgotten is about stress and stress reduction. So here I mean, working on your nervous system, what kind of breathing technique, meditation, you can do to, calm your nervous system down because we mentioned earlier stress is a big driver of inflammation. But stress reduction goes beyond that. I also have in mind you know, thinking about what is the cookware that you're using? what are the beauty products, the creams that you put on your skin? Anything like that. Where is your food coming from? What is the EMF exposure? So anything, you know, that can really create stress to your body should also be looked at, in my opinion, to really, you know, create a cleaner and calmer environment for your body to live in.

Kat 30:43

Yeah

Marie 30:43

I'm not speaking about, you know, even like more, dangerous things like mold, heavy metal exposure. Th-those are obviously yet another category of stressors that we want to reduce and exclude as much as possible

Kat 30:58

Let's talk a little bit more about the food part, you mentioned that you wanna eliminate the things that are causing the inflammation, but not for too long. So what is the length of time that somebody should attempt to eliminate? Just to give you context, I was told that I should only eliminate my foods for four to six months. I ended up doing it for a year and a half, certain ones, not, not everything. Just a couple that I felt like I really wanted to, not have any triggers with, and that was gluten and eggs. So I'm just curious your thoughts on, the length of time

Marie 31:27

it really depends, I guess, on the strictness of, what we're eliminating. If it's a really strict, for example low or anti-candida diet where ultimately you cannot eat anything that transform into sugar, it can be quite limiting, and it can be quite again, leading to nutrient deficiencies in the long term. So on a very strict elimination diet, I, I keep my clients for up to three month. But in those three months, we will already... if the body's-- once the body has stabilized and, we see, okay, the inflammation goes back, we can already start introducing the foods that we suspect the least, you know, them being a driver. But I do agree with you that gluten is certainly one of the, you know, most known triggers of the immune system, which is why I usually recommend people to just stop eating gluten you

Kat 32:21

Just generally, yeah

Marie 32:23

long as they, can or at least reduce it as much as possible. And I think it all comes down for me to that, being more conscious of what you eat. If you know, for example, you are sensitive to high histamine foods like tomatoes, the nightshades eggplants, et cetera, or aged cheese or a lot of fermented products, it's for me all a question about moderation. So don't eat like cheese, tomatoes, wine, and I don't know, kimchi altogether because that will al-make your bucket, of, you know, tolerance for sure overflow. But for me, there's not really a set answer of, you know, h-for how long do we need to eliminate. But I do believe, as you said, be very cautious with gluten, dairy and eggs and maybe soy products and then reintroduce them or not gradually as you feel ready for it and as you feel like your body has become more resilient and more able to tolerate them.

Kat 33:19

How long did it take you to, not just with the food, but where you started to see real results with your skin?

Marie 33:26

Honestly, once I started to work with a functional practitioner, I think within six to eight weeks, obviously

Kat 33:32

Oh, wow. Okay

Marie 33:32

have, you know, like, the flares, but I, the, really red inflammation stopped. But also keep in mind that I stopped working. So, you know, I essentially cut my stress level from 100 to zero in that same time. So it was for sure an interplay between the stress reduction piece and then working on the different pillars that we had identified. And also I think ultimately, just slowing down because slowing down means also, for example, that you chew your food more, that will then help with stomach acid production, will help with digestion. Slowing down in the evening also then help for a more recuperative sleep, which then helps your skin also to, build back up and to reduce the inflammation

Kat 34:19

Yeah, it all, it all works together. in terms of the products you used what were some things that you were using or looking out for for your skin, like topically?

Marie 34:28

yeah, topically. I used a lot of... I don't know if that's a thing actually in the US, but I did put a lot of clay masks, or clay, on my skin on the different areas where it was inflamed because it has a very anti-inflammatory property. The really thick clay masks on my body, and then you kind of let it dry a bit, which really... Obviously, you need to do it several times a day. It's not like magically erasing the inflammation. More recently I have been experiencing more with skin microbiome altering serums or creams. So those are products that actually have life or living bacteria in them which then really alter directly your skin microbiome, which will then in turn also work on your gut microbiome. Anyway, so that's all about, you know, the skin microbiome and how to modulate that, and th- those products really work well, at least

Kat 35:23

Yeah, that's something that we haven't talked about is how the eczema skin or somebody who has TSW or somebody who has chronic eczema, how is their skin different from a normal person's skin in terms of the microbiome and the barrier?

Marie 35:34

So I think there are several things that research shows that is actually different from a healthy, quote-unquote, "skin" to somebody with eczema-prone skin. So first of all, going back to the skin microbiome, our skin microbiomes are going to be different from one... a person with a healthy skin microbiome, and usually we see a lot of Staphylococcus overgrowth on the skin. Also the pH acidity is often different, and our eczema skin is beyond dry. So imagine that we have ceramides that are the mortar of your skin holding the different skin cells together, and usually those ceramides are lower in amount for somebody with eczema skin so that the ones that are there tend to be shorter and looser. So you know, we, we don't have this nice wall that is sealed together properly for healthy skin people. And the consequence of that is that water leaks out more easily, allergens can penetrate more easily and as well for bacteria. So it's a bit more simply a weaker skin barrier that eczema people have. And also more and more studies show that there is not even only difference in the skin like on a barrier level, but also in the gut there are different bacteria families that are perhaps overgrown or under available or under present for people that have eczema versus people that have healthy skin.

