Perinatal Pleasure: Yes, We're Going There

Pleasure during pregnancy and after birth is one of the least talked-about parts of the perinatal experience—yet it’s something so many people quietly struggle to understand or reconnect with. In this episode, Jordin Wiggins opens up an honest, judgment-free conversation about pleasure, intimacy, and the physical and emotional shifts that happen before and after baby.

From changing hormones and body image to discomfort, fear, and evolving relationship dynamics, we explore why pleasure can feel so different—and sometimes out of reach—during this season of life. Jordin shares practical insights and compassionate guidance to help normalize these experiences, reduce shame, and support a more connected, informed approach to your body and relationships.

Whether you’re pregnant, postpartum, or supporting someone who is, this episode offers a refreshing, real look at what’s often left unsaid—and how to navigate it with confidence, curiosity, and care.

Transcript

Jordin Wiggins: 0:00

Sex isn't this box that we check or this destination. It's fluid throughout our lives, and especially for women, we go through many changes, many stages, and when we're always trying to get back to the sex that we were having when we first met, we're really shrinking what's possible or what's going to feel good at different stages throughout our lives.

Unknown: 0:30

Welcome to perinatal and reproductive perspectives. This is a podcast where we empower birthing individuals, partners and health professionals with evidence based insights, holistic strategies and relatable stories. Hosted by a health care expert, this podcast fosters understanding equity and growth in perinatal and reproductive health. Here's your host, Becky Morrison gleed. You

Rebecca Gleed: 1:03

welcome everyone to another episode of perinatal and reproductive perspectives. We're in for a treat today, because we are here with Dr Jordan Wiggins, aka the pleasure doctor. She is coming to us all the way from Canada. She's a naturopathic doctor and the author of the pink Canary. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. So we're going to talk sex today. We wanted to give just permission to just show up, and this is a no judgment zone. We're going to ask the questions that everyone wants to but doesn't. And I'm so grateful to have you on just to give you, know, space to talk about sex during pregnancy, sex postpartum. I hear this a lot. As a therapist, they'll tell me, but beyond that, we're not really talking about it with our friends or publicly or on social. Yeah,

Jordin Wiggins: 1:51

there's so much. And even as somebody like medically educated and trained, I have multiple degrees, there were things during pregnancy and delivery that I did not know

Rebecca Gleed: 2:06

you and I both Yep,

Jordin Wiggins: 2:08

and it's like, how, how is this possible that I'm shocked by

Rebecca Gleed: 2:14

Yeah,

Jordin Wiggins: 2:15

and I'll give you a specific example after you deliver and and I mean obviously, like, logically, obviously. But when you pee and you need your like, Perry bottle because of the the tears and the urine burning, like, logically, obviously. But when I went to go pee and then my midwives, like, wait, wait, and trying to give me the bottle to pee. I'm like, What are you doing? She's like, it's getting burnt. But how did I not know that?

Rebecca Gleed: 2:50

Yeah, and so we're going to have an expert you, Dr Wiggins, to speak to some of these questions that we might be asking ourselves, but just are too afraid to ask before we jump in, though, can you tell the audience a little bit about yourself and what brought you into this space?

Jordin Wiggins: 3:07

Sure, I had hormone issues. I am a sexual abuse survivor. I've had a couple cysts on work and talking about going there, I'm just gonna lay it all out there. Thank

Rebecca Gleed: 3:23

you.

