Brother Sister Whatever
A sibling podcast for Gen X + Xennials about midlife, nostalgia, and everything adulthood forgot to warn us about.
Real talk, retro vibes, and weekly chaos — every Thursday with Lisa & Josh.
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Brother Sister Whatever
Family Dynamics: Golden Child vs. Scapegoat
We unpack the family roles we never asked for and why Gen X kids grew up in what was essentially a live-in social experiment, exploring how birth order impacts everything from our place in the family to our adult relationships.
• Birth order significantly impacts family dynamics, with oldest children "paving the way" and younger siblings often enjoying more relaxed rules
• Age gaps between siblings create entirely different childhood experiences—larger gaps can make siblings feel like they grew up in different families
• Family connections often strengthen in middle age as we realize time with parents is limited
• The golden child versus scapegoat dynamic can persist into adulthood, causing lasting pain even in our 40s
• Parenting styles have evolved from physical punishment to privilege removal and positive reinforcement
• 90s cultural touchpoints like Boyz II Men, Achy Breaky Heart, and Super Nintendo created rare moments of connection between siblings
Whether you're the rule follower or the rebel, we're here to say you're absolutely right to be mad about that thing from 1993. Keep watching, because there's plenty more dysfunction where that came from!
Thanks for hanging out with us on Brother Sister Whatever, your no-BS guide through the messy middle!
If this episode made you laugh, cringe, or question your entire existence as a GenX/Xennial — please hit subscribe and leave a review. It genuinely helps more unhinged humans find their people.
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Bring your feelings. We’ll bring ours.
You ever notice your sibling getting praised for the exact thing that you got in trouble for?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and somehow you were the one who needs to let it go.
Speaker 1:Today we're unpacking the family roles we never asked for Golden child scapegoat, forgotten middle, and why Gen X kids basically grew up in a live-in social experiment. We'll also settle a flashback Friday debate answer a sibling advice letter that's honestly heartbreaking and try to figure out who had it worse the rule follower or the rebel.
Speaker 2:We'll be rewinding to when I was the golden child. Lisa was barely holding it together, and Jurassic Park wasn't the only place someone was getting emotionally eaten alive.
Speaker 1:Well, if you've ever been told to, just let it go. Keep watching, because we're here to say nope, you are absolutely right to be mad about that thing from 1993. Let's go. Welcome to the 90s mystery. The big question, josh, is did birth order actually decide your fate in the family, or is it just what therapists want us to believe? So it's pretty simple in our family, youngest, oldest, I think- compared to you, like my mom, yeah, like one of 17 there.
Speaker 1:A little much in terms of having siblings. I barely made it with you, do you know?
Speaker 2:Okay, poor you Huh. Oh you had to suffer.
Speaker 1:The oldest paves the way. Let's just face it the oldest paves the way. Every time I had to go through the shit so that you could just sail on through.
Speaker 2:Do you mean literally? Yeah, okay, okay.
Speaker 1:They had to get all of the kinks out with me, and by the time they got to you at that stage, six years later, I was like, eh, been there, done that, it's true.
Speaker 2:It's always easier. The second one.
Speaker 1:Always easier. The second one.
Speaker 2:Second one's usually a little, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, is that what you were aiming for? No, no, not really.
Speaker 2:I was gonna say a little bit more brighter.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're hilarious. What did you think about being the youngest? What kind of advantages do you feel you got? You know what's?
Speaker 2:crazy like and I really mean this 100% I've never even thought about it once in my life, I'm not even kidding you. Not once in my life did I think about me, in the sense of my age, as a sibling Like. Not once, ever, until our podcast.
Speaker 1:So what you're saying, then, is that I'm projecting all of my onto you.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, you know the shoe fits. I mean, we were so far apart I know so you know, it's like obviously, if someone was like, do you have a sibling, I'd be well, yeah, obviously I have a sister. But like you know, like jet and fallon are like so close together, right two years apart so it's like they're they're intertwined friends. Come over, they're able to kind of yeah versus like by the time I had a friend over, you were like this age right so it was kind of like well, think about it you were starting grade one and I was starting high school yeah, it's like very different.
Speaker 1:You were starting high school and I was having my first kid.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's it. So I mean we're in a different life. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So, I feel like we've we we've connected more as adults.
