The Connection Prescription: How Relationships Shape Your Health, Sleep, and Longevity

Loneliness has been compared to smoking 15 cigarettes a day in terms of its health impact — and yet we rarely think of our relationships as part of our health routine. In this episode, I sit down with Dr. Lauren Messina, couple and family therapist and co-owner of Evergrow Therapy and Wellness Collective, to explore why connection is one of the six pillars of lifestyle medicine and how it shapes everything from our physical health to our sense of purpose.

Lauren shares her journey from family science research to working with military service members on "social fitness," and how that experience shaped her current work supporting new parents through the relational side of the transition to parenthood.

In this conversation, we cover:

• Why the quality of your relationships at 50 can predict your long-term health better than your cholesterol levels
• How sleep deprivation impacts empathy and communication in relationships (and what to do about it)
• The biggest relational challenges new parents face — and why we were never meant to parent in isolation
• Practical communication shifts, including "making the covert overt" and the power of simply saying "I love you"
• Why 15 minutes of child-led play a day can transform your parent-child connection
• The difference between spirituality and religion, and how social connection fuels our spiritual core
• How connection intersects with the other pillars of lifestyle medicine — nutrition, movement, sleep, and stress management
• Simple, realistic ways busy parents can build community and ask for support

Grab your tea and settle in for a conversation full of both heart and science.

Connect with Dr. Lauren Messina:

• Website: evergrowtherapycollective.com
• Personal site: laurenmessina.com
• Instagram: @evergrow_collective
• Military/HPRC resources: hprc-online.org

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:34

And uh, you know, there was another stat that the the past Surgeon General put out there about the, you know, comparing uh loneliness, right? So feeling lonely as being equivalent to the health deficits that a person experiences by smoking like something like I think it's 10 or 15 cigarettes a day, right? So if you feel lonely, damaging your health just as much as or more than smoking cigarettes.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Hi everyone, and welcome to Thursday Tea with Sammy, your sip of wellness and mental health. I'm Dr. Sammy Estrada, and I'm so glad that you're here. Each week we dive into practical feel-good strategies to help you live healthier, happier, and more connected lives. Quick disclaimer: this podcast is for educational purposes only, and it isn't a replacement for medical or mental health care. Alright, grab your tea and let's get to it. Hey everyone, and welcome back to Thursday Tea with Sammy, your sip of wellness and mental health. Today we're diving into a topic that touches every part of our lives, our relationships, our sense of connection, and how these shape our health and our well-being. I'm so excited to be joined by Dr. Lauren Messina. Dr. Messina is a couple and family therapist and co-owner of Evergrowth Therapy and Wellness Collective in Maryland. She supports new and growing families through virtual and in-person therapy, through health and well-being coaching, and through parenting education. Her work centers on the relational side of parenthood, helping new parents navigate shifting relationship dynamics, build a stronger sense of identity in this new face, break intergenerational patterns, and begin their parenting journey with confidence. She also supports families beyond the pregnancy and postpartum stages, including parents of young children and families seeking therapeutic support for their children as they grow. Lauren, welcome to the show. I'm so glad that you're here today. Yes, thank you so much for having me. I'm so delighted to share this time and space with you. Oh, thank you. Me too. I'm so excited to talk about this, especially connection. It's such an important topic. But to start us off, can you share a little bit about your professional journey, your work as a family therapist, and how you found your way into lifestyle medicine?

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Yeah, absolutely. You know, like I said, thanks so much for having me. So, as you mentioned, I'm trained as a couple and family therapist, which is a smaller discipline within the mental health field, really focused on relationships and social connection and how that contributes to mental health and well-being. So I did my training at the University of Maryland in College Park. And then, you know, I was originally from New York. I moved down here to go to grad school and then stayed in Maryland and have been here for almost 20 years. In the department there, uh, after I did my master's degree in couple and family therapy, I got my doctoral degree in family science, which is basically the study of families, right? So it's a really interdisciplinary field looking at family relationships and all the different components that help keep them strong and healthy. Those programs were housed in the School of Public Health at Maryland. So that was sort of the overarching umbrella was health and well-being as well, right? Like how does family relationships impact the health of individuals? So that's, you know, academically where I started. Um, and then from there, yeah, I went on to practice clinically with my couple and family therapy license in in private practice settings. And then I also started working on a health education program that was actually supporting the military. Um, and so I was part of a really interdisciplinary team looking at the health and performance of service members and how we could create health education materials for them that would improve their well-being and their performance. So my lane was covering what they called social fitness, right? Social well-being, social connection. And then I was like working alongside of a dietitian and an exercise scientist and other folks in the mental health field who had background in performance psychology and positive psychology. And uh we had some folks who were focused on spirituality and spiritual fitness. And so we were this, again, this really interdisciplinary team looking at how we could create resources in all of those areas and then the intersection of them. And that's how I got introduced to lifestyle medicine. You know, I was living it right in working in this multifunctional team. And it really, you know, began broadening my own perspective, having come into the mental health field from the relationship lane, um, thinking about, well, you know, what else, what else matters here, right? Like what else is contributing to uh relationship success? And uh I, you know, began to learn more about working alongside my colleagues there, you know, again, about the intersections of how what we eat and if we're sleeping and how that can impact a person's capacity to show up in their relationships and in really you know meaningful ways. Um, so lifestyle medicine kind of became, you know, it's it was parallel to the model that we were working in, and it be it's the sort of analogous um structure to the what the military calls total force fitness, which is their interdisciplinary framework for health and well-being that looks at, you know, sleep and mental fitness, social connections, spirituality, nutrition, um, and a couple of other areas. So I was able to get um some funding to go through the training in lifestyle medicine, and it um really just helped me broaden my understanding of again the those those areas and the intersection of them. Yeah. So that was my introduction. And then yeah, it's it's it's been a great journey. And then I, you know, kind of a circle back around to figure out, okay, well, now that I have all this, you know, insight into the the interdisciplinary nature of of of what makes health and well, how do I bring that back into my clinical work? Because I've continued to practice clinically and and um and then in more recent years, like you mentioned, focused more on the transition to parenthood, which is an incredibly stressful time. During that transition, how can we help um new parents find a find their version of thriving by using the pillars of lifestyle medicine?

