Inside HR: What They Really Think About Hiring, Burnout & Favoritism

What does HR really think when they see your resume?

Why does hiring take so long?

And when leaders play favorites—does anyone step in?

In this episode of Corporate Elements, we take a no-fluff look inside the HR world—straight from someone who lives it. From job applications and promotions to burnout, bench policies, and exits, we ask the questions you’ve always wanted to—and get honest answers.

Whether you’re just starting out, gunning for a promotion, or feeling stuck—this episode gives you real insights into the people who shape your career behind the scenes.

Don’t miss this deep dive into the people who shape office politics—listen now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Podbean, or your favorite platform!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

So let me ask you this, have you ever applied for a job and thought is my resume even the right format or sat through rounds of interviews wondering why hiring process feels like a mystery novel with no ending in sight? So here I am, Johnny and this is Corporate Elements and where we unpack real workplace questions with people who live them every day. Today we are diving into the world of HR recruitment. Yup, that department everyone depends on but no one really understands. from what makes your resume stand out why hiring feels so slow what is the leadership thinking while hiring and what is favoritism burnout and even mental health and how is it handled or not we are working through your career journey and from the first job hunt to your final exit with an insider who's seen it all so we are joined today with Dimple she has years of experience in human resources recruitment specifically Having worked across tech, finance and startup ecosystems, whether it is hiring leaders, designing people policies or managing tensions between employee expectations and business realities, this guest has been on the front lines. So if you ever thought what does HR recruitment really does behind closed doors, you're about to find out. Hi Rimpal, Robby.

SPEAKER_02: 1:23

Hi Robby, good afternoon.

SPEAKER_00: 1:26

It's a pleasure to have you and I'm really excited because today I've got an opportunity to ask you those questions which has been really bothering us all and for a while to be honest. To start with, is there really like one right way to write a resume? Okay. The format I use is said to be a Singapore-based format and I found it on internet. But I want to understand since many job seekers are obsessed over formatting.

SPEAKER_02: 1:55

Okay. So you want to understand, is there one specific format? There isn't. So it's not, you know, that one formula suits all. It varies from experience and industries both. So if somebody is a... pressure, is in a frontline job, going to apply for a frontline job, needs a photo, has to have one page of resume. Even somebody who's a 30-year-old experienced person, any industry has to have one to two max page of resume without a photo is fine. So, you know, it's how it works. That's one formula you can use. However, you know, when it comes to mid-senior levels and other levels, usually two-pager resume is good, nothing more than that.

SPEAKER_00: 2:40

And the way these people, like a lot of resumes that I've seen is like they put photos in that. Is that like really necessary? Because one of my friends, what they said that, oh, sometimes it leads to bias as well.

SPEAKER_02: 2:54

Photos are required in, you know, roles where it is frontline. Frontline roles, they do need it. And even if you are not comfortable giving it, until and unless the HR asks, you don't give it. That's something you can do.

SPEAKER_00: 3:07

And by frontline, what do you mean? Is it like into sales or anything?

SPEAKER_02: 3:10

into sales into customer service like how you have cabin crews in aviation so those are the roles that need photographs they need to check your personality they need to see how you look and you know then decide

SPEAKER_00: 3:22

and what are all the content on the resume that are focused on for example the objective like how impactful or how big or brief it should be

SPEAKER_02: 3:36

it depends so if you want to put an objective specifically just ensure it's nothing more than three to four lines because you know whether you're a fresher or you're a 30 years experienced or 10-15 years also four lines is good enough to describe it in the beginning because you know in while hiring what we essentially look at is how many years of experience you have skill set right and your focus on which skills that's it

SPEAKER_00: 4:07

and how about certifications

SPEAKER_02: 4:09

certifications you can cover in the educational sector so I'll tell you how you know a standard resume can look like and it can attract recruiters so objective is the first bit you can begin with your name your phone number email your personal details right go for objective then go for experience which means it has to start with the most recent company you're working with I have seen and struggled with resumes which are last company first

SPEAKER_01: 4:37

oh

SPEAKER_02: 4:38

believe me it's a turn off and lot of people you know tend to just reject CVs like these because they understand that they assume that this person doesn't know how to write a resume right so your last experience should be first and all of the things that you've done in your career life you have to put it there because if you say you know my initial three years experience was not relevant to what I'm currently doing then I only assume as a third person me at recruiter level and my hiring manager we both assume that you were on a you were at home. We don't assume that you were working. So you have to add that.

