Outgrowing Your Swim Lane -- Jesse Moore on Sinking from Success to Swim into Your Heart's Purpose

What happens when the life that once defined you — the job, the highest levels of success, the relationships — no longer fits?

In this deeply honest and heart-forward episode of Sink AND Swim, Julie sits down with Jesse Moore, former NCAA Division 1 champion swim coach turned soulful performance mentor, to explore the liminal space between identities, the grief that comes with real growth, and the sacredness of coaching done from the heart.

From walking away from the pool deck…
 ...to navigating heartbreak and reinvention…
 ...to starting over in China guided by intuition…
 

Jesse models what it looks like to sink into the deep end and swim with purpose.

Expect real talk about:
 💔 How the heartbreak of losing a dear friend and coaching mentor became the doorway to transformation
 🏊‍♂️ Why coaching is about being before doing and achieving ... and how he strives to model that for the swimmers he serves
🌏 What moving across the world taught him about humanity
❤️‍🩹 and how grief — especially the kind passed down through the love of his grandmother — shapes how we show up

This one’s for the high achievers learning to trust the inner nudges and sink in to the pause.

It's for the helpers who are ready to be witnessed, too.

And anyone who needs to hear: you’re not alone in the rebuild.

00:00 - Sinking Into Jesse’s Story 
05:52 - When Love and Loss Crack You Open 
13:28 - Rebuilding Without the Resume 
22:34 - Coaching as Medicine, Not Just Metrics 
32:09 - A Soul-led Move to China 
42:18 - Nana, Grief, and What Really Matters 
54:52 - Realigning With Purpose

Want to be supported by Jesse?

Discover more at www.coachjessemoore.com and make sure to follow him on instagram @coachjessemoore

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Transcript

Julie Granger (00:00)

Welcome to Sink and Swim,

podcast that invites you to sink deeply into your

the stories you were born to tell about yourself,

swim and shine unapologetically into your soul's

I'm your host, Julie

this is the space where we celebrate the powerful, raw, and transformative stories of

have discovered that life isn't sink or

It's sink and swim.

These are the people who have gone from paddling furiously to rise, succeed, and stay on top in life,

and their relationships,

to instead sinking into the deepest and most hidden stories of the soul

discovering there the power to rise to even higher heights.

My guest and I will share our untamed, unfiltered truths and

and illuminate how to live in love with more purpose, wholeheartedness, freedom, and

So take a deep breath, settle in,

on your swimsuit, goggles, and

and get ready to sink into the deep end with us.

Julie Granger (00:55)

Hey everybody, welcome to this episode of the Sink and Swim podcast. I am absolutely honored to introduce this next guest to you. I know this guest through my very favorite channel of life, which is The Swimming World. The Swimming World is a huge part of the inspiration for the name and theme of this podcast. And we didn't ever swim together, but I met him through some really special connections where I went to college and where he was coaching at the time. He is...

a former collegiate Division I NCAA swim coach who literally reached the pinnacle of an NCAA Division I swim coaching career, won a national title and decided right after that to walk away from college swimming, to walk away from a dream career and truly listen to a nudge from his intuition that took him into a very meaningful

slightly parallel but different direction. That is incredibly beautiful with what he's doing and I can't wait to share more with you about that. He also really described his emotional intelligence and how he's always been totally aware of who he is, even from a young age growing up, queer, highly self-aware and turning that into fuel for his own confidence, his own daily practice.

of confidence not only as a coach, but also as a mentor for young swimmers everywhere. He also has about a million and a half

university degrees, whether it's college degrees, master's degrees, advanced training. He has been a business mentor for people. He has been a career mentor for people. He is a life coach and he's brought all of that into his swim coaching practice too that has really influenced his leadership style and his ability to really connect on a deep level with his athletes. And he shared some beautiful stories about things that he encountered in college athletes that are just so

heartwarming when you think about how special some of those relationships are. He shared about his journey of globetrotting, traveling all over the world and moving to China for a really unique coaching role at the Chinese Olympic Training Center. And he also shared a beautiful story of turning grief into understanding and losing his Nonna and the emotional transformation that followed from losing someone very special to him.

So without any further ado, it's my pleasure to introduce to you, Jesse Moore.

Julie Granger (03:20)

Hello everyone, welcome to this episode of the Sink and Swim podcast. I am absolutely floored to introduce Jesse Moore. Welcome, Jesse. Okay. Floored.

Jesse Moore (03:31)

Well hello, floored. That is a warm,

a warm and welcoming reception.

Julie Granger (03:37)

Well, every time I

talk to you, it's just very fun in general. So I was like, I feel like the world needs to see this kind of conversation and see what's possible for them.

Jesse Moore (03:44)

Let's tell every

person that I have and will coach what you just said.

Julie Granger (03:50)

Yes. He didn't pay me to say that just so you guys know. Okay, Jesse is currently a swim and life coach, formerly a collegiate division one swim coach at multiple amazing institutions. I was actually looking at your bio last night and I was like, man, that resume is incredible.

Jesse Moore (03:53)

Hahaha

Julie Granger (04:11)

And I mean, you have such an incredible background. I can't wait to dig into it. But other things about you that people may or may not know, you're an entrepreneur, an intuitive leader, a globe trotter currently coming to us from China, and a constant growth seeker, which I love about you, because so am I. And that's just the best thing ever. So welcome. So glad to have you.

Jesse Moore (04:30)

Hello, thank

you so much.

Julie Granger (04:32)

Okay. So this whole former national championship winning coach story is part of the reason that I wanted to invite you on here. Because some people may know, some people may not know that you literally reached the pinnacle of the swimming sport for the most part. I mean, in college sport at least. And it's so incredible.

