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Green Fix
S2 E2: Can Kids Change Corporate Climate Thinking? with Damon Gameau, Film Director
Filmmaker Damon Gameau has made a career of turning complex sustainability challenges into compelling, hopeful narratives. After his groundbreaking documentary 2040 inspired climate action worldwide, he noticed something extraordinary while visiting hundreds of schools – today's children possess remarkable knowledge about environmental issues yet lack meaningful platforms to share their insights beyond protest movements.
Future Council follows eight remarkable young people from different countries as they board a yellow school bus for an epic European road trip to challenge and collaborate with executives from major corporations including Nestle, ING, and Decathlon. What unfolds is a fascinating journey that reveals the unique value children bring to sustainability conversations – their "unbridled, refreshing creativity" and "much-needed morality" that cuts through corporate complexity.
The film captures the evolution of these interactions beautifully. Beginning with confrontational energy at their first corporate meeting, the children gradually develop a more collaborative approach as they recognize that behind corporate facades are human beings often trapped within complex systems. By the final meeting, they've discovered their superpower: offering fresh perspectives that even sustainability professionals hadn't considered. As Gameau explains, "I don't think we need the children to solve all the problems...but they do have something to offer right now."
Beyond documenting these meetings, Future Council addresses the growing epidemic of eco-anxiety affecting 60% of Australian children. Rather than avoiding difficult emotions, the film shows young people processing their climate grief and channeling it into meaningful action – a powerful model for viewers of all ages. The film also introduces the concept of "Groth" (growth without wisdom) to explain our flawed economic architecture in accessible terms.
Most remarkably, Future Council has already catalyzed real-world change, with several featured corporations committing to ongoing work with council members. Australian retailer Officeworks is now collaborating with them to design regenerative products, with profits partially funding nature restoration. These tangible outcomes demonstrate that bringing children into corporate conversations isn't just about making them feel heard – it's about tapping into unique perspectives that generate novel solutions adults might never consider.
Ready to experience a refreshing approach to climate action that will leave you feeling both challenged and hopeful? Watch Future Council and discover how intergenerational collaboration might be the key to addressing our greatest ecological challenges.
Your Hosts:
Dan Leverington
Loreto Gutierrez
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I think what they offer, their real superpower in this moment, is this really unbridled, refreshing creativity, which we're really lacking. I think so many adults have got intertwined in the complexity of the system. We can't really get our way out of it. We're a bit ensnared in it, and the kids do stand separate from it and just go hey, what about this? Have you thought about this? That's a real strength and also they bring a much needed morality right now.
Speaker 3:Welcome to the Green Fix, the climate and sustainability podcast for Australian corporations and their ESG practitioners. We explore the top challenges and opportunities in the industry and how it impacts your business and your work. So that you can keep your sanity. I'm your host, Dan Leverington.
Speaker 2:And I'm Loretta Gutierrez, and today we are joined by Damon Gamow, a well-known Australian director, producer and documentary filmmaker. He jumped onto the country's radar with that Sugar Film, which became the highest-grossing Australian documentary of all time. He then followed up with 2040, where Damon imagines the future of his four-year-old and how the use of already existing solutions have resulted in humanity not only reversing global warming, but also improving the lives of every living being in the process. 2040 was not only a major box office success, but also inspired significant climate action, including the raising of millions of dollars for climate solutions. It also sparked thousands of students and organisations to engage in sustainability efforts around the world.
Speaker 3:Eamon is now back with his latest doco Future Council, following eight young people on the best kind of school excursion no, not to Canberra, but instead boarding a yellow school bus for an epic road trip across Europe to both challenge and collaborate with powerful corporate leaders to find solutions to our greatest ecological challenges.
Speaker 2:Damon, welcome to the Green Fix, so glad to have you here with us. Both Dan and I have had the absolute pleasure of watching the Future Council movie ahead of its release and we are so stoked to hear more about the film and for our listeners, who may not know your work or may not know what you've been up to since 2040 or the Sugar film, can you tell us about you and this new film, future Council, or?
Speaker 1:the Sugar film, can you tell us about you and this new film, future Council? I guess, first and foremost, I'm a dad of a five-year-old and an 11-year-old, two girls which keep me on my toes, and I guess over the last 10 to 12 years, I've really gravitated to telling stories, but stories that instigate some kind of change or shift. I've really come to see how potent storytelling is and how underutilized it is within our current culture. It's often used to perpetuate particular narratives and values that I don't think are serving us as human beings. It's certainly not serving our relationship to the planet, and so it's stories of how we've always evolved, it's how we've helped to shape our values and culture. There's a real need to tell better stories. That's really what my focus has been since the sugar film. How do you tell stories that enlighten people while educating them, inspiring them and hopefully nudging them towards making some kind of change in their own life, which then might have a ripple effect for the larger consciousness?
