How Multinationals Can Leapfrog to Sustainability Leadership, with Dani Matthews, Co-Founder at Abundium

How can the Australian subsidiaries of global multinationals become sustainability innovators, rather than waiting for head office to lead the way?

In this episode, we sit down with Dani Matthews, Co-Founder and Chief Impact Officer at Abundium, a leadership community for C-suite executives in foreign-owned companies operating across the ANZ and APAC region. Abundium works with over 100 of the world's leading multinationals to drive what Dani calls "good growth", leadership that balances profit with people and planet.

We talk about leapfrogging (not the pilates kind): how Australian subsidiaries can use their distance from global headquarters as freedom to pilot, test, and innovate, then share those breakthroughs back to the global business. She shares how Unilever ANZ achieved B Corp certification before its parent company and piloted a four-day work week in New Zealand, and how DHL Supply Chain is using a global carbon insetting model to reduce supply chain emissions ahead of local infrastructure.

We also explore what Dani calls the Trusted Triangle , the critical alignment between the CEO, CFO, and Chief People Officer, and why sustainability must sit at the heart of business strategy, not on the sidelines. With mandatory sustainability reporting now underway in Australia, Dani shares what she's hearing from CFOs navigating the transition and why frustration might actually be the gateway to flow.

Whether you're in a multinational, an ASX-listed company, or a sustainability role looking for practical ways to keep this work on the leadership agenda, this conversation is full of actionable insights.

RESOURCES

Guest & Organisation

• Abundium — https://abundium.com
• Dani Matthews on LinkedIn — https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewsdani/

Books & Authors

• The Case for Good Jobs by Zeynep Ton (MIT Sloan) — https://goodjobsinstitute.org
• Net Positive by Paul Polman (former Unilever CEO)

Podcasts

• Change Signal by Michael Bungay Stanier
   https://thechangesignal.com

Research & Reports

• WEF & BCG Report: Already a Multi-Trillion-Dollar Market: CEO Guide to Growth in the Green Economy (December 2025) — https://www.weforum.org/stories/2025/12/the-5t-green-economy-is-growing-here-s-how-ceos-can-turn-opportunity-into-long-term-growth/

Transcript

Setting The Stage: Abundium’s Vision

Loreto Gutierrez 0:04

Welcome to the Green Fix, your sustainability, business, and technology podcast. We are your hosts, Loreto Gutierrez.

Dan Leverington 0:12

And Dan Leverington.

Dan Leverington 0:16

G'day. Welcome back to The Green Fix. This week, we're joined by Abundium co-founder Danny Matthews to hear how the Australian subsidiaries of multinationals can leapfrog their global teams to become sustainability innovators. She introduces what she calls the Trusted Triangle, which is the critical alignment between the CEO, CFO, and Chief People Officer, and why sustainability must transition from a compliance burden to a core commercial driver. What we loved about this conversation is Danny's approach of treating people as value creators rather than line items, which she sees as being essential for any successful transformation. We know this will be one that you love, so buckle up and enjoy the ride.

Dani Matthews 1:18

Yes, thanks, Dan and Loreto. It's a privilege to be here. II love what you're doing here. So thank you for this amazing work.

Dan Leverington 1:25

Can we start by you sharing with the listener what Abundium is and the genesis of the organization?

Principles For Bold Leadership

Dani Matthews 1:31

So a Bundium, our vision really is better leaders for a better world. And we believe, you know, if we can create a revolution of more abundant-minded leaders that don't just care about profit, but the triple bottom line with people and planet, they have such a sphere of influence, you know, the communities they live. We just feel like that can really help create a better, more sustainable world. The name Abundium, which might be curious to those who haven't heard of us. The whole idea was we actually created the word by listening to our community members. We surveyed them and said, what does this community feel like or mean to you? And a few of them said, you're you're like a precious resource or a local home for global leaders, because our niche is, you know, that global multinational. So we're a tribe for the ANZ and APAC C-suite teams. And the abundant bit is, you know, let's actually be abundant and lead with love and abundance rather than fear and scarcity. So the types of leaders we attract really have that mind frame and they help encourage each other to think big. So we're really a local home for global leaders, and our principles are really important to us. So we have three. One is get real. Let's get to know the humans behind the titles and create a very low ego community. Get real also means practical insights. So your piece on actionable optimism, we want to get practical. Give forward, let's actually give forward and be generous with our insights and also help the social sector. So we work with over a hundred of the world's leading companies, and they can all nominate a local not-for-profit who then get free access to our curriculum. So we're working with over 60 amazing not-for-profits, some of whom are working in the climate sustainability space. And then thirdly, which is my favorite, is go large. You know, it costs the same to think small as think big. So let's actually think big, be bold, be optimistic. You lead with hope. So we we really are a global leadership community. We have leaders from all over the world, you know, some who grew up here, others who have come from all different parts of the globe. And we really care about driving good growth in the region.

