Lessons from the Ketoverse

These influencers transformed how we approach keto and carnivore living

• Graham • Season 1 • Episode 10

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Discover the voices that revolutionized the ketogenic and carnivore movements in this deep dive into the influencers who shaped our personal health journeys. From world-renowned physicians to everyday heroes who overcame their own health struggles, these are the pioneers who challenged conventional wisdom and offered life-changing alternatives.

Influencer list with links:

  1. Shawn Baker MD @ShawnBakerMD
  2. Anthony Chaffee MD @anthonychaffeemd
  3. Sally K Norton @sknorton
  4. Dr. Eric Berg DC  @Drberg
  5. KenDBerryMD  @KenDBerryMD
  6. Dr. Bret Scher Metabolic Mind @metabolicmind
  7. Nick Norwitz @nicknorwitzMDPhD
  8. Dr. Georgia Ede - Change Your Diet Change Your Mind - https://a.co/d/fce8dbC
  9. Laura Spath  @LauraSpath
  10. Dr Tony Hampton @DrTonyHampton 
  11. Dr. Hampton's Food Guide: https://www.dietdoctor.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Dr-hampton-Keto-Handout-with-colors.pdf
  12. HomeSteadHow @Homesteadhow
  13. Dr. Sten Ekberg  @drekber
  14. Joanne Ozug - The Road to Carnivore Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-road-to-carnivore/id1565058210
  15. Dr Fung - @DrJasonFung
  16. Glucose Goddess - Jesse Inchauspe - @GlucoseRevolution
  17. Dr Attia - @PeterAttiaMD
  18. Dave Asprey - @DaveAspreyBPR

We explore Dr. Sean Baker's groundbreaking work as both a surgeon and elite athlete, explaining how his Rivero Clinic is creating a new paradigm for metabolic health care. Learn why Dr. Jason Fung's insights on intermittent fasting and diabetes reversal resonated so profoundly with Stephen's health journey. Discover the provocative perspective of Dr. Anthony Chafee, who dares to question whether plants truly deserve their universal health halo.

For practical implementation, we highlight Jessie Inchauspé (the Glucose Goddess) and her accessible strategies for managing blood sugar, along with Sally Norton's eye-opening research on oxalates and their potential impact on inflammatory conditions. The methodical explanations from Dr. Berg and straightforward common sense from Dr. Ken Berry demonstrate how different teaching styles can reach people wherever they are on their health journey.

Perhaps most fascinating is the common thread woven through all these influencers' stories—almost universally, they discovered these nutritional approaches through personal crisis or watching their patients continue to deteriorate under conventional care. Their authentic experiences and genuine desire to share knowledge stands in stark contrast to the profit-driven nutrition advice so prevalent today.

Whether you're new to ketogenic eating, a seasoned carnivore, or simply curious about metabolic health, this episode will introduce you to trusted voices who can guide different aspects of your journey. And remember—you're never alone in this process. There's a thriving community of people who have walked this path and are eager to help others experience the same transformation.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to Lessons from the Keto-Verse. Join Stephen and Graham as they explore the keto lifestyle with tips, science and stories to boost your health. This podcast isn't medical advice. Consult your healthcare advisor for any health-related issues. Get ready to fuel your primal power.

Graham:

Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Lessons from the Keto-Verse. For this episode, stephen and I thought we would go back in time and take a look at which influencers whether it be YouTube or any social media that have had the biggest impact on our keto carnivore journey. So you know, these people are influencers, as they say, who have the biggest influence on us over the years. Stephen and I did not do this journey all on our own. We had a lot of materials out there, whether it was video or reading or books. There's actually quite a thriving community around the ketogenic or carnivore diets much, much more than much more than even 10 years ago. It's actually surprising how much this has grown, even over the last couple of years. Stephen, say hi to everybody and feel free to comment.

Stephen:

Yeah, I actually agree. Hi everyone, it's Stephen. Good to be here for another podcast with Graham and yeah, it's interesting, as we said in one of our original podcasts, I believe no-transcript, but they all resonated with us enough to want to mention them on today's podcast.

Graham:

So I'll kick it off with who I think is probably the or one of the OG original gangsters of carnivore influencers, and that is Dr Sean Baker. So a little background on Dr Sean Baker. He's a world champion athlete, an incredible rower In his late 60s. He's actually broken records. He's also a surgeon with a pretty incredible career. I highly recommend listening to his podcast as he is very transparent about his journey, what he's done as a surgeon in the military as well as in private practice.

Graham:

And I think one of the things that is going to be a common theme throughout this podcast is these influencers found out about this themselves first. For the most part, they certainly would have had some support as well, but a lot of them have been pioneers in this journey and in a lot of cases you'll hear the stories from them saying I knew something was wrong. I knew I needed to change it. The current way I was eating wasn't working for me and I had to make a change. And they were kind enough to share that information with others, and it has benefited literally hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people at this point.

Graham:

So Dr Baker one of the things I like about him, he brings a real humility and a search for the truth to his podcasts and videos. He's the author of maybe the original carnivore book called the carnivore diet, in which, which he sold an incredible number of copies. I like him because he's about six foot seven, probably 280 pounds, all muscle, but comes across as somebody who's, like I said, got some humility about him, doesn't claim to have all the answers. It is the right thing to do to spread awareness based on what he's learned, even when that awareness is controversial, as it can be with the keto and carnivore lifestyles. Anybody who's gone down this path knows that the reactions can be pretty entertaining, and we've covered that off in a previous podcast and I'm sure we'll talk about that in the future.

Graham:

Something that he started more recently because he realized that people who wanted to go down this journey were getting pushback from their healthcare professional, and so we're not here to say don't listen to your healthcare professionals, just the opposite they are an important element in anybody's health. But he started something called the Rivero Clinic in the US and he put together hundreds of clinicians who specialize in keto and carnivore metabolic health, and the idea of starting this clinic was we're not going to solely rely on drug interventions, as is normally the case in the healthcare system. We're also going to look at a holistic approach to people's diet, their exercise, their sleep, their ability to manage stress, all of the things that we know along the journey that are pretty critical to helping people along that journey get a little better every single day. Stephen, any comment on Dr Sean Baker or we can jump to someone who's had a big impact on you.

