Simplifying the New USDA Food Guidelines

The nutrition landscape just shifted! We break down the groundbreaking 2025–2030 USDA Dietary Guidelines in simple terms: protein takes center stage, full-fat dairy returns, grains step back, ultra-processed foods get called out, and added sugars face stricter limits. If you've ever battled mid-morning hanger on high-carb breakfasts, questioned why cereal trumped steak, or struggled with low-fat "health" foods that spike cravings—this episode delivers the clarity and actionable steps you need for ketogenic and carnivore success.

Explore the key wins for low-carb eaters: prioritizing nutrient-dense protein for satiety and muscle preservation, embracing quality fats (including from red meat, eggs, and full-fat dairy) for steady energy and metabolic health, and slashing hidden sugars like maltodextrin that derail ketosis. Learn practical hacks—hitting simple protein targets, reading labels for sneaky carbs, choosing whole fruit over juice, using glycemic awareness at home, and incorporating fermented foods like sauerkraut or kefir for gut support on carnivore or keto.

We address what's still missing (like explicit intermittent fasting nods or relaxed saturated fat caps) and how these changes align beautifully with lower-carb lifestyles. Get tips to crush "keto flu" symptoms with smart electrolyte strategies—sodium, potassium, magnesium via bone broth, mineral salts, or targeted supplements—as your body sheds water weight. Build your own proof: track baseline labs (A1C, triglycerides, HDL, B12, vitamin D, electrolytes) and monitor how simpler, real-food meals transform how you feel.

This isn't about rigid labels—it's about building a satisfying, sustainable ketogenic or carnivore eating style backed by evolving science and real results. Perfect for anyone transitioning to or optimizing low-carb, high-protein, animal-based eating! Subscribe now, share with a friend rethinking their plate, and drop a 5-star review sharing the guideline shift that excites you most for your keto/carnivore journey.

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Transcript

Framing The New USDA Guidelines

Introduction 0:00

Welcome to Lessons from the Ketoverse. Join Steven and Graham as they explore the keto lifestyle with tips, science, and stories to boost your health. This podcast isn't medical advice. Consult your healthcare advisor for any health-related issues. Get ready to fuel your primal power.

Big Shift: Grains Down, Protein Up

Graham 0:17

Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Lessons from the Ketoverse. Today we are talking about a topic that uh is making the news, some places more than others, and that's around the new USDA food guidelines. So, what does this mean? The new USDA guidelines replace the, I guess, 2020 to 2025 USDA guidelines. And it is, I would imagine, in the brief research that we've done, the biggest change from five-year to five-year period uh around the recommendations for what people should eat. And we're going to get into a little bit of detail. We're going to kind of do a highlight and we're going to try and model this around sort of a simplified comparison of the old versus the new USDA guidelines, so the 2020 to 25 guidelines compared to the new 2025 to 2030 guidelines that just came out. And uh there are some pretty significant changes, and I think the uh people in the uh keto uh play space and the carnivore space, I think, are seeing some real positive changes uh based on what they already found in their own lives and what they've learned. The guidelines are slowly but surely catching up with the new administration. So one of the uh big differences uh, I think between the old and the new is the old guidelines were actually over a hundred pages long, which I think for most people uh we have a hard enough time uh focusing and actually an even harder time focusing than previous decades. So getting those hundred pages of guidelines, which I think most people are not going to spend the time to read, to what is now uh a 10-page document, of which six pages is actually the guidelines. The last four pages is more specific recommendations for different groups of people, uh, age groups, for example. This is a really easy document to read. Any adult or even a teenager, anyone of reading age can sit down. It's very well presented, it's very easy to understand, it gets to the point, and there isn't a lot of difficult terminology in there that may put people off. So this is the kind of guideline that you can Google, download it, read those six pages in you know, 15 minutes at most, and get a pretty good understanding of what these guidelines are all about. So we're gonna talk about uh some of the changes and what we think are the positives, maybe the some of the drawbacks at the end where we think maybe uh there's room for improvement, and uh what we think generally of the guidelines overall. So, Steven, say hello to everybody and thank you for another episode uh with Stephen and Graham. We appreciate you listening. And if you're finding the information helpful, or if you think somebody else might be helped by the information, please like, subscribe. Uh it doesn't cost anything, and uh share with other people. You never know, you might actually make a real difference in somebody's life, and that's a gift that just keeps on giving. So, Stephen, why don't we start with you? What uh jumps out between the old and the new USDA food guidelines?

Stephen 3:23

Yeah, there's uh plenty of content there to uh excuse the euphemism, but to chew on. So I think I'm gonna start with the food pyramid uh inversion. So I think most people are familiar, we've seen it uh depending on your age, probably most of our lives. Uh and that's conveyed the uh breakdown of between proteins, dairy, vegetables, and fruits and so forth. And what's interesting is the old my plate had grains as half of the plate. So imagine that 50% of your consumption each day, which is you call it six servings, is actually focused on starches that for people, all people, converts quickly, causes a sugar spike, your glucose will rise dramatically and crash. I think we've talked in previous episodes how often restaurants will serve bread to start, and it's not because they're evil, but because that uh start with bread will cause your sugar to rise and then drop and actually make you feel more hungry. So with this new inversion, we have proteins, dairy, vegetables, fruits, and fats at the top now, as opposed to grains. And this has reduced uh grains to a serving size of two to four per day, symbolizing a low-carb shift that certainly demotes uh processed grain products generally, which is uh a good start.

Graham 4:36

Yeah, excellent. And the next one uh I think is a real nice addition or change, and that's around protein prioritization. So as Steven talked about, if you're going to reduce the number of grains on your plate, which Stephen and I believe is the right direction, but what do you replace it with? Well, your macros are carbs, which are grains and other foods, then you've got protein and you've got fat. So if you're going to reduce the number, the amount of grains on your plate, uh, what are you replacing it with? Well, the new guidelines actually recommend replacing that with a protein. And they don't emphasize lean proteins like in the past. They are actually talking about real nutrient-dense proteins. If you look at the photo of the guidelines, there's actually a stake at the top. If you're reading from left to right, it's the first thing you see. The recommendations here talk about five and a half ounces of protein per day or 1.2 to 1.6 grams per kilogram of body weight. Um, the uh the easiest, I think, way to remember this, uh, whether you're doing kilograms or whether you're doing pounds, um, most people, I think, in in North America use pounds to weigh themselves. Try and um achieve one gram of protein for every pound of ideal weight. So, what does that mean? Uh, if your ideal weight uh is 150 pounds, I'm just making up a number, uh, and that that is your healthy ideal weight that you want to get to or you want to maintain, uh, then in that case you're gonna want to make sure that you have a gram of protein, sorry, 150 grams of protein or one gram for every pound of ideal weight on your plate. Um, that's gonna do a couple of things. One, it's gonna give you the nutrients uh that your body needs to maintain, repair, and repair itself. Um and it's also going to make sure that you feel fuller or uh you you you feel like you you've had a meal where you're not hungry a couple of hours later and you're grabbing the thing that's easiest to grab, which is usually carbs in bread, crackers, chips, you name it. Um and if you're not hungry, it means you are actually able to put off that next meal. And we'll talk a little bit about the advantages of those, that'll uh that situation a little later. Um but pro protein prioritization, I think, is a really nice change compared to the old standard. Stephen?