Kat 37:02

So I can completely, relate to that because I don't actually get flare-ups anymore, and I think it's because now my gut, because I changed the microbiome of it, I maybe am now more tolerant of a lot of different foods or anything that I'm eating. People say you can't cure eczema. Like, I actually think you can, and I'm not gonna get into that, but I think that when you change these pieces, of your body, the microbiome, then why wouldn't your rashes go away, right? Because you're changing the, the environment

Marie 37:30

Yes. I think you still may have, the predisposition or the tendency that you can redevelop,

Kat 37:37

Hmm

Marie 37:37

rashes. But I think as you mentioned I also am convinced that there is a way to modulate your environment in the way that, those inflammatory signals, for example, that your body sends to make your skin flare up and itch can be calmed and can be really controlled

Kat 37:54

Yeah. I know that we are almost at time, but I would love to just chat about the topic of children who have ex- or, you know eczema in children. We talked about how stress is related to, you know, skin inflammation. So people, I think, ask then, what about kids? Like, they can't be that stressed. What actually causes eczema in kids, and is it different from adults?

Marie 38:16

Yes. it's different and it's not, I guess. So I think one thing that at least I didn't know before having a child is that, unborn babies, they also already feel a lot of stress. So if you're as a mom

Kat 38:30

All

Marie 38:31

you're stressed, there will be, you know, some form of stress that is given to the baby as well. The same, for example, if you have had or if you have, as a pregnant woman exposure to toxins, to mycotoxins, to mold. A-actually there are mold spores that have been, found in placentas, so means that mold also is essentially, passed on to the baby, which can then be, for example, one of the reasons a baby's skin will then be very reactive and flare up. So I think our baby's health already depends a lot on the moms. to blame us or not to, you know, put even more pressure on us, but for sure there is a link. Same for the gut microbiome, right? Especially through a vaginal birth, you give your gut microbiome to your baby. So if you have a lot of dysbiosis then you don't set up your baby perhaps with the greatest chances to have a great gut microbiome. But as you and I know, everything can be, repaired and fixed afterwards, so it's also not like the end of the world. But there are different links of, things that might explain why a baby has eczema directly when they're born. And then there's obviously this, other predisposition piece that is for sure there. Even though the parents don't have eczema, there can be, genes that are activated or are not expressing themselves would then lead to inflamed skin and also eczema never comes alone. So if a baby, for example, is constipated or has diarrhea, I wish that would, be, a more, a bigger warning sign perhaps also for pediatric doctors that that's not normal that you are constantly constipated once you start like started the weaning process, for example. So that can already be a sign there might be an imbalance in the baby's gut microbiome. Why don't we take a look at it so that we can, potentially even prevent the flares from actually happening? And maybe, this person will never actually have one single flare because we essentially identified the problem at its root, and we saw that there are some imbalances like constipation or diarrhea that shouldn't be there and that don't have to be there

Kat 40:43

Yeah. That's a good point that maybe it's not even about really fixing anything, but just kind of getting ahead of it and going to see a functional practitioner like yourself just to see where you're at, like, to see if there's anything that could be a predisposition or, you know indicating that something could happen

Marie 40:59

Yeah, I agree. I mean, obviously that would be the best case. I always kind of think about, you know, we all have a car, and we would never wait until the car breaks down to actually go get it repaired. we do wait for a very long time sometimes until our body really, sends us, these, like, warning signs that we can no longer ignore. Okay, now I need to do something." But I agree with you. Ideally, obviously, we do these, annual checkups like we do probably for our car to just prevent, anything worse from happening. And that's not to be, negative or anything like that, but it's more, like,, really taking care of ourselves before we are forced to take care of ourselves

Kat 41:36

Yeah, if someone is listening and they're very interested in this topic, what is one thing that you would like them to walk away with remembering or a piece of advice for the listener as we wrap up?

Marie 41:45

I think first of all know, if you feel like something is off and even though maybe doctors or your friends and family tell you, "No, everything is fine," I really think it's important to trust your own instinct and your intuition. And don't get yourself like being talked out of, you know, if you feel like something is wrong with your digestion, trust yourself. And then, seek out for somebody that looks at your body holistically. I think that's a, a good first starting point because I assume people listening, are interested in health and perhaps have some health complaints themselves and they don't know where to start. I think it really starts with yourself. Maybe also, track your symptoms. That can also be reassuring that it's not just in your mind. just write down in your agenda, okay, today is, I don't know, maybe also, you know, cycle related. th- Third day of the cycle I have, horrible, I don't know, stomach pain, whatever it may be. I've had a headache. Just because I, I feel like sometimes looking back, you know, we forget about the symptoms that we had or the experience that we had. So I think writing it down so that also when you have something written down that you can go to a practitioner or a doctor with is really helpful to just get out of your mind and just think it's just you that thinks something is off

Kat 42:58

that's great. And how can people learn more about you or work with you if they're interested?

Marie 43:02

You can find me on my Instagram, marievolmer is the handle, and the same for the website, marievolmer.com. I have a free discovery call if you want to learn more about the method, about the tests, and how to go about it in general. And also, obviously, to find out whether functional testing is something that I recommend for you because I think it might be helpful or not

43:22

Okay, this episode highlights the thing that I keep coming back to, which is for chronic skin problems, you don't wanna think of your skin as just skin, but part of this larger complex system. It's useful to look into things like your gut health, your hormones, stress levels, digestion, nervous system, and just be more of a detective when it comes to finding out what's actually causing your inflammation in the first place. If you wanna work with Marie, you can find her links in the show notes. If you know someone who has a skin condition and just needs some help figuring out what could be the cause, please share this episode with them, and also point them to Marie. And if you're not following the show yet, please hit follow or subscribe so you don't miss what's coming up next. Thank you so much for tuning in. Go enjoy the outdoors. Until next time