Green Fix
Welcome to the Green Fix, the climate & sustainability podcast for Australian corporations and their ESG practitioners. We explore the top challenges and opportunities in the industry, how they are impacting your business and your work, so that you can keep your sanity.
Green Fix
S2 E4: Insurance and Climate Disclosures: From Risk to Opportunity with Vicki Mullen, Finity Consulting
Vicki Mullen, Senior Consultant at Finity Consulting, takes us deep into the world of mandatory climate disclosure as Australian corporations transform what might seem like a compliance burden into a strategic advantage.
Drawing on her 30 years of experience across public policy and financial services, Vicki explains why viewing climate reporting as an exercise in "business imagination" creates unexpected opportunities. She explains how the Australian Sustainability Reporting Standards require companies to test their resilience against different climate futures through scenario analysis – examining both a rapid transition to net-zero and a "hothouse" scenario well above 2°C warming.
The conversation reveals how insurance companies have functioned as early warning systems for climate impacts, with the increasing severity and frequency of natural disasters already affecting their business models. Vicki shares practical advice for companies navigating potential legal pitfalls between greenwashing and "greenhushing," emphasising the importance of backing climate commitments with robust data and meaningful plans.
With renewable energy now approaching 50% of the national electricity mix and nearly half of standalone homes equipped with rooftop solar, this transformation creates enormous potential for innovative products and services, highlighting why forward-thinking companies are responding to shifts in consumer preferences.
Whether you're in a large corporation preparing your first Sustainability disclosure, a smaller company trying to understand your reporting obligations, or a sustainability professional driving change within your organisation, this episode offers invaluable insights on turning climate reporting from a compliance exercise into a commercial advantage.
Listen now to discover how breaking down organisational silos and fostering cross-functional collaboration can help your business not just survive but thrive in a climate-transformed economy.
Vicki's recommendation for our listeners:
Funny Weather: Art in an Emergency
Olivia Laing
Your Hosts:
Dan Leverington
Loreto Gutierrez
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Having a constant eye on today's risks and what that might mean for the risks of the future. That is very much at the heart of the climate disclosures regime, where reporting entities are being asked to imagine what the climate physical risks and what the transition risk will be over the short, medium and longer term. It's about having a risk mindset and also an opportunity mindset. What does climate change mean for our business? What does it mean for our stakeholders, our investors, our customers?
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Green Fix, the climate and sustainability podcast for Australian corporations and their ESG practitioners. We explore the top challenges and opportunities in the industry and how it impacts your business and your work. So that you can keep your sanity. I'm your host, Dan Leverington.
Speaker 3:And I'm your host, loretta Gutierrez, and today we are in conversation with Vicky Mullen. Vicky is a senior consultant with Finity Consulting, providing services for clients in regulatory affairs, climate disclosures and strategic reviews. Vicky holds a Bachelor of Arts and a Master of Laws degree and she's a graduate of the Australia Institute of Company Directors. Vicky has 30 years experience in public policy and financial services. She has worked for a large Australian insurer and a global reinsurer, and she has also held senior roles with the Insurance Council of Australia, the Financial Services Council and the Actuaries Institute.
Speaker 3:In her earlier career, she worked extensively within government, including roles with the High Court of Australia, the New South Wales Parliament, the New South Wales Cabinet Office and Senior Minister. In 2023 and 2024, she was the lead reviewer for the independent review of the Australian Carbon Industry Code of Conduct. Vicky, welcome to the Green Fix. 2023 and 2024, she was the lead reviewer for the independent review of the Australian Carbon Industry Code of Conduct. Vicky, welcome to the Green Fix. Thank you for having me. It's lovely to have you with us. Can we start by sharing with our listeners what led you into the climate and actuarial space?
Speaker 1:Like many of my peers and colleagues, I happened a little bit accidentally into the insurance industry, and that will make sense in a minute.
Speaker 1:Some years ago, when I was working for New South Wales Parliament, we did a big public policy review into an industry scheme and through the course of that review I got to know many people across the insurance industry, including actually some of the actuaries that I work with now and, as you can imagine, coming involved in the general insurance industry, that inevitably led into roles where climate risk started to really feature significantly in a whole range of work that we were doing, in particular, when I was at the Insurance Council from 2012 to 2016.