SPEAKER_00: 5:15

And what if someone has a gap for how long period of gap is acceptable?

SPEAKER_02: 5:21

Today we are trying to normalize gaps. As recruiters, it is our responsibility that we make the hiring panel understand that gaps are okay to have because, you know, at my level, I do not reject resumes. No recruiter will reject resumes based on the gap. but your hiring panel will do because they have somebody set in some set of thoughts in mind

SPEAKER_00: 5:47

yeah so and as long as I feel like you can echo that thought or probably support it with some point set say if there is a gap so that gap needs to be explainable okay so if I believe I've had some interview where the one of our managers say that oh there is a bit of a gap can is it explainable do you have any kind of information on this one. So I would say yes, yes, sir, because this particular candidate who came in this gap, he explained it this way. And at that point of time, he supported with the certification that he was doing, or probably there was a medical issue that was happening. And this way, we tried to probe a little bit. So as long as it is explainable, I think that is acceptable. What do you think, Nabil?

SPEAKER_02: 6:35

Agreed. As long as you have a logical explanation to it, it is completely acceptable. And, uh, people are getting hired even with gaps today. It's, uh, you know, it's, it's something that a recruiter needs to bridge.

SPEAKER_00: 6:48

So now the hot topic for me, and it always, uh, sort of, uh, you know, has been a burning question for me. Why do people so focus so much on the tier one colleges hiring? Why is it like overhyped or is it necessary? Why, why do you think it's so overhyped?

SPEAKER_02: 7:06

Whole and sole reason is that, uh, you know, the Tier 1 colleges have curriculums that are set for, you know, for the students to come up to a specific level. You know, they are able to handle that pressure. They're able to handle those tough deadlines at college level. So they're able to meet the corporate expectation. And it doesn't work similarly in other tiers. So that's one primary thing. However, I also find that changing of late, a lot of IIMs, to be honest and specific, that, you know, the the dead sorry the what do you say the percentages to get there have you know reduced you know even people with 50-60% are getting admissions basis the quota factor and the you know, again, that quality has come down. So that's why you see, you know, a company like EY keeping drives for 12th pass students for a specific data science project or for a specific data science role. Yeah. Right. So because, you know, companies and industries are now realizing that skill is important. But having said this, I would say largely the tier one tag still works. Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 8:21

Yeah. I recently, like, had read about IIM Trichy year probably IIM Jammu they had like 50-67 students who went like they were not placed anywhere and it is sort of an alarming situation that even IIMs are not able to now get jobs for their students and at the like at the management level like what can can be those reasons can like have you come across any such scenarios as such

SPEAKER_02: 8:53

like I said earlier or the is primarily because of the quota system that is still running in these colleges also earlier probably it was not there but today with that system in place a lot of people who who have got even you know less than the scoring percentages that are required to get into an im in the first place they're also getting into ims beat jammu beats and more there are a lot of these small ims that have come up but again these students face issues with hiring

SPEAKER_00: 9:24

okay yeah and And moving on to the next question, why does hiring take so long? Like, is it the process overload or the communication?

SPEAKER_02: 9:34

Hiring is actually not long. Any specific scenarios you want to highlight, you know, where you felt, where you guys personally felt that hiring was, you know, went on for long?

SPEAKER_00: 9:44

I think there was one scenario that I saw. I think the last two organizations that I've seen, the hiring is quite slow, mainly because now, especially in big companies that I've worked with, so these there I have seen that it takes quite a long time because every department or probably a process that they're working in so or the project I'm so sorry for using process the word it is project so any project that they're working on so there the requirement comes in from there and then it is communicated to HR and then so on so I think that whole deal takes a quite a long time at least I have seen that 90 days days of time they're spending or 90 days they're spending just to make sure that they put out that particular requirement outside. So that is one scenario that I've seen.

SPEAKER_02: 10:36

I believe that can be project specific. If your requirement or if your headcount is final, you know, position can be closed as fast as 30 days. Okay. And when I say closed, I mean offered and then person can take their own notice period to join.