Stephen:

Sure, let's go to the first one on my list. Where I was initially inspired was Dr Fung. He's actually a Toronto nephrologist and, yes, I had to look up nephrologist initially when I read his first book to find out what that was all about. And, of course, that's a doctor that's focused on the health of the kidneys and specifically his area of interest was dealing with patients that were facing kidney transplant, was dealing with patients that were facing kidney transplant low expectation of survival and there was a bit of an epiphany that he experienced, graham, when he was working with people with very severe consequences of diabetes. And, of course, as a diabetic myself, I was very interested in how one of the top line things he promotes is type 2 diabetes is a lifestyle disease that can be reversed. And one of his points of inspiration actually ironically for a man as smart as he is was actually his patients, because one of his patients had said to him Doc, if what you're doing is working out so good and the things you're telling me to do are so and this was pre-intermittent fasting, but this is how he discovered intermittent fasting for his patients. He's saying, doc, if this stuff is whatintermittent fasting, but this is how he discovered intermittent fasting for his patients. He was saying, doc, if this stuff that you have us doing, the dialysis and the drugs and everything else, how come I'm getting fatter and more sick? And that really struck him and I thought that was inspiring and he was very transparent as a physician that he was limited to some extent to what he was allowed to do in accordance with the OMA and so forth.

Stephen:

But he started to color outside the lines and do his own research and discovered, as we've talked about before, that intermittent fasting was a part of the lifestyle, even if you take the spiritual component of it out and you just focus on how people lived. If you were a farmer, the likelihood of you going through the day fasting and burning off all those calories is pretty, pretty, pretty high because you're not coming in until the fields are cleared and the sun's going down and the tractor's back in the barn. So there's an example of a 12-12. He was a big promoter of the 16-8. And if you look at some of his podcasts, he's had very exceptional athletes on some of his podcasts where they asked the question you know, am I going to lose muscle if I go into, you know, two, three days of intermittent fasting.

Stephen:

So that's one edge of what he's talked about. But he's also, as a doctor, monitored a gentleman that went over 300 days. We're not prescribing that, you do that. We're describing what he had said in his book and this individual was able to get back to a normal weight by cutting out all the sugars, being monitored by his physician, who was a doctor, and had massive improvements in health outcomes blood screening, kidney function, etc. So, yeah, he was the very first one that inspired me.

Graham:

Yeah, and you've mentioned this a number of times on the podcast. I've actually subscribed to his YouTube channel. Excellent information, highly recommend it. Next person on my list again no particular order Dr Anthony Chafee. What can I describe about Dr Anthony Chafee? Advanced knowledge of medicine backs up his knowledge with an incredibly healthy lifestyle healthy lifestyle. He's played professional rugby on the world stage while doing carnivore, and actually he did it. He tried it without a carnivore. More of a sort of standard American diet Could not perform nearly as well, which was really interesting to watch.

Graham:

Somebody you know with such a high level of fitness and attention to professional detail around professional rugby attention to professional detail around professional rugby. He's a neurosurgeon. He can walk the line between introductory knowledge and very advanced metabolic medicine. He might be best known for maybe a shocking comment around plants are trying to kill you. He tells a great story about this, much better than I can, but essentially, when he was in medical school he had a very influential professor who said I don't feed my kids vegetables. I don't think I should eat vegetables. They all have toxins in them to ward off predators. It was, you know. In his opinion, it's worthwhile investigating these toxins and the effect that they potentially have on our bodies.

Graham:

I know there's this general consensus that all sort of approved vegetables the ones you might find at the grocery store are 100% good for you and in no way bad for you. I think that simplifies things, and we'll talk about other influencers on this list that go into detail about this, but I would say Anthony Chafee. Dr Anthony Chafee is somebody who knows his stuff so well that he's almost a sort of graduate influencer, somebody that you might start with and we'll talk about this in a bit Dr Ken Berry, who has this knack for explaining things in a basic way even though it's very complex, and with Dr Chafee he really gets into the advanced metabolic side of things what particular elements in our society, whether it be food or not, can have an influence. And he comes across as just such an incredibly nice guy, somebody that you'd be happy to have a coffee and chat with, and he has been a great influencer. I've probably listened to 250 of his podcasts while walking around the neighborhood and he has definitely made a mark on my journey in a positive way.

Stephen:

Yeah, that's a great endorsement, Absolutely the humility side of it. I certainly resonate. And my my next choice actually on the list is Dr Anthony, is not one that I've specifically followed other than what you've suggested specifically followed other than what you've suggested, but for me it's got to be what people typically call the Jessie the glucose goddess. She's one of my personal favorites. That's Jessie Nuchospe and I apologize, Nuchospe is, I believe, the appropriate pronunciation in French. She is actually a bioscientist by trade. They call her the glucose goddess because her focus primarily is around how to manage insulin resistance and to eliminate glucose spikes.

Stephen:

Like if you were forced into an elevator pitch about Jessie, that would probably be the two main things, Graham, that I would say about her. And why I like her is because I'm a keto you're a carnivore, so when I'm approaching my diabetes with the food that I'm consuming, getting a whole spectrum of good foods into my system. I was very interested and intrigued by her conversation around two core things. One, ACV, apple cider vinegar, which is taking in with eight ounces of water, and I do it also with lemon.

Stephen:

If you are exposed, she's a big expert on carbohydrates and reducing carbs in the diet. But if you're exposed to a meal where you're required to eat carbs because of family obligations, with friends, or just a very limited menu which happens, as we both know, friends, or just a very limited menu, which happens, as we both know Then one of the things you can do actually is consume eight ounces of water with a tablespoon or two of ACV. Add the lemon if you wish. I do, and that will take, and I repeat, 3% to 75% of the spike out of your sugar. And because I wear a CGM, I've tested this and it does work.

Stephen:

I don't eat a lot of carbs, but when I do, or if I'm forced to, I make sure that I have the ACV and I'll go flat. Now, an hour, an hour and a half later, it'll start to rise, but not to a spike, whereas if I forget and I'm exposed to something or I'm not paying attention to what I'm consuming, then obviously it goes much higher. So I really like that strategy. The other thing she talks about resonates with my ethnicity, because in my family we always ate the salad first and then there was a space of time and then we consumed the main meal. And what's interesting is what a lot of restaurants do is they'll actually feed you bread first and then they'll bring your salad and then they'll bring you your main course. The problem with the bread is, within 15 or 20 minutes you're getting a sugar spike which tends to make you overeat and order more food.

Stephen:

So what she speaks to is called stacking, and also she uses the expression I think it's to make sure people are paying attention of naked carbs is not to consume carbs by themselves. Have them coupled with a protein, a healthy fat, like Greek yogurt, and again you'll normalize those spikes. You'll take those spikes out by not eating in isolation. So I really applaud her for her research because it's all backed by papers that she understands in ways of meta analysis and longitudinal studies in a way that I wouldn't necessarily understand, but she does, and she, much like your previous example, explains it in very simple terms, kind of like the way that Ken Berry does. There are other folks on our list you and I both have them where they'll get into mitochondria, telomeres, cell division, antophagy and other more sophisticated terms. But I like the fact that you go on a TikTok and in 10 seconds or 12 seconds you get a new tip on something you can employ today in your diet management and your glucose management.