Speaker 3:And with 2040 and now Future Council, from a long format perspective, you've really built up a significant body of work that highlights pressing environmental issues. With Future Council, you've chosen to blend youth with corporate leaders. What was the genesis for this project and why did you feel that now was the right time to bring this conversation to the forefront?
Speaker 1:This came about because of releasing 2040 around the world, and part of that release was doing countless school visits, probably in the hundreds and of different schools and classrooms around the world, and I was just blown away by the level of acumen that these children have, particularly around sustainability. Sometimes, as adults, we can project our own childhoods onto these children and we really underestimate how much information they're being exposed to right now more than any generation in history and a lot of them are able to really pursue topics that they're passionate about, and a lot of those kids are passionate about sustainability. It just felt like there's a huge generation here with some knowledge, but there's nowhere for them to express that knowledge other than taking to the streets and protesting. But even that, they were kind of shut down and it feels like it wasn't really supported. It felt like there was a huge gap or a need to have their voices amplified, and that then kickstarted this idea of Future Council.
Speaker 1:I was approached by a production company in the Netherlands who said we want to do something with kids. We don't know what it is. Can you just go away for a couple of months and think about some ideas? So I went in to lock myself into a room with a friend and came out six weeks later with a rough idea of what we might do. And this is the magic of film Next minute you're casting these children from around the world. Next minute you're flying them in to meeting their parents, you're finding out their eating preferences, and then you're driving a big yellow bus with them on it, with a coach behind them full of parents and three camera trucks, and you're snaking your way across Europe. It's just so beautiful. I just love this life and what we get to do sometimes, and what can start as a little idea suddenly is manifest right in front of you. It's extraordinary. I just felt like the timing was so right for this, to give these kids a say and you've seen the film now.
Speaker 1:I think what they offer, their real superpower in this moment, is this really unbridled, refreshing creativity, which we're really lacking that so many adults have got intertwined in the complexity of the system. We can't really get our way out of it. We're a bit ensnared in it, and the kids do stand separate from it and just go. Hey, what about this? Have you thought about this? That's a real strength and also they bring a much needed morality right now.
Speaker 1:As you know, many corporations, many CEOs probably, are acting quite blindly in their pursuits and not really considering humanity enough, sometimes certainly not the planet enough. And the children? Just by simply being in the room with those people and saying, hey, what would your children think of the decisions you've made in the last quarter? That has a profound impact. A simple question like that that makes the CEO humanise again and think about what they are doing. I don't think we need the children to solve all the problems. We can't shift all the burden onto them. We can't expect them to understand the complexities and ins and outs of this big system. But they do have something to offer right now and that's the point of the film. They bring a magic that cuts through all the debates and the graphs and the rhetoric and the nonsense that we get caught up in, particularly in this field. They are just these pure human beings that are asking for a better future and there's something very, very potent about that.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely, and I loved how some moments were so raw and so impactual and you can see in some of the kids just the anger and the frustration in their face because they cannot understand why we are so disconnected. I'd love to ask around the expectations between what you thought was going to happen and what actually happened. So bringing kids in corporates is like oil and water. What were your initial expectations on how these two groups would be interacting and what did you learn from bridging the generational, but also that ideological gap throughout the film?
Speaker 1:There's definitely a huge element of surrendering and trust. When you're telling a story, making a documentary the ones that work aren't overly scripted or planned you really do have to trust that you're going to get very authentic moments and if they're not authentic, the audience sniffs them out straight away. I think it was a lot to do with the casting making sure that the right children were chosen. We had almost 1,200 children to choose from, which was really very hopeful. Just watching those auditions and we could have taken probably 500 kids. But watching those auditions, and we could have taken probably 500 kids, but these eight really chose themselves, they just emerged.
Speaker 1:There are many ways this film could have gone really badly. One was if we'd cast the children wrong and they were too precocious or pretentious and little upstarts, and also that if I had engineered the journey too much and it felt like it was me saying something but using the children to do it. That's what I was hypervigilant about. Whenever we went to meet the CEOs, it was really around. Okay, here's who we're meeting tomorrow. Here's their website. You guys go and do some research about what they're doing. I'm not going to tell you anything. You've got this hour and a half on your own. You just put up your hand when you want to say a question and I'll help steer it. Let's see what happens. It might be difficult, it might be uncomfortable. So I had no idea what was going to happen, including the young girl, Sky from Wales who you alluded to there, who really just wound up and teed off and she was very emotional afterwards by that. But she said, look, I just knew I'd never get this chance again, I'd never get this close to someone in this position, and I just had to say it. The emotional courage for her to do that is just extraordinary. So, look, it was really interesting.
