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The Modernisation of the Australian Economy, a COP30 debrief with Beth Dowe, Climate Leaders Coalition

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Heat, forests, and hard choices: COP30 in Belém turned climate ambition into a street‑level experience. We have our first return guest, as Beth Dowe, Executive Director of the Climate Leaders Coalition, comes back to the Green Fix to unpack what truly moved the needle at COP: a global push to triple adaptation finance by 2035, Brazil’s big bet on the Tropical Forest Facility, and the fierce debate that stripped fossil fuel roadmap language from the final text while igniting new conversations at home in Australia.

Listen in to hear about the real action inside the pavilions where governments, business and civil society intertwined, and why that proximity matters for turning high-level pledges into projects. 

Beth shares how Australia’s signature on the Belém Declaration creates pressure to refine the Safeguard Mechanism and rethink diesel rebates, even as our COP31 hosting bid fell short. With Minister Bowen confirmed to preside over negotiations, we dig into how Australia can still raise ambition, shape rules and attract global capital to clean energy, critical minerals and value‑chain innovation across the region.

Beth shares that it was Nature that took centre stage in the Amazon. We explore how net zero strategies actually depend on halting deforestation, why more than half of global GDP is tied to nature and how the Taskforce for Nature-related Financial Disclosures (TNFD) is evolving from disclosure to design through pilots that reimagine products, sourcing and end‑of‑life. 

We also spotlight Indigenous leadership across COP. From the Great Peoples’ March to calls for early engagement and Indigenous‑informed governance to include pathways to co‑ownership in minerals and nature markets, this legitimacy is a prerequisite to investment. 

Finally, we talk about language that lands: swapping 'decarbonisation' for 'modernisation', treating efficiency as the silent moneymaker and scaling what works through trusted business coalitions and pre‑competitive collaboration for at-scale positive impact.

Subscribe, share with a colleague who cares about climate and nature strategy and leave a review to help others discover the show. 

What’s the one change you want Australia to lead next?

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Dan Leverington
Loreto Gutierrez

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Beth Dowe:

Being on the ground at Cup is a great way to get out of your fishbowl and reorient in a more global perspective. Having the opportunity to talk to people about their journeys, about their country's journeys, and the lessons that they're learning and novel approaches that are being taken and how they might inform Australia's journey, is really valuable.

Loreto Gutierrez:

Welcome to the Green Fix, your sustainability, business and technology podcast. I'm your host, Loretta Gutierrez.

Dan Leverington:

And I'm Dan Liverington. And do we have a special episode for you today? We're thrilled to have our very first guest come back to join us. Beth Dow is the Executive Director of the Climate Leaders Coalition and has just returned from Belém, Brazil, where she attended this year's COP30.

Loreto Gutierrez:

This year's COP framed itself as the implementation COP, prioritizing the protection of tropical forests and the urgent translation of the Paris Agreement pledges into tangible action. The summit focused heavily on bridging the gap between ambition and reality, resulting in a global commitment to triple adaptation finance by 2035 and a drive to secure more rigorous national climate plans through the Mission 1.5 plan. So, Beth, welcome back to the Green Freaks and welcome back to Australia. Thanks very much, Lord and Dan. Great to be here. So, Beth, before we get started on the conversation and hearing more about your takeaways from COP, for our listeners who may be new or just um starting to understand about the COP process, could you tell us what is COP and what do we expect to achieve from COP? Great question.

Beth Dowe:

So COP stands for Conference of the Parties, and it's the annual United Nations Climate Change Conference, where around 200 countries meet to essentially assess progress on climate roles and to negotiate future action. There's a few different parts to it. So there's the formal negotiations, which essentially assess progress against the Paris Agreement from 2015, which was COP21 in Paris, and also, you know, set future action. And then there's the action agenda, which sits around the formal negotiations, which includes civil society, businesses, activism, indigenous communities, the you know, the full breadth of perspectives on climate. So I think there were 60,000 delegates who attended COP 30 this year. So it's a it's an enormous group. And there's lots of different pockets of activity that accompany the formal negotiations. So people will attend with different ambitions for what they want to achieve. But really the core is those formal negotiations between the official country delegates.

Loreto Gutierrez:

And Beth, can you give us a sense of what it's like to be at Cobb and the physical space and the meetings?

