How Challenge Can Be Easy With Mindset, Confidence & Self-Leadership with Denise Parpworth (Ep. 57)

This week on the podcast, we are joined by the incredible Denise Parpworth  therapeutic counsellor, mother of three, grandmother, business owner, and one of the most quietly powerful women we know.

Hannah met Denise through our women’s circles, and after one very inspiring conversation we knew I had to invite her onto the podcast.

Why?

Because Denise speaks about things many of us experience as hard such as single motherhood, earning income alone, building businesses, childbirth, leaving home at 15 and she describes them as… easy.

Not because life handed her ease.
But because of the lens she chose to look through.

In this episode, we explore:

✨ Building confidence through action
✨ Raising three children as a largely single mother
✨ Earning income without burnout
✨ Creating work-life balance by design
✨ The power of strict but supportive routines
✨ Why she doesn’t watch TV or scroll first thing
✨ The mindset shift from “this is hard” to “this will work”
✨ Home births, autonomy & trusting your body
✨ Gratitude as a daily discipline
✨ “Be. Do. Have.”  designing life intentionally

Her morning routine alone is worth listening for!

This conversation is a powerful reminder that:

• Your mindset shapes your experience.
• Confidence is built by doing.
• Ease is often a decision.
• Discipline creates freedom.

About Denise

Denise is a therapeutic counsellor based in Kings Hill, Kent, offering in-person and online sessions across the UK.

She integrates:

• Talking therapy
• EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique)
• Breathwork
• Holistic approaches tailored to each client