And then you're like, I'm gonna leave it all and rebuild life on my terms, which that is like the story of Sink and Swim. You chose to sink it when you were at the top, which takes so much courage and like self-awareness and, I knew there had to be a story here. So I was like, I need to hear about this. Some more.

Jesse Moore (05:12)

Oh man.

Yeah, I mean, I was coaching at UC Berkeley and in March of 2023, that's when we won the national championship. And I left my last day at Berkeley was May 31st of 2023. I didn't announce publicly until the first weekend of May, but I knew for a while. So what people didn't know and most people still don't know,

Julie Granger (05:17)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Jesse Moore (05:38)

I actually made the decision to leave college athletics in January of 2023. Yeah, my dream was to be the head coach at Duke and I was on the path for that to happen. like, you know, Dan, our Dan, you know, for those who are listening, Dan passed away in December of 2022. He was a head coach at Duke and a mentor of mine.

Julie Granger (05:46)

my

Yeah.

Jesse Moore (06:03)

as a coach, I coached under him for four years. And I was at his memorial and I was at the the swim meet, the team had a competition that weekend. And I sat there and I was just thinking about like, okay, well, like this is supposed to be the next step, right? Like, I'm going to go take over Duke. And I'm in there. And I was like, I had been thinking for a few years about leaving college swimming. And the person I talked to about that was actually Dan. And he always said, like,

Julie Granger (06:05)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Jesse Moore (06:30)

He always called everybody like, hey brother, hey sister. And he was like, brother, you could do anything. Like you can literally do anything. And he was the first person that like really told me I could do anything. And I kind of had inklings of belief that I could, but I was sitting in that pool in January of 23 and I was like, I don't want this anymore. I came away that weekend knowing.

Julie Granger (06:52)

Yeah.

Jesse Moore (06:55)

clearly that I wanted to leave college athletics. And when we were in Minneapolis, which is where we won the national championship in March, I actually signed my lease in between prelims and finals and moved in, you know,

After I left Berkeley, I moved to Minneapolis. I already had an apartment before I ever even finished the NCAA championship. So I was ready to be done.

Julie Granger (07:11)

Yeah.

gosh. Yeah. You knew you really knew. Yeah.

My gosh. Wow. Okay, so here's what I love about this is you okay, like in the theme of sink and swim, you sank your swim, college swim coaching career at a swim meet at a place that you truly thought was the place for you. Like

Again, so much self-awareness, so much, I mean, that is a hard decision in and of itself. I mean, it might've not felt hard to you. It might've felt very intuitively driven, right? I'm sensing it probably did, yeah?

Jesse Moore (07:51)

A combination, right? there's the, like my dream, my dream is right here, you know? Like there were those internal battles, but it came natural. Like I just knew it and I tend to fall in my gut.

Julie Granger (07:52)

Yes.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, you know,

I guess when I say hard, mean, the mainstream world that's looking from the outside in would think, my gosh, like you have everything you want. You literally, it's right here in front of you. Why would you leave? So tell us like, was the impetus or what was the inspiration to move on to the next thing, whatever that was?

Jesse Moore (08:21)

I am a self-diagnosed workaholic and I didn't have a healthy relationship with coaching college athletics. I was obsessed and like I sacrificed my own health and wellness for success in this industry. And I sacrificed personal relationships, family relationships, like

Julie Granger (08:25)

You

Yeah.

Jesse Moore (08:47)

Like I skipped my own brother's wedding to stay at Junior Nationals so that another team couldn't get a leg up on recruiting over me, you know? And so like that's the level, like very close friends, I skipped their weddings. Like I just, I was not present in my own life because I was so focused on achievement. And I didn't have a healthy relationship and I was

Julie Granger (08:52)

Well.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jesse Moore (09:12)

craving more out of my life. Like I wanted like a personal life and I didn't have one and I wanted to, I was just thinking about things and it really struck me when Dan had passed away because I just thought, okay, let's say hypothetically and then I ended up winning it. But like hypothetically, let's say I win a national championship and I do all these things, right? Like I've helped put people on Olympic teams and I've coached, you know, people all over the world and

If I'm 65 and I retire, if there's no one there with me.

does it matter? You know, like, and so I have that kind of existential crisis of like, if I don't have people I care about witnessing my life, and I'm not witnessing their life, is what's any of this matter anyway?

Julie Granger (09:55)

My gosh. chills, first of all. I'm picturing, like, first of all, like, the poetic side of this came to you, this realization came to you when you were at Dan's Memorial Service and at the place you thought was your next step, where you might have become, like, just poured your workaholic self into Duke swimming, which I would have supported as a Duke swimming alum, but also as someone who...

Jesse Moore (09:56)

I know.

Ha ha!

Julie Granger (10:19)

now very much coaches people to not do that. I would have been like, they're like, dude, you're going to have to tone it down a little bit. There's something so poetic. It's almost like there's this little gift that Dan gave you, like beyond the grave, you know, like whispered it in your ear and in the like Taishoff Aquatic Center when you're sitting there watching this one meet. I also love like this parallel of like you were skipping out on personal

Jesse Moore (10:21)

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Julie Granger (10:45)

like weddings and things like that. And then you're picturing nobody coming to your whatever retirement party, right? Because all of your friends are swimming friends, right? And then they're all like so workaholic that they're gonna skip out on you. a like full circle, like almost seeing the future full circle moment to rewrite your story.