Stephen 7:00

Yeah, I think for the next one, well let's talk about Fruit Loops versus red meat as an example. So in the old guidelines, and again what we mostly grew up with, sugary cereals like Fruit Loops, that doesn't even spell F-R-U-I-T as fruit, but F R O O T, because there's no fruit in it, is promoted as being a healthy grain. And because it has that little label on the box that says fortified with vitamins. But, you know, frankly, when you're consuming something that's garbage and then you're dabbling it with an amount of vitamins that likely doesn't even begin to meet the daily uh requirement of vitamins, it's really nonsensical. It's a distraction that's done for marketing. And uh there's just been uh a recent Congress event where they discussed the implications of red dye and other components within fruit loot specifically, but let's stick generally to cereals that are heavily, heavily weighted with sugar. At certain points, they were actually ranked higher because of the vitamins than red meat, which is seems nonsensical, but that's what we were told. Well, that's uh certainly not the case anymore because the new guidelines limit the consumption of processed foods and added sugars well uh to less than 10 grams per meal while elevating unprocessed red meat as a nutrient-dense, protein staple. So again, you know, from our perspective when we're viewing this, and we'll touch on this a little more, is that generally you and I practice uh uh whole meats the same way as we would um look at whole eggs. We're not extracting uh eggs to a point where we're only consuming the whites of the eggs and other things that we used to do, because again, those are qualify more often than not as highly processed. And and it's worth mentioning, even though we're talking about fruit loops, which you know, vegetarians and others might think, okay, that's that's acceptable. I'm consuming something that isn't a a meat product. When you start looking at the components that are within those ingredients, there are derivatives in there more often than not that speak to or touch on animal-based products or petroleum-based products that clearly are not healthy for us. So I would say that generally when it comes to these comparisons, we're getting closer to the mark, but we're still not there.

Cereal Versus Red Meat Reality Check

Graham 9:07

Yeah, and this is an interesting one because uh you know you and I have gone down this journey of uh changing the way we eat to more of a sort of keto carnivore, depending on the day type uh food lifestyle. And even when I talk to people that think we are crazy for eating the way we do, even though all of our blood markers have gone back to normal, we are at the ideal body weight and we feel 20 years younger than we did uh the day before we started this journey. When I mentioned that Fruit Loops actually scored higher on the old USDA guidelines than red meat, even the the biggest skeptics think that's ridiculous. So um this was something that uh badly needed a change. Sending a message that something like Fruit Loops should be chosen over something like red meat is, in my opinion, dangerous, and that has been fixed or undone with the new guidelines, and I think that's a welcome change. Um the one that uh uh jumped out at me as well is the uh dairy recommendations. Um the previous editions pushed for low-fat dairy. This is something that has been going on for decades. Uh I remember, you know, in the 80s and 90s, um, people starting to choose the low-fat versions of things, low-fat yogurt, 1% milk, skim milk. These were all things that people thought, well, I'm gonna get healthier if I eat the low-fat versions of things. Well, there's a couple of problems with that. One is low fat often means that they are removing fat, which is delicious to most people. Most people love bacon. Fat is a delicious component of whole foods, real foods. Whether you're talking about um, you know, unsaturated fats like in an avocado, or whether you're talking about saturated fat in ground beef or steaks or eggs or that kind of thing, bacon, as I mentioned. So it is delicious. If you take the fat out of the food, it's no longer delicious. And what you end up having to do with the food manufacturing is to figure out scientific ways of adding things back into the food to make them taste better. And if uh all you have to do is go to the store, pick up a low-fat yogurt, look at the ingredients, and then pick out a full fat yogurt ingredient, compare the two, and you'll notice that the full fat has three, four ingredients, maybe one or two depending on where it is. Whereas the low-fat version is it might have 15 ingredients, of which you may recognize two. The rest of them you can't spell. Um, and it you know, a great little lesson uh that I took is I I took two similar sort of products. One was uh full fat, and in my opinion, healthy, and one was the low-fat version where they added all of these chemicals, and I gave them to uh a 10-year-old, and I said, Can you read the ingredients for me? And the 10-year-old easily could read the ingredients of the full fat, whole food version, but they stopped at ingredient number three and could not read the next 16 ingredients on that package. Uh, if you can't understand what's in the food, it's probably not good for you, is something that I've kept with me for the last couple of years. Switching back to full fat and away from low fat and fat-free dairy means A, you're not adding things into the food that, you know, long-term, in my opinion, are and not good for your health. And secondly, uh, the more fat you have in your food, the more satiated you are, and the less likely you are to need to eat um quickly after you have that low-fat meal. So uh good change, in my opinion, switching from low fat to full fat whole foods. Um now, I should say one change, and not change, but one limitation that they put on this was they recommended a 10% saturated fat cap. Um, and actually, this is a bit of a contradiction. We'll talk about this a little later, uh, so we'll get into more detail about that. But they have put a limit on the recommended amount of fat, and I think this was a an appeasement to try and get these uh dietary guidelines released, and we'll talk a little bit about uh why there might be a downside to that um in a little bit. Stephen?

Full-Fat Dairy And Mixed Signals On Fat

Stephen 13:08

Yeah, just a couple things to add. I'm I'm shocked that 10-year-old didn't know the periodic table, so wasn't able to read those uh chemicals that probably require a PhD to be in the room. And my second comment, just to build on yogurt, because yogurt is a uh a main staple for me as a diabetic. Um the other thing I'd like to point out that uh that uh runs adjacent to what you described is if you take a milk fat percentage in those, which the higher the milk fat, the more a density uh that you have around um the amount of fat and look at how much sugar is in there, if it's 17%, 11%, you'll note that the sugar content is like four grams typically in that range, five, maybe six. Then you take something like, for instance, strawberry yogurt, which at that very moment, folks, is an ultra-processed food because they've added so much sugar to that. The merits of that uh yogurt have now been completely diminished by the amount of sugar in it. And I've seen numbers 17, 19, 20, which is seven times the amount of sugar that you need to consume in an entire day. Because typically they say that uh your body only requires metabolically three grams of sugar, which it can produce itself. Um naturally something to look look forward to. I regularly spin yogurts around. And the other thing I would add too is consider kefir as an example, and you'll note that there's almost no sugar, if no sugar at all, in that, as well as both you and I, Graham, our master yogurt uh creators. We have our own yogurt that we create that's specifically designed to feed the bacteria in the small intestine, uh, where more often than not you can get bio growth. So we're very vigilant when it comes to it. And I mix yogurt with kefir and my homemade yogurt to create like a protein powerhouse. And you'll find that your taste will adjust. If you like cheese, for instance, the kefir will taste more. There is no there's no sugary taste to it at all, really. Um it'll give the taste a little more of an edge, but um your palate will uh will uh will adjust and your stomach will thank you.

Graham 15:14

Yeah, well said. Yeah. And it's interesting around, you know, when you take fat out of something, it no longer tastes good. You generally have to add something back in. And to your point, a lot of the time it's way too much sugar for the average person.

