31 Weeks to Go: Running the World: An Epic Journey with Nick Butter

Join us as we sit down with Nick Butter, the incredible athlete who has run a marathon in every country in the world. From his humble beginnings in Dorset to his record-breaking adventures, Nick shares his inspiring story of adventure, resilience, and the power of perseverance. Dive into the challenges, triumphs, and lessons learned from his journey, and discover how he turned his passion into a career. 

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In the face of unprecedented environmental challenges, Project Salt Run aims to inspire action through an extraordinary journey of transformation. Hannah Cox, a sustainability advocate with Indian heritage and a first-time runner, will undertake a life-changing challenge across India, following the historic Inland Customs Line. 

This colonial-era boundary enforced a devastating salt tax, causing immense suffering and millions of deaths, but has been largely forgotten from history.
By retracing this route, Hannah seeks to honour its legacy and transform its meaning, inviting others to discover their own version of extraordinary. This journey is not about guarantees of success—Hannah faces the real possibility of failure—but it’s a powerful reminder that taking bold steps, even in uncertainty, can inspire meaningful change.

The Challenge

Partnering with Givestar, Hannah will run 100 marathons in 100 days, covering 4,200 km, to raise £1,000,000 for 1% for the Planet. This journey is a powerful testament to the potential within all of us to make a real difference.

Want to get involved in Project Salt Run? Shoot us a message at contact@projectsaltrun.com we would love to hear from you!

Want to get involved in Project Salt Run? Shoot us a message at contact@projectsaltrun.com we would love to hear from you!

Transcript

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If you are trying to make a difference in the world through charity, try GiveStar, the fundraising platform of choice for charity runners and thousands more. With just a few clicks, you can create pages supporting up to four different charities, take tap to pay contacts as donations, track your progress and share your story with friends. All on their free app. Download GiveStar today to make your fundraising count. This episode is also supported by 1% for the planet. Our planet gives us everything we believe in giving back. That's why we work with 1% for the planet who helps support businesses and individuals committed to donating 1% of the revenue to environmental causes. Join the movement and make a difference. Learn more at 1%fortheplanet.org.

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Welcome back to the Project Salt Run podcast. My name is Joel Chevaillier. I'm Hanna Cox.

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And today I'm really excited to talk to Nick Butter. He is a super cool, really humble, epic athlete. I'm just going to fanboy all over him continuously because he's literally run a marathon in every(...) country in the world, which is ridiculous. But yeah, we had a really great conversation about it.(...) And well, I guess, Hannah, how did you meet him in the first place? Like, how did you get this contact?

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My friend Dan told me about him because obviously as a non-runner 12 months ago,(...) I think I'd heard of him, but I just heard of him, if you know what I mean. Like hadn't really looked into him or anything. And then I realised he had a book out about running a marathon in every country. So I read it while I was on my first holiday in like three years, solo holiday in three years.

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And his writing is incredible. One he's just a great writer. You can just imagine everything that he's saying when he's writing.

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He's incredible writing style.

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And he really lives his truth in his writing. So I listened then I listened to some podcasts he'd done. And it was so nice to listen to them because they were from just when he'd come back from his run and talking about wanting to run these one weekends. And that's now what he does as a job is he takes other people out to experience the joy in running. And he just seemed like a really lovely person and someone that just talks so he was so articulate. You probably hear me. I bet you hear me saying the podcast like articulate like a million times, but he just feels so articulate in the way in which he describes his privilege.(...) And I know what you mean about humble, but it's like that. But like in a nice way, he just yeah, he's just like an all round good guy. Yeah. Yeah. Well, super, super ecstatic and can't wait to get to the podcast. So I think we should just jump right in. Yeah, let's go.

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And we're getting judges to talk about everything that he's written. But first of all, thank you very much for being on a show. And also, do you know how big of a deal you are?

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Thank you very much for very inviting me on. I'm just another runner that's done a few miles. That's all. No, very, very glad to be on and looking forward to chatting about Anna's upcoming project. Yeah, well, I'm just can't believe you've introduced tuna on pizza to me and I thought it was a good idea. I was like, you mentioned it's literally so much in that book that I was like, I need to have some tuna on a pizza.

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And I was very upset you didn't have it in your like at the end of Nick's book, he has a very, I feel like it's a very me thing, like a statistics of all the things from the run. And I was like, how many tuna pizzas and it was not there. So if you ever have to redo that book, there is my what suggestions? The only how many I had probably too many, maybe there's not a big enough number to have on me.

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Infinity sign.

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So I think we need to use the tuna on pizza as a touchstone for this podcast, because that's so we're gonna because obviously I want to get started. I want to understand how you got to the point where you're just like, yeah, no, no problem. I'll just run a marathon in every country.(...) But obviously somewhere in there that the tuna on pizza must have must have arisen or was it there always there from the beginning? We've talked about this.

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It's probably probably always there. But also, I know fish so I now don't have tuna on pizza.(...) Gotcha. I know. So it's a big part of my life, but it was in the past. If I could ask, have you always been a runner then or when was your when did you kind of get your start? Yeah, I think so. Certainly sport, I think growing up in the countryside in South of the UK and Dorset, lots of either running, walking or cycling to and from school. Sometimes it would be a by a certain point in time, it was about 10 miles each way that I would ride to school as a kid. And then that kind of got a little bit out of hand doing a few cross country events.