🌿 Website: www.therapeuticcounsellingwithdenise.co.uk

🌿 In-person (Kent) & Online UK-wide

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Transcript

0:00

Yes. Welcome to the Holistic Health Sisters podcast of Wellness and Real Life Sisters Hannah Carr and Sarah King from the Holistic Health Collective. In this podcast, we're going to be sharing our passion for, of course, holistic health, but also spirituality, healings, hormone, plant medicine, seasonal living, our love of nature, and our love of community. So we are gonna invite you to take a pause and take a nice deep breath. And join us on a path of healing, of self-discovery and self-love, and of stepping into the brilliance of who you really are. This is a podcast for the seekers out there. Those of you who know there's more to life than just surviving or going through the motions, and you want more, more health, wealth, happiness, love, compassion, connection, trust, surrender. And more faith. And you want that for others too. So we can make this world a better place for us all. So go and grab a cup of ceremonial grade cacao and join us as we explore what moves through us, that which is divinely led, so we can all move from fear to walls. More faith. Thank you so much for being here with us today. welcome to this week's podcast. I've got Denise Parpworth and she's a therapeutic counselor. Her business is therapeutic counseling with Denise, and I know Denise from our women's circles. I feel really privileged to have known Denise for a year. About a year now, and we took it out of the women's circles and into the curry house. We had a social event, and Denise was sharing so much about her life. That was really inspiring me that I wanted to invite her to the podcast to inspire you as well. What I really noticed in our conversations was Denise was sharing things about life and making some areas of life that most of us will find really challenging. So there are areas like childbirth, maybe child rearing, earning income, especially as a single mom when you've got young children. And when I was saying to Denise, some of this must have been challenging, it must have been hard. She was just in this really light energy, which was like, no, I never found it hard. I found it easy. And I was like, really? Okay. I need to get you onto the podcast because. Everything that we see life through is a lens. And if we can look through the lens of things are easy and we're expecting things to be easy, often that's reflected to us. It's often when we are looking through the lens of this is hard, or I don't know how that then things become difficult. So I just wanted to get Denise on just for a chat. So we could hear some of her mindset shifts that she's had over the years and, welcome, Denise to the podcast. Oh, thank you so much for having me. It's a privilege and a pleasure. I loved it that you said yes straight away. There was no hesitation to say yes. And I know often when we're putting ourselves out there to the world, we can have doubt about ourselves, but you come across as someone who's very, confident in yourself. Is that right? Yeah, I feel confident in myself. Yeah. And has that always been there for you or is that something that you've had to build? I think it's something I've had to build. I know that I've been confident all the time. Mm-hmm. No, I think we do have to build confidence. I think when I was younger I always felt maybe, an era of not feeling good enough. So yeah, it's something I've definitely had to build on. Yeah. Now? No, I'd like to feel that I'm confident. And when you say now, can I ask how old you are now? Yes, I'm 58. You're 58 And you've got children. How many children have you got? I've got three. Three. So could you paint a picture for us of your life as someone who's never met you, dunno anything about you. Tell us a little bit about Denise and what your life looks like. Okay. From the very beginning? No, just like right now. Okay. Right now. Yeah. I'm single. Yeah. I've got a 30-year-old son. Mm-hmm. A 22-year-old son and a 20-year-old daughter. Yeah. And I live alone, so they're all got their own lives now. Yeah. Any grandchildren? I've got a 1-year-old, no, sorry, I've got a 6-year-old. Granddaughter. Yeah. And I'm a therapeutic counselor, in private practice work for myself. Yeah. Yeah. And that's quite local to your home as well, isn't it? Yeah, thriving. It's a good business. Yeah. You seem like someone looking in from the outside that you've got a good work life balance. Does that feel true? Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that's important. And did you actively choose that and curate that or did that just happen. No, I actually actively chose that. Yeah. I knew the answer anyway. I knew the answer, but I just wanna hear anyone who feels like maybe they're running about in a nine to five or even longer hours, or they're doing like the juggle and they feel like they can't create that. You've created that as a single mom who basically, almost single handedly, I think we'll go back in your history a little bit, but brought up your kids yourself. Mm-hmm. Financed your life and your children's lives yourself. Mm-hmm. And. Have managed to keep a work life balance as well. Yeah. So what's some of the things, like what's some of your passions and some of your interests at the moment, like when you are not working?'cause a lot of people now with technology will just get stuck watching TV series, maybe scrolling on the phone. May be involved in like family dramas and don't have a lot of time for themselves. For someone who's stuck in all that, could you remind us what does like a passionate life look like? What