Balance Is in Motion: Acupuncture, Stress, and Resilience with Dr. Haley Parker

What if balance isn’t something you “achieve”… but something you practice—over and over again?

In this episode of Thursday Tea with Sami, Dr. Sami Estrada sits down with Dr. Haley Parker, integrative medicine leader and educator, to explore East Asian Medicine and how acupuncture, herbs, breathwork, and movement can support real-life wellness—especially for stress, burnout, pain, and women’s health.

Dr. Parker shares her personal “conversion moment” into acupuncture after stubborn athletic injuries, the misconceptions that still keep people from trying East Asian Medicine, and what a first acupuncture visit actually feels like (yes—there are funny intake questions, and no—it’s not as scary as you think). Together, Sami and Haley dive into why stress quietly builds in the body, how burnout shows up in early red flags, and why healing often starts with the simplest step: a deep breath and a small shift forward.

You’ll also hear:

• Why “balance is in motion” (and why life keeps testing us!)
• How acupuncture supports the nervous system’s rest-and-digest state
• The East Asian Medicine view that “where there is blockage, there is pain”
• Movement tips for chronic pain (stretching, walking, gentle cardio, and more)
• Women’s health insights across the lifespan: cycles, fertility, and transitions
• The difference between supporting athletes vs. everyday bodies
• Why early education and prevention could transform healthcare as we know it

If you’ve been feeling overwhelmed, burnt out, or stuck in pain, this episode is a grounding reminder that you’re not alone—and that healing doesn’t have to be all-or-nothing.

Learn more / Connect with Dr. Haley Parker & VUIM:

• University: VUIM.edu
• Clinic: VUIMclinic.com
• Campuses/clinics mentioned: Tyson’s Corner, VA • Ridgefield, NJ • Duluth, GA

Enjoy the episode?
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Transcript

Dr. Haley Parker (00:00)
It's a matter of us being able to practice balancing because balance is in motion. You're never just going to suddenly reach balance and stay there, right? Like it's a matter of always navigating the next thing and the next thing. I don't know about you, but about the time I pass a test in life and I'm like, oh, I finally learned a little bit of patience, right?

Samia (00:15)
Yeah.

Right.

Dr. Haley Parker (00:22)
there's another test that comes right after that. So to continue to be mindful and practice these elements because we're all in a journey and we're here to help them.

Samia (00:23)
Yes.

Samia (00:41)
You're listening to Thursday Tea with Sami, a weekly podcast where we translate mental health and lifestyle medicine into real life conversations that you can actually use. I'm Dr. Sami Estrada. pour a cup, get comfortable, and let's talk.

Samia (01:10)
Hi friends, and welcome back to Thursday Tea with Sami, your sip of wellness and mental health. I'm your host, Samia Estrada, and today we are exploring a field that beautifully bridges ancient wisdom with modern wellness, East Asian medicine and integrative health. I'm so excited to be joined by Hayley Parker, a leader in integrative medicine, a clinician deeply devoted to women's health.

and an educator who is bringing holistic wellness into both clinical spaces and our communities. Haley's work blends acupuncture, herbal medicine, breath work, movement, and truly compassionate patient care. She's also passionate about early education and teaching the next generation of healers. Haley, welcome. I'm so glad that you're here today.

Dr. Haley Parker (01:57)
Thank you for having me.

Samia (01:58)
it's my pleasure. And just to get us started, I'd love to just start with hearing your story. What first inspired you to pursue integrative medicine and eventually to step into leadership and community outreach roles?

Dr. Haley Parker (02:13)
That's always such a fun question. ⁓ Truly the path chose me. I did not grow up thinking I'd be an acupuncturist or exploring integrative fields or working in higher education. In fact, I was one of those students that couldn't wait to be done with school and just play outside. But my grandfather really introduced me to the medicine. I was a college athlete and I had several injuries that just were stubborn and wouldn't heal and feeling like I was already living in an old person's body at age 20.

Samia (02:27)
Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (02:40)
I was complaining a lot and my grandfather probably couldn't take it. And he took me to his acupuncturist who was an integrative practitioner, chiropractor, acupuncturist, nutritionist, and naprapath out in New Mexico. And it was the first time I was exposed to many of these modalities. And in just one treatment, it was very startling of how much better I felt. And I thought to myself, I'm like, wow, like why didn't anyone ever...

suggest this to me. Like even if it was placebo or even if it was witchcraft, like at a certain point I'd try anything, right? And so anyway, I spent a lot of my summer interning with this doctor and the more that I studied with him, the more it made sense to me. It just innately made sense that the body was designed to heal and that we could support the body's natural healing process. And ultimately there was a school that I applied to and I

Samia (03:07)
right.

Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (03:26)
I fortunately got into and then the path, the doors kept opening. So I started to study and now 15 years later, I was invited to work with Virginia University of Integrative Medicine to take a lot of my clinical experiences, which are, you know, there's many bumps in the road of learning what not to do and ultimately trying to build truly an integrative medical system for the future because many of us in integrative health believe in using all of the different spokes to the wheel.

However, when we're working with patients day in and day out, that takes a lot of our battery life. And so in addition to then building networks through advocacy and practitioner-practitioner rapport and referrals, there needs to be another level of specialty almost in a way for the field and working for the profession. And that's really where I found my niche and helping to educate students that there are many ways in which they can apply their gifts and ultimately promote health

area.

Samia (04:20)
it was something that you needed initially. And I feel like this is what happens most times is that we find something that we need. And so we research it for ourselves. And then we just want to share that gift with the world. And it sounds like that's kind of what happened for you.

Dr. Haley Parker (04:33)
Totally, and know, working with students, it's very interesting. There's a very unique kind of animal that comes through acupuncture school. And typically you need a conversion moment. And even patients, like you'll ask them, they've been coming for 20 years or something like, what made them start? was, sometimes it was something that could not be reached by the alopathic ways. Things that where they just didn't feel right.

Maybe it was a spiritual void, but they ultimately found their way to a calling to coming to the school. And I often find that when I'm working with the students, it's through them healing themselves that they find their passion for why they're in this medicine. And it's really beneficial for them when they go on to build their business, because as we know, working in this field, we're a little bit of the fringe outsider and there's a lot of resistance or there will be a lot of people who

Samia (05:02)
Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (05:24)
don't understand quite why we're doing what we're doing and we really need to know our own personal why to persevere.

Samia (05:29)
I And in your own path, so when you think back to your early career, were there any people or early moments that really influenced the healer that you became?

Dr. Haley Parker (05:29)
Mm-hmm.

Totally. I look back to so many of my mentors and I almost feel a little bad right now that I mean, as I'm older to just realize how much they were supporting me and how their total generosity of sharing knowledge and guiding me into the next step like footholds for climbing into the profession. And many practitioners,

Samia (06:00)
Good.

Dr. Haley Parker (06:04)
our medicine, traditional East Asian medicine, it's kind of modeled after like a martial arts apprenticeship. So you do learn from your clinicians and you've learned from like your teachers and you like how they explain certain things or their techniques. And so little by little, you're adapting these things. And then I will even say that my patients have been huge teachers for me. And sometimes the most difficult patients taught me the most compassion and taught me

Samia (06:16)
Yes.

you

Dr. Haley Parker (06:31)
like something that I needed later on in my own life and I had a point of reference to be able to understand it better thanks to something that's been taught to me before.

Samia (06:40)
yes, that has absolutely happened to me as well. And I find it so beautiful, both the mentors and our patients, right? The life lessons that we learn, the way that they do things. And I know I look back to my mentors and, you know, I'll always hold them in such high regard because if it wasn't for them, I wouldn't be the person that I am today. Well, I know that many people still carry misunderstandings about

East Asian medicine and just holistic medicine in general. In your experience, what are some of the biggest stigmas or misconceptions and where do you think they come from?

Dr. Haley Parker (07:16)
You know, people still feel like it's a foreign therapy. And so sometimes not understanding something, when something's unfamiliar, it becomes a little dangerous. And there's also this element of, you know, people often associate needles with pain or sickness. And that is in our Western world. You know, we only get a needle shot or get our blood taken when we're sick or we're ill.

Samia (07:39)
you

Dr. Haley Parker (07:39)
So

this idea of practicing this modality as preventative care and working with an acupuncturist as like a teammate or a coach to help keep you well and live the quality of life you're seeking, you know, that's something that we, it takes a little bit of critical thinking of like, well, what would that even look like for me if I didn't have a problem with what I focus my attention on? And so.

Samia (07:59)
with.