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And so cycling and running kind of happened kind of in teenage hood. But sport originally arose through skiing. I was in the the under my teens British ski team. And that was that was about 14. So sport and I think the discipline of sport and maybe the addiction of competing. That's that was certainly early on. I had a brilliant coach and a life that was adventurous without me really realizing it. That's the wonder of being a child, right? You just kind of fumble from one day to the next doing these cool things. And you realize that's not necessarily that normal. And I was very privileged to do it all. That then led to more sport later on in life.(...) And yeah, I did my first marathon when I was 11.

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That was very old. Yeah, I know.

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Right. That was a bit of a painful, tearful run. It wasn't as enjoyable and epic as it sounds. It was horrible. That must be like the equivalent of an adult doing like double that because your legs are so tiny.(...) Yeah, that's true. I mean, I was still pretty I was pretty tall as a kid, but you're right. I hadn't thought about the height thing. Maybe, yeah, maybe that's even more. Maybe I can tell my first ultramar. But that's what you're telling me. Yeah, that's what I'm telling you. I'm the expert on these things.

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Yeah, I mean, sport was just there. I think they also had sport with a bit of an outlet. I was dyslexic. I really struggled with kind of the the academic side. I later caught up and did pretty all right, amazingly. But it was certainly an outlet, a bit of a therapy, a bit of a I'm actually OK at this. I can, you know, my hand to eye coordination with or I can catch and throw or I can kick a ball and I can do a bit of running and cycling and skiing. And so sport became this thing that I was hooked on. And then skiing happened and I got a real job, started to run some more for therapy. You know, just what was the real job just out of curiosity in banking, in finance. So that was OK, real, real job. There was a big kid. There was a yeah, there was a growing up job. And it was not me. I'm not anybody that knows me well knows I'm not a grown up. I will never grow up. I don't think I like adulthood is a lie. It is, isn't it? It doesn't really exist. You think you're getting there. Corporate conspiracy. And then you get to 80. Yeah, no, I am.

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I think I use running in that job as a bit of an escapism, a bit of fresh air more than anything. And then it became a bit of a community element, doing some races, doing some training and then getting quite good and competitive with myself. I think the high the high profile job kind of geared to my competitive side that then kind of boosted my competitive element within sport.

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And then started to get a few sponsors, started to win a few things and then had an opportunity to maybe take it a bit further. So, yeah, that's. So while you were working the banking job, you were still constantly going out doing marathons, doing ski trips, things like that. Yeah, skiing and skiing, it's started a little bit because you get you get old quickly skiing about, you know, by your time, you have twenty three or something like that. You're pretty old in skiing terms. Skiing compared you are. You know, if you're 20 competing, that's peak and in my experience anyway. And I yeah, I loved it. I still do. I still ski. I have to look after the legs a little bit more now. But yeah, that was that was the that was the intro and and then everything else came after.

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But it seems like if you were getting like sponsorship and people were kind of reaching out to you and stuff like that, all of that was kind of leaning towards running, I guess. Right. Yeah, that was that was that was that was all running. I just kind of got to a point where I mean, I had sponsors in the ski life, but that was kind of chapter one and work was chapter two. Chapter three, if you like, was the running bit. And that's that's the bit that took off and started to run more marathons. But then ultra and longer distance stuff I found I was more naturally OK at. And when did you do your first ultra, then? How old were you then?

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Gosh, I have no idea, actually. Probably. Probably 20, something like that. Oh, my God. I think I think this guy. Yeah. If we're counting. Yeah, I think that's probably why I need to look at that. I've got to I have a spreadsheet with all of my all of my very data driven person. I find that background, I guess, that number comes kind of matches well. But everything is written down spreadsheets and I have a handwritten running diary, which is OK, which I love. So I have to find find when that one was.

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So one of the things I'm really curious about, because, you know, so Hannah's the runner. I'm I'm not a runner. And it's just one of those. I'm fairly, I'm fairly a runner.(...) I haven't even reached my year anniversary yet. Well, let's see. Yeah, let's talk about at least staying on it. Let's talk about that, Hannah. Go on. Give me give me. I've given you my synopsis. Yeah,(...) we're interviewing you. That's why. This is how I want to know. I want to know how all of a sudden became within 12 months. You you do this crazy 4000 whatever call it a job. Yeah,(...) I don't know. Well, I mean, this is the podcast. I know that I've just I've been obsessed with this hedge for about 10 years. So my dad was born in Calcutta.

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When he died in 2011, I just got really interested in learning more about colonial history and like my cultural identity, I guess, because, yeah, because I guess people didn't know that about me, would never guess that about me when they met me.

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So I read this book called The Great Hedge of India, which is about the old inland customs line, which is(...) was put there by the East India Company to enforce assault tax. And then it was a big hedge. And it just felt like such a weird Disney villain mental thing that the British did.(...) And I was obsessed with traveling along it. So I then decided I was just going to go to India and try and find it. Like I definitely watched too much Indiana Jones as a kid. And then I saved the money and I decided I would go to India over land. So I ended up traveling like overland to Bhutan. I was going to India.(...) Basically, my partner at the time didn't like India. So we came home. Then Covid happened. But luckily I came home and met Joel and Becca and Dan

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at various like adventure travel things. And I was telling them about this idea. Long story short, lost touch with them. Got back in touch with them again last year. Found Dan Beaumont and he'd become an ultra runner. And he just went, oh, you should run it.(...) And I went, yeah. And here we are. And so now we're doing brilliant. Brilliant.(...) I like it. I like an obsession which has then almost turned into a running challenge because the universe has just told me that's what it should be. That is brilliant.

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And it was it was a four thousand thirty

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K that we were saying we were going to have to do until

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the other day when we spoke with Nikki Love. And now it has to be four hundred forty five to get onto her level. Yeah, something like that.

