A Husband's Perspective on Desire Differences... with Nathan Bartel

Most marriages have one spouse who is more interested in sex, and another who is less interested. This is desire difference. While this is normal--most marriages have a desire difference one way or another--it causes a lot of tension in marriages.

Sarah brings on her husband, Nathan, to talk about understanding desire difference from a husband's point of view at a deeper level. Beyond just physical libido, he shares about the yearning for connection with their wives he hears from men he's worked with who have the higher desire. He also shares what it's like for the husband who has the lower desire.

Understanding is key, and so are actionable skills that couples can use to help navigate the different factors at work.

Sarah and Nathan point some paths forward to creating more connection--including not making sex the only source of connection in the marriage. 

They discuss the importance of recognizing the wife's mental load, and how the wife and husband can work with that. 

Affirmation and gratitude, non-sexual touch, empathy, and curiousity all help husbands and wives grow closer, feel seen, feel like they matter to the other, and grow in their unity and emotional connection.

Catholic husbands interested in Nathan's free Desires Differences workshop can join here through March 12th. Replays of past calls are available.

Desires Differences Workshop:

https://canafeast.com/desire

MORE RESOURCES

Free Enhancing Marital Intimacy Guide for Catholic Women: 9 Skills for Body, Mind, and Spirit (for married and engaged women)

Do you want to know what is allowed for Catholics in the bedroom? The "What's Allowed List" answers 20+ questions about what is licit and illicit. ($10)

Model-free lingerie! Get 10% off with my affiliate link for Mentionables.

Transcript

Speaker 2 0:50

I have a very special guest to share about desire differences. It's my own husband. Nathan, thank you so much, Nathan, for joining me.

Speaker 0:59

I always love joining your podcast. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 1:03

Well, it's very special to have you here and I'm really excited about what you're doing. Shining a light on desire difference, specifically to help husbands understand how to navigate desire differences. Can you tell a little bit about what inspired you to focus on this for the workshop you're leading?

Speaker 1:22

Oh, yeah. So I've got a free four day workshop going on right now. We just did our first day yesterday, and I picked this topic because it has gotta be one of the most common. Uh, challenges, pain points, struggles, sources of frustration that men report in their sex lives. Right. And I, I imagine it's similar for women. Mm-hmm. Like these differences in desire. One spouse wants it more, one wants it not as much. And let's also be clear, the high desire spouse could be the man or the woman.

Speaker 2 1:55

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:55

And the low desire spouse could be the man or the woman.

Speaker 2 1:59

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:59

So it's not always the stereotype of men want it, more women want it less.

Speaker 2 2:04

I think it's a gift already, just to be able to name that this happens I think so many couples feel like we're broken. This is not how it should be when actually. I would say pretty much almost every marriage has a difference in level of desire or interest in love making between the two spouses.

Speaker 2:24

Yeah, absolutely. And that, that was actually a big part of, one of the first things that we talked about was. Kind of normalizing the problem and even saying like, it's not really a problem, it's just a kind of a phenomenon, normal dynamic, that two individuals aren't exactly the same in this area. Why are we surprised at this?

Speaker 2 2:43

Well, right. You know, when we think about. Every other area of life. It is pretty rare for two different individuals to be as interested or as enthusiastic about, you know, any given topic or activity or, um, yeah.. Like we just, this is normal that there's variation.

Speaker 3:01

Yeah, exactly. But then it's also really important to know, I think, and I teach

Speaker 2 3:06

mm-hmm.

Speaker 3:07

That. On top of that normal variation, there are also some very specific and real reasons for driving a lower desire or a higher desire. So I think. Knowing that we're just naturally different and we shouldn't necessarily expect things to be the same, that's that's important and that's really good. At the same time, it's also important not to just throw up our hands and say, well, that's just the way we are, and we're just stuck with this because we can do things to unite us more in this area and kind of dig beneath the surface and help us find common ground.

Speaker 2 3:45

I think that's really wonderful to realize there's more to understand. We can pop open the hood and look and see what's going on in the engine here.