SPEAKER_00 7:34

Got it. Wow, that's amazing. And I love hearing your story because it really emphasizes the importance of that interdisciplinary care and how when we look at a person as a whole, we get a much better picture. I was just talking to somebody um in another podcast episode about how psychology used to be a lot more siloed. You know, it was just about psychology and the way that we think. But nowadays we're really making that shift and really recognizing that you can't separate the mind and the body and that, you know, all those things are so important. And I know with lifestyle medicine that there's six pillars, and one of those pillars is connection. So I'm kind of curious what drew you specifically to that pillar of connection and why do you see it as so central to health and well-being?

SPEAKER_01 8:27

Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, part of this is um, you know, a little of my my own experiences growing up, where, you know, I I worked a lot with kids in high school and in college, and I was always really just inherently interested in what helps kids be healthy, right? Like what helps kids be resilient, um, what helps kids grow up to be like well-adjusted adults, right? Yeah. Um, and so I had some um unique experiences, particularly I volunteered abroad in Costa Rica and I worked at a special education school there, and it was like the only special education school in the region. And so parents would drive hours to bring their children who had really significant delays and and physical disabilities to this school. And, you know, and they would get like an maybe like 30 to 60 minutes of education, right? And then they would have to work on the next kid. But the commitment that the parents showed to their children, right, in this dynamic of having such, you know, high needs and unique needs, and there not being many resources because this was the only special education school within like a you know, a several mile radius of this town that I was in. That experience just really, really struck me as like how integral and essential that that parenting relationship is. And, you know, and and I say that with some broadness in that it's not always biological, you know, mother, dad, and then it could be a caregiver. Um, but broadly just saying, you know, that parent-child relationship is just so foundational, right? To to that kiddo being able to grow up and to again be that that well-rounded, resilient adult. So I just I knew at that point that I needed to do something to help like build strong families, that it was the family that was like the secret sauce. Because if we could help kids grow up to be healthy adults, right, then like we'd have a good world. Like everything would be good, right? Like that was like my idealistic, you know, vision in my teens and twenties. Like that would be contributing to um, you know, making the world a better place. Um, and I still, I still really do, you know, hold on to those beliefs in many ways, but I know it's much more complex now. Um so, you know, so family therapy became um my focus at that point, right? Like if I could help families feel connected, then I'd be helping improve outcomes for kids. And so that's you know, where I started, and that's why I, you know, specifically pursued a couple of family therapy degree program, even though even those a smaller, again, discipline within mental health field. Um, but as I as I got deeper into the field, it just became even more like confirmed that social connections and social relationships are so integral to our health and well-being, especially through my, you know, training and and and experiences with lifestyle medicine and it being one of the pillars of of lifestyle medicine. And, you know, I I say that too because I think it's something that we don't always think about as an element of health. Always think about relationships as part of health, right? Yes. And so that is, you know, reading the research, right, and and knowing that it is, right? It's so, so, so much is was just, you know, very affirming for me that um this is a definitely a a place worthy of um, you know, my energy and and my efforts. And so, you know, we know from good research, right, and and we'll talk more about it, that like when relationships are are not there, right, when somebody's feeling lonely or when they are volatile, like that really, really impacts a person's well-being. Um, and on the flip side, like when it's going well, like that's just you know, so much room for positivity and growth and and it's you know, good um, good health and and good outcomes for individuals. So um, yeah, so it started really with this like desire to help figure out and contribute to what helps kids grow up to be good adults and just kind of grew from there.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

So interesting. And I know that you also work closely um not just with kids, but families and especially mothers, right, during their transition to parenthood. What have you found are some of the biggest relational challenges that you see during this particular season of life?