Jordin Wiggins: 3:23

I had a couple surgeries on my vagina, on cysts, which, if we look at things from the Chinese medicine perspective, and just like where things stagnate might be related to the abuse, or like the stored trauma in my pelvic floor. So I had had surgery and stitching in my vagina, much like postpartum post delivery as a teen, before I was even sexually active or had like penetrative sex. So pelvic pain, pain with sex, desire, issues, healing from abuse, that was all sort of my personal story, and navigating those things through conventional medical care. There were so many gaps, and I felt very alone, very full of shame. Didn't feel comfortable asking doctors about things, and it sort of just after that surgery, they just kind of stitch you up and send you home, much like postpartum. So I never wanted anyone to feel as alone as I felt, and I wanted to become a naturopathic doctor, to have longer visit times and be able to answer those questions and not have to practice in an in an algorithm that I felt wasn't sufficient for women's health. So then I opened. A Women's Health Clinic thinking that I could solve all of our health problems with accurate hormone testing, prescribing hormones for women, which had been historically like withheld and anyways, but yeah, accurate testing and improper treatment to help prevent disease and help prevent women from feeling so alone. And then I did that, and that was going amazingly well, but the common theme was women were coming to me saying, I don't have desire. We have mismatch libidos in my relationship, and it's a big, big problem, and then all of the tools that I'd been taught to treat low libido weren't working. So then that's when I went deep down that rabbit hole, which was much like myself at the time, in a sexless marriage, I had everything I said I wanted in life, my thriving medical clinic, my house, my car, like I ticked all those boxes, and then it was just like, I'm flat here. I'm an hedonic how, like, what's going on. So that's why I wrote the pink canary in 2019 which sort of discusses the pleasure problem and kind of positions like low libido, low desire, as a warning sign for other health problems that we have, right? And if we're stressed, we're in fight or flight, our body is prioritizing safety.

Rebecca Gleed: 6:49

We're

Jordin Wiggins: 6:49

not pride, yeah, exactly. We're not prioritizing reproduction at that point. So to me, we talk about sleep, we talk about nutrition, we talk about weight, like these pillars of fundamental health and longevity. Looking at libido and desire as one of those markers is like super it's super important and foundational, in my opinion, and then so just all the facets of desire, arousal, pain with sex that's really become what I've done sort of exclusively, like sexual health and wellness for the last seven, eight years.

Rebecca Gleed: 7:37

And I always appreciate practitioners like you who have that personal lens and have transformed pain or trauma or abuse into something so beautiful that can be then imparted to patients or clients or friends or you know, whoever that is, let's pivot if it's okay, more specifically, into pregnancy. And I'm sure that you see this a lot of maybe there's a shift from, okay, now I'm pregnant, oh my gosh, my libido has changed, or my comfort with sex has changed. Can you tell the audience of like, maybe a few different profiles you might see with someone who's pregnant coming to you?

Jordin Wiggins: 8:19

Oh, for sure. I love this because pregnancy, it's totally different, like how you were before, and then during it's variable, and there really is no normal so sometimes I have these clients that their desire and libido is really high during pregnancy, like higher than normal. And then sometimes that becomes problematic in a relationship, because maybe their partner is a little uninformed or unaware. So the pregnant woman is has high desire, and then the partner is kind of like, I don't want to hurt the baby or something's going on. So it creates issues from that perspective. Or I have people that it is completely the opposite, where they have zero desire, there they feel unwell, or the body image issues that it can trigger, because things are so rapidly changing, maybe they're vomiting all the time, and that's like, so not sexy. So it's all over the board, and I want to normalize that, that it's okay. And sometimes there's my clients that maybe they've had hormone issues before, but then they feel great in in pregnancy because their progesterone is higher, like they're feeling much better than they usually do, and they. Love being pregnant, so whatever it is, it's okay, and it's a point in time, and that's something that I really want people to know is like sex isn't this box that we check or this destination. It's fluid throughout our lives, and especially for women, we go through many changes, many stages, and when we're always trying to get back to the sex that we were having when we first met, we're really shrinking what's possible or what's going to feel good at different stages throughout our lives, because Pregnancy is a pregnancy, and postpartum is a big one. And so it was like perimenopause and menopause, where things are are changing, and if we just keep trying to have sex like we did when we met, or sex like in your 20s when you're 45 it's Yeah, so you're gonna lose that

Rebecca Gleed: 11:01

exactly, if there's, let's say, someone who's pregnant, who's used to having a pretty predictable sex life with their partner, and they enter pregnancy and it just plummets. What would be some different approaches? Like from my seat, one approach would be looking at, what are those thoughts? And if there are some thoughts we can really pull from of I don't recognize my body. I'm fatigued. Some of those thoughts that we can maybe restructure, reframe, would be one approach for you. Dr Wiggins, what are some approaches that you use when you hear someone say, it's plummeted, I want to act

