Navigating Reproductive Mental Wellness: Oophorectomy, Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder (PMDD), and Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT)

Dana is a dedicated literacy educator, passionate social justice advocate, and resilient survivor of Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder (PMDD). Her personal and professional journey reflects a profound commitment to both individual healing and community empowerment. Despite long-held aspirations of becoming a mother, Dana made the courageous and medically necessary decision to undergo surgical menopause—including a bilateral salpingo-oophorectomy and hysterectomy—at the age of 33 as a treatment for PMDD.

Her path has been shaped by years of grappling with complex mental health challenges, as well as an earnest and heartfelt pursuit of single motherhood by choice through donor insemination. Ultimately, Dana made the difficult yet empowering choice to relinquish the possibility of biological motherhood in order to safeguard her mental, emotional, and physical well-being.

Currently pursuing a Ph.D. in Educational Psychology, Dana remains deeply committed to nurturing and supporting the development of children through her work and personal life. She continues to find purpose and fulfillment in fostering the growth of other people’s children and remains open to the possibility of becoming an adoptive parent in the future.

Transcript

Dana Raine: 0:03

Just the reality of a major surgery of losing my reproductive organs, which was just really a huge deal, and then just the knowing that I would never be able to have biological children, and after trying and not being successful.

Announcer: 0:19

Welcome to perinatal and reproductive perspectives. This is a podcast where we empower birthing individuals, partners and health professionals with evidence based insights, holistic strategies and relatable stories hosted by a healthcare expert. This podcast fosters understanding equity and growth in perinatal and reproductive health. Here's your host, Becky Morrison gleed,

Rebecca Gleed: 0:52

hello everyone. I'm really excited today for a special guest on perinatal and reproductive perspectives. This is Dana rain, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, tell our audience a little bit about yourself, and I want to let folks know right away that I heard your story on a different platform, and we're really lucky to have your perspective in that there's so many complexities, there's so many layers. I'm really excited to introduce you to everybody.

Dana Raine: 1:29

Thank you so much. So yes, my name is Dana, and I'm in my mid 30s. I'm a single woman. I'm not currently a mother, but that has always been a dream of mine, and I still hope someday that that will happen for me. But my journey, it is a little bit complex, and there are a lot of layers to it. So I I actually was diagnosed with PMDD, or premenstrual dysphoric disorder, and that was almost 10 years ago now that I found out about that, and so since then, I've kind of been well before that, I was on quite a mental health journey without really knowing what was going on. And then once I was diagnosed, things kind of made a lot more sense, but I ended up needing to have my entire reproductive system removed, which was difficult, especially since I wanted to be a mom. And so that was almost a year ago now that I had that surgery. And so since then, I've just kind of been continuing to heal. So that's kind of a little bit about my background and my reproductive journey.

Rebecca Gleed: 2:40

Yeah, well, thank you for the introduction. Can we go back to the very beginning and tell us a little bit more of your mental health journey? Tell our audience the diagnostic process that you went through for PMDD. Can you speak a little bit more about

Dana Raine: 2:58

Yeah, definitely. So, like I said, probably starting around 1213, years old, I started with a lot of anxiety, and almost like even some OCD tendencies, which was really interesting to go through at that time. And I also went through times of depression. So just kind of like very typical mental health challenges. And so I think I was 14 when I was put on my first medication, and I was in therapy and doing all of those things, and I was able to, you know, high school went really well, and I was able to graduate high school, go to college. Was challenging mental health, wise, how? So no, I had I being away from home for the first time, I think for anybody is kind of difficult, but I would definitely have some really low points where I just had awful anxiety. Didn't know if I was going to be able to make it through college, just because I wanted it was like I wanted to just go back home, like it was so hard being on my own because of the challenges that I was facing, and I was consistently in therapy, and just didn't really understand why everything was so hard for me. But it was I but I also was very high achieving at the same time, and I had a lot of goals, and I was doing really well in college. That was a difficult part is that I was getting, like, straight A's in my classes. I had 4.0 semesters, and on the outside, it looked like I was, you know, like nothing was wrong, and that I was doing really well, but I hid everything that was going on, and kind of kept it very private so and really struggled alone quite a bit, but I ended up graduating from college, I became a teacher, and it was really after my first year of teaching, I hit another really low point with mental health, and that was when I. First learned about PMDD or premenstrual dysphoric disorder, and

Rebecca Gleed: 5:06

that's more about that. What is that as? Yeah, yeah.

Dana Raine: 5:10

So it was really eye opening, because I had no idea what it was, and I think it's starting to become a little bit more widely known, a little bit more talked about, but about 10 years ago, it really wasn't. So PMDD is basically a really severe form of PMS. And I don't even like to use the term PMS when talking about it, because it is so different, but I think that that's just a good way to give people a frame of reference for what it is. But it's basically a disorder. It's a brain disorder, so hormones can be totally normal and not off balance. So it's not necessarily a disorder of hormones, but it's just the way that the brain responds to the normal fluctuations of hormones throughout the menstrual cycle. But it can manifest itself in ways that are very similar to lots of other mental health and mood disorders. It can look a lot like anxiety. It can look a lot like depression. Can also look a lot like bipolar disorder, because you are going through these cycles with your menstrual cycle where you'll have high points where you're functioning really well, and things are going really well with your mood, and you feel pretty stable, mental health wise. And then your luteal phase. So once you hit ovulation, you go into your luteal phase of your cycle, so about the two weeks before you actually get your period, and that is for most women with PMDD, that's where things get really bad. And some of the main symptoms, I've said, anxiety, depression, a lot of irritability, mood swings, binge eating is a big one for a lot of women, insomnia, sometimes just pure rage, all of those different symptoms looking like, obviously for everybody, a little bit different. So it can be really hard to diagnose and to understand, because, you know, going to all these therapists and counselors and psychiatrists over the years, nobody once had thought of it as a possibility or brought it up to me at all. So it was really something that I had to I actually the way that I found out about it and was able to self diagnose and advocate. Was Googling, literally, I was having just really, really intense depression, feeling awful, and then getting my period, and for the first time, kind of making that connection. And it was, I was like, Wait, like, Could this be related, because I knew about PMS, and I'd felt like, sometimes I was like, Man, I feel like, maybe I'm experiencing some PMS, but that was the first time where the real mental health struggle with the period side of things clicked for me, and so I googled severe PMS, and that's when I learned about PMDD.