SPEAKER_01 13:10

Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, perinatal mental health is um, I think a growing field, but giving specific attention to, you know, mental health during the pregnancy and postpartum period is is relatively new, you know, like relatively. Um and from a relational perspective, I think that it's you know, it's always interesting to me to just like pause and and think about like, you know, us as a country, like we're a young country, right? Like we're, you know, we're we've only been around for 200 and something years, right? And just that like that means that like the changes families have experienced, like, we're we're still living through changes. And so I say that to say like the the challenges that moms and and new parents are are enduring today, it's different. It's different from what their parents went through. It's different from what their parents went through. This is a very like dynamic country. So, you know, what we see today with a lot of um relational concerns for new parents is um concerns about, you know, most families are dual-income families. Um, so there's concerns about how transitioning to parenthood is going to impact both members' careers, right? And how are we going to parent alongside of managing our careers requires a lot more negotiation, communication, right? Collaboration between the couple. Um, you know, to restructure and reorient your days because now you're also taking care of somebody else. So I think that's a big thing. Another big thing that happens is you mentioned, you know, intergenerational sort of trends, that there's uh a lot of reflection that can happen about the way that, you know, I was raised, right? Or the way that the new parent was raised, right? If they're deflecting, and then thinking about what was good about that and what wasn't so good, and what do I want to carry over, and what do I not want to carry over? How am I going to, you know, kind of leave some of the bad things in the past and better by my kids. So um I think, you know, parents come at different levels of awareness of that, right? Of knowledge of kind of what's what they experienced and what their ancestors experienced and how much they're still holding that. Um, but there's just such a beautiful opportunity, yeah, to make good transitions forward. Um you know, and and then, you know, if there were mental health struggles before pregnancy and postpartum, then, you know, then there's a likelihood that some of that might resurface. It could get more significant, like more severe. So depression and anxiety um certainly are very real concerns. And then relationally, you know, that's like a strain on the couple. You have this expectations that like becoming a parent is gonna be this like beautiful, magical, wonderful, joyful experience, right? That's no want you to believe, and it's just like not for a lot of people. It's hard.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

It can be really hard.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

Yeah, like mental health struggles or or not, right? Just like rescue is hard. Like it's we don't have paid leave for many people in this country, like there's just not systemic support. Um and we've transitioned as a society to think again about like the timeline of our country. Like most parenting happens in nuclear families, in single family homes. And that's not how we as a species have historically parented. We parent typically, like, you know, for eons, many, many thousands of years in groups, you know, with many people around us. And so there's enormous pressure on parents today because they're doing it all alone and they were never meant to do it all alone.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

Yes, exactly. Yeah. You know, I wonder about factors like sleep deprivation, because you know, obviously, as a new parent, your sleep is affected. And I know that when our sleep is affected, we are not at our best. How do factors like sleep deprivation, stress, even things like nutrition show up in family dynamics and communication?

SPEAKER_01 17:33

You know, yeah, you're hitting the nail on the head that like all of those things are especially during this like postpartum period, right? Like all of those things are a little haywire often, right? They're not happening with the with the consistency that hopefully we're able to establish in our typical routine. Um, but you're just, you know, you're you're on a different schedule with a with a newborn. And so, you know, sleep in particular, uh, one thing that I often talk about with folks is how, you know, when we when we don't get good sleep, how does that impact our relationships? Well, it impacts, you know, first it impacts you as an individual. And it's going to impact in particular your capacity to read facial expressions, your capacity to regulate your own emotions, right? Your processing time for, you know, when you're receiving information in. Um, and then all of that, right, is going to impact your relationship, right? Because if I'm not picking up on cues, or if I'm not thinking before I speak, right, or if I'm, you know, too quick or too slow to like process information because I'm just reactive, then that means that I might be, you know, I might be snapping at somebody, right? And and it's harder to be empathetic when we are sleep deprived, right? Those parts of our brain just are not working. They're just not working as strongly as if we get a good night's sleep. And so, you know, for a couple relationship, you can easily think of examples of how this is playing out, right? Like they're both not sleeping. And then one of them is saying, like, can you, you know, the always like nursing mothers like need water. They're so thirsty, they're trying to make breast milk. And, you know, they say, Can you get me water? And then their partner who's sleep deprived is like, you're always asking for things, right? It's like hard to put it into context of, you know, and empathize and to process, you know, why are you asking me for this thing? And so then that's like, you know, it's like a it's like a cut in the relationship, like a little paper cut, you know. Yes. And if that continues to happen, you know, because of prolonged sleep deprivation or because we don't recognize these patterns, or because we're not really well versed in how to repair when we damage a relationship, then it becomes this longer-term problem, right? So then and then relationally, we're gonna see that couple potentially, you know, grow farther apart and then get divorced, right? Like the the things that happen in this period of time after baby can sometimes put cook couples on a trajectory for uh for deciding that you know this isn't the right relationship for us.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