Jordin Wiggins: 11:37

so I look at two things. I look at the individual to like the pregnant woman, and that's who I'm usually. Those are my clients or my patients. The pregnant woman and her relationship to desire turn on a lot of what I call pleasure beliefs. And Does she even know what turns her on, or is she sort of going with that script that we were all given with our dismal sexual health education, which is like penis and vagina makes a baby, and that's how they look at sex. But a lot of times during pregnancy, I find the underlying desire is connection, closeness, like doesn't even necessarily have to be penis and vagina. Sex, it's they do. They want a bath in a foot rub or, like silver Play, exactly, way more foreplay. But what? Yeah, like knowing what you desire and what you desire that turns you on, because we have been taught male centered sex and to focus on pleasing male partners, right? And that's why we have the orgasm gap and all that kind of stuff, right? Sex is for men, and if women like sex and their negative words, right? So that's why pregnancy is very interesting, like pregnancy and then also becoming a first time mom. And then how do you reconcile that identity of, okay, I'm a mother now, and how am I a mother that's sexual? Because our society really separates those things. So navigating, being able to navigate, like, what are my desires? What turns me on? What kind of touch feels most pleasurable? And that can if we're constantly, I'm having clients constantly search for pleasure, and that's in and out of the bedroom. But like different positions might be pleasurable when you're pregnant versus not, and if we're entering it, looking at how is sex pleasurable for both parties, and looking at it as an exploration, then it doesn't matter, right? Are we pregnant? Are we postpartum? Perimenopausal? Whatever it's it's fluid, and we're like, it's something that we work at together.

Rebecca Gleed: 14:33

Yeah, I love that. And if, if the audience pulls one message away today, at least from my seat, what I hear a lot is, I don't even know what brings me pleasure. And I think what you're saying is, be curious, be explorative, even by yourself or with your partner, if you're partnered, for birthing individuals to say, What? What does actually giving yourself a pause and permission to just. Explore.

Jordin Wiggins: 15:00

Do you have to do that pleasure research? It's necessary.

Rebecca Gleed: 15:04

Yes,

Jordin Wiggins: 15:04

it's cut. And I don't think that in that something that I'm giving women like their pleasure prescriptions, which it's but they almost need permission. And it's wild that we and again, you realize how male centered it all is. And I think that's why body image issues come up a lot more, even during pregnancy, because our touchstone for sex isn't does this feel good for me? It's how do I look? Am I pleasing my partner? All those things, our focus is external, when it should be on pleasure and internal, and there is give and take, right? But most I find anyway, and I've had 1000s of women over the years that they don't know what brings them pleasure, or what feels good, or how they like to be touched, and we really need to and then, and this is especially important in pregnancy and postpartum, and this is the part that my early work really missed, because it was focused on the individual, and that's how I was trained, right medically, to look at the individual, but we really have to look at the relationship system and how things are functioning there, because if we don't feel safe and the pleasure centers in our brain aren't turned On, then we're going to have desire issues and connection issues. So pregnancy and having a baby really changes that. It changes the dynamic in relationships so significantly. And then we have partners that if there was an imbalance in the relationship, and then now there's a baby, and now there's breastfeeding, and just the imbalances can be so much greater. And then women can feel very touched out their bodies aren't the same as they were prior to pregnancy. So there's all these things and all these shifts, and then you could have a partner that's just kind of waiting for the green light to have penis and vagina sex again, and the person that's given birth is like, hasn't caught up or hasn't had a minute to breathe and doesn't know what turns her on and how it's gonna is it gonna hurt, and I never recommend that you jump right back into penetrative sex, because really, when you're getting that green light from your OB at the six week appointment, it basically means, like, there's no tears, there's no risk of infection. We're doing like bare minimum, right? Your cervix is closed back up, like bare minimum green light. So

Rebecca Gleed: 18:15

I think we do such a disservice to women by having this green light. It's so dismissive of everything you're talking about when, sure there's no infection, sure there's no tearing, where it's not torn to the point where it's, yeah,

Jordin Wiggins: 18:32

exactly

Rebecca Gleed: 18:34

it's, you know, it's

Jordin Wiggins: 18:36

got a literal bare minimum, and it's male centered once again. And I'm constantly about pleasure centered, which is for pleasurable for both parties. And that's why, for women, I recommend, like, get a mirror. Look down there.