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So it just it just keeps getting more ridiculous, basically. I just want to get out there. So all I'm doing is running.(...) But yeah, it might it might turn into an even more ridiculous mission by the time you finish or even get halfway. I mean, it might based on anything I've done. Yeah, it will get more and more out of hand the more you do. So we've been told and I want to know if this is true. We've been told the first two weeks are supposed to be like the most grueling hardest part of the entire trip. Would you back that up or? Yeah, two to three weeks. I would say first three weeks extended by the third to three weeks.(...) Yeah, that's the hard. But that's that's where injuries, that's where your body is adapting. Once you get past the first five or six weeks and you should be in a rhythm. That's it all goes to plan.(...) Oh, great. That sounds super easy. Then, yeah, great. Easy. Easy. Yeah, no worries. So tell us about tell us about your one marathon in each country, because for mine, I also don't know why. I always still don't really know why I want to do it, if that makes sense. So I know I want to do the hedge. Now I know I want to do it running.(...) But when people ask me, I'm like, I don't really know how to articulate it. And how do you feel about that with your mouth and in each country? Do you think now you can or do you still struggle with summing it up in a sentence or paragraph? Yeah, I've always had a I guess I've always had a clear motivator.

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I think somewhere in the region of adventure, exploration,

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trying to show some gratitude to the privileges that I've had and the opportunities and freedoms that we take for granted. I think that's that's that's in a nutshell, the essence of why I continue to do what I do.

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The round the world mission that was

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dreamt up out of a can I raise some money to help a particular cause?(...) And what can I do that will get some headlines? And what would I do that would actually live by the counsel of the guy I was trying to raise the money for? So the story is I was out running in the in the Sahara. I'm the famous MDS race and I met a guy called Kedavin.

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And he had terminal prostate cancer, was given given as little as two years to live.

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And he just dropped that bombshell on me. He was a random stranger dropped that bombshell on me when we were when we were chatting in the in the desert. And he said to me, it still gives me goosebumps thinking about it, because he said to me, you know, if you're in my position, what would you do if you could do anything in the world? You know, he said, don't wait for a diagnosis like mine. Don't wait for something to happen to give you that decision. And I'd already kind of had one foot out of the door of the job. I was racing a lot, kind of doing that. But when he said, what would you do if you could do anything? My immediate response was, I suppose, a mix of embarrassment and shame that I didn't know the answer. And I was speaking to somebody that had a limited amount of days left.(...) And he said, you know, what would you do? And I they just sat with me and it made me very uncomfortable.

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Race finished. It was a tough race.(...) A few weeks later, I kind of thought, I want to do some money to live by Kevin's advice, live by the council, which is to do what I wanted to do to make some make sure I was living by my own standards and I wanted to raise some money to to help fight the cancer of similar people in his position.(...) So I just started doing things. I thought, well, what could I do? Could I do seven continents? Could I know I wanted to do running because that was I was one of the things I love to take photos, I love to meet people, love to experience new cultures. So travel and running was it was an obvious, but what did I do? And I just googled, you know, anybody run American in every country in the world.

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And the answer was no.(...) And I thought, well, why? You know, we've we've we put people on the moon. How are we not done this? I now know why it is really, really difficult and very expensive.

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And it takes a long time. But yeah, that's where I started. And I sat down with my family and said, I'm going to do this. They said, how many countries are there? I said, I have no idea.

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And and then that one one thing led to another. And a couple of years later, I was on the start line. And just under a couple of years after that, I finished. So that's where that's where running went a bit mad.

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How long did it take from kind of start to finish? I guess with planning and without planning. So just the mission itself was January the 6th to November the 11th. The following year. So that was six hundred and seventy four days. The actual mission that was roughly running roughly three, three countries, three marathons a week for ninety four weeks, something like that.

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And then the extra. You were doing this all in one go. You weren't doing this like over a period like a. You've got me this book. Yeah, yeah. I think it's just all in one go. No breaks.

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Just get it done as quickly as possible. You couldn't forgive this board record. You couldn't have a break of more than I think it was more than 14 days. You had to continue.

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But either way, you want to do the record as quickly as you can. And frankly,(...) an extra day in every place would take a an extra nine months and be more money than we could afford or needed to spend because we just wanted to do it as quickly as we could.

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And even with you doing it as fast as you can.

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There are a lot of reasons why you can't go as quickly as you would like because of travel restrictions or visas or(...) simple time of day and finishing racing. So, so that's that's where that was the journey. And then it was another two years with the planning. So two years planning, two years doing and then a bit of media, I suppose, either ends was about four and a half years in total. Yeah, I'm just thinking about like the the logistics side of that. Do you know what? This is the thing. You know, I heard then, Joe, he went, I sat down with my family and told them I was going to do this. Little did he know his mom and dad were also going to do this. So his mom and dad helped with like all the planning. That's that's true. It started with it started with I think I should do this. And then by the end of the trip was about 19, 19 people, including my parents.

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Everything from security advisers to media, PR, assistant manager, psychology, everything you can think of. It was it was one hell of a trick.

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But the logistics were far harder than the than the than the event itself. Yeah, I'm sure, especially with like the visas and entry and bits like that. Ah, the visas, you cannot.

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Yeah, it's still difficult to correctly articulate quite how complicated the visa situation is, even if you plan a trip for three weeks to, let's say, 15 different countries.(...) That would still take a lot of organizing if you need a visa to access the country. But then when you consider the fact that you have to plan up to 11 months in advance in order to get the visas approved and some of those visas are only valid for two or three months. Some of them are valid for 60 days, some of them are valid for six months. And also you have to have multiple passports because while I was using one of them, the other one would have to be sent to get the visas in and then I have like, why are you a spy? Why do you have so many? Well, I've had that many times.