Rebecca Gleed: 8:00

And you gave so many beautiful examples of how this can manifest, whether it's depression or rage or insomnia. How did it present for you? And if you could offer audience, because it's one thing to intellectualize this, it's another thing to share the story the granular What did this actually look like, feel like, or maybe some stories you can share so can feel a little bit more human.

Dana Raine: 8:26

Yeah, yeah. And thank you for that, because I think it can get we can kind of gloss over it, you know, and say, like, oh, I had anxiety and I was depressed, but yeah, like it. I mean, it was, and it still is, just such a huge part of my life and really defined so much of how my life has gone. So I would say, first of all, it can just, it can feel like pure hell, yes, yeah. It can just feel, it feels isolating. So anybody who's experienced really just severe depression that just had days where I, you know, didn't want to get out of bed, didn't want to do anything, but at the same time, just had that really strong desire to succeed and achieve. So feeling like this push and pull of one part of myself just feeling so awful, but then the other part of myself saying no, but you can do it, and you need to do it. But I had times where I just remember laying there and feeling like I don't want to do anything, but I also don't not want to do anything, if that makes sense, like I just could

Rebecca Gleed: 9:34

you reconcile some of that? Or what did was their dissonance that, yeah, like, it just the

Dana Raine: 9:39

feeling of like, wanting to crawl out of my own skin and not even wanting to exist. And there were some really difficult low points, and even there was some suicidal ideation involved, which is actually that is one of the big markers of PMDD. Also, I'd say most women who. People who experience this, they go through some type of suicidal thoughts or ideation. And I think I read somewhere, I think 15% of women with MDD will attempt so, not even ideation, but will actually attempt suicide. Yeah, it can get pretty dark, but for me, I think I would have times like I mentioned in college, where I knew that I was smart and I knew that I was capable, and I had done really well in classes, but I would have times where I'd be in a class and I would just want to start crying, and times where I even did like I would just start tearing up in class because I felt so incapable. I had brain fog that would just come over me, and I it would like zap any of my, you know, ability to feel like I could think or function. And so I'm taking these college courses, and now I'm feeling like I'm dumb or I can't do it. And so just really wanting to give up on that. It had huge implications for relationships, so I've seen it a lot, but never really had a serious relationship or a long term relationship, and I want to

Rebecca Gleed: 11:08

give the relationship piece its own, okay, okay, but before we pivot, that sounds really hard and layered in that here you are a high achiever, and then you have brain fog just wash over you when you have if I remember from your story that you are not just you're in Boston, you Were in the intellectual paradise. So I imagine even more so in such a move from your family, this wasn't just nothing. It was you had moved across the country looking forward to achieving some of these dreams, and then also having to navigate

Dana Raine: 11:59

this, yeah, and not knowing what this was, either

Rebecca Gleed: 12:02

not knowing what it was, yeah, oh, it was

Dana Raine: 12:05

yeah, I isolated myself, for sure. I gained a bunch of weight because that was like eating was one of my coping strategies. Was really frustrating, because it was a coping strategy for some of the symptoms, like the anxiety and the depression, but it was also a symptom in and of itself, because binge eating is actually like one of the listed symptoms of PMDD. So I was doing that. I had social anxiety. I was just isolating myself in my dorm. It got pretty dark and pretty lonely and just scary, and it was really hard not to just blame myself and feel like everything that was happening was something wrong with me, and I was trying to get help. I was on medication, I was seeing a therapist, but it just it was it just didn't feel like anything was really helping, or it would help for a little while. And that was the other thing with this, because it's cyclical. I would have times where I would feel more capable, and I could kind of come out of it and start to get my feet back under me, and then it would all come crashing down again, and I didn't know why. I didn't understand what was happening. So yeah, just really hard to feel like it was not my fault, or that there was something else that I could have been doing or should have been doing. You

Rebecca Gleed: 13:30

are working hard that stands out to me. You are hope, seeking, going to therapy, doing this research, trying to show up every day amidst this depression, anxiety, fog, and then the cyclical nature. Sounds complicated, too, really, really hard. And I'm so glad we're giving voice to some of these lesser known reproductive conditions. One example that I have folks in my practice come with PCOS, for example. And there's a lot of feelings around, like the excess hair or the weight gain when they're exercising, they're eating healthy, and yet it's just a symptom of the PCOS. And so thank you for coming on and giving voice to PMDD, anything else around the diagnostic piece that you can share with the audience.

Dana Raine: 14:24

Yeah, so I think that's really, really important, because, like I said, I went through about at least 10 years of this, of not knowing and then and having been going to psychiatrist and therapist the whole time, but never knowing what that was, or hearing about it. So really, having it be that Google search that led me to that diagnosis in the first place, and I want to tell people, it's iapmd.org That's the International Association of premenstrual disorders. And

Rebecca Gleed: 14:56

I'll add that to the show notes. What I I don't I'm not familiar. At that resource. It's

Dana Raine: 15:01

a huge resource, a huge help. It's an international association, and great they have they connect you with so many resources and give you information so that you can be empowered in your health. So I learned so much from that, and started tracking my own cycles and tracking my symptoms with my cycles in my mood, and that was kind of how I was able to self diagnose, after several months of being able to kind of prove out and see the patterns and see when are my symptoms really spiking, and when am I seeing this happen, and am I seeing relief after my period comes in those couple weeks before I ovulate again. And so had that, and I brought it to my psychiatrist, and I also brought it to my gynecologist. And this is something that I also really like to speak about, is that in the medical community, it is not as well known as it should be. And again, I think that that's changing. I think it's getting better, maybe 10 years ago, not as much, but it's a condition that's at this weird intersection between women's reproductive health and mental health. Yes, are two stigmatized health conditions and things that people don't really like to talk about either one, and then you put them together and it makes people all kinds of uncomfortable. Yep, she's just

Rebecca Gleed: 16:23

on her period, all the stigma and labels, Yep, yeah,

Dana Raine: 16:29

and things that people think that you should be able to just pull yourself out from on your own if you work hard enough, yep. But I experienced psychiatrists not really knowing a whole lot about PMDD. But then I also experienced gynecologists not really knowing a whole lot about it. And so feeling like, where am I supposed to go? Who's really gonna help me with this? And so being having resources to learn and be able to take things to my providers, sometimes, to kind of get them up to speed or understanding was really important. And I also, I had some doctors were a little bit resistant or hesitant, and it took a while to get them to actually put that diagnosis on my chart and put down PMDD, which was fine. I'm like, you can call it, it's it acts like depression and anxiety. Like I'm fine with that, and I think I still do, and we'll get to this, but I think I still do have, I know I still have some anxiety and some depression, so like that can be on there as well, but I think it's important to label it and to get that official diagnosis can be really, really validating and important.