kind of things do you enjoy outside of work? Oh, TV's not for me. No. So when I finish work, I would. Come home. It's winter now. So summer's definitely my season. But when I come home now for the winter, it would be something like reading. Mm-hmm. I like listening to my podcasts. It's all about emotional wellbeing for me. Yeah. Reading, psychology, music, dancing. I love to do my dancing. I love my exercising. I've just bought a rowing machine, actually. Nice. So I just started doing some rowing. What else would I do? I like my women in circles. Yeah. I like doing the singing circles with yourself, Hannah. And I like my socializing, but I choose wise, live with my socializing. Mm-hmm. But the summer mum is paddleboarding. Yeah. It's out walking. Yeah. And obviously in the nice weather as well. Walking, just like being out in nature. Yeah. I like my meditations. I like doing a bit of Qigong. As well. Yeah. So it's all about me. It's all about you actually. It is. I take a lot of time for myself. Wow. That's such a permission piece. It's like a lot of people don't feel they can do that. No, I do give myself a lot of permission to be with me. Yeah. I try not to listen to any kind of news or anything like that. I give myself peace. But yeah, in the summer months it's out in, anywhere near water nature, paddle boarding. Yeah. Anything like that really. And you say there, Denise, that it's all about you, but I know spending some time with you in the past year, you're not a selfish person. You give a lot to others. Obviously with your counseling in women's circles, you're listening to others like you have a lot of, and your family, I know that you give a lot to your family as well. Mm-hmm. W could you define, do you think you could define what the difference between selfishness, when is something selfish and when is it like self love or given to yourself? Would you have a like definition between the two? Yeah. When I say it's all about me, that's the downtime, which it's all about me that I give to me because I do give a lot to others. Yeah. Like you say Hannah. So yeah, there's a difference between being selfish and taking all the time to yourself and being,. How can we explain that? Not thinking about others, but. Self-care is if you take good care of yourself, then you've got enough energy to give to others, haven't you? You've got enough time to give to others. It's you know that empty cup syndrome, isn't it? If your cup is your cup of overflow, absolutely. If your cup is overflowing, then there's plenty to give to others. Yeah. If your cup is empty, how can you possibly give to others? You've gotta really think of yourself first. I always say one comes before two. Yeah, absolutely. And eye comes before you in the alphabet. It's as simple as that. And if you can take that analogy. Yeah. That's not being selfish. Did you ever have times in your life where you did lose yourself at any point, maybe when your kids were younger or even as they've been older where you got, I don't know, maybe lost in your work or anything like that? Yeah, I think we all do. Yeah. I think as mothers you all do, and time passes by so quickly. You take so much time looking after your children, rearing your children, whether that be work or even if you are a home mother, you take so much time looking after them. You do think. Where are those 10 years gone? Yeah. Where are those 15 years gone? Where am I? Who am I? And then you've gotta try and find yourself again. Yeah. You do. And then you can recalibrate and think, okay, let's do this. But yeah. But that's, you're doing that for the love of your children. Yeah. You want them to be well-rounded and. But, so could you tell us a little bit about, I love the story when you told me about you having your first born and then you as a single mom. So you can tell us a little bit about that if you are willing to share. And then when I said to you. Wow. How did you earn an income and how was you paying for all the bills? And you made it sound really easy. And I'm sure there's days that there wasn't, but it must have been a mindset thing. I think I asked you if you ever had any money blocks in your life, and you said in the curry house, like you said, no, I've never had that before. And so your life has really, to me, seemed a reflection of that belief. So go back and tell us like when you had your first born and what that was like and how did you bring in income and sustain yourself without getting burned out. Wow. Do you know what I've thought about this and, I've never looked about the how I've done it. I just did. And so I would've been 28 when I had my first born, and I was a nanny. And I continue to be a nanny. And he's, I call him my number one son, the child that I looked after. But yeah, I was a nanny, so I earned, and I earned quite well. And they said to me, you are gonna have a baby, so do you want time off? And I said, no, because if I was a mother, I wouldn't have time off, would I? So I'm gonna still look after pta. So he would've been four. So I had Jay, my first son, and I gave birth to Jay. And I was still picking up Peter, but I gave birth to Jay. So Jay would've been, I think he was five days old, and I was picking up Peter from school, so I carried on earning. I had to, and yeah, we didn't have a great relationship, me and his father, so he wasn't the greatest breadwinner. And so I had to be the breadwinner. So I continued, I carried on earning and then unfortunately, me and his father broke up when Jay was four months old. So I had to be the bread winner. I had a mortgage to pay. And so I continued to carry on child minding. So I had children in the house as well. Yeah. And