Dr. Haley Parker (08:02)
I do think that many a time when I'm meeting someone for the first time, and I love being someone's first exposure to the medicine because I can, I remember my first time and where I like was stiff on the bed and just like I was anticipating the needle and I was like, well, what's this gonna feel like? my fears were overtaking me of like wanting to know all the answers and how patient my very first practitioner was of just holding that space for me and helping guiding me through it and reminding me that like, you know, it is really scary to just learn how to relax.

Samia (08:10)
Yeah.

Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (08:30)
because when do we really do that? That too is very foreign to us. holding that, know, bedside manner, but then holding that space for a patient to really find their own way. Because as much as we can try to apply vocabulary and, ⁓ you know, try to explain things scientifically, ultimately that subjective sensation and understanding ⁓ really helps somebody have those light bulb moments of going, that's what it feels like to even not have pain, to feel relaxed, like,

Samia (08:31)
Yes.

Yes.

brain.

Dr. Haley Parker (08:58)
to suddenly remember how to open our chest cavity and breathe deeply into our belly. And so being able to really somatically embody that is, we can only help them so far and we have to walk them through that process.

Samia (09:03)
Yes.

Yes, absolutely. I can totally relate to the difficulty with relaxing because I remember, this was probably a couple of decades ago, but I went to get a massage once and I remember my masseuse said, it's okay, just relax your body. And to me, I thought my body was relaxed. So, you I always talk to my patients about how we carry stress for so long that we don't even realize what stress feels like on our body or what

relaxation feels like in our body. And so we just walk around with the stress thinking that that's the norm, but that's not really what our body should be feeling like. Yeah.

Dr. Haley Parker (09:50)
Right, I

mean, and I think this is like cats out of the bag a lot of the times when people meet me because they're like, you're not the typical Zen acupuncturist. you know, I always did feel like I was like, there was something not quite right with me compared to my classmates, but I had to remember that God gave me different gifts for a different purpose, you know, and we're all made exactly how we're supposed to be. Me relaxing doesn't look the same as someone else

Samia (09:58)
All right.

Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (10:13)
But I had to come to terms with that and understand which tools were right for me for which jobs and so sometimes You know, we can we can lean into like yogic meditative type practices or sometimes we lean more into like hiking out in nature or sometimes we lean more into like Acupuncture is the modality or or massage or chiropractic or you know, we there's many different ways in which we can tune back into ourselves and use

Samia (10:29)
Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (10:39)
of these wonderful tools out there to help us find our center where our body really knows how to do the rest. ⁓

Samia (10:45)
Yes, and I'm so glad you mentioned that because everybody's so

unique and what works for one person is not going to be the same thing that works for another. so sometimes when we think of the normative, right. And so sometimes when somebody goes and tries something that is quote unquote normal and that helps somebody relax and it doesn't work, they can feel like a failure or they can feel like nothing's going to work. But it's it's really good, I'm sure, for people to hear that.

You know, not everything is going to work for everybody and that you have to find what works for you because your body is unique and you are unique.

Dr. Haley Parker (11:20)
Absolutely, and that's where when people ask me like, well, should I try acupuncture? The answer is always yes, because you really don't know until you try it. Again, it may not be the thing you jive with, and it might not resonate with you at this time, or it just might not be your thing. But at least you know to try it, and it might be that down the line someone asks you, do you know a great acupuncturist? And you'll be able to share your experience to help someone else.

Samia (11:29)
Yes.

Right.

Dr. Haley Parker (11:46)
And it is a level of maturity of recognizing who you are and what you need and what you can do for yourself to help keep yourself going. Because as we know in this world, there's a thousand and one demands and only like our to-do list, you can only really get a few things done at a time. So how do we keep ourselves going to keep ourselves well and there for others and ultimately living the lives we wanna live?

Samia (11:59)
Yes.

Absolutely, And I want to back up a little bit because for somebody who has never experienced acupuncture or herbal medicine, I want to just ask you, how would you describe that philosophy behind the East Asian medicine?

Dr. Haley Parker (12:21)
That's a great question to start with. So, you know, 5,000 years ago when the Chinese discovered this medicine, they didn't have x-rays or microscopes to really understand the circulatory system or the nervous system or the, you know, the particles that run through our bloodstream, but they did understand that there was a network that connected everything into the body. And really that network is so extensive to the microcosm, to the macrocosm. We really to this day don't even understand it with our modern technology. And so,

Samia (12:44)
Yeah.

Right.

Dr. Haley Parker (12:50)
Ultimately, when the Chinese would put a needle in, or at the time it was maybe a crude tool, a fish bone or something like that, but they put a tool inside the body. created a little microtrauma. And they knew that that connected the brain into the body to help start to re-regulate the circuit board.

Samia (12:57)
Okay. Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (13:10)
Now modern technology has it, you know, this filiform needle, sterile, single-use filiform needle, which is metal and it's conducting. And so that helps to, you know, release endorphins and neurotransmitters, boost the immune system, help promote the circulatory system, help with inflammation, help with distribution of nutrients, help detoxify the body of impurities, also regulate the hormone system.

Samia (13:14)
Yes.

Yeah.

Dr. Haley Parker (13:32)
you know, any sort of like spasm or glitch in the muscle system, it's going to help to like, re-regulate that as well. And that's happening on such a cellular level that when you put this little teeny pin in the body, it's really redistributing the blood and brain chemistry to homeostasis. And it's in that homeostasis that the body really knows how to heal itself. And much by what you do too, we're trying to support health of the body rather than just fight disease. We want to intervene to really give the body the chance

to regulate itself and promote itself.

Samia (14:03)
Got it. Wow, that's so interesting. It's amazing how our body works. And you and I were talking a little bit about lifestyle medicine earlier, and I'm just wondering, how do the principles of East Asian medicine support the six core pillars of wellness that we talk about in lifestyle medicine? things like nutrition, movement, sleep, stress reduction, connection, and avoidance of risky substances.

Dr. Haley Parker (14:28)
So those six

pillars are almost flesh with what we do in traditional East Asian medicine. And a lot of people primarily associate East Asian medicine with the acupuncture, but acupuncture is one part of the different branches of East Asian medicine, which can also include nutrition. Rightful thinking is a very, very big one because our stress is just the underlying tapestry of so many illnesses. And that also creates so much inflammation in the body, which creates further breakdown.

rightful eating, mindful eating, nutritional supplements, like such in traditionally stage in medicine, the compendium of Chinese medicine with the herbs, you know, to supplement and support and balance out the constitution. In addition to exercise therapy, right? Qigong, Tai Chi, yoga, but also working on bone density or going out in nature and having a hike. Like there's many different ways in which we use these different modalities to help support the body.

Samia (15:07)
Yes.

Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (15:24)
And our colleagues in other therapies such as massage or chiropractic care really have roots that stem from the overall holistic acupuncture and East Asian medical system way back when, that then we started to break off and diversify. And as knowledge does spread throughout the world, and then we all started to evolve it in our own ways. But ideally, we use all of these different tools to support the individual, support the body, and help that person

live the best quality of life that they can be living.

Samia (15:56)
Yeah, that makes so much sense because

nothing exists in a vacuum.

Dr. Haley Parker (15:59)
Right. And I believe most practitioners understand this because when we come to school to become a practitioner, we really are undergoing an overhaul of our thinking and we're really embodying all of the philosophy. And the philosophy is that it's to be practiced as a lifestyle medicine. You know, there's no magic trick as much as my ego loves it when someone like is like, ⁓ after one treatment, I feel so amazing. know, it's really it's there. We have to coach our

Samia (16:16)
You

Right.

Dr. Haley Parker (16:26)
patients to help them understand what they can do for themselves the other 23 hours of the day, you know, six days didn't come in to see us that time and how they can, you know, get fresh air and sunlight, um, reduce their stress put lumbar support in their desk chair to help with their back pain. These modifications that are going to support them so that when they do come in for acupuncture we are helping to really keep their bodies strong

Samia (16:30)
Yeah.

Yes.

And that kind of brings another question to mind. Can you walk us through what a first

session might look like or what a first time patient might experience coming to an acupuncture appointment or even just an integrative medicine appointment?

Dr. Haley Parker (17:09)
Sure. first things for people who ask, well, how do you know if you have a good one? And like anything, you know, I really go back to you've got to find one that resonates with you. And there are many great practitioners out there. We all have a little bit of a unique ⁓ artistic style of how we practice. so finding somebody that you feel comfortable with talking about different aspects of your life, I think is a really great way to.