Graham:

Excellent. And next one on my list is someone by the name of Sally K Norton. This was not somebody that I had caught early on, but I had talked to, and she was interviewed by Dr Anthony Chafee and a number of other influencers that I admired and respected. And that's often how these things happen you end up attaching yourself to influencers that you feel and respected, and that's often how these things happen. You end up attaching yourself to influencers that you feel like you have a connection with, they're speaking your language or they are the right person at the right time on your journey to kind of guide you with. You know as much information that will help you achieve whatever goal you have. And Sally wrote a book called Toxic Superfoods. You know really interesting title, and I did end up reading the book. You know a lot of these books. I ended up binging while I was walking and, for those that don't love to sit still and read, I'm a big fan of getting out there and going for a walk in the neighborhood and listening to books. You know, audible or whatever. Wherever you get your audio books from, reading them is fantastic too. Sally actually did the dictation for this book, so that was really interesting to hear her own words with her voice.

Graham:

Toxic Superfoods is all about going into a great deal of detail about what potential toxins might be in certain foods, mainly vegetables, and this goes back to the connection with Dr Anthony Chafee. She goes into an incredible amount of detail on things like oxalates, which I had never heard of until I stumbled upon this book. It actually explained a number of things around. When you start out on a keto or a carnivore diet, what can happen is you have this keto flu, as people call it. One of the causes of that is you're flushing a lot of water that has been kept in the body and the cells and the body is finally ready to get rid of that water because it no longer needs it anymore. One of the things that happens there is you can lose electrolytes, which are critical to the body's function, and so backfilling with some really good electrolytes can be important, and she goes into some detail there.

Graham:

But she goes into an incredible amount of detail around oxalates, and oxalates are something that the body has a very, very hard time getting rid of. They are on a lot of very common vegetables that you would find in the grocery store, whether it be spinach, sweet potatoes, cashews, almonds, beets it's a long list and actually in the book she gives you a long list of the foods with oxalates, for example. So she has a lot of information that you can actually take home with you and use, and she talks about the amount of oxalates in each of these foods Spinach, for example. If you're having a spinach smoothie every single day, I highly recommend reading this book just to get some education on what those oxalates can potentially do, whether it causes joint pain, inflammation or even kidney stones, which is something that, again, I had not heard of until I read this book.

Graham:

Very, very an excellent book to read. A lot of information in it, and she was certainly somebody you know, I've listened to over the years and that book has played a big part in me choosing the kind of foods I eat and how much of those foods I eat. Stephen.

Stephen:

That's a really good example. I'll have to look into that myself. On oxalates, because you know, as a keto person, I use a lot of olive oil with any salads. I make everything by scratch and purchase, whenever possible, Local produce. I deal with local farmers. I today picked up some vegetables at the local Mennonite location, where I know where it's from field to fork Same with the meats that they have in there are quite excellent along with my butcher who gets some of the same locales for his meats.

Stephen:

So I'm definitely keen to read more about that and, as I say, for me in particular, I try to make sure anything that I consume is complementing my gut bacteria, which it might be appropriate for me to jump my list a little bit and settle in on Dr Berg, who is one of my personal favorites, and the reason why I'm such a huge fan of him is again that dimension of humility. I do find it somewhat of a challenge now that he can't be as transparent because the algorithms are blocking his videos and preventing him from saying certain things, but I guess what I really appreciated about him, particularly as an initiate in dealing with my diabetes, is the fact that he explains things well. I'm pretty scientifically oriented when it comes to that kind of information. I'm by no means a doctor, but I like the way in which he explains how things work, because I learn better understanding that and then I apply it. So for me, the way he explains things for instance, what statins would do, how they can contribute to muscle wasting and then I see it in my own parents who've been taking statins for decades Things like that that he speaks to and gives you alternatives that are more natural, without the side effects, and that's a big I think that's a big aspect of what Dr Berg does for me is to give me the option to look at things that are not ozempic, for instance, to lose weight but look at anti-inflammatory foods, look at your gut health and make sure that you're not suffering from different forms of lactosaccharides, for instance, One of the key things that you had mentioned concerning intermittent fasting.

Stephen:

That can happen as well, not just in terms of electrolytes, but also that the wrong consequences and I see it in cortisol with me specifically, if my gut health isn't balanced properly and my gut, call them, the gut bugs are distressed or just stressed, that's actually contributing to cortisol and obviously impacting your ability to properly process the foods that you're taking in anyway. So if, for instance, you are eating spinach, as I do, and other things, you want to have a bulletproof belly, you know, taking full advantage of all the goodness that's in it, and have the mechanisms in place to deal with anything that may or may not be what you expected and you and I can't see in that purchase. That's what I really enjoy about Dr Berg. How about you? I know you're a fan as well. Grant.

Graham:

Yeah, this is one that we both came up with independently. Dr Berg, I mean, he is really well known. I think I checked today just to remind myself, 13 million subscribers on YouTube, 5,000 videos that he's put out, and you know I often listen to him on a podcast, whether it be Spotify, apple podcast or wherever you listen to him, I'm sure he's everywhere. What I like about him is he covers a wide array of topics, whether it's improved sleep, how to optimize how your skin looks and feels, what foods and supplements you may want to take to see if you can reduce or even fix certain ailments that you might be experiencing, like reducing inflammation, for example, certain ailments that you might be experiencing, like reducing inflammation, for example. Like the other people we've listed, they've personally benefited from their journey. He often goes into detail about how he was getting more and more metabolically sick as time went on, and he has dedicated himself to trying to share that information with others. One big benefit I suppose with Dr Berg is videos or audio podcasts are quite short. A lot of times they're, you know, less than 10 minutes. He gets right to the point and he covers such a wide array of topics, but if you listen to him long enough, you start to see that there's a connection in the things that he talks about. So and I mean this in a good way he will repeat himself in different videos, coming at it from different angles. It's a great strategy and somebody that I constantly listen to and, you know, add to my long list of things to try and do. So next on my list, this is somebody who was a big influence to me right at the beginning. This is Dr Ken Berry, fairly well-known a doctor that has got into the carnivore way of life again because he had experienced metabolic problems as he got older, closer to our age, and he decided he was going to try something different and ended up trying something different. So he's extremely well-known in the carnivore space. You know Sean Baker, anthony Chafee as well. All the people we mentioned are going to be relatively well known in this space, and if I had to pick one person that I would recommend to start with.

Graham:

If you're thinking about this journey and again it might just be that I want to learn something new, I want to learn something different it doesn't mean you have to listen to what you. It doesn't mean you have to follow what you listen to, but you just want to get educated in what's going on from an actual doctor who's not only tried to try this lifestyle himself and been very successful. He's willing to talk about it and he has also helped thousands and thousands, tens of thousands of people get better over time, and he has a ton of stories that he shares, as well as a ton of interviews of people sharing their stories and the success that he's looked at. What I like about him is he has this knack for breaking down complex issues into simple pieces of information that are kind of easy to digest.

