Play, Purpose & Sober Curiosity: From Restaurant Life to Building Mad Flora with Lauren McGurrin

In this week's episode, we talk about sober curiosity, the non-alcoholic beverage space and how to build a non-alcoholic brand! We sit down with Lauren McGurrin who shares her journey from working in high-profile restaurants to becoming a food stylist and eventually founding Mad Flora, a non-alcoholic Amaro brand. She discusses the importance of community, the evolution of the non-alcoholic space, and her personal experiences with sober curiosity. Lauren dives into the value of creativity, playfulness, and the need to trust the process of self-discovery. We round out the convo with the impact of social media and the significance of finding hobbies that bring joy and fulfillment.

Connect with Lauren:
Instagram: @drinkmadflora, @herbalandspiced
Website: https://drinkmadflora.com/discount/NOSEDIVE20

20% off CODE: NOSEDIVE20 

The Artist's Way by Julia Cameron: https://www.amazon.com/Artists-Way-25th-Anniversary/dp/0143129252

To Be Magnetic: https://tobemagnetic.com/

15% off CODE: RENEE1293

Transcript

Renée Adams (00:02)
Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Nosedive. This week we have the lovely Lauren McGurrin. Lauren is a Brooklyn based private chef and food stylist. More recently, she is the founder and mad woman behind Mad Flora, a non alcoholic Amaro. Lauren and I actually met at the TV Magnetic Book Tour back in October and she was a featured sponsor there showcasing her delicious mocktail at the event. And I immediately thought to myself, okay,

Who is Lauren? What is Madflora? How did she get here? We must have her on Nosedive. So welcome to Nosedive, Lauren. We are so excited to have you.

Lauren McGurrin (00:42)
Thank you so much for having me and I've really enjoyed listening to the podcast because when you got in touch I said I have to I have to be a follower. I have to know what's up.

Renée Adams (00:51)
Thank you. No, we sincerely appreciate that for sure. Yeah. So tell us, tell us a little bit about you. You know, I remember you saying like becoming a food stylist is actually kind of easier than you thought. And then how did that turn into making a non-alc, a non-alc brand?

Mara DeMauro (01:14)
Okay.

Lauren McGurrin (01:14)
To not give you my entire

life story and condense it as much as possible, but I moved to New York in 2012 after college, knew I wanted to cook, didn't know the details of that, and I wanted to be really good. And so over the first six years I was in New York, I did three high-profile restaurant openings in New York, cooked at the Michelin level, and eventually, as I'm sure your listeners can relate to, the lifestyle got to me.

⁓ And I just knew I could not grow up and be an adult and also stay in restaurants. ⁓ So I left restaurants and the path kind of slowly opened up where some private chuffing opportunities came up immediately. And ⁓ it's also important to note that my ego could not just handle just leaving restaurants. like had to have a thing. So I was in graduate school for food studies at NYU very briefly. I ended up

⁓ dropping out during the pandemic for financial reasons. ⁓ But it made a lot of connections really fast. It was a really smart move at the time because I got involved with some production companies that said, I just reached out and they said, my God, no one ever reaches out. Do you want a job? ⁓ So it kind of is that easy. Granted, I did have the background for it to ⁓ really take off when the opportunity was presented. But so that's how I got my start.

Mara DeMauro (02:32)
Wow.

Lauren McGurrin (02:42)
⁓ and then from there, just emailing food stylist in New York, it's easier than you'd think. I would look at pictures. I'd be like, wow, that looks really great. Find the name and, ⁓ get in touch with them. So that at this point, I've been a freelancer longer than I was in restaurants, which is kind of a crazy, ⁓ moment in my life, I guess, to look back and be like, wow, I've been doing it myself for a very long time. beyond that mad flora, I was always excited to kind of move to the next thing.

Renée Adams (02:59)
Hmph.

Lauren McGurrin (03:12)
So, Mad Flora has been something I've been very excited about for a very long time. I've been watching the non-alch space since I left restaurants in 2018. ⁓ And I still don't think it really reflected for a very long time ⁓ things that would actually be interesting for somebody in food and beverage. So, I really wanted to be at the forefront of that and making something that tasted delicious first and foremost.

Renée Adams (03:29)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, gosh, so many things. Yeah, where should we start?

Mara DeMauro (03:38)
Whoa, Lauren. Yeah, wait. I'm like, okay, because I, I obviously

didn't meet you at the TBM event. So this is my first time like meeting you and hearing more about your story. Obviously Renee told me about you and I'm like, sick. Cool. Like I'm excited to dive in, but first of all, where are you from originally?

Lauren McGurrin (04:01)
It's not an interesting story, not really anywhere. I tell people I'm from Vermont because I went to college there, but now I have lived in New York for 13 years, which is the longest I've lived anywhere. Yeah.

Mara DeMauro (04:12)
Okay. Wow.

and what about, like, you're talking about food stylist and like, what is that? Like, you know, I see in magazines, like pictures of plated food, you know, and I would imagine that is some of it, but not all of it. And so what does that mean and what does that look like? What did, yeah.

Lauren McGurrin (04:34)
Great question. it essentially does come down to that, like pictures and magazines a lot of the time. There's a few different subsets. So there's editorial, there's marketing, and then there's commercial marketing. like ⁓ video sets for film or television or commercial spots. So ⁓ I largely, I have experience in all those things and it actually curtailed perfectly into kind of one of my favorite things about Flora, which is.

getting to do the photo shoots with my friends and just really build a creative arsenal of the biggest heavy hitters in product photography, formulation, different side. So that's been a really exciting part of this journey for me. ⁓ Yeah, I don't know. There's a lot of NDAs involved, but fast food commercials are my favorite things to do, oddly enough, which is always kind of a surprise to people. Yeah, love it.

Mara DeMauro (05:26)
my gosh. Yeah, why? Like, what's

the vibe? Why does it make it so fun?

Lauren McGurrin (05:33)
So at some point you get bored of cooking. know, it's not something that it just making a meal. It's just not technically that interesting to me at this point. And so for some of these commercial spots, these people have been working for my entire life, figuring out how to make shrimp as pink as possible. Like these just these very, ⁓ you can get hyper specific and learn a skill that is actually not useless, useful to a single other thing. But it's like a really fun, exciting day. ⁓

Mara DeMauro (06:02)
Interesting.

Renée Adams (06:02)
Yeah...

Lauren McGurrin (06:02)
Yeah,

but I mean, ⁓ working, I also like recipe developers, cookbooks are really fun too, for a lot of people. So, yeah.

Mara DeMauro (06:10)
Mmm.

Renée Adams (06:13)
Yeah, kind of like set the foundation

for what you're building with Madflora.

Lauren McGurrin (06:20)
100 % totally.