Beth Dowe:

So I mean there's lots of different descriptions for COP, but one that I think is quite apt is, and this is in relation to the stuff that happens around the formal negotiations, but it's being described as the world's biggest trade fair. So each country, well, not all countries, sorry, but a lot of countries have their own pavilions where they're able to run a series of events that highlight topics that are important for their country. That's hosted by the, you know, the government delegates for that for that country. Then there's other um booths or pavilions that are set up for different organizations. So Sustainable Business Cop, for example, a whole lot of different other civil society organizations. So I mean in Bellem, you you walked into what was uh referred to as the Worm Tunnel, and it honestly just went for hundreds and hundreds of meters. It felt like it it would never end. You're walking down those formal negotiation rooms off to the side, and lots of people scurrying around went down a long corridor of media. So just, you know, media outlet after media outlet, all doing their own interviews and buzzing around. And then you eventually got to, you know, where it opened up into the blue pavilion where all the country pavilions are, which it felt like a mini United Nations. One of the things that I did early on actually was just go and sit down in the China pavilion and you know, put the headphones on and listen to what they were talking talking about and try to absorb, you know, what's what are the focus areas in other parts of the world and what's the the vibe really? And you can do that, you can then go to Singapore uh pavilion, all over the place. So you really get a sense for what countries are wanting to talk about and wanting wanting to showcase, which is really powerful. And then, of course, you know, there's the the home pavilion, so the Australia Pavilion, which is a little bit of a landing pad full of the Australian delegates to connect, swap notes, identify opportunities, and and of course the famous uh the famous coffee station, which is known uh uh across the the COP network to be the best coffee. So there's always a you know constantly a long line.

Loreto Gutierrez:

Sounds really exciting. So tell us what surprised you, what were your um main takeaways?

Beth Dowe:

And it was a real privilege to be there, to be at the edge of the Amazon, have the opportunity to share both our learnings, but also, you know, listen, learn to all of the journeys that are happening around the world, participate, contribute in the process. It really was a fantastic experience. So very grateful. In terms of you know, what we learned or what's surprised, there's a lot of perspectives out there on what was achieved or what was not achieved. But importantly, I think COP30 really did deliver meaningful progress on some fronts and it kept multilateralism alive, which is, you know, no small feat. To highlight some of the more significant pieces that were achieved. Australia signed the Bellham Declaration on the transition away from fossil fuels, which was championed by President Bulla, pushed for strongly by Environment Minister Marina Silva. And that declaration drew support from more than 80 companies, including countries like Australia and Norway. By the end of COP 30, mentions of fossil fuel roadmap had been removed from the formal texts. Um, that there was fierce pushback from countries like Russia, Saudi Arabia, India, and some of the emerging economies. Instead, the countries agreed to launch the global implementation accelerator. But even so, even though that language was removed from the final text, the signing of the declaration has now triggered a conversation about implications for Australia in terms of things like the scope of the safeguard mechanism, diesel fossil fuel rebates, etc. So quite a significant uh development for us as a country. I I think the second thing to mention is the United States. So while the United States did actually have a visible presence in events surrounding the formal negotiations, so civil society, state-level business negotiations, that sort of thing, there was a notable absence of leadership in the formal negotiations. But this didn't open the floodgates, as some worried, you know, in the lead up to COP 30. There were nearly 60,000 delegates who attended this talk, which is actually the second highest ever. So that and the fact that no other country has withdrawn from the Paris Agreement, I think is really significant in that respect in terms of the US's absence from the formal negotiations. A third one is Brazil's uh the host country had an initiative, the Tropical Forest Facility, which actually achieved really great success. It was a pop record that secured US nine and a half billion dollars, which is around 14.7 billion Australian, in funding pledges, which is really significant. But there was a lack of real commitment on deforestation, which was one of the one of the ambitions, delays to adaptation finance, and particularly significant in our part of the world with our our Pacific neighbours, and of course, the language around the roadmap away from fossil fuels. As with all COPS, there was some great achievements and there was some disappointment for a lot of people. It was also very hot and very sweaty, which is which is interesting. There was floods, there were fires in the official zones. This all happened within, you know, the blue and the green zones. And the atmosphere almost was like a present reminder of why we're all working on this in the first place. And the city of Bell M did an amazing job of you know putting this conference together, hosting with really very welcoming to everybody who attended, which was amazing. Um, and in a way, the the heat was like a really good leveler for everybody that was there. You know, suit jackets were abandoned on day one. Everyone stopped apologizing for how sweaty they were when they met up with people. So it was actually created quite a collegial environment with everybody that was there, which was an unintended consequence, I think. So, all in all, a really fantastic experience, lots of amazing connections and opportunities for us to learn and adapt from what's happening globally, but also, you know, for us to share back what what we're doing and to support in the global transitions helps you to reorient in that global perspective, which was great.