Samia (17:24)
Yeah.

Dr. Haley Parker (17:32)
Identify the practitioner for you and sometimes you have to try a few people out ⁓ Convenience is really important to find someone that you can get to their office Around your other busy things in life and I always say, know You can look on websites for practitioners in your area. You can ask around it's really surprising when people start to say yeah, my acupuncturist my acupuncturist are like I never knew you did acupuncture. So Ultimately you set up your first appointment typically the

Samia (17:36)
Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (17:59)
at least here at our clinic, you'd set up your appointment. We would ask for your insurance information if your practitioner takes insurance to be able to identify benefits. And you'd do the preliminary paperwork like any doctor's office. And then once you come in, as a practitioner, I go through an initial intake. And that initial intake is very extensive. We go through your main concerns, ⁓ major medical history, review of systems. And we really talk about the differentiating factors of

Samia (18:06)
Yeah.

Dr. Haley Parker (18:26)
of what your body is saying. Now, the traditional East Asian medical intake is a little weird sometimes where we're asking funny questions like, you know, consistency of ⁓ mucus or, you know, your stools and things that people are like, really, you have to ask me this stuff? But thousands of years ago when the Chinese were first practicing this through inquiry and through like pulses and tongue, and then someone's like main concern for why they came in, it was putting together like a puzzle and helping us identify a pattern.

Samia (18:41)
Oof.

Dr. Haley Parker (18:55)
And this pattern is ultimately what helps us to then pick a point prescription. And that point prescription I relate to like a recipe to the brain and body where these points are going to help activate in the neurology and tell the body what we're really trying to do. Whether it's trying to take care of an upset stomach or IBS or constipation or whether we're trying to help with low back pain and knee pain or whether we're trying to deal with anxiety and know, someone's about to take a test and they can't sleep at night.

Samia (19:15)
Yeah.

Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (19:24)
to pick this point prescription and the patient, like I said, hardest part for them is to lay there and relax and a great practitioner will help hold that space for them, walk them through that first treatment and from there they'll insert the needles and they take a nice little needle nap. Treatments can run from about 20 minutes, 30 minutes, enough to give the body that reset and then afterwards a patient can get up. We always recommend listening to your body but

Samia (19:39)
Okay.

Dr. Haley Parker (19:48)
There's no bars, like you can go shower, you could go take a nice walk around the block, you could eat a good meal. But typically patients say they sleep like rocks and they feel like just more relaxed after treatment.

Samia (20:01)
I can imagine. I'm kind of curious now as you've been talking about the needles and earlier we were talking about how, you know, people relate needles to pain and to, you know, being sick and things like that. Are there any techniques that you recommend for people who maybe want to try acupuncture but are more needle averse?

Dr. Haley Parker (20:21)
So practitioners have many tools in their toolkit. ⁓ And we treat children. So not all children are going to sit still, let alone be very fond of needles. And so there are pediatric techniques that can be used on adults. There are lasers. There are tools like the gua sha scraping technique or the cupping techniques, Tui Na, which we do. It's a Chinese body work.

Samia (20:31)
Yeah.

you

Dr. Haley Parker (20:46)
to help stimulate the points more like acupressure. As an acupuncturist, I am a bit biased and the insertion of a needle just creates such a cascade of healing. And it's such an exponential healing ⁓ process for the person that I really encourage them to embrace the needles. However, the needles that we use are a sixth the size of a hypodermic needle. So they're so thin.

that they're really imperceivable and thanks to the modern technology of the guide tube, it's a little piece of plastic that goes around the needle, and that disperses the the free ends of the the plastic that goes around the the the the the plastic that goes around the needle, and that disperses free ends of plastic that goes around needle, and that disperses free ends of nerves of surface of the skin. is actually very imperceivable, and if people take their tap their hand, that's k like the anticipation is o us, we do such worse thi waxed, we pluck our eyebrow

Samia (21:27)
Right.

Yes.

Right.

Dr. Haley Parker (21:40)
level

of like sting. But there are points, say for instance, on certain parts of the body that are going to hold more tension than others. And so there can always be a little bit ⁓ of a startling moment. However, the feeling of the acupuncture, once the needles are inserted, it's a nice deep ache. If anything sharp or uncomfortable, you just communicate with your practitioner and your practitioner can help to modify that so that you can feel relaxed and be able to enjoy the treatment.

Samia (22:05)
Yes. ⁓

wonderful. That's good to know. And I know that you also do a lot of work in women's health. What are some of the trends or some of the concerns that you've been seeing among women right now regarding their health, their hormones, their stress, their vitality?

Dr. Haley Parker (22:21)
Women are complex in such a beautiful way. So because we have so many different hormones that are dancing, they can get thrown off, especially in our modern lifestyle. We have many endocrine disruptors and we are also always changing and our hormones reflect that during our intake. Typically for our female patients, we ask them about their menstrual cycle and their menstrual cycle is like a report card to their health because it's such an indicator.

Samia (22:24)
Yeah. ⁓

Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (22:47)
of how the circadian rhythms are going in their body. so for every stage of life, we have something that women are reporting they need support with because that's really how we're keeping the woman's body going. And so I deal a lot with infertility for the mid 20s to about 30, 40 years old. And that's something where in our modern lifestyle, we don't necessarily have the same parameters that we used to when it came to ⁓

family planning and building. And sometimes we're juggling a lot of things and we're also trying to be stressed out while we're starting a family and the body can't quite compute what we're trying to do. And then as we go further down into the road of our womanhood and our wisdom, we go through menopause and all of these stages are normal stages of life. But those transitions can cause a lot of tumultuous symptoms. And ideally if we can help to balance out the body,

then those symptoms tend to just be nice little waves where you know you're going through the changes, but it doesn't have to be so catastrophic. Month by month, just helping to balance out the rhythms of the female body, allows the person to live a much more even-keeled life. For all of us female listeners, I'm sure you know what I'm alluding to, whether it's PNM or the Gram, breakouts or whatever it may be.

Samia (24:02)
Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (24:05)
Now with that, and I don't mean to leave the male listeners out either, males have hormone rhythms, but in female health, it's a very delicate balance. there's many things we can do with the needles, but also with herbs. Another great area that women tend to lean more into is the facial rejuvenation and micro-needling because that helps bring the micro-circulation to the face. And so this thing called aging that we all inevitably have to do,

Samia (24:05)
Okay.

Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (24:34)
who

can help to support our natural collagen production. And really by doing the acupuncture and the micro-needling, we're able to stimulate the health and the profusion of blood from the inside to glow on the outside while doing both, you know, our creams and topical programs to really keep ourselves looking well, but feeling well from the inside

Samia (24:52)
Yes,

I can imagine. And I'm glad that you brought that up. I've been thinking about holistic beauty, which is becoming more popular. Can you explain what this term means to you and what's real or helpful concerning in this trend? If there's anything that you have to say about that in particular?

Dr. Haley Parker (25:11)
You know, I love that question. Thank you for asking that because, you know, the first thing that comes to my mind is like, we can get very, we're very visual creatures. So we often think of just the initial visual superficial beauty as being beautiful. But if you've ever walked into a room and someone's energy just blows you away because their beauty is coming from such a deep, deep soul level, ⁓ their frequency, ⁓

Samia (25:31)
Yeah.

Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (25:37)
their glow, their mental, emotional ⁓ engagement and energy that's just pouring out of their body. Their beauty is perceived much stronger than somebody who's like, know, totally has no imperfections whatsoever on their skin, no blemishes whatsoever, but maybe doesn't have that same exude power and energy. And in traditional East Asian medicine, you know, of course we...

Samia (25:53)
Right. ⁓

Dr. Haley Parker (26:02)
course, beauty is subjective as well. So different people are going to see different things beautiful. In East Asian medicine, beauty really does come from the inside. And if your blood or your yin or your yang or your chi are affected or you're ill, you tend to see that on the outside. So what's going on inside is reflected on the outside. And so if we don't have the health of the inside working and functioning to keep us well at that cellular level internally,

Samia (26:20)
Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (26:27)
We can't expect for our bodies to ever keep up with the outside. And no matter how many creams we put on, they're not gonna help with the skin texture. No matter what we're doing when it comes to like, know, thinking positive, if our bodies are really just in chronic pain, that'll be a draining source of a lot of our energy. And so, you know, what we take into our bodies.

how we think, how we process, how we relate to our bodies is really important for then how we present our bodies in modern society. That being said, there are tons of products out there and I do really love this movement of holistic. Like remember, everything that was made for us is good for us. Like we have everything we need and...