Speaker 1:That was a period marked by significant political uncertainty in Australia around our national response to climate change I think people refer to the notorious climate wars of the time and perhaps a significant pivot point at that time was in September 2015, when Mark Carney, who at the time was the governor of the Bank of England, gave a into the work that was done at the Paris COP in November 2015, which then led into the commencement of the development of the climate risk disclosure framework. So I've been watching Mark Carney's pathway ever since that speech that he gave, which was a phenomenal shot across the bow, not just for the insurance industry, but globally for the whole financial services sector.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I actually think that feeds in quite well into the mandatory climate disclosure framework, now known as the Australian Sustainability Reporting Standards, and the requirements within that for disclosures by organisations in relation to the future risks and opportunities they face, as well as their plans for business resilience. This may be creating some uncertainty in the corporate sector as to how best to approach this. How do you think reporting entities are responding at the moment?
Speaker 1:It's a mixed bag and, as you know, those larger corporations that are in Group 1, certainly it's our observation that they are well underway with their planning to meet the various disclosures that will be required imminently.
Speaker 1:We understand that the first sustainability reports under this new regime will land in February, march 2026. So we're getting pretty close to seeing the first results of corporations doing this work. I think there is a level of concern and anxiety across the sector about how to go about doing this and what we say to clients that we work with is just start, put your pen on the paper and start somewhere and bring your subject matter experts together and just start having the conversation. So I think perhaps what I could say is that, hopefully, what we're seeing is some of the anxiety levels are dialing down and reporting entities are beginning to crack on with what they need to do, which is a whole range of things. So I think we're seeing good, good progress is probably how I would say. But there's a long way to go and we will be very interested to see what comes out in those first sustainability reports fairly soon from the larger corporate entities that are probably pretty well resourced to do this work.
Speaker 3:And, vicky, you've said in the past that it's important to view this mandatory reporting as a productive exercise in business imagination. Why do you think that's so crucial?
Speaker 1:So it's a great question.
Speaker 1:One of the key aspects of the disclosures regime is the need for reporting entities to test and assess their resilience in the face of climate change risks, those risks being physical risks and also transition risks.
Speaker 1:So a part of the disclosure framework is that companies actually are required to use scenario analysis to test their business resilience. They're also asked to disclose how they might use scenario analysis to actually identify their risks and opportunities associated with climate change. I think what it does. It takes corporates away from the usual hindsight analysis and reporting that they would typically do for their financial reporting that is currently required, and it asks directors, senior managers, subject matter experts to think forward, not just within the business planning cycle, which is typically two to three years out, but well ahead of that. So we're talking timeframes in the near, medium and longer term, right out to 2050. As we all know, it's almost impossible to predict or forecast the future beyond next week. So what the reporting framework is really asking people within companies and businesses to do is to use their imagination beyond just what the actual current data is telling you, and scenario analysis is the way that actually creates a framework to execute that forward thinking.
Speaker 2:Can we dive a little bit more into the climate scenario analysis piece? Because of all of the areas that companies are having to upskill themselves on, the climate scenario analysis piece is the biggest black box, if you will. Companies are used to the scenario analysis from a commercial perspective, but utilising the climate scenario analysis is something that most of them would not have done. Can you give us a high level, why it's important, where it's come from and how companies can start thinking about it?
Speaker 1:Absolutely, Dan, and the governing legislation for this regime helps in that it specifically requires the use of two climate scenarios, one being linked to the low global warming scenario of 1.5 degrees global warming, and it also asks companies to use a second scenario which is well above two degrees warming. So it's basically asking companies to test their resilience in accordance with a rapid decarbonisation across not only our economy but obviously globally, and then test their business resilience in basically a hothouse scenario. So the legislation helps to an extent. I think the other aspect that will help reporting entities undertake the scenario analysis is keeping an eye to the data that will start to flow through some of the industry sectoral plans that are being developed, for example, by the net zero economy authority within the federal government. So there's a lot of data that we know we need, particularly with sectoral decarbonisation plans, so we can help understand and imagine what is actually going to happen across the economy, in regional areas, in specific industry sectors, and then how that will actually impact, for example, the demand for particular products and services.