Loreto Gutierrez 3:38

I love that. We're big fans of your work, um, everything that you've done over the last few years. And one thing that I've heard you speak about a fair bit in the past uh is this concept of leapfrogging. So I'd love for you to share with the listener what is leapfrogging and what does it mean for Australian companies?

Leapfrogging From Australia

Dani Matthews 3:59

Thanks, Loretta. Well, it's not for those who do reforma Pilates. They sometimes get you to do big frog, little frog, leapfrog, and it always makes me laugh. So it's not that type of leapfrogging. But what we mean by that is because we're an island far away from the rest of the world. And for our multinationals here, the mothership is thousands, hundreds of thousands of kilometers away. So there's a danger we could become laggards to the rest of the world. But we think actually it's an opportunity. We're in the forgotten time zone. Let's actually see that as freedom to explore and create, and as an opportunity to not always ask for permission, you know, beg for forgiveness and leapfrog. So we we're trying to get our subsidiaries to be innovative. We call Australia the innovation nation. So how can we pilot, test, and learn here and then leapfrog that innovation back to the rest of the world and not always be the ones who receive the innovation? It needs to be a yes and. But that's what we mean by leapfrog. And I think it really relates to the sustainability agenda. Like we need to keep our energy up, we need to keep innovating. Because if we feel like we're always laggards to Europe or other parts of the world, it's not very motivating.

Dan Leverington 5:08

How do you think this can relate to innovation within sustainability strategy for the organizations that are a part of your network?

Mind Frames And Belief

Dani Matthews 5:16

Great question, Dan. And I might share a previous example. When Nikki Sparchot was the ANZ country leader at Unilever, he's a great friend of Abundium. She piloted the ANZ region on a couple of things to really test this concept. So they became a B Corp in the ANZ entity, even though the mothership wasn't. And as you know, that's a very rigorous criteria, especially for a multinational NFMCG, to achieve. And she also piloted the four-day work week in New Zealand initially. So I think New Zealand's a great test nation, even more because it's a smaller population. So you could almost try it there first, come to ANZ. So I think that's an example where she took that bold leadership and then ended up becoming the global chief of transformation for Unilever because she had been bold and experimented here. So I think that's a you know a great previous example of how this can actually come to life.

Loreto Gutierrez 6:11

Yeah. You know, in terms of that leadership way of thinking, you use a term specifically, which is mind frames.

Dani Matthews 6:18

And that term actually came from my co-founder Rich Hearst, because as you'll know, with all the neuroplasticity research, our minds aren't set. So we prefer the word mind frames because we, you know, we're we're malleable and we can change our neurology. So that's um where the term came from. And in terms of belief, I've been thinking a lot about this recently. And if we disbelieve, if we disbelieve in the net zero transition or our sustainability strategies, we probably will never achieve them. And belief doesn't necessarily guarantee you'll get there, but it's a lot higher chance you will than if you don't believe. And a high performance researcher I love, and I've had the privilege of going through his program, Andy Meekle from a company called Elkium. He's researched Nobel Prize winners, the late Nelson Mandela, amazing athletes. And one thing he's distilled from all these leading pioneers is that they believe when there's no proof. And I think that relates to this topic because we've never been there before. You know, we haven't ever got to this 2030 vision. And if we don't believe we're going to get there, we never will. I'm a big believer in the law of attraction and where our thoughts go. And if we believe, we're open to possibilities and we'll embrace new technologies. Like there could be things that are going to be released in two years' time that can leapfrog us to get there. But if we disbelieve, it's a dangerous cycle. We we do a lot of work with leadership teams on instilling this belief. And it can't be fake belief because you can try and get yourself to think something. I've really been thinking, how do we feel it in our nervous system, in our body? It's a whole capacity piece as leaders to develop so that we truly believe.