Speaker 2:I almost feel like in some ways, I was an only child, not in like, not in a negative way or anything, I just mean in the sense of like, because of that spread, you know so, like it, there was almost like, uh, there was gaps, right, like when you went to pei, right and you lived in pei and you know so there was like gaps where it was like oh, okay, lisa's like doing her own, yeah, yeah, so do you feel like you were kind of maybe not forgotten, but maybe like left to your own devices more?
Speaker 2:uh, not really. I feel like there's probably a lot of parents that don't do that kind of stuff. Even in your 40s, you know, I'm sure you know.
Speaker 1:So in some ways I guess we're forever kids in their minds, right yeah, when I was like 1920 living in PEI, you and mom had moved back here already, so I was like in a different province all by myself and I like never talked to her. I think I called her at Christmas Do you know what I mean? And now, as a parent, I'm mortified. I'm like that was heartless, like at least call the woman every sunday to sell, tell her you're alive. You know what I mean, like.
Speaker 2:But I think that's normal, though I I do.
Speaker 1:I do too too.
Speaker 2:In a way, though, I think it was normal then, I don't think it's normal now yeah, like I mean, if you want to talk about that, I mean there was a bazillion gaps where I didn't talk to anyone in the family. So I mean you know there was years, yeah, but is it our generation?
Speaker 1:because I don't like. I mean now you're seeing kids living at home, still like late 20s. No, I don't think.
Speaker 2:I actually don't think it's just how we look at family us like our family in general, I mean, I think I think we are, you know we'll do anything for each other, but at the same time, at there there is a there's like this disconnect where we're okay with that, you know, and I think, um, I think a lot of people are not okay with that, and we can go a month, three months, six months without talking to someone. Now I think that that's much, much harder. Um, over the years, you know, like now it's like, you know, I want to know what's going on or this, and that I think that just has to do with you know going from your footing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and going from you know like who you are, and focusing on you and being so hyper focused on what you're doing to now kind of say like, oh shit, you know, I might only have 10 more Christmases left with them. Right, it's not a lot of time, right?
Speaker 1:Okay. So going back to like the oldest, youngest, middle child, all of that stuff, Do you find a difference raising your kids? Find a difference raising your kids. Are you acutely aware of some of the messages that you are giving in terms of that kind of thing Like family roles, youngest, oldest, that kind of stuff? Is it not even a second thought? And you don't even? I don't even think about it, don't even think about it.
Speaker 2:Maybe that's just cause I'm a guy, but you know you're still a father. What does that mean? I don't know about it.
Speaker 1:maybe that's just because I'm a guy. But you know, father, what does that mean?
Speaker 2:I don't know. You know it's, it's. It's just not something that's like for me lying, you know, I know that's a whole different topic there, but for me it's like if you lie.
Speaker 1:So let us know, were you the golden child, the scapegoat, the forgotten one, and did it ever change? We want to hear from you Now. Let's play everyone's favorite game, this or that.
Speaker 2:Are you ready? Yeah, absolutely Okay, you go, you start All right, rule follower sibling or versus rule breaker sibling.
Speaker 1:Oh, I was definitely the rule follower. Of course I was. I was too scared to break the rules. Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh well, what about you? Rule follower or rule breaker?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, I'm pretty sure I was pretty much the rule breaker.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think so too.
Speaker 2:I'm glad you agree.
Speaker 1:Here shows my envy. I was so envious of you. Okay, shotgun seat or control of the remote.
Speaker 2:Shotgun seat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I always wanted. Well, we didn't have, like like I grew up, we didn't really have a car. Um, so for me it was more like control of the remote.
Speaker 2:Man, just give me the remote all right uh oldest child pressure versus youngest child chaos well, clearly I'm gonna have the older child yeah, I'm gonna have the opposite.
Speaker 1:Doing the chore or pretending not to hear? I know your answer.
Speaker 2:I know your answer, pretending not to hear.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because, and because of that, I was always the one that did the chores. Jeez man.
Speaker 2:Jeez, oh my gosh. Okay, being mom's favorite versus being dad's favorite.
Speaker 1:I know I wasn't mom's favorite growing up, but I don't know if I could say I was dad's favorite either. I don't think dad had favorites. So are you? Are you saying that I'm? Going to say neither. I don't think I was anybody's favorite.