Speaker 2:In terms of the risks that individual industries or companies are having to prepare themselves for. So we're talking about transition risk to an extent, but the physical risk seems to be the one that makes companies sit up a little bit straighter as they start to think about what is the impact on their operational capabilities, what is the impact from an insurance and investor perspective? How are you seeing, particularly on the operational side, companies start to evaluate their exposure in an area that traditionally has kind of effectively been left up to the gods when it comes to a planning perspective?
Speaker 1:That's a great comment about. It's in the lap of the gods, almost quite literally. This is where the insurance industry is so interesting, and I can't help but refer back to Mark Carney's speech delivered at Lloyd's of London, which was so, so important. The insurance industry, in a way, has been the canary down the coal mine, for obvious reasons that insurers insure people's homes and their businesses, and we have been seeing for some time now increasing severity and frequency of some of the key events that are actually covered by insurance. So people would be very familiar with, sadly, with the impact of floods and bushfires. So these are risks that are covered, typically covered by insurance policies. So insurers have, for some significant period of time, been watching this and obviously have been becoming increasingly concerned about the impacts of those events on their portfolio of risks and on the affordability and availability of insurance for policyholders across the economy. What we're seeing now is different industry sectors beginning to take notice as well, and the one that I would probably call out would be the health sector and obviously, in that space, private health insurers as well.
Speaker 1:People would be very familiar with the current impact of heat waves. We're seeing horrific heat waves occurring right across Europe at the moment and lives lost that are directly linked to the increasingly severe heat waves. So I guess what I would say is that the insurance industry is well seasoned in its understanding of what's in the pipeline in terms of potential increasing risks of natural hazard events and how that impacts their business and their portfolio. We're now seeing other industry sectors really beginning to take this seriously, and what I'd like to call out is heatwave in particular, because heatwave is not typically an insured risk, but it's possibly one of the most significant natural hazards that sadly, we're actually seeing the fallout of that around the world in real time.
Speaker 3:Vicky. That actually is a really good segue to our next question. I would love to talk about reinsurers. This is one area that we've never really covered on this podcast. There's a lot of pressure that reinsurers are putting on the insurance companies regarding climate change and risk exposure. We'd love to hear more about the role of the reinsurer and also the relationship between reinsurers and insurers and how the global nature of the insurance industry makes climate reporting so crucial for companies, not just those that are directly facing the physical climate risk.
Speaker 1:The best way that I can describe the global insurance industry, if you can imagine a spider web literally around covering the globe and obviously, when a very severe event happens in one part of the world and the insured costs of that event are very significant, that event will reverberate through that protective web and it will get soaked up and absorbed by not only the reinsurance industry but what we call the retrocession market, which is insurance for reinsurers.
Speaker 1:So it's a very complex global industry and collectively it's a massive shock absorber financially for these really severe events. What I would say is it's very difficult, in terms of any one particular event, to create a direct correlation between that event and what's actually happening in pricing, because different insurers will have different arrangements with their reinsurers and through their treaties and whatnot, in terms of how those treaties are structured. But what I would say is that there's certainly no doubt that globally that the figure around insured losses is creeping up above what you would probably typically expect on the basis of hindsight data. So these increasingly severe events are certainly being taken very seriously and it's interesting that a number of the global insurers, including some global reinsurers, are beginning to come forward with their own disclosures around what they will underwrite in terms of high carbon industries, and so this is definitely flowing through into how they're basically insuring the world.
Speaker 2:And when stakeholders across organizations first start looking into this space, the immediate reflex is we'll just calculate our emissions and we're sorted, and then we can take it from there. But at least we know what our baseline is. But what the insurance angle shows is that this really does bridge the gap to quite significant legal risks for organizations if they're not prepared Under these new regulatory standards. What are some of the key considerations that companies need to be aware of and how can they proactively manage these legal risks that they potentially have exposure to?
Speaker 1:That perhaps sounds a little bit simplistic, but my common, typical response to that is mean what you say and say what you mean. Fairly simple concept of don't act in a way that's misleading or deceptive, and that's the actual standard under our corporations legislation. And that leads into this big conversation around greenwashing and in the context of companies being required to disclose metrics and targets for their own decarbonisation journey. It is very important for those disclosures to be based on really good data and to be very clear about if you set a target, to have an actual plan to meet that target, not just some target off in the distant future of 2050. To say now that you want to be net zero by 2050 and not have any specific planning sitting underneath that commitment and interim targets just won't cut it anymore. So we've certainly seen that happen in the past. But the climate disclosures regime is now requiring reporting entities to have clearer plans, to have interim targets and to be very clear that those metrics and targets are based on very good data sets.