Graham:

No pun intended, I would say, just a common sense approach. That really resonated with me and my wife as well. It's pretty clear he genuinely cares about his patients, and that's a theme throughout this. He was tired of seeing them get worse and wanted to do something about somebody that I admire a lot, somebody that has a knack for delivering information in a way that makes total sense and has genuine humility when it comes to people's journeys and how difficult it can be, and I found him to be a real prize of information in my journey. I think he might have been on your list even as well.

Stephen:

Yeah, dr Ken Berry, it's like one of the things I think we may have shared in the past with readers, but I'll just touch on again Again. I like looking at the backstories of the people. Like pretty much everyone I've mentioned has, either through a patient or by their own experience, been in the same boat as you and I, which is remarkably common. You know, I hear Ken many times talk about SAD. You know, the situation in the US is SAD. That's a standard American diet. It's making everyone sick. Well, it's a North American diet because it applies to both the US and Canada, for sure, and, I think, a lot of Western countries. The quality of food is really not there.

Stephen:

But I love his backstory where he, as a doctor, you know, was prescribing metformin and doing all the things that he was instructed to do as per the US Diabetes Association. He's now created his own association, which is not the Diabetes Association. He's created his own why? Because he was very, very frustrated with what it was they were promoting and the irony of ironies, like he, I saw what is probably my favorite podcast of the list of everyone. He said hey, people would tell me, doc, I feel worse, like I don't feel better. I'm taking those pills. I got all kinds of side effects and he said I would look at them and go well, you know what In my head he said I wasn't saying it to them, they're just not taking the pills properly. There's other things they're doing that they're not telling me. It's their own fault.

Stephen:

All that changed when he was either pre-diabetic or diabetic and went uh-oh. And then when he started doing the same for himself as he was doing for his patients, he suddenly got more sick and really sick, and realized you know, I was selling a bill of goods to my patients, which he has obviously a high degree of ethics. He was only promoting what he was told to promote and what he was taught. He didn't know what he didn't know, but when he experienced it, he quickly vectored in a different direction and that's something I admire.

Stephen:

Certainly he's more carnivore than keto, but he does speak to both. So don't be afraid, as a starting point is a keto person as well. He does speak to that and you'll see that whatever works for you will be able to adjust. To myself, he's definitely more in your face when it comes to uh, you know, going against the grain and tell them the, the poison food purveyors that are right there, that they're offside and they shouldn't be doing what they're doing and they're hurting people. He's not afraid to say that, whereas I think you and I would agree, dr berg's approach is a little bit more more laid back and I would say he is not quite as militant about conveying his thoughts. I see him more as a coach than I do as a health practitioner, even though he has all of the credentials. So that's my two cents.

Graham:

Yeah, agreed, and the American Diabetes Society that he has started. I don't have any more recent updates on that, but I like the fact that he's calling out the Diabetes Association. On some of the things that to me don't make a lot of sense, like how much you know big food donates to the Diabetes Association, he's very transparent about the fact that you know no food companies are going to influence what they have to say, and I'm looking forward to seeing where that ends up. I think the motivation is definitely in the right direction. Over to you next on your list, stephen.

Stephen:

Yeah, I just want to briefly bring up Dr Accia. I've heard him recommended and seen him, consequently, on podcasts, if ever there was a question. If Google's listening, for sure they are, because I start getting push notifications now that I'm reading his book. And one of the things that is simple but profound to me and often the most simplest things are the most profound is he speaks to the culture of where we look at saying, hey, graham, I want to live to 100. And he's more in the longevity side of things. And he's more in the longevity side of things and he's saying, hey, who wants to live to their 100 and the last 19 years of their life be absolutely miserable, where they have to be craned up out of their bed and put into a wheelchair and then craned back up and put into their bed. That's not a quality of life. So one of the important things that he focuses on, which really aligns with my mindset, which is a holistic approach to everything, be it meditation, diet, sleep, reducing alcohol, reducing cortisol or cortisol related stressors.

Stephen:

He is very much into healthspan. So he looks at okay, you know, you can't go in and have an amazing meal and then sit down and have two packs of smokes. It doesn't work like that. One isn't going to counter the other and balance out. It doesn't work like that.

Stephen:

We're an ecosystem and for so many years in medicine we've looked at the body like it's a machine. It's not a Corvette engine. It can't be tuned up the same way as simply changing the oil and the valve sleeves and everything's good and it runs great again. Because the damage that we do to our bodies we talked previously about a different author and psychiatrist the body keeps the score. The body does keep the score, so you don't want to have too many goals against if you want to keep a w. And he talks about that whole health span and he's also, if you've ever seen him, he's also in very good physical condition. He lives his values the same way as Dr Berg and Dr Berry and definitely more of a quality of life. I would say quality of life and life health span instead of lifespan, kind of a practitioner.

Graham:

Yeah, I finished his most recent book, Top of my head. Can't remember the name of it you might remember Steven but found it to be very informative. He's got a great way of delivering the information and clearly has spent a lot of time thinking about the topics that he discusses, so definitely somebody to check out.

Stephen:

Yeah, just do a quick search on healthspan versus lifespan. And, dr Adia, it's A-T-T-I-A and that'll pull up the book that you're referencing. But I read it a few months ago and I don't recall what the cover title was, but it's something close to that.

Graham:

Yeah, might have the word longevity in it. Regardless, we're going to leave links to all the people that we talk about today, so you can find them on YouTube and, obviously, google any information that you'd like to find on them, should any of them resonate with you. Next on my list is somebody by the name of Dr Brett Scher, b-r-e-t, and the last name is S-C-H-E-R. He works for a company called the Metabolic Mind, which is a research-based institute trying to fund research that will help people understand the impact of foods on metabolic health and mental health, and I think there's going to be a theme with a couple of people.

Graham:

Here is as I started on this journey, there was a goal to try and fix my blood work and get myself back into a spot where I wasn't going to be issued diabetes medicine. Down the road, I could see the tea leaves and I could see where I was going, and I didn't want to go down that path, and that was my wake up call as I dug into the potential impacts that a change in your eating lifestyle can have. Specifically, around the ketogenic or the carnivore diet is the impact on mental health, and we've actually talked about this a number of times. Interestingly, the metabolic mind is founded by the Buzuki Group, and the Buzuki Group B-A-Z-U-C-K-I was founded by the gentleman who invented Roblox R-O-B-L-O-X. The online game made a ton of money, obviously was very successful decided to use some of that money to do some actual research on the impact of metabolic health, as well as mental health, on the way you eat. I think this is so important because, as we probably know, most of the funding of these things come from big food and big pharma and there's a reason for that they're incredibly expensive to do properly. So you know, double-blind placebo type research is incredibly expensive, takes a long time, and this is something that Dr Brett shares on a regular basis, and he comes across as somebody who's very inquisitive about different topics. You can probably search him and search a mental illness or some kind of mental challenge that people have, and the Bazooka group may be looking at solutions to this, and he actually talks about real world solutions that may or may not have a positive impact, but they're not difficult to do. I remember he had talked to a researcher who had found out that for those people that are suffering from dementia and it may be specific kinds of dementia, but people who are suffering from dementia. When they started to introduce coconut oil or MCT oil, which is kind of the core fat of coconut oil, there was a direct improvement on the dementia of those patients. And I think, well, that's a pretty easy thing to try. You know, we know for the most part coconut oil can be very healthy. And he just comes up with these things and I always find it very interesting. So Dr Brett Scher is somebody that you know, definitely one of those modern scientific study researchers who you know actually partakes in research that produces outcomes that aren't going to benefit anybody other than the patients that may benefit from a change in diet.