Rebecca Gleed: 17:39

Yeah, you highlight something in the clinical world, which we call diagnostic clarification or differentiation, and sometimes symptoms can be captured by one, but what you're saying is these were separate, and it was quite a journey to be able to tease out what's what you did the work, and then You presented that to professionals where you were collaborating. How did that feel to go to some of these OBS or psychiatrists and have them not really fully understand or knowing the realm of the reproductive piece? It was

Dana Raine: 18:19

frustrating. It felt kind of lonely a little bit, or just made me feel helpless, because it's like, well, wait a second, if you don't know who's gonna help me. And at the time, I was living in kind of a smaller town, not as big, and I ended up actually going to a larger city. So I was living in St George, Utah at the time, and I found a doctor in Salt Lake City, which is about four hours away, but I would drive to my appointments and thankfully be able to do some telehealth visits. And I'm really grateful that I was able to time off of work and have those resources to be able to do that, but I was able to find a provider in a bigger city who really had more knowledge. And I felt like she it wasn't me taking stuff to her and saying, like, hey, like, help. I need help, and I need you to understand this. It felt like, okay, I can, like, take a deep breath and feel like I'm being cared for by somebody who I can trust and who knows more than I do about this, yeah, which was really comforting. Okay,

Rebecca Gleed: 19:26

I'm glad you found someone, after all of that you could join with and get the help. Yeah? Definitely. Well, we live in systems, and part of those systems are relationships. If we can pivot into how did this influence or impact friends, family, romantic partners share with their audience that layer?

Dana Raine: 19:50

Yeah, so it was really difficult. It was really hard. I've always considered myself to be someone who's really friendly. Healthy, outgoing, loving. I have a lot.

Rebecca Gleed: 20:03

I can tell just your temperament is lovely. Thank

Dana Raine: 20:08

you. Like I just have always felt that way, like that. I'm a giving, loving person, and but there was always like something in the way. And again, I didn't really know what it was, and I didn't really understand it. The PMDD definitely impacted my family relationships. I would just have mood swings. And as my mom would describe it, she would just, she said, You were really hard to be around, like you just were difficult, like irritable and all sorts of things. And so I know I pushed a lot of people away, I to this day like I still have a really hard time maintaining friendships, and I think it's just old habits of just having a hard time getting close to people. I think because I for so long, I just wasn't able to be consistent with that. And then romantic and dating relationships were really, really hard, and I always wanted to fall in love and get married and have kids. That was always just such a huge dream for me, and so I dated a lot, but, like I said, I just never really had long term consistent relationships, and I didn't really understand why. Like, I knew that I had mental health struggles, but I still thought that I was a great person, and I still thought that I was worthy and capable of a relationship. There were a lot of relationships where I think, looking back now, I'm able to see okay, like I was not very stable. I was probably really not a very healthy partner, not a very stable partner with a lot of those relationships. So it makes sense that they weren't able to last and progress, as I would have hoped that they would have. So that made it really difficult. Do you

Rebecca Gleed: 21:55

have any advice for let's say there's a partner listening who is partnered with someone with PMDD. Do you have any words of wisdom or advice for that person who really deeply cares about their partner, and it comes with, like you said, the cyclical perhaps mood fluctuation, or they're supporting their sleep hygiene, how and what type of advice would you give them? Oh,

Dana Raine: 22:21

that is such a good question, an important question, and also a really hard question. I have a hard time. I would say, if it is possible for you to be a good healthy partner and for that person to be a good healthy partner with you, then that's great. I would hope that any woman or person assigned female at birth who's suffering through PMDD would be able to have a partner who can stand by their side and meet their needs. But also I really want to emphasize have their own needs met as well, because relationships are a two way street, and so I think it can be really easy for people to say, Well, I have PMDD, so this is the way that I act, and you need to deal with that, or you know what I mean. And so I think I would just say it's important to be careful that somebody with a partner with PMDD, or looking to get into a relationship with somebody with PMDD obviously, like I would hope that that would work out and that it would be great, but I also would caution that not to take the diagnosis or the disorder and use it as an excuse for behavior. That's not okay, because I've seen that, and I just anyway, that was kind of a, I think it's important that like both partners need to feel taken care of and need to be respected and loved. If that's the case, if it's a if it's a situation where it feels safe and healthy for both people, I would say partners who learn a lot about PMDD like that would be the first step is just to really educate yourself and understand what the symptoms are, what's actually happening, what's not happening, and just, I think, listening to your partner being there as a support system, helping them to advocate with their healthcare providers, helping them to like I think if I had had somebody in a situation in like a romantic partnership earlier on, just somebody willing to listen to me to be flexible, I think flexibility is probably a huge thing because of the ups and the downs and being willing to write it out and say, All right, you're having a tough day, like, totally get that. But then also being there on the good days too, and seeing you for all that you have to offer, and not not seeing you as the disorder alone. You know, taking the good with the bad. Add. So those are some of my thoughts. I

Rebecca Gleed: 25:03

really like that piece of educating yourself, so then you can be able to separate the condition from the individual. That sounds like a really helpful tip for partners. Let's pivot, if that's okay, to your reproductive journey outside of PMDD or within kind of this intersection,

Dana Raine: 25:26

yeah, yeah. So, like I said, I always wanted to be a mom, a parent, and I dated and dated, and I was in one really serious relationship that ended really suddenly, and just was awful, and I was in my mid 20s, and just kind of starting to feel like, man, like, Am I ever gonna even just have, like, a real long term relationship? And that's right around the time when I found PMDD and diagnosed myself with PMDD. And as I was doing research about the disorder, I was learning about different treatments, and most of the treatments for PMDD are the same for other mood disorders and mental health disorders, so things like SSRIs and mood stabilizers also different types of birth control to kind of try and level out and stabilize hormone levels. And all of those things were things that I had done before different combinations over the years, not to treat PMDD, but to treat the other things that were going on, or the things that were PMDD that I didn't know at the time. So even though I had just been diagnosed, I still had had years of experience of lots of different combinations of the treatments, and the last line of treatment for PMDD is having your ovaries removed to basically get rid of the organs that are producing the hormones that are causing your brain to have this abnormal reaction.