Speaker 3:54

Absolutely.

Speaker 2 3:55

And, and then really that helps us understand how we can connect better and unite better as husband and wife in, in our life as a whole, and then also in this very delicate and sensitive and laden. Area of marital intimacy. Yes. There's so much story, so much, emotional story mm-hmm. That is connected to this area. Rightly so. It is about our personhood. So

Speaker 4:19

absolutely.

Speaker 2 4:20

We're gonna feel it deeply in so many ways.

Speaker 4:22

Yeah. And it, and it all starts with empathy and curiosity towards the other person. Right. Because we know what's going on in our own hearts. Maybe, maybe we need to do a lot of introspection on our own. And discover what's happening in our own lives and in our own hearts and minds and spirits. But then we also need to be very open to being curious and empathetic towards our spouse as well, and learning from them what their experience is.

Speaker 2 4:49

Well, I'm gonna start with the women listening. I think a lot of wives feel like, oh my gosh, how can I possibly keep up with my husband's? Infinite desire. He's so interested all the time in love making and like, I, I cannot keep up. I am a failing as a wife and I feel so badly about, you know, declining or rejecting him. Um, and I, yeah, women just feel a lot of guilt around this, though I am going to emphasize for the record, there is no. Sin in declining love making. So it's just that feeling of like, oh, I feel like I should do more., But let's be curious and empathetic about the higher desire husband. What is going on with him? Because I think a lot of wives they tell themselves oh, he just, that's the only thing he thinks about. He just wants it all the time. He's got this physical drive and, uh, they, they may fill in other details, but that's just a bare sketch of. You know, what she might think is going on with him, but tell us more. Let's get deeper and understand from the higher desire husband, what do you hear about what he's thinking and feeling about this dynamic?

Speaker 6:01

Well, let me start by saying, men share with me that yes, they have a physical desire that is there and we won't deny that, but much, much deeper than that and more profound than that is a desire to connect with their wives. They desire their wives and what they ache for is for their wives to desire them in return. They want to be wanted.

Speaker 2 6:27

Is this more than just physical libido desire

Speaker 6:30

that they

Speaker 2 6:31

want?

Speaker 6:31

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think one of the things we can kind of unpack and get curious about is for some men, of course we all we're speaking in generalities. Mm-hmm. But this isn't universally true, but for some men, I think that there is a. Maybe a shortcut and kind of seeing sex as that connection.

Speaker 2 6:53

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 6:54

Using sex, like it's all, it

Speaker 2 6:55

becomes all the

Speaker 6:55

connection. Right. And sex isn't designed for that. Sex is a reflection of the connection, the love, the unity in our marriage, and it can't substitute for it, if that makes sense. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 7:09

Right. But that's what. Like, maybe they feel like I can access it this way.

Speaker 7:13

Right? I think so.

Speaker 2 7:15

And I get that because I just was having a conversation with a woman that I'm serving in my delight. Busy mom, lots of kids, some young kids. There's a lot that's taking her attention and focus. And she shared that her husband says, you know, sex is just the way I can get your attention. I'm paraphrasing. He didn't say it exactly like that. Sure. But that's the idea, is like, this is how I can get you with me. You know?

Speaker 7:44

And maybe there's some truth to that. I mean. I think one of the big challenges for men and women, both for especially in that stage of life with, you know, several young kids, families are just stretched.

Speaker 2 7:59

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 7:59

Parents are stretched, women are stretched, men are stretched. There's stress with work, with home, like all the things. And it's really, really, really hard to prioritize marriage and connection and your relationship. Relationship with each other. And so what's like. The next best thing or the the quick win, so to speak, the shorthand. The shorthand might be to make love

Speaker 2 8:22

that represents the relationship at whole,

Speaker 8:24

I

Speaker 2 8:25

think. Right? Yeah. I feel like maybe what you're saying is this right. Correct me. If not, is it that for a lot of men, sax represents, do I matter to my wife?