Dan Leverington:

Amazing. And were you there for either the the protests or the fires, or had you left by then?

Beth Dowe:

I left the day before the fires, but yeah, some of the the demonstrations um was there for that part.

Dan Leverington:

Yeah. Wow. Wow, wow, wow. What an experience, Beth. Um, you touched on the the Pacific piece. Those of us who work in this space, and probably many who read the papers know that Australia was in with a pretty good chance of hosting COP31 and and we utilized the lead up to COP and COP30 itself in order to push our case for our partnership with the Pacific. Given that that didn't get over the line, even though Chris Bowen will will hold the power of the pen, so to speak, what do you think this now means for us going forward?

Beth Dowe:

Well, you're absolutely right. It was it was very disappointing for a lot of people that the outcome was that COP31 won't be hosted on our shores. From the perspective of implementation of the transition, COP31 in Australia was being touted as the deals COP, so aiming to catalyze those commercial opportunities which underwrite accelerated business implementation in Australia. Together with elevating the Pacific's priorities and bringing adaptation to the fore, it was it was a really great opportunity to showcase Australia's strengths and to boost momentum in this part of part of the world. But while it won't be hosted here, um that spirit of the of the deals COP and the conditions that made it compelling in the first place are still very much in place. So, you know, we we still have significant competitive or comparative advantage in the transitioning global economy. Major capital flows are being redirected, you know, from other parts of the world, and there's an opportunity for those to be captured here. Accelerating momentum across Asia, you know, there's there's lots of places to look to demonstrate that that opportunity is still very real and present. Australia is uniquely positioned with our world-leading solar wind resources. We have a stable regulatory environment, our critical mineral reserves. As of 2023, Australia was the world's top lithium producer, around 50%, plus top five for cobalt, manganese ore, rare earths, etc., etc. So we really do have a very um compelling case. Now that it won't be hosted on our shores, I guess the question becomes how can we catalyse that same level of momentum and coordination that a deals COP in Australia aspired to? So really, you know, that the case is still there. It's just the problem statement has shifted a little bit. And as you mentioned, you know, Minister Bowen will be presiding over the formal negotiations. So we have a significant opportunity to raise the ambition, ensure that it delivers tangible outcomes, despite the fact that it's physically hosted elsewhere. What that officially means with uh Minister Bowen presiding over the negotiations is Australia has exclusive authority in relation to the negotiations and to shape and guide the global decision making in support of that multilateral system and global trade, investment in clean energy industries. And I think the way that Australia handled the bid process also reinforced that respect for multilateralism and the process that the rule sets out. You know, it it is a disappointment, it won't be on our shores, but there's still lots of opportunity. The Pacific will still host a special pre-cop for leaders and others, which is really, really important for bringing attention to the existential threat, you know, they're on the front line of climate change in many respects, and we'll bring a focus on adaptation, finance, notably for the Pacific Resilience Facility. So, yeah, the the next 12 months are really still critically important for Australia. And it's our opportunity to make our mark as a transitioning economy and as an advocate for our whole region.

Loreto Gutierrez:

Yeah, thanks, Beth. Um, so it sounds like something that our listeners should keep a close eye on for the um upcoming months in understanding what our role will be into the new year. I would love to pivot and have a chat about nature positive. Because COP30 was hosted in the Amazon, it was really billed as the nature COP. So it heavily emphasized that net zero cannot be achieved without halting deforestation and restoring nature. So, with the Bilem Declaration emphasizing the key link between climate and nature, how is the Climate Leaders Coalition and the members of the coalition planning to integrate nature-related risk into existing decarbonisation strategies?