Rebecca Gleed: 26:55

Yeah. What is that called for anyone who may not know? So it's

Dana Raine: 26:58

an oophorectomy. Is the ovary removal, and then usually comes with so it's a bilateral salpingo oophorectomy, which is like both sides of your Oh, my goodness, I just forgot the word your ovaries and your tubes. Your Fallopian fallopian tubes. Yep. And then this

Rebecca Gleed: 27:19

terminology, I love that we're both kind of like stumping here because there's a lot and it's okay if we don't know all the grain.

Dana Raine: 27:27

Yeah, I'm like, so much, yeah, weird, yeah. And then uterus as well. So usually it's just the entire reproductive system being removed. And for a lot of women, they have had children. And so if it gets to that point where other treatments are not working, that's kind of the next logical step, and it makes a lot of sense. It's still a huge procedure, and it's still scary and major surgery, but they have children for me, I was facing Okay. I've tried all these treatments. I know that they haven't worked for me long term and I don't have children, and I don't have a long term partner, and so I really kind of made the difficult decision that I wanted to pursue single motherhood by choice. And so that was kind of my next pivot. My next journey was trying to figure out how that was going to look, because I knew I wanted to try and have at least one biological child, or, you know, despite all the difficulties that that would bring, and obviously, choosing to be a single parent is a serious decision, but that felt like the next right step for me, if I was going to be removing the option of ever having biological children again to treat my PMDD,

Rebecca Gleed: 28:47

these are some of the decisions that and there will be someone listening to this episode who's going to say, finally, I don't feel so alone. So thank you for sharing this and other individuals on this journey of pursuing single motherhood, parenthood by choice. Yeah, we're out there.

Dana Raine: 29:10

I am like, I'm so happy anytime I have a chance to share, because it can be such a lonely thing, such a stigmatized thing, such a difficult thing to go through misunderstood? Yeah, definitely misunderstood, yeah. So I ended up looking into sperm banks to find a sperm encounter, and deciding what route I'm going to go for insemination. And I decided that I was going to try IUI or intrauterine insemination, which is like a step before going like the full IVF route, which is much more expensive and much more involved. And why did

Rebecca Gleed: 29:48

that like for you to go through the different sperm donors? It

Dana Raine: 29:52

was surreal. It was really interesting. It was it was weird, not gonna lie, it was strange. It was weird. Going through it on my own too. What

Rebecca Gleed: 30:02

was strange about it just

Dana Raine: 30:05

feeling like having all of these options of like, okay, these could be potential biological fathers or of my child, and you don't see like their adult picture, but at least the sperm bank that I went to they have like baby photos and like young kid photos. So you're looking at all these like little boys, and you're like, okay, like, that's a cute kid. If my kid looked kind of like that, like, all right? And just reading about their histories and their health backgrounds just really surreal and surreal thinking about my future child. Because the whole way that was really my mindset. I knew that I was making a radical choice, and I knew that whoever this child was going to be, that I was going to bring into the world, that this was obviously going to be a huge part of their life and have an effect on them. And so I kind of always had that in the back of my head, and I would even kind of journal when I was going through this process and write almost like letters to my future child, yeah, just kind of trying to explain and trying to say, like, hey, like, I'm sorry that you're never gonna know your dad. But also this is just a testament to how much I want you and so, yeah, just this whole process was really interesting, and something that nobody that I knew personally had ever gone through or whatever wasn't something that I could talk to anybody that I knew about. So just really kind of different, I think, yeah,

Rebecca Gleed: 31:34

the IUI, can you tell anyone listening what that process was like, medically and how you experience that psychologically? Yeah,

Dana Raine: 31:43

so it was, it was, again, kind of strange. It was my first try at ever getting pregnant. So to kind of never go through a lot of women, I think they're at IUI because of infertility issues. And for me, I didn't have any history of infertility, because I had never tried to get pregnant before. So that was kind of an interesting piece of it. It's difficult because you have to time things with your cycle properly in order for to have the best chance of it working. And so when you're dealing with a sperm bank, they're shipping you sperm that's cryogenically frozen, and they ship it to you in a tank. And so just like, it was stressful to go through, like, the logistical timing process of everything, and spending a lot of money on the sperm and saying, okay, like, what date do I need to order it to make sure that it's here in time, but that it's not here too early, so that when I'm going into my doctor's office, and they're doing ultrasounds to see when the right time is for the egg for the person. Logistically

Rebecca Gleed: 32:47

complicated, I hear this a lot.

