Ep 99. Jennie Lee
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So today I have Jenny Lee with me. Jennie is an award-winning author, certified yoga therapist, and conscious creativity coach who has counseled private clients for over 26 years. Her spiritual focus and pragmatic tools help people reconnect to their soul's wisdom for joyful self-expression. Jenny also hosts.
Yearly international retreats and is the founder and director of the Essere writer and artist residence in Italy. So welcome, Jennie. Thank you, Sam. It was a pleasure to meet you and uh, sounds like we are very aligned in the scope of our work, so looking forward to our conversation. Yeah. Great. So let's just start with your story.
You know, tell us about your journey and what's led you here today. Talking to me about creativity and spirituality. Oh my goodness. Well, the journey has been long. Um, I have spent many years, approximately 26 years, uh, doing [00:01:00] personal coaching in the realm of yoga therapy and with a very spiritual focus.
So yoga therapy is. Broad field and some people focus more on the physical. I have always focused more on the psychospiritual. Mm-hmm. And, and of people's experience. And so then that led me into writing three books on the topic of. Spiritual self-development and the yoga philosophies around that. And, um, which then led me to creating, um, a writer's and artist residency program.
Mm-hmm. Which is my current focus, uh, as well as the coaching work that I continue to do. But, um, I really love supporting people in their evolution through their personal expression of. Their spiritual essence via [00:02:00] cre, their creative pro practice or process. Mm-hmm. So, I mean, it's a beautiful intersection, right?
Where spiritual wisdom, you know, meets creative expansion. So tell us about, a bit about your thoughts on that intersection. You know, what, what does it mean to you? Yeah, it's, I mean, it means everything to me really, because I believe that we. Have incarnated to, to express something very unique in particular as souls.
And that each soul has gifts, a gift, a many gifts, um, that we are here to, to offer in service to the world. Um, and that often comes through our creative process. Mm-hmm. Sometimes it, you know, it comes in other ways as well. But as artists, as writers, as creators of any sort, the more that we [00:03:00] can tap into that higher wisdom of intuition, soul wisdom, the more our work is informed, I think at the highest level possible.
Mm-hmm. And we, it's where we. Have the satisfaction of doing what is most fulfilling to us. Mm-hmm. And most serviceable to the world at the same time. Um, to me that's really the, the most important thing of bringing the spiritual and the creative together is that it really becomes that dharmic. Path.
Mm-hmm. Uh, that we step onto that is, like I said, it's the most fulfilling place for us and it's the most serviceful for the world. Mm. And when we can hit that sweet spot Mm. Um, it's just pure joy. Right? So. Great. Yeah. 'cause they do feed each other, right? So as we grow, our creative practices [00:04:00] grow and vice versa.
So I think it's really beautiful. I love that. So, I mean, creativity can mean many things to people, right? It can mean consciously creating a life with more purpose. Meaning and fulfillment as you sort of alluded to there, um, at one end. And then it obviously also means that practical hands-on creative expression, you know, our, um, creative practices that we actually physically do, like writing or art making, um, et cetera.
So do you believe that, um, both of those feed each other and can we have one without the other? You know, can we create a life that we love if we are not creating physically with our hands or, you know, our bodies. Well, I think people create in all different ways, and I believe that everyone is creative and it's really a matter of finding the expressions that are most meaningful to us.
And so to answer your question, I would say no. It would be hard to have the, the most meaningful and fulfilling life if we're not. [00:05:00] Utilizing what is innate in us that wants to be expressed. Mm-hmm. And that can be as simple, I mean, it can come out in so many different ways, but it can be as simple as cultivating a small garden or cooking or you know, singing.
It's not just words. It's not just our hands or our voices, um, that express there's, I think, language is. Incredibly creative. Mm-hmm. Um, learning different languages. Mm-hmm. And for me, I like to experiment with lots of different forms of creativity, especially if I'm feeling a bit drained or blocked in one.