Dan Leverington 8:00

And I think that feeds quite nicely into something that you've said before, which is that a lot of ESG leaders are being set up to fail. How do you believe we can shift their roles from constant performance mode to including the learning and well-being that is so important to their ongoing success?

Dani Matthews 8:19

Yeah, thanks, Dan. We we talk about the growth triangle at Abundium, which is this idea, as you said, you know, performance learning and well-being. Because if we get stuck in performance, which I think we've been da in danger of with the ESG professionals, it's not sustainable. I've met so many, and I know you have too, who have burnt out and their passion has been driven into compliance and reporting, and they've lost that initial energy that got them into the profession. If we want sustained performance, we have to make sure that they're getting opportunities to learn, to restore themselves, build their own sustainable practices and energy management. In COVID, we found that sustainability was in the top three priorities when we surveyed our members. I think people got time, they stopped, they saw the impact, and now it's sort of gone lower down the priority list. And there's a risk with that that sustainability roles become more of a side desk role again, where it's not properly resourced, they have too many things that they have to achieve, so that they they're just chronically in performance. And as we know, you can just burn out that way. Yeah, absolutely.

Global Talent And Learning Loops

Loreto Gutierrez 9:22

Um, and with your experience working with multinationals, right? I wonder if there are some good examples of how multinationals can access global voices, talent mobility, learnings from overseas to help unlock not just sustainability implementation across the organization, but also commercial opportunities.

Dani Matthews 9:44

The reason why we love working with global multinationals because you have this rich, diverse talent environment. Leaders are leading across borders, across cultures. You can learn what people are doing in other subsidiaries and create communities of practice. The company that does that really well is Schneider Electric, who Time magazine voted the world's most sustainable company. I've had the privilege of meeting some of their team members at COP28 in Dubai previously and in different parts of the globe. And they've got like an impact maker ideology and framework and some of the principles I talked about about leading with ambition and thinking big, they really embody. That's the great thing, is if we don't just think inside our own building, let's think about what are other subsidiaries doing? How can we learn from what they're doing in Singapore for a pilot? And obviously there's got to be nuances to your local environment. But I just think, yeah, talent mobility, how can we actually get with a lot of the restructures that are happening? How can we maybe bring someone from another subsidiary here to inject energy and innovation? So I think it's a really exciting time for talent. Like I've heard our CEOs say there's more talent on the market at the moment than they've ever known. And how can we harness that and think a bit differently about it as well?

The Trusted Triangle Explained

Dan Leverington 10:59

It's fascinating. So I know um you've been speaking to quite a few CFOs recently, and they they clearly need those case studies. How are you seeing the dynamic between the CEO, the CFO, and the chief people officer in determining whether a sustainability strategy actually gains traction instead of remaining on the to-do list for years on end?

Turning CFO Frustration Into Flow

Dani Matthews 11:21

Thanks, Dan. Well, yes, we call that the trusted triangle, the relationship between the CEO, the chief people officer, and the CFO. And it's just such an engine of the business, because if you can align, you know, the people, the finances, and the strategy together, which is where I believe sustainability strategy, you know, should sit. It can't just be with the chief sustainability officer if you have one. It has to be a heart of the business strategy. I think it's just such a powerful engine. And we're finding, you know, those trusted triangles that are aligned to this is where they're getting the most traction. Um, like DHL Supply Chain, one of our members, it's just a core part of their 2030 vision. And the more that it's, you know, talked about in the normal leadership meetings and it's on the agenda, it's not a side thing that's discussed in the water cooler moments. Like this is just a core part of doing business here as well. But the CFOs you mentioned, really interesting persona in this. So we've recently launched a CFO forum, so a true peer network for CFOs. And as you know, a lot of them are now responsible for mandatory reporting. Some of our members are in the first tranche, some it will come later down the track. But for them, without the right framing, this can seem like a burden because it's another cost to their PL. It's on top of their normal financial auditing. And there, there's a risk that we've heard from them that the cost and the time are being allocated to compliance rather than creativity. So I think it's really important we take CFOs on the journey and see this as a competitive advantage rather than a burden or a compliance piece.