I remember having three little blonde children and people saying, are they all your children? I'm like, no. Yeah. And I carried on. Earning. That's quite amazing. And then you went on to have two more children. So you had three of them. That was 10 years later. We went through an unfortunate time in our lives j and i, but I continued to, carry on earning. I went into the beauty trade, became a now educator. Okay. And worked for myself. And then we moved house. And then, yeah, I just. Continued to earn. I just did better and better for myself and for Jane. And then went on to have two more children and the now educating business just rocketed. So was that your own business as well? Yeah. And how did you balance things like, I know from running my own business is a lot, so you might have, advertising and marketing and then you might have sales and then you've got the actual work piece. So you're training people and then you might have, customer service to deal with those people. You might need to collect testimonials and reviews that you might then need to use for your advertising. Denise. Denise is shaking her head at this point, so tell us what it looked like, if that's a no. What did it look like for you? No. So with the training, first of all, I became an now technician, which I did all. In my spare time as well as being a nanny and a child minder, right? So I found the time to do it. I wrote all my own manuals. Up in my own spare time when the, Jay was sleeping. Yeah, I just found the time. So it's about, I look back now even as I'm speaking, how on earth did I do that? Yeah. I do not know. I just did it. You didn't question whether you had the time. You just, I didn't question. I just did it. I knew what I wanted to do and I got on and done it. I knew that I had to do it. I had a mortgage to pay for. It. Whether I was in survival mode, I don't know. But I knew I had to do it and I wanted to do it, so I did it. And then with marketing and that, I just did it. And I'll never forget my first day when I went out to do the education, I did it. I was an now educator, the only one in Kent that did it in people's houses. Oh, okay. And I remember thinking, oh wow, I've gotta do this. But I did it, and it just. It survived it. It was a great business to be in. And then the nannying the child grew up and obviously didn't need me as a nanny, so I just solely went into education. Yeah. And somewhere along this way you actually fitted in fostering as well, didn't you? I did, yeah. So when the two children, the younger two children were oh, 12 and Oh, 10 and 12. Yeah. I decided to go into fostering, so did that. Yeah. I was married at this point. Yeah, we did some fostering, yeah, for about three years. Wow. Mm-hmm. So you fitted, it really feels like throughout your life, maybe it's not been a perfect balance the whole time, but you've found this balance between giving to others. Society and helping people grow, especially within our business. And with the counseling though as well. Mm-hmm. And also balancing your needs as well. It feels like such an unusual balance. Like I don't think we've witness it a lot in society with people feel like you are really showing people how to do that. Modeling it. It can be done, I think. Try not to let your thoughts overtake you that you can't do it. Mm-hmm. And I think if you want to do it and your mind will take over saying, no, I can't do this, and then look at all the negatives of what could go wrong. Mm-hmm. It's not a case of that. Just think about what could go right. What you could achieve through this and what you want to achieve through that. And then that will take over. But if you let your, your ne negative mindset take over, then you're gonna spiral downhill, aren't you? I never allowed that. For some reason, that never entered my mind. If I'm set on something which has proved that in the past, I'm gonna do it. And as I'm talking to you now, as I look back, I'm nothing ever. It just always went forward to only positives and goods. Yeah so we was talking about, before we started a recording, we was talking about confidence. And I said to Denise that I think a lot of people would like more confidence. But confidence comes through doing exactly what you've said there, Denise. A lot of people and. I've done it in my life. You can get stuck in your head, not take the action and wish you were more confident. But usually our fears are so much bigger than the reality. So as soon as we try something, it is never usually as bad as what we thought it would be anyway. So it really sounds like you have built your confidence through doing, and you said earlier before we started recording, that you left home when you was 15. Mm-hmm. So perhaps you've just always had to do, and that has just built your confidence. Do you feel that could be true? Yeah, because even leaving at home at 15, I didn't even think about it. When you think of a 15-year-old leaving home with just a carrier bag thinking that she can that's crazy. My, my son's 16 now and I can't imagine him leaving home and No, it could, I think anyone's capable, you're capable if you think that you are. Mm-hmm. But at the moment, he is, quite sheltered in life and supported by us and mm-hmm. He would have no reason to, but. What was that like? Like how did you support yourself when you were 15? I had 35 pound in my purse. And I'll never forget it I left home and I thought, as a bossy 15-year-old, I can do this. And I went around the WHI ball streets, looking in all the shop corners as you did. And they had postcards up looking for bed sits. Mm-hmm. And there was one there for 15 pound a week as it was all those years