Mm-hmm. Um, I look for things that are really outside of my typical wheelhouse. Mm-hmm. Not what I might do on a more professional level or that I do more often. I just look for things that are. Fun. Yeah. We don't have enough fun that's in our [00:06:00] lives, so anywhere we can weave that in. Yeah. Creative living and it's like I, sometimes I say it's like the scenic route, you know, choosing like the scenic route, you know, for a task or for something that might be a bit more mundane.
So, yeah. Beautiful. So tell us a bit about your own creative journey then, and, and what practices have really sparked that creative expansion, spiritual growth within you. Well, I've always been a writer ever since I was a little kid. I started out writing little stories about my animals. Um, I'm an animal lover.
Mm-hmm. So that was kind of my first foray into writing. And then I wrote poetry and screenplays and greeting cards and essays. Personal, um, uh, profiles and I went through a journalism degree and then I did travel articles. And so, I mean, I've written all over the map. Mm-hmm. But then I sort of set it aside for a while.
Life happened. Mm-hmm. I opened a yoga studio, started pursuing my [00:07:00] yoga therapy path, and then I really started to see. A, an opening in the world of yoga books. Um, this is 15 years ago now. Mm-hmm. 10, 12, 15 years ago. Lost track of years. Um. But as a teacher, I was always looking to explain the deeper philosophies of yoga to my students.
Mm-hmm. In a way that they could comprehend and digest in the, in an hour long class. Mm-hmm. But I wanted them to walk away from a physical yoga class with something deeper. And so the, the philosophy books that I was reading as a teacher, I had time to do that. It was my, my passion to read that. But I knew that they would not, the average student would not have time for that.
So. I was looking for a book that would help me deliver the philosophical end of the YO of yoga. Mm-hmm. To my students, and I couldn't find it. So it sparked me into writing what I thought was an appropriate book on that topic, which [00:08:00] was my first book called True Yoga. And it took seven years to get published, was not an easy journey.
But it has been really well received and, and, and has been, um, embraced in the very way that I had hoped that it would by both students and teachers of yoga who want to understand the concepts of yoga philosophy and implement them in their daily lives and make them really pragmatic. So, um, I think as a writer, I've always been, um, I mean, like I said, I played with a lot of different forms, but.
As a writer teacher, it's more about communication. So I, I've been propelled by wanting to communicate a message that I either feel is needed in the world or that is really important to me. Mm-hmm. Um, my second book, breathing Love is all about taking our meditation practice off the cushion and how we walk in the world and really living and breathing that.
Mm-hmm. Love and peace that we're cultivating when we're. [00:09:00] On the meditation cushion, and that's just super important to me. I mean, that is what I try to live and breathe and embody. So sure. I wanted to convey that. And then third book, spark Change is a book about. Our spiritual evolution via the questions, many of the questions that I worked with private clients on in my yoga therapy practice.
And so the more that we do that self-inquiry, which is mm-hmm. One of the foundational tools of yoga philosophy, self-inquiry is kind of the compliment to meditation. Mm-hmm. Um, the more that we are able to define. Like you were saying, what is that most meaningful and purposeful path? Mm-hmm. For us? How do we wanna express it?
What creative form wants to move through us and we open ourselves into those dimensions of more transcendent. Life experience. Mm-hmm. That hopefully can [00:10:00] translate into also pragmatic work. Yeah. Um, doesn't always, doesn't always pay the bills, but it feeds the soul. It sounds like you are trying to, um, make it more accessible, you know, make these spiritual and creative, you know, tools.
Um, more accessible because I feel, feel like some of it feels a little bit unreachable. It certainly has historically, in terms of, you know, like, um, it's only for the select few that are able to, you know, channel or tune into this, you know, immense, um, you know, universal power. So, um, would you agree with that?
Is your, is that your intention behind your work to really make it practical and down to earth? Absolutely. Absolutely. I am nothing if not practical, pragmatic, and all about the useful, usable little tools that people can carry forward. Because honestly, I was a single mom for 10 years. I know what it's like to own my own business, try to balance also parenting.
Mm-hmm. And it's not easy. I mean, the stress levels that I see in the world today with my [00:11:00] clients and friends and just all around us are super high. People are maxed out. They don't have a lot of time to go sit on a mountaintop and contemplate. No. Live. So I feel like anything that we're offering, um, yeah.