Rebecca Gleed: 18:57

Yeah,

Jordin Wiggins: 18:57

do some self pleasure. Touch yourself. How do things feel? Yourself have an orgasm, yourself to know what's good when it's just like green light, and then you're trying to have sex like before pregnancy your partners. That's the other thing from my experience, and what's been told to me is most people are the men are trying to have sex like they had before, right? So and getting really clear on your boundaries and your readiness, because sex isn't like an entitlement, which is what I find it's often treated as, and I find we're sort of lacking reverence for what the woman's body just did, like you just you created a whole person, right? You made bones and a brain in your body, and were just. Like, okay, now be a receptacle,

Rebecca Gleed: 20:03

yeah, not to mention birth trauma, some of that, let's say it was a traumatic birth, or maybe there is some pelvic floor trauma that needs to be treated for an extended period of time. But we have so much of like, you're talking about this conditioning and pressure, how in the world can we just return to penetrative sex that is male pressured or partnered pressured. That's a setup. That's a setup for disaster.

Jordin Wiggins: 20:30

And then if, because we know that sex isn't a tribe, it's a reward system. So if you're pushing yourself to have sex that is painful or have sex that is unwanted, then you're not going to want it, yeah, exactly. Then Then we get pelvic pain, then we get maybe vaginismus, like, Yeah, our literal pelvic floors are contracting, and then it becomes this push pull in a relationship, right? If the one partner feels entitled to sex, and then the other partner is like, Well, wait a second, my workload just like, 100x I don't have anything left in the tank at the end of the day, and I don't feel safe, I don't feel supported, I haven't dealt with the birth trauma, you know? Yeah, we do women and couples a massive, massive disservice by not educating them about that and just by teaching people that sex means penis and vagina, when that's not even how most women reliably orgasm

Rebecca Gleed: 21:42

Absolutely yeah. So if we're looking at it from a more pleasurable perspective, which I absolutely love, what are some things we can shed light to?

Jordin Wiggins: 21:52

Okay? Well, I think that every heterosexual couple needs to learn what pleasure centered sex is, and what we have been taught is male centered sex. So the and the more good sex you have, the more good sex you want. So if especially because I have women, and I do not like HS, like hypoactive sexual desire disorder, or they think they're asexual, and it's like no no before we accept this diagnosis, let's look at everything going on, right? Not because then she gets in a relationship with somebody that is supportive and she does feel safe, and he cares about her pleasure, and then she's insatiable, and that's at any age. Yeah, when we're when we're looking at pleasure. And I challenge men like, if your female partner is not fully desiring you, then what's something's going on here, right? Like, yeah, it's because I believe that women are inherently more sexual than men, and that's one of those negative beliefs that we've been given, like we have a clitoris, an organ, literally just for pleasure, our our orgasm potential is much greater than men, multi orgasmic potential, our refractary period is less like multiple orgasms for women. Should be the standard, in my opinion, and then tell me that we have a sexual dysfunction problem, but we have a lack of pleasure centered education problem. So I think that we do a terrible job in heterosexual relationships, and this goes for pregnancy, postpartum, anytime, in taking turns and exploring what's pleasurable. We just get in this checkbox, first we do this, and then we do this, and then we do this. When's the last time that you took time to just appreciate your partner's body or lie naked together focus on sensation, because that's really what sex is about, or what intimacy is about is being seen and feeling safe. But that's not what we're taught, right? We're taught like penis in vagina, friction equals orgasm, and it is just

Rebecca Gleed: 24:37

being seen.

Jordin Wiggins: 24:37

I want to my pelvic floor is contracting when I think about that's how the majority of people are having sex.