Stephen 15:27

Terrific. So I guess the uh the next one that I I wanted to touch on again comes back to fats and saturated fats, and which we were talking about as well. So the old guidelines emphasize unsaturated fats to be limited less than 10% of the calories, whereas the new change encourages healthy fats like butter, beef tallow, and olive oil in cooking, but keeps the same saturated fat limit, which, you know, again sends somewhat mixed signals. But I guess the intention would be is to get you on track to adjusting to that form of consumption, particularly when it comes to olive oils. And I've done a lot of research because I consume olive oil every day by design because of the polyphenols that are in there. And uh recently, um, you know, this is an unpaid endorsement, but recently switched to a very well-known heart specialist, a cardiologist, that is promoting one that comes from a particular region in Africa. And it has a hundred and, I believe, uh, don't quote me on this, uh do your own research, but has like 138 times the the amount of polyphenols in a uh call it a small shot glass of of um olive oil, which is notably higher than say that's coming out of other regions that are more well known. So again, it's also a function of the quality of what you're consuming. It's not just a no-brainer, okay, I'm gonna have yogurt. No, the yogurt has too much sugar in it. Oh, I'm gonna consume this olive oil. Oh, it's adulterated. So make sure that when you're spending your money, because everything is so expensive now, is that you do the due diligence to make sure that you are getting the 18 quality foods that you're consuming, whether it's saturated fats, unsaturated fats. By way of example, you know, what you and I both consume a steak, one of our staples. I I do not get it from industrial potential meat purveyors. I get it from my local butcher. I know where the where the beef came from. I know that there it's been grain fed, um, and or sorry, grass fed and grain finished. So those are things where you can start to tune up. Because keep in mind, when they're doing these these food guides, they are where you and I were nine, 10 years ago going, okay, so what do I have? What do I have? And it's like it's like tuning a Ferrari engine is you want to consistently, you are your own continuous improvement process. You want to dial it up, dial it up, and use how you feel as a gauge. And when you, you know, you've cleaned up your leaky gut as you and I have done, you know, you're eating and feeding the proper probiotics, you don't have dysbiotic bacteria, you're starting to get to a threshold. We talked about this before we joined this, where you you have someone you've guided and mentored on this that had a radical change just, you know, and we'll talk about this later, but through change of diet, fasting, and so forth. And and anyone can do that. We've proven that time and time again.

Added Sugars, Kids, And Cravings

Graham 18:11

Yeah, uh, absolutely. U next on the list is added sugar limits. So, what does this mean? Um this is added sugar that is put into foods, sweeteners, syrups. Um I'm trying to think of the list of um of them all in the ingredient list. Um, sometimes they're not even listed as sugars, they're just there are other ingredients that have been added to get around the added sugar idea. But at the end of the day, um they're recommending less than 10% daily calories from added sugars. And actually, they've also made a change to say um no added sugars for kids under 10. I think for parents that are uh planning to have kids, expecting to have kids, or have very young kids, and are thinking about how they're going to control the amount of sugar that their children have, especially as the right guidelines recommend under 10 when your gut microbiome and and your body's growing, attempting to grow into a healthy adult, sugar is going to be a real problem, or too much sugar is going to be a real problem for that growth process. Um, and it can have mental and physical implications. As we are finding out, the bazooka group is doing a lot of research on this and are finding exactly what I think Stephen and I have experienced for a while in that uh things like added sugars not only affect you physically, but they can also affect you mentally. And the reverse is true. When you reduce or remove those added sugars, you can not only help your glucose levels, your insulin response mentally, you are likely to feel uh a significant improvement as well. So, how do you manage these things? Well, the first step is, you know, try to avoid giving sugars all the time. Doesn't mean you can't have treats, doesn't mean you can't have rewards, but those should be um carefully planned out. And um, you know, birthdays and cakes and that kind of thing are one-off scenarios. They're not, you know, cakes every day, candies every day, cookies every day. And the second thing is uh for both children and adults, the less added sugar sweets, processed foods, that kind of thing that you eat, the less you're gonna create those sugary foods. And I know that sounds like it may be impossible, but it's actually true. Stephen and I have both experienced this. Um we went from enjoying the odd uh cookie or snack or you know, donut, whatever it is, that is super sweet. And I speak from my experience, and I'd love to hear yours, Stephen. When I eat those things, I actually find them gross now. When I ha eat something like yogurt, which I don't have that often, but I do eat it, um, especially the stuff that uh we make. Stephen referenced it earlier, the L Ruderai robe uh yogurt, uh Google L Ruder uh Dr. Berg and learn more about that if you're interested. When I eat yogurt, when I eat this full-fat yogurt, no sugar added, uh, or when I drink a little bit of milk, again, which I don't do that often, uh, it tastes extremely sweet to me. It's it's about the limit of the sweet that I can actually tolerate. And the reason is I've just cut all that stuff out. So to me, what is sweet now is not what the average person would believe is sweet. So if I really need something sweet, I can satisfy that craving with something that's uh, you know, a full fat dairy, cheese, cottage cheese, milk, that kind of thing. I don't need to eat, you know, cakes or cookies or donuts because they just don't taste good to me anymore. So limiting the amount of added sugar to me is a great improvement over the old guidelines, which didn't address the issue nearly enough, in my opinion, Stephen.

Ultra-Processed Foods And Metabolic Fallout

Stephen 21:47

Yeah, I just want to pivot a little bit on that too, because of course uh sugar is my arch nemesis as a diabetic. So one of the things I would tell parents and listeners out there is um watch for them starting to insert as you. Suggested alternatives to sugar or hiding them like maltodextrin is a great example. Maltodextrin is sugar, starch is sugar. So when you take a potato chip that's laced with malt vinegar, which is maltodextrin, and uh and then a highly processed potato chip, I can tell you from personal experience that you know occasionally the uh Frankenstein mind takes over and I'll have three or four chips and watch what it does to my CGM and I'll go from what we measure here from a standard uh between six and eight after a meal, two hours after a meal, I'll go to 12 or 13, which is extremely unhealthy. And I can feel that spike the same way as I feel a drop. So if you're dialed into your body, you'll realize it. And those those alcohols, the alternative ones, I've studied. I've consumed dark chocolate and noted that there is some of that in some of the less sweet um sugars. They say no sugar added, and you flip it over and you find out there's probably two times or three times as much sugar alternative alcohols that are in there. And there's not a lot of studies yet, Graham, that I've been able to find to say what it's doing in the long term. But it is masking and tricking the liver for now because it doesn't cause that that escalation in sugar. But who knows what it's doing to my, you know, to my um microbiome or how it's affecting my brain. Uh, you know, they call dementia type 3 diabetes. So who knows what damage that is causing over time if you're starting, you know, consistently to consume things like diet pops and and um so forth, thinking that you're safe because you're you know, you're saving on the sugar. And in reality, it's it's yeah, okay, it's it's it's maybe not as extremely bad for sugar spikes, but it's still not food. So um I'm gonna jump to uh the next one on my list is this processed food stance. Because as you know, my history, uh for a while when I was trying to correct my my extreme unhealth as I describe it, I consider because my wife is vegetarian, vegan, going down that path. And of course, I didn't have the knowledge that you and I have today. So my presumption was, okay, well, I'm gonna follow the old food guide and you know I'm gonna cut back on certain things and consumed a lot of starches and my diabetes got substantially worse. I became very unwell. I started putting on weight when I had previously taken it off, and then the only reason I initially took it off was because I was so sick I couldn't eat. I didn't feel like eating, I was in a constant state of disruption. So it was only on the path of my natural path, seeing her, and then moving to plant-based foods, and I wasn't getting the kind of benefits beyond other than intermittent fasting, which we'll talk about later. But the point was I had about 25% of it right and I was getting a benefit, but I didn't realize that you know these lasagna noodles were starch and highly, highly processed that, as Dr. Gundry and others talk about, actually promote leaky gut. So I was fixing my dysbiotic bacteria, but you know, sending little needles to penetrate my intestine to cause it, you know, chronic inflammation that put my my cortisol up and put me in a state with cortisol raised, your body secretes more sugar. So the sugar is there, it's in your fat cells and everything everywhere else. And you have the metabolic capacity by design to convert these lightened sugars, whether in brown fat, regular fat, in your cells to be secreted and used. And when you're stressed, you're going to release that. And that caused significant issues with my ability to even digest anything because my body was in a constant state, and the originating event again comes back fundamentally to these processed foods that you read, as we said earlier, that have dyes in them that are were not well understood. Again, I studied the periodic table, but you know, that was a thousand years ago. And so we're not necessarily aware of how these additives are working. And it wasn't until I started wearing a CGM and started monitoring, going, well, holy, this is like, this is really, really unhealthy. And when I switched, as we talked about before, I still consume vegetables, very limited polyphenol, dense um uh fruits in my yogurt stacking and so forth, but for instance, like blueberries, but I'm very, very careful about eliminating processed foods as much as possible from my diet.