As teachers needs to be super pragmatic and Yeah. Uh, a able to do in a short period of time. Yeah. But, you know, and I know we're gonna get there, uh mm-hmm. Talking about the artist residency that I. Yeah. Founded. Um, but the intention with that program, so it's called Essere Writers and Artist Residency, and my intention in creating that was to give people a time and a space where they could step outta the production cycle mm-hmm.
And step into the really being and listening space. Mm-hmm. Much like we would do on a yoga retreat, which I've also led many of those over the years. But beautiful. Bringing that sort of contemplative, quiet. Receptive space [00:12:00] to the creative, settling into the process rather than, you know, focusing on, on the outcomes I guess.
So that's really beautiful. Um, so before we get to the artist residency questions, you know. What do you think blocks us from, you know, authentically and honestly expressing our soul's truth? You know, um, the stuff that wants to come through through us, even when we want to do it, you know, what blocks us from being really truthful and honest with ourselves, um, and expressing that, well, so many things.
But you said something key in there which was being truthfulness with ourselves. Mm-hmm. And I think that's one thing people don't. Always recognize that they're not being completely truthful with themselves first. Mm-hmm. And that is where it needs to begin. And that's why a practice like meditation for me, is absolutely critical because it is the space in which I sit and observe my thoughts and recognize the things that are [00:13:00] moving through, which could be potential blockers, right?
Mm-hmm. So whether that's. A voice of fear mm-hmm. Of how my work might be received or Sure. Um, the hesitation around extending myself vulnerably mm-hmm. Because it's competitive out there and there's lots of voices and, you know, it's just, it feels too hard or scary or overwhelming. So I think what blocks us are, are the, the inner voices.
Of judgment that we're not good enough. What we have to say isn't valuable enough. Um, there's too much competition. Mm-hmm. All the voices of e either self-judgment, self-criticism, or self-sabotage in terms of mm-hmm. Just feeling too afraid to do it. Mm-hmm. And you know, as a creative, you have to grow a thick skin.
As I had said, my [00:14:00] first book, it took seven years to get that published. Sure. I went through so many rejections. It was ridiculous. I mean, my agent even set it aside and just was like, this isn't gonna sell, and mm-hmm. Then it just happened. We happened to get some interest from it from a publisher out of the blue many years after our initial pitches.
Mm-hmm. And. But at that time, I had gotten so worn down. Mm-hmm. And so discouraged that I almost didn't. I almost didn't believe it was gonna happen or didn't, you know? And, and I really had to rally my inner forces to say, okay, yeah, let's try again. Let's, let's, let's see what we can do with this and see if we can get a contract on it.
Mm-hmm. And I'm really glad I did. Yeah, sure. Um, yeah, it, it takes a lot of resilience to keep coming back. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And a vulnerability, you know, to sort of expose yourself like that and be rejected. Yeah. Or criticized. Yeah. It's really powerful and I do think, you know, just [00:15:00] leaning into, um, you know, that self-judgment piece and really being in our head, you know, rather than our heart when we are creating, you know, what I love to do is sort of.
You know, infuse some spiritual practices at the beginning of like a, a creative session, you know, and make it more of a ritual so that you're actually sitting down and grounding yourself with written intention before you are asking for, you know, creative flow to arrive and before you're asking for, you know, um, that creative energy to, to appear and to deliver, um, you know, what you want.
Um, yeah. So really beautiful in terms of fusing the spiritual and the creative as part of your process. Yeah, I mean, I think having those rituals to invite the creative flow is important, but we also have to be aware of what our vessel is. Capable of. Right? Yeah. So if, I mean, spirit can't flow through us if we're not really available to it.
Yeah. And willing to take those [00:16:00] risks. Yes. And be extend ourselves and be vulnerable and be that, yes, that messenger. Right. So yeah, that's where play comes in, right? Like you have to include play as part of that process, otherwise you lose touch with all of that stuff that you just said, you know? Yeah. Um, that risk taking and, and that, um, vulnerability, you know, I think including play is super important for our own wellbeing.