Rebecca Gleed: 24:47

So this can be expansive instead of constricted,

Jordin Wiggins: 24:51

yeah, and if in then we have because, again, we're conditioned for male centered pleasure. So we. Feel wrong, or we feel like we have broken versions of man's bodies when our bodies don't work the same. But it's like no our potential for pleasure is actually greater than a male's, and if we can lean into that and explore that, then the potential is endless. And why wouldn't we want to approach it like that? Because then it becomes this fun exploration, and people can try new things, and then you can keep that novelty element, because if we're ordering chocolate ice cream every single time for dessert, you're gonna get bored. Chocolate ice cream we need, right,

Rebecca Gleed: 25:54

right? Yeah,

Jordin Wiggins: 25:55

we need novelty. It's just how our our brains work as humans. So having things like, Okay, what does sex during pregnancy look like? And I like to call it intimacy, because we've just been so brainwashed to think that sex is penis and vagina. But what does intimacy during pregnancy look like? Physicians are pleasurable.

Rebecca Gleed: 26:17

Yeah, it's it's so taboo to talk about. Well, do you masturbate your of course, of course, women and birthing individuals masturbate when they're

Jordin Wiggins: 26:25

pregnant. Yeah, and sometimes they it's more than usual because their partner refuses to touch them, which is also like a lack of education, like there's, there's nothing, like in if we're talking late days here, right? Because when we talk about, like, hot sex, hot bath, like, ways to stimulate delivery, but like, you can't, you're not going to hurt the baby with your penis. There's a cervix there protecting it, so yes,

Rebecca Gleed: 27:01

I'm glad every

Jordin Wiggins: 27:01

pregnancy.

Rebecca Gleed: 27:03

Yeah, that's a common myth that I hear a lot is, well, I don't want to hurt the baby. It's going to cause problems. And also that that can be for men too. And for whatever reason, it can be a variety of factors. Sometimes the male partner will go outward, whether it be through pornography or increased masturbation or whatnot. What would you tell that couple that intimacy is important to them, right? But you find them distanced around intimacy when you're working with a couple like that? What? What might see?

Jordin Wiggins: 27:36

Yeah, and that happens a lot, right? And it's but that's a it's generally the male centering His pleasure and kind of like putting his fingers in his ears and like, la, la, la, like, I don't care about her. I don't care about her pleasure. This is about me and mine, and I'm not willing to unlearn any of the negative beliefs. It's like, period sex or you can't, nothing's gonna happen to anybody if you have sex during your period. Yeah. Great advice. If it's like, oh, this is gross or weird, or when we try to break it down and get to the root of the belief you usually it's fear based or not factual. So and then and porn brings up a whole other host of issues and questions, because then you know, if you're pregnant, your body's changing. We have all those negative beliefs and conditioning that we need to please our our man, or if he has to go somewhere else is porn cheating like it there. It's so layered and it's so nuanced, and this is where I think we really need to hold our boundaries and our agreements in relationship, because blaming women are like, Oh, well, you don't want to have sex so much, so I'm gonna go do What I want. Like that. It's not

Rebecca Gleed: 29:20

Yeah,

Jordin Wiggins: 29:21

fair, right. And I'm a fan of porn, ethical porn, female created porn, female directed porn. But it also, if there's a couple that it's they've agreed that that that's not something that's okay in their relationship.

Rebecca Gleed: 29:46

Yeah,

Jordin Wiggins: 29:47

exactly. It's a betrayal, and that needs to be addressed, and you shouldn't be gaslit that it's somehow your fault that,

Rebecca Gleed: 29:57

yeah,

Jordin Wiggins: 29:57

when that was an agreement that's been broken. In just because you're pregnant like

Rebecca Gleed: 30:03

so having some of these conversations and figuring out, what are the parameters, what are we consenting to? Can be a little dialog. And then I think what I'm hearing is, what your approach is, is not to get rid of pornography, it's if it's consensual, but to say, how do we bring more pleasure to the birthing individual to make it more enjoyable, and wanting more of that,

Jordin Wiggins: 30:25

right? Because what woman that that is feels relaxed, feels supported, feels cared for, feels tuned into, wouldn't open sexually. So

Rebecca Gleed: 30:44

and are you listening?