Graham 26:10

Yeah, well said. I'm gonna jump to uh the vegetable and fruits and just then uh uh cover this fairly quickly because the changes aren't massive. The old guide recommended two and a half cups of veggies, two cups of fruit daily, uh, the new ones, three servings of veggies and two uh servings of fruits. Uh so I three three cups of veggies, three cups of fruits. But it does uh make one change, which is it stresses the whole form of uh fruit in this example over something like juice. So if you think about what a typical breakfast might look like, you know, milk in your highly processed cereal like Fruit Loops with a glass of orange juice next to it, that is going to absolutely bomb your glucose levels and drive your insulin up. And you're likely going to be hungry at 10 a.m. at whatever you know, a couple of hours later when you're at work or at school and you're craving that snack, you're hangry. Well, the reason is because your glucose is spiked, your insulin levels are spiked, both of them come down at a rapid pace a couple of hours later, and now you're hypoglycemic, and your body's telling you this is an emergency, I need food. So eating an orange is going to be better than drinking orange juice because at least you're getting the fiber to slow down the um the absorption of glucose. My recommendation is take a look at a reliable glycemic index. This is a really handy tool to have. I I printed one out and I had it on the kitchen uh counter for a while with the kids because I wanted them to be able to really easily see, okay, if I'm choosing this food, um, it's really, really high on the glycemic index. I'm going to see if I can find something that I'm really interested in eating that's lower down on the glycemic index, which is likely to drive your glucose levels up less. So the higher the glycemic index, the more likely it is to drive your glucose levels up, and the more likely it is that your insulin levels are going to be driven up. Eventually you may end up with insulin resistance and a potential prediabetes or diabetes diagnosis down the road. So having that glycemic index, you know, including the kids or other family members to help them understand what different foods, how different foods impact your glucose levels, uh, may mean that you're able to choose something lower on the scale. And that is something that uh takes you in the right direction, in my opinion. Stephen, anything on that one?

Fruit, Veg, And The Glycemic Index

Stephen 28:29

Yeah, I mean, I think that we there's an opportunity for those who are listening to to create a little bit of a science experiment at home. So my common diet prior to to illness was, and you know this because we we work together, I would go downstairs and get a bagel from our you know our Tim Horton, our Canadian uh uh place, and grab a coffee and and a bagel, and sometimes it had peanut butter and jam on it. And you look at the number of grams of sugar in the coffee with some sugar and the jam, and the fact that that's a starch and you're converting that to sugar, uh, you know, you might as well be drinking a can of coke, right, for for breakfast. Because from a pure sugar perspective, it's probably lower with the coke than it is all those things that you combine. So it's very important. And it and that kind of leads into the next one that I want to talk about, which is around whole grains reduction, which is in fact in the new guide. Because previously they pushed at least half the grains. You recall earlier when I talked about the pyramid, it was literally half the pyramid. Well, now they provide uh prioritize fiber-rich whole grains. But the the interesting thing is, yeah, okay, so we're cutting that back um drastically as we talked about. Don't eat bread when you're at a restaurant, no matter how good it smells, you know, stay away from the bakeries because they're designed by that. In fact, um, I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but previously in Canada, they used to bake Tim Hortons in the stores by design. Now they're flash frozen by the new owners, the Brazilian company that owns them. And so they don't get that smell anymore. But it's that there is a natural, we'll call it Pavlov's uh, you know, study with dogs is you you salivate, you think, oh wow, that smells, you know, amazing and and what have you. And we have a local bakery where I live, and I still go in there, you know, and it's my kryptonite. You know, I just go in there, I don't make eye contact with anybody, and I get what I need to and get out because it is obviously a temptation. It smells amazing, it tastes amazing. But the reality is it's very uh very, very, very bad for you. I see it on my CGM. And again, it's like it's like popping sugar cubes, you know, really. Um because the glycemic index, as you had highlighted earlier in some of these things, especially when you couple them with the confectionery products that are ultra-processed jams and and so forth, then you know, there's the um it is a sugar bomb.

Whole Grains Reduced And Bread Traps

Graham 30:42

Yeah, and and you know, taking a look at my handy dandy glycemic index, I can see that white bread, as an example, is 73, which is quite high and not recommended. And I think most people know white bread is, you know, not a healthy alternative as amazing and tasteful, tasty as it actually is. But if I go to take a look at something like rye bread, you go from 73 on white bread to 60 on rye bread. Um, so it's still relatively high. Well, what if I chose pita bread? Well, that's 68. So not uh not that much lower than white bread as an example. Okay, well, why don't we choose multi-grain bread? Because you know, you and I have probably gone down this road as most people do. Uh let's switch from white bread to multigrain bread because that's going to be healthy for me. Well, I would say it's healthier for you. You go from a 73 on the glycemic index to 62 on the glycemic index, but it is still a caution uh level uh for multi-grain bread. So healthier, yes. Healthy, I would argue no. Um there's a couple of things that the new guidelines focus on, and this is sort of in the last four uh pages again. Very easy guidelines to read. The um sort of a grade three or four level is gonna have no problem absorbing the contents, and it's an easy read. So we highly recommend reading it for yourself. Don't take anybody else's word for it, including ours. Read it for yourself, make your own uh decisions, and the next time somebody says, you know, what about those new food food guidelines? You can say, Oh, I've read it from beginning to end. What uh questions do you have for me? And you'll sound even smarter than they do. So they they got a special population focus here. And I think a really important addition is this focus around gut health. You know, I think for a while the medical communities have understood that prescribing antibiotics, although um, you know, can have superhuman impacts on you know health recovery and in some cases are necessary, you know, uh because the alternative is, you know, you you you may not make it. Obviously, in those situations, something like antibiotics is going to be life-saving. But for the most part, we've been using it for the last couple of decades just to get over uh you know, being sick, uh instead of staying in bed, eating good food, having some chicken soup, and um getting your loved ones to uh uh to pick up the pace. Uh we want the quick fix. Well, what ends up happening is that antibiotic is going to kill uh some of the good gut bacteria in in your gut. And so they're recommending fermented foods as a fantastic way to feed the healthy bacteria in your gut that is so critical to not only our physical health, but our mental health. We've talked about this before, Change Your Diet, Change Your Mind by George Eat is a fantastic reference uh book from last year, probably the best book I read last year uh from a health perspective. Fermented foods like sauerkraut, and there's many others, kimchi, are fantastic. And and get the stuff that's uh you know made natural. In the case of sauerkraut, it's cabbage and water and salt. That's it. There's no other ingredients. You can make it yourself or you can buy it. And but if you do buy it, check the ingredients and make sure there's only two ingredients on that list, and you're likely to be able to improve your gut health over time. And it also references the full fat dairy for kids' uh brain development. If you think about uh breastfeeding, breast milk is uh full fat for a reason. It is fantastic for brain development. Our brains are um a considerable percentage of our brains is saturated fat. It needs that to uh grow and thrive. And uh the new recommendations uh do a good job, I think, of emphasizing the importance there. Steven?