So that's one example, right? Yes, yes, that's definitely one possibility, but not all new parents get divorced. I just want to say that for anybody listening. Oh, absolutely, right.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

And and I think, you know, this just the opportunity to like reflect and say, okay, yeah, maybe I'm a little bit more on edge when I don't get sleep, right? Then that positions you to feel empowered, that like you can make a change there, right? And if you can't feel like you can like, you know, all of a sudden get eight hours sleep because your baby's nursing every three to four hours, what you can do is repair the relationship, right? And you can say, I'm realizing that I'm, you know, I'm on edge and that I'm not as able to, you know, be patient right now. And I'm and I'm sorry, right? And that's, you know, that's the band-aid, right? Like that's the healing paper cut. And then that, you know, that will help the relationship, you know, sustain itself. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

Yeah. And I'm so glad that you gave that, right? Because it's because we're talking about the problem, but I also want people to have some solutions, right? As they're listening and just knowing what can I do, right? So what what are some maybe a few practical, realistic ways that busy parents, especially those with young children, can strengthen that connection in their everyday life.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

Yeah, sure. So, you know, on the sleep side, some of the research says, you know, if a mom can get like four to five straight hours of sleep, you know, that is enough to preserve some like her mental health, right? For most so, like when you're at that point, if you're able to, you know, and I also say that because sometimes the moms, you know, they're like, but I have. All these other things to do. I have to hold the onesies, right? And like I have to so hard, so hard. But you know, if there is that window, particularly for sleep, you know, trying to get about five hours stretch, um, really, really, you know, change a game changer for a lot of moms in terms of their mental health. Um, but you know, yeah, so more broadly to your question of what can um parents do, going back to what I said before, like we are not meant to parent in isolation. And so the first thing that comes to mind is, you know, again, this well, taking that holding on to that as like a bit of a mindset shift, right? That like I don't have to do this, I'm not supposed to do this alone. You know, I think that that can be really impactful for new parents. Um, because like we do get messages that like you are supposed to do this alone, right? Like it's that you are the parent, you need to do, you know. So remembering that again, for the majority of human history, we parented in collective communities. Um, so if you're struggling or if you're like pausing and being like, why is this so hard? It's like because you're not supposed to do it alone. Um, then the you know, the the next step, the challenge though, is like how do you create a community for yourself if you don't already have one? And um, you know, and and then it does require a little bit of effort or a lot of bit of effort, right? Yeah, there isn't a system or a structure in place. Um but if the parent is able to, again, like give themselves the grace to know I'm not supposed to do this alone and know that putting a putting some effort into creating connection will be so helpful, right? It is protective of postpartum depression and anxiety and you know helps preserve their mental health or well-being. So where can you, you know, make some inroads for um for building a community, whether that's looking for some new parent groups that you might be able to connect with or asking for help, right? Really, this was really hard for me to like I really, really felt like these are my kids, it's my responsibility, I've gotta do this. And it it took me a long time to get to the place to say, you know, like I've gotta be willing to ask, I've gotta be willing to see the opportunity for somebody else to come in. Um, and so that was a big mindset shift for me and knowing that other people do genuinely want to help, even like other parents, you know, because they've they've been there too. And so exactly yeah, they they want to you know to fill some gaps that maybe they felt like they didn't get filled for themselves. And so asking creates that opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

Um and saying yes, I like to help, it makes them feel good. So when you ask somebody for help, you're allowing that person to feel good about what they're doing.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

Right, right, yeah. So, you know, and I just I think it's so curious that that can be so hard, right? And and where are the the thoughts in our minds that yeah, kind of become barriers to uh yeah, to in it asking that and and accepting. Um so those mind set shifts and then the yeah, the willingness to kind of open yourself up to it, you know, to put yourself in in a new position where yeah, it might be like showing up to the new mom's group or like the baby reading session at the library, right? Like they usually have, you know, young kid reading groups at libraries um or community centers. Um and but you know, yeah, can you can you find it, you know, find it within yourself to put yourself in that new situation, even if it feels a little bit awkward? Because I guarantee you that the other mothers there, right? The other parents there are feeling a lot of the same things you are. They're seeking social connection, they, you know, they are trying to figure it out too. So um, the more that we can kind of bring down our own barriers and and come together in any type of third spaces that allow new parents to come together, there's just so much like strength and goodness in it.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

Absolutely. Yeah, and I think that's one of the huge benefits of seeking that social connection is that now you're within a group of people who understands what you're going through and you start to see that other people are going through the same thing. It's like, okay, maybe I don't have to feel guilty, right? Maybe I'm not doing it all wrong. Most people struggle with this. Right. Yeah, absolutely. I'm also wondering a little bit about communication because we talked about some shifts that we can make in our thinking. Are there any simple communication shifts or simple small practices that you often recommend that can make a big difference at home?