Renée Adams (06:22)
Yeah, dang, that's so interesting to me. So you talked and touched a little bit upon, you had your comeuppance in Michelin star restaurants, you're in the restaurant scene, you're doing the damn thing there. What was the shift for you in, you mentioned like, okay, I need to adult, I wanna take my life to the next level, I wanna do something different.

Was there like a specific moment that you remember in your story where you're like, man, I've got to make a change. Like this lifestyle that I'm leading right now is just not really what I want. What did that look like?

Lauren McGurrin (07:05)
I remember when I left, it was ⁓ Arabian Nights, or I could have answered the question a different way every day and told a different story. ⁓ So I think for a long time, I started out and I was part of really exciting small projects and I was one of the last salary ⁓ cooks in New York, which is an interesting line cook perspective. I don't think it's something that can be done anymore and it was probably pretty close to illegal at the time.

So the thing about that that's super interesting is the good and the bad news is you're there all the time. so you're not, since you're not in an hourly thing, you get to do everything and see everything. But as a result, you know, you're not making any money. Yeah, that's.

Renée Adams (07:48)
There's nothing else. Like you're not, yeah, like

you're not doing anything else. my God.

Lauren McGurrin (07:52)
Totally, totally. So

I would say I was in an equal amount of salaried and hourly positions in New York, which is pretty rare. That means you're working in really tight spaces. ⁓ And that was really cool and exciting to me for a long time because I saw peers of mine dropping out and doing other things. And so I really thought for a long time I was going to make it, whatever that means. ⁓ Make it was relative. In retrospect, that was foolish of me because

Mara DeMauro (07:54)
Well...

Lauren McGurrin (08:19)
It was never my goal anyway. I just wanted to cook. wanted to learn. wanted to be really good. I don't think I ever had these Michelin ambitions. It just came to a certain point where it was like, okay, this is the natural next step. I do not have a personality for that to be successful. I think it was like very embarrassing for me to get at that level because also I, you know, had been going out late for a really long time. I had been at, I think the upper limit of what was socially acceptable.

from a substance abuse standpoint in retrospect for a very long time. So by the time I was 28, I really felt very washed up. ⁓ And it was just clear it wasn't, not only was it not gonna happen for me, I didn't want it to. There was a moment where somebody said, I got in a conflict with someone and they said, you can't use large words here and expect it to be taken seriously. Why can't you just say, fuck you like everyone else? And I like really,

Renée Adams (09:02)
Mm.

Lauren McGurrin (09:16)
I really, really had like an existential crisis. Like I went home and I was like, I gotta go to grad school or something. ⁓ In retrospect, think, you know, sometimes things just have to get, you're gonna learn your lesson either way. It would be cooler if you listened before things got nasty. But ⁓ yeah, it was time for, it became clear it was time for me to go. And I think if I had known that there were any other options, because I actually didn't know food styling.

Mara DeMauro (09:18)
Hmm.

Renée Adams (09:35)
Yeah.

Lauren McGurrin (09:44)
was a viable option at the time. If I had known that there were other avenues and in fact that most of the people down those avenues didn't have the experience I had accrued, I probably would have gotten out earlier.

Renée Adams (09:57)
Yeah, well, I hope that that's like maybe a beacon of hope for some people who are listening that like, you just never know what you could maybe find in areas that you're talented at and that you really like that you just don't even know exist. So yeah, thanks for sharing that. I think it's a really good reminder.

Mara DeMauro (09:57)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Lauren McGurrin (10:13)
Yeah, absolutely.

Mara DeMauro (10:15)
Yeah. We talk, Renee and I talk about that all the time. We're like, we don't even know what to like search for, you know, like when you're searching for jobs, it's like, I know what I like to do and I know what my skills are and my talents and my passions. But when it comes to searching keywords and like what a title would be, I'm like, I don't fucking know. You know? So it's, it's really, I just think, I don't know. I just try to remain open to what.

Renée Adams (10:32)
Hahaha.

Mara DeMauro (10:41)
some, might cross someone who says something about that I've never known, like for you food styling. It's like, ⁓ shit. And that opens a whole other avenue of opportunity. ⁓ so yeah, don't lose hope guys.

Renée Adams (10:54)
Later.

Lauren McGurrin (10:55)
Totally, totally. think that, I mean, even prop styling, things like that. Like I was a prop master in high school at a tech, like for music, ⁓ musicals and stuff. And who would have known that was an actual job? Had I known that as a high schooler, I think that would have been crazy for me.

Renée Adams (11:12)
Yeah, no idea. Like, I've never heard of any of those things. So it's so cool to me.

Lauren McGurrin (11:14)
Yeah.

Mara DeMauro (11:19)
What about you mentioning like you don't have the personality for...

like being in the restaurant realm for, at that time anyway, like what would you, how would you describe like a personality to be able to fit in that space?

Lauren McGurrin (11:28)
⁓

I think being very type A is really helpful, like exceptionally type A. Really, ⁓ you have to be a more organized person than I am, I think, to really succeed in those environments. I've kind of come to the conclusion at this point that people's best qualities are their worst qualities often. Like they're just so intertwined that it's hard to get away from that. And I've actually found being, my brother would call it type B plus, like more than B. ⁓

Renée Adams (12:06)
Hahaha.

Lauren McGurrin (12:08)
has been like very, very helpful at this stage in my life, especially like I said, as I'm working with these collaborators and they say, my God, thank you so much for trusting me. And to some end, I'm like, do you know how easy it is to trust you? First off, you're a professional with this. If I could do it myself, I would. And thank God I can't do it myself because you would do such a better job. I'm delighted to give you the opportunity to just do your job and make something that you're really excited to stand on. ⁓

And that's the opposite. Like, I think you have to have a really, really tight vision at that level to be successful. Yeah.

Mara DeMauro (12:41)
Hmm.

Interesting.

Renée Adams (12:45)
Yeah, you mentioned too, I guess, what 2018 or since 2018, you've been kind of following the non-alch space. What kind of brought you to that? Like, were you introduced to the space? Was it just something that you saw that was like missing in the food space? Like, what kind of brought that about for you and what kept you in the sort of atmosphere of like...

or maybe not even sober curiosity, but just like the non-Alex space in general.

Lauren McGurrin (13:18)
So I was taking breaks from drinking when I left restaurants and I was just interested. I was doing a lot of reading and I wanted to see what was out there. I think what is one of probably the first non-alcoholic bottle shops in the country was in my neighborhood at the time, which is Spirited Away. Those are still great friends of mine. Yeah, it used to be on Ludlow Street. And so I was really excited to try a lot of the things. And while they were very good, ⁓

Renée Adams (13:35)
Okay, yeah, yeah, I've heard of it. Yeah, cool.

