Use Your Chakras To Thrive - Mind, Body & Spirit | Mary Sanders

FOR EPISODE LINKS & MORE INFO VISIT: https://samhorton.co/blog/ep50

Sam Horton welcomes the wise and radiant Dr. Mary Sanders—medical intuitive, energy healer, and holistic health advocate—for a conversation that dives deep into the energetics of healing, creativity, and personal empowerment.

Mary shares her powerful personal journey from navigating early hearing impairment to finding her soul's calling in chiropractic care, meditation, and energy medicine. Together, Sam and Mary explore how our chakra system reflects and influences the mind, body, and spirit—and how we can use spiritual tools to live more joyfully, healthfully, and creatively.

If you've ever felt disconnected, burned out, or unsure of your purpose, this episode offers beautiful insight and practical tools for grounding, aligning, and coming home to your true self.

✨ Key Takeaways:

• How Mary’s early sensory challenges awakened her intuition and shaped her path as a healer.
• The chakra system as an energetic blueprint and how it interfaces with our physical, emotional, and spiritual health.
• Root chakra themes of safety, purpose, and belonging—and how imbalance can show up in the body.
• The relationship between trauma, energy blockages, and physical symptoms.
• Three powerful practices to begin realigning your energy: grounding with Earth’s frequency, energetic boundary setting, and present-moment awareness.
• How creativity lives in the second (sacral) chakra—and is deeply tied to authentic expression and desire.
• The surprising connection between the sacral and throat chakras in expressing your truth.
• Ways to start recognizing when your chakras are out of balance—and how to realign them using meditation and visualization.
• Mary’s own creative practices and robust self-care rituals for sustaining health and happiness.
• Why honoring your desires is a radical and essential act of healing.

FOR EPISODE LINKS & MORE INFO VISIT: https://samhorton.co/blog/ep50

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introducing Dr. Mary Sanders
• 1:29 Mary's journey towards spirituality & energy medicine
• 8:02 Mary's connection to using Chakras for healing and thriving
• 10:56 Accepting your path and purpose
• 12:10 Understanding the body's role in working with energy and chakras
• 15:50 What happens before you experience physical dis-ease?
• 18:22 Mary's top 3 ways to look after you chakra energy system
• 22:19 Using your signature life force energy to support your chakras
• 24:06 Links between creativity and the chakras
• 27:00 Mary's creative connection
• 28:07 Mary's personal self care practices
• 30:30 Mary's powerful question for you to ponder for more health and happiness
• 31:07 Connect with Dr. Mary Sanders

Transcript

Ep. 50 Soul-led Creative Women
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Sam Horton: [00:00:00] So today I have Mary Sanders with me. Dr. Mary is committed to supporting women who want to transform the way they show up in the world and experience thriving health, happiness, and purpose, utilizing the tools of energy medicine, spiritual embodiment, and meditation. So, welcome, Mary.

Mary Sanders: Oh, thank you so much, Sam. Sincerely, it is my honor to be with you and all the listeners out there. So thank you for spending time with us. 

Sam Horton: So just to, give everyone I an idea about what we're gonna be talking about today. so we are going to be talking about understanding the chakra system and how it impacts the mind, body, and spirit.

So, first. Of all, you know, why don't we just start with your journey, you know, tell us about how you got started in spiritual and energy medicine and the work that you're doing today 

Mary Sanders: hmm, I, Sam, I love starting with this question. for the, for the very reason that I get to say, I [00:01:00] knew at the age of three that I was destined to have my hands on people.

I. Full transparency listeners, I am hearing impaired. My normal hearing capacity is 50% as to what the normal hearing person hears, and so I went undiagnosed until the age of three and I didn't get my first hearing aid until the age of six, so obviously one of my traditional five senses was compromised.

So how I got to view the world was through the lens of extra sensory perception. So I believe that if you have a physical challenge, then you have the ability to access more information provided that you're within an expanded state. And I think that's true for every single listener out there. As I share my journey, please know and trust that you have just as much intuition as I do or as what Sam has.

We all have access to this information. I'm just saying that my disability kind of forced me into the position to trust, to learn to know more [00:02:00] about. The additional senses above and beyond the five senses. So I came into this world feeling, I was feeling everybody else's energy, everybody else's emotions.

And that's how I was processing information because I was, I was not getting information via words. I didn't know that word had a language or a meaning, but I definitely could feel what other people were feeling. So as time went on, I kind of desensitized my gifts. I was raised in a very conventional Catholic upbringing family.