SPEAKER_00: 10:51

Okay. Yeah. And so this one, so the same scenario how these people solved it was that they took a like a large data set of last 2-3 years of hiring post COVID and they found out that we are taking 90-120 days just to hire one person and then they have had scenarios at the 90th or 110th day they come to know that oh this particular person joined some other company so that also affects the mindset of the person so what they did is the very good thing about what they understood although it took like a year to understand but what they did is that oh let's on a monthly basis starting from day one we start asking departments do you have any requirements do you have anything and even before a requirement requisition is raised first they float it out in the on the internet or like for example linkedin sorry it is linkedin or probably any job portals and then they you know combine those resumes on on day 24 or day 25 and on day 30th what they do is they put a drive so this way the whole organization they pile up like a 30 positions requirement they on the 38th day they will start you know interviews and by 35th day they will have a pool of candidates and they start finalizing those candidates at that point so they were able to bring down the number from 120 days to literally 30 days so that is what they did so I found it very interesting kind of case study at that point of time I don't think it's working

SPEAKER_02: 12:29

yeah I mean if you ask me personally I've not seen a lot of cases where hiring has been slow in a scenario if at all you feel you know if a candidate feels or if somebody feels that I'm you know I was interviewed say two weeks back or something and I'm not given a role yet I have been told that I have been selected I've not been given offer etc see these are the scenarios when you know say a project comes up so this is services and IT specifically that I'm talking about, the project was supposed to come up, it didn't come up. But the hiring was projected on the projected project. Okay. So that didn't happen probably. That's one scenario. But if you go in any other industry headcounts, when headcounts are decided in the beginning of the year, when the budgeting is done, those are the requirements that quickly, you know, close down. And only reasons for the slowdown could be, you know, I don't think internal processes are also slow because Because every hiring panel who I have worked with personally, they wanted the hire to come yesterday. So yeah, so that's the kind of deadline I have faced throughout my, you know, so many years of work experience. Yeah. So if you have to, you know, ask me to boil down, why is it slow? Two, three factors. Your projects are not in place. You know, probably the headcounts are decided and, you know, somebody all of a sudden just resigns. You know, somebody who was not expected to go. Those strategies have to be in place. Those are the two, three factors at work.

SPEAKER_00: 14:06

And the next question is another very important aspect is baggage checks like how are they affecting the whole process of recruitment

SPEAKER_02: 14:17

honestly today more than ever background checks have been have become important because a lot of certifications degrees are coming fake and this is you know especially happening a lot in IT and a lot at the junior level also in the other industries right so hence background verification background checks have become extremely important companies are outsourcing these and you know these companies the companies who are getting these projects to verify background, they're taking it very seriously and a lot of cases do come up.

SPEAKER_00: 14:49

Robi, I've also heard that there is something called as narco tests as well that are happening, right? Yeah, candidates are tested for drug abuse. Recently, I have heard Accenture did that as a part of hiring process. There was this candidature, he was asked to provide some samples for testing purpose and he was was given a form to acknowledge also as a part of hiring. So that even being part of the industry for five years back, when I heard that, I found like it's really strange. So I was wondering whether the drug abuse is like happening in the industry and what are the actions taken on that part?

SPEAKER_02: 15:31

If you talk about HR policies and drug abuse, I mean, you know, when you join an organization, you go through these policies which tell you not to do it. But then if somebody is, you know, using these things externally after their working hours as an organization you know becomes very tough to track and you know take that responsibility and ownership so if you know a company is doing that then probably it is important for the role I am not justifying anybody here it could be one factor you know threat and in these cities only in tier one cities today a lot of drug abuse is happening and alcohol abuse is happening I mean that's the truth so these new things are coming up earlier we were not doing credit checks.

SPEAKER_00: 16:12

Why is it? I thought it was limited to banks or the type of PTC. Is it that every industry is doing this?