Jesse Moore (11:05)

If I'm being honest, know, spoiler alert, if people haven't watched the season finale of the White Lotus, but I felt like Carrie Coon in that final scene where she was like, you know, we've grown apart, but like, I'm happy to have a seat at the table, you know, and like her life didn't pan out. She put it all into work and then she put it into love and then she put it into being a mother and

Julie Granger (11:20)

Yeah

Jesse Moore (11:26)

none of that worked and fulfilled her. Like it was this extreme example that like actually like struck my heart a little bit the other day and I might've shed some tears while watching this episode. But that's what I felt like her in that moment. you know, like I don't wanna be 65 and not be sitting at anybody's table. You know, I want people to sit at my table too.

Julie Granger (11:36)

Mm-hmm.

It always comes down to a people, right? You hear it, it's so cliche, but it's not what you do. It's who you do it with or who those people are that matters. And I love that that came to fruition for you as a really important life realization. feel like so many people could benefit from hearing that over and over and over again. And it may not land for them today, but maybe they'll remember it and it'll land down the road.

Jesse Moore (12:11)

And the universe is constantly testing me with this because, you know, I left and then I kept getting offers and it was like, that's kind of interesting. that's tempting. I should think about that. And it's like, no, stay out of the trap. This like, it's like your drug, like stay away, get your hand out of the peanut &Ms, you know? And I feel like I'm having another test right now because I just had an offer two days ago, a seven figure offer.

Julie Granger (12:14)

I know. yeah.

your head out of the peanut.

you

Jesse Moore (12:37)

I've never had a seven figure offer before. I have a seven figure offer on the table and I'm like, my God. And I actually think I'm gonna turn it down.

Julie Granger (12:45)

Jesse, we were just talking like a month ago. You were like, you built a million dollar coaching business. And then I was like, and I walked away from it.

Shut it down. Because I was getting it's, I love the peanut butter, peanut M&M's metaphor. It was absolutely, it was so joy driven for me, but it was becoming my drug. That wasn't the only reason there were so many reasons, but that was one reason. And I was like five steps ahead of it becoming the drug and I started to see it. like, that was the slippery slope I was about to go down and I was like, no.

Jesse Moore (12:54)

Yeah.

Mm.

Julie Granger (13:17)

We have been there and done that and rewritten this story already. We're not going back. But you're so right about the universe sending you all sorts of opportunities to put in some reps in the gym, like strengthen that muscle and... So what did you decide to do instead?

Jesse Moore (13:30)

Yeah.

with the decision the last couple of days. yeah. Sign a lease in Minneapolis and all those years that I was coaching, I had racked up some beautiful sky miles and some terrific hotel rewards points, you know, and I'm a lifetime platinum Marriott member proudly and.

Julie Granger (13:34)

What was next? So you signed the lease in Minneapolis and then what happened? Yeah. Sorry, we're going back to that.

Nice.

Jesse Moore (13:56)

So Marriott, Delta and I and their airline partners and whatnot all got very friendly for a while. And, you know, I was living in Minneapolis. I was getting healthy, both physically and mentally. I was meditating almost every day. I lost 60 pounds because again, when you become obsessive on something and you stop taking care of yourself, that was one of the ways that like that, expressed in my, my wellbeing.

And then I went on vacation off and on for nine months, you know, and just traveled and had a blast and hung out with my friends and my family. And, you know, like I flew my mom out to Thailand as part of as part of one of my trips. And we had a cool experience in Thailand together, especially like at the ethical sanctuary for the elephants that we went to in Koh Samui. And, yeah, I just like that's I needed to.

Julie Granger (14:39)

yeah.

Jesse Moore (14:44)

like rest for a bit. had been so adrenalized in my career for so long that I had a lot of trouble like sitting still and I love working out. And so I did that quite a bit. And I started swimming again and was on a master's team and I was doing orange theory and I was lifting and all this stuff. And so I just like poured everything into me. And so I very intentionally for nine months to a year,

Julie Granger (15:05)

Hmm.

Jesse Moore (15:10)

didn't make decisions that like had anything to do with anyone else but me and got healthy, got my mind frame and mindset back to where I wanted it to be. then I chose, I started my business right after I left coaching, but I had it on pause. I just had everything kind of set up. And then I started getting all of that together. And then I started setting up my business and promoting that May 1st of 2024. So I'm not even a full year in.

Julie Granger (15:38)

Yeah. OK. I remember watching all of this through Instagram. I saw the Thailand. Didn't you go to Italy at some point, or was that late last year? OK. Yay.

Jesse Moore (15:46)

Italy was in September. My family is Italian. I speak Italian

and I went to Italy and visited my family there and some of my family from the US went as well. Yeah.

Julie Granger (15:55)

So cool.

And then I remember you announcing your business. So tell us about what you pivoted into in your business. I think that's so cool. But I'll let you tell the story.

Jesse Moore (16:05)

Yeah, so

I am a I have a life coach certification. That was something I started doing while I was coaching. I thought that it's just another way to like up my my ability to be a coach for my athletes, because it's just so much like coaching college athletics is so much more than just coaching swimming. And I really believe that like and that was part of my

Julie Granger (16:18)

Mm-hmm.

100%.

Jesse Moore (16:28)

method, you know, like I wanted to coach people and and help them become the best version of themselves, which leads to them becoming great swimmers. And, you know, in combination with my education and some interests I had in terms of that, you know, I started a coaching business where, you know, and it's still interesting, because I have a little bit of a battle with that with my coaching business. But, you know, I really wanted to start with like,

Julie Granger (16:36)

Yeah.

Jesse Moore (16:51)

high performance corporate coaching. And I wanted, I want to, I still do want to go into the corporate world more. But that was pretty hard to break into. And I do have some clients and whatnot. And that's happening, but that's taking a little bit more effort. But during that whole year, people started reaching out to me.

Julie Granger (16:55)

Yeah.