Speaker 3:So financial institutions regulated by APRA are already familiar with this type of reporting. What lessons can other sectors outside of financial services, in particular those that are less experienced with sustainability reporting, can they take from the likes of APRA regulated entities?
Speaker 1:The best way I could summarize that would be a prudential approach to risks and also to opportunities. So banks and insurers and super funds are in what I would call the prudentially regulated sector. So they've got decades of experience of having to deal with a regulator that's specifically designed to create standards so that banks and insurers and superannuation funds are still around in 5, 10, 15 years to meet the promises that they make to their customers. So that's the concept of prudential regulation. Other sectors across the economy are not subject to prudential regulation.
Speaker 1:On today's risks and what that might mean for the risks of the future, that is very much at the heart of the climate disclosures regime, where reporting entities are being asked to imagine what the climate physical risks and what the transition risk will be over the short, medium and longer term. It's about having a risk mindset and also an opportunity mindset. What does climate change mean for our business? What does it mean for our stakeholders, our investors, our customers? And let's take steps so that we're fit for the future and we can actually help our customers and our investors on that journey with it. So it's really a risk and an opportunity mindset.
Speaker 2:And it's such a good example of why the financial ecosystem plays such a role because, by their nature, many major players in that space are thinking long-term returns and, with the climate disclosures expected across the entire economy, how do you think this comprehensive disclosure will improve the analysis and the predictions of funding that's needed for the climate mitigation and adaptation across Australia?
Speaker 1:It's such a complex question, and the reason why I say that is that the way I see what we would probably call the need for climate mitigation funding and adaptation funding is, to me it's very much a public-private sector cooperative approach.
Speaker 1:So what I'm looking forward to, Dan, is the inception of climate disclosure regimes for the public sector as well, because I think that's where we're going to get the absolute strength. When we've got the disclosures coming from our corporations in the private sector, and then when you can match that up with the disclosures around emissions and around transition pathways coming from our government departments and agencies, that's when we're going to get a national picture and that's when we're going to get some clarity around where the funding needs to flow to make our whole economy resilient. It doesn't really make an awful lot of sense for the private sector to be trying to transition and adapt in the absence of those of similar transition planning and adaptation planning for things like health services, education services, housing, transport. This is obviously all interconnected. So my hope and wish is that in the not too distant future, we'll have a very clear national picture about what needs to be done and where the funding might come from. It is very much a public-private joint effort.
Speaker 3:That's a really interesting point and leads very well into timelines, right? So what are the timelines that we're actually going to have the availability of this information and the timelines in which Group 2 and Group 3 companies are actually going to start to see the impacts of the reporting from Group 1 and the further demands on their own organizations? There is still a lack of awareness in these Group 2 companies regarding the mandatory sustainability reporting. So, beyond government bodies, what broader outreach initiatives do you think are necessary to ensure this economy-wide understanding of the framework the best?
Speaker 1:way for entities in Groups 2 and Group 3,.
Speaker 1:Obviously just keep an eye on the media, Constantly watch the website of ASIC, because we certainly expect and anticipate more really great guidance to come from ASIC.
Speaker 1:Asic has said itself that it will be publishing further guidance for reporting entities in due course and one of the things that can particularly help those companies in Group 2 and Group 3 is to keep a close eye on those first sustainability reports that we're going to get from Group 1 companies through the course of 2026.
Speaker 1:It's my understanding that ASIC will be monitoring those first sustainability reports and providing some further detailed guidance for Groups 2 and Group 3 or for any reporting entity In that transition period, the first three years of the reporting regimes. My best advice would be to watch, to monitor, to learn from what the Group 1 companies are doing, understanding that Groups 2 and 3 are smaller entities and they may not have the material risks that might be cropping up with the Group 1 entities. Keep an eye environmental awareness around what ASIC is saying and doing and further guidance that we will get from the regulator, and keep a close eye on what the Group 1 companies are doing. I expect there'll be some really great sustainability reporting coming out through the course of 2026 and we can certainly learn a lot from those first movers.