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Yeah, sure. So um I think that one of the things that I always end up feel like I say a lot in in sessions is about kind of this idea of like making the covert overt, right? Um, that, you know, we often can operate with lots of assumptions in our mind, especially, you know, in in families that are busy, you know, to your point before, like we're kind of on the go. We're, you know, and there's a level of, you know, efficacy that that make that that making assumptions like helps us reach, right? Like we're, you know, I know you're going, you know, like we're all we're all operating in the same um direction. But when we're talking about um, you know, trying to improve relationships and improve connection, I think that this is where being more overt is helpful, right? Being more specific and being, you know, really, really sharing and saying, you know, what's on your mind um and how you're feeling becomes important. So like it's okay to like, you know, assume that your partner is going to take out the trash because typically they do, but like, don't assume that your partner always knows that you love them, right? Like that is something that like being more forthcoming and and saying it more directly can be um, you know, can have a big impact, you know. So the the taking out the trash might be the dress the gesture that like this is the way I show my love, right? But I also like say, you know, we are as humans, our major form of communication is words. And so if you want to get a message across, the easiest, best way to do that is to use words. So to say, you know, thank you for taking the trash out. That's really helpful, you know, that you know, that really helps our family, our, our, our house run, our family work effectively, you know, and and just finding opportunities to make those things that you might be thinking, right? Like you might be, they might be in your head, but but bringing them out to the forefront. And the same goes like for for parent-child relationships and for kids, you know. I think it's easy to tell our little little kids how much we love them because they're so cute and like cuddly and squishy. Um, but as kids get older, they still need to hear that. You know, I do believe strongly in the idea that like you can't spoil kids with love. Um, and so telling your children that you love them as much as you can, right? As much as is possible, you know, is it is helps them know, right? Like that's the repetition that their brain needs to confirm that they are valued, they are important. So yeah, this idea of like, how do we make the covert overt, right? Um, yeah. And then I the other idea that comes to mind in terms of communication shifts at home that I'll just throw out there is um is about playing, right? So I'm really big into helping parents get into a play mode with their kids. Um, so this is, you know, something that um is really beneficial both to the parent-child relationship, but for the parent too, to shift out of a productivity mindset to a play mindset. I find it's really, really hard for modern day parents to play with their kids, you know, and it's something that we sort of lose over time. And so playing is a is children's way of communicating, right? Yes. So if we're talking about, you know, communicating, thinking about how do I connect right with my kids through this way that that they communicate, you know, what's what's relevant to them in their world. So um I I talk with parents about, you know, letting kids lead play time, um, that the child is in charge. And so um the parent is, you know, just their playmate for a certain amount of time. Our general recommendation is that you try to play with your kids for about 15 minutes a day. I know that that's like really hard for the average working parent who probably has to commute in, you know, it's just you know, time is tight, but yeah, giving your kids the opportunity to use their dominant form of communication. Right. So that you can connect with them in the moment. The parent is letting the kiddo lead. You can play whatever you want, you know, within safety, within reason, but kids make the rules otherwise, and the parent is their playmate. Um, you know, you can set a timer on it and you can let them know two minutes left, one minute left for playtime, and then playtime is over. But this type of you know, communication scenario between parents and kids can have uh such an amazing impact to deepen parent-child relationships.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

Yes, yes. So much learning happens through play, and also so much of our own learning as parents happens through play. There's a reason why therapists do play therapy because so much comes up during play, right? You you're able to connect with your child in a way that you wouldn't be able to if they weren't playing, and that, you know, they're they're communicating with you, they're sharing. And also as they're playing, a lot of topics are coming up, and you know these are topics that are on their mind if they're playing. And so you might see what kind of things they are excited about, or what kind of things they're worried about, or there's so much that comes up in play. So I love that you gave that example, and the other one of just telling them that you love them, telling your kids, telling your spouse, right, that you love them. Um, because especially I think in this um phase of life and parenting where life can get really busy, where maybe sleep isn't the best that it's been, where maybe communication hasn't been the best. Um, it's really easy for people to feel like they're not important anymore just because you're preoccupied. Your mind might be preoccupied with a thousand things that you have to do, and somebody else seeing looking at that from the outside might feel like this person doesn't have enough time for me, or this person doesn't care about me, or or I'm not as important to them. But then the moment you say, I love you, or I appreciate what you're doing, I appreciate you taking out the trash, or I appreciate that you've been studying for your test, or whatever, all of a sudden it's like, oh, they do care about me. Oh, they do recognize the things that I do. So so important to say those things. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

And you know, again, there's like this cascade of biochemistry that happens when you give that and when you receive that to our lifestyle medicine focus, the internal changes that happen, the, you know, the good oxytocin that that your your brain and body begins to produce when you hear the words I love you, or when your loved one gives you, you know, that that's you know, that's the the spice of life. Like that's the beautiful thing. Um, and that you can give that to somebody else. You can give that to your kids, your spouse, your community, um, and and receive that too.