Samia (26:56)
Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (27:14)
natural ingredients are so important because our skin is one of the largest, it is the largest organ, and we're absorbing so much through our skin. And whether it's perfumes or whether it's synthetics or preservatives, you know, that does need to be processed by our body and eventually there's going to be an area that maybe gets a little bogged down by that. I always go with the philosophy of 80-20 or mix and match a little bit because no one's perfect.

We live in an environment where we have to also take what we have available to us. But if we're mindful of this and we're practicing the holistic lifestyle, which drinking our water and eating well and eliminating toxins and stressors where we can, while at the same time promoting the beauty, I think we get both sides. We get from the inside out and the outside in.

Samia (27:59)
I'm so glad that you said that because I do see that a lot of people are so fixated on what treatments they can get or what creams or what makeup, but again, nothing exists in a vacuum. So if we're not taking care of ourselves internally, then it doesn't matter what we do externally, right? It has to be a combination. Everything is such a balance,

I love that you mentioned that, taking care of ourselves internally is just as important for beauty as any beauty treatment that we could have.

Dr. Haley Parker (28:32)
It is, and there's one other thing that you've sparked this for me all of a sudden is remember like the toxins, the energetic toxins around us? I see a lot of patients who they're working through their process. And mind you, probably much like what you do in your field, I do with mine of sometimes I'm just helping them find their own answers, but it could maybe potentially be a person in their environment or a stressful work situation that's no longer serving them and how they can detoxify

Samia (28:40)
Yes.

Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (29:00)
from a lot of those stressors too, to where they can live more fully themselves and fully embody themselves. And I always then have to remind my patients, I too am human and have to question this and reflect on things and use my friends as sounding boards, use my own personal therapists, use my journaling as reflection, but really being present in who you are and what keeps your mind, body and spirit in peace is a very big premise.

Samia (29:06)
Yes.

Right.

Yes.

Yeah.

Dr. Haley Parker (29:29)
Health is cumulative. So you can't have such a stressful, you know, 20 years of your life and then suddenly think, you know, it's not going to catch up to you. Like we really have to remember that we're building the body that we're going to continue to live in. And that's not just the physical body. That's the mental, emotional and spiritual body that that's coming with us throughout this lifetime. And so you can really, I think for all of us who work with practitioners and even ourselves, remember that like we can tell which people are

Samia (29:38)
Right.

Yeah.

Dr. Haley Parker (29:57)
kind of doing their work or aware of it. And that's where we come in to help support you through that process when no one can give you the answer, but help you find that answer to remain in your truth and remain in your beauty. Because at the end of the day, when you look at yourself, do you like what you see?

Samia (29:58)
Yes.

Good.

Right, and you know, as you were talking, it made me think about, you know, I have patients that come to me sometimes and talk about wanting to treat their anxiety or their depression because they're in a job that they hate or a job that is just really toxic for them. And it's hard to just treat.

the depression or the anxiety when every day you're going to this toxic place, right? And so there is a lot of conversation about is this the best place for you to work at, And a lot of times it's referred to as the golden cage, That the pay is so good and the benefits are so good that they don't wanna leave that job, but then their health is suffering and they're suffering and now they're having issues with

family members and now they're distancing from their partner and their kids are getting yelled at and you know so there's this whole wave of things that comes from it so I think very similar to what you were talking about we have to be aware of what's toxic in our life what's causing stress in our life and not that we can ever get rid of all stress but just to be mindful of that so that we can take the best care of ourselves that that we can.

Dr. Haley Parker (31:26)
It's a web. I explain to people and I even have to self-talk a lot of like, it's kind of like algebra equations where it's there are X and Y variables and what do we add in or what do we subtract so we can keep that balance? And toxic, like that, it is so true and we do, toxic is everywhere. However, there's no one thing like.

Samia (31:35)
Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (31:49)
I'm not toxic, you're not toxic, but maybe our chemistry doesn't work together or maybe for a time a job was really serving its role and I was really serving a role in that company environment. And then after things change, so when we grow, we're not static creatures, we're organic and so are models. So being really aware that like there will start to be friction. I tell my patients that there'll certainly be friction and then what are you going to do about it? Right.

Samia (31:53)
Right.

Yeah.

Right.

Dr. Haley Parker (32:15)
Do you change the job? Do you change the environment? Because you're interfacing and your body doesn't speak English. ⁓ It's symptoms. So the first symptoms are often the mental, emotional, frustration, irritability, being able to sleep at night. You know, as we start to ignore those subtle signals.

Samia (32:15)
Right.

Yes.

Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (32:38)
they start to get louder and louder and those canaries start squawking more and more. And then they start to go on to become deeper and physical. And you start to get the upset stomach or the people who have just that really tight tension in the neck and shoulders from like tensing up and that fight or flight response. Again, we are all human and this is normal. It would be abnormal or unhealthy if we weren't responding to our environment in a certain way.

Samia (32:40)
Yes.

Yeah.

There it is.

Yeah.

Dr. Haley Parker (33:03)
The trick is recognizing it. And then how do we mediate that? And how do we use our voice to be able to navigate? Or Amber, how do we make a decision to best serve ourselves and others? Because chances are, you're not happy in a certain career or relationship. The other person may have something to say too, but you can do that in a very much, ideally, very mature way of being in the air and putting

Samia (33:17)
Yes.

Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (33:32)
potentially the things we're thinking that are going on aren't going on, but communication is a big thing there. And we have so many courses on that as practitioners of learning communication. Not all communication is verbal. 80 % of it's nonverbal. And yet how much that affects our interface of an environment or what we start to impose or how we start to embody our environment. And all of these things are things we try to work with with our patients.

Samia (33:42)
Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (33:57)
to be able to better navigate themselves and navigate themselves in their environments.

Samia (33:58)
Yeah

And there are so many things that we can do. I know, I want to ask you about your field, but I know that, for example, in my field, that when we're dealing with these things and how to manage them that, all six pillars are so important, nutrition is so important and physical activity is so important. But I kind of want to bring it to movement for a moment. ⁓ We talked about movement as part of that lifestyle medicine pillar.

And I think about movement, especially for pain. So I'd love to hear from you. Why do you think that movement is so essential for pain management? if you could think about it through the lens of East Asian medicine, what would that look?

Dr. Haley Parker (34:42)
So we have a saying in East Asian medicine that where there is blockage, there is pain. And when there is no blockage, there is no pain. it sounds like just most anything so eloquent and pertinent. It's that sounds so simple, but it's like when you really think about it, it makes so much sense. And in the Western world, we kind of have this saying of, motion is lotion.

Samia (34:49)
Mm.

Yes.

It makes total sense. I'm going to borrow that.

Dr. Haley Parker (35:09)
And, you know, where is that really nice sweet spot of not too much movement to where we're sore and uncomfortable and aggravating conditions, but remembering to move enough to where we're lubricating our joints and we're getting oxygen to different tissues of the body. And ultimately, ⁓ in traditional East Asian medicine, one of the platforms of East Asian medicine is exercise therapy. And that can take many different forms, but

Samia (35:20)
Yeah.

Dr. Haley Parker (35:38)
Long ago, the practitioners already knew that it was important to keep these blockages from cementing in and causing more pain. And with the web of traditional East Asian medicine, everything's connected. So if you have a blockage in one place, that's ultimately going to trickle in to other compensation patterns or other areas that will feel pain or symptom. so oftentimes, the longer you have a blockage,

Samia (36:00)
Yeah.

Dr. Haley Parker (36:03)
the more symptoms, like patients will come in and they feel like they're falling apart when all actuality, the root cause of their pain is something very, very simple. And we spoke about this earlier of like, when we were speaking about the depression of going in every day and trying to treat depression when you're not removing the root cause. Ideally with lifestyle medicine, we're really finding the root cause. And sometimes it's as simple as just getting up in the morning and going for a 20 minute walk.

Samia (36:12)
Yes.

Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (36:29)
clearing your mind, rightful thinking, but getting that oxygen to your brain and to your limbs, and you completely change the outlook of your day. And ultimately that movement is helping to lubricate the organs, help with natural detoxification processes. And it gives us a shift in perspective so we can have a good platform to take on anything else that comes our way.

Samia (36:37)
Yes.

Yes, And walks are excellent. I love walking. I talk to my patients about walking all the time. I lead a chapter, a walking chapter here in my community of Walk with a Doc. I think it's wonderful, but I'm wondering what kinds of movement do you find most helpful or most effective for people who are dealing with chronic pain?