Lauren McGurrin (13:47)
They didn't really speak to me. So I really, was watching it for a long time. And I also do have a great deal of friends who do work in the beverage space, largely in alcohol. So my brother was a brewer for a very long time. Yeah, I knew a few other people ⁓ who do sort of liquor based things. So I never felt quite qualified, but there was a moment where I said to myself, ⁓

There are rarely people more qualified than I am for this. And in fact, I think a big ⁓ mantra of mine and Flora when I'm asked on a good day is like, food products should be made by food people. And people kind of look at me funny. They're like, of course that's the case. It's almost never the case. Like it's often the money people who are making the food products, not the food people. So ⁓ it's really approaching it from that standpoint has been very interesting.

Renée Adams (14:37)
Yeah.

Lauren McGurrin (14:43)
I will also say that I went to a flavor conference a few years ago for Anne Hauser Bush, and these people are, know, top of their field, experts. And I asked the question, when does your expertise matter? And they said, ⁓ almost never. We always go with the market. And I think that that sucks.

Mara DeMauro (15:02)
Wow.

Lauren McGurrin (15:02)
I think that answer

Renée Adams (15:03)
What?

Lauren McGurrin (15:03)
is terrible.

I mean, it makes sense for them. There's a lot of money on the line and if they can engineer a product to make the maximum profit, it doesn't matter if it's the best product. It's the one that makes the most money. that's not, think that that's like music is made by consensus. Like when art's made by consensus like that, it sucks. So I just think that I kind of was really lucky to find the right team to build this together. And I said,

Renée Adams (15:21)
Yeah.

Mara DeMauro (15:21)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Lauren McGurrin (15:31)
what if we got to do it differently? And they said, thank God. Yeah. Yeah, please, please. Yeah.

Renée Adams (15:35)
Yeah, huge gaps. man,

that's such a cool insight, honestly.

Mara DeMauro (15:40)
the integrity

of it. Fuck. It pisses me off.

Renée Adams (15:46)
Yeah,

the like produced, you know, it works for some people, sure, but just like the, and that's something too that I've like really loved to see, not only about your product, like tasting your product too, but just like the time and detail and the curation that actually goes into things like what you're building. ⁓ You just have a different appreciation for it.

And more people are going to, I think, entertain the non-ALC space when it is something that's thoughtful.

Lauren McGurrin (16:24)
told a huge compliment of mine is when people who aren't interested in the non-alcoholic space at all just kind of granted their bias by the fact that they know me but not necessarily my favor though and when they say I'd never considered a non-alcoholic menu before but I tried your thing and now I know there's more interesting things in the space I'm always looking at non-alcoholic menus now that could I have a bigger compliment absolutely not so yeah that's but and also to the point I don't necessarily think

for what it's worth, that it's a lack of integrity, well, on behalf of the companies. But I'll tell you even as a private chef, I can present a menu, but at the end of the day, if people want tater tots, I'm going to make tater tots. You know what I mean? There is an extent to give the people what they want that does make sense. It's just, I'm doing this for me. I think sometimes doing it for you first creates the crowd to follow you.

Renée Adams (17:21)
And there's place for everybody. Like there's room for everything.

Mara DeMauro (17:25)
Yeah, because then there's the topic of like, do people actually want that? Or is that just what they're used to having? So that's what they want. You know, like, how do we, you know, like there's so much more than just the norm, the regular, the expected. ⁓ And so I love what you're doing because it opens the opportunity and the idea to try something fucking different.

Lauren McGurrin (17:25)
Exactly.

Mara DeMauro (17:53)
that might just blow you away and excite you and then open new doors. And now, shit, you're looking at non-alcoholic drink menus that you would have never noticed in the first place. So yeah, it's just like creating more options for people and ⁓ that curiosity and that playfulness that that really brings to people. And that's what I appreciate the most. I think that's really cool.

Lauren McGurrin (18:19)
I mean, I really, it's so nice to meet, I mean, a really cool thing about going to the, ⁓ the To Be Magnetic event and chatting now is I have been making things in the dark for like a decade, you know what I mean? If not longer. And so when people are like, this is cool. It's like, I didn't know, you know what I mean? Like, it's just, it's very, ⁓ I thought it was really cool. But ⁓ yeah, I didn't know it resonated at all. So that's really nice.

Mara DeMauro (18:44)
Yeah, the courage it takes to like bring it into the light and you're like, fuck, this thing's really cool to me. Is anyone else going to think this is cool? It's vulnerable.

Renée Adams (18:45)
gosh, yeah, mean, can tell you, yeah, go ahead. ⁓ totally, no, no, totally.

Yeah.

Lauren McGurrin (18:57)
In fairness,

some extent. ⁓ I appreciate, didn't really, to some extent it's like, I don't know if I really had a choice. You know what I mean? Like at some point you you gotta do what you have to do. So, but I appreciate it.

Renée Adams (19:10)
Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, it takes a lot though. mean, to Tamara's point, it's like, you you work on something for so long and it's just like, man, like what's, what am I doing? What is this even? Like, I love this shit, but when you put it out there in the world ⁓ and not even to like, excuse me, to get like the validation from other people, but there is that sense of like, man, like what's going to happen? The unknown. ⁓

But yeah, I I totally appreciated it because I've been to a couple events recently that didn't have any mocktails or non-ELK anything. And I was just like, damn, that sucks because there's so many options.

Mara DeMauro (19:52)
Like mindset, like

mindset conferences or whatever. Not just like, I went to a concert event. Like things that are about mindfulness and shit like that. And it's like.

Renée Adams (19:58)
Yes.

How do you not have something? There's so many good things out there. Yeah, totally.

Lauren McGurrin (20:07)
It's kind of nuts. Totally.

I'm very lucky that in New York, maybe people are just not saying it to my face because it's my company. But when I go into most restaurants, the bartenders I say, this is so great. We take breaks or half the bartenders I meet, I feel like are sober, which is kind of crazy. ⁓ And so it is it is exciting that that's rarely a conversation I have to have. But I know that's not the case everywhere. And I also know people

other salespeople in the non-alcoholic space who don't necessarily feel that way and often feel they're still having to justify themselves. And you really couldn't find a better community to serve than the non-alcoholic, the sober community. I love them. They're just like the easiest, like loveliest people. I'm so grateful to be part of it in any capacity. guess I identify as sober curious, but I mostly, I just don't really drink. It's usually where I end up on that part of the conversation.

Mara DeMauro (20:44)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Renée Adams (21:03)
Yeah,

Mara DeMauro (21:04)
Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious. I'm curious about I was going to. So lame. Just about ⁓ what does. Yeah. What is sober curiosity mean? Like what did that journey look like for you? If you don't mind sharing with us that that path of, know, you're in food and bed and you're like, fuck, I can't do this shit anymore. Like you said, I'm washed up, you know. So and then did you take like a solid break for a long time or did you, you know, with that?

Renée Adams (21:05)
same.

You

⁓

Lauren McGurrin (21:28)
Yeah.

Mara DeMauro (21:33)
take us through that.