Beth Dowe:

Great question. And couldn't agree more. Nature and decarbonisation are, you know, two sides of the same coin. So we we really can't separate them in the way that we think about this. Over half of the world's GDP is moderately or highly dependent on nature, and it's it's also just one of our best assets in terms of um emissions reductions. In principle, entirely aligned. Um, within the CLC, there's been a focus on nature for three years or more now. Uh, it started with a group of TNFD early adopters who supported other businesses to really understand their interface with nature, both dependencies and impacts and how those could be framed in a sort of TNFD type language. Those companies work together to develop a digital tool, which is available to all businesses to help them on board with these concepts also. Um, because there is, you know, a real leap in terms of the complexity that this involves for businesses to implement. That work has now evolved into thinking through how to apply those concepts to real life business products and services. So, what does what does it mean if you take a step back and you redesign a product through a nature lens? Everything from how you grow the inputs to how you manufacture the product to how you distribute retail, et cetera. So there's a lot of amazing work that's been done around the world to support that process, but there are still some gaps. So by running a pilot with a real product, we can identify what's there and what's missing and where we need to kind of collectively focus to enable these concepts to be adopted at scale and beyond reporting and compliance, but into actual, you know, real products and services. So watch this space. We will be sort of sharing insights as they're developed.

Dan Leverington:

And certainly watching from Australia, this seemed to be the first COT that had such a central focus on Indigenous leadership. For Australian companies, this parallels quite well with the domestic focus on First Nations engagement in both energy and the nature projects that you mentioned. The Indigenous-led Great People's March, which we've referred to, uh, was a defining moment of this summit. How did the global focus on Indigenous stewardship at COP 30 impact your thinking on where Australian businesses currently are?

Beth Dowe:

Great question. And um agree, it was one of the most notable things I think about being on the ground at this COP was the representation and voice of First Nations and Indigenous communities, both from our region but also around the world. It was across the blue zone, across the green zone, really infused into a lot of the different conversations and discussions, which was fantastic. And it was actually a really incredible experience to share the space with um so many sort of diverse, at the same time aligned in so many ways, communities from around the world. So from the Philippines to the Amazon and every everywhere in between. The Brazilian presidency really did a fantastic job in terms of elevating um those voices. It was very powerful. In terms of where we're at, I mean, I I'm not really qualified to say that. I think you know, we we would need to ask that question to the First Nations. It's clear that this is a priority for most businesses. Um, and also there's a there's a recognition that there's a long way to go in our learning. There's also, you know, some perspectives that the urgency of the transition can make this difficult to navigate in a really, you know, a good way. So there are challenges for us to work through. Um, but there's also no shortage of evidence as to why, you know, a just transition that both integrates First Nations wisdom and experience and also ensures shared outcomes is critical for the way that we navigate this transition. I actually asked this question of one of the First Nations delegates who was on the ground at COP and just said, how, in her perspective, could businesses do this better? Because there is a real desire to do things better. Um, I found her response really powerful, which was simply just talk to us for a start and talk to us early. You know, find the respected people within communities, ask the questions, be open, listen, and and don't overlay that process some way down the track. You know, those conversations need to really happen early. In another conversation that I was a part of, Australia's opportunity in critical minerals was raised. And I thought there was some really powerful perspectives shared. We we often talk about our critical minerals and how um important they are for the transition and the opportunity for Australia to move up the value stack in you know in relation to critical minerals. Another way of looking at that is that those critical minerals have been under the ground for thousands and thousands of years and have been looked after by generation after generation after generation. So what makes them ours to extract, which I thought was a really important, you know, diff different way of looking at the opportunity. Um and when you take that lens, a whole lot of different obligations and considerations come up. So it highlights, I think, growing expectation for indigenous informed governance of mineral extraction projects and not just consultation, but in some cases as far as co-ownership. So really sort of changing the model for how for how we do it. Great progress being made, a lot of learning has happened over the last period, but also a long way for us to go. And in the end, this is just one perspective, but really we would need to hear the answer from the First Nations communities to be showing that.

Loreto Gutierrez:

Really interesting, Beth. Thank thank you for sharing that and and love to hear about the focus and all the um knowledge sharing that was done at COVID. Um, is there anything else that you would like to share from your time at Bilham that you think it's worthwhile for our listeners to hear?