Dr. Haley Parker (37:12)
That's a great question. So I really would never underestimate stretching. And as much as I talk to my patients, like, well, do you stretch? They go, yeah, I stretch. And then I will see the stretching and it'll be like, it's not quite the right muscle group or the right planes of motion. Or stretching to them is I do a minute or two when I feel the pain versus this preventative aspect of really making sure that we're

We're helping all of those different antagonists and protagonists and compensating muscles wake up so that the lubrication that's to those joints, they're able to stand on two feet, resist gravity, and or live in whatever lifestyle that they live in. So I know for us here in the city, we're either sitting in traffic, sitting at desks, you no matter how much we move or stretch, like our bodies are starting to create a new kind of,

Samia (37:43)
Yes.

Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (38:04)
of positioning and so really stretch and open up and to open up our chest, open up our arms. Our bodies work much more functionally when things pathways are open. So stretching is really important and then it doesn't have to be high intensity but gentle movement, whether it's walking like we just spoke about or.

Samia (38:05)
Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (38:23)
I love aerobic type exercises for people who are in chronic pain. Not only do you get resistance from all different directions, but it's very lightweight so that you're not putting extra pressure on joints that may be in pain. With exercise, there's an adaptability. So you can always make those exercises harder and graduate to another level of adding maybe hand weights or something like that. But ultimately, if you're just moving, your body is going to be able to like

Samia (38:45)
Yeah.

Dr. Haley Parker (38:49)
piece together the puzzle.

Samia (38:51)
Wonderful. I'm wondering if you can think of any, if you'd be able to share maybe a moment that you had with within your clinical work where maybe for a patient movement or acupuncture or integrative care truly transformed somebody's quality of life. I'm sure you have a ton of those, but if there's one that maybe sticks out in your mind that you'd want to share with us.

Dr. Haley Parker (39:13)
You know, the first one that popped into my head, this was a few years back in a different clinical setting. And I had this, I was actually working on cruise ships at the time. And so I would meet such incredible people from all over the world. And this really cranky man came in with his wife. And it was almost like one of those scenes where the wife is dragging him in because, and she's like frustrated with him. he was a veteran and he was amputated from the knee down.

He just, he was just in chronic pain and he was cranky, he was rude, he was, you know, snapping at her. He definitely was, you know, he wasn't the most friendliest to me. And she was like, bye Gully, you're gonna get acupuncture because it was one of those things where she's like, I want you to do this, you gotta do this. So anyway, he was on a cane and he was muted out as well, like just gray, gray behind the eyes. And so anyway, I'm treating him.

Samia (39:42)
Yeah.

Right?

Dr. Haley Parker (40:05)
I think I treated him two or three times. And for his third visit, maybe by the end of the week, he comes walking in whistling without his pain. And mind you, he still had his prosthetic, but he tells me he's like, he stopped a lot of his pain meds. His phantom pain had diminished. He was able to get a good night's sleep. But what was even more amazing was as he was...

Samia (40:14)
⁓

Dr. Haley Parker (40:29)
in the treatment room cooking with his needles in, his wife came to my office and I run into her outside of the treatment room and she has tears in her eyes. I might cry about it, but she goes.

Samia (40:34)
Yes.

Hooray!

Dr. Haley Parker (40:42)
Thank you for bringing my husband back to me.

Samia (40:44)
⁓ that's so beautiful. That's amazing. And as you were telling the story of him coming in and the way he was being rude and resistant and, and I just imagine him having so much fear around this and that's his protective mechanism, right? Yeah.

Dr. Haley Parker (40:59)
much fear but also

just feeling misled by the medical system that pain pills were going to take away his pain or you know just the betrayal of you go maybe to serve your country and here you come back crippled and now even you know like you had spoken to earlier your pain starts to spill into your relationships your sleep you hadn't gotten a good night's sleep in for for years and you know along with that you can consider how

Samia (41:03)
Yes.

Right.

Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (41:25)
pain meds or just medications can affect the stomach and digestive issues and the whole host of things. every person's evolution of their problem will take on a bit of a different form. But for this woman to say, I didn't just help her husband, I helped her. And how pain can affect more than just that person. It affects everyone in our immediate circle in our community. moments like that of where

Samia (41:28)
Yeah.

Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (41:50)
didn't know this was going to be my calling and that there's a reason behind it and that every person, even if they're not in the medicine, has an ability to help somebody and help others. And that just they couldn't then go on to live their life, you know?

Samia (42:05)
Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (42:05)
That's

still gonna include taxes and walking the dog in the snow. The things that we don't always wanna do, but at least there was an element of they weren't doing it alone and she wasn't feeling like the divide between her and her husband was growing and variables were out of their control. And it was such a powerful moment for me where it was not me, it was the medicine and that someone was willing to try it and how it could just start peeling back the layers.

Samia (42:09)
Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes.

Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (42:34)
of the condition and their body could find a way to bloom again. It was really so impressive to see and it was so awesome for me to be able to be a part of that journey.

Samia (42:38)
Yes.

I can imagine. That's such a beautiful story. I, you know, if I think about this gentleman, I think about maybe how many times he got his hopes up that some treatment was going to work and then it didn't work. Right. And so after a while you get tired of getting your hopes up and, maybe that was the thing too, that his wife was pushing him to do this. And he's like, I don't even want to get my hopes up. Cause I know this isn't going to work. You know, you just assume nothing's going to work anymore.

and then to have something that actually worked. It's beautiful.

Dr. Haley Parker (43:15)
The cynicism can grow really strong because you just don't want to be let down anymore. And I could even relate in my own personal health journey. Sometimes someone would tell me, well, just stretch. And it was like, my back is so seized up that if I tried to stretch, I can't even stretch. If I tried to stretch, it almost seizes up more. Or like someone says to me, just get a good night's sleep. It'll all look better in the morning. And it's like, I can't even go to sleep and get comfortable.

Samia (43:18)
Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Dr. Haley Parker (43:41)
go to sleep. And so it starts to feel like a cruel game of, it's so easy. Everyone has it so simple. And then we get into these downward spirals of like thinking, you know, there's nothing out there that can help me or I can't even help myself. And that's a very defeating thing to where you don't even have the power to make changes in your life. You're willing to get better. Anywhere you turn, no one can help you. And I find that that is

Samia (43:57)
Yes.

Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (44:08)
common in the healthcare community that we're still human as well. And so a lot of my patients are also healthcare providers who are still trying to keep themselves going because they sit with patients and it's a very heavy environment sometimes where they're all fight or flight and stress if they work in the ER or something like that and they're taking on other people. And so how can they continue to support themselves so that

Samia (44:16)
Okay.

Yes.

Yes.

Yeah.

Dr. Haley Parker (44:35)
whether it's mentally, emotionally or physically, they're able to lift the next patient or they're able to help get that on their knees and do the ⁓ PT stretching with their patient. How can we continue to support ourselves to keep doing what our life is calling us to do?

Samia (44:40)
Yes.

Yes, absolutely. And I think it can be a very lonely place too. Like you were saying when somebody says, just get a good night's sleep or just stretch and you feel like nobody can understand and nobody really nobody understands what you're going through and nobody can give you a hand. And so it starts to feel like a really lonely place. But, you know, I think people who continue to try to find something

it just shows the resilience that we have as human beings, And I often hear about resilience, about it being built and not born. So how do you see this as far as like acupuncture and breath and daily wellness practices building that resilience in people? How do you see that happening in your patients as well?

Dr. Haley Parker (45:33)
That is probably the bonus to coming in for treatment ⁓ because it's a very empowering medicine. When you're giving your patients tools to help themselves, sometimes it is just one treatment that suddenly connects all the dots and allows them to get to yoga class to where they can stretch out their back spasm. Sometimes it is just

Samia (45:39)
Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (46:00)
holding a space for them where they can finally feel safe to feel and cry. And then they can move through the grief process and then they can start to pick themselves back up and go to work or, you know, do the, take the next step forward. And...

Samia (46:15)
Yeah.

Dr. Haley Parker (46:17)
With that, we all go through these moments of like standstill or stalling and we can call them lessons in life. can call them, you know, we can call them, we can name them many things. And there are many authors out there that have written amazing articles and books on ⁓ explaining the human journey. But when we're working in the medicine that we are, know, whether lifestyle, agriculture, educating our patients of how they can work to better help themselves or give them ideas. Because as practitioners, we see the whole spectrum.

Samia (46:23)
Yeah

Yes.

Yeah.