Gut Health, Fermented Foods, And Kids’ Brains

Stephen 34:30

Yeah, I just like uh again, some of these things may seem somewhat unpalatable. Um, having an Eastern European heritage, I mean, you know, uh the sauerkraut was kind of a punishment as a kid to eat that because there's such a contrast between it and the amazing cookies that my grandmother made. So, you know, it again comes to adjusting your diet to reflect uh a higher level of mindset around your general health, and you'll find those cravings of, as we've discussed before, will will disappear. And that's ultimately what you're aiming at. I mean, if you look at this, if you put you apply the same rigor that you do in executing your job or driving your kids to their activities that you do with your own diet and have the same degree of mindfulness around what it is you're consuming, you will knock it out of the park in no time and you'll be shocked and amazed at how quickly your body in just a few weeks can undo damage you've done for years. And that, uh in my opinion, is very encouraging, you know. And uh so I consume a lot of the things I could not digest before, or and I see in the sense of taste, you know, I would have a tiny bit of of uh sauerkraut. Now, you know, you're reminding me I'll be adding that because I do eat a lot of carnival carnivore dinners um typically. I just find that I feel better when I'm asleep. I stay asleep better. But again, when you you're not feeling well, you want to make sure that you get as much as you can into your biome to to improve outcomes and hopefully shorten the uh you know the period in which you are you're not you're feeling unwell. So uh those are really good points, and particularly kids' brain development. So one of the things that we wanted to talk about too, because uh you know we we're in the far north uh here, called Canada, is to talk a bit about the impact of the uh U.S. guide, because more often than not, we tend to trend too. It makes sense. Our supply chains are integrated. We we purchase food, fruits, vegetables from the U.S. in periods of time when we can't get them here because it's winter. So Canada's 2019 guided, uh, which by the way had only been updated for the first time in 2019 from like the 90s. The original food guide in Canada actually was aimed at uh at getting Canadian soldiers rated as being a fit for duty in the military based on that that particular food guide. And we hadn't changed it since 2019. So obviously it was it was based on when foods were much more whole and much more nutritional, where you know the majority of those people in the 40s were if they went to the grocery store, it likely was for some canned goods or something like that, because everything that they ate back then was homemade. And that's not a word you hear very often anymore in common vernacular, is homemade. So uh to that end, you know, the Canada's 2019 guide is a plant forward and evidence-based, which is great. The USDA's animal protein emphasis might spark some d debates with some people, particularly people like my wife by choice does not want to consume um animal products. Um, and I presume, or at least you and I have considered that there will probably be some future changes with our plan. And the next update is post-2030, which is a long time. So I think to some extent, and feel free to interject, uh, Graham, we're we're talking about looking at some of the limits that the U.S. has created in their food guides, is even guidelines for our fellow Canadians, because again, it's uh the most recent, it's seven years newer than our food guides. What say you, Graham?

Graham 37:54

Yeah, I I think that those are really good points. And the fact that there's ours is not expected to be updated until 2030 doesn't give me a huge amount of hope, but there may be a couple of things that influence, and maybe what I'll do is I'll wrap up the sort of the Canada-US um interconnectivity and then jump to kind of what's missing on those guidelines because I want to hear from you on uh where we think there's still room for improvement. Um there's a couple of things. So, number one, what are the USDA guidelines actually do? Uh like if nobody follows them, who cares, right? Well, it actually does inform on policy. It actually does change the way, for example, uh the military feeds their, you know, their actual troops. Yes. It informs on how uh schools need to provide the right kinds of nutrition, which I think is gonna actually have the biggest impact of all here. If we're getting away from ultra-processed foods in the U.S. and more towards whole foods, there is going to be an improvement in the health of young people in the U.S. And I think that is a fantastic outcome. It's gonna be very hard to hide from the fact that we're seeing, you know, improvements in uh the health outcomes for youth, and hopefully it's measura measurable improvement. It's gonna be hard to hide from that in the next five years. And countries are going to have to take a look at that and say maybe there is some there there. Maybe we do need to take a look at this because clearly they're uh they're onto something. And I think more research is gonna come over over the next five years that's going to persuade people to give this a try, not to mention the fact that there are more and more people going keto at carnivore every single day, and those people talk to other people, and those other people notice that somebody has dropped 50 pounds, they're feeling better, they're off their meds, and those are impossible things to ignore. So I think there's trade scenarios where uh the the USDA guidelines are may have an impact on Canada in a positive way, prioritizing certain kinds of foods, for example, whole foods. And there may be public demand in Canada for uh changes in order to make up for the nutrient gaps that a plant forward meal plan may present. And so my hope is that it's going to have a positive improvement. Obviously, I like the guidelines. I certainly like the direction that is going in, and I hope it does have an impact on other people for the sole reason that I want to see people healthier. Um, there's no politics involved. I happen to love the U.S. and I happen to love uh the people that I I know in the U.S. Um, and uh to me, uh they're our closest neighbors. Um, and you know, at least when it comes to the USDA guidelines, for example, we have a lot to learn. So, Stephen, I wanted to jump down Yeah, yeah.

Cross-Border Impact And Food Costs

Stephen 40:32

Sorry, so I was just gonna interject for one sec, uh Graham, to to build on what you're saying before we move on to some of the missing uh pieces. One of the things I think it's important to point out is um it was recently reported that we, Canada, as part of the G7, have the highest grocery expenses um out of all the G7. Food inflation, that's right. Yeah, 7.3% they recorded today, which I saw. So um one of the things that you had pointed out in one of our previous broadcasts, which I think is important, is folks, when you're buying, you know, we we have, you know, and Graham and I are apolitical, so we're we're just talking about economics here. When you're importing items that may or may not have um tariffs applied and they're ultra-processed, obviously for both sides of the border, people are going to migrate to their microcommunities where possible and consume you know strawberries locally and so forth. And and and I think to a great extent, probably most people were doing that anyway. So I think that'll be encouraged where the communities will come together as they have in the past and ensure that there's a spectrum of foods that are offered that are raw, healthy, natural, come out of the ground. And I think that's probably a positive thing. And I think also for the the costs that are associated with that, if you want to try to defer some of the inflation, you and I talked uh before this this call about me shopping at the largest uh grocery store in in Canada. And and you know, I had two large bags that didn't have any meat in them actually, but it was it was uh Whole Foods and it was $345 Canadian. I mean, I just both fell over. Now there were some things in there like organic peanut butter and and some other items that tended to, you know, kombucha. Kombucha is like, you know, for us is 10 bucks for four cans. It's expensive. So I had a few of those that I can't get here locally because I live more remote from that particular, that was our nation's capital I was at at the time. But it still was shocking to me that that was amount that amount amount of money, considering, you know, 15, 20 years ago, you couldn't spend that money unless you were at Costco, right? Bulking up with with three kids or four kids as I have. So um it's it's something to consider. We we're talking about your healthier, but there's also elements that should be considered in the context of what does your grocery bill look like. So you cut out the things that are unnecessary. Oh, great, you know, potato chips are five dollars for two bags. Well, you don't need that. You just say five bucks. So you have to be vigilant in that that way as well. What what say say you, Graham?