SPEAKER_02: 16:20

Today they are doing it. I recently heard about a manufacturing organization do it. Earlier I also knew that banks were doing it because just to ensure that they are not hiring defaulters. So that's the only reason they have. And I feel somewhere or the other these are the things that matter in long term because I'll just give you one example where I practically was a part of a situation like that so i was an hr for a it services organization and we hired somebody at the regional head level and he was he worked with us for good three months in the beginning and he you know he came across as somebody who's very strict or you know very authoritative so he would make decisions and just you know ask us to follow and probably that's okay you know in a in a large fashion that's okay because you know he was a sales head now one fine day so he had a sales team of around say 10 people right and one fine day one of them came up to me and said that you know there are he's asking us all for money

SPEAKER_01: 17:27

why

SPEAKER_02: 17:27

yeah yeah and that's a it's a scenario that I'm giving you basis my experience what I've observed right and we found out that you know he was asking money to every team member even after being a regional head he had he had his own reasons probably right that factor they used to you know sales people usually tend to hang out post their working hours etc that's a normal practice and that's okay now asking money post you know working hours and hanging out together alcohol and all of that probably that's okay but asking money and keeping it for three months four months after that somebody highlighted you know this is happening and then I found out that he has taken money from almost all the team members and everybody then spoke up that, you know, 50K spending, 20K spending. So it's a real time scenario that happened. Post which, you know, it went to the HR head. My HR head was based in Bangalore and we had to terminate him then. Yeah. So that's why, you know, credit checks have become very important because these things are happening.

SPEAKER_00: 18:37

Okay. And coming, moving on to the next question. like how me as as an employee and how can i negotiate my salary without sounding greedy or desperate and i believe that i deserve a certain percentage of hike and as per the industry standards i hear from other new joinees that okay certain percent of hike was given so how can one negotiate that or what works behind behind the cost

SPEAKER_02: 19:07

see how can you negotiate today a lot of content you know, goes around this particular area. While they, you know, ask you to ask specific questions and all of that, largely, you know, it doesn't work that much. But if you want me to be honest about it, there's a good way of negotiating and I can give you a good way and you can use it and you can see if it works for you because I have seen it working for others. So if you are taking up an offer from a company and you have another interviews another interview that you're going to give ensure that you're giving 2-3 interviews at 2-3 different companies and cracking them right and you have to have another offer in hand in order to negotiate one

SPEAKER_00: 19:55

with just one offer I cannot negotiate

SPEAKER_02: 19:58

you cannot negotiate as in

SPEAKER_00: 20:01

I just have one offer

SPEAKER_02: 20:02

if you have just one offer then you got to be smart enough and find out the budget have internal connections find out budgets you have to find out what is the budget so that you can negotiate if they are telling you they don't have the budget and they really don't have the budget

SPEAKER_00: 20:17

if for example I did my web search and from that I found that for a certain position that I am applying there is a certain threshold of salary which is defined and that is the only offer that HR also was giving me and they were not able to push up the threshold as they are saying that there are certain approvals that are required

SPEAKER_02: 20:40

in

SPEAKER_00: 20:40

that in that scenario what can be done

SPEAKER_02: 20:43

like i said you got to find out what is

SPEAKER_00: 20:45

the element that the web search result they

SPEAKER_02: 20:48

offer web search result if if you feel that's the truth you can talk to your hr you can ask them to support you and sometimes they will

SPEAKER_00: 20:56

okay i think uh sometimes you have to do a little brute force checking like for example when you go on LinkedIn I think you might find that particular there are like people who are working in that same department or probably same sort of situation in that same organization or related organization so you can ask them that okay what is the normal range of salary that is one way to check but the basis of everything I just want to add over here is that in that particular field in that industry or in that organization where you're working in okay something that should be constant is her performance if your performance is constant and you are like at least meeting expectation or slightly exceeding expectations and they know that you are a dependable person so that is that is how you create the mindset that okay this person is a dependable person so that is the first thing second thing I felt that you can play this game during the appraisal season slightly before the appraisal season that oh I have this offer right now and it is 30% or 40% or whatever. So is it possible if we can match it during the appraisal? And if you can, you know, have at least a discussion, okay, that okay. So you get the general mindset of the management or two, are they able to do it or not? Of course, they won't put it on an email or probably in writing. But when you talk to them, are they positive or negative about it? See how it is going. If it is going in your favor, well and good. If you're planning to do it that way. But don't do that thing or this is me personally that you put down your papers and then you ask for an appraisal is not how I don't I will not another way to deal yeah because then it will be like oh you're trying to play hardball or probably the what you call it the power game with them so yeah so I won't do that personally but there are people who do that as well but then it sort of takes away the respect from the management that oh he will do this again probably and you can't do this like every year at least probably I will say give a cooling period of 2-3 years. I also want to ask that how management perceives a candidate who is trying to switch or trying to find new opportunity in span of 6-7 months? So what if someone wants to switch or change the industry or get another opportunity in span of 6 months?