Speaker 2:And I think that leads quite nicely into what are some of the pitfalls that organisations should be avoiding on this track between greenwashing and green hushing in relation to the Australian Sustainability Reporting Standards and ASICS enforcement.
Speaker 1:Yes, this is potentially a source of anxiety.
Speaker 1:Understandably is that no company wants to inadvertently put out information that is misleading, and I think we've seen a couple of the big actions that ASIC has taken are typically in the investments superannuation space for larger companies that have put out information that really wasn't entirely correct.
Speaker 1:I'll go back to the comment I made before is say what you mean and mean what you say.
Speaker 1:Make sure that if you put out any statements or information about your transition planning, including your pathway to net zero, make sure that you've got good interim targets and good data sitting underneath it and just crack on with it, because I think that there's been a risk that has been called out by ASIC of companies, because they're fearful of inadvertently being guilty of greenwashing, to then go too far in the other direction and not put out any information at all. Asic has made a very clear statement that that's not acceptable and I do think again, as we see some of what I hope is really high quality reporting coming from Group 1 companies, group 2 and Group 3 companies can get some comfort about what best practice looks like in terms of making disclosures, including forward-looking statements on some matters. So, again, it's just a matter of keeping your eyes and ears open watching what Group 1 does, keeping an eye out for what's coming out from ASIC in terms of supporting guidance, and just get on with it and leverage the benefit of your subject matter experts in your team. That's great advice.
Speaker 3:So looking towards the future, beyond compliance, what are some of the less obvious but significant advantages for Australian companies that proactively and strategically approach their climate disclosures clients? What are some of the less obvious but significant advantages for Australian companies that proactively and strategically approach their climate disclosures?
Speaker 1:The huge opportunity for all reporting entities is to use the climate disclosures framework to identify opportunities to support their investors and, more so, their actual customers.
Speaker 1:And one of the things that I get really excited about is the increasing demand from families and householders and small businesses and big businesses.
Speaker 1:Most people want to decarbonize their own life, whether that be their home life or their business, and I can certainly see enormous opportunities for Australian corporations to get with the program and understand what the changing and shifting consumer demand is, because there is enormous opportunity and, while many reporting entities might be concerned that this new framework is really just a compliance exercise, it can be so much more than that. It can actually be a really interesting exercise of imagination, for example, to think what does the home of the future look like? What does a home in 2035, 2050 look like? How will that home be powered? What types of insurance or credit products or solar installations, or what are the products and services that the homes and the businesses of the future need? And how exciting is it that we are in a very genuine transition to net zero? And we often talk of concerning climate tipping points in the wrong direction, but I think that there are some big tipping points potentially going to happen across homes and businesses in terms of the energy system transformation that's underway.
Speaker 2:There's a report that came out for Q3 that said that Australia averaged 47% of the energy mix from renewables and the expectation is by the end of this year we will hit 50%.
Speaker 1:It's incredible. Who would have thought five, 10 years ago, particularly given the climate wars that I've referenced? And here we are In fact. I'll add a couple of extra data points to that.
Speaker 1:There are about 8 million standalone homes in Australia. That's putting aside strata schemes and apartments. My understanding is that we're getting close to 4 million of those 8 million standalone homes now have solar panels on their roof. About 300,000 of those homes have home energy batteries. So you can see the pattern developing here. The federal government now has in place a 30% solar battery rebate system and the demand for that is apparently already enormous. Our solar installers cannot keep up with demand. So we are looking at a situation where it is quite feasible that by 2040, 2050, nearly every standalone home in Australia will have solar panels on their roof and they'll have at least one, if not several, batteries. Not only will these homes be energy efficient, they can join virtual power plants with other local homes and businesses and start selling energy back to the grid. So this is why I say there are some exciting tipping points, and reporting entities really need to watch these data points and this transition as it's developing, because the consumer demand is shifting for all sorts of products and services.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is very, very cool. So our listener is often someone who works within sustainability or is interested about sustainability how they can help bring it into more of a core operating pillar of their business Over the next three to five years. Where do you see the opportunities for such individuals in this evolving climate and sustainability landscape?