Dan Leverington 13:00

It's it's really, really interesting to hear that. How do you see CFOs being supported in moving past this frustration of the reporting costs and the compliance focus to see sustainability as that commercial value driver?

Dani Matthews 13:15

Well, one of our masterclass previous speakers, Stephen Kotler, says frustration is the gateway to flow. So I actually think the frustration is a healthy tension because it's often in that frustration where we're challenging and we're trying to work out what this all means is that the breakthroughs come and then we get this beautiful state of flow, which I feel like is coming. And I think sustainability, if you look back over time, there's ebbs and flows. You know, you have a real peak period, you lose a bit of momentum and you plateau. And then I feel like we're sort of big plateauing a bit, but then we're we're back on the rise. So I think for CFOs, case studies are great if they can see how this could be a legacy for them. Like if they're leaders in this space, what a great piece for their career. And to actually be leaders in this space and help it be a competitive advantage. Because we know for young leaders, this is a really important topic on average. So a talent retraction strategy when they're looking to recruit, you know, finance leaders into their team. So I think it's really reframing. And I'm optimistic that this frustration is going to lead to flow, but they need good role models. I think they need education, you know, to actually go on whether it's a Cambridge short course like we did, Loreto. I think that would be really beneficial too.

Europe Vs US: DHL Case Study

Loreto Gutierrez 14:28

It's really exciting to hear that it has been a part of the conversations that you've had through the CFO forum. You have this really unique perspective, very macro view of the business ecosystem. So I'd love to talk a little bit about multinationals in Australia and different approaches that different multinationals might have as they operate in the country. One interesting parallel could be where they are headquartered. In your experience, how does a European headquartered organization, for example, you mentioned DHL, would differ from a US headquartered organization, even in, you know, when it comes to their appetite for those bold sustainability pilots in Australia? What have you seen?

Enterprise Leadership Over Reinvention

Dani Matthews 15:13

It's a great question, Loreto. And as you say, we have the privilege of having lots of different global HQs. So we really do see trends. And I do have to say, on average, you know, our European headquartered members have really been leading in this space and continue, continue to inspire us. But to give your listeners a case study, as you mentioned, DHL supply chain. So they're a global logistics company headquartered in Germany, and their sustainability strategy is aligned with the Paris Agreement. And from a European HQ perspective, they've invested heavily in sustainable fuels for their vehicle fleets. So they're really delivering real measurable carbon reductions. And interesting for Australia, because as you know here, sustainable transport fuels aren't widely available. Yet DHL have decided to not rely on traditional carbon offsets here. Instead, it's using global carbon and insetting model, which I thought was quite innovative, where the emissions that they're achieving in Europe through their cleaner, more efficient fuels, they're pulled and then they're applied across their global network. So our local CEO we work with, is very passionate in this space. His customers can reduce their supply chain emissions before the local infrastructure here catches up. So I thought that's a great example with, you know, the European leading the way, how we can actually benefit here. And they're still in the early stages partnering with customers on the model, but I think how can we use scale to drive real emissions? Because we know offsets are a bit of a band-aid solution as well. And for us, we often say progress trumps perfection. There's a danger here. If we wait for perfection, it's never going to arrive. You know, nothing's perfect. So how can we learn together, grow together, bring our customers on the journey? And I was inspired. I met their team at the COP28 event in Dubai. They had a separate innovation event where I saw some of their green fleet and met some of their local teams. And I just think that's the thing with global companies. You can something that happens in one subsidiary can be paid forward to another. And we all can rise together rather than trying to compete in different subsidiaries. Better together is one of our sayings at Tibundium as well.

Dan Leverington 17:24

I think the secondary or tertiary benefit of that is it's showing the local market what's possible. And there's so much power in that, in in removing the need for innovation or creativity in every discipline. It's saying this is already being done, this has been launched, this is going ahead. The decision is not do we create it out of thin air or not. The decision is do we get involved or not? And they're vastly different decisions to be made.