Lauren McGurrin (21:35)
I would say to some extent, so being 23, starting in restaurants, or 22, and you go out with your, the first restaurant I was at was a relatively larger restaurant, and there were two other ones associated with it. It's ABC in New York and Union Square. And so at the end of the day, you would go out with like 40 of your close friends every night. And so I think that the social aspect of that,

for many years and after that it was kind of similar, know, the people you're with all the time you're going out with as well. And ⁓ so I would say for a long time, I would say the five years after I left restaurants, it was comparatively lonely in a good way, but ⁓ getting used to not having that crutch and kind of rebuilding was an interesting thing. ⁓ I would take month breaks and I would feel a lot better. An interesting thing about those month breaks is

although not drinking has changed my life in so many ways for the better, the interesting thing about it is you immediately realize, this isn't the source of all my problems. I still have problems. And that was an interesting revelation for me. So I would take breaks, and then I would go back. ⁓ My partner doesn't, same thing, he doesn't really drink. And we've been together a very long time, so he just...

Mara DeMauro (22:44)
Mm-hmm.

Lauren McGurrin (23:00)
but in a way where he doesn't really relate to necessarily the spirit space, because he could just always take it or leave it. But he was very supportive. I would say I would take longer breaks for a long time, but I would go back. And then in 2023, I just kind of had a big year. We had to move three times. There was an illness in the family. Just a lot of things happened, like a lot of housing insecurity. Some jobs fell through, like the stylist I was working with the most.

dropped me and that happens, know, personality things. But at the end of it, I said, okay, am I the person I thought I am I going to be the person I want to be? And the answer was, yeah, you got to step up to the plate. And so at that point, I said, I'm going to take a year off from drinking. That was officially rather than like a month on a month off. That was November, 2023. ⁓ Getting to the point where I made up my mind, making up my mind was the hard part.

once I made up my mind, it was very easy. Like every, you know, the waffling was really the issue. And then as I was rounding up the end of that year, so that was going into last year, the end of last year, I said, first off, Trump was elected. And I said, I cannot be adding any stress to the biology soup. Like this really, like, can't, I can't, I can't go back. can't, yeah, by the end of that year, it was clear I could not go back.

Renée Adams (24:20)
Hahaha.

Lauren McGurrin (24:27)
both for political and personal reasons. I felt so much better. ⁓ I managed stress differently and it's time to step it up again.

Renée Adams (24:37)
Yeah, I totally relate. Yeah, it's amazing.

Mara DeMauro (24:38)
Wow.

Hmm. Yeah. I love how you touched on the topic of you notice when you're taking these month breaks that alcohol isn't necessarily the issue. It amplifies the deeper things that are going on. ⁓ and I, we've talked about this a bit because, know, when you see like highlight reels and it's like, I'm sober now and my life is amazing. You know, like I'm more mindful and I get to the gym and I do all these things. Yes.

that can be true. And also, it can also be true that things feel really intense. It can feel lonely. You're trying to totally reorient how you socialize with people, how you connect with people. How do you connect with yourself? What the fuck do you do with your hand when you're standing around a group of people and everyone else has a beer? I mean, there are a gazillion things to take into consideration that aren't just like, like I said, the highlight reel that we see or the clickbait that we can see. So yeah, can you speak to that?

a little bit, like what did that look like and feel like for you? When you notice that.

Lauren McGurrin (25:42)
god, and on the note of the highlight

reel. Totally. The one that grinds my gears is when somebody's like, and I lost weight. It's like, don't I don't ever, there's not a single conversation in which I want to hear about weight loss. I never want to hear about it. Don't bring it up. ⁓ And so, but back to the topic.

Yeah, I think it's just interesting the ways in which we're kind of always unraveling that like right now the big one for me at this moment It's always interesting that like in some ways I feel like I have a mental health white whale and the one right now is like I got to get off social media man like Hey, you know, it's just it's taking up a lot of time and that you know breaks breaks are great and I do feel better and then I go back and like ⁓ But social media isn't necessarily the problem, you know, it's just finding finding you right back to Center

Renée Adams (26:14)
Hmm, yes.

Lauren McGurrin (26:30)
⁓ I think is consistently the thing. Yeah, just developing different skill sets. also back to a conversation about the sober community. I'm so impressed by the sober people in my life of which there are so many because they are real people with flaws and they know exactly what their flaws are. Like they're exactly aware of their blind spots and they're working on it constantly.

Renée Adams (26:49)
you

Mara DeMauro (26:55)
Yeah, the awareness. ⁓ yeah. And like the willingness to, it takes again, vulnerability to be like, yeah, man, these are my shortcomings. I know it, you know, and I'm, trying to work on that, you know, and I really respect when people can do that. And, ⁓ I just want to go back to the weight loss thing because I think it's funny in the whole, like the, the highlight real stuff because

I think Renee and I both have posted shit like this and we still do, you know, because it's like going back to the whole social media stuff. It's like, what's going to engage people? And it's like people, it's going back to the fucking hash brown or tater tot things, you know, give the people what they want, you know, because it's going to bring them in, you know, versus like, and it's oftentimes there's more depth there. So I know Renee has posted stuff about her weight loss journey and it's not

Renée Adams (27:36)
Yeah.

Right.

Mara DeMauro (27:50)
about how she looks or the weight loss per se. It's about the dedication to actually being able to stick to the things that she's wanted to do, like powerlifting competition or shit she would have never done if she was numbing out, you know? ⁓ But there's also the other side when it's just all about like the superficial, look how I am now.

Renée Adams (27:53)
Right.

Lauren McGurrin (28:14)
Yeah.

Renée Adams (28:14)
Well,

it's like the X equals YZ when there's just like, and you touched upon that too Mara, it's like the highlight of it. It's like that is the like five second instant gratification that you see when, or like an iceberg or whatever. It's like the top, there's just like this little tiny thing at the top and then like all of this other shit at the bottom that you've been working on for years that you are.

navigating and, you know, Lauren, I love too that you touched upon like, where you are right now is like the social media. And that's like the whole premise of like, what we're talking about a nose dive is like these numbing elements, like, it's it's all of these coping mechanisms that can transform and look differently for different people. And how can we

shine this light on those things to not necessarily like push it away or never do it again or because that's just not realistic. But how do we become intentional about it and aware and see and then like fucking do something about it just like what you're doing.

Lauren McGurrin (29:26)
Absolutely. And the tricky thing, like you said about the highlight reels and the fact is that it is a fact, like those things are happening. So it's hard not to highlight them when that's part of it. I mean, it's the tricky thing about it's part of the game, but the goal is to exit the game entirely, you know? But like it is, it is so much in the phrasing. Yeah.

Mara DeMauro (29:35)
Mm-hmm.

Heheheheh Yeah

Renée Adams (29:44)
Hahaha!