SPEAKER_02: 23:30

First of all, it is not advisable. how much ever you say we are in a different generation era etc it is not advisable for various reasons and i'll come to that second of all if at all you're you have to do it for whatever reasons i mean ensure that you have a very valid reason to do it first because you know as long as as much as we say it's okay it's not the hiring panel doesn't like it the hr doesn't like it because for a very simple reason let me you know come to that reason that i'm saying and now the reason is that you know unless you are there for an organization in an organization working with them for at least two to three years you have no idea how an organization functions because you know you cannot know the organization in six months even if it is a startup unless you give it time and effort and days you don't know how each and every function how each and every individual what are the ups and downs of that organization that are coming in right and while you know that you are in a position to get to the next level right and if you if you are at a particular level every six months you decide you know i want to jump to a new opportunity i'm not finding this interesting probably going to ask your hiring manager to give you something interesting to work so that's one thing you should explore before just taking up a decision and saying no i want to move on

SPEAKER_00: 24:53

so it's better to discuss internally it is

SPEAKER_02: 24:56

absolutely better if you're hiring if your working terms are good if you're finding your work interesting you're just finding it boring for for the timing because you've been doing this for the last six months and you think that no, I should be given more responsibilities. So take more responsibilities.

SPEAKER_00: 25:11

So next question is about hiring leads, like hiring leaders. So what exactly are you or what is the HR or probably the organization looking into? Is it like the experience, charisma or is it like just a cultural fit thing?

SPEAKER_02: 25:26

In which you're saying?

SPEAKER_00: 25:27

In leadership roles. In

SPEAKER_02: 25:29

leadership role, it's a combination. It's never one thing. I need skill that is non-negotiable. I need cultural fit. Again, that is non-negotiable for the simple reason that culture flows top down.

SPEAKER_01: 25:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 25:44

And if you do not think the way I as an organization think, then you cannot pass it on to your juniors. So that's why it's very important. And what else did you say?

SPEAKER_00: 25:56

Cultural fit and probably the experience or the charisma. The charisma.

SPEAKER_02: 26:01

The charisma is, see, at a leadership level, if you are somebody who's sitting at their own chair, the eight hours of working, then I'm not sure how many face-to-face discussions, one-on-one discussions you're doing and what is the output of the day. I mean, that's very important. It's important to talk to your team every day. It's important to understand what your team is doing on a daily basis just to, you know, just to be a successful one and at large, you know, see that success down your team.

SPEAKER_00: 26:30

And you mentioned eight hours. So this brings to my next question is that I have seen that, okay, a lot of companies do this 8 hour 9 hour policy but then a lot of people end up working 11 hours

SPEAKER_02: 26:42

see today that has become the norm you know out of the stringent budgets people are working on and India as a country I feel it's in a growth phase and in growth phase you do things that you have not done earlier and probably that's a part of it but it is burning us out

SPEAKER_01: 26:59

correct

SPEAKER_02: 26:59

so it is very important at an individual level that burnout is recognized and it is spoken about And, uh, you know, I, as a person, if you ask me personally, I feel burnout is not required. One can work good eight hours focused, nine hours at the most and finish their work and finish their day and do the rest the next day. If there are scenarios one has to work, then probably it is, it is how it is. I would not say it is wrong. I cannot say that. I take up an example that, you know, today there's an engineer. So let's, let's talk about it. IT engineer or a developer who's working probably on an application. They had a, they had the product launch today. There was some production issue, right? They went through the production issue, the entire eight hours. It didn't, you know, it didn't get solved. And you know, there was something important happening. The launch was happening. The launch had to, you know, fly that day, all of that. Then that person has to work 11 hours. I mean, if your need of the hour is not to work 11 hours, don't. But in a scenario like this, one cannot be sleeping off right

SPEAKER_01: 28:10

yeah

SPEAKER_02: 28:11

yeah so so I wouldn't justify organizations like that but a scenario like that is I mean one can take their own call whether they want to work or don't want to work and honestly companies can't stop but they end up making decisions

SPEAKER_00: 28:27

so the burnout is real it is and in that sense what if there is a conflict between an employee and the manager and employee believes that There is a coup between HR and the management. So there is this loss of faith. So how do we manage that?