Jesse Moore (17:08)

like families on Instagram, hey, could you help us with the recruiting process? And I thought, God, I think about all those recruiting services out there and how they price gouge all these families. So it's only affordable for those that want to take on debt or have the capacity to write a large check. And they're really ineffective. Like coaches just delete all that stuff. And so I wanted to create something that was affordable for everybody. And, you know, so like the least expensive package that I offer.

is $99, right? Like, and that's a one time purchase, you know what I mean? And the most expensive package I offer for for the recruiting business is, you know, 2500. So it's $1,500 less than what all these businesses are doing. And so what I'm doing is helping students and their families navigate the college recruiting process, specifically with swimming. And so I, you know, I have an online digital membership with it, which has never been done in this industry and offer, you know,

Julie Granger (17:35)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jesse Moore (18:01)

my services from the perspective of somebody who was coaching on the other side. So yeah, and recruiting and doing all of that. So I'm teaching families and the recruits how to navigate this process, but also like how to then fire me like, like you don't need me to hold your hand, I'm going to teach you and then you're going to walk the path. And so that's like what I've done. And that's been well received. I mean, just in

Julie Granger (18:06)

And recruiting, you did a lot of recruiting, yeah.

Jesse Moore (18:29)

you know, 2025 alone, like the first three months, I've signed 24 clients now. And, and my clients last year that I had signed had all committed to amazing schools. Huge shout out to Duke because my first client and like, feel like Dan was with me on this too, you know, like, I think I messaged you that actually, like, I felt like Dan was part of that. And so, yeah, my first client committed to Duke and I had clients commit to

Julie Granger (18:34)

Mm-hmm.

yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. You did. Yeah.

Jesse Moore (18:56)

you know, Yale, Brown, UC Davis, Pepperdine, great universities like Virginia Tech, you know, it's like, it went really well. And so it's continuing to go and yeah, getting clients and like, it's, it's nice to be able to work where I feel like I'm helping people, which is really important to me, but also to be able to have freedom of choice on how I spend my time.

Julie Granger (19:02)

Mm hmm. Yeah.

so cool because you're still impacting college swimmers and you're still, it's like the ripple effect is still happening. Even, I don't want say more so, it's just less direct, but it's like, it's like you get to make sure they're making the right decision for them, which is only going to benefit them, but it's also going to benefit the team and the team culture and all those types of things. And you have such a wealth of experience being on the other end of it.

Jesse Moore (19:24)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Julie Granger (19:45)

you also were a collegiate athlete, you know, at William & Mary, right? So you've been on all sides of it. And there's just something to be said for that experience and that true know-how in terms of trust and ethics, you know? Like you said, against all the other services, but it's different when you truly have this deeply vested interest.

in somebody thriving, not just them, but the teams and everybody else. And I love that you have such an experience on so many teams, too, that like, and you're such a fan of them. It's like you move on to another team, but I can still tell you like, yay, go team that I used to coach for. And it's like, who doesn't want that type of person in their corner who just wants to see everybody win?

Jesse Moore (20:30)

And I believe, think so many people I think are so insecure about like, they feel like there isn't space for everybody to win. It's like they can win or I can win. And I just really believe that we can win. And I think that that's part of, you know, like I think of coaching as it's a partnership. It's a relationship between the coach and the client or the coach and the slimmer.

and it's a partnership that we're working together. Like we're problem solving together, you know? And like as a college swimming coach, like what's the problem? Well, the problem is how do we get from where you are now to where you wanna be? And I mean that both as like a slimmer in terms of those times and performances, but also as a person that helps like what behaviors have to change to get you from A to B, you know? And I love growth. Like I can tell you,

This is my favorite coaching memory, by the way, and it's with a Duke slimmer named Matthew Johnson, you know, and he was somebody that was unbelievable as a young slimmer before he was recruited. Like at 15, he had an Olympic trials qualifying time as like a freshman in high school. And he was a distance slimmer and had a new club coach take over and his performance, you know, really changed negatively because that

Julie Granger (21:37)

Mm-hmm.

Jesse Moore (21:48)

club coach. It's not like the club coaches fault, but the style of training changed to being very sprint oriented and different than what his body needed. He didn't get very like highly recruited. And I went after him at Duke. I saw that kid swim. I just had this connection with them. I wanted to coach nobody else more than I wanted to coach him. And I just knew we could make something happen together. And I remember his freshman year. It was a slow burn and he just kept getting better and better every meet.

And then we were at the ACC Championship at Georgia Tech and he finished his 500 on the first day and he looks at the clock and you know, some people just like slam the water and get excited and stuff. He looked at the clock, he broke the school record. I'm like on the side, arms are pounding up and down. I'm jumping. That's what I do. I'm a jumper when that stuff happens and I'm like yelling and I just see him.

Julie Granger (22:18)

Mm-hmm.

Jesse Moore (22:38)

get like this adrenaline rush and he like slams the pad a couple times. And then just like this embodiment of joy. And I started like bawling like I was so happy for him and he came over and we hugged and it was like such a cool experience. And, you know, it's like just seeing people celebrate themselves. Like I love that. Like I just I'm addicted to that. Like that is cool.

Julie Granger (22:48)

percent.

Jesse Moore (23:03)

You know?

Julie Granger (23:03)

my gosh, I feel tears welling up in my eyes about that, just picturing it because you're right. It's like, if you can put aside me versus you or my team is better and just be in it with someone, that is one, a huge show of empathy. It just shows how empathetic you are. And two, it's just like that beautiful growth mindset, abundance mentality of there's enough for everyone.