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That was a question. And then also why, while I'm away, that passport then needs to find me again in order for me to use it at the right time. And if we get a delay in the trip, then I will need to use a different passport in a different location.(...) So that was very complicated. And actually, when you're tired,(...) very, very difficult to get right. Turning up on immigration and the amount of time, say, say, you know, where have you flown in from? And I genuinely wouldn't have a clue. I was just exhausted.(...) Absolutely exhausted.(...) So did you just go through on like Taurus visas or were you going through on like an athletic or a specific, like a different kind of? A bit of everything.

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It's all dependent on where I was going and what the government would,(...) the visa company that was supporting the trip, they would do most of the legwork. But obviously, there's a lot of forms to fill in. And depending on whether you're going into Israel or North Korea or China or Libya places, they all need different things.(...) So it was a mix. Yeah. Because that's the first thing I think of as I'm thinking of like North Korea and then, you know, obviously, North Korea doesn't exactly let you just do whatever you want. They're very specific about, you know, where you get to go and things like that. But then, yeah, yeah, especially if you're going to, you know, war torn territories, I imagine that could be weird. Yeah. And also they want to make sure that you are who you say that you say they are. You say you are and making sure that if I am in that country, I'm only there for a certain amount of time. Sometimes I have a 12 hour visa, for example, to get in, to get out. Do you have a time where you thought you might not get in or did you? Was there some? Oh, there was many rejections. Yeah, many rejections. And towards the end of the trip, it was looking very seriously like we wouldn't, we wouldn't finish because of the restrictions on certain countries. But it did work.(...) And I think there's something to be said there, which is just the general will of forward momentum just to continue going. And, you know, when we set off, we thought we might have enough money. We thought we might be able to sort the visas. We sort might understand the route. It was all planned. But 80 percent of after the first six months was guesswork.

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And that's where all of the all of the challenges came in that way.

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Yeah, there's one bit in your one bit in your book where you're like at the airport and you can't get out. And they're just like, we need some money. And you're like, I haven't got anything on me. And this is why I always travel with that hundred dollar bill. Not that that's not ever enough, but I always have it on me for safety because it's always like, yeah, bride money is like. Oh, yeah, we put I think we paid something like 16000 dollars worth of bribes.

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Oh, it's so expensive just to get. Wow, that blows our bright budget out of the water. We usually do like 200. Yeah, I've listened. But I listened to Samantha Gash talk about traveling across India. And she said she had they had loads of borrowed money as well. Yeah. Wow. See, normally what we do with convoys is we just do, you know, a bar of chocolate, a couple of packs of cigarettes and a bottle of whiskey. And that usually maybe that and that's funny. And that's because they look at you, Joel, and they're like, this is everything he has.(...) And it could also and it could also get you that could get you arrested in certain places, too.(...) No, it's easy. Well, you know, it's really particularly it has to be, you know, you're just kind of like, oh, like if you just want it just happens to be lying around. That's the real game that I've discovered over the years with the right to be one. Do we want a recording of how we all handle vibes on the Internet? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why not? I mean, it's a thing like it's not it's not how it's I would I look at I look at I look at bride more is that certainly maybe not in the UK, but the rest of the world is tax is not a bride. It's just a tourist tax. Yeah, I know. Tourist tax. The gringo tax. I was almost happy to pay it by the end of the trip. It has almost became a part of the planet. So, yeah.(...) Well, there's certain areas I mean, we just definitely discovered in like Central and South America. It's pretty straightforward depending on the country that you're in. They always like to do the folder or the envelope like into the car. And then it's kind of like, oh, you know, I think I think you're cool. But like, you know, they're a little upset about this or whatever, blah, blah, blah. Maybe just buy some coffee around a beer or stuff. Like, you know, maybe just go away. Yeah. And the folder slips in and say, OK, we know where this, you know, most of most of my experiences was

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far more but it was. Yeah. Get us your money or you know, damn what you want. A lot more straightforward than OK. I mean, at least they're direct. That's nicer. You know, exactly where you know where you're staying. And going on on better cultural experiences.

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Was there any places that you went to where you were just like, this is you know, this is a mecca for running. This is a place I need to come back or, you know, some something that just really. There's there's so many.

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There are so many places that I fell in love with for different reasons. And I think it's the same with all travel. You either love the place because of the nature and the scenery and the views or it's the experience you have with the people that are there or you have a particular point in time that just captures a new feeling or a new emotion that maybe you haven't felt. And I think that they always ring true to me. You know, when I talk about this trip, it was a very, very hectic two years of my life. And yet if you mention a city or a country, most of the time I will have this flood of memories come back that that bring on these all these emotions. If I try and remember them, I just can't, you know, I have to have prompts of the course.(...) But if that if you if you prompt me on a place, then it comes back. But in terms of places that I love, I feel I love Kiribati little island in the Pacific.

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And that place is just untouched. It's whatever you imagine as a paradise that was it. It was wonderful. I was exhausted by that point, but it was wonderful. And even some of the places that I found challenging because I was either ill or just overtired or stressed because of various other situations that were external to my immediate day.

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I loved, you know, I ran around erupting volcanoes in Guatemala, sat on the lip of the volcano in Nicaragua,

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swam with the non-stinging jellyfish in one of the islands I can't remember. And I think it was in the Pacific, you know, thousands of kids coming out and running with me in various different places,

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having Paralympians,(...) nine presidents of different countries ran with me.