SPEAKER_02: 28:46

See, as an HR, if one has to manage employee burnout, then they have to evaluate. So today, I'll tell you, we were doing this evaluation and we're still in that process. We are evaluating the eight hours of work that individuals are doing on a daily basis. And it is for each department, each function. Now, if, and when this, this kind of evaluation is done, only then we know who has been burnt out. So it's very important that companies do this kind of evaluation and understand whether these eight hours of work is happening or, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 29:22

People are working in bad faith.

SPEAKER_02: 29:24

People are working 11 hours. Some are, some, some of them are not working even five hours. So that's something that needs to be figured out at a individual level. Only then this burnout question is going to be answered.

SPEAKER_00: 29:36

So there is a process. of doing time and motion study at a reasonable hours to understand that okay this is the time effort is required and accordingly we do the strength management of a team correct so this brings to my next segment wherein we will talk about promotions because promotions is like a very touchy topic for quite a lot of employees as such as us so is promotion purely about performance or is it like you know checking individual boxes that nobody knows about properly. So can you put some light on that particular topic?

SPEAKER_02: 30:14

Honestly, both. It's not only performance. So one has to check a few more boxes at an individual level. I mean, see, that's not necessarily... something that you do at an individual level for your bosses but just you know come across as somebody who wants that promotion who feels that they deserve that promotion because if you are going to think that you know I have performed now my manager should give me a promotion and just sit back and relax it's not going to work you have to you know be vocal enough in front of the team in front of your manager in front of your management that you know I have done this kind of work I think I deserve this promotion. You have to say it out loud.

SPEAKER_00: 31:01

And I have seen a few hires at the leadership level which appears to be not as a great fit from the position perspective or from the team management perspective. So in that case, even if the team is pretty vocal, but now that the hiring is done, there is nothing much done about it. So in such scenarios, what can be done? I

SPEAKER_02: 31:26

didn't get that question. Wrong

SPEAKER_00: 31:27

hired.

SPEAKER_02: 31:28

Wrong hired and?

SPEAKER_00: 31:31

If I see that there is a managerial position available and the person is hired from some other industry

SPEAKER_01: 31:38

and

SPEAKER_00: 31:39

this person is new trying to bring a new culture we are okay with that but we still feel that the person is not competent enough and we find that this person may lack knowledge or we compare with the previous leaders or we compare with ourselves but we we see that it's not a good fit

SPEAKER_02: 32:01

okay so just because the industry is different people around in the team you're saying will feel that it's you know this person is not fitting in I think

SPEAKER_00: 32:09

that's a myth competent level I

SPEAKER_02: 32:11

think that's a myth because when you change your job one thing you got to get aligned with is the culture of the organization other than you know other than your regular work you got to also get aligned with the culture of the organization so That's also important. I mean, competencies and skills are something that do not change largely. Largely, it is a cultural fit. If you, you know, go and see around yourself, around your team.

SPEAKER_00: 32:40

One more, probably a change of attitude happens that I have seen in one of the organizations that I worked at WorldSwiss. I remember this CEO who like literally created the firm from the scratch and he passed away. and he had this particular culture he had built in the organization that you have to protect the little soldiers okay and the minute he passed away and the person who came in there was a cultural shift that I had seen that it was fire or fire fire and fire situation because at that point of time the organization was going through the COVID phase and everything so then it was very easy for the organization to you know fire people before that it was like really tough like you needed to have like good grounds to fire people but then eventually when the whole management shift happened I think it was like chaos and they were getting rid of people left right and center and a lot of those people went away who were high cost low output they were the first ones so I think either the new manager or whoever the leader is he brings that cultural cultural change or he has to fit into a culture either or so it completely depends on the very highest level of the hierarchy but otherwise like someone who is at the production level and managing a production level thing I feel that those people will not directly make a change it will be mainly the ones that are like sitting on the CEO executive level that will bring the change yes there might be conflicts for individuals but I believe that in a six months or a year's time those people will probably have trouble because if they're not fitting in the culture then it sort of stands out like a sore thumb and that brings out to the next topic is if there is a clash with leaders so who will protect the little guy like how how does HR help in that situation

SPEAKER_02: 34:58

so if you're saying if there's a change in the leadership and the leadership styles are different

SPEAKER_00: 35:03

and if say for example even if it is the same leader the new person or probably a working person who has already been there and if there is a clash okay so that's one of the scenarios that has happened okay leaders clashed with a certain employee for a certain reason how who protects that guy

SPEAKER_02: 35:23

see largely in clashes if you ask me you don't need to protect as such anybody if somebody is performing and you know they can show their output and stuff you know they're not touched upon but if somebody is a non-performer and the leaders have been protecting them for years then then, you know, there's nothing much HR can do in that case. Because one has to give a logical reason to the management to save that little guy.