Um. I would say not taking ourselves too seriously too is a really important quality to develop. And that's where the yoga practices have helped me. Mm-hmm. Because there's so much teaching around, you know, recognizing the ego for what it is. Mm-hmm. And being able to set it aside and, and recognize ourselves as spiritual beings as well, that our.
So much more than the ego and so much more than that human story and being able to laugh at it and kind of not take it so seriously. Yeah. And being open to the fact that we are continually evolving and growing, you know, as, as it [00:17:00] is our creativity as part of that. Right. So being gentle, you know, and, and kind to ourselves as part of that process.
Gentle and kind two words that are, uh, dear to my heart because my son's name, um, means gentle and kind. It's daily it Oh wow. That I chose for that reason because those qualities are very, very important to me and not That's cool. So evident in the world these days. Yeah. Yeah. And it starts with us, right?
We have to practice it, um, with ourselves. Yeah. That's pretty cool. So. Why do you think that, um, creative expression holds so much transformative power? Well, because I do think that it's our souls in action. Mm-hmm. Right? So if we're, if we're allowing ourselves to be those vessels for spirit to move through mm-hmm.
Via our creative [00:18:00] process, whatever that looks like. Mm-hmm. Um. We are getting closer to our spiritual nature because we're in that co, what they would call co-creative space with spirit. And the more that we don't do that, and sort of Eddie in our own little egoic kind of, I'm in control of my life space.
Yeah. I think is just not as evolutionary, certainly not as as pleasant and mm-hmm. Um. Not really where we're meant to be, so, no, no. So moving into the artist residency then, which I think is an amazing concept. Love it. Um, what inspired you to start running, you know, a writer and artist residency in Tuscany?
Yeah. Well, I had, as a writer, I'd been to several residencies mm-hmm. Uh, while I was working on different books. And many of them are created as. I mean, there's so many different types. [00:19:00] There are solitary ones, there are group ones, there are ones where a certain, um, product is expected at the end from the participant.
And as I said, I had run yoga and meditation retreats for many years. Mm-hmm. And then as a writer, I was going on these residencies and I saw, again, I kind of, it's a marketplace thing, right? So I saw a, a. A space for something different that I wasn't finding out there. Mm-hmm. I wanted as a writer, to go to a space that did have that kind of spiritual component.
Mm-hmm. Um, or at least a spiritual essence to it. Mm-hmm. Where I know as the facilitator now, I hold. The view that we are all there as spiritual beings in our highest creative process. Mm-hmm. So whether we talk about spirituality or not is not really the important thing, um, because that's not always appropriate, depending on the group that I have.
Sure. Um, sometimes it comes up in conversations, sometimes it [00:20:00] does not. But as an energy, that's how the space is held. Mm-hmm. And it's a retreat, like residency in the sense that it's the. What I am. Encouraging people to do is to take space for their process. Mm-hmm. For that inner listening to forget about the production cycle while they're there.
Sure. Yes. Many people are very productive, but it comes more organically. Mm-hmm. It is not so much about, come in with a project, get it done, hammer out a some certain number of pages every day. Some people do that and that's great. I had a couple of painters from Australia, actually. Beautiful ladies who came to one residency and honestly, before I'd even greeted the group, they were just like in the studios setting up their easels and on it.
So, you know, that's great. They were on fire, uh, with passion for their work. Mm-hmm. And they got a tremendous amount done. But then I've had people come [00:21:00] in where. They've really not gotten anything accomplished in terms of actual product to show as they walk out. But they've had a transformative experience because they've allowed themselves to rest.
Yeah. And be, yeah. And the word Essere means to be an Italian. So Yeah, I saw that. I saw that. Yeah. Yeah. That's the intent behind the program. Yeah. So tell us a bit more about, you know, what, what you hope, um, you know. The residency or the retreat, um, offers in terms of transformation, you know, for creative and personal growth, you know, what is your hope that someone would take away from, from a, um, an experience like that?