Speaker 1:It was a delicate process, as you can imagine, to even get approvals to allow the children in there. There were all sorts of caveats around transcripts and all sorts of things. That was a constant dance to make sure that this was truly reflective of what the children were saying in those rooms and it couldn't be steered in any other direction. So that took a lot of digging deep and back and forth with legals and all sorts of things. But you know, an incredible learning experience for me when you take these bold, bright, brave kids into risk-averse corporations and, as you can see in the film.
Speaker 1:By and large it's been a really terrific result and the companies we did meet have really lent in and want to support the real future council now that the children have set up and said look, we want to invite other kids just like us from around the world, and we've been really surprised at the level of support there. So we're even doing a couple of trials with companies now. One is Officeworks in Australia who want to work with about 40 council members to design some regenerative products that they can use and put to market and the kids can take to school. And we'll take a clip of some of the profits there to go into a nature repair fund. So I do think this is a moment where people are open to this.
Speaker 1:We all know, we all feel what's happening. We know we're not heading in the right direction. We're all a bit uncertain about the future we face and I think there's much more deeper consideration for those children now and let's see what happens. As we move this and roll it around the world, there'll be some companies that want to do it in a perfunctory way, but the kids are very, very clear that they don't want to work with anyone unless they really do want to make some meaningful change. They know it's complex, it's not going to be easy. In their terms, they don't want to be adult washed and they don't want to be greenwashed, because they do know their stuff.
Speaker 3:We're going to come to adult washing, because Loretta and I were saying that the amazing thing about that term is it could only be created by a child.
Speaker 1:That's right. There's no corporate take on that one. That's pure.
Speaker 3:Considering how much room you had to give the children and the production as a whole.
Speaker 1:How did you think about the audience type that you wanted to be making this for, and and and to be seeing this from the start through to to now, I think sometimes a uh, definitely a disappointment in in psychological storytelling that the space that I work in, that sometimes we have not been quite as strategic as we could be in the way we've told our stories and we've really ostracized a huge part of the population that need to be brought in here, or we haven't humanized the story enough. It's quite detached for people to watch nature docos now. It sort of feels a bit removed. It's a bit of a spectacle. We've almost objectified nature in a way. Um, my good friend, paul hawken, politely calls it eco porn, but it's true it's sort of like we get to see these things and we're quite detached from it and it's a beautiful glacier and penguins and what, but it's not really connecting to us. Um, and that's no one's fault. I can understand why that's happened and and so I was very determined to not do that and you've seen the previous work I've done with 2040 or region oz. It's like, what is the human role in this regeneration or better future? How can the human benefit? It's really important if you want to bring people along for the ride, so I guess that applies to this even more so. Um, there's this opportunity to hear from people that haven't been heard from before, which is those children and and children are. No matter what your political persuasion is, no matter what you believe in in the world, we've all, we can all the world, we can all relate to children. We can all relate to deep down wanting them to have a better future. So what if we could cast the right children, as you said, that weren't precocious, that were just very honest and authentic in their expression? Is there a chance that that might unlock some unlikely types or people that haven't considered this before? And I've certainly seen that happen already in our previous screenings or some of the festival screenings. The husband that's dragged along reluctantly by the wife or the children is like oh gosh, that shocked me. I didn't think I was going to feel that way. Or those kids actually made me cry or feel some kind of hope. We've got to do something for them and I've seen already kind of miracles occur where people have given the children money to support their projects or they've wanted to support them. There's just been this ripple effect that's come already, without the film even being out, of people wanting to make this future council real. So I don't know.
Speaker 1:I didn't go in with a specific target audience. I guess it was similar to Sugar or 2040, where it was a family event. We'd come and watch it together and have that chat on the way home in the car, which worked really well for the previous films and then it's a shared experience. You're all aligned as a family to have this really important discussion and I love that about film, especially the Q&As in the rooms and the screening tour, this beautiful chemistry that happens in a room full of people that have had a shared experience of the story and then offer up these valuable pearls and advice and wisdom. This is the power and potency of story. You don't know what impact it's going to have or which person's going to see the story, but it could end up actually changing the world and I've seen that with sugar films.
Speaker 1:Parliamentary screening with Jamie Oliver that led to a sugary drinks tax. Emmanuel Macron watched 2040. Nothing in my wildest dreams when you make the film. But this is what happens with story. It travels further than you can imagine and it can unlock people in ways you can't imagine.
Speaker 2:Dan and I discussed at length whether this is a movie for kids or for adults, and the obvious answer is a superb both right this is the same debate with many festivals we had around.
Speaker 1:We're like we don't know whether to program this in the kids section or the adults. It's true it's also. What's lovely is people underestimate the humor. You know that the children have such a beautiful way of seeing the world and a very funny take on the things that again, we don't do enough of that in our environmental filmmaking. There's not enough laughs. I get why, but if we want more people to watch and bring their families, they're not going to sit there on a Tuesday night after a busy day and watch how the reefs are falling apart. We all know that we need to give them some hope in the things we can do and there's no reason why it can't be entertaining at the same time.