Dana Raine: 32:49

Yeah, it was a lot to hold on to in my brain, so it was a lot emotionally, but also just mentally, to kind of carry all of that and be coordinating everything. But it was also really exciting, and there was a lot of like, hope and excitement with it. And here I'm like, holy, what am I doing? This is insane, but if this works, I'm gonna be pregnant, which I really wanted, but I ended up. So I had my first insemination, and I actually, I, like, I went to the doctor's office to have an ultrasound, and he was like, Oh, I didn't think today was going to be the day, but this is the day today. So I was able to call my mom, and she, like, rushed over from work, and she was there with me, which was really cool to be able to, like, have somebody there and be part of that experience with me. And it's just like a really simple, easy in office procedure with just like, a really long little tube, basically, and the doctor just puts the unfreezes the sperm, puts it in there and inserts it, and you just lay there for like 10 minutes, and then you call it a day. So it was wild. And I was really excited and really hopeful, but I ended up not getting pregnant on that first cycle, which was disappointing. But then I was like, All right, ready for the next cycle, and this whole time too. By the way, I'm a planner, and so I had been planning for motherhood, and really just being my resources, my energy, everything towards that I, like, had bought a stroller, and I know it sounds crazy, I wasn't even hope, but I was just yeah, like, I am somebody where I'm like, I'm going to manifest it, right? I'm going to do all of the things, put all of the things in place to say, Yes, I'm ready for this, and I'm gonna, like, have a stroller in my garage, just because, like, that's how much I know that this is what's going to happen. So I didn't get pregnant. I was devastated, but I was like, All right ready for the next month, and as I was getting ready to do my second month, my second insemination, that was actually when I met my ex husband. So yeah, ended up meeting somebody during this whole process, which was really strange, but also really exciting. So I was so scared to go into single parenthood and go through that journey. So just the prospect of finally having somebody who could be a partner with me in this was huge. So I ended up, I stopped trying to get pregnant at that time so that I could focus on that relationship and he understood. I told him about PMDD, and he was understanding of that, and he said, All right, well, let's date and see where things go, and hopefully, like, I could be the father of your child, and we could do this together, so you aren't having to do this alone. So I put a lot of trust in that and a lot of hope in that, and we dated, and we ended up getting married just a little over after a year of us dating. So it was very quick. It was a quick relationship. We got married, and this whole time he had kind of been telling me, like, All right, let's date for a few months, and then we can try and have a baby. All right, let's get engaged, and then we can try and have a baby. Let's get married. So kind of moving this goal post, and which was frustrating because this whole time, I'm still dealing with PMDD, and so I'm like, I need to get pregnant. I need to have a baby so that I can the end goal here is the surgery. That's where all of this is coming from, yes, so that I can finally, hopefully some relief from all of this. So, yeah, it was difficult. I was still dealing with PMDD and so going through those intense mood swings and the crutches and irritability and anxiety and all of that. And then he also brought in his own diagnoses and kind of own issues, which was something where I was like, All right, I can do this right, like I understand mental health, like I have compassion and empathy, and I would never judge somebody for their struggles, because I have struggled. And that's where, when I talk about relationships, and somebody saying, Well, how can I support somebody who has PMDD if I'm their partner? And just really i That's why I want to make it clear, I don't know. It's not necessarily always healthy for somebody who is dealing with a mental illness or a mood disorder like that to be in a romantic relationship, and I think that's okay. Like, I think we need to not write people a blank check, I guess, to say, Okay, you have this diagnosis, this disorder, whatever it might be, and so you can act however you're going to act. And I need to get on board with that and deal with that like, it's okay to say, hey, you have that disorder, but the way that you're behaving is not okay, yeah.

Rebecca Gleed: 37:47

How do you know the difference and what were kind of those lines of like this? We need to look at relationship disillusion, as opposed to upping the empathy and compassion

Dana Raine: 37:57

so hard, it's so difficult. And I think especially like, I consider myself to be very empathetic and to really, I like to care for people, and I like to help people. And so if that's just such a fine line, I think I was going to therapy, and I think that's huge, is having somebody that you can trust kind of that third like a third party person, because I was able to describe things that were happening in my relationship, things that I had put up with for a long time because I had put the mental health label on it. And so I said, okay, like it's not their fault, but by talking to a trusted therapist and somebody who was a little bit objective, looking from outside of the relationship, and who had knowledge about mental health things and about personality disorders and all of those types of things that she was able to really help me to see that, and then again, just educating myself, she gave me a couple books to read, and then that's when kind of the light bulb went off. So I yeah, I think it's really tricky, it's difficult, and everybody has their own threshold of what's okay and what's not. But yeah, I think staying in tune with yourself, but really just having a trusted therapist is so important.

Rebecca Gleed: 39:16

So this relationship ends and your reproductive journey transforms how?

Dana Raine: 39:22

Yeah, so I, I ended up, we ended up getting divorced. I kind of drew that line where I said, this is not okay. And by that time, we had still not even tried to get pregnant throughout all of that. So I was kind of just had to heal from the divorce a little bit. But then I still, I'm like, Okay, I'm back at square one. I haven't had a baby, I haven't had the surgery. I'm still dealing with PMDD, and so I took some time to just kind of, you know, do me a little bit and just try and heal. But during that time, that's when that doctor that I mentioned, who was living about four or who was four. Hours away from where I was living. I found her, and I went to go see her, treat my PMDD, because I just wasn't getting the treatment that I needed in my small town. And at that point, I really, I was, I wanted to have a baby, but I was just so like done with everything. So I went to her, and I said, Please, I just, please, take out my ovaries, take out my uterus. I need the surgery. Like, I'm not gonna survive this. I'm so I'm so done, like, this is going to Yeah, he wanted to feel better. I wanted to feel better. And he just, I was like, This is no way to live. And I, you know, this is not and she was so compassionate and so kind. And she said, if that is really what you want, like, Absolutely, I will do that. Let's do that. But she brought up, which, it was something that I'd heard about, but it had never really seriously considered. But chemical or medical menopause, where, instead of having the surgical menopause to completely remove the ovaries, going onto a drug, which Lupron injections for a long time, was kind of the go to and now a newer drug is orlyssa, which is a pill form. She said she's like, I really just want you to try this. If you don't want to, we'll do the surgery. But this is an option for you, something that's not permanent. It will give you relief, hopefully, it will let you kind of see what life will be like after the surgery, and potentially buy you time so that if you do decide that you want to get pregnant, that will still be an option. And I'm so, so grateful that she gave me that option, and I ended up doing it and I was on. It was almost two years that I was on orlysa, and it really made such a huge difference, and I was able to see just a huge change where the PMDD was almost gone. I still had it doesn't completely shut down hormone production, but it made it so so much better. So that was such a huge gift to have that little bit of time. It bought me time I couldn't stay on it forever, unfortunately, because that would be great, right? If I could just be on that drug for the rest of my life, or however long I needed to be on it. But it's not safe, like from the trials that they've done, it's not safe for super long term use. Also, while I still had my uterus, I wasn't able to be on hormone replacement therapy, so I was basically in menopause as a, you know, 32 year old with no hormone replacement therapy, so kind of experiencing some menopause symptoms as a really young person. So that was tough, but it bought me some time once i and really was nice, because it allowed me to heal from my divorce a little bit. And then I got to a point where I'm like, All right, like I before I have the surgery, I've got to give this another try. I want to try and get pregnant again. So I got off the medicine. The great thing is, within like a month or two, your cycle comes right back to normal, which is incredible to give option to women like to absolutely it's just like such great control over your body and your reproductive health. So I, I got off the medication, got my cycle, came back, and I decided to try again, try and start getting pregnant again. And I did a couple of cycles, and it didn't happen, which again, was of IUI, uh huh, yeah. Well, and I even I, at that point, I was just getting kind of desperate. I didn't have a lot of money as, like, a single person, I'm a teacher, and so I was even going like, this is really sketchy, and I do not recommend this to anybody. But I was finding, like, sources, like sperm donors outside of a sperm bank. Yeah, you're not alone, yeah, yeah, because it's so expensive, very costly term bank, yeah. And it's really frustrating as a woman, because something that men, you know, just have, right? And it's just there, and like to have that be like, that is the piece of my life that I need to, like, lead this complete, fulfilling life. You know, for to have motherhood, I need that anyway. It was hard to deal with that reality, but I went and kind of did some where I was doing inseminations myself, without a doctor. And so I think there was definitely some it wasn't as controlled of an environment. And so I think by doing it that way, I definitely think I lowered my chances of getting pregnant. But I was just kind of desperate at that point where I was like, I just gotta, like, give myself this Hail Mary shot to see if this will work. And I think it was like, maybe three months of that, and it wasn't happening. Yeah, and I just had to surrender, which was so hard. And I just, I had to say, You know what, I think it was maybe five total attempts to get pregnant at that time, maybe four or five. And which, you know, for a lot of women, it's gonna take more than that. But I didn't know. I'm like, who knows? You know, will it be one more month? Will it be 12 more months of trying, and I needed to take care of my self and my mental health, my physical health, and so I made the really, really hard decision to stop trying to get pregnant, and I scheduled my surgery.