Beth Dowe:

Well, that's a great question. So obviously, you know, we talked a little bit about the formal negotiations and the action agenda that sits around that, which includes the, you know, the business side of it. Being on the ground at COP is also just a great way to get out of your fishbowl and reorient in a more global perspective. Having the opportunity to talk to people about their journeys, about their country's journeys and the lessons that they're learning and how, you know, novel approaches that are being taken and how they might inform Australia's journey is really valuable. And there's probably there's infinite examples of that, but maybe just a couple that come to mind to give you some of the colour. Talking to Wangira Mathai, um, who, you know, about the transition that's unfolding across Africa. So not necessarily something that uh a lot of Australians are deep in, but she talked to several examples. So Ethiopia is immediately phasing out fossil fuel cars because it makes economic sense and they see, you know, the benefits of their solar potential as a way to really leverage that advantage into leapfrog from an economic perspective. So a purely economic rationale, um, but taking really decisive action to capitalize on that. Nigeria eliminating subsidies for diesel and the boom in solar adoption, etc. So some really interesting stuff happening there. She also talked about the generational shifts in terms of mindset and how the current generation is really, for want of a better term, sort of holding the feet to the fire for their governance and really looking for that leadership and demanding that leadership of their current, you know, set of set of leaders. And she she actually had a provocation question that she asked people, which was to really think through who you are accountable to and be very aware of that when you step into a room because that's fundamental to sort of the influence that you bring. Another example was uh Al Gore, who's advocating um quite strongly and warning on basically to sideline the influence of fossil fuels as part of the negotiations, both official and kind of more broadly. He talked a lot about captured politicians. He talked about asymmetry of information, the politicization of failed implementation, so how that those examples are sort of being misused in some cases, and also the need or the failure to continuously renew political will. So this is not something that we do once, you know, activism, etc., plays a really strong role in this. It's not something we do once, it's something we need to continue to renew in a way political will is a renewable resource like anything else. So he was he was definitely talking a lot about that over the weeks. Um another one which was really of interest for me and our role in the Climate Leaders Coalition, maybe less so for others, is the role of business coalitions moving forward in the transition and the thinking on that around the world. Some of the points that Laura's raised is the need to be very, very clear on the role that those coalitions play to build trust, because trust is a rare resource in this environment. Also, not aiming to be radical, but instead to shine a light on examples of what works and how others can adopt those examples. So a really pragmatic approach and demonstrating the business case for a lot of these things in very clear terms is the best way to advance progress. They highlighted the need for us to continue to build the muscle for pre-competitive collaboration, which is very aligned with the Climate Leaders Coalition's philosophy. And that really the future of delivery is working through value chains. So for the stuff that remains, this is we really need to be working across businesses, across industries to get that implementation that's required at the pace that we need. So some really interesting evolutions that's happening globally around how businesses deploy. Maybe the last one to leave us on was Bertrand Picard of the Solar Impulse Foundation. Many of you know him as sort of in his adventurer hat with hot air balloons and others. Um, he was encouraging people very strongly to use language like modernization instead of decarbonisation. And I think we talked a little bit about this actually at the beginning of the year and how we frame what we're trying to achieve for different audiences and different interests. So his term is modernization, and they've actually recently published a compilation of 60 plus case studies on solutions that are both ecological and profitable. The silent moneymaker, you know, is was his term for efficiency. And this is very aligned with some of the work that the coalition's doing in demand side energy management. So something that resonated a nice thought for us to close on was he was asked about the dangers of flying around the world in a the world's first solar-powered plane, which everybody was saying was impossible at the time. So it did seem like quite a risky venture. But his response, and it was immediate, was the most dangerous thing is not to fly around the world in a solar plane. It's the status quo, which I think is a really powerful reminder of really where the threats lie. And this this stuff isn't always easy. So reminding ourselves of why we're doing it and keeping those energy levels up is really important.

Dan Leverington:

Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for such an insightful look into Bell M and the incredible experience that that you had and the people that you got to meet, including Paul Coleman. Um thank you for coming on the GreenFix podcast again.

Beth Dowe:

Thanks so much for having me, and congratulations on the great work you've done through the podcast.

Loreto Gutierrez:

This was GreenFix with your hosts Loretta Baterias and Dan Levington. We hope you enjoyed the episode. You can send us your questions or tell us who you'd like us to interview next at info at greenfixpodcast.com. You can get your GreenFix every two weeks on Apple Podcast, Spotify, YouTube, and Pocket Cast.

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Dan Leverington

Host
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Loreto Gutierrez

Host
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Beth Dowe

Guest