Speaker 2:And speaking of the kids, we were curious to find out what the process was of finding these kids, who were so incredible and insightful. Could you walk us through the process of choosing these young voices, and what were the qualities that you're looking for in the kids.
Speaker 1:There are a number of sites around the world, platforms that people can apply to for all the various reality shows that are going on right now, whether it's you know, you know singing shows or the america's got talent, so it's quite easy to plug into those and say, hey look, we're looking for some children to come on this adventure. And then I did a couple of social media posts as well, and probably had 150 mothers writing to me saying you've got to take my, my son or my daughter. They're so perfect for this. I can't tell you. It was great, because the level of passion and enthusiasm and support for the project right from the beginning was just so beautiful. And then, going through all these submissions, I had someone Faye Wellborn who was an absolute angel, to help start to disseminate all of these 1,200 auditions that came in, and we asked each child to make a video to share some thoughts about what they're passionate about, why they want to come on the trip, what areas of interest do they have. And, as I said, just watching through, though, I just felt this incredible jolt of hope of how switched on these children were, how in their hearts and passionate they were about making change. And then it was tough to try and work out gosh how are we going to distill this down? And then Faye helped me get it down to about 300. And then I just sat down one night and I just watched it through and each one just picked themselves. As soon as they came on screen I said, oh, you're coming on the bus. And there was just something about their honesty and integrity and the essence. It wasn't really what they were doing.
Speaker 1:I deliberately didn't want to take people that were really high achievers I mean, obviously there's some in there, like Joseph and his recycle company, which is an extraordinary story, but it wasn't about that. They had to be just the right type of children that would bring the right essence and energy and be open and willing to go on this adventure. And what was so validating was the first day we arrived in Europe and they'd all flown in from different countries. There were eight different countries. They flew in from all different socioeconomic backgrounds Couldn't be more different some of them. But they just met each other and went you're just like me and you're in another part of the world, but there's three or four of me in my classroom and I think I'm a bit of a weirdo, but now I'm not, because there's people like me everywhere around the world.
Speaker 1:And that's the beautiful thing of what the Future Council is fast becoming is this network for those children that have felt a bit ostracized or a bit weird for caring so deeply about birds or the oceans or plastics. Now we get to say, hey, come here, this is great, let's connect you to one another, let's connect you to the right experts, connect you to the right companies that do want to make a change, and let's actually use your passion and generate and turn into something really special so you get to shape and design your own future. It was a magical process. And then, as you saw in the film, just the way that they all connected over the month of us traveling and by the end, that last scene in the film, which is my favorite scene, where they're all just sitting around and just highlighting the best in each other and what they learned from each other. What a lesson that is for adults in terms of their level of emotional maturity and ability to see the best in each other.
Speaker 2:It's just very, very moving. Yeah, it was very touching the final scene, one thing that you said in the film really resonated, which was our action is stealing the future. Our lack of action is stealing the present, and that was really moving and in a very beautiful way of presenting the challenge. So how did you observe the eco-anxiety manifesting in the children during the filming and what role do you believe this adult washing plays in perpetuating this?
Speaker 1:It was very clear straight away in the first couple of days that all of them were carrying this heaviness with them and I think I knew that was going to be the case. But it still surprised me that they are so immersed in what they do and so passionate that you know you have to take with the bad with the good, and sometimes that balance has been really out for them. And I think the other surprising pressure which maybe a lot of parents don't understand is this, this sense of needing to do more, which Ruby expresses beautifully in the film film. It's like I don't feel like I'm doing enough. I'm even on this trip, but I'm hanging out with all of you guys, but I still look, I'm just a singer. What am I? What am I doing now? Most adults, I think, can relate to that sometimes as well. So their ability just to be so honest with their feelings was just really really potent and I think what I love about that scene in Switzerland was that we're able to give them the space to express that, because it had been bubbling up for a few days and it was like, okay, I need to convene something here to let them get it out. I didn't know what was going to happen, and obviously you saw how deep some of them went in that moment. But what that did is it sort of gave them permission, I think, to express that and then, as you saw, they moved very quickly into action and their moods really change.
Speaker 1:And I think there's a big lesson in that for adults, because so many of us we are sort of climate deniers, but not in the way that we imagine. We're denying the reality of what's actually looming upon us and there are so many easy outs now, from scrolling to Netflix, to a glass of wine, whatever it is we don't have to go and feel those deep feelings anymore. And I think there's a great problem that comes with that, that repression. But also it doesn't allow us to actually face the reality so we can feel it and then get to work and get to action. So we just keep holding it at bay or pushing it away or just ignoring it, and I think that's largely why we haven't taken the meaningful action that we have been. We're either in denial or we just don't want to know that it's happening, whereas these children were brave enough to actually sit in the reality of that and express it, which, again, that scene elicits all sorts of emotions for adults that watch it, because the kids give permission for the adults to feel that way, and we should feel that way.