Dr. Haley Parker (46:46)
of people

who are coming in, whether it's, know, amputated legs or whether it's like, have sciatic pain, you know, like, you thinking you have a leg to have sciatic And I joked about it, but it's like, you know, we see this whole spectrum of, you know, and even taking it further, you know, a pro athlete looking to like have a personal record first and yet we have to live in that moment with them and we're there to help them through that part of their journey. And so when we're there and we're helping to support them,

Samia (46:50)
Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (47:12)
It's in that moment, but it's also to keep them able to take what they've learned and the variables that they have to their disposal to be able to apply to their life.

Samia (47:22)
You're giving them the skills or the tools that they're going to keep in their toolbox. anything like this happens again, they know how to handle it.

Dr. Haley Parker (47:30)
Yeah, people often ask me like, well, what's better acupuncture massage, chiropractic or PT? And it's like, we're all in the integrative wheel. sometimes you're going to need to align the structural system so that the pinched nerve is addressed at the root of the problem. Sometimes we're going to need to help relax out the muscles and tell the nervous system not to guard and protect so that we don't pull the bones right back out of place, right? Sometimes we'll need rehab to balance out imbalanced muscles. You know, it's like,

Samia (47:38)
Yeah.

Yes.

Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (47:58)
We have to really, this is through the intake process, we have to really get to understanding the bigger picture of what's going on. It's not a one size fits all. And then different patients are gonna be at different stages of their journey of where we can apply different tools or we can work with different parts of ⁓ the healing journey to be able to best help them. And that's where we have great job security is that no matter who we're working with, there's always a level of we can,

Samia (48:08)
Right.

Dr. Haley Parker (48:26)
tailor them more. Even when I have someone graduate from treatment planning and they've gotten over their injuries, they're feeling great, oftentimes patients still choose to come in once a month for maintenance or seasonally just to prevent illness from coming back in. Obviously if they take a fall or something happens, they know to call me and come back in. But the idea of really teaching someone that sickness doesn't have to be a theme.

Samia (48:37)
Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (48:52)
illness doesn't have to be like the baseline. Rather, it can be like optimization or what would you do if you were so well? And so oftentimes we're consumed with something stressful. We're consumed with something that pains us. And we wouldn't even be able to think what that would look like for us. Like we'd go hike the green canyon. We'd go and write a book or if you had unlimited energy, what would you do? I mean, I couldn't tell you.

Samia (49:02)
I'm here.

Yeah. Great.

Right? I know. I can't

even begin to think of all the things I'd want to do.

Dr. Haley Parker (49:21)
That

also comes into the definition of health. I find it's really relative to the person I'm talking to. For an 80-year-old mature grandmother, she wants to be able to go to knitting club and be able to get on the ground with her grandkids at Christmas time. For the pro athlete, like I said, they want to be able to perform throughout the season and not get broken down or have injuries.

Samia (49:40)
Thank

Dr. Haley Parker (49:47)
they probably want personal records are in their realm of possibilities. For the average person, we wanna be able to travel to and from work and not have tech neck, or we wanna be able to get to our workout class in the afternoon and be able to go from sitting all day to bending. my female patients were looking to help regulate hormones so the body's natural process can.

Samia (49:52)
Right.

Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (50:12)
have conception and bring a new baby into the world. It depends on what that person's goal is. And health is not just absence of sickness. It's being able to do those things you wanna do and create the quality of life you wanna create.

Samia (50:15)
Yeah.

when you were talking about, when people ask, is acupuncture better or is chiropractic care better? It reminds me of like when I talk about self care, you know, a lot of people say, ⁓ yeah, I've been really focused on self care. I've been taking care of my diet and I've been exercising and

And then I have to remind them that's just a physical aspect of self care, right? There's so many parts to, if it was a pie chart, There's so many pie slices to our life, And so, you know, what does self care look like in the family realm? And what does self care look like in your intellectual realm and in your spiritual realm, right? So really taking all that into consideration. But I think, you know,

People are so busy nowadays and stress is high and burnout is high And I'm wondering from an integrative perspective, what do you think is actually happening in the body when stress goes unmanaged for so long?

Dr. Haley Parker (51:24)
So, that's a really good question. In very simple terms of how I explain it to someone, our nervous system, like 90 % of our nervous system is operating on autopilot. Like we think we're just these high elevated beings that's planning our day and thinking what we're gonna have on.

Samia (51:26)
I know that's a huge question.

Dr. Haley Parker (51:45)
our holiday menu when family comes to visit, but actually, so much is going on and ticking to just help remember to create tears in our eyes and lubricate our eyes or breathe and release some digestive juices to help our bodies metabolize. And so all of this is going on and this automatic autonomic nervous system, have a rest and digest or we have a fight or flight. And that fight or flight is that sympathetic nervous system. And many things in our modern world

Samia (52:01)
Yeah.

Dr. Haley Parker (52:14)
We're still archaically wired to be like our ancestors 40,000 years ago. In our modern world, we cannot differentiate a stressor of being a good stressor and a not so good stressor. So for instance, you can get a text from somebody and that stress can just like, that anticipation can startle you. Whereas like, our ancestors were trying to like dodge a predator or something like that. As we're nomadically like roaming to...

Samia (52:32)
Yeah.

Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (52:39)
to find our next camp. So ultimately, when people are under that stress response for such extended periods of time, your body cannot do the other thing, which is rest and digest. And rest and digest, rest is where our body can heal. So ultimately what ends up happening is we get bombarded with so many toxins and impurities, our body becomes much more inflamed and toxic.

Samia (52:41)
Yes.

Yeah.

Dr. Haley Parker (53:03)
Digestion

shuts down, so we have a backlog of debris. Ultimately, that's going to affect all of our other systems, including our skin and that beautiful glow that we should be having. You can see that people sometimes then go on to not sleep, so then you don't have energy, and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy in cycle. Their hair can start falling out. You start to see more fine lines and wrinkles. So it starts to create.

Samia (53:13)
Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (53:28)
this deconstruction versus reconstruction where you would get in the healing, the rest and digest. And like you had said before, that's more than the physical, it's mental, emotional and spiritual. It's really hard to have a positive attitude when you're exhausted. It's really hard to be mature and nice and have great communication with your boss when you're irritable. again, these are things in which we can see these signs, but then what do we do about them? And ideally,

Samia (53:43)
Yes, absolutely.

Thank

Yeah.

Yeah.

Dr. Haley Parker (53:57)
it's finding the root of where these stressors are coming from and trying to bring us down out of that fight or flight into that therapeutic window. We call it the window of tolerance where our body is neither hypo aroused or hyper aroused and our body knows how to heal itself in that space where the natural nervous system flows can turn on and off and you can get a good night's sleep and be able to rest and have the most optimal cellular healing.

Samia (54:10)
Yes.

Got it. Are there any specific red flags that you wish people would notice earlier on that just tell them like, hey, you're headed toward this place of really high stress or burnout?

Dr. Haley Parker (54:34)
I do. I think sometimes as practitioners, we need to be mirrors to people. And I mean, this is also something that's a little delicate to discuss, but even to our friends. And that's a very fine line of like, I'm a practitioner and I'm a professional, but I'm also somebody that I, I see these signs in my family members and the dearest people that I love. And I often see people leaning so much into coping mechanisms.

Samia (54:38)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Dr. Haley Parker (54:58)
and the coping mechanisms can be very innocuous at first. know, ⁓ exercise bulimia, like where they're working out so hardcore every single day and it's like, but they're running from the real stressor or people lean a lot into, you know, smoking, substances, right? Like alcohol, smoking. We have healthy addictions, like I said, relatively exercise is healthy, but not if it's an extreme.

Samia (55:01)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Yes.

Yeah.

Dr. Haley Parker (55:23)
how to notice these signs and to be able to ask them, are you okay? Or just get them to be aware of it because one, they might not consciously be aware that they're so stressed out and trying to cope. Or secondly, they might not necessarily realize that it's recognizable and have someone to talk to. And I think that that's something that all of us, even as non-practitioners, can recognize in our friends. And it's not a judgment.

Samia (55:33)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Dr. Haley Parker (55:50)
It's not a, I've noticed you've been drinking more. That's kind of sensitive, right? It's a more of a, hey, have you been more stressed? How are you? That's usually a good way to open the door. And it's normal to have coping mechanisms, right? We do that. I crutch on caffeine most days of the week, but it's a matter of, it in balance? Are you recognizing what you're doing? Are you willing to take on the repercussions of this?

Samia (55:52)
Right.

Yes. Yes.

Yeah.