SPEAKER_00 34:24

Yeah. Yeah, it's beautiful. And I know that you've been exploring how social connectedness fuels that spiritual well-being as well. Can you share more about that? Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 34:36

You know, again, going back to what I was saying before about the um the model that the military uses, it's it's always included um spiritual fitness. And so my work there enabled me to try to both understand more about what what is meant by this term spiritual fitness and how it intersects with these other areas, purely social connection. So um the the team that I was supporting in the military has done a lot of research trying to define and then measure this concept of spiritual fitness. And the way that they um have measured it is by, well, let first let me just find the difference between spirituality and religion, because I think that's you know, for some people they might not understand. So, broadly speaking, we can think of spirituality as like intentional living. Um, it's, you know, a your kind of approach that might include your values, your meaning, your purpose. Um, and it's you know, where you're driven from your core and how you want to live your life. Religion um is a way that spirituality can manifest. And uh often religions take a more structured form, right? You can think of particular faith traditions as the religion, so that that faith tradition has a set of values, right? That it says that we are going to live in this way, or it has a set of traditions that it says these are the behaviors we're going to engage in. So that becomes a more structured approach to living out somebody's spirituality. So you can be spiritual, but not religious. But if you're religious, you're, you know, that's your your manifestation of your spirituality. So then in this research that the team that I worked alongside of did, they were looking at spirituality in terms of how to measure it, right? So, like we go with this concept of intentional living. What does it mean to the all the different ways that that can unfold? So the model there is that spirituality can unfold as a connection to a higher power. So you can think of that vertically, um, or it can unfold as a connection to others and to, you know, nature and to your surroundings. So you can think of that horizontally. Um, or some people are going to have both. So some type of diagonal line, right? Okay. So if we kind of open up uh, you know, our way of thinking about spirituality in this regard, then social connections, right, becomes a way that we fuel our spiritual well-being because it's a way that we see ourselves as connected, right, to something bigger than ourselves, a network of people, right? A community, uh, you know, even the whole human race, right? Like you can feel a connection to that. And then uh if you're thinking about, you know, what are your values and how are you living out your values, if you value social connection, if you value relationships, then you're going to, you know, put your effort into trying to deepen those relationships, bring people together, right? Be of service to others in different ways, right? That that might look like, help others, right? And that's going to be a way that you manifest your spirituality and that you live out that value of, you know, feeling like connections to my my fellow humans, right? Is you know, is really how I fuel myself and and again live out my purpose.

SPEAKER_00 38:09

That's such a beautiful way of looking at it. And how might people cultivate that meaning and purpose or a sense of spiritual connection if we're trying to give um a more concrete example of how to do it through relationships, even if they don't necessarily have that um identified organized religion?

SPEAKER_01 38:32

Yeah. Yeah. So I think um, you know, the if you're somebody who really the this idea that like all people are connected to one another, that like really this idea of of horizontal spirituality. Um, and you know, you you tend to think along the lines of like people are more alike than than than we are different, and most people are good people, you know, then I think, yeah, then then you're like on board with this idea. And if we think again of of spirituality as an intentional way of living, then you have to think about, okay, well, then how do I take those values, right? That that people are good people, and how do I live intentionally in that, right? And how do I make that a part of, you know, my my life, my my regular life, like in a type of ritual or in a type of you know, action, in a type of uh routine, perhaps. So, you know, this this might show up in just in trying to cultivate like a mindfulness practice, right? Where you are engaging in maybe part of like a loving-kindness meditation. Um so in a loving-kindness meditation, you're thinking about, you know, how do I send love and kindness to myself, to somebody in my network and out to the whole world, right? And so, you know, manifesting this goodwill for others in uh a loving kindness meditation, I think is a is a a concrete way, right? Like something that that we could do that doesn't take too, too long, right? Um, and uh, you know, you could do on the regular to try to, you know, again and like in expand upon these feelings that we're all connected, we're all one. And uh, you know, I'm thinking of like the Artemis mission right now, right? Like the astronauts in outer space and like this, these are some of the things that they've been saying and and how like that's like a spiritual experience, you know, to um to be able to share that with somebody else, even. And then, you know, yeah, I think in terms of helping people cultivate meaning and purpose in this regard, like reframing their uh your purpose as this idea of again bringing people together, that you know, if if that's a value that you have, then when you put your energy and your effort into that, you are fueling your spiritual core, right? You're fuel fueling your spiritual self. So if you're the person that, you know, organizes get-togethers for your friends, or you're the person who, you know, plans like your, you know, your family dinners and holiday dinners, you know, that that's don't just see that as like I'm doing something, you know, I have to do this task, right? Like you could see that as you could reframe it as like this is me living in my values, right? Like this is me living out my spiritual core because I believe in the value of connection. I believe in the in the you know, the beauty that can come from bringing people together and engaging in conversation, helping each other feel seen, perhaps, you know, sharing love back and forth and how that's all of our physical health, right? Because again, we know that the research says it helps physical health. Um, and so you're, you know, you're you're contributing to that by actively creating those opportunities and creating those spaces.