I was the youngest of three girls. And, my parents decided to mainstream me as far as my education, even though I had a hearing impairment. So I was just treated like every other kid. So I still had to receive the information to the best of my ability. I had to depend on other sources. So as time passed, I ended up going to undergraduate school for chemistry and zoology.

I excelled academically. Don't ask me [00:03:00] how, I think it was just pure, pure resilience and perseverance and stick to itness and, and that allowed me to be able to excel academically. And so I got some of the hardcore sciences out of the way, but I never ever. Forgot that at the age of three, I knew intuitively that I had to have my hands on people on bodies specifically, like that was my purpose.

And there aren't many people that can say, I knew what my purpose was at three years old, and I don't want people to feel poorly if you are still searching for your purpose, because I've definitely been on that journey where I've questioned what my purpose was in life. But at that time I went into chiropractic school and finally I was in, you know, I was amongst my tribe.

They were talking about the human's ability, the body's ability to heal from above down inside out. So I opened up a business. when I graduated, I was 25 years old, started a business, and through the school of hard knocks, I had some successes and some wins, and I had some frustrations and [00:04:00] some challenges along the way.

But again, I was just really kind of, Invested. I really needed to prove to myself and to the world that I could be mainstreamed on some level and accepted and successful, that I kind of pushed my way into success. Mm-hmm. And as I did that, I went through in a, in a very extreme burnout. Mm-hmm. my adrenal system, uh, flatlined and I literally, I was not myself.

so to make a long story short, I sold my practices after practicing for over 24 years. Uh, sold our home, sold our our possessions, and we uprooted and moved to Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam. And so when I lived there, I went through a huge identity crisis. I didn't know who I was, if I was not Dr. Mary with the brick and mortar.

Place for patients to come and see me. And I really, I questioned what's my purpose? Why am I here? What am I still doing here? What's going on? I need some signs, right? So, and those of you listening who [00:05:00] are from Australia, this may not sound like such a big deal, but I ran away from a Ho Chi Minh and I went to Bali, Indonesia to finish up my yoga teacher's training certification.

Now by then, I had been practicing yoga for probably about. 27 years. So I've been on my mat consistently year after year, just trying to land within my physical body. Something really miraculous happened, Sam. I started to fall in love with meditation when I was deepening my understanding of yoga. I mean, I, who would've funk, right?

So, I came back, I left Bali, came back to Ho Chi Minh City, and I had time for the first time in my life to really sit. In silence, in meditation, and to really lean into the magic of what happens when you meditate. So curiosity got the best of me. And I'm like, okay, so what's happening neurologically within the brain when you meditate?

I really need to understand this in order to lean into [00:06:00] it more. So I went and I studied underneath Dr. Albin Shahar. And uh, he was at the time, uh, you know, the happiness guy, you know, he was teaching positive psychology in the neuroscience of meditation. So I got the information that I needed to better understand and to allow me to think into my, my meditation practice.

And then as fate has it a couple of years past and as life happened, I had a couple of major deaths in my life and it led me to attending the Academy of Intuition Medicine. Uh, in Sausalito, California. So we left Ho Chi, min City, Vietnam and moved to Bogota, Columbia. And then that's when I started my training at the Academy.

And so, Sam, for the first time in my life, I was giving myself permission to open up. The experiences, the intuition that I received as a young person to better understand how I can apply that to healing for myself and for others. Mm-hmm. And so now [00:07:00] today as I live in Boulder, Colorado, I show up in the capacity asba intuitive.

So I, I gather all of my strengths and all the various different skills, and I helps people support them on their spiritual journey as well. 

Sam Horton: Mm. Beautiful. And so leaning in a bit to, you know, our conversation today, you know, around the chakras, you know, can you give us an overview of how the chakras feed into your own journey and you know a bit about what they're about?

Mary Sanders: Absolutely. And, I know that, that my story will speak. To a lot of the listeners here. Mm-hmm. Okay. before I start, I just wanna say listeners, as I share my story, please know and trust that I'm coming from a lens of a belief system that we as humans, okay. are. Nothing but electromagnetic frequencies, and we are part of electromagnetic frequency that surround us, so there has to be some kind of a distortion.

In order for dis-ease to occur, there has to be [00:08:00] a distortion that happens within the environment. The energy starts first, and then it percolates through the bio field that surrounds our physical body and then enters into the physical body via a chakra system. Now a chakra is not new agey. This has been around for God knows how many years, from the beic sciences they've been using.