Speaker 2:You're talking about when I was born, Because obviously before those seven years you were just you.
Speaker 1:Okay, you keep saying this. It's six years.
Speaker 2:Six years sorry.
Speaker 1:I'm going to stick to my answer and say neither. What about you?
Speaker 2:I don't know, it's hard, it's hard to say. I feel like I had both moments of both. I feel like it was very balanced for me in my eyes, I guess. I don't feel like there was at least to me, I don't feel like there was any special treatment between the two of them to me.
Speaker 1:I don't feel like there was any special treatment between the two of them. Now, who do you think you're? You are mom's favorite or dad's favorite?
Speaker 2:Oh, I don't know, that's tough. That's tough Cause I feel like I have two completely different relationships between the two of them now, you know, and they're both great relationships, but it's hard to say.
Speaker 1:I think. I do think that I agree with you. I do think we have very different relationships. Yeah, Now I got a question for you before we move on to the next. This or that, Do you have favorites?
Speaker 2:No, I don't have favorites with my kids. I don't have favorites with my parents. I don't have favorites with anything.
Speaker 1:So you know why I think I'm not getting upset about this topic of favorites is because now, as a parent I read, I realize that favorites it's not about favorites, it's about who you're connecting with more at a certain time in life and it has nothing. It's nothing bad to do with any other person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you can be connected more at one point in life and then less than the other.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:Getting blamed versus always blaming.
Speaker 1:I'm going to say I always felt like I was getting blamed.
Speaker 2:Okay, what about you? I mean me too, but I think every child is gonna say that I know I would love to see so unfair. I would love to see a child being like oh yeah, I always blame.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, you know yeah oh my gosh um so praise with pressure or freedom, with neglect.
Speaker 2:I don't even understand that.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you got praised a lot, but it came with pressure Versus. You had a lot of freedom, but you felt neglected.
Speaker 2:I feel like my kids have so much freedom compared to us. I mean so much freedom, I mean the amount of freedom is like, oh my God, if they were living in our lives and our lives were not horrible, but if they were living in our position they would not survive.
Speaker 1:They would not survive. Okay, so let's just say freedom with neglect by default, because not that we weren't praised, but if it's praised with pressure, then we didn't have that. I don't know.
Speaker 2:We didn't have that I don't know. My memory's so wonky with this stuff. Okay, I'm telling mom versus snitches, get stitches.
Speaker 1:Well, I know what you're going to say about me, jeez, oh, oh my gosh. No, I think. Listen honestly, josh. I think, despite the one incident of 94, that we keep going back to year after year after year oh my, okay to rehash. I think we were pretty like snitches get stitches being the family therapist versus being the family ghoster.
Speaker 2:Family ghoster.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm the family therapist Heads down without even thinking.
Speaker 2:Overachiever or underdog.
Speaker 1:I'm going to say underdog what? I was never an overachiever. What are you talking about?
Speaker 2:You were an underdog.
Speaker 1:Well yeah, I was never an overachiever.
Speaker 2:I always looked at you like an overachiever.
Speaker 1:Are you serious? In what way did I overachieve as a single mother at 20? In what way? Please enlighten me.
Speaker 2:Well, shit, that was way better than my situation. Oh my goodness, At least you brought life into the world.
Speaker 1:Fuck it, christ, you're crazy. Oh my. God, josh, I swear, all right. This next one comes from a listener who's fighting the golden child curse.
Speaker 2:Oh boy.
Speaker 1:Decades later. All right, let me read this one. Dear siblings, my sister was always the golden child. Even when I succeeded, it wasn't enough. Now we're in our 40s and our parents still act like I'm the screw up, even though I'm the one helping them pay bills and manage everything. Should I confront them or let it go and keep the peace? Yeesh yeesh.
Speaker 2:I think the problem with this is that the writer is looking at success from a financial standpoint, because they're saying you know, I'm helping the parents with the bills and to manage everything, and you know the parents might not be looking at success in the same way. So I think, at least in my eyes I think it's about what they see and how they see it. So I think a conversation is definitely needed to figure out why do you say these things to me? Or why do you act this way? Because I'm doing X, y, z, and then from that they should at least be like oh well, you know, I never thought about xyz like that's not why you know, so and so I don't know.