ago. And yes, I'll admit that I lied about my age. I said to the landlord, who's still alive to this day, who I do see quite often when I go to Wbul. Dave, yeah, I'm 18. I wasn't 18. I think he knew that. He probably saw that I was in distress and gave me this room that was. Looking around your room here, it was probably smaller than this room with a single bed in, and I didn't even have any bedding. We are, we're in quite a small room as we're recording this. It is what might be called like definitely a single bedroom. Mm-hmm. But I'm using it as an office or a podcast re recording studio. Mm-hmm. So you had somewhere tidy, so did you just get work straight away to pay the rest of that rent for a month? Yep. I had to get work straight away. So I worked in the bank of a restaurant in a French cuisine restaurant, peeling potatoes and sacks and sacks of carrots. So you could appeal in vegetables then? Absolutely. Yeah. I'll never forget that. Sax and Saxa carrots. And then I went on to work nights with my mum who was a nurse in an old people's home that they took me on, and that's what I had to do. So worked during the day, peeling vegetables and work nights as a care assistant in an old people's home. So do you ever feel like you've suffered from stress or burnout at any point in your life or fatigue or exhaustion? Because you sound like you've just kept going forever. Yeah. But I've never really suffered from stress or burnout. I think now if I feel that I'm burning, if I feel that I'm burning myself out, I can recognize it if I'm feeling tired. Yeah. But back then, no. I just kept going. Mm-hmm. Because I, I wanted things, I wanted to do better. I wanted, I wanted to get out of that bed because there was another bed up further, a nice amount in the locked room. Yeah. Which was 30 pound a week, which I very quickly. Went to in six months time. That's amazing. And then I had a two bedroom flat at the age of 16. Mm-hmm. So at some point you'd done the now technician and the education after the nannying and then you moved into counseling. So what made you want to study that? And did you study that alongside running this other business? Yes, I did. So I was in the now educator and then been an now educator like. Like any kind of profession, like hairdressing and et cetera, you become a listener. Yeah. Don't you? And I thought I've always been a very good listener and I just thought going down the counseling route and because of the way my life had led, which, I don't need to go into, but yeah, I thought you could help people and I'd had some counseling as well from the age of 30 to 34, and I just thought. I could put something back into this world. Mm-hmm. And I'd like to do that. So yeah. That's what I did alongside that as well. And again, I can sit here and say, I dunno how on earth I fitted that in. Yeah. Into, again, I was single by this time as well. Mm-hmm. So I was working, looking after the three children and running a college course, becoming a counselor. I dunno how I. How I fitted all of that in. But you did. There's a lot entailed in that. Yeah, but I did it. You said at the beginning that you're not a TV person. Was you a TV person then? When you were doing all that studying and the kids and no, not really. That's it. I feel like that's a huge suck on people's time without, they feel like it's a way of relaxing and I'm just wondering, perhaps you just never wasted hours in front of the tv? No, I've never really been a TV person. The kids used to, yeah, I used to watch the tv, but I certainly didn't. Mm-hmm. No. So when you, what would your life have looked like at that point when you was looking after the kids you're working in the day? Was it studying every evening or do you think that you had any time for yourself? Any downtime or any hobbies? Yeah. Or back in those days I used to go clubbing. So for me it was dancing. Yeah. I wasn't drinking. I've never been a drinker or anything like that. But for me it was dancing. My release was to go out on a Saturday night with my friends clubbing, and I would be the first on the dance floor. That was me. Drinking water with a slice of lemon and dancing. Yeah. So where other people perhaps might use alcohol and that might then make them feel really tired the next day and they need a lying. You've never needed that because you were on water all night. Yeah. Are you an early morning kind of person? Do you have a morning routine or do you like a lane if you can get one? I like a lion if I can get one, but my lion would probably take me to about half past eight. Okay. It's not, yeah, 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock lying. Yeah. But yeah, if I can't, summer times the children would say Sun's out. Mum's out. But winter, yeah. About half past eight. Yeah. Bummer on my pearl. Yeah. Not to be out. Are you an early to bed person as well, or do you not need a lot of sleep? Oh, I don't go to sleep any later than 10 o'clock at night. Okay. So you got a nice routine. Mm-hmm. With the bedtime, which I think that can be an area. I know for myself, I was really stuck in that area of when my children were younger, I felt like I really needed that wind downtime in the evening when they went to bed. And then I'd watch tv, but then it would suck me in and I'd stay up too late and then I'd be tired in the morning. So it had this unhealthy cycle and it doesn't sound like. Probably you've never had the luxury of even being able to be caught in that cycle. I always had a very strict routine with my children. Very strict. But with yourself as well though. And with myself as well. So they were would've been in bed by seven? Yeah, all of them. And I would've