Chakra is just a, a Sanskrit word for wheel, or vortex, if you will. And so these energy centers. I have three primary focuses. They receive information from the environment, they assimilate that information and then laughed. But not least, they express our life force energy back out into the world. So as I was going through my own healing journey, there are certain themes that kept coming up, like, what's my purpose?

Seriously, what is my purpose? What am I intended to be doing, and, and how did [00:09:00] that align with my greatest desires? And so right there. purpose and desires starts talking about the root chakra and the sacral chakra, which are the first and the second energy centers located deep within the pelvis. Now, listeners, I don't know how many of you have ever really been asked, to like, you know, what is what, what is your secret desire in this world?

Like, what is it that you've come to do? I mean, that's, that takes a lot of reflection and contemplation to be able to say, oh, I'm here to teach. I'm here to hold space for transformation, and I'm here to help create cellular change. Those three things I know within the trillions of my physical body, the cells within my physical body, I know that to be my truth.

And so my desire is to hold space for that. So now I didn't just wake up and one day have this realization, Sam, it took me time. It took repetition, [00:10:00] meditation, spiritual reflection. It took, it took lots of time for me to get to where I am. 

Sam Horton: Do do you think part of that time period, you know, from, 'cause I think, you know, you sort of described that you had a bit of a, an inkling or a knowing for it quite early in life, you know, do you think that part of that is actually in accepting it?

Mary Sanders: I do because society, I mean, if you think about how many different ways we are conditioned, we have to live up to other people's expectations and what their desires are. And sometimes we prioritize that more than what we want. Hmm. Especially the women. And so consequently, to really kind of dive into that, I was like, oh, holy cow.

You mean I'm allowed to have desires? I'm allowed to have wants and needs and put myself first. 

Sam Horton: Hmm. 

Mary Sanders: Yeah. 

Sam Horton: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So in terms of like the physical body, then, can you, talk a bit, you [00:11:00] did sort of touch on it briefly before, but can you talk about how the information or, you know, the chakra, uh, energy centers are really linked to our physical body and what we experience, you know, in our physical body?

Mary Sanders: Yeah, I'm gonna stick with the theme of talking about the first energy center. Okay. So, I'm gonna talk about overarching themes and then we'll talk about the associated endocrine gland. And an endocrine gland is just a fancy word for, it's a gland that produces hormones. So we have seven major endocrine glands within our body and that they correspond to an energy center.

And so from there we'll talk about the emotional, uh, correspond, excuse me, correspondence and life themes that show up. 

Sam Horton: Mm-hmm. 

Mary Sanders: So the first energy center is all about safety, survival, trust. Purpose, financial security, abundance, [00:12:00] knowing where you fit within the tribe, your placement within the family, like how you show up in the world.

And so that's the first energy center located deep within the pelvic bowl. So there are nerves specifically that connect from the sacrum, the broad triangular bone at the base of your spine, and those nerves that exit out of that. And some of the low back too control the organ. Okay. The organs such as, The, the rectum, the lower descending colon, the bladder, uh, the, anything that controls the butt, thighs, knees, ankles, and feet. So if somebody comes to me and they say, Hey, Mary, I've got feet issues. I'm gonna think, okay, well that's related to the first energy center. If somebody comes to me and they have like a blood disorder I'm going, or an iron deficiency, I'm going to think that it comes from the first [00:13:00] energy center.

Okay? So the physical body is related to the energy system via the nerves. Now there's also, as I said, an endocrine gland that's associated, and that in the space of the first energy center is the adrenal system. And so the adrenals just sit on top of the kidneys. They are little, hormone or they, they produce listeners.

I, you know, again, these are Tencent. Medical terms, but I think some of you will relate to it. You know what adrenaline is? you know what DHEA or cortisol does? Those hormones are secreted by the adrenal system. So if your first energy center is compromised in any way, shape or form, whether it's in excess or in deficiency, it will alter the hormonal production.

Now when hormones are produced by the endocrine system, they get picked up. They get picked up by the circulatory system, and then they [00:14:00] go through the body and they get, eventually go up to the brain, and then the brain starts creating neural peptides or emotional responses. And so then we get conditioned or addicted to the emotional response that is associated with the excess or the deficiency in the energy system.