Mara DeMauro (29:49)
Right.

And to, I know. Well, fuck, was, you you bring up social media and this is. I've seen so many things like posting on social media is going to be like the new egg and stuff like this. And I, I was contemplating literally today. I was like, cause I'm going down to Key West and I'm going to be living there for a little bit. And I was like, I want to make a page to kind of like.

Renée Adams (29:51)
my God, I love that analogy though. Like we just all want out anyways.

Lauren McGurrin (29:56)
Yeah.

Mara DeMauro (30:18)
help people see how you can live in a place that's primarily centered around booze, island life living and how you can live it differently. And I just want to share my experience. And, but then I'm like, fuck, like, do I want to be on social media and Instagram, you know, like more. I, I was like really juggling with that. And I'm like, I don't, I don't know. This is weird.

Renée Adams (30:32)
You

Mm-hmm.

Lauren McGurrin (30:43)
It's so hard when the message is important, but it is at the cost of one's privacy. know what I mean? So it's a tricky time. It's not a question that other generations have had to answer. And I appreciate you saying it because I do, like, it's very easy to hear from someone else. Like, that sounds incredible. I would love to see your journey in that way, but it's harder to find that in yourself. You know, it's the joke and the...

Mara DeMauro (30:49)
Mm-hmm

Lauren McGurrin (31:07)
And yet again, the sober community is often like, it's okay if you do it. It's not okay if I do it. You know what I mean? So that's yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So.

Renée Adams (31:12)
Yeah, you're like, I love that for you.

Mara DeMauro (31:14)
Yeah.

Yeah, man, ⁓ man. And then you have like a million fucking different platforms and it's like, it's just so much. But then also it's been so great in connecting with people I've never met with. You know, like I've never met you and now we're connected. like, it's, they got us man, they got us.

Renée Adams (31:25)
Yeah.

Yeah.

I know.

Lauren McGurrin (31:39)
Totally. I mean, without straying too far from the topic at hand, I'd really like, I think if they crack down on bots, that would be immensely helpful in making it like a real proper third space.

Mara DeMauro (31:53)
Mmm.

Renée Adams (31:53)
Mm.

That's such an interesting take, too, because like there have been some people who I've met like through social media and like seeing like the back end of things on what they do. It's kind of like the fucking Wizard of Oz. It's like the guy back here doing all this stuff and he's not really all not to say these people aren't that great, but they're not like it's not organic. Like a lot of this stuff is like strategy or.

paid or paid followers and stuff like that. And it's just like, whoa, okay, when you find out these things of what's behind the curtain, at least for me, I'm like, okay, I'm actually not doing so bad. You know what I mean? Like the comparison game and all that bullshit, but yeah.

Mara DeMauro (32:36)
You

Lauren McGurrin (32:37)
I don't know.

No, And it's so hard because there's money riding on that at this point. these followers, doesn't, you know what I mean? It doesn't matter if it's real engagement or not. To some extent, they're buying themselves that so they can have the opportunities in the first place. Yeah.

Renée Adams (32:54)
Yes, yes,

exactly. ⁓ what a conundrum.

Mara DeMauro (32:58)
Fascinating.

Lauren McGurrin (33:00)
Yeah, it's tough world out there.

Renée Adams (33:02)
Okay,

well going back to your product with Mad Flora, what was the beginning incubator or brainstorming around the flavor profile that you wanted or why did you pick an Amaro? What was the thought process that went into that?

Mara DeMauro (33:03)
We should.

Lauren McGurrin (33:25)
So I've always, I think that there's kind of like a through line of taste to some extent if you look back on my life, I'm like, of course that's exactly what would interest me. Even when I was young, one of my best friends in high school went to Argentina for the summer and was drinking for net and coke all summer with.

Renée Adams (33:34)
Mmm.

Lauren McGurrin (33:42)
⁓ like an older man named Fekundo and I was like, there's nothing more sophisticated on this earth. ⁓ And then working in restaurants and like drinking for nets and cokes and just really being interested in that bitter flavor profile and herbs. So I think, you know, I think most wellness ladies, non-binarys, gays, like stumbled down the witch path at some point. So like the herbalism thing is very interesting from like a chef and a, you know, just.

a moon lady, let's say. so I think that I think and in many ways Amaro is the OG herbalism witch thing because it is a digestion thing. So gentian is meant to help digest. That's what it's for. It's to either open your palate palate before a meal or to help you digest after. So I think that there's something like very naturally appealing there from a medicinal standpoint. ⁓ And then the flavors are just interesting to me on top of that. So I think that that's

Renée Adams (34:11)
Yeah, I love that.

Lauren McGurrin (34:38)
especially just being sad, seeing other people with spritzes and being like, that's so cute. Why can't I have a cute thing? Like, we all we deserve cute things. We deserve cute, well crafted things. So yeah.

Renée Adams (34:44)
Yes, we do. Yeah.

And you can have it on its own and you can mix it, right? Or do you recommend mixing it to make more of like a, apparel spritz or whatever.

Lauren McGurrin (35:01)
I do, a spritz with tonic is really, think the, what it was most, it was designed for a lot of things. I think the tonic helps from a sugar perspective. It is less, significantly less sweet than most of the things on the market, which is my appeal ⁓ for me and the draw for a lot of people, but I think the sugar and tonic helps a little bit. It's great with seltzer too though. I would say that's how most customers drink it and it's delicious that way.

It's really good in a jungle bird. when I sort of think of recipes that I'm going to compare it to, I think about things with Campari in them in particular. So it works really well with tiki drinks, which is cool. ⁓ And it works in sours as well. So that's kind of the four categories that I think it whips. has like a really good heady foam if that if you're like really heavily into cocktail making, but you don't necessarily need to do that. I'm not.

an extravagant cocktail person. want one, two, done. ⁓ What else was I going? There's, I have five SKUs planned, I would say. ⁓ There was another point, but I lost it. Yeah. Yeah.

Renée Adams (35:58)
Same.

No, that's so that's like very exciting because I'm

the same like when it comes to I was more of like a wine champagne drinker, but I loved an upper all spritz. And so when I tried, you know, Matt Flora at the event, I was like, fuck, yeah, this is this shit is good. Adding it to the non off bar cart for sure. ⁓ But I also love the simplicity. I wasn't like a huge cocktail girly. But when you have like two things like

Mara DeMauro (36:19)
Hmm

Renée Adams (36:38)
The fizz and the mix, perfect. I'm super simplistic, ⁓ but the depth of flavor that it has with all of the herbs and whatnot, it's like, very good, very good.

Mara DeMauro (36:52)
Wow,

you guys, I'm very curious to try this. I'm over here like, what does this taste like?

Lauren McGurrin (36:55)
I know.

Renée Adams (36:57)
I know.