Speaker 2:You know, that's how I look at it. You know, like success, you know some people are like you know, have no money but they have like the best work-life balance ever and they're like I'm successful, you know. And then you have others who are like you're not successful unless you have a million bucks in your bank account. Right.
Speaker 1:You're right. It depends on what success means. However, it shouldn't it shouldn't I'm not, I'm not saying it doesn't, but it shouldn't be about how or what other people think success should be. It should be what you think success is, and what I'm reading from this is that this writer is very much focusing on what they think success is.
Speaker 2:I think we're saying the same thing technically. Oh okay, you know that's how I feel, right Like you're so hyper focused on what they're doing, so it's making you feel like shit but also like or let it go and keep the peace.
Speaker 1:Keep the peace like if you confront them and say why, what is it about my success? That's not enough. For example, why would that not be a peaceful conversation? How, like, I'm wondering. Well, it depends yeah, that's.
Speaker 2:It depends on on the situation, I guess with them right. Well, you know, chances are, um, uh know, there's probably some, I don't know, some miscommunication issues over there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, clearly I'm going to get a little personal, so it's a different scenario, but I think the end is what what counts. So my oldest child went through quite a few different like really big life experiences, okay, and I, as a mother, was so focused on what did I miss, what the fuck did I get wrong? That you're, I was so focused on looking at myself and what I missed and how I felt, and what I understood and didn't understand, and what I wanted and what I didn't want, that I failed to see the human being in front of me. Okay, once I realized that, even though this was my child, essentially a part of you, right, it isn't you?
Speaker 2:Right, you don't own them.
Speaker 1:You do not own them. You obviously it's like unheard of to not have hopes and dreams for your child. Of course you are, but there has to be some sort of a division between what you would love and then the reality of it. Right, yeah, at the end of the day, I'm sure mom and dad had wonderful dreams about what we could achieve, or what they would like us to have been, or what they would like us to have been right, but I know now that both of them they look at us like successful adults.
Speaker 1:They're proud of us, of our achievements. Right, you need to kind of take a step back and realize the damage that you're doing by holding on to what you want yeah instead of just allowing what's there to flourish. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:we don't own them and um, you know we we like to pretend we do and uh, you know, but they're their own people. We brought them into the world. That's the biggest gift yeah but other than that, you know like we have to let them be yeah, like, what is the goal of parenting to?
Speaker 1:to obviously teach them things, instill good values and make them good human beings so that when they are out there in the world they can succeed and flourish and grow. Yeah, and all that stuff for them, not for us.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, of course.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I say yes, confront them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, confront them. Yeah, yeah, yeah me too because enough is enough.
Speaker 1:At this point you know you're in your 40s like yeah enough yeah and maybe that will result in walking away, having better boundary I'm not better boundaries, but maybe having more boundaries or whatever the case and and maybe a little bit of peace would be beneficial for everybody involved. Maybe I don't know, what do you think?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, no, I agree, yeah, yeah, I think there needs to be a conversation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure. Okay, time for me to finally talk about the bug incident. Back to the late 80s. Maybe you were seven or eight, so you may not remember this. I'm springing this one on you. I got in trouble with mom and you sat on her lap and said I'll never be like that. Mom, I love you.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:You pissed me off, you were annoying and I kind of killed your collection. Do you remember that? No. I've been holding this guilt for so long, Josh. No, it was really like cruel. You know, I was a very nice person. I was a very nice person. I was not a very nice person.
Speaker 2:Good to know. Good to know you're vengeful.
Speaker 1:I know right, horrible person that I am, what is one of the punishments that we got in the 90s Like a very 90s style punishment?
Speaker 2:that you wouldn't necessarily have now. The wooden spoon. The wooden spoon, yeah for sure.
Speaker 1:The belt, yeah now, we're, all you know a little softer, do you think, do you?
Speaker 2:think kids now could benefit from a little spanking. I feel like, whether you're spanking them or not, letting them watch tv, it's it's the same thing. Now, what I mean by that is is it's the same thing in the sense of like the punishment, there's a punishment. So why would I smack? You know? Why not just do the other one? Because to me, by doing the other one, there isn't going to be any of this possible backdoor drama going on trauma or whatever. So I rather just do that Like no one's going to go to therapy and be like you know.