So it's so beautifully interconnectedly. Just divinely orchestrated how this all comes together, and it's very much from an integrative, from a very integrative and holistic viewpoint. 

Sam Horton: Mm-hmm. Do you agree that, physical symptoms kind of, you know, are, are sort of the last port of call in terms of the fact that we often get signs, you know, much earlier than physical symptoms manifest?

Can you talk a little bit to that? 

Mary Sanders: Yeah, I. I can, and I really appreciate you asking that question because it, it stays in alignment with the [00:15:00] first comment that I made and that the energy starts first, and then the physi, the physiology or the body responds second. So if somebody is raised in an environment where there's a tremendous amount of instability, let's say that you move.

Five times during your childhood or your ra, your parents got divorced or there was financial scarcity because it was only a single income home, or that you didn't have the safety, that maybe there was some trauma that you experienced, whether it be a big T trauma or a small T trauma. I believe that those life experiences set you up.

If you will set you up for some discordance and your body, and this is just simply miraculous to me. It will send you signals and then it's your job to pay attention to the signals and then if you choose to, which we all do, and I did. I ignored the signals for as long as I could until the [00:16:00] signals became a hard stop.

For my body. And then I'm like, okay, time out. Time out. I'm listening. You have my attention. Yeah. So unfortunately that's kind of how it works for the majority of people. Yeah. Myself included. And 

Sam Horton: it, and it's sort of like, you know, it might just be a little whisper, you know, something, and then it becomes more of a, an intellectual idea, you know, where you start to really put thought to it and then it becomes emotionally kind of.

volatile for you. and then, you know, it's, then the physical symptoms start to show up, right? So that's how I like to explain it. That's, that's 

Mary Sanders: the best. Yeah. No, that's the best explanation that I've heard yet, Sam. Well done, well done. 

Sam Horton: So how do we know then that our shark was out of balance, you know, and, and what can we do about it?

So how do we use the information to our benefit? Okay. 

Mary Sanders: Valid. Absolutely a valid question. And you just described the process and so you, you will get the signals that something is not right, that there is some [00:17:00] discordant that's happening. And so the trick is, is to lean into that, and that's very counterintuitive.

Very, very counterintuitive. So the three things that I've seen historically over time, Sam, is that I've held space as a medical intuitive. There are three things that I consistently see happening or that I do first. And the first thing is, is that I teach people how to connect with the frequency of Mother Earth.

There is a frequency that is readily available to us in an infinite supply of it. Mm-hmm. And it is specifically designed to nurture, to love to care, to support our very needs. And so to, to ground down, slow down, and to connect with the earth's frequency, and then to learn how to saturate with that slow, rhythmic nutrient dense energy is hugely.

[00:18:00] Hugely healing. Mm-hmm. So that's one of the first things that I teach people how to do, is to ground and to saturate so that they can cleanse and charge their energy system. Mm. The second thing that I teach people to do is to a process what I call detached alignment. And it's nothing other than learn what energy you're carrying.

Is it yours? Or someone else's. Mm. And if it's somebody else's, let's kind of gift that energy back to them so that they can have their own journey and that we can be a little bit more clear about what our own journey is. Mm-hmm. So. I teach people the meditation of how to neutrally separate from other peoples, the energy.

And then last but not least, and I think a lot of the listeners will understand what I'm saying and that, most of us are either wired to be anxious individuals where we're fearful of, of the unknown of what's to [00:19:00] come. And then the other part of us, and we may have vacillate between the two, but the other part are depressive tendencies where we're so focused on what happened in the past.

Mm-hmm. That, you know, we just kind of relive those memories within the, the physiology of our body. Mm-hmm. So, I teach people how to shift their awareness within an energy center so that they can regulate their timing clock to be more present. Present time, consciousness in the here and the now. And so those three things are probably the most effective tools to begin your healing journey.

So when you're like, Hey, time out, something's not right. I, I don't know exactly what's not right, but something's not right, then that's when I say, okay, let's do it. Let's ground. Separate your energy from all the, the environmental influences and let's get you grounded in present time. 

Sam Horton: Mm. And is meditation a huge part of that present?

Uh, [00:20:00] yeah. Yeah. I do 

Mary Sanders: all three of those techniques via a guided meditation. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. Okay. 

Mary Sanders: So. And Sam, this is something that the listeners need to know, and that is energy follows thought. Mm-hmm. Thoughts and Intentions. Mm-hmm. So the more beautiful, creative, the, the more creative you are in your visualization, the more impactful you are at guiding your energy.