Jordin Wiggins: 30:47

I hope they are. That's I usually I my podcast. Get played to partners often because, because I'm blunt and I say the things that they don't feel safe, or something to say. So it's interesting, the reaction sometimes I get from the partner,

Rebecca Gleed: 31:09

what are you

Jordin Wiggins: 31:11

what are you getting back? Oh, well, it's funny, because sometimes they use abuse techniques like deny, attack, minimize. They'll criticize, like, one thing, oh, she's she sells. Her podcast is about sales. Like, yes sir, I run a business. Do you work for free? So it's, are they just attempt to discredit me, or ask for research, or just ways to perpetuate like, the patriarchy and female over functioning. And oftentimes it's like, it's just the response of like, your reaction right now is exactly why your wife doesn't want to Sir,

Rebecca Gleed: 32:03

I was just gonna say it just reinforces this dance that you're already in and this power dynamic that is not working for you.

Jordin Wiggins: 32:10

Yeah, and it's since so clinically, I researched a ton of course of control, which is about power dynamics and abuse, and I've realized, and I was not taught this in school, and I didn't even realize until my own abusive relationship, right? And you're going to therapists, you're looking for help, and it's not seen and it's not picked up on in generally, as the over functioning partner, you're blamed right? When it's really it's not your issue at all. You're being abused, being coercively controlled, but it's not the violent incident model, so it's not being seen, and then pregnancy and postpartum. It's exacerbated. Those power dynamics are exacerbated. So I did the clinical like a ton of course of control certifications and education, and then looking into BDSM and power dynamics. So, so it's so fascinating, because that is such a great way, and it's a lot of the ways that I I teach my clients those principles to apply to their own relationship, because it's power dynamics, but it is consensual, and they have the conversations that no one in heterosexual relationships is taught to have, And it's like, what's your Yes, what's your No, right? So in heterosexual relationships, I say it's like we're just going along with contracts we saw like we didn't know we signed these invisible contracts that were held to these standards, these gender roles. But in BDSM, or in DOM sub dynamics, which can be very erotic and interesting and fun, but it's all it's consensual, and when it's all up front and it's a fascinating way to teach heterosexual couples, or couples like that aren't in the kink community at all those principles so they can apply them to their own relationship, and then suddenly sex gets a hell of a lot more fun, and you're doing it a lot more

Rebecca Gleed: 34:40

Yeah, and I want to if you can give the definition for an audience member who may not know what BDSM is. But first, I just want to quickly highlight that there's an aspect of pregnancy that can bring physical vulnerability, and so just to name like in and of itself, there can be just a power. And I'm even in a egalitarian, equal sharing power couple, in my clinical opinion as a therapist. But I'm so glad we're going there to just acknowledge there may be just a natural shift, just in the scenario of pregnancy or postpartum.

Jordin Wiggins: 35:14

Yes, I'm so glad that you brought that up, because that's often times when abuse starts or escalates, and it is It's shocking. It used to be shocking. It's almost not anymore. But that a time that we think is so magical and connecting and should be celebrated is often times when we actually start to see the signs of abuse and course of control. And that's another thing that I'm talking to clinicians, and it's like a grassroots effort at this point, because it's one on one, but we're not screened for even though we logically know, but we're not screened at our OB appointments or our postpartum checkups for this, and I think that there is so much shame for women, and that's when the abuse started in my relationship, when I after I had my baby, yeah? And often I know, and then we blame ourselves, and then, and then I'm thinking, like, Oh, it must be me. Like, I'm not sleeping, I'm postpartum. My hormones are all over the place, like, oh,

Rebecca Gleed: 36:37

just slippery slope. Yeah,

Jordin Wiggins: 36:39

it's, it's got to be me, you're blaming yourself, that kind of thing, when really any of those points right after marriage, after pregnancy or delivery, then we think we're supposed to have this partner in this happily Ever After. But that's really when the power, that control comes out, and it's millions of women, and we feel like it's our fault.

Rebecca Gleed: 37:12

Yeah, tell our audience a little bit more about BDSM and how that creates this framework for consent, whether you're going to adopt this or not. Regardless, these conversations can be so helpful to define, okay, what are the parameters we're both consenting to?