been in bed no later than probably half nine, 10. You was always getting the rest that you needed. Absolutely. And I always had a strict routine that I got up before them, and I was always made sure that I was ready before they were hair done, makeup, everything before them. And I'd be downstairs getting their breakfast ready before. And what about for moms? Now? I'm thinking they might have their phone next to their bedside table, which might be their alarm, and then they look at it and it pulls them in. Maybe the Instagram, maybe the Facebook, whatever the socials are, and then so they're behind. Denise is shaking their head, so it's, yeah. So you've never been stuck in that cycle? No. No. What about your phone now? Would you do that? No. No. My phone is beside me. I tend not to have an alarm to wake me up. It's just organically woken. However, I make a oh, conscious decision never to go on my phone first. So as soon as I wake up the first thing I think of mm-hmm when I wake up is today's gonna be an amazing day. That's my first thought. Yes, Denise? Yes. Okay. So you're quite disciplined in these days then? Absolutely. Absolutely disciplined. So tell us more then. So you wake up, today's gonna be a good day. My very first thought.'cause that's when you're in theater stage, isn't it? Yeah. With your mind. So my very first thought, so the mind is very suggestible at this moment. Absolutely. That's what Denise means. It's that phase between you are awake but you're not fully awake. Mm-hmm. And this actually happens at bedtime as well. For anyone who's listening. This is why. Being on the social media or the TV just before bed, or the news just before bed. It's actually putting a lot into your mind, which is, which may not be helping your life. Mm-hmm. So Denise is saying she's using this theater state consciously to say, I'm gonna have a great day. Absolutely. That's plugging it into your subconscious. Yes. And then every single morning, and then I put my head, my EarPods in, and then I do a meditation. So that could be a 10 minute, 20 minute meditation. So that's going to, I can choose whatever I like. It's normally a nice positive one. And then that's gonna set me up for my day, and then I shall get up and do a little bit of exercise. At the moment, it's my rowing machines, that's my new fad. And then I'll have a shower, and then I'll have some breakfast, and that's the start of my day Then. I'll go on my phone if need to. That'll be emails to answer, text messages, whatever. What time might that be? That's gonna be probably around eight ish. Yeah, half eight by now. And you said you've only just got the row machine, so before so yeah. Do you do exercise every day? And how long is your exercise? 20 minutes. Yeah. So again, it sounds like everything you're doing is like bite-size, manageable. Yeah. You're not trying to say I'm exercising for an hour. Yeah. Not that I'm aware myself. Yeah. I'm not meditating for an hour. You're doing short bite-sized things. Yeah. And does, and it sets your day up, doesn't, it? Makes you feel so much better and alive and. Otherwise, if you wake up thinking, Ugh, I can't be doing today. Then that's you. You've plugged that into your subconscious. Your subconscious is your driver is what I always say. And I always say to people, if I can to your listeners that, imagine that you've got Ferrari sitting outside of your house and there's a chauffeur, okay. In that Ferrari, and you get in that Ferrari, you say to that chauffeur where you would like to go for your day, that chauffeur's gonna take you. On a really lovely ride. But if you get into that car and the Ferrari driver says, where do you wanna go today? And you say I really not bothered. Don't feel like it. That is where it's gonna take you on a really rubbish ride. So simple. So simple. It's so simple. And I to think simply, yes and that's what's gonna happen. But if you jump in and go, come on in, where are we gonna go today? Take me to a really lovely day. Mm-hmm. It will take you to a most fantastic ride for the day. Oh, it's so beautiful. And let's just go back a little bit. You had your first child, and I remember you said the birth wasn't. Like a lot of women will experience Exactly. Maybe as you hoped, wasn't Yeah. What you hoped, and then you wanted to take conscious control of that for your next two. I know sometimes childbirth is out of our control, but again, setting intentions, having a desire for it. So could you tell us, because when you shared in the Curry house about your childbirth, you made it sound really easy and I think that's very unusual. So could you just share a little bit about. Your mindset and your decisions for your next two children. She a lot in that curry house. A lot came out, didn't it? It did. Yeah, so the first birth with Jay was a hospital birth, and I just felt everything was controlled in there. My body wanted to do what it wanted to do, but the medical team blessed them, although they're trained to do what they wanted to do. Was going against everything. Really interesting this chat, because I had a chat with my son the other day and it was like he was two weeks late. I had to be induced, which I was against anyway, because I said to them, can we just leave it? And they said, no, we need to induce you. You're two weeks late. And I said, time and time again, can we just leave this. But then ha they insisted to pop my waters. They popped my waters, they left me. They said, we'll leave you a couple of hours. Trust me in five minutes I was having this baby. They didn't believe me. They looked and they said, oh yes, he's on his way. They didn't know he was here at the time. The baby's on