I was thinking about that when I was watching the final four at Duke this past weekend that Duke was in. And in the last minute and a half, was going in Duke's favor. It was going to work out and then it did not work out. And it was stunning. I was at the Washington Duke end with so many other alums and we were all watching it on the big screen on the golf course. And everyone went from like, yeah, we've got this in the bag to like what just happened. And I learned several years ago

Jesse Moore (23:33)

Mm.

I know.

Julie Granger (23:55)

When I was watching, it was another sporting event. was football, college football. My husband's a Georgia Bulldog and we were watching, I think it was a national championship game with Georgia versus Alabama. And I remember thinking, I had a friend at the time who was a teenager who was battling cancer and she was terminal. So it was like, she had a couple more months left to live, swimmer actually. And I remember thinking, you know what? I'm so happy that Alabama won.

and beat Georgia, even though I'm a Georgia fan, because she gets to be happy. And let me think about all of these other players who wanted that so bad on the team that I'm supposedly rooting against, right? And they get to be happy. And how happy can I be for them? Like, that just feels so good. And in that moment, flash forward back to the Final Four this weekend, I remember thinking, well, I'm so happy for all these Houston players who want this so bad. The coach who's never made it.

you know, to or won a national championship. Like how cool is this for them? Who cares? I mean, I can be upset and I can be happy for them. Two things can be true. So just want to commend you on your emotional intelligence there. And I know that's a big part of your strengths and like your development, you love growth. So tell me about how like as a kid, as a teen, as a young swimmer, all of those types of things, how that kind of shaped was shaped or how it developed to where it is now.

Jesse Moore (24:50)

Yeah.

Thanks.

Yeah.

That's going to be a deep conversation. I hope you're ready for that one.

Julie Granger (25:16)

That's what we do

here. That's the Sinking part. We're going to Sink in.

Jesse Moore (25:19)

You know, mean,

I've taken the assessment, so I'm very emotionally intelligent according to the assessments, but I am, I believe that I'm emotionally intelligent and I'm perceptive on how other people are feeling and I've gotten really good at regulating my own emotion. Sometimes I choose not to regulate my own emotion because that has a purpose too, you know.

Julie Granger (25:24)

Uh-huh.

just are. Yeah.

Yep, absolutely.

Jesse Moore (25:40)

But that's, guess that's another form of emotional intelligence as well, right? But I think that I had an unbelievably young epiphany of like my own sexuality. So I identify as a gay man. You know, I can tell you I knew that I was, but I didn't know the word for it when I was like four years old, you know?

Julie Granger (25:44)

You got it.

Mm-hmm.

Jesse Moore (26:04)

And I can tell you the first time I experienced shame, I can tell you the first time that I, I can tell you the first time I discovered the word gay, it was, you know, for, you know, I was like, what five years old at the time. And you know, that is pretty young to watch, like the real world road rules shows on MTV way back then, right? Like, you know, I get that as a parent, but you know, for for Christmas that year, I got a TV in my bedroom. And so

Julie Granger (26:22)

Hahaha!

you

Jesse Moore (26:31)

you know, I'd stay up late sometimes and I'd watch the real world and whatnot, because it was so, you know, juicy, you have to watch all that. And that's when I discovered what the word gay was. Like there was a character in San Francisco, Pedro, and there was a whole like a whole theme to that season. And that's like how I was able to label that for myself. And that's how I was able to learn, this is something I'm not supposed to talk about from like a safety perspective, right. And

Julie Granger (26:40)

No

Jesse Moore (26:58)

I think that that put me sort of like on the defensive a little bit as a young kid. then, you know, whether it was like, quote, feminine tendencies or whatever, you know, I used to get made fun of as a kid, like, what's so funny, because people would call me like, you know, fag or whatever, like, and I was a really good athlete, and I was a really good student. So I'd like kick your butt at everything. You know, that was always humorous to me, but

Yeah, yeah. But at some points in my life as a young kid, people were pretty nasty to me, you know, and like, I think I, I think I had a choice to make. And that was, you know, dim my light. And, and I don't know if I truly actively realized that I that I chose to, like, turn my light on brighter. But I just had this like,

Internal desire.

to outdo or outwork or out achieve everybody because, know, in later years, I realized that's like, that's a coping mechanism for feeling less than right. And, you know, so it's like, I was, you know, battling to be number one in the class when I was graduating high school and I was a state champion and like all of these things in athletics. And, you know, I mean, it got to a point where I was achieving so many things that it was like, like you can't do like,

Julie Granger (27:54)

Yeah.

Jesse Moore (28:11)

whatever you want to say, bring it like, because I'm, better than you, you know. And that mentality changes, I got more mature and emotionally intelligent, you know, and in college, I got really, really, really self aware. But that was my journey of like self awareness. And like, you know what I mean, as a young kid, I had some pivotal moments that were really impactful at a very young age of understanding who I was and, you know, how I was.

Julie Granger (28:13)

You can't get me. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

There's like a, mean, yeah, there are coping mechanisms that were developed from the bullying and teasing and outcasting and all the things. But I feel like there's also this power, like this quiet power that came from that, a quiet confidence, especially the like, come at me, bro. Like I'm gonna toast you on this. So who's making fun of who at this point? but it's like, it's like you didn't have to resort to their game.

Jesse Moore (28:53)

Yeah.

Julie Granger (29:00)

you just quietly led and quietly showed that you're confident and you knew that, you knew this about yourself at four, you know? And sure, developed some coping mechanisms, but also like didn't hide it, you know? It's like, here we are. That's so cool. And you know, down with the people who bullied you, but that's another conversation for another day.

Jesse Moore (29:13)

Mm-hmm.

Well, you know what? I look at that too, think about that. Like here's a mindset frame. That was a different time. Young people are mean because they're terrified. know, like the reality that everybody is scared. Like everyone is scared, you know? And so I'm like, I hold no hard feelings. hold like, I get it. You know, I get it everybody. You're good. We're good.