Sam Horton: And 

Mary Sanders: so the guided imagery that I use is, really designed to open up your own creativity so that you can get that felt sense of what it feels like to only be contained within your own energy or to be grounded and bounded into Mother Earth. So it's, it's, the more creative you are, the, the faster the process and the more saturated you'll become.

Sam Horton: Yeah, yeah. Well, it's, you know, I quite, often sort of think about some of these tools, as you know, it's a con, an opportunity to have a conversation with your soul, right? So, you're not gonna find the answers in your busy brain. You've gotta [00:21:00] quiet the noise to be able to hear yourself properly and what your soul really wants you to do next, I guess.

So. How do we stay more in tune with our, chakras then and utilize them more to thrive? So how can we keep them in balance, you know, when they, when they are in balance, you know, what, what, what tools can we use for that? 

Mary Sanders: There's a specific energy system that, that I like to support people with, and that's a, your life force energy, that personal vivifying signature that when you walk into the room, everybody says, Hey, Sam is here.

And it's not like an ego-based energy. It's your signature. And so I invite everybody listening to get in tune with your signature, own it, be be uniquely you, and then be completely full of you. So be full of self, not necessarily full in an egoic way, but full of your energy system so [00:22:00] that you can be felt and so that you can be heard and seen with strong boundaries.

I. 

Sam Horton: Mm. So this is really about, you know, standing in your personal truth, you know, and really owning that. and finding a way to hold your shape, you know, even if there's external stuff happening around you. staying true to yourself. 

Mary Sanders: Absolutely. We can't see this invisible, invisible electromagnetic frequency surrounding us, but yes, indeed, Sam, it has shape.

Mm-hmm. And so when you say hold your shape, that's literal. Mm-hmm. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. Well, you can feel it too, right When you are, when you are, when you are not being true to yourself because of the pressures externally, you can kind of feel yourself sort of almost folding or crumpling or you can feel it. So, yeah, pretty powerful.

So tell us then about the links between creativity and the chakras. 

Mary Sanders: I love this question. We [00:23:00] tapped upon this just a few minutes. I see when I look at Holographically, when I look at energy systems, I, they don't just show up as a single energy center. Mm-hmm. So I see them coupled or paired or tripled with other energy centers to create a theme.

And I often see, My practice is primarily women at this stage of the game. I do see men too. I love men, and they are very unique men that I, that gravitate towards my practice. Mm-hmm. However, because as women we are so conditioned to hold on and to support others and carry their emotional grievances, oftentimes that impacts our second energy center located just below the belly button.

And this. Center is the center for creativity. Obviously it relates to the ovaries, the reproductive system. So that's your ability to create another life. Yeah. But it's deeply rooted to creativity and so, and coupled [00:24:00] with that is your connection to your deepest desires. So I oftentimes Sam will see that that energy center, the one located below the belly button, is coupled and paired with the energy center in your throat.

Mm-hmm. And so most people will say, yeah, that's your voice. And I say, yes it is, but it's deeper than that. That's your ability to opt. Authentically express your deepest desires. And I know that your listeners are beautifully creative and come from an artistic background. I don't care if it's, if you're artistic with words or with paints or acrylics or pastels, or if you're, if you're artistic with music or dance or poetry, it's all the same.

It's the energy behind that authentic express, uh, expression and willing, willing to be seen as. That shape, that defined un. 

Sam Horton: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. As uniquely you. 

Mary Sanders: Oh goodness. [00:25:00] I don't want, yeah. Everybody should be that single beautiful vivifying signature that they are, that they're intended to be. 

Sam Horton: Hmm. So how, you know, from the perspective then of energy medicine and chakra system, how important do you think it is for us to make space for the creativity in our hearts?

Mary Sanders: I think it would be a shame if you didn't create that space. I think that the universe would be sorry that you didn't step into that. I think that there would be a void. 

Sam Horton: Hmm. 

Mary Sanders: It makes me sad to think that somebody would, would not want to, uh, connect into that space within their heart for self-love, compassion for themselves and others.

Sam Horton: Mm-hmm. And so how does creativity show up in your own life? You know, how important has it been part, part of your empowerment story? 

Mary Sanders: Oh, it's a huge part. so my [00:26:00] creativity shows up in my voice. My voice is a vehicle for holding space for my passion, my ability to be able to educate others. Mm-hmm. I'm just a normal.