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Thousands of tens of thousands of school kids came out and support, you know, the list is endless. The world just gave me the most epic journey I could ever dream of. And at the time, I was just taking them off, getting through. And then all of a sudden you get to the finish line and you realize you literally have run out of countries. There is, that's it. And you feel this loss of, OK, I've done that now. It's like you rushed to the finished line of a project and then it's completely, you think, ah,(...) I should have savored that more. And I still, you know, I still have that feeling on all the trips I've done. You just want to be back at that moment.

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You almost can't believe it's over. Yeah, I know. I know. I know that feeling all too well.(...) You mentioned something that I wanted to touch on. You mentioned whether you were sick or not sick.

(...)

Jumping to all these different countries and eating all these varieties of different foods. I imagine that you would get some funny tummy from time to time. Oh, yes. How did you? Because obviously we're trying to strategize for that for Hannah for for because we're changing a lot of that. We're going to a lot of different regions. Yeah. I know I'm worried about myself. I've never been to India. So that's going to be something my whole immune system is going to be like brand new to. How did you kind of handle not pooping your pants as you were running through multiple different countries? Or did you? Nappies, diapers. No, no, I'm joking.(...) Yeah. I had my mission was, you know, injure, get through whatever thing throughout you, whether it's the bribes, whether it's airline going bust, whether it's visas not working, whether it's being ill. Just continue. And I think that would be my advice to you, Hannah, is you can't whatever you do, whatever you do, whatever pre-pro biophysics you take, whatever,(...) you know, sanitize water you have, you will get ill many times. And it's almost just except that that's that's that's part of the journey. But you got on the journey. Yeah, but you got ill ill. You were like having kidney infections. You know, there's a bit I was told you about this at the week in Joao and there's a bit of a smashes his elbow up and just gets on a plane. And I'm like, no, I'm not that. I'm not that. Oh, yeah, lots of lots of broken bones forming in my gut. So I yeah, 22 different bouts of food poisoning I had when I was being being blurred many times, kind of black blood as well. Kidneys not being rare. And that was that was mostly because I was prioritizing getting from one place to the next, as opposed to looking after myself. I hope what you'll have is a better experience because you'll be able to look after yourself a bit more. Honestly, I compared to what you did, this is going to be like five star luxury. I've got like all my best mates coming.(...) Like it's like it's like my like, I don't know, like my hen do or something, which is like a really extreme one, because I've got like damn, one of my best mates, like organizing all the logistics. Joao and Becca doing all the opposite stuff. Got my you know, there's I think it was about seven or eight of us going out.(...) So, you know, for the large crew. Yeah, we're a large crew. So I kind of feel like it's going to be like, what's your what's your contingency? Give me that. I'm interested in these things. What's the contingency? So you start, you get them well, you go over an ankle, you know, day 17. What happened? Well, I think you know, Dan Bowman, he's probably going to deliberately trip me up the first day so he can do it himself. Like, so, so I don't know, like touch wood. I've I've not injured myself yet.(...) So,(...) so I haven't had that experience of like trying to run with an injury or anything. But I feel like to be honest, right at the moment, I run two businesses and I'm trying to organize Project Sort Run as well.(...) And we're filming this documentary at the same time. And I'm trying to do my training. I'm just like, when I get out there, all I have to do is run, eat and sleep because everyone else. So actually, I've I've I've been told that I shouldn't say this. My friend recorded me saying it the other day. I was like, I feel like that would be the easiest bit because like at the moment, everything feels like on an edge, like everything's still surviving, everything working, but all just going, yeah, it's going to it's going to work. I guess that's part of the excitement. You know, I think you're right. Yeah, I think you're right. I think it doesn't you know, there is a lot of hard work around the outside. And actually, the easy bit in many regards is the is the putting one in front of the other.

(...)

And so both the.

(...)

The the unseen element is what's in your head on day 45. When you're you're toughing it out, everybody's knackered. The glow of the day today has worn down to frankly mundane elements. You know, you have to look after each other. You have to have comms checked. You have to be a bit team now. You know, like when I did run Britain,(...) we know what was that?(...) Two two marathons a day for 100 days for 128 days in the end.

(...)

And having that mundane rhythm was fine. But after that amount of time when you are running for 12 hours a day, absolutely exhausted, you sometimes just want to hit pause and get out. So I would say regardless of injuries, accidents, ill health, whatever.

(...)

Being sick, I think it's what's in your own head. Making it enjoyable is the most important part. So just practice your practice, whatever it is to get you there. I wanted to ask you about that, actually, because obviously you've done the run Britain, you've done 100 marathons in 100 days in Italy, as well as running around. Just all these massive things. But you've completed all of them. And like I know and you touch on it in your book, which

(...)

we don't touch it. You talk about it quite a lot, actually, about just the financial struggle and pressure of doing doing it in general. And it's it's always surprising to me how little that is spoken about in the travel and adventure community about the real deep cost of putting on these adventures and things.(...) The truth is, I think people are not talking about that, not because they want to hide it, but because as human beings, we try not to let it rise to the surface. I think we're very good at kind of pushing those things that weren't quite perfect to the back of our mind. But actually, the finance and the stressful elements of that word is a real overspend on the world so much that

(...)

literally selling everything you could imagine just to make it happen. But the Britain, we would definitely over over the budget by quite some way. All of the the fundraising, all of the funding. It is a reality of doing this stuff. You just had to want to achieve what you're trying to set out to achieve enough.

(...)

And you have to be doing it for the right reasons. And I see that in you and I see that in a lot of people that do this sort of stuff, is if you're out there for the right reasons, then all will be OK. And kind of the world will look after you. But yeah, I have like I say, I have finished nearly all of what I've started. There's been some record attempts in my early days where I had pneumonia and had to restart things.