Dani Matthews 17:57

Yeah, and I think it takes the pressure off because sometimes, you know, as executives, we talk a lot about the difference between functional leadership and enterprise leadership. So, you know, you grow, grow in your function, whether you're a sustainability lead, finance lead, but then when you get to that top job often, you've actually got a different role as an enterprise leader. You're holding the system, you've got to think and act differently, and you can have so many different pressures, you know, sustainability reporting, cybersecurity concerns, these, you know, geopolitical things, tariffs, these things are being thrown at our leaders every day, sometimes to be like, we don't have to reinvent the wheel. Let's receive help as much as we can give forward help. So I've been thinking with this belief model as well, how can we as leaders, we don't have to always have the answers. Let's let's receive some of that innovation from Europe or elsewhere, and then we've got more capacity to do other things. And let's lean on our superpowers rather than trying to be experts in in all things.

Talent Resets And Retention

Dan Leverington 18:55

Yeah, absolutely. In terms of the younger generation and their the premium that they're placing on sustainability strategy, how are you seeing the current tech restructuring that's happening globally, but but also very much locally, and the abundance of talent now becoming available having an impact on how companies approach ESG from a retention tool perspective?

Dani Matthews 19:18

Great question. And yes, we're we're hearing about the quiet restructure or the not so quiet restructure, depending on what company is being impacted. But yes, I spoke to a prominent tech CEO who's American HQ'd a couple of weeks ago, and she shared, yeah, there's more talent than ever, and I'm letting go people that I would have fought hard to hire a few years ago. So it's a really interesting environment. Where I am here at the moment in the Greenhouse Tech Cub, which you two know is a climate innovation hub in Sydney, there's you know more and more startups. So some of this talent is going into smaller startup scale-ups because this purpose is really important to them. And there's a risk that some global multinationals are going to not have this innovative talent in play. And then they'll end up having to acquire companies that they could have actually built internally if they had their own, you know, ventures and innovation hubs. So it's a really interesting time. And we're very sort of bold and ambitious in our thinking with our leaders is in tough times you actually need to invest for growth because Gartner had some great winning in the turns research after the GFC. The companies that stopped investing in people, you know, you look then at their future performance, and of course it plateaus. Whereas the companies that, okay, we're going to stick in this, we're going to keep investing in our people, the the positive projects, which often are the first things to go when times get tough, they actually outperform their peers. And the research was quite incredible. So I think, you know, my my counsel is you obviously have to be smart, but if you can hold the line and really hold on to your best people and back your products and innovation in the long term, I think you'll continue to win.

People As Value Creators

Loreto Gutierrez 21:01

Absolutely. And what a great um reminder of the importance of planning for the future. You know, downturns are followed by upturns. So how important it is to plan for that as well.

Dani Matthews 21:11

Yeah, just to add to Loretta on that, we had a great masterclass speaker recently, Zainip Ton, who's written a great book called Good Jobs. And she's collaborated with, you know, MIT. And she said that headcount freeze is the fastest way to kill transformation. But how often does that happen? We freeze people, we freeze costs, you know, no more subscriptions, no more this. And that yet we're expecting a huge change, transformation, and especially in the sustainability space, it's just counterintuitive. And she says we need to stop seeing our people as a cost, but as value creators. And that mind frame is so different to seeing your people as a cost. You know, my sustainability team, they're value creators. They're not a cost that I need to get rid of as soon as times are hard.

Climate Impacts And Urgency

Loreto Gutierrez 21:59

Absolutely. In the last few years, we've had some really difficult times in Australia quite recently with the, you know, the recent um bushfires in Victoria, but you know, going back through past bushfire events, floods, and other large-scale weather events. Have you seen that effect or impact the urgency and the nature of reporting from multinationals, particularly those you work with, would typically land on Group One?

Dani Matthews 22:26

Yeah, I think climate change is very visible here in Australia, as you alluded to, with the recent bushfires, you know, then the flash flooding in Victoria shortly afterwards. We have these extreme weather events here, which makes it very visible. And we know through our own clients that people are directly impacted who work for multinationals, you know, really connects to the hearts and minds of leaders when you visibly see that through your workforce. So I do think it has helped raise this on the agenda again, whether that's directly impacting on the reporting level we're yet to see. I was recently on a Tour de Cure fundraiser on the Great Ocean Road, and then you see that area impacted by the flash flooding, it really brings it closer to home. And you know, from a business point of view, insurance premiums are going sky high, depending on what business you're on. From an economical point of view, it really makes us think how can we become more climate resilient? If we care for our people, we need to prioritize this. So I do think it makes it more front of mind. It's just then how do we keep it front of mind? Because something else comes up and it's easily forgotten. So I think our job is how do we keep the hope up when we focus on all the negative impacts? It can sort of be a bit dismotivating. Whereas if we focus on the hope and the potential, then it can change our frame of mind as well.