Rebecca Gleed: 45:36

So Dana, tell us a little bit more about how you experienced surgery, the oophorectomy

Dana Raine: 45:42

leading up to it, it was a lot of mixed feelings. There was a lot of apprehension and fear, but also a lot of just excitement and something that I mean at this. By that point, it had been years of me knowing that this was coming and planning for it and so and knowing that it was going to bring me a lot of relief. So it was really just Yeah, just a lot of excitement at the idea that it's finally happening, but also just the reality of a major surgery, of losing my reproductive organs, which was just really a huge deal, and then just the knowing that I would never be able to have biological children, and after trying and not being successful, but I just kind of always thought, probably for the rest of my life, I'm gonna think, did I try hard enough? Did I try enough time? Should I have waited? But I really just got to that point where I knew that I was ready, so I went into the surgery. My mom was there with me. She's just been an incredible support throughout this whole journey. And it was it the surgery went really well, physically. It was a great recovery. And yeah, no complications or anything like that. And then immediately after surgery, I think it was maybe, like, the day after the surgery, I started hormone replacement therapy. So up to that point, when I was on the Orissa medication that put me into chemical menopause, I couldn't be in or I couldn't be on any hormone replacement so I had no, like, basically no estrogen. And so I had a lot of side effects from menopause. And so right after the surgery, because my uterus was now gone as well, I didn't have the cancer risk of being on unopposed estrogen. So I was able to start using estrogen patches that very next day, and that also went really well. Took a little while for it to build up in my system, but it definitely helps with a lot of menopausal symptoms that I was having as a 33 year old. So some

Rebecca Gleed: 47:55

of the symptoms for maybe someone who doesn't know what menopausal symptoms are, what did you experience? So

Dana Raine: 48:03

I noticed I had a lot of joint stiffness and achiness, which was kind of weird. And it's funny, because all these little things, like, sometimes I wouldn't put them all together at first with menopause, but then, like, looking back, I'm like, oh, like, my ankles would get really stiff, especially in the mornings, like, I'd get out of bed and it would be hard to walk, or like, walking downstairs first thing in the mornings, I'm like, Oh my gosh, I can barely, like, bend my feet and and then once I got on the hormone replacement therapy, it kind of went away. And so I was like, oh, like,

Rebecca Gleed: 48:34

I think that was just men of that amazing our bodies, yeah, and

Dana Raine: 48:38

things like, I definitely had hair thinning going on. I had, I didn't have horrible hot flashes, think, thankfully, but every so often I would definitely have a little bit of a hot flash, come on, and kind of just be like, I want to just put ice on my chest, lay down with a fan. So those were kind of most of the I didn't have a lot of sleep issues, like insomnia, which I know a lot of women will go through, and as far as mood, like, that's the interesting thing. I feel like a lot of women talk about menopause and that they have issues with mood and things like depression and anxiety. And for me, in relation to PMDD, that was so much better. So I didn't I it was like, this is way back in Yeah, exactly. We'll take this. So, yeah, really overall, pretty minimal menopausal symptoms, I would say. But I definitely felt like I could tell my body, oh, I also had, like, weight gain, but in a different way. So I had gained weight throughout, like, the PMDD journey, just with binge eating and being depressed and all of that, but also, but once I was in that menopausal state, I noticed, like, the way that my fat was distributed on my body was so different, and that was hard to deal with, for sure, because I started getting belly fat, which was never really a thing before, it was more like. I had, like, curvy hips, and you that kind of thing. And now I'm like, Oh, my God, I have belly fat like this, you know. So that was hard to kind of deal with that side

Rebecca Gleed: 50:10

that can be really hard, and that I hear this a lot in my practice with relating in new ways to your body, whether it's through stretch marks or menopause or okay, my body looks much different after having a couple kids. So for you, was there a process or anything that you found helpful in terms of relating to your body in new ways?

Dana Raine: 50:32

Yeah, it's been a journey, but I think I'm still definitely on that journey. I'm still trying to find healing with my body. I think as women, it's the relationships that we have with our bodies can be so complicated and so difficult. And for me, I've come to this realization that I throughout my whole life, I've never really been comfortable with my body, even like looking back at times when I was thin, I'm like, I never recognized that in myself. I always felt like I was too big within my own skin and within my body. So I think I'm still on this healing journey, and then going through that time with menopause and having, like, the belly fat stuff, just kind of compounded it and made it really difficult. But and another thing, like with women and body image, a lot of times that is related to motherhood, and it's like, oh, since I had my baby, and, you know, like, I have baby weight and all of that, and for me, like I don't have the motherhood piece, and I've never been pregnant, and I've never given birth, and So to have to feel that disconnect with my body anyway, despite of that like, that's kind of an interesting feeling to have, and to have a body that maybe looks like I've had a few kids and I haven't. That's an interesting dynamic for me, but I've really like since the surgery and since getting onto hormone replacement therapy that's been big, finally, to not have my PMDD symptoms anymore that are causing a lot of the downward spiral, the binge eating, the depression, and then also having the hormone replacement therapy where I have that estrogen back in that's helping my metabolism and helping those things to Get back into better balance. I'm starting to see the physical benefits of that as well. So I'm kind of I feel like I'm getting back into my body. For so long, I felt so disconnected, which I think a lot of women like you said can relate to that, and feeling out of control, feeling like I didn't know who I was, and like the inner me and the outer me just not really matching up with each other. And so I'm as I'm healing psychologically and mentally and emotionally, I'm also seeing my physical body start to heal little by little. So I've just been trying to have a lot of grace with myself through that process, and just trying to be patient and learning to love myself as I am, but also loving new possibilities of who I can become.