SPEAKER_00: 35:55

And the next question, or probably something that can be said is, or I've seen is, is favoritism in the leadership. Does really HR step in whenever things go a little awry?

SPEAKER_02: 36:08

Yes, they do. we have to so

SPEAKER_00: 36:12

and how will one highlight this like do you have any real life scenarios

SPEAKER_02: 36:17

yes yes I'll tell you so in fact in the appraisal process and in your reviews process quarterly reviews or whatever reviews you're doing HR is a part so there's a role called HR business partner which is today a very fancy role but it's a very important role to have in an organization these are the people who are assigned few departments and they know each and every individual in that department their work their nature you know their backgrounds etc and they are the ones who are unbiased third party to these conversations and they need to you know help take the right decision they need to have a have their own opinion so that's why these kind of roles are today you know coming up it was not there earlier right so HR business partner as a person helps you know the team member in that fashion is what i would say and if you so if i have to talk about a specific scenario I mean, appraisal is one specific area which is usually covered and it is the HR's job to let the management know the reality of that team and that team member and the clashes between them. So I myself have been an integral part of these processes. I used to handle an entire sales team as an HR, sales plus technical, but largely sales team were the ones who we were facing on a daily basis. So it was very important to be on top of everybody's daily performance. And I mean, I had no choice but to, you know, sorry.

SPEAKER_00: 37:57

Micromanage.

SPEAKER_02: 37:58

Not micromanage. Know about people. Right? Micromanage is something that managers do. I mean, you know, as an HR, I cannot micromanage. I cannot ask questions which I have no idea on. Correct? I would know things. I mean, you know, as an HR VP, today we have a monthly checking. You must have, you know, you must have gone through monthly check-ins, quarterly reviews. These are the things that are, you know, that are active today. People are, or HR departments are doing these things today just to be on top of things and understand understand what is happening in each team. And this is just to assess efficiency till the ground level. So.

SPEAKER_00: 38:37

What if my HR business partner doesn't reach out to me? It's been seven, eight months down the line. So do you think that I should go ahead and reach out to my HR partner?

SPEAKER_02: 38:49

Yes, you should. So there is something called as, you know, skip level meetings. Ideally, the, you know, the hierarchical flow, if you ask me, it is, you know, your manager doesn't listen to you, you go to the next manager. If that man doesn't listen to your business, the hierarchy there's a next manager you go to them if they do not listen to you then you go to the HR that's the flow of skip that should happen right but then if you think that you know these three people or two people are not aligned with me you can directly reach out to HR

SPEAKER_00: 39:20

and what will be the typical structure of an HR department

SPEAKER_02: 39:25

typically so so let's let's take a startup right which is you know which just has a few members today and probably HR is not very structured in that company So usually one HR is important because hiring is something that people do, you know, HR does, your appraisal processes and, you know, your training and developments, your daily payrolls, monthly, you know, those payroll cycles and stuff. So that is, you know, these are the different functions that are important. So in a startup kind of scenario, at least one person is there. Now, if you talk about a company that is, you know, structured there for many years, has one or two K of strength, they're typically would have hiring as important part because of yearly replacements that are done payroll as important right and training and development or rather there's a generalist HR role that is there so which takes upon training and development performance management right so they take a combination of these things these are the three people which are very important as an HR

SPEAKER_00: 40:29

and HR business partner is the closest one to the employee

SPEAKER_02: 40:34

you can say that

SPEAKER_00: 40:35

wow So, the hardest questions about the HR, you know, they have to deal with is, you know, benching or layoffs or exits. So, what does being on bench really mean? Like, how does the HR team, how are they handling it currently?

SPEAKER_02: 40:54

Benching, you mean ready to take up the next project?

SPEAKER_00: 40:57

Yes, that is one. So, that is the first stop. So, in between projects.