Julie Granger (29:25)

was a different time.

like you're not making it okay, but at the same time, there's such, again, compassion and like empathy on, you know, it like you do you, I see why you're doing that. It really has nothing to do with me. And we, we, we all have fear. And I love that, like the allness there, like we're all one and we all actually feel this, this is just the way you're choosing to act out with it. So you're only levertical, you know, and

Jesse Moore (29:45)

Yeah.

Yeah, it has nothing to do with me.

Yeah. Yeah.

Julie Granger (30:07)

I'm the subject of that and that sucks, but at the same time, here we are. Yeah, that's, it's so human. I love when we can like, I feel that way about a lot of things that I don't necessarily agree with out in the world. And when you can kind of see it for a scared little kid in a grownup's body or a scared little kid in a kid's body, it, really humanizes it and makes you see that, well, yeah, if I were in that situation and I were scared, I might pull that lever too. I might do the same thing, you know, like,

Jesse Moore (30:09)

Yeah. Totally.

Julie Granger (30:32)

If that was the way I saw the world, that was how I was conditioned or brought up or whatever. And you're right, that was a very different time. And thankfully now, things are changing. I love how it's almost like you've taken that hurt and turned it into fuel and turned it into power and compassion.

Jesse Moore (30:34)

Yeah.

Totally.

and had one naturally like healthy brain chemistry, right? That's a gift. And my mindset was fortunately, I think naturally more predisposed to be a growth mindset. I'm luckier than so many other people that experience any type of bullying or whatever as a young kid because that like a lot of people retreat and

Julie Granger (30:53)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Jesse Moore (31:11)

or hurt themselves even, Like, God forbid that, but, you know, like I, I'm grateful for the health that I was lucky to be born into, you know?

Julie Granger (31:14)

in.

Yeah.

Yeah, totally. I mean, not everyone has the neurological capacity, the psychological capacity, the emotional capacity, the spiritual capacity, and the external support, I would say, right? To be able to turn that hurt into fuel, to be able to develop the drive, to have the growth drive that you do. You know, that's innate, and also you have to develop it. So...

Jesse Moore (31:32)

Mm-hmm.

Julie Granger (31:44)

There is a lot of, I love that you're acknowledging the privilege of that. That's important to do. also like, you can still be grateful for it and be like, yeah, that's awesome. It's just this awesome thing about me. Yeah.

Jesse Moore (31:54)

Hahaha

Julie Granger (31:55)

I'm curious how you mentioned this a little bit, like you want to shape the person and be there for the person, how that really influences your coaching style with people.

Jesse Moore (32:04)

I mean, you know, I've always said this, I'm a better coach for somebody in year two than year one. And I know that's kind of like a well duh statement, but it's true. Like when you get to know somebody and you build a relationship with them, you know, I think that's what's important to recognize. Like in my style, it's really important for me to get to know somebody because if I can connect with them,

Julie Granger (32:23)

Yeah.

Jesse Moore (32:26)

I'm better, I just feel equipped to help them, you know, and there's, there's certainly people that I have not connected with over my, the, the course of my career. And I'm much less effective at coaching them and understanding what they need, you know, and it's not that I'm a bad coach for them, but I'm an average coach for them. Whereas if I get you and you get me and we like have this in sync capacity to work together.

Julie Granger (32:45)

Yeah.

Jesse Moore (32:51)

it's really special what we can achieve. Like I really believe that. I think that's something that is a little harder in the kind of coaching I'm doing now. Like I'm not spending 20 plus hours a week with somebody like I used to. And so getting to know people becomes a little bit more challenging. And so,

Julie Granger (33:09)

Yeah.

Jesse Moore (33:09)

you know, that's probably that that's a relationship capacity that I am missing. And a challenge for my coaching now, you know, but certainly as I like, it's I think it's part of why I'm so direct in my communication. Like I asked very direct questions. I don't I don't mean that I don't sugarcoat things like in a mean way. I'm just like, don't I just here's the information that I need. Like, let's just get this out because time is of the essence. Like

Julie Granger (33:17)

Yeah.

The truth, just the truth. Yeah.

Jesse Moore (33:34)

You know, some of my clients I work with for a total of five hours. Some of my clients I work with for a total of 24 hours when you span that out over different periods. So.

Julie Granger (33:43)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Well, I think it's actually, again, quite emotionally intelligent to simply just tell the truth. Like there is that part where you sense that this might hurt and you can sugarcoat it or kind of, you know, put lipstick on a pig a little bit with it. But I think it's quite emotionally intelligent to know that you're not responsible for their emotions, you know? And when you're coaching someone,

Jesse Moore (33:49)

Yeah.

Julie Granger (34:05)

And in a mentoring relationship, obviously, you're not going to just come out and be abusive, right? But at the same time, the truth is just the truth at the end of the day. And sometimes people need to hear the hard truth and feel the hard things so that they can learn their own emotional regulation. And you get to be that person who's holding the space for that with them. Yeah. Brilliant. Love it. OK, so you're in China.

Jesse Moore (34:09)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yep. Yep.

Julie Granger (34:30)

All right, so you went from nine month vacation and now, and you're building your business and we're just getting the story together. Now you're in China. How'd that come about? That's cool.

Jesse Moore (34:33)

Yeah.

I'm in China. Yeah.