Speaker 1:Gosh, I think, regardless of how big or small your business is, be that person who gets with the program, tunes in and just follows what's going on. I go back to consumer demand. Keep an eye on what's happening with homes and businesses and how the consumer demand and consumer preferences are shape-shifting, because they are that person in your business that keeps an eye, for example, on some of the really great data that we expect to come out of the net great data that we expect to come out of the Net Zero Economy Authority. We are going to have a much better understanding of what's happening in our key industry sectors including things like energy, transport, agriculture and understand what's happening across the economy and then bring that intelligence back to your business. Be that person who brings that into your business and helps your business understand how they can actually adapt to the shifts in the economy and the shifts in consumer demand and consumer preferences.
Speaker 3:Amazing, vicky. It's been such an insightful conversation today and you have already shared so much great advice for individuals and corporations, so let me ask you one last question on that vein before we get into the rapid fire. What is the single most important message that you would want Australian businesses to take away about mandatory climate disclosures?
Speaker 1:Get your team together in a room and ask them to imagine the future and, as we've discussed before, climate scenario analysis is the tool to use to help people on that pathway. But we have certainly seen in working with a range of clients that the breaking down of silos within the business and the bringing together of your experts across your value chain can deliver some really exceptional results. Imagination and forward planning it's amazing. Thank you, Vicky.
Speaker 3:Dan, should we get into the rapid fire?
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. What is a thought-provoking book, podcast or article that you would like to share with our listener, Vicky?
Speaker 1:I recently read a book called Funny Weather Art in an Emergency, and it's actually not to do with climate change, but it's got a perfect title by an amazing British writer called Olivia Lang. And I have to confess, I've got a 20-year-old son at home who's an aspiring actor and director, so we are absolute theatre and art enthusiasts, and what Olivia Lang does is she. It's a call to arms. Actually, her book was published in 2020, as you can imagine, at the end of Trump V1, and, I think, at a point in time of some despair, and her call to arms is to where everything seems to be really grim and most things don't seem to be working very well.
Speaker 1:The solace that one can obtain through art, music, theatre is immense, and in this book she's got a couple of love letters to some of her favourite people, including one of my favourite people being David Bowie. I've now got a beautiful photo of David Bowie on my wall and when I feel a bit grim and glum, I look to David and I think what would David Bowie say or do in this circumstance? So I guess it was a beautifully written book called Funny Weather, which, bizarrely, is not actually about climate change, but it is relevant to a point in time where it is very easy to fall into a state of feeling everything's very grim and glum, but there are some chinks of light and I certainly source enormous solace from the arts and from beauty and things that are aesthetically really pleasing. So that's my book recommendation.
Speaker 3:Thanks, Vicky. It's gone straight into my read list. So if we gave you a magic wand to change one thing in the world, what would you do with it?
Speaker 1:That is such a big question. My magic wand would be to harness the energy and enthusiasm and spirit of our young people. I think they've got the most to lose with what we're facing into. The magic wand would be let's do everything we can to help our young people deal with this. And so it's about creating the opportunities for us to transition.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that. And to take us out on a high Vicky, can you please share one piece of positive climate news that you've heard recently?
Speaker 1:So I'm going to go from macro to micro here and, as you've revealed, I had the absolute honour of being the lead reviewer for the Australian Carbon Industry Code of Conduct. So I got to learn an awful lot about Australia's carbon markets and it's a fascinating emerging market. My good news story is I can't say who or where or with whom, but one of my very dear friends, she and her husband, have a property out in the central western New South Wales and they're about to embark on their own carbon project. They're very engaged with the whole concept of regenerative farming. So my good news story is the micro sense is it's the little wins and the collection of some of the smaller projects that hopefully, are going to get us to where we need to go.
Speaker 2:Love it. Collaboration 101. Yes, awesome. Thanks so much for joining us today, vicky. We knew that this was going to be a very enlightening conversation and it absolutely has been. We know the insurance market in particular is going to play such a huge role. We know that it is one of the areas that has the most volatility potential for a business over the next few decades. So thank you for coming in and sharing your insights and your wisdom and, yeah, we look forward to seeing you again soon.
Speaker 1:Thank you Dan, thank you Loretto, thank you Vicky.
Speaker 3:This was Green Fix with your hosts Loretto Gutierrez and Dan Leverington. We hope you enjoyed the episode. You can send us your questions or tell us who you'd like us to interview next at info at greenfixpodcastcom. You can get your Green Fix every two weeks on Apple Podcast, spotify, youtube and Pocket Cast.
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