Graham:

And I'm going to sort of tie this one with the following individual, because they're very similar but they come at things from a different perspective, I would say. So the next one is Nick Norwitz, n-o-r. Nick is a or Dr Norwitz is a Harvard-trained MD and he also has a PhD from Oxford. So definitely one of the smartest people you'll ever come across. Very young, I'm going to guess. He's in his mid to late 20s.

Graham:

Has a ton of enthusiasm around all matters metabolic health, as I said, incredibly smart, digs into the minute details around the impact of metabolic health and food. He does some fun things, you know, on purpose, catches some shocking headlines. He did one a couple of months ago where he just ate a ton of Oreo cookies to prove that he could lower his LDL. And he talks a lot about statins and he talks a lot about how we may not be coming at these things from all the angles that we need to. So if you're looking for somebody who's really advanced, if you yourself is a, you know, top-notch researcher and you'd love to get into those, that level of details or that advanced level of detail, nick Norwitz is somebody that I highly recommend checking out. Steve.

Stephen:

Yeah, it's interesting. We've covered a number of issues, but just going back to gut health, just a few weeks ago Dwayne the Rock Johnson came clean about issues he was having with his stomach, which mimic exactly what I was feeling and in my case, as we talked about in the past, I had four dysbiotic bacteria that had to be killed and that was the result of a stool test. And then, concurrent with that, I consume what they call baker's yeast or digestive yeast, and chia and flax seeds and other things to promote good gut health, along with Greek yogurt that has high fat and near zero sugar, or the lowest possible sugar I could find. So what's interesting is he was bouncing around doctors as well and ended up in front of a relatively famous one in the US, and that's when they discovered through these tests that in fact, his issue was that the past use of antibiotics had permanently destroyed I should say permanently, but up until that point it was permanent and he didn't know why he felt so bad and, as he said, he had like nine months of potential filming for the next film that he was going to be doing and he wasn't sure how he was going to do it.

Stephen:

I am totally in that camp. I can totally relate to what he's saying. There were days I wasn't sure how I was even going to be able to get downtown for a meeting and get back again without just literally not eating, you know, for one, two, three days, and that's, by the way, that's not intermittent fasting, that's forced fasting under stress, which is going to raise your cortisol, not the way to go about it. So, as it turned out, they discovered that he had these dysbiotic bacteria or underdeveloped bacteria, and then got that rectified. So it's interesting that even famous people like that have everyday, normal issues that we have because we're all consuming the same sort of foods, we're all under stress and even if you're the rock, your stomach isn't made of rock. It could be your weakness.

Graham:

It's funny you mentioned that too, because I've heard a number of people that are connected to call it Hollywood or the music industry, and you see people losing weight and you automatically think they're on Ozempic, because that's what everybody's doing. But what's really interesting is they'll say you know what I'm not going to go into detail about the names because I'm friends with these people and they are they're very much deep inside these industries and they'll come back and say, without mentioning names, there are so many people that have gone carnivore or ketovore to try and avoid getting on medications to see whether they can get results. And they're getting results. But they may not be telling anybody. They're doing it because they have careers that they need to worry about.

Graham:

Obviously, the public perception of them goes a long way to whether they're going to make money or not. So, to your point, you can be a millionaire or somebody just making ends meet and you're going to have very similar health issues if we eat in a similar way. I think we have the next one in common. Did you want to lead us off with Dr Sten Ekberg? Stephen, I think we have the next one in common. Did you want to lead us?

Stephen:

off with Dr Sten Ekberg. Stephen, yeah, for sure, thank you. I believe Sten, if memory serves correctly, is an Olympian, so right away he has massive physical health street creds. So if you're an elite athlete, why not listen to an elite athlete who's also a doctor and he is definitely more, in my mind at least more of a bioscientist as well? He is very effective with his call it whiteboards or clear boards, where he will make out cells and show you what a telomere is and how a cell dies. He'll get into deep dyes, into antophagy, as a result of fasting.

Stephen:

What kicks you out of fasting? He doesn't necessarily focus as much on, just say, for instance, diabetes, although I have watched specific videos on that. Again, he is more in my mind, more looking at healthspan and saying these are the things that you need to do. This is what orange juice is doing to you in the morning, for instance, if you're consuming it, and this is how many hours you're going to continue to be metabolically challenged to get your sugar back under control. Obviously, I don't consume orange juice. There are other things that can make my sugar do that. So I really like him. He's very typical European if you've ever had a European professor style approach to teaching. It's methodical, it's well thought out, it's thorough, but it doesn't have the same kind of passion that Ken Berry feels like he'll reach right through your screen if he catches you with a disgusting plate of fries or something like that, whereas Ekberg is more of a cerebral approach to teaching you what's actually going on in your body. So different approaches, equally effective, and I like them both for different reasons.

Graham:

Yeah, it's a great overview and, unlike Dr Berg that we talked about earlier, this is Dr Sten Ekberg. Again, we'll link all the details in the show notes Incredibly well thought out videos and he explains the way he sort of introduces something, the way he discusses the metabolic process that's actually happening in your body, right down to the cell level, which may sound boring, he has a way of making it not boring and highly recommend checking him out. This is somebody with 5 million subscribers on YouTube, a ton of easy digest videos, or easy to digest videos like a top 10 healthy foods you should eat. I consumed those videos like there was no tomorrow because I'd realized you know the healthy granola bar or energy bar that supposedly was good for me. It wasn't working me and I needed better information for myself. He was a great source of that information. He was the one who taught me that sure, I could give up this food and switch over to bananas, but just so you know, the banana has the same amount of sugar as a bottle of pop. So he's very, I guess, like you said, that Northern European matter of fact approach. But I appreciate that approach because he's not beating around the bush, he's just telling it like it is, but he never comes across as somebody who's preachy, and so I definitely highly recommend Dr Sten Ekberg as well.