Rebecca Gleed: 53:09

Yeah, it sounds like you've done a lot of incredible work, which is so inspiring, not just physically, but mentally, emotionally, relationally, and we often get caught up in the success stories of it took seven rounds of IVF for IUI, and there's a live birth, and it was worth it. But we don't always give space to well, at a certain point we defined enoughness, or this is the line at which we say we're going to pivot. Yeah, and thank you for sharing your perspective, because it's not always the case that there's a live birth at the end of this journey, and you had to come to some decision. I would love to hear a little bit more of how you defined. Okay, that's the line for me. I need to prioritize my own reproductive health so you can live your life. You're now in a doctoral program, and obviously there's work that you're still doing, but help our audience know a little bit more about how you came to that determination. Yeah,

Dana Raine: 54:10

and thank you for voicing that and giving space to that, because it really was one of the very hardest things that I've ever done, one of the hardest decisions that I've ever had to make in my life, but I'm so grateful that I did so I had been trying, and this was kind of a years long journey and process with twists and turns, trying marriage, like going through that, going through divorce, and then trying again to get pregnant on my own, and I just It was emotionally, it was really difficult. Financially, it was really difficult, and ultimately, I knew that the decisions that I was making as trying to become a single mother by choice, it's not something that only affects me, but it's going to affect everybody else in my life, and namely my immediate family and my. Parents, because I knew I would have to draw on them for support with things like childcare and maybe financial had a career and I was somewhat stable, but as far as being able to afford full time childcare and all of those things like I knew I was going to need help, and just having some really raw, difficult conversations with my mom and her knowing how much I wanted to be a mother, but also her seeing just the pain and heartache that I was going through trying to get there, and also her kind of saying like, this is my life as well. I should be able to have a say in in this that it was this push and pull. Because for me, I'm like, This is my life. This is my reproductive journey. This is my journey to motherhood. If I choose this for myself, like, that's my choice to make. And if I had a partner, you wouldn't have a say, right? Like in if and when I became pregnant, not a baby, but it's a weird dynamic when you're kind of expecting or hoping to get support from somebody else. On the outside of that, where you're not my romantic partner, and you're not going to be a parent or a co parent in this situation, but in some ways, you kind of are. So it was difficult, and there were a lot of hard conversations, and ultimately, it came down to realizing that I needed other people's support, and that if that wasn't going to happen, that was a boundary that those people are able to draw, and respecting that boundary for them, and just realizing, hey, like this just might not be in the cards for me, And maybe that's okay. And as painful as that is, and as much as I wish that that was not true, or that that wasn't my circumstance, I kind of called it just this radical acceptance of I have tried as hard as I can, I've put in the work. I'm somebody where if I have a goal, I'm going to do everything I can to reach it, and I had to just say it's okay. I have tried, I have put in the work, and it's okay that it hasn't gotten to that point and just coming to terms. And there was a lot of grieving, and there still is grieving, but in those weeks leading up to the surgery, oh, it was brutal.

Rebecca Gleed: 57:21

It was tough grief. Grief was pronounced, yeah,

Dana Raine: 57:25

yeah. And I would just, I would just cry. There would be days where I'd be driving to work and just kind of break down and let myself just cry and have that grief of what could have been, what should have been, but that I knew what wasn't,

Rebecca Gleed: 57:41

yeah, this is something I hear a lot, is it's so deeply personal, it's self determined, it's complex and layered. And then grief is it's a non linear, up, down, all around, and something that's often lifelong, and you speak to that so beautifully. How does grief look now? For you,

Dana Raine: 58:07

I think I'm in definitely a much different place than I was. I've come to mostly acceptance, and I've been able to kind of completely changed my life. So right around the time after I had the surgery, I made a pretty big life pivot, and I think that's been really helpful to have something else right, like to not be in the same kind of place, physically and emotionally. So I taught for 10 years I was a high school teacher, and when I had my surgery, it was right before summer break, and that just ended my last school year as a high school teacher, at least for and I also sold my house right around that frame, and I moved up to Salt Lake City, so other end of the State, and just kind of had this enormous shift of, you know, my body is changing in huge ways. My goals and dreams are changing. My physical space is changing. And I'm now, like you said, in a full time PhD program. So just having new goals, new things to be excited for and terrified for. You know, it's purpose, yeah, but like, it's kind of said, it's like this PhD program is kind of like my baby, right? And I'm putting all that I have into that, and the hard things about this, it's like, there's a lot of hard things that would have come with motherhood, but I'm putting this into myself. And had developing myself, and I really did, I had to choose me, which is hard as a woman, a lot of times right to choose yourself, but that's what it ultimately came down to. And I think coming to terms with that, and just learning to be okay with that, and seeing other. Women in my program who are mothers, and that can be hard to see, like, well, they have like, they're in school, they're getting their PhDs, but they also have kids, but also seeing the privileges that come with me not having kids, and the extra time that I'm able to put into the program that maybe they aren't. So it's, I mean, there's, it's a push and pull, and it's just kind of learning to realize that everybody has their stuff, everybody has their challenges. That's where I'm at right now. Well, a few minutes

Rebecca Gleed: 1:00:34

ago, you started tearing up. And then for those just listening to this on audio, Dana is tearing up. So if tears could talk like, what would they say?