SPEAKER_02: 41:02

In between projects. See, benching has been... You know, it exists for a long time. I mean, it's not new. If I specifically talk about layoffs, I mean, today, even HR roles are facing those scenarios where even HR is getting laid off. At the end of the day, as an employee, everybody needs to understand even HR is an employee. It's not the company. It's not, you know, it's not their company. It's not their organization. It's not their profits. It's not, you know, it doesn't belong to them. They're just the face of the management. Management cannot come to each and every department on a daily basis. That's why we exist. Right. And at the end of the day, we are also employees. We are following, a lot of times we're following the instructions. So one has to understand and, you know, align with that thought. Correct. Which I think is largely misunderstood.

SPEAKER_00: 42:00

Yeah. And like I've seen that when there is an exit, a lot of times the organizations, specifically the management becomes a sort of a little hostile towards the employee. So have you seen such kind of trends as such in your recent experiences?

SPEAKER_02: 42:20

I have.

UNKNOWN: 42:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 42:22

companies do become hostile. It's a fact. And I would accept it. But, you know, how I as an HR made a difference, I can tell you that. Because in such a scenario, one can only take a stand for the employee, whether they are performing, not performing. At the end of the day, we as an HR professionals need to understand that, you know, somebody, you know, whoever's going is a human. And you need to have that kind of basic sense, you know, somebody is going, you will let them go peacefully. You let them go with a good note. Right. And we here are here, you know, we are here to work, we are here to earn. And so is the organization. Right. And the only thing, you know, that I would tell any HR to do is whoever is going, just let them go peacefully and with a good note, whether they're performing, not performing is nothing is, you know, is not a place where we should judge them individually and, and to the employee. that you know HR is not responsible to fire they're not responsible for layoffs they're not doing layoffs executing them either they are just the front faces of the management and you know, as much as the employee is unaware of these things, HR can be unaware. I wouldn't say always, but there's a possibility that this person who's, you know, giving you that message is not aware, was not aware of the details of what went on there.

SPEAKER_00: 43:53

So it's a management decision?

SPEAKER_02: 43:54

It is a management decision. And if the HR is very junior, you know, high chances are that this person is not aware, right? They're just executing. And probably you know somebody who's a fresher HR asked to do these things believe me largely they are they're not known the reasons are not known to them it it the reasons are only limited till the top management yeah

SPEAKER_00: 44:18

so so I think the main crux of getting into an organization and then you know years of employee works into into that particular role so HR play quite a lot of important roles but I think even the employee needs to understand that oh HR is just a human being as Dimple specified in her dialogue that yes HR also has to manage 10,000 things so an organization which has like 100 to 100 or probably thousands of employees and then there's only one single HR that is assigned to them you have to be a little nice to HR you have to be like whenever you're reaching out to them So you have to be like, OK, can we set up a time and do these things or have this particular discussion? Because I feel that I'm not clear with this particular policy. So people, specifically freshers, I would say don't get into the mindset of OHR is not helpful. HR is helpful, but you have to give them a little time for them to come back to you. You have to ensure that official communication is done. If you have some kind of a query or a question, you reach out to them nicely. you get that information and then probably you deal with that situation that way rather than just you know badmouthing HR that oh they are there only for recruitment and exit but there is no specific communication in between I really don't think so that it that's how it works HR never works it but probably they're in the shadows but yeah yeah but I think behind every policy there is a person and today we heard their voice correct and I'm sure they that this conversation will give people clarity and very good understanding. And it's been a pleasure, Dimple. It's great to have you. And today, the conversation has been so insightful and I'm so excited. And it's just, thank you for being part of the show.

SPEAKER_02: 46:24

Thank you for having me over. I would only say, you know, as the last note that I would always try to, you know, give you insights as an individual or as an HR. I would say that, you know, this role is largely misunderstood and people just have their own assumptions. a lot of you know people from the business are close to me but then they still have that one set of mind that which is very wrong

SPEAKER_00: 46:53

but i'm sure that perception will change correct sure so with this we come to an end to an interesting conversation today and for all the listeners out there if you have any any any topics you can always reach out to us on our fan page that's on spot for Corporate Elements and if you have any questions or queries you can post it out over there and we will look at it and probably have a conversation so you never know whatever you're saying probably can become a conversation so with this note I take a sign off and thank you everyone and keep listening to Corporate Elements