Key Takeaways And Mindset Shifts

Dan Leverington 23:52

Yeah, absolutely. Danny, this has been so much fun. What would you like to be a key takeaway for our listener to take with them into their organization based on what you're seeing and this conversation?

Dani Matthews 24:05

Yeah, I think my key, key ask would be: if this has dropped from your leadership agenda, let's put it back on the agenda and stay curious rather than critical of team members in this area. Assume noble intentions, take that extra five minutes with your CFO to actually explain the impact of the reporting and and why this matters. My takeaway would be let's stay curious a bit longer. Let's keep asking questions, let's put this back on the agenda if it's slipped off, and let's share personal stories because I think it's through those personal stories we build that human connection as well. I love that. Yeah, can't agree more.

Loreto Gutierrez 24:45

Danny, it's been such a fun conversation. What we love doing before um wrapping up is to go through rapid, rapid fire around. What is one recommendation you could give to our listeners?

Rapid Fire: Recs, Guests, Hope

Dani Matthews 24:58

It could be a thought-provoking book, a podcast, an article. Well, in addition to the green fix, which everyone's listening to already, I would add another podcast called Change Signals by Michael Bungay Stania, who's one of the world's leading executive coaches. Had the privilege to recently interview him again through a Bundium. And I think this sustainability journey, it's a change process. And anyone who's interested in change, this is a great resource. He's got so many great interviews. So Change Signals by Michael Bungay Stania.

Dan Leverington 25:28

And who is someone who has inspired you that you think we should have on the podcast?

Dani Matthews 25:34

Good question. I think I could fill a whole season for you. But the one that comes to mind has to be Paul Pullman, who I had the privilege to meet at COP28 in Dubai. And I'm sure your listeners know him well, former Unilever CEO. You know, NetPositive is his book and movement. But I think Paul just brings this optimism and hope, which I love. And even just reading his latest dose of hope gave me encouragement. You know, the green economy is second to the tech economy with some great research by Boston Consulting Group. So Paul would be um somebody I'd love to hear on the podcast. And I can connect you as well.

Dan Leverington 26:10

Yeah, that would be amazing.

Loreto Gutierrez 26:12

We love ending on a real positive note. So is there one piece of positive climate news that you could share with us?

Dani Matthews 26:20

I love that. To end on the dose of hope, I think that last year saw record investments in renewables and sustained corporate climate action amongst all the geopolitical things in the world. And a Boston Consulting report showed that the global green economy has surpassed $5 trillion in annual value and is expected to exceed $7 trillion by 2030. The fact that it's the second fastest growing sector in the world outpaced by technology is really exciting, and that definitely gives me hope.

Dan Leverington 26:48

Yeah, that's incredible. And then finally, we are handing you the green fix magic wand. How would you like to use it to change one thing in the world?

Dani Matthews 26:57

Big question. I think I would actually elevate more women in leadership because I've also got a big passion for gender diversity, and I think that would have a knock-on effect on positive climate action. You know, if we have a more gender-equal world, we've got more perspectives at that senior table, and I'm I'm part of some great women and climate groups, and I know there are just a great load of female leaders who care, whose voices aren't being heard. And I'm actually going to the UN in New York this International Women's Day month to be part of a conversation around justice for women and girls. I'd love to elevate more women and then more cross cultures. Wonderful.

Loreto Gutierrez 27:34

And yeah, I couldn't agree more, Danny. So great use of the magic wand. Danny, it has been such a great conversation. Thank you so much. Um, you have such a unique perspective on the business ecosystem, and it's really exciting to hear all of your insights, and it's also really exciting to see how you have managed to connect all of your business experience and turn it into actionable sustainability as well. So we love your work. Big fans, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

Dani Matthews 28:08

Well, thanks, Loreto and Dan, for giving us our regular green fix. And I just love your work. We need more sharing of stories and leaders to keep us all motivated. So I really appreciate the work you're doing.