Graham:

The next person that I had on my list and these will get a little quicker because the influence is less definitely enormous, you know, with this exception, Dr Georgia Ede is somebody she actually I couldn't find a YouTube link so I'm guessing she doesn't have a YouTube channel but she is extremely well known in these circles, whether it's Ketovor or Carnivore, and she's somebody interesting because she is a Harvard trained psychiatrist and has had an incredible career treating people, I guess, from a standard approach to psychiatry, and you can tell she genuinely again, this is the theme but she genuinely cares about her patients, about her patients, and she tells the story better than I did in her book, and I'll talk about that in a second. How, again, she was the one who realized okay, I'm in a pretty good shape, I've got a decent job, I understand psychiatry, Certainly. She understands the medical community as good or better than anybody else. She started to realize she was suffering from certain things, whether they be physical or mental, and she wanted to get to the bottom of what was going on, for the sole purpose, obviously, of helping herself but so she could help others. And the culmination of all of that effort is a book that she wrote called Change your Diet, Change your Mind. This came out in I believe your Diet, Change your Mind. This came out in, I believe, 2024 or early 2025, but I believe it was 2024. Yes, it was, and so I think I read this book in four days. I purposely went out to walk just to hear this book, you know, more times than I normally would, and it was by far my favorite book of 2024.

Graham:

Incredibly well-written, incredibly well-researched Floors the impact of food on mental health specifically. She does get into some you know the metabolic side of things, but what she does a great job of making the connection of and this is something that I've had in my training as well is they used to think that if somebody had a mental illness whether it was anxiety, depression, any number of challenges they used to think that that had a negative impact on your microbiome and that's why you were having metabolic problems in the gut. She does a great job of making the connection and this is starting to become common knowledge, surprisingly, in the psychiatric world starting to is that it's the other way around when you are metabolically sick, it can potentially have an impact on your mental illness. So we talked about this in the last episode. Ketogenic diets were designed to try and treat epilepsy and it was having a positive impact on treating epilepsy, and then they decided to go another direction, with drugs, for whatever reason you can come to the conclusion of. But she makes an incredible case for the fact that what you eat is going to have an impact on how your mind feels, and Change your Diet, Change your Mind is such a perfect title Tons of solid research, tons of references to real research that you can read, and you can actually go in and read the studies that she references.

Graham:

And the other thing that I like about her guide is there's a ton of guides to self-improvement that you can download from the book and you can take these and use them in a way that can benefit you. And I love the fact that she doesn't necessarily push any particular diet. What she's talking about is we need to get these foods out of the diet, and she recommends certain you know lifestyle changes that I think anybody could actually entertain. You don't have to be a carnivore, you don't have to be on the ketogenic diet. You can be a vegetarian and you're gonna benefit from this book. If you know somebody that has any sort of challenges around mental health, and unfortunately that's so rampant today, highly recommend picking this book up. It can not only change your life, but you may be able to have an impactful change on a friend or loved one that's close to you as well. Stephen.

Stephen:

Well, that sounds great. Yeah, I've read other pieces of work, scientific reports on the brain-belly or the gut-brain connection, and it resonates with me because I've read other materials and I think our readership or listenership will resonate as well. As you know how you get that gut feeling. You've got a lot, a lot of neurons in your stomach. You got even more, you know, in your heart. So these feelings that we get are actually all connected. We're not an isolated entity, we're an integrated one because the gut biome in us is alive, one because the gut biomen is alive, the bacteria on our skin is alive, and if any one of those is not symbiotically aligned, then there are potential short, medium and long-term consequences.

Graham:

So the food yeah and yeah, go ahead Great great point and I'd love to jump in, stephen, before you finish, because a lot of people don't realize that there's something called the vagus nerve V-A-G-U-S. The vagus nerve is the communication nerve between the brain and the gut. Your brain and your gut are constantly talking to each other. Do we need food? Do we not need food? If you are becoming metabolically sick in the gut, it's sending messages to the brain that things aren't going well. That can actually create some stress and the communication is back and forth. But that vagus nerve is something that has such an impact on our lives. Most people have no idea how big that impact is and I only hope people get to the point where they can realize what healthy feels like, because both your gut and your brain actually benefit from that. Sorry to cut you off, Stephen.

Stephen:

That's actually a good point because, as a patient with chronic IBS, essentially it's a feedback loop on a racetrack. So that racetrack is today I'm really super stressed out. My stomach goes. Hey, we seem to be stressed out. Maybe we won't keep this food after all. How about we just go ahead and dump everything that's in your stomach and push all that blood from the stomach back into the muscles, because it seems like maybe we're getting chased by a dinosaur or something to that effect? And then the inverse can happen as well, as the stomach biome's a little bit off and the brain's going.

Stephen:

Hmm, this is interesting. I'm not getting the chemicals I need. Ergo, my brain feels sick and I'm exhibiting symptoms like anxiety, which again is exacerbating the IBS, and now I'm depressed and I'm angry and frustrated after the fact because, again, the quality of life is negatively impacted. So this consistent, conscious and subconscious loop, as you said, is rooted around the communication and the vagus nerve and that triggers the sympathetic and parasympathetic systems which we've talked about before your fight or flight response. So if you're in a constant state of inflammation, either from the food that you're eating, which is causing inflammation, which is making your brain go I got brain fog. I can't do this, I can't do that.

Stephen:

And then you layer in the fact that the quality of your diet is so poor, you're not getting the proper nutrition, you're not feeding your brain, you're not feeding your body, ergo, you're compounding the problem.

Stephen:

So when you start layering on all those pieces, you go, wow, that's a lot. But the nice thing is everything we've talked about tonight. If you unlayer those pieces and you start taking proper care of your diet, if you do meditation, if you practice good sleep cycles to ensure you're not increasing your cortisol in your sleep, if you recognize your insulin will be lower at night and so eat less meals and eat protein-dense meals three, four hours before you retire for the evening and don't snack, eat in your specific window. That's literally taking all of the advice that we've talked about tonight in their respective pieces and applying it as a lifestyle. To do what? Not increase your longevity, but increase your health span, so that in your later years in your life, as Dr Adias says, you're living that much better and you're acting and behaving. Your body might say, or the birthday clock might say, you're 80, but physiologically and metabolically you could be 60 or 50 years of age.

Graham:

Yeah, well said, one of the things that probably anybody who's gone down this path has realized at some point that moment you eat something and I'll just use ribeyes, we've often used that example because it's it's high fat. I believe it's a fat to protein ratio of 50% the the feeling that you have once you've eaten as much steak as you can eat before it's you know you stop wanting to eat it anymore. The satisfaction for the rest of the night. It's incredibly calming to the brain. It's incredibly calming to your stress levels, and what that is is your stomach going.