Speaker 1:We are nature. We're watching nature be eviscerated and destroyed, and so we should have big feelings. You know it's very normal, but we haven't created that society or environment for it to be okay with that, and so I think that's where the children are so powerful. Um, what was lovely is that then you know it was like this is okay to have these feelings, it's normal.
Speaker 1:Just make sure you don't dwell on them too long. Make sure you find space to be a child and to play and to find joy, because that's the thing that's going to sustain you. And wow, if that isn't a great lesson for anyone in the space, whether you're an adult or a child, and that's probably what the children taught me over the whole time how you take this serious mate sometimes and you get all pretty earnest. Don't forget to be playful and in your heart and be a child and make sure you still celebrate all the beautiful things that we do still have in nature and Hever, the little boy from Norfolk, said that to me.
Speaker 1:I know, in this Belgium forest, I know that one day there would have been 2000 birds in this tree, damon, and it would have been so loud and beautiful. But there's still five or six. And look how beautiful they are. Let's celebrate them, and even that switch from scarcity to abundance and go wow. Let's celebrate the fact that they are beautiful and they're singing here right now. That does change you, and that's from an 11-year-old that had that piece of wisdom. I do think we undervalue these children at our peril.
Speaker 3:They've got so much to offer us right now and if we can just curate their voice in the right way and it's tricky to get that balance right they can unlock and they can create wonders if we give them that platform I actually wanted to commend you and the crew for that scene where one of the kids was unable to speak because they were so emotional and you acknowledged that, recognized that and then asked if they wanted to go for a walk and like I think it's really important for that to be in the film, because it's not. We're on this heroic journey and everything was sweet. There's real peaks and troughs and you're watching the kids go through that. The other bit was Ruby's song.
Speaker 3:After the meeting at Nestle, on the bus, the kids start joining in with her music, which was so moving and fascinating point on her journey from what am I doing here to where she ends up Beyond the film. What were some of the insights that you picked up on Future Council from a storytelling perspective when it comes to effectively communicating complex climate issues to diverse audiences? Yeah, just a quick aside on Ruby.
Speaker 1:She's just gone on gangbusters already, even since the film's been out, and she's signed with Universal Music, now with EMI, and she's released a couple of singles. And I've seen her sing a couple of her songs now, even inside the UN last September, and she's just for someone that was a bit unsure about her value and superpower to watch her move audiences by singing about this stuff and again using a different form to sort of get to people's hearts. It's just so magical and all of them have just really found their own power and ability to speak clearly and succinctly about what they're passionate about, which is really beautiful. I'm glad you pointed that out. One of my favorite parts of this film is this idea of this, the fairy tale that's woven through it, this idea of Groth and what Groth represents, cause I was trying to find a way to explain to the children, I guess, the complexity of this system, but try to articulate to them that ocean plastics aren't separate to emissions. You know, these things are actually deeply linked and they come back to a flawed architecture, and so Groth really is about this mythical creature that starts out as quite benign and helps these villages to exchange goods between them, and it was all done with the right intentions.
Speaker 1:But as we've moved on and we discovered energy and fossil fuels, that ability is ramped up and our ability to mass produce things. Now is the problem the extraction, our continual demand for energy. Even though we're putting all this renewable energy into the system, it's not making the dent it needs to because we keep growing bigger and bigger each year and that's quite a difficult concept to explain. And and that was the fun part about storytelling so growth is growth without the w and w is for wisdom. So it's growth without wisdom and that's what we've created.
Speaker 1:So the whole mission of the film for the kids is how do we tame growth, how do we rein it in again and grow with wisdom? Because we still want to grow, we want to expand renewables and regen ag and seaweed all these things, yes, but do we need mega yachts and foot spas and the countless items that descend up in landfill six months later? That's not growing with wisdom. That's the beauty of storytelling you get to try and distill these big concepts into ways that people are going to relate to in the film. But then the ripple effect is the mums and dad for the sitting in the audience who go. Oh yeah, I knew that. Yeah, I knew what groth was son. Yeah, I knew, but maybe you've shifted their thinking a little bit as well. That's the Trojan horse element.
Speaker 3:In terms of the corporate side and the corporate engagement, you managed to get in front of three multinationals, and not just any multinationals right Head of Corporate Affairs from Nestle, the CEO of IN ing and the chief sustainability officer of decathlon uh, some of the most recognizable names in the world, which responses genuinely surprised you, either positively or negatively. And that can include the companies who didn't take you up on the offer to to be involved a lot didn't, as you can imagine.