Dana Raine: 1:00:46

I think there's just so much emotion in all of this. And I think looking back at who I am and who I've been for so many years, and seeing the growth and the development and the pain and the struggle and the heartache, and it puts me back into that place of remembering when I was in those spaces, remembering like the heartache of trying to get pregnant and not happening, putting myself into that place of finally choosing the surgery and those drives to work where I'm crying and grieving, like just reliving that and feeling all of that. Now I have a lot of, I guess, just almost empathy for my old self and also pride in those tough choices that I've made and hope for the future. I guess it's just all of these emotions that kind of swirl inside. And it is. It's amazing how much I'm able to not cry, you know, talking about this now versus a year ago, talking about it like would have been a totally different story. So it's interesting to see, yeah, just that development of the way that I process it and the way that I experience it. Yeah,

Rebecca Gleed: 1:02:05

it's so easy to make a quick deduction when someone says, Oh yeah, I'm on my fertility or reproductive journey. And just to say, Oh, cool. Good for you. But this is highly emotional and complex and medically complicated and psychologically distressing. And so thank you for sharing, because even partners or friends or family members who might have a loved one going through this, I think you really highlight and speak to those tears. This is emotional. This is heavy stuff. This is moments by yourself sitting in the car like what is the next few weeks gonna look like and feel like, or months or years, right?

Dana Raine: 1:02:48

Well, and even, Oh, see, I'm gonna cheer up friend, but like, the rest of my life, rest of your life, I'm like, I don't know if I'll ever you know, and we could talk about this more, but I don't know if, in any form, if motherhood is going to come to me, I don't know if a partnership is ever going to come to me, if I'll have another long term relationship or a marriage. And so just being in this space of openness, but loneliness and fear of it's Yeah, it is. It's the rest of my life. And so that can feel pretty heavy, and it's also it is heavy to process and go through all of this without a partner. And I think that's something that people might overlook when thinking about single women going through this, because like couples going through infertility, of course, that is so they have their totally own stories and journeys and difficulties with that. But I just can't help but think having somebody to lean on through this, having somebody to say, let's make this decision together, let's cry about this together in a way where both partners are equally invested, is something that I think I can't help but think that that could be helpful, whereas making these choices on my own could feel pretty isolating and pretty difficult. Yeah,

Rebecca Gleed: 1:04:11

absolutely. I saw this a lot during even COVID, for folks who were partnered that they couldn't have their partner, or folks who are not partnered at all going through this, and it can be extremely lonely and difficult, and then inversely, people who do have a partner, it does seem to make a big difference when there's that healthy, loving support. So to be doing this, I imagine that was really hard, and is hard to not be partnered.

Dana Raine: 1:04:39

Yeah, for sure, it's scary. It's just doing life in general. It's, yeah, it's scary. I mean, there's a lot of good things about it, and, like, I had that period where I experienced marriage, and so I'm able to kind of compare a little bit and say, okay, an unhealthy relationship or marriage, I would rather. Be single and be alone and do my own then have that so I have that perspective. But yeah, like, I'm like, man, just to have a solid, healthy partner would be really great.

Rebecca Gleed: 1:05:12

Yeah, I hear that tell us about kind of the more here and the now. Where are you at now? I've talked about this in other episodes that we're starting to pay attention to this sixth stage of grief, which is meaning making. And so I'm curious, what does meaning making look like for you?

Dana Raine: 1:05:29

I'm, like I said, kind of on this new journey, which is terrifying and exciting at the same time. So I am in full time school, and I'm just putting everything that I can into that right now. And I have hopes for the future of maybe becoming a professor or doing something else, but whatever I do that was a teacher, and I'm in an education program for my PhD, and so I just really all about uplifting humanity and helping other people. And I study literacy, so I whatever I end up doing after this or through this program, I just hope that I can help people in some capacity, however that however that looks. And I've worked with kids. I've worked with a lot of other people's kids over the years, and so I see myself continuing to do that and to use the love that I have and the talents and the strengths and the abilities to make the world a better place, even if that's not my own biological child that I'm doing that with being able to show up and help other people, and I still hope and plan to become a mother. I'm not sure what that's going to look like at this point, it terrifies me. I There's a lot of barriers to that. Obviously, now that I can't have a biological child, there's a lot of processes and finances involved with having that happen and getting my play myself back into a place in my life where it makes sense and it's feasible to be a parent, and yeah, I mean, I'm willing to take on single motherhood again through adoption. If that is something that comes my way, I really hope for that. My plan right now is to finish school, get a job, buy another home, and then be able to start my own little family. I'll be a lot older than I ever would have planned on becoming a mother. But I it's amazing in 2025 all of the role models that we have of families and what families can look like and what families should look like, and women choosing to wait to have kids, or even if it's not a choice that they're for whatever circumstances, having children later on in life, or not having children at all, and and that's definitely a possibility too for my future. So I'm just right now, just really trying to be very open minded about all of this. Yeah,

Rebecca Gleed: 1:08:17

well, another lens is by you sharing your story. And I at least felt this way when I listened to you on another podcast platform, just the nurturing nature that you have, and I'm guessing that you will be mothering so many individuals listening to this episode of feeling heard and seen and loved. And those are beautiful mothering traits. So don't underestimate the power of you know, mothering in different forms. Truly, that's I reached out hearing your story was so compelling and it's so compassionate and dynamic. So I'm so grateful for you coming on.

Dana Raine: 1:08:58

Thank you so much, and that's my hope, is just to give a voice, give a face to these types of issues and these life circumstances, because it can be a really lonely, difficult place. And I do. I am very nurturing, and I have a lot of that love to give. So I do. I hope that's how thrill and it does it really does give to the world. That's, that's, that's who I am. So, yeah,

Rebecca Gleed: 1:09:27

yeah, of course. And any future students that you have too Well, where can folks find you? For anyone who wants to reach out? What platforms are you on? Where can people reach you?

Dana Raine: 1:09:38

So really, I'm mainly just on Instagram, and my Instagram handle is, it's Dana Rayna. So it's I T, S, D, A, N, A, R, A, I n,

Rebecca Gleed: 1:09:50

a, awesome. Yes. For anyone listening who could use a connection or wants to follow Dana, there it is. Thank you so much again for coming. On. Thank

Dana Raine: 1:10:01

you for having me. It's been great.

Unknown: 1:10:07

If you would like to learn more about how we can help, visit our website at perinatal reproductive wellness.com, and while you're there, check out the latest edition of our book employed motherhood. We also invite you to follow us on social media at employed motherhood. Finally, if you enjoyed listening to the show, please subscribe and rate it. Thank you. You