SPEAKER_00 41:49

Yes. It makes so much sense. I'm wondering how that uh pillar of connection, as if we're talking about the pillars of lifestyle medicine, how does that connectedness interact with other pillars of lifestyle medicine, like um movement, sleep, stress management, nutrition?

SPEAKER_01 42:08

Yeah, sure. So um, you know, we know we talked a little bit about sleep, you know, with new parents. But I do think that that that idea of sleep deprivation impacting empathy can happen at any stage of life.

SPEAKER_00 42:20

Definitely, yes.

SPEAKER_01 42:23

And um, you know, something like nutrition, um, you know, it's interesting again, you know, was just mentioning about like bringing people together for a holiday. You know, a lot of social connection happens around food and it's a way of sharing, you know, time together. But we also know that what uh what you're choosing to eat impacts your family, right? So especially as parents, you know, you're sort of in that role of making the decisions and and educating your children in particular about the healthfulness of um of food. And so, you know, what is the the kind of narrative, what's the story that you want to have around nutrition and family you know, and and your family. And, you know, we are people who eat blah, blah, blah food, right? You know, or this is why it's important that we have a very colorful plate of food, right? So I think in particular, parents are really uh have a driver's seat opportunity to help, you know, help children understand the importance of lifestyle medicine, a plant-based diet, right? And you know, even like I talk with my kids about like where does our food come from? Like this, you know, this avocado came to us all the way from Mexico. Think about all like what it took to get this avocado here, right? From all the people that had to handle it to like the earth energy, the sun energy that had to go into making it, that interconnectedness. So there's a lot of knowledge, you know, that parents can pass and then to Influence the nutritional elements of, you know, of what their kids are consuming. And, you know, again, these broader ideas of like, let's connect over food, but let's be mindful of what it is we're consuming as well. And how do we make, you know, good choices that are going to positively fuel our bodies, you know, again, whether that's within your family or you're going out with friends. And the same is true for movement, right? That group exercise, right? There's a lot of power in that. And um, and especially like accountability with movement and physical activity. We're more likely to move forward on our goals and meet our physical activity goals if we are doing it with accountability and in concert with other people. Um, and so there's, you know, the social connection is latent in all of this, right? That somebody like sets a, you know, a physical activity goal and does that all on their own. Like when they go to run the marathon, their family there with the signs saying, like, we believe in you, you can do it, you know, and that's added fuel that they need to achieve, you know, some type of physical fitness goal like that. There's um I again to my point earlier, like I think sometimes we just don't think about social connection in all of these areas. But, you know, once you stop and reflect on it, you're like, oh, of course, social connection happens over meals and you know, and it can happen walking with friends, right? Even for new parents, that's like, you know, one of the one of my go-to suggestions is like, can you find somebody to go for a walk with, right? Because at least then you're in nature, you're getting some some movement, and you're getting social connection. If you're hitting multiple pillars of lifestyle medicine at once, like then I'm I'm thrilled.

SPEAKER_00 45:44

Yes, absolutely. And I love that you used that example of the marathon because I could relate to that a hundred percent. I was doing a marathon with one of my daughters, and we were probably like three quarters of the way in, and I was feeling like I can't do this anymore. I don't know how I'm gonna make it to the end, you know? And then my husband and my younger daughter were there with a sign and cheering me on. And after I saw them, all of a sudden I had this renewed energy that just came from that connection. It didn't come from anywhere else because I was already dragging toward the end. And I saw them, and all of a sudden it's like, oh, okay, this energy I'm gonna keep going, I'm gonna make it to the end. I'm gonna make myself proud, but I'm gonna make them proud. But we it's amazing what that connection can do. Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 46:33

It's like, you know, you didn't like eat a power bar or drink, you know, drink something that like, you know, changed the electrolytes. It was, you know, it was like that, yeah, like these people mat, you know, and then it's like the the shifts in the mindset maybe a little bit too, like the reminder of like I can do this, this matters, this is important, you know, it matters to me, it matters to these other people. They're cheering me on, yeah, the accountability there. And so that, you know, that's changes the cascade of the, you know, biochemistry inside of you to give you what you needed.

SPEAKER_00 47:04

Get it okay. It's amazing. What's one insight that you wish more people understood about relationships and about um health, and that that you wish they understood maybe earlier in life or sooner rather than later? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:20