Speaker 1:I think we alluded to that in the film and and I get why there was a. You know, I think Coca-Cola would say how that conversation would go. You do need to commend especially Nestle. I guess Nestle probably expected that it was going to be easy going for them either, that they were willing to have these conversations. So it took a fair bit of cajoling and the few contacts that I had or relationships that I've built up through previous work, and so I think there was an element of trust there.
Speaker 1:And this is the fine line because and the children sort of articulate in the film as well is that yes, there's a label and some of these companies are not doing the right thing in many areas. But once the children got in there and they went oh shit, these are human beings as well and they've got kids, so they're actually humans working within these organizations and and that was good for them to see that sometimes there are really good people working these organizations but they are trapped in this system, which is what the analogy of the ants was in the film is that we're sort of all running around in a circle and we've got to please our shareholders and we've got to keep growing even though we're doing all this damage. So sometimes it's not necessarily the people, it's the system that they're trapped in. That said, there are obviously very bad people, or largely psychopathic people, in some organizations that definitely need to be sternly addressed, but I think that was. What was lovely about this was that the children realized that activism plays an important role. We need people to kick the doors down, but for the big changes we also need conversations and we also need things to happen from within, because it's too easy to dismiss those activists and just lock the doors and call them crazy, whatever. That's not to say they aren't important, but how do we actually get within and have the change start to take place there? We sort of need to approach this from multiple angles, where I think sometimes we can get very binary and think there's only one way to do it. So, yeah, that was a really interesting journey, especially when it came to the edit.
Speaker 1:All the companies wanted to see transcripts but, to their credit, they largely didn't want to change much. There's a couple of little tweaks we had to sort of argue on and push back on, but overall I would say it was a really great learning experience for me and that the majority of these companies really yeah didn't want to just stop now. They said what else can we do? And particularly ING, have lent right in and they've got 40,000 clients. They're talking about what programs can we develop? How can we get the Real Future Council to meet our clients? How can we help you roll this out around the world? They're even supporting giving money to the real future council. So very exciting.
Speaker 1:By what this? What can happen? Because you get a couple of those at that level leaning in and it gives permission for other corporates that might be risk averse to lean in as well. And, as you said before, we all know the time is now and let's listen to these kids. They are. They're not they're not a type of child that you can just pass away or do something perfunctory with. They are real and they can offer a great value to your organization. In fact, they'll bring you insights that you couldn't have imagined yourselves. And, what do you know, they're also going to be your customers, probably in the future. So why wouldn't you consult with them and get them to design the products they're going to buy from you down the track?
Speaker 2:Yeah, what an amazing outcome, I guess, for our listeners who haven't seen the movie just yet. The meetings were very, very tense and there were some interesting insights shared from all sides. But what do you think were some of the most challenging or difficult responses to hear from the corporate side and how did you see those impact the children?
Speaker 1:So it was a really interesting process. Nestle was first and the children had come into that. As you can see, with quite an activist bolshie energy. Right, we're going to challenge. This is what we're going to do. We're going to shout these guys down. I hadn't expected that level and so I challenged my own ability to not want to interfere. I just had to sort of step back and let them do their thing. And then we had that beautiful conversation afterwards, which was really great and surprised me, where the kids were quite split as to how that went and some of them went. You know what. I think he actually did want to help us and he did want to listen, but sometimes we can just shout him down or assume they're a certain way and so we don't actually listen properly. That really fascinating conversation. I think they then took that learning into ING and you probably could feel that was a little softer. There was a lot more sort of collaboration. It was still a bit of push-pull and I think Skye asked a beautiful question there where she said how do you think your grandchildren will think of you being involved in this time of history and funding huge pollution projects? That's a provocative question for an 11-year-old to ask the CEO, and I think he largely handled the children well. He certainly.
Speaker 1:After that, maybe their bubble was a little bit popped, because I think after that conversation they realized how complicated the system is, that it's not just going to change easily by a bunch of kids getting in a boardroom and going right, can you do this? There are all these other stakeholders and elements at play that keep the system going. So that was really really fascinating after that one. But by the time we got to decathlon, that whole dynamic was completely different. The children said, right, how can we work together? What do you want to hear from us? What can we offer? Have you thought about this idea? We've researched this and you saw her reaction, anna. Who's just like. Who are these kids? They're telling me things that I didn't know about, and I'm in the sustainability department, and that's the magic.
Speaker 1:Right there we found the magic, which is this is what the children can offer other corporates is to bring a fresh approach and thinking that they hadn't considered and steer them in an interesting direction or at least take on board some of these suggestions.
Speaker 1:That's the superpower. There's definitely the challenge, but children don't want to scare companies away and think, oh, I don't want to meet the future council because, gosh, they're just going to hold us to account. Yes, there'll be a light bit of that, but actually this is a collaboration and design and exciting research project more than anything, and that's really what the children have been pushing. We want this to be fun and, in fact, they've just recently written a manifesto which is so spectacular, which will be on our website by the time the film comes out, and it's just a statement about what they want the future council to be, and it's just beautiful and precise and eloquent and speaks to all the things I've just said far better than I can do it, because it's coming from them so, with that manifesto, what do you see as some of the takeaways that australian businesses can take from not?