Yeah. So the conversation with China first happened while I was still at Cal. And I, you know, I considered it for a moment, but it was a no. Then it came back and a different conversation. And I was

in a place of yeah, like I'll do this. It was going to be a two month training camp kind of thing. I can go for two months and do that and still run my business remotely, which is what I do anyway. Like I can make this happen. And this would be a fun, interesting experience working abroad like that. And then the the doping scandal happened like with like that coming out in in the world. And, you know, I pulled out of going to China because I didn't that

Julie Granger (35:23)

Yeah.

Jesse Moore (35:29)

training camp would have been during the Olympics. So it was like coaching the next group, if that makes sense, the non Olympic group. And I didn't want to be an American coach in China and, you know, be associated with like a doping scandal. So I had pulled out and then afterward when that new cycle was over, and it ended up not being much of a new cycle.

Julie Granger (35:33)

Okay. Yeah.

Yeah,

right.

Jesse Moore (35:51)

after like a few days, it didn't come back up really during the Olympics, fortunately. but I had agreed to come. And so I came in November. it was supposed to be, you know, for a training camp that went until January. And I had a break to come home in between. So I was like, you know, four week chunk break at home, three week chunk. And in my third week of that first segment, I was here in November.

The director of the training center asked me to stay long term. So I thought about it, we negotiated some things and I stayed. And so I'm here until the Chinese national games are in November. And that's the equivalent of like the Olympic games, but just for China. It's a really big deal for all of their sports. And so I'm here coaching until November 21st and

Julie Granger (36:29)

Mm-hmm.

Jesse Moore (36:35)

And then, yeah, so I'm here in China and I'm living like right now I'm in my my room in the Olympic Training Center here in Wuhan. And, you know, like my facility that I work at is a five minute walk away. The dining hall is across the street. I don't cook anymore. I just walk in and eat yummy food. So yeah.

Julie Granger (36:43)

Nice.

The dream, you know, okay. When you were first talking about earlier in our conversation about like walking away from coaching D1 Collegiate Swimming. And what I pictured was you returning almost to your college student era. Like, okay, I'm gonna go take a nine month sabbatical and travel, like study abroad, but not really study, you know, like, cause you're like, I just need to turn my brain off. It's like.

Jesse Moore (37:19)

Yeah.

Julie Granger (37:20)

Explore yourself, explore the world. That's exactly what you do in college. That's what it's there for. And then you're like going to China, living basically in like a dorm. know, someone's cooking for you in the dining hall. Exploring, like still doing this thing that you're very skilled at and enjoy and all that. While also exploring this like life coaching thing, you know, and building that. yeah, it feels very like your second collegiate.

student era, only now you're a grown-up getting paid for it. Right.

Jesse Moore (37:49)

I'm on a campus, right?

Even better though, I don't have to clean my own dorm room, right? So I've got cleaners, so that's a good thing. Yeah, yep. But yeah, I mean, I go into the dining hall for all my meals and you know, it's interesting because I'm working with, it's a different population. So these are professional paid slumbers. Like they have a salary from the government.

Julie Granger (37:55)

Hmm, nice part. There's a payoff.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jesse Moore (38:13)

you know, like that's their their job. And some of them are pretty young. Like I coach people that are 13 years old that are paid by the government. I coach people that are 30 years old that are paid by the government and and every age in between. And it's a totally different system and totally different ideas on athletics. And it's so here's the hardest but also the most interesting challenge coaching through a translator.

Julie Granger (38:21)

Mm-hmm.

my gosh.

Jesse Moore (38:38)

and the nuance

of language, because the way that I coach, there's some very direct, you know, like, hey, just rotate your arm a little bit this way, blah, blah, anchor the catch. You know what I mean? Like direct communication, that's pretty easy. But I also coach with abstract ideas, you know, like I was just teaching about the water snake and the scales on the water snake and how...

Julie Granger (38:50)

Yeah, right.

Great.

Jesse Moore (39:00)

you have to use your body like the water snake doesn't have arms and legs like swimming has to come from your body. That's your energy center. And you have to like move through the water and each scale, think of it as a light and it has to light up when you're actually activating it and it gets brighter the more you activate and there's this like range of light movement over our body. know, translate that for me. So

Julie Granger (39:07)

Right.

My gosh. That's such a cultural,

like, yeah. I mean, it's like an, what is it, an idiom? Idiom? What's it called? Where, in linguistics, where it's like so specific, like metaphorical in one language, but it doesn't directly translate.

Jesse Moore (39:29)

You're out of my wheelhouse, I don't know.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, I mean, even like, you know, in the United States, we say, like, hey, I'll see you at the swim meet this weekend. Like we're going to a competition, right? I was saying swim meet, and that translates to like a pool party. So people are like pool party, you know? And so it's like, I have to say the competition.

Julie Granger (39:39)

I don't know the word for that. Yeah.

Hahaha

Jesse Moore (39:58)

You know, and it's funny to get the translation back, you know, so we would say an event like the hundred butterfly and it translates from them. They call it the project. So that's a project, right? Yeah. And so there's just these nuances of language that are really interesting and that you have to catch on to be able to effectively communicate. That's been a really because it's kind of like

You know how they say you can learn something, but you really learn it when you can teach it. It's like a whole different challenge to teach in this way through a translator having to like really focus on the language and how you shape the language to be able to be translated. It's like forcing you to be able to just teach a master class all the time.

Julie Granger (40:27)

Yes.

Yeah.

My gosh.

Jesse Moore (40:45)

And it's, I

really enjoy it. It's really challenging.

Julie Granger (40:48)

What a way to keep you on your toes. mean, and I mean, I just think of like the, like you said, the nuance of language, but higher than language, just general human communication. And what is it you're actually trying to say? I'm such a, I am such like a storytelling phile or like

Jesse Moore (40:51)

all the time.

Mm-hmm.