I. Couple things. I hope that they can step away from their daily lives and start to feel from an inside out kind of perspective what it is that their soul is really wanting to express at that time. Because I think as we get more into [00:22:00] a professional life as a creative mm-hmm. We can kind of get swept along with the tide and maybe something that has been successful just becomes generative.
But then after a certain point, it's not really where our spirit is taking us. Mm-hmm. And it's hard to step away from it because it might be where our income source lies. Mm-hmm. Or where the reputation lies, and we wanna, but we wanna try something different and that can feel really risky. Mm-hmm. Um, almost riskier than for somebody just starting out who doesn't have, you know, a, a reputation built around a certain body of work.
So, but I hope that people can, can just pause from mm-hmm. Wherever they are in their. Careers as creatives and listen, listen internally, listen to what is wanting to be expressed. Hmm. That's one thing. The second thing is that I hope that they can embrace being in a cross-cultural and, um, international community [00:23:00] that where, you know, when I curate a group, I'm curating, not just based on, um, professional.
Work, but on the character and the. General intent of why people are wanting to do a residency like this. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I'm trying to bring together as diverse a group as possible, because I really believe that we learn and grow through exposure to people who are different from ourselves. Mm-hmm. And as creatives, we need that stimulation.
Mm-hmm. And we shouldn't just be having conversations with people who are writing or painting or singing in the same genres that we are sure we can learn from those mentors. And, and part of the experience is also to have, um, mentorship from professionals in different mm-hmm. Disciplines, but there's so much to be said from the conversations that happen spontaneously at the dinner table.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. With people who come from just completely [00:24:00] different backgrounds. Sure. Maybe they're different ages, different genders, different disciplines of work, but they're having a conversation about the creative process and suddenly they're. They're sparking things for each other. Yeah. And so to, to embrace that and to take yourself a little bit out of your comfort zone mm-hmm.
I think is one of the benefits to the, the, the experience. Yeah. Sounds, sounds amazing. And it's that inspiration, you know, inspiration feeds inspiration feeds inspiration. Right. So, so cool. Love it. So for all the women out there who are curious about more authentically and creatively expressing their soul's truth, what powerful message or question would you like to leave them with today?
Well, I would say do something. Mm-hmm. Anything, something small, something exploratory. Think of it as, um, think of taking [00:25:00] one step as an exploration, as an experiment with no, don't limit yourself with big agendas or outcomes or expectations, because that will inevitably shut you down at the beginning.
Mm-hmm. But if you think of. The creative process as a big experiment, like what would be, what would one fun step be today? Mm. And just do something because energy flows. When we start to move it and mm-hmm. I was having a conversation with a friend, uh, the other day, and she said, we just have to keep stirring the mud and eventually that lotus pops up, right.
The mm-hmm. Um, something beautiful comes from the sludge and I, I've had plenty of times where I've just been feeling stuck in the mud, literally. Mm-hmm. Um. And not feeling particularly creative. Mm-hmm. But I do know that if I just start moving in [00:26:00] some direction, even if it's like I had said earlier, even if it's not within the discipline that I necessarily ultimately wanna be working on, like my writing, yeah.
I might go and try experimental cooking. Mm-hmm. Sing a song like Belt Out a song in Italian because I love singing and just speaking in Italian, but that feels creative to me in that moment and it kind of stirs the mud, right? Yeah. So yeah, do so do so. Any little thing. So cool. So how can people get to know you better, uh, Jenny, and um, get a real feel for the work that you're doing?
Well, um, my website is jennieleecoaching.com. Mm-hmm. Um. You can reach out, you can have a discovery call with me. We can chat about what you're working on and see how what I offer may or may not align for you. Um, there's lots and lots of articles on my website that I've written lots of, um, podcasts on there as well.
Mm-hmm. [00:27:00] That people can listen to some of the messages that I share around the creative process and spiritual living. Um. They can come, you can apply and come to Essere or to a yoga retreat. I'm also running a yoga and meditation retreat in Tuscany, uh, next September. So I have both next fall. Um, so yeah.
Excellent. Thank you so much for coming and chatting with me today. Loved our conversation. Thank you. Thank, thank you, Sam.
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