Speaker 3:just the manifesto, but also the film.
Speaker 1:Bring them in. Bring in the children to the conversation. It's the number one way to alleviate any eco-anxiety. You see, reports show that and it's now 60% of children in Australia are feeling some sort of eco-anxiety 60%. So the way to buffet that is to let them feel like they're being heard and to take action.
Speaker 1:Companies have a great opportunity. They don't have to look under the whole bonnet and you don't have to feel like you have to hold their hand, but just to consider their ideas. Let them feel heard, make some suggestions and, as office works are doing all right, let's let them design the products that they're going to use. It's such a great match and the kids suddenly are coming up with new ideas and materials and it won't be single-use plastics and nothing worth a landfill, so it's materials they want to use anyway at school. It's a benefit for the company, they're getting a win and the kids are getting a win and there's money going back to nature repair.
Speaker 1:So what's not to like about that? It's a great opportunity for any organization in Australia or around the world when we take it here. If you want to do it properly, come and hang out with these kids and get ready to be blown away by some of the ideas that they're going to offer up that you hadn't thought of before. They will enhance your business and make it better, and you're helping them at the same time. So it's just such a good fit and the timing's so right. Why wouldn't you do it?
Speaker 2:You met with an organization called Faith in Nature and at the time they've been the first organization to bring nature as a board member. Could you elaborate a little bit on this particular idea and how it can be integrated into corporate decision making?
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, it's interesting, they were the first and this was a while ago. It was probably four years ago now, but it's certainly in the UK and Europe. It's sort of caught fire. So there's lots of different organizations doing it now. There's heads of nature, there's all sorts of new appointments, even office works have a head of nature and a head of circular economy. The basic premise is that you know, so many of the decisions that the companies are making are having an impact on nature that nature should be represented in the room in some way, and so they developed a governance framework that allows that voice to be represented by ecologists, environmentalists, other experts that come together and, you know, assess supply chains or decisions or materials used, as though it was nature making that decision, but just brings a very different voice into the room and and they said that really had a huge impact on the materials they use and where they ship things from. But it was just what it did to their staff, the staff knowing that they're working for a company that was really deeply considering nature and giving it a voice. That was the unforeseen consequence that really had a profound impact on them.
Speaker 1:I think there's an opportunity to do that. We're obviously saying why not talk to children? But as well, we know how much we've just treated nature as an externality in this system and to our detriment, and it's kind of still remaining largely blind and we're doing all this damage and it's not measured in any way. If we make it visible, we will consider it, we will start measuring it, and it's just been invisible for so long.
Speaker 1:This is one of many ways that a company can start to think more about how they are treating the planet, and it's got something quite cool about it. It's going to appeal to staff. It's just a lovely idea to give nature a voice and there is a legal framework to actually do it. Now it doesn't have to just be a nice kind of hippie idea. It's actually locked in quite robust framework that a company can apply. I hope that's one of the things that happens from people seeing this film is that they consider how they might better do that and think about a new approach to that working with the children but also putting nature on their board and valuing nature far more than they have been.
Speaker 3:We're wondering, you know, future council in particular, but you can think more broadly what are the ways that you measure the impact that you're having when, the way you described it at the top, it's kind of like you drop a rock and the ripples go out? How do you personally think about that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's an awesome question because this has been something we wrestle with all the time, especially early on when we were trying to raise money and a lot of our work couldn't be done without a network of philanthropists and families that have supported our work really generously. And early on it was tricky to know how do you do the reporting when we're so used to these financial metrics of return. How do you measure social impact or social return? So we've sort of really had to invent and find ways to do that and usually it's one of our donors going oh, I was at a dinner party and someone was waxing lyrical about 2040. And we could proudly say that we supported that. So there's the social currency that kind of happens, which I think sometimes worth more than the financial. But there are ways. Things like now, like what I'm most proud of with 2040, for example, is the curriculum materials. I think there's over three million children that have been taught those curriculum materials. What ideas that's planted in the minds of some of these children about their future or what they might want to do, or engineering or you know, with EVs or setting up microgrids in their communities. Who knows what those curriculum materials kickstarted? Also, the action plan that we developed for there for 2040. So you know, you didn't just go to Google and say, right, what can I do to help? And it's change a light bulb and ride your bike to work. Suddenly there was an action tool that you can fill out and we've had, you know, over 100,000 people fill that out, which has led to the millions that have been raised for the climate solution. I'm wearing this hat today, which is seaweed Fremantle, because a guy said I watched 2040 and I started my own seaweed farm in Fremantle.