its way. Then he was in distress. So they had to get him out quick. So unfortunately it took them five hours to mend me after that, so that now I was in distress. When I had to chat with my son who's now 30, he's always late. He's always late for everything. He is never on time and he doesn't like to be put under pressure. Isn't that interesting? Very interesting. And I said, your birth, you were late. You were two weeks late. They popped my waters. You didn't wanna come out. They put you under pressure now that you don't like being put under pressure. Isn't that interesting? Influenced his whole life. Absolutely. I'm a great believer of that. So I thought, okay, if ever I have another baby,'cause that actually put me off. Mm-hmm. So it took me 10 years to have another baby, eight years actually. So I thought I'm gonna be in control of this one, so I'm gonna have a home birth. Which they were not very happy with. But I made sure I did and so I made sure there was no medical intervention. I had a midwife there who was actually late. So I did pretty much of it all on my own. Yeah, it takes a lot of courage and confidence and self-belief, especially after a first birth. That was challenging. Mm-hmm. To know that you could do it. Mm-hmm. So where did that come from, knowing that I just could, and I just wanted to, and there was no way that I was gonna go through that again. I was concerned because of the five hours that it took to Yeah. To mend me afterwards. Yeah. So you said you took, you used the word control, but really what it was autonomy that you was taking back. So some people, when they want control, it's like trying to control every minute detail and it doesn't sound like. You were trying to control through fear, but almost through love of knowing what your body's capable of without wanting as much interventions Yeah. From outside sources. That's exactly right, Hannah. I needed my body to do what it needed to do at the time. Yeah. And even when the midwife was there. She kept wanting to check me, which was okay, but I tried to minimize that as well. I just said to her, let baby do what baby needs to do. And so my middle my middle son is so like back, so chilled so lovely and, and it was such a lovely, relaxed birth and I was so relaxed. Wow. Father wasn't, I have to say that's fine because he was, but yeah, it was such and I, again, with my daughter, I did exactly the same with my daughter. So home birth again. Yeah. And you don't hear those words a lot. Such a relaxed birth. I haven't heard many women say that. But really you took that tel autonomy back for yourself, trusted yourself. Mm-hmm. Knew your body, knew what it needed to do. Yeah. And that worked out, it sounds for your highest good in comparison to your first birth, where other people were telling you, even though it was against your will, but you felt like you needed to listen. Yeah. Yeah. It, you felt like that was a much more challenging experience? No, because the, when you take control of your breathing and you are relaxed. It's so different when you're in an environment where the outside noise is that can change your breathing as well. I noticed that with the first birth, when everybody's panicking around you, your breathing changes. So when I'm at home and relaxed and walking around right up until, actually giving birth, it's. It's a different experience altogether. Mm-hmm. That's so beautiful. Thank you for sharing that with us. Mm-hmm. And then you mentioned, obviously now you're doing the counseling. How long have you been doing that now? Oh, about 16 years now. For a long time. Mm-hmm. And you've always given the impression that you love that career and that you do and that you love helping people. And again, Denise, that's quite unusual, if you look at the population, we just talk about England, and you ask most people about their jobs, you can tell they're doing it'cause they feel that they need to or they feel like they're stuck there, but it's paying the bills or that it is easy, but they're sacrificing a lot. And when I spend time with you, it doesn't feel that at all. It feels like you're really making an impact on people's lives. You're making a difference for them, but it's, you are also receiving, obviously receiving financially, but you are getting something from it as well. Mm-hmm. So how has that career been for you and fitting that in? It must have been when you had, your children were teenagers by the sounds of it. Yeah, I think they were very young. Yeah, very young. Yeah. So how was it that fitting all those moving pieces together and finishing one business and then starting the other one, like how was that transition? Easy. Easy. It's the word of the podcast. It's, I'm gonna call this How to have an easy Life. Just worked. It just flowed. It really did just flow. There was nothing difficult about it at all. The training just flowed. Everything just worked out fine. So you never have any doubts around. Am I gonna be able to find clients or will people wanna pay for me? Or how are people gonna find me? Do you ever have any thoughts like that? You know what, yes, I did in the beginning. Yeah. Obviously when I finished training, we all did that in our training sector. Everybody was saying, oh my goodness, how are we gonna find the clients? And I always say, I don't think we should be asking about the hell, really. So when I finished the training, I just thought, I've spent all this money on training. I need to reclaim that back. Yeah. So I thought about renting a room. I knew where I wanted to rent a room. I knew I wanted it to be just not far from me. And I thought, okay, let's put it out there to the universe if you like. If somebody wants to share a room with me. Nice. So I met a lovely lady and she said, yeah, I do that with you. So we shared a room, but it just came apparent that I was got too busy for her. Which was quite sad in a way. But I said, no, this is how it's meant to be. I'll leave you the room and I'll move across the road. So that's how it works. So she, you always make things easy. You don't have to have a difficult conversation that she needs to move out because you rented it. You just found a new space. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it did get a little bit difficult because I was using up most of the diary and she wasn't, and yeah, she felt a little bit, yeah, I understand. But we made it work and I just said, okay, I'll move over because. I'm using up most of the diary, so I moved across and it's, that's how it's been ever since. Yeah, it's been great. And you've told me recently that it's not like you're always working all the time. You said that you just wanna earn enough to pay your bills, but also have an enjoyable life and to do the things that you want. Yeah. Again, so refreshing. Yeah. And I find it an absolute privilege to do what I do where people are coming to me with their challenges and every client. I do I thank the universe for allowing them to come to me and every day, every single day when I'm going to work I speak to the universe and thank them for that. So you've got an attitude of gratitude on the daily. Yeah. Yeah, I do. And you've mentioned to me before that you bring other things into your sessions, so things like EFT and breath work. So it's not literally just talking. Tell us a little bit about maybe what a session might look like for someone when you include those things. Okay. So it depends. I work, with the client, tailor it to their needs obviously. So if I feel that a client might need something extra just than talking therapy, yeah. Then I'll bring something in like EFT, which is emotional freedom technique, isn't it? It's just tapping. Yeah. To release some tension or that's around the body and. Help them further for their day and yeah. And they're stuck thoughts, stuck, repeating thoughts as well, isn't it? The emotion that's attached to that. Yes. So you work in quite a holistic way really then. Yeah. Yeah. I always say I work Denise's way, so I work many ways, but I like to work Denise's way. There's no stuck modality to. So it, yeah. Yeah. In a more freeing way. Beautiful. And I know that obviously you've been working through some personal things in the time that I've known you we're always growing mm-hmm. And always working through personal things. And just as we are coming towards the end of the podcast, is there anything that you could share around things that you are, you've been stepping into more? So is it like more learning or more boundary setting, or more like what have you been stepping into more in your life in recent years? Do you know what I would just say to anybody? Just learn to be free with yourself. Free. Just learn to just be yourself. There's no shaming in that at all. And I've learned to, I undo so many things of who you are meant to be and it, there's no meant to be anything or. Who society expects you to be. We've all done that, conditioned ourselves to be a certain way or person. Just be who you want to be, who you feel you need to be, not for someone else. Just be who you wanna be for you. That's so beautiful. And yeah, just do it and if there's something you wanna do. Do it. If it's something you wanna be, be it. And if it's something you wanna have it nice. And then you'll find a way to do it. Won't you be, do have. Yeah. Yeah. And just always be grateful. Even if there's a day, if you've got an off day, just be grateful for that off day.'cause it's telling you something. We don't really know what a good day is. If we don't have a bad day. Sometimes there's no good or bad really. But how would we know what's wonderful if we don't know what's not wonderful and got nothing to compare it to it might be more grateful. That's it. Absolutely. Yeah. So Denise, if I was listening, I'd be like, I wanna follow you. I want to hear some of your advice, some of your wisdom. Are you want of the socials? I do have, I'm on TikTok. I do poems things for TikTok. It's therapeutic poems, have you got a counseling page? Yes. I've got a WW dot Therapeutic counseling with Denise. It is my website. We are both based in Kings Hill, which is in Kent. So that's where you run your practice from, isn't it? And do you do online as well yeah, do online. So anyone, anywhere around the country. Anybody with any disabilities that are local to me, I do home visits. Denise, thank you so much for the interview today for reminding us on how sometimes challenging things can be easy, and it's really about the attitude, and I think what I learned from you today as well, apart from the positive attitude and the mindset is. Your simple routines, your discipline that you've got with yourself, with these sort of bedtimes, waking, your exercise, your practices in the morning, like not getting sucked into your phone, not getting sucked into the tv. It feels like that's made life a little bit easier for you compared to if you was doing all of those things. So thank you for sharing that all today. No, it's been a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you a million times, Ava, for joining us on this podcast episode. You can support the show by giving us a follow on any podcast platform you're listening to this on. If you already follow up, then thank you so much and maybe share this episode. 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