(...)

I mean, you know, Italy, I was injured badly.

(...)

What was it? Day six, day seven. Oh, no, that was Britain. Italy would take that. See,(...) Britain was days a six and then day 33 with broken bones.

(...)

And so you can get three things you just want to just want to push on. I think these broken bones from like getting hit by cars or just following or both. Both your face. You're like, yeah, we've got it because it's a podcast. But Joel's face, just like his eyes turn into sources, then. But if everything, you know,(...) I flip my meniscus on my knee on Britain, which is outrageously painful.

(...)

And that then kind of sorted itself out. And then I had a little stress fracture in my shin, which then fractured completely.(...) My right tibia. That's happened. I actually broken both my tibia twice.

(...)

So at least what you've and you're still an ultra runner. I know, right?

(...)

That's just that's just my body not being not being ready. And not only that, but giving it more than it had before. That's that's an element of it. So I think when you see not got injured, I think there probably will be some injuries. But I tried to think of them as just blips along the way, as opposed to the things that won't happen, you know, will stop. But it won't stop you. That's what I'm going to tell you from now on, Hannah. I'm like, it's just a blip. Exactly. Just a blip.

(...)

Yeah, just and she will punch me. I'm going to say, just keep in range. If she can't move forward that quickly, then that's perfect.(...) Shuffling around.(...) But touching back on kind of the the funding aspect, because it's just something that I love talking about, because it's like you said, I feel like people don't talk about it enough. You've done some really epic stuff like you raised one hundred and forty three thousand for prostate cancer UK. And with your experience with everything, I just wanted to ask you for people who are kind of getting started, you know, into their first kind of charity runs or or they're just interested in getting involved in a program for a cause that they really care about. Would you have any kind of like starting off advice from where you were from when you started to know where you are now? Yeah.(...) And the reality is, it doesn't matter how successful,

(...)

wealthy or well connected you are, finding funds to do cool stuff, even if it's for charity is a challenge. My experience is you have to have the most resilient thing you have to be in terms of being an athlete doing this stuff. This is financial,(...) more than physical or mental or anything else. You have to accept that you send ten thousand emails.(...) And I literally did send around that number to try and get funding for. And if you think of that, that's not an exaggeration. That's a lot of emails.(...) A lot of people working on my behalf do that kind of volume just to get just in front of people that might want to put a few quid in the pot to help us along the way. And it has to be mutually beneficial. He has to, you know, they have to want to do it for the right reasons. I think there's the happy kind of then diagram of if you send an email to say you're sending an email to a random bank and you know, the bank's got lots of money because they make loads of profit every year. The person that's reading that email has to believe what you're doing and like you. And that's hard on a cold email. They have to then maybe be interested in it as in be a runner or like travel. And they also have to have the funds at that time. So funds and timing kind of have to be in that then diagram of that perfect(...) Goldilocks zone of saying yes to funding.

(...)

And the chances of that happening are so slim. But most of the time, 95 percent of the time, those 10,000 emails will just not be read.(...) And if they are read, if you're very, very lucky, then somebody might ignore you.

(...)

If you're if you're really, really, really lucky, they might email back and say no. And if the unicorn moment that they email back and go, let's have a chat. And even then that chat may not come to anything. We were in a position with the world trip where we were very, very close to securing a big chunk of funding.

(...)

And the guy that was leading my cause to say yes to this funding

(...)

left to his position in this company and my contact disappeared. And we had to start from scratch. And that happens over and over again. So you have to be resilient to it. And you also have to not take it personally.

(...)

There's a lot of lot of money out there that can do good. And there's a lot of people that believe in you that you've just got to keep knocking on the doors. Yeah. I definitely got to say from personal experience that not taking it personally part is a hard one to. That was a hard lesson to learn. Well, yeah, I had two things there, which was learned it yet. We don't it doesn't matter if you're cool, wealthy or well connected. And we're none of them anyway, Joel. So if this is the first time this is not our disadvantage, that's a positive.

(...)

But yeah, I mean, I don't know what we're going to do. We just want to wing in a prayer at the moment, to be honest. We're figuring it out. You perhaps pretty much sums up any adventure that even the stuff that we've got planned in the future will be very much will be very much that. And that's part of the adventure, isn't it? You guys know that. Yeah. Any good ones anyway. Exactly. Any good one. Going to have a bit of a misadventure. So your book Running the World, was that was that the first book you ever wrote? Or yeah, I did a few I did a few magazine pieces and some smaller stuff. But yeah, that was my first published book. OK. And what you've written a few since then. What number you on now? Yeah, so number four is coming out soon. That's a photo book about five hundred and twenty eight pages, three and a half kilos of book, a huge, huge coffee table book of essentially charting the world journey.(...) So since Running the World came out, that was really successful. And I'm really, really honored that people enjoyed reading it and are still enjoying reading it. Then I did Run Bricson.

(...)

And then from Run Bricson, I went on to do another book on the Run, which was all about running all over the world, but different races, different events.

(...)

And I'm writing another my fifth. I'm writing a book which is charting my journey to two hundred thousand miles.

(...)