Graham 42:56

Yeah, I I I think that's really well said. And I I think there's actually um a lot we can share. I know we've done some discussions on ways to kind of navigate um what is perceived as a more expensive uh way of eating, but actually may not be. The fact is food inflation is going to affect people that are, you know, everything from carnivore to vegan. And so I think maybe we can put our um our thoughts together on ways to get the maximum amount of nutrients out of the least amount of expenditure on a future podcast. I think that would be um something that I think we've not only do we have new information to share, because this is a never-ending journey, but based on the fact that food inflation is affecting everyone around the world, countries like Canada more than others, there may be some real important information on how to maximize your nutrient dollars. So something to consider for the future. Stephen, the guidelines, I think it's safe to say, are a step in the right direction. I'd like to hear your thoughts on. That. And I also want to hear if you were the master of all masters, what would you have included in addition in order to not be USDA guidelines out of the park?

Stephen 44:11

Yeah, so thank you, Graham. So the first thing, and actually this is a segue from what we're talking about in terms of compressing cost, and I'm not going to go pure economics on everyone, but I will use it as a reference point. And that is around my practice of intermittent fasting. So when you think about it, arguably, I'll go economics now. I in the last several years, we'll call it nine years. I turned 59 in March. I was diagnosed nine years ago. I have embraced intermittent fasting. I don't consume more than two meals a day, max. Sometimes one meal a day, sometimes I don't eat at all. So arguably, 33% of my what up would have been my baseline cost for groceries is eliminated because I'm only consuming two meals. So if you were to be very rigorous around your budget and you're eating high-quality food, um, and if you're that your baseline was always high quality food, for which for most of us that's not the case because we're eating, you know, as we talked about fruit loops and other horrible things, then of course, you know, those things will be cut out. And I I don't even know how much you if you challenge me right now, how much is a box of cornflakes or whatever, I have no idea. It's like I I'm restricted from going into those areas of the grocery store because security will be on to me. Right. So uh I behave in that manner.

Graham 45:18

We know it's still relatively cheap and therefore somewhat attractive to somebody who thinks that you're gonna get uh some nutrition out of that, you know, similar to any other healthy food because we've been sent the wrong messages. So yeah, some there's there's a lot to uncover there.

What’s Missing: Fasting And Fat Caps

Stephen 45:35

Yeah, and the in the guidelines of overlooked time restricted eating or what we call intermittent fasting protocols. And the diet doctor, nephrologist that we hear have here, Dr. Fung, again, he's he's a board board nerf neprologist in Toronto. I mean, he was the one that really got me thinking about intermittent fasting, and you know, I dropped 52 pounds and I didn't realize, you know, what lean would look like, and I got back to pretty much close to my the weight that I was in college, but more importantly, I was it was healthy reduction in weight. It took uh several months. But um, and that was as I I went through the rhythm of of you know being plant-based, and we're not here to not plant plant-based. Like I said, I have a household where it's practiced both by my eldest daughter and my wife. But for myself personally, I found that my health outcomes increased significantly when I went to keto carnivore. My A1C trend right now is for the last like I think over a year and a half, it's been 5.7. So, um, and that's from my CGM. And because I just recently gave blood a few months ago and didn't get a call from my doctor, I'm gonna celebrate that because he only calls when he thinks I need to come in. So, you know, certainly considering intermittent fasting is part of the whole process, we've talked about autophagy before, and that's when your body naturally and appropriately cannibalizes cells that are dysfunctional. They could be junk, they could be potentially cancer forming if if left unabated. And um, again, with when your body's not in a state of inflammation and you have that metabolic flexibility, your body's more efficient at keeping you healthy. You know, it's it's it's the you know, we don't put bad gas in our car and expect that you know you're gonna top um, you know, the the quarter mile, right? So think of your body like like like uh responding like a race car, um, the higher quality stuff you put in there. Um and higher quality is not just food, but it's also um how you think and and and how you go about it, you know. Uh Yant built on that that example, it it really comes down to what you're comfortable with. You you mentioned off off uh offline that uh you had uh mentored and coached a close friend and he got uh as far as five days and felt amazing on days three, four, and five. That is very common. Um I will say though that if you're they they recommend, and when I say they, the the whether it's Dr. Mandel, Dr. Burke, or others, you know, if if it you haven't done it before, you know, maybe talk to your doctor um about it. If you get pushback, you'll be in the same boat as you and I were in, and we did our own due diligence and we're educated enough and and focused enough to make sure that we're watching what our body's doing. Um it might be worthwhile underlining to Graham that please, folks, if you haven't done intermittent fasting before, don't start with a five-day. You'll never do it again if you do. By way of example, I recall the first time I experienced intermittent fasting, it's when I had to have a colonoscopy because I couldn't eat for 24 hours. And I was ready to tear the tiles off the wall in the hospital. I was so hungry and and and at a level of anger that I I'm honestly I'm glad they put me out for the colonoscopy. So the second time I did it a few years later, I didn't even change anything. I just walked in and they're like, hey, when did you last eating? I don't know, Wednesday. It's Friday morning. Everything all right? I'm like, yeah, it's more than all right. Didn't even bother me. I don't even know after I I had the procedure if I even bothered eating. So and I see the results again, my insulin sensitivity and which is off the turret, despite, you know, all of these things. So I truly believe that, you know, independent of everything else, clearly, if you're eating bad food, my friend, that's not gonna help you. Intermittent fasting is a massive tool to help with, you know, insulin sensitivity and along with with eating properly.

Graham 49:21

Yeah. Um, and uh we we we definitely want to cover um some more details on intermittent fasting. And to your point, um doing the homework is critically important. I commonly do 24-hour uh fasts and feel great. It it's no it's not an effort, uh, whereas it would have been an effort five years ago. Um and that uh takes me to the next item on the list. If I could uh wave my wand and add something, I probably or change something in this case, I guess. I probably would have lifted the 10% saturated fat cat. Now, saturated fat is fat from things like eggs, beef, fish. So these are whole saturated fats. We're not talking about unsaturated fats from plant-based uh fats, you know, avocados is a great example, or olive oil, and we're not talking about polyunsaturated fats from things like uh seed oils, uh like canola oil. Um we're talking about saturated fats here. There is a cap of 10%. Um I uh I I eat much more than that in my diet. That's my own personal choice. Um it satiates me. I know um it it definitely uh improves my mental health. Uh it improved my overall health. Um I've never felt better. Uh at least I can't remember feeling as good as I do uh when I went to more full fat, a full-fat eating lifestyle. So I probably would have lifted. As I said earlier in the podcast, I think this was an appeasement. I don't think they wanted to rip the band-aid off, even though I think they know that more than 10% is likely an improvement. They did put in the guidelines that uh more research is required, but which is always a good thing. Research is a very good thing. It's very difficult to do when it comes to food because double-blind studies are near impossible. You can't do them for long enough to understand what the impacts are in most cases, and you can't restrict what people eat without locking them in a building for months and months and months, and nobody wants to volunteer for that. So lifting the 10% saturated fat cap, I would probably do, but I think it's a step in the right direction. Stephen, what's on your list?