Speaker 1:This is the way you measure it. It's not easy, but you can start to see little ripple effects that happen, and the same happened with sugar. It wasn't just me, it was a confluence of a lot of events. But start to seeing all these labels of zero sugar or no sugar. You know that okay.
Speaker 1:So this storytelling is making a difference, it's impacting in a certain way. So you know there are lots of different ways to express it. It's not easy, but I think it's just more of an awareness thing. If people have heard about it, if their kids have seen it, that's when we know we're doing really well. Or if I get these random phone calls from people who tell me who's seen it or whatnot, and what it led to. That's what I know. That just keeps me going. You just never know, even if there's 10 people in a cinema and you think, gosh, that was a pretty tiny audience, one of those people might be someone that you could never imagine, that goes and starts a seaweed farm or does something else. And that's what keeps me going, and to remember that these stories do matter.
Speaker 2:It's beautiful to think about storytelling and what it can do and the ripple effects it can have. We're very inspired, both of us, and very grateful that you've created this film. So, before we part ways today, we thought we'd end with a rapid fire, whatever's top of your mind. The first question for you, damon, is do you have for our listeners a recommendation, which can be a film, a book, a podcast, a song?
Speaker 1:good question. Question yeah, well, definitely more of that, more songs and stories listening to than podcasts, because sometimes we could just bombard ourselves with sort of rational information. I feel like we need to dream more or be in our hearts more. A podcast I would recommend that is just so beautifully curated and is in your heart is a podcast called the Emerald, and he looks at our current, I guess, dilemmas in society, but through a mythological and sort of mythopoetic lens and so very deep cultural references around AI and climate, but just done through a really beautiful storytelling lens and he puts them together in such a magnificent way. So, yep, I recommend the Emerald podcast.
Speaker 3:One of the biggest areas of investment for the Green Fix podcast has been in the creation of the Green Fix magic wand, and so we're going to give that to you, and we would like to know what was one thing you would like to achieve with your magic wand in the next five years.
Speaker 1:Well, I think I'm biased, because obviously I look at the world through a story lens and I feel like we are living a collective story and this is why the endless graphs and the facts don't really matter much, because it's the underlying story that affects our behaviors and our decisions. So if I could wave my wand, I would go back and retell the story, probably have to go back to the Enlightenment and even a bit earlier maybe, into religion and make humans not detach from nature and make humans understand that they are connected, deeply connected to nature and they're not separate to one another. And then I would let us build a civilization of that story instead of the story that says we're separate and superior to nature. The design of our buildings, our internet, our transport systems would be so spectacular and different because the underlying story would be different.
Speaker 2:Wonderful use of the magic wand.
Speaker 1:Great, thank you.
Speaker 2:Very glad we invented that. What is one piece of positive climate news you've heard recently?
Speaker 1:Oh yes, of positive climate news you've heard recently, oh yes, well, probably what's happening, because I know there's just still so much misinformation around renewables and EVs and things like that, which is a bit hair pulling sometimes, I get it, but I think what gives me hope is the longevity that's coming up of some of the panels. I think they're going to have like a 60-year lifespan pretty soon, which is pretty, pretty extraordinary and be recyclable, and also that most of the batteries that are coming through now are using less of those damaging materials, which is really hopeful. And again, 96 to 98% of those batteries can be recycled. So we can get to a point not too far away where we're just not even having to extract at the level that we are now and dig up and damage the earth in the way that we have been. We can just keep reusing the materials that are already in the system, and that gives me huge amounts of hope.
Speaker 3:Um, because that was sort of unthinkable 10 years ago and final question uh, who has inspired, you on your journey that you think we should interview on the green fit?
Speaker 1:well, I've been very lucky to have developed a very deep friendship and he's almost well. He's a mentor to me and that's paul hawken, who did project drawdown and and he did regeneration, the book. And I was only in america a couple of weeks ago and part of my jet lag before I went to new york was to stop in san fran with paul and and walk through the muir woods there and all the redwoods, for we did a five or six hour hike through there and just um, what a privilege it was to just sit and pick his brains and chat with him. He's almost 80 now, paul, and so, um, yeah, I know that if you're up for it, I could not happily message him and I'm sure he'd be more than happy to come and chat to you. Um, and he's a very, very special human with a lot of wisdom to impart that would be amazing.
Speaker 3:Well, that's an epic chat, damon thanks, damon, this has been a lot of fun, really appreciate the support and, yeah, good on you.
Speaker 1:Thank you for the kind words and excited to get it out there.
Speaker 2:This was Green Fix with your hosts Loretta Gutierrez and Dan Levington. We hope you enjoyed the episode. You can send us your questions or tell us who you'd like us to interview next at info at greenfixpodcastcom. You can get your Green Fix every two weeks on Apple Podcasts, spotify, youtube and Pocket Casts.
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