Graham:

We've got meat, and my understanding is eating a ribeye actually triggers the same GLP-1 receptors that something like Ozempic does, which slows down your digestive process. It's essentially telling your brain we got the best food in the world. As far as I'm concerned, we don't have to worry about eating for the next 12, 24 hours, 36 hours. If we don't want to, you go ahead and do whatever you need to fix the rest of the body. We don't need to eat any more for a while and that calming feeling is hard to explain. Not being hungry, as we talked about in the unexpected outcomes of carnivore and keto diets, not being hungry is an incredible experience to have, and it's unfortunately something that not everybody gets to experience.

Stephen:

That whole analogy applies well to our ancestors Sitting around a campfire to stay warm at night. Their bellies are full and so therefore they don't have to worry about the stress of going out and hunting at night and becoming the hunted so where the very things that they're hunting can see them and can catch up to them way faster than they can see either potential prey. So it's interesting when you think of it and you go back that far and go okay, what does the body actually need, or the mind need? It needs that peace so you can sleep well, regenerate.

Stephen:

Now, they didn't know anything about entophagy back then. They didn't know anything about gut bacteria, but they were certainly without the pesticides and all the other things that are in their soil today. They had the capacity actually to live very, very healthy lives by just doing what they naturally were inspired to do Walk, hunt, fish, sleep, mate, breathe, repeat. They had their spiritual practices. They had all these things that kept them grounded and kept them focused on their family unit and those sorts of things. So when you think about our ancestors, we don't even have to go back that many generations. You and I've talked about this, my own grandparents coming from the old country in Europe and planting their own vegetables in their backyard. They didn't go to the grocery store, they didn't use pesticides, they'd go out every day and pull the bad bugs off the vegetables and leave the good bugs there, because they knew the difference and it's kind of like our gut Same idea.

Graham:

Yeah, two really good examples, right? I often say eat like your grandmother and grandfather ate. Or, if you're much younger, see if you can find out how your great-grandmother and great-grandfather ate. There's probably a good reason why they ate that way. Your DNA is very similar to theirs. Obviously it's going to be slightly different, but if we think, as a human species, that we are so much different than the humans from 5,000 years ago, the fact is we really aren't, and the DNA hasn't changed that much, and what we need to feed ourselves to be healthy hasn't changed that much either. The messaging has changed, but what we really need to feel healthy and live the best life we can live hasn't changed in a very long time.

Graham:

On a lighter note, I wanted to jump into somebody who this is one for my wife who has found her own influences over time. I've certainly, you know I'd probably watch 50 videos and say, hey, here's one we might want to check out because it was the best of those 50 or something that I thought she might find really interesting, and it was always volunteer, and the more she started watching the videos that I thought were the best ones, the more she sort of got into looking for her own influencers, and this is one of them Laura Spath. So Laura Spath, she's not a doctor. She doesn't claim to be one. She is married to somebody who was going through his own health concerns. She was going claim to be one. She is married to somebody who was going through his own health concerns. She was going through her own health concerns and they together went down this path of let's figure out you know how to eat better and ended up on the carnivore diet, and Laura is. She comes across as just somebody who you'd happily spend an afternoon chatting with her and her husband.

Graham:

She's got a ton of information. She could have a video where she actually goes through her blood work or talks to the person that's taken the blood work to understand what certain things mean, so you can get some information on that. She'll have a video on carnivore foods that she prepares for her family. So how do you set up the kitchen? What kind of equipment does she use? What recipes does she have? And my wife is incredible at looking at you know food or something in the fridge and putting an incredible meal together. I do not have that gift she does. Sometimes the best I can do is ground beef with some eggs and maybe a bit of taco seasoning. I'm perfectly happy with that. She likes something with a little more variety, which I love as well. So somebody like Laura Spath is somebody that may just resonate with people in a different way. So I highly recommend checking out a couple of interviews. She's absolutely lovely, stephen.

Stephen:

Yeah, no, that sounds great. I'm not familiar with her, but again, I'll add that as a potential for my list as well.

Graham:

And did you want to go with the last on your list? And then I'll cover a couple off and we can wrap things up, Stephen.

Stephen:

Yeah, the last one I'd like to speak to is David Asprey. I kind of like his personality. His backstory, if you don't know, is he was over 300 pounds or on, or about 300 pounds in a very unhealthy state, and he's a self-declared godfather, as he describes it, and not grandfather, if you research that. That's a different person, but the godfather of effective intermittent fasting. And he starts being interesting from the first couple of words that come out of his mouth about fasting. Fasting is restraining or refraining from doing, consuming or acting in a certain way. So it could be in the absence of alcohol, in the absence of binge-watching television, in the absence of cutting out anything that is addictive, destructive or otherwise unproductive that's in your life. And of course, food falls central too. You just have to watch a few commercials if you still have cable, and note that. Just have to watch a few commercials if you still have cable, and note that just how much they're pushing food on you at 10, 11, 12 o'clock at night. It's pretty ridiculous. So he has an interesting way of describing what really resonated with me was a goal of metabolic flexibility, and metabolic flexibility means that your body gets so good much like a gymnast that can do the floor, the rings, the pommel horse, do all these different events that are still classified as gymnastics. You want to have the same capacity metabolically in the way in which you live your life. So if you do have to run, you can run. If you need to do a squat, you can do so without requiring two members of your family to get you back up off the floor.

Stephen:

And he said sometimes people can look at intermittent fasting or fasting in general with a certain dogma or mindset, and this is not to retract anything from the people we've spoken to, but his view is to take more of a reflective approach. Even I would say to a certain extent he'll describe a spiritual approach or holistic approach to what is working for you and what is working against you. But to have the mindset of understanding that what works today may not be the best thing for you tomorrow, because one of the factors you've introduced is a high increase in cortisol or you're traveling and that's introducing stressors because you're in traffic, is to be mindful. So this gets really into. What I'm personally interested in the most, as a former practitioner of both meditation and martial arts, is the practice of mindfulness and how that affects the vagus nerve and how I look at and you've touched on this actually just generally in saying you know, if you have a, a bad day, don't beat yourself up, because that means tomorrow's going to be bad too. That's so true. You know that we set ourselves up for success or failure through mindset, and he has.

Stephen:

I laughed because I I laughed out loud the first time I heard him say that is that some people approach the um, the art or acts of intermittent fasting like wearing a hair shirt from the medieval times. And so he was asked by the individual who was interviewing him what do you mean a hair shirt? He goes well, in the 15th century, he said, certain Christians would wear these shirts to remind themselves of constant and complete and total suffering. He said fasting done properly is not about suffering, it's about overcoming suffering. So if you can literally be addicted to feeling horrible, and then all you're doing is changing that addiction to the wrong mindset, and now you're punishing your body or yourself because you don't feel like you're making the progress that you should be making making, so there's a real I like the inner message of what he's describing.