56-year-old lady who's lived life and who happened to have a science background. And so my creativity is finding ways to express the ways that people can utilize the tools of energy medicine in practical ways. Mm-hmm. And so my voice is that vehicle. So that's my creativity and some of my thoughts and my belief systems are pretty out there.

And, however, they're becoming more mainstream the longer I live. So, I'm excited about that as well. But I'm very creative. I'm very passionate, I'm very articulate and I'm pretty loud. 

Sam Horton: That's a good way to be. So how do you take care of yourself? You know, what's your, what does your personal self care, routine [00:27:00] look like?

Tell us how you look after yourself. 

Mary Sanders: Yeah. Well, I'm very committed to it, uh, because after I went through burnout, my physical body is like, I have so much gratitude and appreciation for all the miraculous things that my body allows me to do. I. It just never ceases to amaze me. The human body never ceases to amaze me.

It can heal from the inside out. So I am very committed. And Sam, I don't know, you know, on the physical level, I, I lift weights. Mm-hmm. I do yoga, I swim cycle. I do a plethora of sports, including pickleball, tennis. Those are things that I do on the physical level. Mm-hmm. On the spiritual level, I'm committed to a daily meditation practice.

Mm-hmm. And in that practice, I do work my energy centers. I cleanse and charge my chakra system. 

Sam Horton: Mm-hmm. I 

Mary Sanders: run my life force synergy. And then I run Kundalini [00:28:00] with the anticipation that I'm going to expand out into the quantum field. Mm-hmm. So I do versioning exercises where I align, align with the ideal version of self.

I do this quite frequently, and so I use sound as if I as a vibration to help carry that frequency. 

Sam Horton: Mm-hmm. 

Mary Sanders: Chemically, I do a lot of nutraceuticals. I support my system by staying hydrated, knowing that, you know, from a quantum, biological level, you know, water, structured water is what carries the co-factors in and out of the cell.

Sam Horton: Mm-hmm. 

Mary Sanders: I do traditional psychotherapy. I do somatic work. I'm just all in all, Sam, I I'm on. It sounds like I've got a lot to, I'm, yeah. I'm on journey. I've gotta step, step up a bit. I think I'm on the journey, so, you know, I kind of hesitate sharing that with everybody all. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. No, that's great. I mean, this is the, this is, it's a big commitment, right?

And I think that sometimes these things become like not part of a to-do [00:29:00] list, but they become second nature, right? You kind of, you're hungry for them. That's what it sounds like to me as you're explaining those. 

Mary Sanders: It's, it's not, it's not. It's, it's who I am. 

Sam Horton: Yeah. Yeah. I get it. It's, 

Mary Sanders: yeah, it's, it, it, it's not like, it's not, it's not an option.

Sam Horton: No, I get it. So for all the women out there who wanna find more health and more happiness in their lives, what powerful questions would you have them ask themselves today? 

Mary Sanders: Hmm. I would sit with those deep pondering questions as to what are my greatest desires. I keep coming back to that, Sam, but if you can answer that listeners, if you can truly answer that for yourself, then you're on the journey.

Sam Horton: Yeah, yeah. Very, very powerful. You're right, you said at the very beginning, how often do we ask ourselves those sorts of questions. So yeah, it's probably a great place to start. So how can people get to know you better, Mary, and get a real feel for the work that you're doing? 

Mary Sanders: Oh, [00:30:00] you know, the first invitation I'll put out there, please take, take a listen to if you're interested in anything that aligns in mind, body, and spirit, please take a listen to my podcast.

Energy Medicine. I have so much fun doing interviews with other credential practitioner. The, and also I do solo cast because I really am committed to the educational piece. Mm-hmm. So that's, that's one way. And then the second way, Sam, is my. Website is a breathing organism. So it literally keeps you informed as to what I'm up to, what classes, what retreats, uh, what my one-on-one offerings, what group classes I have coming.

So that's probably the best place to land if you just wanna like read more about me or to to know what I'm up to. 

Sam Horton: Excellent. We'll include all of the links for those in the show notes. 

Thank you so much for chatting with me today, Mary. I really enjoyed our conversation. Thank you. 

Mary Sanders: Likewise. I appreciate you, Sam, for all that you're holding [00:31:00] space for and, and for women and aligning their purpose with their expression and creativity and being from a heartfelt place.

So thank you for being here. Thanks, Mary.