So talking about talking about what it's like to start running the journeys along the way, psychology, the philosophy, the injuries, the trials and tribulations and also a little bit of a I don't know, a love letter slash thank you letter to running to say this is what the hundred thousand miles has been like. So a little bit of a poetic philosophical book narrative on running and then a photo book. So yeah, that's all coming out this year and enjoying writing it takes time.(...) But it's good fun. But that's it. That's become your job, though. That's literally become your job with one weekend that you've managed to turn the thing that you love into the thing that you get to do every day, which which to me and Joel and actually I think pretty much everyone on the Project Sort 1 team is like, as long as we get to do work we love and we care about that makes a world better every day. That's like priceless. Oh, it is. It's wonderful. And there's the whole thing about what kind of freedom means to you. And I could go back to my old job and be on a decent salary and found some bonuses and have a fancy car and all this stuff. You know, when I get to my deathbed, what do I want my narrative to be? And it's not that that's the reality. I want my freedom to be in what I do, not the value of what's in the account.

(...)

And so, yeah, I'm very, very privileged, very fortunate and grateful that I get to I get to do this stuff. Run Weekends is, you know, it's striving now. I've done this for a few years, taking people away on some cool running trips all over the world and what we've got 28. Could you describe a little bit what Run Weekends is? Yeah, yeah, thanks. Run Weekends is adventure holidays, trail running retreats, groups of 16 people.

(...)

Me and a couple of others leading the trips will go away, whether it's running the length of Corfu, running the Larrup-Inter Trail in Australia,(...) running in Tonga, swimming with whales, running on the coast of Cornwall here in my home in Wales or other places like Uganda and Japan and where else have we got the French Alps, the Dolomites running in the mountains, hot hopping in the mountains. So just going away for anything from a couple of nights to 14 nights, 12 nights.

(...)

And it's casual. There's no racing.

(...)

It's for people that have done a lot of events that I really love their running, but have no interest on setting their watch and trying to be a time or trying to get a medal out of it. It's just go along, meet some lovely people and travel the world and do lots of running, which is essentially where I started, right? And so using my contacts from the world and brilliant friends, getting to the point where I'm here, we've got 28 trips next year.

(...)

And it's yeah, 28. That's, oh my God, that's huge. Basically the whole year.(...) None of them India, Joel. None of them India yet.

(...)

Yet. A yet. Yeah, that's it. There's still room on the calendar then. That could be that day 42 thing where I'm having a crap time. You just turn up with a bunch of ultra honors. I could turn out. Perfect. There we go. We'll have to set it up. We'll plan. I'll give you the itinerary and the map and everything. And all you have to do is show up. Yeah, do you? Because me and Natalie have been looking at doing a one weekend, Joel,

(...)

because she was like, "Did you know he does one weekends?" And we're just trying to find the date to match with all these(...) training runs that we're doing around the UK at the moment. Well, please come along, both of you, all of you. We've got lots of good trips. I mean, we're getting booked up even for next year. So if you want to come along, then just let me know. We can put all the details in the show notes for anyone listening. Because I think we've got quite a lot of runners in the community who are just also

(...)

looking to find other people that want to have those sorts of adventurous holidays.(...) And I think sometimes I speak as a woman of a certain age. When you're a bit older, it's harder to find people that can do that with you because your friends have got kids or whatever.(...) So just having the opportunity to be able to get on a group trip that's like, you've already know you've got something in common with the people that you're going with. Well, two things. One, a love of adventure and two, a love of running. It's like a really great way to meet new people. Yeah, you're right. And that's why it kind of created so many people like, oh, are you doing, you know, you got to do a run here so we can come and run with you. And I was like, well, actually, why don't we just go and do these trips? And you've got the contacts and I know the countries.(...) And it also gives me a perfect excuse to go back to all the places that I love. So I'm not complaining. That's not all you've got planned coming up. It sounds like you might have a few other. Yeah, there's a few things coming up. So we have, I mean, this year is predominantly run weekends.

(...)

Next year is kind of the final planning stages of the next big trip, which is probably going to take place from 2027.

(...)

And coming back to our conversation around funding,(...) it's about making sure we've dotted the I's and crossed the T's with making sure that the funding is done and dusted before we start. I've learned from my mistakes that it is stressful as we've discussed. So it kind of we're starting the mission when we've got everything sorted. The next mission is going to be to try and break the record for the most consecutive marathons run.

(...)

And this is hopefully the existing records turn out to be 260 days, but I'm hoping to do a thousand days back to back marathons and do it. Every day, every day for you and any careers. Oh, my God.

(...)

That's that's the plan.

(...)

Literally, I look like a frozen on the screen.

(...)

With my body.

(...)

It's going to be it's a hell of a mission. And if you guys will know for the most logistics, the planning, the organizing, the shift patterns that we're trying to organize for crew to come and go because three years is essentially in that time, people can meet, get married, have babies.(...) So if that happens with the crew, you know, we have to we have to make sure that the whole three years is planned. So that's it. The idea is that we're going to do it all over the US and North America.(...) Also, is it this is because you were talking on the ritual podcast about you wanting to go over to the States and yeah. Yeah. So this is this is it. We're going to do all the all the states, all the state pats, the coast. And the idea is if the finance works out and we could do the Pan American running because the Pan American zigzagging is roughly roughly a thousand Americans. So who knows? Well, you got to let me know, man. I know you know it. And I did it. We just been there. We'll have a couple of all these. There are so we are in you need someone with experience and you happen to have the perfect CV. There we go. You know how me and Joel got back in touch? Nick, he literally just sent me an email in November the day I was two days before I went for a planning weekend with Dan and Nina. And we hadn't spoken in like what, seven years or something. Oh, my God. We just happened to be at the world travel market. And I was kind of like, we haven't seen Hannah ages. I wonder if she's around.

(...)