Electrolytes, Keto Flu, And Baselines

Stephen 51:24

Yeah, that's a good point. Again, uh, folks, these are just guidelines and our our opinion on what we think is missing. I mean, do your own due diligence and make your own decisions for yourself. We're not here to trash uh the recent guidelines only to inform. So the next thing that, again, you and I noted was so far for very low carb or ketogenic diets appeared to be missing. Uh, there were some hints at it, but you know, one of the problems with these guidelines, if it's it isn't explicit, as you well pointed out, then people will tend to gloss over. It's like reading the manual for your car, like, oh, you know, make sure there's sufficient pressure in your tire, and you're like, yeah, but that's not what I'm here for. I'm looking at something else. And it doesn't become an issue until you have a flat tire. So, really, what we're trying to do is to give you the opportunity to explore it perhaps more uh readily around what will work for you more quickly. Because no one wants to feel the way I did nine years ago and have three years of it when you could have three months of it, because I had it for you know three years where I did not feel well because I was putting the right things in place that we're talking about here, but not in sufficient density and regularity to get the complete benefits. And if I went back in time and talked to my 50-year-old self, I'd be really grateful to meet Graham and Steve and who have been through it and you know have had their blood tested, know if they're deficient in in B12, know if they have just biotic bacteria. But, you know, explicitly in terms of the the things that are missing from this fluorescent in the keto community, really is around um the benefits of eliminating foods that are certainly ultra-processed. Um course, as carnivore, there we're not consuming plants. I'm more keto than carnivore, depending on the meal and the day. Uh, but again, I'm living proof of reversing type 2 diabetes through the list of all the things we discussed, including intermittent fasting. And uh, you know, and in a perfect world, we'd be happy to post uh my results. And the other thing that's interesting about this, I don't necessarily uh note the ketones to the extent that I did when I first became uh or started to to head towards Graham becoming non-diabetic and where I am now. So it's interesting because I you could really, really smell the ketones in the urine when I was, you know, because I obviously had metabolic syndrome and other things that were going on. So that seems to have normalized, which is interesting. My inflammation markers in my blood are non-existent. And I don't know if this is marketing, this is not an endorsement, but you know and I know that I'm wearing a Hume band and I have a Hume weight scale in my washroom and I measure it. And like I said, I turn 59 in March, and much to my wife's chagrin, I show that I'm metabolically 43 years old. So, you know, I would challenge people to do their own research, but clearly, if metabolically I am 43, then I reverse the aging. It even monitors, you know, how quickly you're you, you know, what you practice the day before in terms of exercise, which we don't touch on, and other things can affect overall health. So it's not a one and done. It's it's an ongoing process of fine-tuning. It's you know, the Ferrari engine, you and I are mechanics, and we're always trying to refine it to get more out of it, and that's why we're doing this podcast. So um, I don't know if you have anything to add. Otherwise, I'll uh turn it over to you.

Personalization, Labels, And Last Takeaways

Graham 54:34

Yeah, I um I think at the end of the day, the recommended, you know, they they don't talk about going keto. I I think they wanted to stay away from those things. And you know, I I totally understand why I actually, you know, when when people say, I am this, I'm carnivore, I'm vegan, I'm vegetarian. Um, in some cases that can also elicit, you know, being dogmatic about what you are. And I think there's a a couple of important things to um understand here. When you're actually doing a behavior change, and that's what we're talking about here. If you're listening to the podcast, you may already be on the journey or thinking, you know, how how can I get some more information to inform on my journey? That's what it is. It's a journey. And the way you start out is not going to be the way things are six months down the road, six months down the road from that, two years down the road from that. You're gonna constantly be shifting around things, you're gonna be constantly shifting how you prepare, how you buy food, how you prepare food, the kinds of foods that you want to consume. And so, you know, just insert your last name and the word eating lifestyle, and that's what you're on. If your name is Sam Smith, you're on the Smith eating lifestyle. You come up with your own journey. You don't need to label yourself as this or that if you don't want to. If you do want to, that's totally fine as well. And being a part of a community where um you feel supported is a critical step in the behavior change process. Most people can't do it all by themselves. I know Steven and I, for the most part, did, um but that's actually a rarity. People need support, and that's going to vary, obviously, by the person. They're, you know, being a part of a community, call it keto, call it carnivore, call it what it vegan, vegetarian, whatever community you want to be a part of, just make sure that the dogmatic approach isn't influencing you to the point where you don't want to try something that you otherwise would. And so keeping the word keto or the word uh veg you know, vegetation out of these guidelines, I think is a critical step. Um, however, uh I believe that people, for the most part, see the best improvements to their health on a low-carb eating lifestyle, which is generally where this USDA guideline is directionally going, which is great. The last one, again, if I could wave my wand, I think when you are recommending less carbs, and that's what, you know, at flipping the the food pyramid upside down, uh, where meat was at the bottom and it was only lean meats, it's now at the top and it's nutrient dense, you know, meats like steak or ground beef, that kind of thing. Whole fish, you know, chicken with the skin on, uh, thighs, that kind of thing. Anything uh that that contains fat is now recommended. Things like grains, uh carbs are lower on the list of recommended or not recommended at all. One of the things that potentially is going to happen to people, um, and I think most people will experience this to one extent or another, and that is what people call uh a keto flu. I don't think most people understand what's happening with the keto flu, but essentially your body um runs on um electrolytes, and electrolytes are sodium, potassium, magnesium. The real salt, uh, you know, pink Himalayan salts, real redmond salts, you know, they it's a little more expensive, but well worth it in my opinion. They contain sodium, potassium, magnesium, and in addition to that, you can actually buy electrolyte formulas. I recommend getting them from a reliable brand. Look into their the ingredients, make sure that you're not getting unnecessary fillers and you know flavoring that might actually work against your, you know, you the goals in your journey. But what ends up happening when you cut down the uh number of carbs, your body decides, you know what, I don't need all this water anymore. I'm gonna flush it. And for a lot of people, the initial weight gain is actually water uh being flushed out of the body. Having a scale that measures your your water weight, your muscle weight, your bone weight can really help in understanding where your weight loss is happening. I saw the water weight going down for the first couple of weeks. What ends up happening with that is you're flushing the electrolytes of sodium out of your body, which can be a good thing. Uh, however, your body does need that to run. And so you're going to feel like you are running on low fuel and you can't figure out why. And in some cases, people think, oh, maybe it's the diet. Maybe this really isn't good for me. Well, my recommendation is if you would want to go down this journey, stick it out because that is going to fix itself. But in the meantime, you may want to backfill um good quality electrolytes. I still take them uh because I believe sodium, potassium, magnesium levels need to be optimal. You can get those soup on broth, by the way, if you want to make your own. But that is a good idea to make sure that you're maintaining that so that you avoid as much of the keto flu as possible, which can actually work against you mentally in thinking this is a good way to go. So I would have suggested that maybe electrolytes be something that uh gets on people's radar if they want to go down this journey. And uh that's something that um people may want to consider if this is an area that they would like to explore further. Stu.