Speaker 8:35

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a good way to say it, and I just wanna emphasize that. It's not all about the physicality. Mm-hmm. It's really a deep desire for the connection. Mm-hmm. The deep connection, that's what's underneath it all. And what's more profound,

Speaker 2 8:54

and I think what you and I would both say in response to that is that deep connection is of primary importance. Yeah. And it needs way more tending than it's getting. Yep. And that you can't ask sex. To Repla, you know, to do the job of creating that connection. Right.

Speaker 9:15

Absolutely. I said that earlier, sex can't substitute for that connection.

Speaker 2 9:19

Mm-hmm. So we need, I think, to really encourage husbands and wives to create, create space in their day, in their week, in their month, and their year, just for each other. Just to have space for that emotional connection and that mm-hmm. That person to person. Um, heart to heart time.

Speaker 9:39

Yeah. Because I think you would agree, I, I say this all the time, that our, the quality of our sexual relationship is really a reflection of the quality of our marital relationship.

Speaker 2 9:52

Mm-hmm. Overall, a hundred

Speaker 9:52

percent. Yeah.

Speaker 2 9:53

Yeah. Okay. So what's a takeaway? Understanding this, what can a couple with this dynamic where it's a higher desire husband, really underneath, he's just craving to know, do I matter to my wife? Does she love me? You know, do I matter as much as the kids, as much as the housework, as much as her job, her volunteer activities. Do I rank?

Speaker 10:15

Yeah.

Speaker 2 10:15

Um. So what can he do and what can she do?

Speaker 10:19

Well, I think really relearning how to affirm each other. Mm-hmm. How to give each other gratitude, how to sh communicate those messages, which you just articulated so well outside the bedroom in nonsexual ways. So it's, it's compliments, it's acts of mm-hmm. Like kind of go down the list of the love languages, right?

Speaker 2 10:40

Yeah.

Speaker 10:41

It's acts of service, it's compliments, it's, um. Touches, nonsexual touches, like mm-hmm. You know, nice kind ones. Um, all of those things, and especially deep conversation.

Speaker 2 10:56

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 10:56

Right. Because that's how we really get to know the other person.

Speaker 2 11:00

Yeah. Yeah. To, to be thoughtful of the other. I would just like to add a little sidebar here for the sake of anyone listening, and I think I might dedicate an entire podcast episode to this at some point. Sex is not a love language. Just because someone has a top physical, a love language of physical touch, the author of the Love Languages book specifically said, this does not mean sex. You cannot say, oh, my top love language is, is physical touch. Therefore, I need a lot of sex. That's not how this works.

Speaker 11:29

Yeah, that's that's actually true. I was gonna mention that too. Gary Chapman, the author of Love Languages. Go read the book. He has a several pages dedicated to that exact topic and he is very emphatic.

Speaker 2 11:40

Mm-hmm. But basically we need to turn towards one another more than we do. Give each other time, give each other these thoughtful expressions of our love in with touch acts of service, um, all the other ones

Speaker 11:54

as well. Words of affirmation. Yes, yes. All of those things.

Speaker 2 11:58

Okay. Um, I was thinking about the wife. Here. She has got so much mental load inside her head but a lot of it is invisible to her husband. Mm-hmm. So when he is reaching for connection with her and initiating love making, and she's thinking, I've got like a million things to do, how could I possibly take time for love making? And even if she says, okay, yes, she's thinking. It's hard for her to get into that space that women need to enjoy love making, which is a space of like some relaxation and play because that mental load doesn't feel relieved to her. Mm-hmm. How can the husband help her?

Speaker 12:42

Okay, so, um, I. Teach men to help their wives with exactly this. But here's the really important thing that, that I want everyone listening to hear. Mm-hmm. It is not a transaction.

Speaker 2 12:59

Mm.

Speaker 12:59

No. Because it can slide. That's a good slide into that. So easily. It's not like, I'll do the dishes tonight and then we'll make love.