Lauren McGurrin (36:57)
I'll send you a bottle. You'll get me your address and I'll send you bottles. Totally. ⁓ I'll say it. Yeah, I can't wait for you to try it. So you'll definitely be getting a bottle. It also goes really well in not oak champagnes. So champagne cocktail situation or Negroni's Bagliato sort of skew. Yeah, Damn right, damn right.

Mara DeMauro (37:00)
Gosh, I would love to try it.

Renée Adams (37:15)
Hell yeah, sister. That's what I'm talking about.

Mara DeMauro (37:16)
Yeah. Oh my gosh, this is perfect because

I'm just like, I'm thinking about, cause I'm going to be like facilitating things down in the keys. Um, so I'm like mocktail stuff and we'll definitely use this. Um, there like where can, yeah. Can do people, how can people buy this if they're not in New York? Okay.

Renée Adams (37:22)
You

Lauren McGurrin (37:30)
⁓

Renée Adams (37:32)
Yeah.

Lauren McGurrin (37:33)
We'll chat.

You can buy it on my website.

Website's great. We're working, I mean, by we, it's me. You know what mean? Everyone else is kind of a freelancer who's done their part. So like I'm working on national distribution. It's totally viable, but it's just hard to build a sales base with that. ⁓ There's a discount code I gave you guys. It would be great. Yeah. I would love for your audience to try it. ⁓ The website's the way to go right now.

Renée Adams (37:46)
Hahaha!

Mara DeMauro (38:01)
Okay, perfect, awesome.

Renée Adams (38:02)
Yeah, yeah, we'll have

everything linked in our show notes. And as Lauren mentioned, we're giving a 20 % off discount for our listeners, which is so incredible. And it's Nose Dive 20, but we'll link everything in the show notes for that because I think this is something not only just like the impact that you're creating in this space and your story, but like the shit is actually really good too. So like, yeah, yeah, super excited.

Mara DeMauro (38:27)
Cool.

Lauren McGurrin (38:29)
So,

and to your point, and I'm really grateful you think so, and I mean, obviously I think so too, but I do know that non-alcoholic spirits are insanely expensive. I understand it's a space that is, it's hard to try things. ⁓ yeah.

Mara DeMauro (38:39)
Lauren, sorry. You're.

Renée Adams (38:43)
I know, it was like breaking up a little bit. 38.

Mara DeMauro (38:44)
Yeah, like a lot of it. Hold on.

Lauren McGurrin (38:47)
are we back?

Renée Adams (38:49)
Yeah, maybe let it buffer for a sec.

Lauren McGurrin (38:57)
You know, internet in Brooklyn is like, it is bad. I'm like, is this a developing country? Like sometimes it goes out like so often in my apartment building. I don't know why, but.

Renée Adams (39:05)
You

Mara DeMauro (39:11)
There's

probably so many people using it. Maybe that's why.

Renée Adams (39:14)
I know, totally.

Lauren McGurrin (39:14)
That's

exactly, I guess that's exactly right. Okay, killer, ⁓ Well, I know that non-alcoholic spirits are really expensive and it's so hard to try something if you can't, especially with shipping and things like that. So I do, I want people to be able to try it. I'm super happy to give the discount code. ⁓ Yeah, it's great. That's what I have to say.

Renée Adams (39:16)
There we go, we're good. We're good, we're good. I'll just make a note. ⁓

Mara DeMauro (39:20)
Yeah, sorry, what were you saying? You were like, ⁓ I was like,

Okay, cool. Yeah, and we

Renée Adams (39:41)
Yeah.

Mara DeMauro (39:43)
have a couple Nose Dives hats, so we'll send you one. We have blue, which Renee has on, or I have an ivory, like a white one. Do you have any preference?

Lauren McGurrin (39:47)
Yeah.

Blue, blue, the ivory, mean, ivory is wonderful. I cannot, this is the closest to white I can wear. will absolutely trash it. ⁓ Yeah. Love it, love it, it, dream age. Yeah, it's like camp friends.

Mara DeMauro (40:00)
Yeah. Okay, perfect. Little Swapsies. Yeah.

Renée Adams (40:03)
sick. Yes.

love that. Gosh, and that's the other thing too, you know, like through this entire experience of like, you know, we talk about playfulness and curiosity and having fun. And it's like, there's this essence of like nostalgia and getting back to these things like fucking camp, like summer camp where you like swap phone numbers on a piece of paper and I'll like, I'll call you or I'll write you or whatever. It's just like so wholesome and fun. And it's just like, man, this shit.

Mara DeMauro (40:33)
haha

Renée Adams (40:39)
is awesome to me. It's just so fun. So yeah, thanks for like highlighting that. It's like, yeah, this is just fun.

Mara DeMauro (40:41)
Mm.

Lauren McGurrin (40:46)
So it's amazing how the people you resonate, especially I think this becomes much clearer in sobriety too, or sobriety adjacent, is like the people you resonate with, you resonate with. Like you're going to find your people everywhere. And the people you don't, that's okay. That doesn't make them bad people. so it is that fun sort of recognition of souls on a base level that's really cool.

Mara DeMauro (40:58)
Mm.

Yeah, I was, it's funny that fun and play have come up because I was going to ask you, Lauren, like what have you noticed most around like your personality in terms of like playfulness and maybe just like acceptance and confidence, like all of those things kind of intersecting through, through this journey, like how have things shifted for you?

Lauren McGurrin (41:32)
hugely is the answer. And like I said, it's hard when it's like, and all these things, but it is a quiet source of confidence for me that I could not imagine. It's not something I need to talk about. It's just like, in the background, it's like, this is the journey. And I know who I am. So starting there with that foundation, ⁓ getting a hobby is huge. I could not

Renée Adams (41:52)
He

Lauren McGurrin (41:54)
people need to have more hobbies. getting back to, I did ceramics in high school. I was like, I need to get back to ceramics. I got back to the hobby. ⁓ just making a lot of creative work. ⁓ That is a solo hobby, just acknowledging my need for alone time. I try and go in the morning if I'm available. I don't wanna see anyone. I don't really wanna say hi. I just wanna jam out with my book on tape. ⁓

And then being able to rotate through things and also just having less less fucks to give to be honest, just if I'm not getting, you know, there's only so much patience I have for a certain conversation if neither of us are enjoying it. Yeah.

Mara DeMauro (42:36)
Mmm.

Renée Adams (42:36)
You

Mara DeMauro (42:39)
Oh my gosh, yeah hobbies. That's a huge one because you, at least, I don't know, I can't, I guess I can't speak for everyone, but Renee and I have talked about, you realize how much more time you have when it's not like, oh, yeah, my free time goes to like checking, you know, getting drinks or going to the next bar, the next bar, or you know, whatever. If that's your thing, cool. But you also realize, oh wow.