Stephen:

He still speaks very well about butyrate gut health, gut sensitivity and all of that, but he has an interesting way, graham. If I describe his speaking style, he is, I wouldn't say, impulsive. I think what I'm looking for here, graham, is he's provoking. He says provocative things in a way that makes you go okay, I never saw it that way and I like that because that keeps my neuroplasticity in my brain working towards the next sharpest pencil that I can use in my own journey that you and I are both on. What say you to Dave Asprey?

Graham:

Yes, sometimes we need provocative right. It can get us out of our mouse wheel, get us out of our comfort zone, get our attention. And it doesn't mean you always have to follow everything you listen to and that's no reflection on Dave Asprey but sometimes you need those provocative people just to keep you on edge, and it can be very entertaining as well as informative. I've got three on my list that I'm going to go through relatively quickly. The first one is Dr Tony Hampton. Dr Tony Hampton comes across as one of the most positive people you'll ever meet. It's the kind of doctor you wish you had as a doctor. I've listened to him talk about all sorts of metabolic specific topics. He goes into a lot of detail. He has great guests. One of the things, one of the reasons why I mentioned him, is he has this PDF that is his Dr Hampton keto handout with colors. It's such an incredibly easy reference guide. You can print it out. It tells you the foods to avoid, tells you the foods to have a little bit of and tells you the foods to have as much as you want, and sometimes we need it to be that simple and there was a time on my journey where you know when you're getting all these mixed messages about eat this, don't eat that, and then the next person you're listening to is well, don't eat that, but eat this. Well, what makes sense? And one of the things that was sort of the common denominator was this PDF was, for the most part, correct. There are some things on it that you know I would say I would stay away from, but only because I've gone down the rabbit hole and I've figured out what works for me. It can certainly work for other people. If somebody says well, what am I supposed to eat, graham, it's so confusing, there's too much information out there. I'm getting bombarded with messages on TV and radio and bombarded at the grocery store about this and that, and I usually send them this and say this can be a really simple guide. It's all whole foods and one of the things he doesn't take into account is oxalates, whether it be, you know, sweet potatoes, potatoes, things like cashews, spinach. So that's something to keep in mind and it's almost a balance there, right? The Toxic Superfoods book is a really good complement to his PDF, but that's something that I'll put in a link into the description. You can get the PDF and if it helps anybody out there, then you can thank Dr Hampton for all of his work putting that together.

Graham:

Second of the last three is Carrie Mann, m-a-n-n. From Homestead Howe. I've actually listened to Carrie Mann from the beginning of his podcast. He was, as he self-describes it he tells the story better than I do going down a path of doom, for lack of a better word. Mentally and physically, he was at his lowest point. He talks about the number of medications he was on. He talks about the fact that he really didn't want to go on with his current lifestyle, and it was people that we talked about on this podcast. You know Dr Sean Baker, anthony Chafee, ken Berry, I think, was a huge influence for him, as he was for us, and he completely changed the way he eats. He not only turned himself around completely, his wife and his family started getting into it because they couldn't believe the results. He was so excited about this journey. He decided to start a podcast and he's done a lot of episodes of those. He interviews a ton of people and I got to watch him become better and better at the podcast world and that might have been a bit of an incentive for me to say, hey, maybe we can do this Stephen Salt of the Earth guy. He's putting a documentary together called Healing Humanity, which I'm looking forward to watching when it comes out. He's got a lot of the people we talked about today are actually in that documentary, so it's sort of the carnivore or keto-vore superstar list.

Graham:

And Carrie Mann of Homestead Howe is somebody that I would recommend checking out. And the last one, when people say Graham, you've got a long list of people that have influenced you positively over the years. It's obvious that it's having a positive impact. I can see it. You're telling me the mental clarity that you have and your doctor's saying everything's healthy. I'd like to pick up some tips. There's a podcast. I don't believe this person has a YouTube video, but there is a podcast. I don't believe this person has a YouTube video, but there is a podcast.

Graham:

I think I've mentioned offline, stephen, that it was 14 episodes. It's actually 35 episodes. I binge these 35 episodes in a row. They're relatively short 15, 20 minutes each, so it's not an insignificant amount of time. By the end, you're actually listening to a book. I binge this from beginning to end, non-stop.

Graham:

It was that interesting and it's somebody by the name of joanne ozag ozag ug the podcast that she that she put together is called the road to carnivore and she tells an incredible story of going from a vegan to, I believe, vegetarian and all of these steps all the way along and ending up at Carnivore and why she did and what happened during the journey.

Graham:

It's almost like she's reading her diary out loud and she goes into incredible level of detail on the science behind what she's learned. She had clearly done her research and I think I was listening to this at a time where I was starting to think I'd figured it out. I was seeing really great results, but this was something that really resonated with me and I think it could resonate with others. So if somebody comes to me and says, just give me one thing to listen to, it's the Road to Carnivore podcast series from beginning to end. She hasn't done another episode since and I listened to it at least a year and a half ago, but clearly she, in my opinion, put such an incredible body of work together in this podcast series that it can have an impact on almost anyone who listens to it. That wraps up my list, stephen. Any last thoughts before we let the audience go.

Stephen:

I just want to extend my gratitude to all of these influencers. We don't know personally, but we're impacted personally, and what a beautiful gift this medium allows us to share our insights and those of the experts and their journey, and how close these roads can intersect with what it is that our listeners are trying to do in their own respective lives. So we're here to serve, just as they are, and hopefully today's serving, so to speak, was productive for many who are listening.

Graham:

What a great summary, and the only thing I will leave this off with is there are more influencers out there than you think, and I think this community has some of the kindest people I've ever seen. They never seem to want anything from anybody. They're not trying to sell you the latest product or subscription. They really genuinely are happy with where they've gotten to and they want to share that with others. I understand that passion.

Graham:

Sometimes I can be too passionate about it and I have to figure out a way to zip it, but the fact is there are so many personalities out there that can have a positive impact on your life.

Graham:

It doesn't mean you have to do what they're saying, but just knowing there's other people out there that may have gone through the exact same situation that you're going through today and they've done something to change. That can give people the kind of hope that they may not be getting by just going through their day-to-day the way they're going through today, and I think what best sums it up is you realize you're not alone. When you hear these people go through the same process, have similarly great results at different stages, you realize that not only are you not alone, but there's this massive community out there that isn't necessarily your friends or your family that you can listen to, resonate with and understand that I could really get some valuable information out of them. So on that note, stephen, thank you so much for your fantastic list. There's a number of people that you've helped put me on to that I've learned more about, and I think that's what this is all about.

Stephen:

Yeah, thank you, graham, I enjoyed it.

Graham:

All right, thanks everybody. Thanks for listening to another episode of Lessons for the Ketoverse and we will see you next time.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for tuning into Lessons from the Keto-Verse. Join Stephen and Graham next time for more keto tips and stories to fuel your health. Subscribe, share and let's keep the keto vibes going.