Dr. Haley Parker (56:16)
mechanisms that are unchecked can go on to lead to further destruction and that can go on to lead to further unhealthy patterning. And ultimately that's going further away from balance. ⁓ And as we do, we then start to create stories around these things. And so we then get into these mental webs of self-protection and then it becomes destructive to relationships and even ourselves, it can become self-sabotage. So if we're really practicing a healthy lifestyle, listening to these signs,

Samia (56:21)
Yeah.

in.

Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (56:43)
and cues

and symptoms that are whispering at first to just make sure that you're okay with it. Because of course, around the holidays, we are definitely gonna eat more sweets. We're probably definitely gonna have more holiday parties and drink more alcohol. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the unchecked extremism, which is really the coping mechanism that doesn't have an end unless we really address the root of the issue.

Samia (56:48)
Yeah.

Yes, absolutely. How about when a patient comes to you and you can tell they're under a lot of stress or they're burned out? How do you begin to work with them? What is that first session or even that first month of healing usually look like?

Dr. Haley Parker (57:24)
Well, I congratulate them that they've taken a step to come in and see me because that's why they're here. And sometimes for people, they'll give themselves such a hard time that they don't have a chance to go get their hair cut or they don't, you know, they can't come in for a treatment. and I'm even that way sometimes I'm a practitioner and sometimes I feel so hypocritical of like, when's the last time I laid down on the bed and got a treat. Right. But when you're running a business and you're

Samia (57:28)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yes

Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (57:49)
you're teaching people, like your schedule can get so full and it happens before you know it. And then, you know, you have people that you love and they're a priority too, right? Or the dog can get walked or, know, whatever it is. So I'm trying to tell them, don't be so hard on ourselves. We're human and expand out that timeframe of like, you're here now and you're doing so much for yourself that you're just willing to support yourself. ⁓ And then we work with the patient because

Samia (57:59)
Yes. Right.

Yes.

Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (58:16)
when they're burnout, sometimes adding more things in, even if it's good for them, like waking up for a 6 a.m. yoga class, not gonna be good for them. Rather, sleeping and having a slower morning where they're not getting pulled in multiple directions or on that flight is maybe what they need at that stage. And they can work towards getting to a point where they go to yoga two or three times a week, and it's able to become a part of their lifestyle regimen. But to not give themselves so much pressure that they need to be perfect,

Samia (58:37)
Yeah.

Dr. Haley Parker (58:44)
And it's like, what standard are you operating in? ⁓ It's easy to compare to somebody, but they don't necessarily have the same variables that you do in your life or at this certain stage of your life. And to have more compassion that you're in the process and coming into that room, you're already doing so much for yourself. When I'm working with that patient, then I provide them that space to relax. I help them see how far they've already come. And then I try to give them a plan for.

Samia (58:44)
Yes.

right.

Dr. Haley Parker (59:11)
realistic, smart goals, attainable smart goals that they can implement without creating more stress or pressure or pulling them backwards in their holistic,

Samia (59:14)
Yes.

I think it's so important for people to have that self-compassion because we can be our harshest critics. We can be, you know, our worst enemy sometimes. we would treat

⁓ our best friend or our family member or even sometimes a stranger on the street better than we sometimes treat ourselves. And so just being able to give that love to ourselves again.

Dr. Haley Parker (59:38)
Totally. Totally.

We know too that our husbands,

our wives, our parents, our kids, they get the worst of us sometimes. And it's because we love them. that just sounds so weird. we love you. So I'm going to be so mean to you. I don't have to put a mask on, right? I find that even in the health care space, for any health care providers who are listening, it's like,

Samia (59:48)
They do.

You

Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (1:00:07)
That means us too in what we do because we give so much and it is a big part of our identity to be of service to others. And yet we would tell our patients things that we need to hear. And so I giggle in the treatment room because I'm telling my patients and I giggle and I have to stop myself and I have to be like, Hey, you know what? think God just made me tell you that, but really to tell myself and that humanness of we're all in this together and we're all

Samia (1:00:09)
Yes.

Great.

Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (1:00:34)
trying to figure it out and no one has figured it out. And guess what? I don't think anyone ever will figure it out. It's a matter of us being able to practice balancing because balance is in motion. You're never just going to suddenly reach balance and stay there, right? Like it's a matter of always navigating the next thing and the next thing. I don't know about you, but about the time I pass a test in life and I'm like, oh, I finally learned a little bit of patience, right?

Samia (1:00:40)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

Dr. Haley Parker (1:01:02)
there's another test that comes right after that. So to continue to be mindful and practice these elements because we're all in a journey and we're here to help them.

Samia (1:01:03)
Yes.

sometimes patients tell me, I hate that you have to keep reminding me this because I should know this and I tell them, I need to be reminded to like, I'm over here reminding you but but don't worry, somebody's reminding me to do these things too, because we do we forget we get busy with life, you know, stress, everything happens and, we just forget to do the things that maybe feel like common sense or the things that we've known all along.

but sometimes it just takes a little reminder or a little something that can just bring it to our attention. It's like, yeah, I forgot that I can take a deep breath or I forgot that I can just step outside for a moment or that I can just take a walk around the block. I don't have to go to the gym for an hour and a half. I could just do a walk around the block and then I'll feel better too. So it's those little things.

Dr. Haley Parker (1:01:59)
Sometimes

I have to remind myself of that. I forget the exact standard, but it's like you're supposed to raise your heart 20 minutes, three times a week for health. And it's like this idea that we're supposed to go to the gym every day and we're supposed to actually go to a physical location. again, our ancestors, they were working, they were walking. There wasn't this need for this, like, know,

Samia (1:02:11)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Dr. Haley Parker (1:02:26)
excelling of like lifting a weight or like sprinting or, but we live in a world where this is a huge entertainment and a huge pastime and it's great, a great benefit to our health. But like that standard and remember that, you know, why are we doing this and getting into even your own personal why of why are we putting stress on ourselves? Well, we don't want to let ourselves down or like I need the gym because it's my, I need my schedule and I need my control or you know, whatever it is.

Samia (1:02:48)
you

Dr. Haley Parker (1:02:54)
that we are doing. I am, I also think that like something you had just said is like never underestimate the power of an apology because sometimes we are in our heads or sometimes we're very distracted with like a presentation we have or a big project deadline or something like that. And we can be really mean on ourselves or we can be a coworker could get not so nice of a side of us. And even if it doesn't need to be addressed sometimes just going up to that person saying

Samia (1:03:02)
Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (1:03:20)
Hey, I'm sorry if something came across short. Like I'm very overwhelmed right now and I just wanted you to know that that was unfair to take that out on you. You know, the amount of respect that's giving in that way, forgiving ourselves for being our cool, like, because we're human. many a time, have to remember that life is a never ending

Samia (1:03:29)
Yeah.

Yes.

We are. ⁓

Dr. Haley Parker (1:03:47)
Rubik's Cube. ⁓

Samia (1:03:48)
Yes, yes,

absolutely. Yeah, and I know that we could keep talking about this for hours because you and I speak the same kind of language, but I want to shift our conversation over a little bit because you also do such important work preparing students and bringing integrative medicine into the community. And so I want to hear from you. Why is early education for both students and for the public so essential?

Dr. Haley Parker (1:04:15)
Well, because this is a lifestyle medicine, often we forget that, you know, it should be preventative care rather than like think to go to an acupuncturist when you're already ill or have damage. I mean, we can intervene at any stage of health, but the best kind of patients are the ones that want to stay well, right? And, you know, oftentimes the youth are the ones who are always into the...

Samia (1:04:22)
Yeah.

Dr. Haley Parker (1:04:40)
They're very forward thinking, right? Like they're like, well, we want to be basketball players when we grow up or we want to like, say youth is wasted on the young and yet they're the ones, they're so innovative and they are so open. Everything's new to them. So they're willing to try something or they're not, they haven't been taught how to be scared. so teaching people and patient education early on helps them know that this is a tool that they could use in their health.

Samia (1:04:50)
Right.

Yeah.

Dr. Haley Parker (1:05:04)
Ultimately,

for building the next generation of practitioner, potentially we can inspire a future practitioner who really understands both the Eastern and the Western medical world and how they marry so beautifully. But patient education is ultimately how we get to work together with the community and help them to help someone else, whether it's by referral or whether it's by...

Samia (1:05:22)
Yeah.