Jordin Wiggins: 37:28

Yeah, okay, and so I'll be Thank you, because when you're so immersed in something, you don't feel like, like, the terms just come out. So BDSM is an umbrella term. So it's like BDSM and Tink community is kind of what people talk about, but BDSM stands for bondage, discipline, dominance, submission, sadism and masochism. It's like an umbrella term used for the kink community, and I personally, like my clients, benefit most from learning about dominance and submission, and it's like it's power and control and when it's consensual and when it's or hot and erotic, and when it is totally not for you. So I think, I mean, I'm glad for 50 Shades of Gray, because it made,

Rebecca Gleed: 38:31

you

Jordin Wiggins: 38:31

know, BDSM sort of a more mainstream thing, but it didn't do a great job in the sense that there was consent issues, for sure, in that whole series, and it makes it about pain, and that's not necessary or inflicting pain, and that's not necessarily What kink is about. So in King versus fetish, just for me to take this because it's like, we think of the extremes, and then we get scared. So people think, oh, like leather and whips and dungeons and pain and then, but really it's like, no, we need to learn the principles. Or, like, how you how do you get there? Because or what turns me on and off, what's my yes or no? Like, all these principles are not scary dungeon things so and kink is something that it's not considered a standard turn on. And I'm, I'm like summarizing and like a but a fetish is something that you would require to get off or be aroused by. So, like, if a foot fetish, I'll say that, because it's commonly known, it's. Like that, that person that has a true fetish cannot get off unless there's feet involved. Yeah, it's like, required. And then a kink is more like, maybe you like feet or it's a part of your arousal, but it's not like the whole

Rebecca Gleed: 40:18

thing differentiating,

Jordin Wiggins: 40:20

yeah. And then so kink play, I never I didn't think we'd be talking about this today, but I guess here we are. Here we are. So okay, but a fetish could be pregnant women,

Rebecca Gleed: 40:32

sure,

Jordin Wiggins: 40:33

like somebody could only want to have sex with pregnant women. That would be a fetish. And a kink would be like, they find it arousing to have sex with a pregnant woman, but it's not the only way that they get off. And then, when we're talking about kink, it can be fun in certain like, certain elements, so say, like a blindfold or spanking. It's really about sensation and exploring sensation, and sometimes, especially, say my clients that are neurodivergent by taking away a sense, like putting on a blindfold, so you're taking away sight, then it can make other senses more heightened. And so when we're looking at this, when the way that I teach it, I think is more mainstream and not scary that we're I'm looking at it from a temperature play. Or is there, yeah, it's, it's like an it's pleasure research and it's exploration, yeah, or a lot of my clients are very high achieving women, right? They're generally successful multiple degrees. They run corporations, and then they have a praise kink, but they didn't know that. They didn't even know what a praise kink is. And like, kink is scary, but like, they like being told they're doing a good job, or they're beautiful, or would like because, again, we're high achieving, because we've had these issues of when we received love in childhood, and we could geek out on that whole thing, but then it actually becomes very arousing in in adult life. So then, if they're if they know, they have a praise pink, and then their partner can, like, play into that. Then it's this, it can be this fun thing that they share together, and it doesn't have to be dirty or wrong or bad, right? It's just like, it turns them on.

Rebecca Gleed: 42:57

Thank you so much for coming on the show. This is Dr Wiggins, where can folks find you?

Jordin Wiggins: 43:03

They can find me at the pleasure collective.com, and my podcast, the pleasure principles podcast, is a great place if you want to hear more.

Rebecca Gleed: 43:15

And where can folks find the pink Canary?

Jordin Wiggins: 43:18

Amazon, any retailer.

Rebecca Gleed: 43:22

Awesome. I look forward to sharing that. Thank you for coming on. Please check Dr Wiggins out for part two in the postpartum episode. Thanks for coming on.

Jordin Wiggins: 43:32

Thank you for having me.

Unknown: 43:37

If you would like to learn more about how we can help. Visit our website at perinatal reproductive wellness.com, and while you are there, check out the latest edition of our book, employed motherhood. We also invite you to follow us on social media at employed motherhood. Finally, if you enjoyed listening to the show, please subscribe and rate it. Thank you. You.