There's so much time where I could be doing things that are fun and exciting and creative. ⁓

And it's interesting because I've heard from quite a few people that they're like, I don't really know what to do. Because I'm so used to just doing that for so many years, you know? And it's like, true. So I guess what would you kind of recommend for people who are in that space of, you know, being curious about this type of journey and path who might be a little bit afraid to figure out what their hobby might be?

Lauren McGurrin (43:49)
not to jump on the bandwagon, but I did the artist way this year. Have you done it yet? Oh, see, and then I think it's killer. You gotta do it. It is a 12 week course, the artist's way, or the artist's, know, two levels. Anyhow, it is a 12 week self-guided course by a woman named Julia Cameron. I think she wrote it in the 90s.

Mara DeMauro (43:54)
Hmm?

Renée Adams (43:55)
What is

that?

Mara DeMauro (44:01)
The artist one.

Lauren McGurrin (44:15)
Um, I came through my hobbies on a different way, but man, if you want to build yourself an exciting arsenal of stuff to do, you could not imagine a better tool. So she has two non-negotiables. One of them is morning pages. So it's you write three pages first thing in the morning, no matter what you brain dump it. Yeah. And then, and that takes longer than you think. Like to this day, I, it still takes me like 40 minutes to do that. I've kind of.

Renée Adams (44:32)
I've heard of that.

Mara DeMauro (44:33)
Yes.

Lauren McGurrin (44:43)
dropped it recently to get back to meditating, but I'm sure I'll incorporate them both at some point. So the second thing is the artist's date, which is you take yourself on a two hour date alone. You can't invite anyone once a week and it's a non-negotiable. You have to do it for the 12 weeks at minimum. And that could be taking yourself to a movie. It could be reading in a coffee shop. It could be taking yourself bowling. It could be going to a museum.

walk in the woods, anything like that. But then there are cool exercises in it that are just kind of exciting at any point in your life. I can't wait to do it again next year where it's like, ⁓ name five jobs that would be interesting to you that you didn't know, or that you hadn't considered before. And think on a child level, so like scuba diver, casting director, you know what I mean? Like getting in that sort of funky space. And then the next week, there's a set of prompts and the next prompts are like,

Mara DeMauro (45:32)
Yeah.

Lauren McGurrin (45:38)
Okay, what are five other jobs you could do and then you have to dig in again or what are 20 activities that at some point in your life held some appeal for you even if they don't now. So like maybe at some point you thought, I could be skydiving. That might not fit you now, write it down. And I think that that's a really great way to kind of get into your groove and rediscover the things that might interest you.

Mara DeMauro (46:01)
Hmm. I love that because I love that it's like a tangible tool and book that people can actually go out and buy it and, know, whatever, digest it and explore with it. ⁓ I have heard of this book now I'm terrible with titles, but I've had a couple of friends who have talked about the morning pages and the artist date. I, yeah, that's, it's just so fun because it really opens it up to your imagination. And there's just so much on tapped in there that.

Renée Adams (46:02)
Well...

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mara DeMauro (46:29)
It's just like kind of sleeping, you know, and then you're like, let's explore. it's like, whoa, fucking scuba diver. Fuck yeah. Skydive instructor. Let's go. You know, now we're now we're talking. I'm excited.

Renée Adams (46:39)
You

Lauren McGurrin (46:42)
And it is, and the prompts are so helpful. Like I know prompts don't always resonate with everyone. And there are times where I'm like, I don't want to do that. No, they're like really fun, exciting prompts. And you can take them and leave them as you want. And it's really cheap. You know what I mean? It's a very inexpensive way to get in your groove. If you're like worried about money, that's you're spending less than $30 on the book.

Mara DeMauro (47:00)
Yeah.

Renée Adams (47:01)
Which is a huge, like, I'm happy that you mentioned that because I think right now there are so many different courses and things that you can take and it's like overwhelming to to research and then the investment, which it doesn't mean that, like, I think everybody should invest in their self-development in whatever shape and form. But yes, I'm happy that there is something out there that is like at a price point that's not going to absolutely like,

that you don't even have to decide or like think about. Like that is, I would say, pretty affordable for everybody. So, yeah, we'll definitely make sure to link that too.

Lauren McGurrin (47:39)
Gotta do it. I'm excited to proselytize the artist way. It's awesome. ⁓

Mara DeMauro (47:42)
Hahaha

Renée Adams (47:45)
Ooh, yeah, I'm excited for that. And I resonate that with that too, because like Mara, you're talking about like, there are some people out there that, you know, don't even know, dude, that was me. That was me. Like I had no idea what I even like to do. So I'm happy that they're just like one that we're talking about this and giving people ideas, but that there are like tools out there that people can utilize ⁓ to have some like self reflection and set aside the time for themselves.

Mara DeMauro (48:13)
Totally. And just go ahead, Lauren.

Lauren McGurrin (48:14)
Also, ⁓ go ahead.

Well, I think to some extent, I think the answer for four or six months of sobriety might actually be do nothing. Like the first six months you're not drinking, if that's the answer is just you lie on the couch every day until you feel like doing something, that's a perfectly acceptable thing. Like you've had a long life and you have a long life ahead of you. Take your time. My dog. Yeah, it's my dog. ⁓

Renée Adams (48:35)
Yeah.

Mara DeMauro (48:37)
Is there?

Renée Adams (48:38)
Yeah, do you hear that?

Mara DeMauro (48:40)
Okay.

Lauren McGurrin (48:42)
She's been really sneezy today. She's so sneezy.

Renée Adams (48:43)
it's okay. Let's see.

Mara DeMauro (48:45)
It

sounded like an inside, yeah, like a reverse sneeze. was like, I know dog sounds. Yeah. Hi, pup. Who's the pup? Peanut.

Renée Adams (48:49)
I am.

Lauren McGurrin (48:49)
you

Renée Adams (48:52)
I was like, is that chips? ⁓ hi.

Lauren McGurrin (48:54)
Yeah, no. Hi, this is this is Peanut. She's great.

She's five. Yeah, you can go you can. I know you want to leave me. No, she doesn't. ⁓ there we go. It's so important. get a dog. That's maybe that's maybe a pro tip for those. Get an animal. Yeah. So yeah, totally.

Renée Adams (49:04)
Aw, Peanut. We love all the mascots. We'll take them all.

Mara DeMauro (49:08)
Yes. My gosh. I know.

Renée Adams (49:14)
Get a dog, yeah. Get a companion.

Mara DeMauro (49:18)
Yeah. Yeah. No, but Lauren,

I was, we were both going on the, down the same path of kind of being just gentle with yourself as you, take on a totally different lifestyle change. Like, yeah, it's okay. If you're like, I don't fucking know what to do. What's a hobby. I don't want to do a hobby. I don't want to do these prompts. You know? Yeah, that's okay. That's valid to feel that way, you know? And then, well, maybe you just try it a little bit one day, you know, it's like no big deal. ⁓

Renée Adams (49:45)
Right.