Dr. Haley Parker (1:05:26)
teaching them how to live a better lifestyle because ultimately they can be an example for someone else and they could raise their family in taking better care of themselves because as we see our country, we spend so much on healthcare and yet we continue to have these chronic illnesses and become sicker and sicker and sicker and that's a huge financial burden. Not everyone has the luxury of health insurance or retirement and

Samia (1:05:51)
Yeah.

Dr. Haley Parker (1:05:53)
we have to continue to get up in the morning and go to work and be a part of society. And if we're not able to take care of ourselves and others, then it gets very difficult and we become more of a burden on someone else. So ultimately remembering that, you know, the education that there are these tools out there and then how to use these tools will not only help yourself, but ideally build a much better future for our world.

Samia (1:06:15)
Yeah, and everybody in your

world whose life you touch, right? Because if people don't have to worry about you, then you're giving them that gift. You know, when you get older.

Dr. Haley Parker (1:06:24)
Yeah,

it's, we say here at our school health is wealth. And ⁓ there is a story of, know, what does a healthy person want? And it's like, well, that's it. We want a thousand things. We want to go to Paris. We want to, you know, throw a surprise party. We want to ⁓ eat our favorite, you know, macaroni and cheese. We want to do all these things. What does a sick person want? Well, a sick person wants one thing and that's to be well.

Samia (1:06:29)
Yes.

Good.

Yeah.

Dr. Haley Parker (1:06:51)
And we take it for

granted. We take health for granted. And ultimately, when you do have a devastating injury or you do have a life altering diagnosis, you just think all of a sudden how like, wow, life is finite. Life is so precious. And what are we doing with

Samia (1:07:05)
Yes.

Yes, I know that you were an athlete and that's how you initially got started with this. I know that people come across their field or their career in different ways. But I'm wondering, since you were an athlete, and I know you talked a little bit about working with different types of people, all the way from

kids to adults and when you work with athletes, is there something that you do differently? What does that look like? How do you tailor your work toward athletes?

Dr. Haley Parker (1:07:37)
Athletes are another unique breed. have incredible vision and discipline. They tend to be highly competitive and on the extreme side of the spectrum because of their mental acuity and being able to wake up early for practices and determined to keep their mind body centered in whatever performance they'll be in.

Samia (1:07:53)
.

Dr. Haley Parker (1:07:59)
They're fun because you're using like a, you're almost like 5 % of your skills as a practitioner of working with somebody who already probably eats well, does their exercise. They're already aware of the self-care recovery modalities. And so you're really fine tuning them. my tools that I use, I get to be more of an augmentation to an already really solid

Samia (1:08:08)
Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (1:08:24)
healthcare program, which helps give them that competitive edge. And so that competitive edge can be relative to the amateur athlete or the casual pickleball athlete. know, that competitive edge of like, we're helping fine tune you to take your pre-existing program and just, and kick it up a notch and make sure that your body understands and is able to comprehend.

Samia (1:08:25)
Yeah.

Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (1:08:49)
all of the things you're doing for it. So come the time you want to turn on the turbo charge and you know, do your performance. You have that there as a resource and most often athletes are preventative because they it's a high competition, you know, and then and then they understand what it is to be out for a season because they just didn't stretch and they pulled an ankle and or stretch, sprained an ankle and then it takes way longer than we think.

Samia (1:08:53)
Yes.

Yes.

Yeah.

Dr. Haley Parker (1:09:16)
to fully recover and get cleared to get back into the game. when you have a stallion and they want to run, it's like, well, you got to still for a little bit longer. That can be very mentally difficult as well. keeping them in the game and keeping them in motion is a big part. And it kind of goes back full circle to how we began our discussion today.

Samia (1:09:24)
Yeah.

Yes, I sometimes think in images and as you were talking and you talked about the the turbocharged I was thinking about Fast and the Furious and how they add the NOS to the car, right? But it's not just that because if the car weren't well maintained and have good tires and have, you know, fresh oil and so if you're not taking care of the car, it doesn't matter if you have the NOS that's not going to help. You need to

Make sure that the whole car is well maintained and then you can hit the NOS and win the race. So, yeah.

Dr. Haley Parker (1:10:02)
Right.

you said it perfectly with that analogy because it's an integration. I went to a NASCAR race a while back and like, you know, I'm not a NASCAR kind of person, but it was such an eye-opening experience because here I just thought about the race car driver, you know, but to be in those pits and to see the whole team and how you have like six people on a wheel to like change the bolts and how everyone has to work so efficiently together.

Samia (1:10:06)
Yes.

Thank

Yes.

Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (1:10:30)
to have that driver who's so talented, their one specific skill, be able to shave nanoseconds off the lap. It was so profound and eye-opening to me that, like the car, everything has to be so fine-tuned and work so well together. And with athletes across all sports, it's rarely just one person who's carrying the team. It's the teamwork that separates out.

Samia (1:10:38)
Yes.

Yeah.

Dr. Haley Parker (1:10:57)
who wins the championship because one person against five isn't gonna be as strong as five synergistically working together to have the competition turn out positively. But anyhow, I think that these are things that we sometimes also forget about ourselves and our health is you're not in it alone. It's not just you.

Samia (1:10:58)
Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yeah.

Dr. Haley Parker (1:11:17)
Right? You have teams of people out there. You have your friends who want to help support you. You are a supporter to your friends and family. And you have, you know, all of these other variables that are there to either help lift you up or sometimes wear you down. So being aware of those variables and your team out there can help you live the best version of your life that you're able to access.

Samia (1:11:17)
Right.

Yes, If somebody who's listening now feels overwhelmed or in pain or burnt out or just even unsure where to start, what would be one small,

shift that you believe can create that momentum for them?

Dr. Haley Parker (1:11:53)
Take a deep breath. And as annoying as that sounds, oxygen really helps get to our brain and we can shift our perception in that way. After you take that deep breath, if you're anywhere near one of our three campus locations, up Ridge Hill, New Jersey, Duluth, Georgia, or here in Tyson's Corner, Virginia, call our office and schedule an appointment. We have a team care clinic or we have a private wing.

Samia (1:11:57)
Yeah. ⁓

Dr. Haley Parker (1:12:18)
with different levels of practitioners to help meet your needs and come in and try for yourself. It's kind of hard to relax for your very first time, but I can assure you that that process of trying something new will make you feel like you did something for yourself and it'll give you a shift in perspective, which sometimes that shift is all you need to be able to get your wheels turning again and be able to problem solve. Oxygen also tends to do that. ⁓

Samia (1:12:24)
Yes.

Yeah.

Yes.

Dr. Haley Parker (1:12:45)
I'm sure there's a really hyperbaric needle nap of where you can start to breathe a bit deeper and give yourself just a bit of a pause so your brain and your body can catch up to each other and you're able to think clearer.

Samia (1:12:54)
thank you for that. you mentioned your clinics, if people want to learn more about the work that you do, or if they if they are interested in East Asian medicine, maybe for themselves, but also to learn it so that they can provide those services to somebody else. What would be the best way to to find out more about the work that you do?

Dr. Haley Parker (1:13:16)
So start with our website, ⁓ particularly if you're interested in exploring what it takes to walk the journey and become an acupuncturist in East Asian Medical Practitioner. VUIM.edu is the website for our university. VUIMclinic.com is a great way to look into more about the articles we write, our blogs. There's also all the different media platforms. If you search VUIM, you'll find us.

Then there's always a great Google search that you can do to start to ask your specific questions. ChatGPT is pretty smart and he can help us like iron things down. And then as you go to a practitioner, there's really no substitute for going to a practitioner and learning your individual specifics because as broad and as general as we can give information, the beauty of this medicine is it's meant to be practiced individually and supporting you.

Samia (1:14:09)
Yeah.

Dr. Haley Parker (1:14:10)
And we can talk about acupuncture and lifestyle medicine all day long, but until you start implementing it, your body's not beginning that healing response. And so ultimately trying it for yourself, you can take then the next step of how to integrate it into your practice.

Samia (1:14:24)
Wonderful. Haley, thank you so much for this rich and grounding conversation. Your work, your depth, your compassion, your empowerment, your love of this lifestyle medicine and alternative medicine is just so inspiring, to me and to all of us listening. And I really appreciate you taking the time to be on the show with us today.

Dr. Haley Parker (1:14:25)
Thank

Thank you so much for having me.

Samia (1:14:54)
Thank you so much for tuning in to Thursday Tea with Sami, your sip of wellness and mental health. I hope that today's episode gave you a little inspiration in your journey. Remember, your journey to wellness starts here. I would love to hear from you. Drop me a comment letting me know how you liked this episode or what topics you want to hear more about. Until next time, stay well and keep being your best.