Yeah, just worked out. Can I face time? You can I face something? He's like, yeah. And I was like, what are you and Becca doing next year between October and February? They were like, nothing. And I was like, right, you're coming to India. So yeah, your biggest, your biggest, the biggest question, I think, for your Pan American ventures, if you want to do either there's the Prudhoe Bay route, which is the one we did, which is in the States. And then but then there's also the the old native trail route, which goes through Canada, both of which gets you up to the Arctic Ocean. Yeah, technically, I think that's the I think that's yeah, I think we're going to essentially it's going to be top to bottom.(...) We won't follow any official route because I have to get it zigzag a little bit. And it may be depending on what charities we get involved, we may just do it in in in North America, depending on what happens with family situation for me,(...) and whether or not we go through Central and South America, just the logistics.

(...)

Yeah, but yeah, that's, that's the plan. Anyway, 2027 ish, and I will, lots of lovely people will help host the the run weekends and the run weekends will shift to the US for a few years. So I can essentially run trips while I'm in this mission. So good.(...) What what a five year plan. Where's yours to Elle? What are you doing?(...) You've just come back from doing that.

(...)

Yeah, but even even being in for the last little while, I'm already starting to itch to get back on the road, I think it's already kind of one of those, which is good because we've got something set up for for October.

(...)

What date what date do you sell?

(...)

So we're gonna be I don't know if you know the event blue Earth summit, and then we're gonna fly over to New Delhi on the 20th and then start running on the 25th of October in Pakistan, hopefully.

(...)

I don't know why we chose that day. Because it's 25 1025. I just like numbers. I think you love the number. All good adventures begin just random, random preferences. And I really I've always wanted to go to that, actually. Yeah, that'd be brilliant. Wait. Yeah, well, it really sounds like if you're a new beginner going in, you know, like I said, I'm not I'm not a huge runner myself, but hearing about your trips like going through, you know, from hut to hut, or something like that. Like I love backpacking. I love hiking. And that could con me into running from there's a lot of Yeah, there's a lot. Yeah, I mean, when you're in the mountains, there's so much hiking, walking, chatting, and just dragging your feet because it's exhausting. But yeah, I mean, the Dolomites and Patagonia and all that kind of place they are. They're wonderful Patagonia would be insane. That would just be February next year.

(...)

Nick, thank you so much for joining us really such an amazing story.(...) Really inspiring. Thank you for all the advice. We're going to need it. Well, if you if you're on the road and you need a need a chat, Hannah or or call in. Yes,(...) yes. And you'll have a wonderful time. And I have made out that it will be a success. And I mean that in the in the real terms that you'll come away from it. Absolutely loving the the journey.

(...)

It's obviously not about the finish line as we all know. Yeah, exactly. And for your own trips, Nick, if obviously we'll put all the info that we have on you in our bio, but if somebody wanted to follow along with with your ventures in the future or or or find your book anywhere, where were they need? And I mean, the best thing just to search for my name, Nick Butter, another website will come out my website or run weekends.(...) Everybody can see what what trips we've got on. You'll see my charity. You'll see all of the other bits that exist. All of the books, they're all Amazon. So nice and easy people to get hold of.(...) Amazing. Thank you.

(...)

Wowee.

(...)

That's all I can say about that.

(...)

I'd like to caveat anyone listening to the podcast.(...) I'm embarrassed about the fact that right at the beginning, he started asking me questions and then I just I have no ability to tell a short story. So I just started banging on about the hedge with him. So I apologize about that. That podcast should have been all about Nick. I think you were fine. Okay, good. Yeah, I don't think. Thanks, mate. A lot of time. That makes me feel a bit better. Well, we're putting it out for the whole internet. You decide. Yeah, exactly. There you go. Yeah, let us know in your readings. But please be nice.

(...)

No, I loved I think it's probably one of my favorite interviews because I feel like it just it was just so easy and it just went down so smooth and he's just such a cool guy and a handsome. He's a handsome man. I can say that as a married guy. I get to say he's a handsome man. Yeah, you get to say that. Yeah, I do. He's he's a great guy and he has some he had he's got some cool stuff coming out as well as his run weekends, which I'm definitely going to try and see if I can wangle one free India as a training weekend or something as well as those he talked about that coffee table book, which sounds amazing because the photos that he's put in the book. So I've read a really good. Yeah. So just just just to let you guys know, I will not be taking any good photos during projects. Well, I'm I am not that talented. And if you see my Instagram, I can barely make a real. So I definitely sit in the category of I've got quite good taste, but no skill when it comes to creating the features. So I'm sure it will be it will be fine.(...) Maybe maybe that's something we can aspire to. Maybe we can make our own little coffee table, but it'll just be more Hannah's faces throughout the run. Yeah, lucky you. I mean, I want that for myself. So I don't know. Always make what you want, right? But also what I what I loved about that interview is one, he had some weird self-belief that I would be absolutely fine breaking loads of bones and carrying on, which I would just also like to caveat is not as hard as Nick Butter. And I don't want to be so.

(...)

But I'm very impressed that he went through everything he went through and just what an incredible thing to be the first person in the world to do something like that. But we still didn't get the answer of that. Why? You know, that why that I don't know why I want to run the hedge. And the same way he didn't really know why he wanted to run every country. But I think it's one of those like it's more of a philosophical question, right? Like why? Like why? Why? You know, why does anybody do anything kind of.

(...)

Oh, God. Yeah, time for that. This is just the outro. Let's leave that. Let's leave that for a late night on the road. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you so much, everybody, for joining us.(...) Yeah, I had a wonderful conversation. And if you would like to look into any of Nick's books or any information on him, we will leave the links in the bio below. And thank you so much for joining us. We will catch you guys next time. Stay forever. See you soon.