Mara DeMauro (49:46)
And it slowly evolves, but in a world where things can be kind of like instantaneous and just at the snap of our fingers, we're like, want that instant gratification. At least I know I do. And damn, like it's not, it's not really realistic all the time. So.

Renée Adams (50:04)
Yeah.

Lauren McGurrin (50:04)
know,

especially during COVID, I think there was this moment where it was like, you could look around and think, I think we're much more aware five years later that social media is kind of fake to some extent, like we were talking about earlier. But like, it was like, how is everyone getting successful overnight? Like, and like, how can I do that? And I think that there's something to be said that like, is going to be completely lost in our culture, about a life built on expertise and actual experience. ⁓ And you know,

Mara DeMauro (50:20)
Yes.

Lauren McGurrin (50:32)
congratulations to anyone who finds success at any point, but like you will not have an endless capacity for doing nothing. At some point you're gonna wanna get up and ⁓ it's totally fine to wait until the moment where you wanna do that.

Mara DeMauro (50:46)
Mm-hmm.

Renée Adams (50:47)
Well,

and to I think to that point, too, of like being an expert is the both sides of, you know, trying the new thing. You don't have to be an expert at it to enjoy it. I think a lot of or at least for me, like the all or nothing mentality or the higher achiever mentality of like, OK, well, I started this thing that I've never done before, but I'm not good at it. So fuck it. I'm not going to do it. It's like, whoa, wait a second. Like you've never done it before.

It's like learning a new language for the first time, like give yourself the grace and then see if you still want to continue. But then on the flip side too of like just being an expert at something, ⁓ even if it's in the non-traditional sense, like maybe you can do something with that where it could be a full-time thing. Just that having that explorative sort of nature in mind of like, yeah, just trying things out.

because it can be hard for people, especially right now, like as an adult, you know?

Lauren McGurrin (51:47)
I think the end goal of anything, unfortunately, not to like have a glib platitude, it's like, the end goal day, at the end of the day, you get to do the work. And like, that's a really infuriating thing to hear. But it's all at the end of the day, it's about flow state and getting in it and what you learn at that process. It's not about the end result. And that sting, it's both the joy and the most frustrating part about anything. So yeah.

Renée Adams (52:12)
Yes, yeah.

Mara DeMauro (52:16)
What an

interesting ride we're on, y'all.

Lauren McGurrin (52:19)
Yeah.

Renée Adams (52:19)
I

know, it's fucking wild, fucking wild. ⁓ Well, as we sort of round out this conversation for, know, it sounds like you really have been working at a lot of different things throughout your life. And for our listeners out there who get to that point where they've either been working on something or they're just starting something and they get to that point where they're like, fuck, I don't know if I can do this anymore or.

I just don't know if it's for me, kind of that on the cusp of maybe quitting. Do you have any advice or sort of words of wisdom that have kind of gotten you through those kind of rough parts of your story?

Lauren McGurrin (53:05)
I think everyone kind of wants to know and it is glib and it's kind of like, that's it, but like, it's going to be fine. Come on in, the water's warm. Like, it's great. Like there's nothing. am very to a fault. Jump first and the net will appear at this point. Because what do you have to lose? ⁓ You know, so I think just consistently asking yourself if you really feel an inclination and an urge to do something. ⁓

maybe don't hold that back. There's probably a reason for it. Also, on the other side of the coin, hopefully I'm answering like, you know, all sides of the question, but like, I think there's a lot about the word quitting that's very triggering to people, maybe not quitting alcohol, but just quitting in general giving up. And I had a friend recently who said to me, you know, you and I were just those who like never give up. And I said, to some extent,

The best things in my life have come when I gave up on something. You don't have to cling to an idea so hard. You don't know what's on the other side. And just if you come around the corner, something might be easy for you in this way. There might be something better in this and that. And so, ⁓ yeah, I think just not finding stigma about being a quitter is very helpful. It's OK to let go.

Mara DeMauro (54:03)
Mm.

Renée Adams (54:03)
Hmm.

That's such a synchronicity, Mara. We were just talking about that. Like, do less.

Mara DeMauro (54:22)
Love that.

Mm.

Lauren McGurrin (54:26)
There we go.

Mara DeMauro (54:28)
Right. Yes.

Lauren McGurrin (54:29)
Almost always the answer.

Renée Adams (54:32)
But I'm like, wait, how do you, so then like, what do you do? I need to get some time.

Mara DeMauro (54:34)
Yeah, how do you get anything done?

Lauren McGurrin (54:38)
I've said a lot about doing nothing and I'm still, like, I get it. Like I understand. It's very, it's much easier to say than to not do.

Renée Adams (54:43)
things I gotta do.

Yeah.

Mara DeMauro (54:49)
⁓ Yeah, no, I love that. Thank you.

Renée Adams (54:53)
And what did you say before? Did you say glib? What does that mean? Am I that old?

Lauren McGurrin (54:59)
Glib,

no, it's, let me, I have, glib like, it's sort of nonce here, glib, slick, like a pat, plausible. It's like, it's something like very neat and tidy and like just a tiny little phrase that you take, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Mara DeMauro (55:01)
was wondering the same thing.

Renée Adams (55:08)
Is it like, okay, okay.

Okay.

learn something new every day. Yeah, cause

Mara DeMauro (55:19)
Love it. I just like

the gl sound. It's like a glab glib.

Renée Adams (55:21)
I, me too. I was like, Ooh, that's a cool word. I'm definitely going to use that. That's cool.

Lauren McGurrin (55:25)
Yeah.

Mara DeMauro (55:27)
Yeah!

Lauren McGurrin (55:29)
There we go. Yeah, take it away.

It's a one cent word because it's tiny, but it's a very useful one.

Mara DeMauro (55:35)
Yeah,

a little glib here and a little glib there. Sprinkle that shit around.

Renée Adams (55:36)
Glee.

Lauren McGurrin (55:39)
Yeah.

Totally.

Renée Adams (55:43)
Oh, awesome. Well, thanks so much, Lauren. We really appreciate your time again. And just I'm so excited to share your story and share Mad Flora with everybody. I'm going to be telling everyone.

Mara DeMauro (55:53)
Yeah.

Lauren McGurrin (55:54)
it

honestly it's been such a treat and I hope to see you at one of the wellness conferences that we talked about any of those things coming up and I yeah I just can't the best of luck I wish the world for you both.

Renée Adams (56:02)
Yes.

Mara DeMauro (56:09)
Yes. Well, thanks so much, Lauren. We'll chat soon.

Renée Adams (56:09)
Thank you. Thanks.

Lauren McGurrin (56:11)
Alright,

Renée Adams (56:12)
Bye.

Lauren McGurrin (56:13)
talk to you soon, bye!

Mara DeMauro (56:14)
Bye, guys.