Stephen 59:41

Yeah, I have a few things to add to uh and and those are really good points. So the keto flu, you're right. It's like I was just l listening to a podcast the other day, and I'd never thought of this. And we if you prefaced any sentence, maybe it means you don't know. You're get kind of guessing, right? Like it's as you had said. So more often than not, people are under the assumption that when somebody stumbles in a marathon and they're near the end and they sort of collapse, that that's because they're dehydrated. More often than not, that's not the case because they're fed by water along the way. And what does water do? It dilutes the sodium and it's coming out in the sweat. So they're actually going into that sort of shock state, their body's going to shock state because of the loss of electrolytes. It's not actually because they don't have enough water in their system. It's the opposite. They've diluted it. So, and I know for a fact, and I would recommend people stick to their own facts, see your doctor, naturopath, whoever you prefer. I see my naturopath and have my magnesium measured. And even though I consume a lot of meat, I have low B12 on a typical basis. I've had IVs and injections to bring it back up. It could just be the way my DNA is, the way I am genetically. So again, to be informed allows you to make um choices. So you're not thinking, yeah, I'm doing a marathon and I'm stumbling here because I'm dehydrated. I make the problem worse by trying to solve the problem the wrong way by further diluting the amount of sodium that you're passing through your system. So I think that's a really, really important thing because more often than not, that fatigue isn't coming from dehydration, but from omitting these key electrolytes. And I did reference B12 because that's often one of the things we're deficient, because a lot of those ultra-processed foods will rip those out of your system. So you may have an equalized level of sodium, potassium, magnesium, and then you introduce something else that that uh bonds with it and takes it out. The other thing I would say too is if as Dariam said, if you're gonna look at supplementing with sodium, potassium, and magnesium, another one I would I would I I do as well, and you can refer to Dr. Berg and others as vitamin D3 for those of us that live in Canada where you know it's dark by you know 4:30, 5 p.m., um you're gonna be vitamin D deficient, you're gonna be zinc deficient, likely, uh, which isn't correlated to the sun, but they just seem to go together. You'll find these deficiencies. So a lot of that, as you said, will put an arrow in the presumption of keto fluid because it's really, you know, that's a that's a term we made up that's socially acceptable, but in reality, as you pointed out, it's more often than not deficiencies in other areas that may that really don't have anything to do with intermittent fasting, but um are a consequence of not doing it properly.

Graham 1:02:18

Yeah, um, really well said. The only thing that I would add on to that is, and I I think this is sort of your underlying point, Stephen, if you are in the early stages or just gathering evidence, um, you know, trying to get, you know, information to form your opinion on whether this is the right lane to go down, it's a great idea to go to your doctor and get your standardized blood tests, you know, uh, which is gonna hopefully, and if it's not, make sure you remind your doctor I'd like uh my B12 levels checked. I want my triglycerides, A1Cs. There's gonna be a fairly common uh grouping of blood results that you're gonna want to ask for. What's the benefit to this? You now have a baseline for the start of your journey. If you don't have a baseline, you don't have anything to compare it to. I found the blood results because I went for a regular checkup and realized that they were really going in the wrong direction. And I got a stern warning from the doctor. So I had my baseline. It wasn't that I was thinking about changing the journey. That was my low point that forced me into a behavior change. And we all have that point that forces us into behavior change. So mine came with the benefit of having a baseline, which I then was able to compare to 14 months later when I had completely changed my eating lifestyle, went back to the doctor and got the green light, uh, whatever you're doing, keep doing it, everything's excellent. I got no concerns. Well, I had something to compare to to understand not only where I was at from a blood work point of view, but also where I was at from my eating lifestyle and the impact it was having on my health. Obviously, if all my blood results got worse, I was gonna have to make changes. But the fact that they all turned around in the right direction told me that the journey that I was walking down was exactly the right journey for me. And when you have that baseline, it can give you the confidence that you're going in the right direction.

Stephen 1:04:09

Yeah, I was just gonna add, Graham, I think that's a a really important point that you've made. Because separate from this update that we're, you know, we're anchoring around the uh U.S. uh food guide uh transition to what it is today in 2026, you raise an important point. Is the approach to health span is is holistic. It's not strictly mindfulness, it's not strictly intermittent fist uh fasting, it's not strictly the quality of food, it's the type of food as well, and when you're eating it. There's a lot of different things that are at play here. And of course, the food guide is a strict, uh, a strict uh representation of consumption of food, but care in the foods you consume, care in your health is much broader than that. And I think it's worth pointing out too that remember, dietitians, more often than not, at least where we we are anchored inside of a medical practice. So this is what they are following, and this is what they're suggesting. So you have to use a little bit of personal discernment. They're going to be catching up on this stuff. It is a change. Some are more rigorous about that, I'm sure, than others, just like you can get good plumbers and bad electricians, whatever. So it's important for you to, God forbid, but read the manual and keep yourself informed. And even when, and it's it's interesting because I've had people say, well, if these tests are so important, like testing your B12 and iron, why is my doctor not recommending it? And why do I have to pay for it? And that's very common in Canada. And I would say advocate for what it is you want and uh skip a meal out at a restaurant that month, cover the cost of the B12 and the iron test, right? So, because when my metabolic system was really off nine years ago, they thought that I had an overabundance of iron and I wasn't eating meat at the time. So they they um they they I was on the border when. My my iron levels were so high I was on the borderline of dysregulated disease. And so they continued to monitor it. And yet it came down and normalized when I started eating meat. And so you know, I didn't see uh the irony. Yeah, exactly. Uh pun intended and received. You know, I didn't, I at that time was not seeing an endocrinologist, nor do I do now. And he probably or she would have spotted right away that had nothing to do with it. But it's that sort of thing is people will guide and say, Well, I don't understand. Like, why am I doing all this stuff? My doctor doesn't do it. Well, you need to be your own doctor. We've talked about this before, and you need to be informed. And more often than not, when even and I'm sure you had the same experience, you ask your doctor for some of these tests, and they're like, Well, those are not covered. Like, okay, let me know where I need to send the check, right? So you have to look at it in those terms saying, look, if I don't have a good baseline, like you just said, how do I compare where I'm going? How do I where is the math for me to compare? Where can I do a gap analysis from where I was nine years ago to where I am now, beyond just what the CGM is saying, beyond what Hume is saying, but actual blood results, because you can't argue with those. But for instance, potassium is a good one. A lot of people are deficient in potassium. I'm deficient in potassium, so I started taking that as a supplement. Yet you and I here, like I don't eat bananas, so I don't can I don't get my potassium that way, but there are other ways to get it because more often than not, bananas can also be a sugar bomb unless you like them really, really green. I don't. So you have to be careful about where you're trying to get it naturally. And also, I know this is a bit out of scope, but what this also doesn't talk about is, well, how much do I need in all cases of these things? They're talking as a percentage of your overall consumption. But the reality is when you drill into this and go, well, what's the you know, the ultimate ultimate amount of polyphenols, for instance, that I could consume in order to get the benefits from blueberries, for instance, and you'll find that that will be contrarian to how your sugar will rise with that amount of blueberries, because you can't eat as a diabetic two cups of blueberries to get all the polyphenols. You have to get it from somewhere else, like olive oil that's you know, um got a very, very low glycemic index. So it's not it's not a one-and-done thing, like you said.

Graham 1:08:11

Yeah, what a great way to wrap things up, Stephen. We hope you all enjoyed this episode where we attempted to provide a simplified comparison of the old versus new USDA guidelines. Thank you very much for listening to another episode of Lessons from the Ketoverse. And Stephen, always a pleasure. Uh, we'll see you next time.

Introduction 1:08:32

Likewise, thanks, Graham. Thanks for tuning into Lessons from the Ketoverse. Join Stephen and Graham next time for more keto tips and stories to feel your health. Subscribe, share, and let's keep the keto vibes going.