Speaker 1:They took away my phone, yeah you know exactly right.
Speaker 2:It's about redirection. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so if I'm redirecting, like, there's no point in me doing that because it's the positive anyways, it's the positive reinforcement where they learn anyways, it's not so much about the punishment. So you're using negative reinforcement, right? You're taking something away from them. So by taking something away, you're hoping that the behavior changes, and so you still need to focus on the positive reinforcement, versus if you're smacking them, it's positive punishment, right. So you're adding something in order to try and you know, remove the behavior. So I try to take away something because I stay in that positive reinforcement quadrant as opposed to yeah, as opposed to being physical. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So, yeah. Because then there's possible fear, and then when we're dealing with fear now we're dealing with not being communicative, right, and and other things kind of come to play, and then if the only reason why my kid is not doing something is because he's going to get whipped, then in my opinion that just creates more trauma.
Speaker 1:I have a question for you do you think having a little bit of fear for your parent is a good thing? Yeah, but it doesn't have to be that kind of fear, no, no I understand, yeah, but when you think, having a little bit of fear for you like what does that mean?
Speaker 2:What it means. Yeah, but like it's like. It's like being a black belt in something. You're not just going to go on the street and high kick someone in the face.
Speaker 2:Because you can yeah face because you can, yeah, but but you know, when they know that you could, right, and when you know you could, you know it's. It's about kind of containing that monster and not letting it out, but knowing that I could if I wanted to. And I think that that is what our kids need to understand, not that we're gonna kick them, but in the sense that, like you know, in the sense of you did something wrong and I give you the look and I'm like why did you do that? And then understanding that I'm containing the monster within to have this conversation, but yet you know like fear me, you know like to like to to it to to a degree, but not, I don't know, not in like a weird way, just in a, in a, in a normal parent way yeah kind of thing yeah, back in the day, when we were growing up, we had, there was a certain amount of fear, there was a certain amount of respect given.
Speaker 1:That, I think, is missing now. Okay, let's go to Pop Culture Rewind, year 1992. Josh was 8. Yeah. I was 15. 14. 14.
Speaker 2:See, even you got the same years.
Speaker 1:So music. End of the road. Boyz II Men. Do you remember Boyz II Men?
Speaker 2:I do remember Boyz II Men.
Speaker 1:Baby Got Back.
Speaker 2:Criss Cross. I remember, yes.
Speaker 1:You know what? I think that was the one song that you and I both liked at the same time, and we used to like sing it together, right? Yeah. Do you remember? That yeah. I think I do good memories, okay. And uh, billy ray cyrus, even though none of us really liked country, neither one of us really liked country. Achy, breaky heart it's. You gotta remember that song. Yeah, like who doesn't you know, okay, there was melrose place. There was batman, the animated series, barney and friends. Uh, home alone.
Speaker 2:2 oh my gosh, yes uh, and wayne's world.
Speaker 1:Do you remember wayne's world?
Speaker 2:well, that was with keanu reeves. No, I'm thinking of um, i'm'm thinking of the other one with Keanu. Reeves no no, Keanu Reeves had a TV show.
Speaker 1:Oh, oh, with the telephone booth and the poster Hobbit, right here, the Adventures of Bill and Ted. Oh, that was it I knew it was the Adventures of something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, bill and Ted, excellent Adventures. Yes, 1989. Yeah, oh my God.
Speaker 1:I had such a crush on him oh well, Keanu Reeves is great. Good old days he's the best. Totally tubular. Yeah, flannel shirts with Doc Martens, slap bracelets, of course, and Super Nintendo was the hottest gaming system.
Speaker 2:I wanted one so bad until we finally got one.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But it was a little bit later.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Wow, all right. Good one. Yeah, but it was a little bit later. Yeah, wow, all right.
Speaker 2:Good one Good. That's a wrap on another episode of Nostalgic Sibling Chaos.
Speaker 1:If this episode made you question your family role or your sibling's memory, you are not alone.
Speaker 2:We've got plenty more dysfunction. Where that came from? Let me tell you.
Speaker 1:So, whether you're listening or watching, keep going Double dare.