Reflecting on what we're talking about here, you know, I find myself saying a lot, you know, that just that the nature and the quality of your relationships is a part of health, right? There's um this stat that I throw out there that um there's research that says, you know, that again, the nature and the quality of relationships at age 50 is a better indicator of your long-term health and your cholesterol at age 50. Right. So if you think about how much like effort like the medical system puts into managing cholesterol, you know, and and what's happening for relationships, right? Like are uh are medical professionals like asking, you know, do you feel connected? How is that going? You know, like what's your relationship with your kiddos like these days, right? And like are they providing any support along those lines because that could have such a more profound impact on long-term health, um, than, you know, than just taking that cholesterol medicine, which is important, right? Cholesterol management cholesterol is important. Um, but just to draw that, you know, that distinction. And uh, you know, there was another stat that the the past surgeon general put out there about the, you know, comparing uh loneliness, right? So feeling lonely as being equivalent to the health deficits that a person experiences by smoking like something like I think it's 10 or 15 cigarettes a day, right? So if you feel lonely, damaging your health just as much as or more than smoking cigarettes, right? So just to draw these distinctions in terms of, you know, again, these these are very important public health concerns that have needed attention. Um, but now I think we're we're coming into this space of recognizing the importance of social connection, particularly at a time when, you know, the more recent estimates are like one in 10 Americans say that they feel lonely, they feel disconnected. And so it's a part of your health, right? It's a part of your health, it's a part of your well-being. And and with that in mind, the follow-up thought being like there are things that you can learn. There are tangible skills that that you can learn to improve your health, to prove your relationships and thereby your health. Um, and you know, it's not this like vacuum that, like, oh, my relationships are crummy and now I can't do anything about it, you know, or or I feel lonely and there's nothing that's ever going to change that. Uh, there are a lot of um, you know, again, there's there's concrete skills that you can learn and and there are resources out there. I am a ambassador for the Foundation for Social Connection. And so, you know, I know that there's a community of uh, you know, practitioners and and researchers and whatnot who are regularly generating, you know, educational resources and trying to develop programs and trying to reach the people who feel lonely and isolated, um, and you know, and let them know that uh, you know, they are not, right? That that others want to connect with them. It's um it's just that our you know, our our world, our society doesn't always make that easy.

SPEAKER_00 50:27

I know. I know. You know, it's it's too bad. They've also done a lot of um research with centenarians, blue zones, things like that. Inevitably, um it's it's the people that have those strong social connections that are living to be over a hundred years old, you know, and and are in good health and enjoying, they're not a hundred years old and and in bed with tubes in their nose and all that, right? They're actually living their life, walking around, dancing, enjoying their their connections with others. And of course, that's not the only piece of it, it's also about their nutrition and their movement and all of that. But that social connection is such a big piece of that too.

SPEAKER_01 51:12

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you know, to go back to that spirituality conversation, you know, I I suspect part of that is because the relationships give them purpose, even older in their life, right? When maybe they're not or they don't have a career, an active career as much anymore, but that they, you know, they know that they matter to somebody. It's important for them to keep showing up, it's important for them to, you know, to keep active, keep physically moving, right? Keep mindful of what they're eating so that they can keep showing up for these people in their life. And so that that sense of purpose, you know, can be part of that spiritual core idea. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 51:52

Oh, this is such a great conversation. And I know that listeners are gonna want to learn more about your work. Where can they go to learn more about the work that you do or connect with you after this episode?

SPEAKER_01 52:04

Yeah, absolutely. So, as you mentioned at the top of the hour, my therapy practice is called Evergrow Therapy and Wellness Collective. The website is Evergrowtherapy Collective.com. I am on Instagram uh at Evergrow underscore collective. Uh, I'm an intermittent poster. I can't say you're gonna find a lot of me there, but I am there. Yeah. And um, I mean, I also have um my other website is laurenmasina.com, which is just my name. Um, under those URLs, I have information about the parent education that we've created. And uh, we have some workshops that we're doing uh in the next couple months. Um one for parents and kids to help them learn how to play better. And um, another one for women helping them explore how to deepen their connections to enhance their spiritual core. So information about those is certainly on the websites. And then I'll also just give a plug for the the military program that I've worked with. That website is hprc-online.org because they have again, uh, you know, reflecting lifestyle medicine. They have resources in social fitness, uh, mental fitness, nutritional fitness, physical fitness, and and spirituality as well. So um some great material there that it is written for the military, but it is, you know, applicable to to anybody, most of us.

SPEAKER_00 53:26

Anyway, you're doing such amazing work. Thank you for the work that you do.

SPEAKER_01 53:30

Thank you. Yes, this was so fun and you know, just a joy to be able to talk about something that um, you know, I I believe is so important. So I appreciate the time and space to do that.

SPEAKER_00 53:41

Super important. I will put all those links in the show notes. Um, Lauren, this has been such a meaningful conversation. Thank you so much. I love how you brought the science and the heart of connection into this conversation. And I think it's such important information for people to hear, to feel more validated, to normalize things, to approach things easier, and to just feel in a space where they can do that. So thank you for that. Absolutely. Thank you. And to our listeners, if this episode resonated with you, I invite you to take just one more step, one small step toward connection this week, whether that's a conversation, a moment of presence, or even just offering yourself a little bit more compassion. Thank you so much for joining us today on Thursday Tea with Sammy. Until next time, stay well. Thank you so much for tuning in to Thursday Tea with Sammy, your sip of wellness and mental health. I hope that today's episode gave you a little inspiration in your journey. Remember, your journey to wellness starts here. I would love to hear from you. Drop me a comment letting me know how you like this episode or what topics you want to hear more about. Until next time, stay well and keep being your best.