Speaker 2 13:06

Right.

Speaker 13:07

Or I'll tuck in the kids. I do that for you, and then you'll have sex with me. Right. It's not that. What it is is cultivating the marriage, the family life, the relationship in such a way that authentic intimacy has the right conditions to flourish.

Speaker 2 13:29

Yes.

Speaker 13:30

That's what we're after.

Speaker 2 13:31

It's like, let's weed the garden. Yes. So that this plant can have some space to grow here.

Speaker 13:35

Yes. Yes. But that's the, and you know what, one of the guys in, my challenge call last night literally used that metaphor, and I loved it, Uhhuh. And he said, it's like sometimes you, you tend to garden or you, tend a plant and the fruit doesn't come for a while.

Speaker 2 13:53

I'm like, yes,

Speaker 13:54

yes. Sometimes it takes some time. You need to weed the garden. You need to water the plant, you need to fertilize it. Some need a little structure.

Speaker 2 14:02

Yeah.

Speaker 14:02

And then in due course, that plant becomes healthier and healthier and at the right time, the fruit. Comes.

Speaker 2 14:08

Yes. And it's organic. It's not mechanical. Right, exactly. Like, it's not like put in this

Speaker 14:12

Yes.

Speaker 2 14:13

You know, coin and then bing the machine gives you a, a pop or, that's right.

Speaker 14:17

Like

Speaker 2 14:17

it's a vending machine.

Speaker 14:18

That's right.

Speaker 2 14:19

Let's talk about the other dynamic where it's, um, higher desire wife and the husband, you know, is not as interested in sex. Um, and we're talking, we know, of course there's spontaneous and responsive desire. Yep. So, you know, he's needs a little more encouragement to, to get in the mood here. What is going on with him? I can tell, you know, the higher desire wife is embarrassing I, yeah. Things

Speaker 14:44

like that. Yeah. And the higher, the lower desire husband has probably many of the same thoughts that the lower desire wife does, or at least some of the same. And he's thinking, I'm, am I good enough as a man? I'm not pleasing her. I'm not man enough.

Speaker 2 15:02

How

Speaker 15:02

can I keep up? What's wrong with me? How can I keep up? Yeah. All, all of those things. Um, the, the issues beneath the surface are likely somewhat similar. Like I have been the lower desire spouse in our own marriage, and if I look back at those seasons, I was working a super, super stressful job

Speaker 2 15:25

mm-hmm.

Speaker 15:26

And was really, really stressed with lots of stuff and, you know, our lives,

Speaker 2 15:31

yeah.

Speaker 15:31

Really affect our libido. It's real. Mm-hmm. You know, so look, look at the stress factors. Look at, you know, what does a typical day or week in the life look like? And that's a lot of

Speaker 2 15:43

it. And then I think also understanding for that higher desire wife, what are you assigning sex to mean? Is that the only way your husband shows you he loves you? Because I know for me, in those seasons, I would tell myself, um, you know, when I was coaching myself, well, I'd be like, well, actually Nathan shows me he loves me in so many ways and I'm gonna really lean into appreciating all those ways. And yeah, so it's, um. There's, there's so much more to discover about this dynamic, and I'm really grateful that you are offering this workshop for husbands to help them, you know, day by day over the course of four days. Look at many different facets of this. So, um, yeah. Do you want to just say the name of the workshop again?

Speaker 16:27

Yeah. So the workshop is, um, dealing with differences in desires for Catholic husbands. Uh, it's going for the next three days. So cana feast.com/desire is where you can sign up. And the replays are also on my personal podcast as well, the Holy Desires Podcast.

Speaker 2 16:45

Oh, nice. So through. Thursday, March 12th.

Speaker 16:49

Correct.

Speaker 2 16:49

2026.

Speaker 16:50

That's right.

Speaker 2 16:50

Awesome. Well, I hope that you all, know that God delights in you and live love in your marriage richly in so many ways. Thank you, Nathan.

Speaker 17:00

Thanks for having me.