Julie Granger (41:10)

Linguistics language to me is so interesting. Like how can we use words to really convey what's going on in here? You know, what I'm trying to get you to see, feel, touch, taste, all that. And when you add in a language barrier and differences in culture and how we use words and what the words mean and all that, it's like you have to really be thinking in 4D almost.

Jesse Moore (41:35)

Yeah.

Julie Granger (41:35)

What is the actual essence of what I'm trying to get across here? And how can I choose another word for the translator to see if it lands? Interesting.

Jesse Moore (41:37)

Yeah

It is really fun. It is.

Julie Granger (41:45)

So cool. And you love travel. You literally are like a globetrotter. I love that this is like part of your, what we're calling your second college student era. And you have like a group, right? You call them your Tribe you're from college.

Jesse Moore (41:59)

I went to William & Mary and the mascot is the Tribe And so I call them my Tribe. Like I have this core group of friends, like we have a group chat and one of them was on my team was a slimmer, but another was a basketball player. Another was a tennis player or two others were a tennis player. And so we're a group of five and...

Julie Granger (42:00)

a Tribe. Right.

I love it.

Jesse Moore (42:21)

You know, we have a group chat that's pretty active and we all live in a different place. So it's hard to like it to see each other, but it's incredible. And we do.

Julie Granger (42:28)

Yeah, I know that.

Yep. Do y'all get to travel together ever?

Jesse Moore (42:33)

As a whole group, never, we never have. And we even talk, we plan it, but we're at that stage of the five of us, two of us are married with kids. And so it changes the relationship dynamics a bit. My friend, Tiara, is an official for basketball and she does ACC in Big Ten.

Julie Granger (42:38)

That's hard.

Jesse Moore (42:56)

officiating and, and, you know, WNBA and whatnot. And she's on the road a lot, but then I get to see her a lot because, you know, we're in the same areas all the time. Like, so, you know, when she's working, like when I was living in Chicago, or when I was living in Durham or Minneapolis, like she would take games there, and then we would get to stay together and hang out and spend that time together. So it's like fun to get to see people that way, or randomly.

Julie Granger (42:56)

Yeah.

Yeah.

cool.

Yeah.

Jesse Moore (43:21)

My friend Megan, I randomly ran into when I was recruiting. I was at the San Francisco airport and this was when I was at coaching at Duke actually. And I get to see her randomly at the airport. I turn around and she's at baggage claim standing five feet from me, you know, and she had just come back from Wimbledon and was going on a trip to Napa. And so we ended up getting to hang out that week, which was really fun. And then, you know, there's times that we plan together like,

Julie Granger (43:38)

my gosh.

Jesse Moore (43:47)

I was on campus with some of them not long ago.

Julie Granger (43:50)

So cool. I mean, you're totally right about this stage of life where depending on what your job is or what your family dynamic is, it absolutely changes the friendship dynamic. So that's one difference in being in your college student era is all your friends aren't just like down the hall. It's truly, if anyone's in college and listening to this or going into college and listening to this, I can't emphasize enough that that part of your life is so unique. Like where...

Jesse Moore (44:03)

Yep.

Julie Granger (44:13)

You're like, you're everywhere with each other, like your dorms, your dining hall, sports, some of them, you know, it's just so immersed in friendship. And I love that you guys stay in touch. That's just really, really cool. Okay. You mentioned that your family is from, of traveling, you mentioned that your family is from Italy. And I know that there's a story about your grandmother, your Nonna.

Jesse Moore (44:32)

Mm-hmm.

my Nonna.

Julie Granger (44:38)

and your relationship with her and how, like speaking of just meaningful relationships as we're talking about, like tell us about that and what your relationship with her and your loss of her like taught you.

Jesse Moore (44:48)

Yeah, so families from Italy, my Nonna's from her family's from Pisciano in Tuscany. And that's we went to Pisciano to visit the family that still lives there. And, you know, I speak Italian, you know, not well, but decently. And, you know, growing up, my Nonna was the person that was like the frequent babysitter of my brother and I, right? Like she was the grandparent that was usually the one that was babysitting us and

Julie Granger (44:57)

Nice.

Mm-hmm.

Jesse Moore (45:14)

She's very different than me. She worked really, really hard, but she worked hard in a way that was all about family. She was like family focused, like where I sacrificed the relationships in my family with my career earlier. She's the opposite of that. She just would bring the family together. And she and I were really close. She taught me so many things that you don't even realize. I remember getting like,

Julie Granger (45:20)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Jesse Moore (45:37)

you know, blowing a bubble with bubble gum with like the, you know, the big square chunks of bubble gum and getting it in my hair because I blew a bubble this big and then she shows me how to take it out, you know, or just like she took me to bingo as a kid and taught me to play bingo and taught me how to play poker. And she's like a gambling fiend. Like she would go to Atlantic City every Thursday on a bus and gamble and where and her food was amazing. And

Julie Granger (45:42)

huh.

You

This is an Italian grandmother, like sounds classic in so many ways. I love it. Yeah.

Jesse Moore (46:04)

Where we really grew close was I switched legal guardianship from my parents to her so that I could move and train with a different coach and then just be kind of covered from like a health insurance and legality standpoint and all of that stuff. And so talk about a really supportive family of my dreams and endeavors. And so I ended up moving in with her and went to high school, living with her in a different town and

Julie Granger (46:14)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jesse Moore (46:29)

You know, it's like we were a team. My grandfather, my nono had passed away like much younger in my life. And, you know, I would wake up at four something in the morning to go to practice and I'd be out the door before she ever woke up. She was a night owl. She was like midnight to 8am. She slept and I'd be gone before she ever, you know, before she ever woke up. And then

Julie Granger (46:47)

Mm-hmm.

Jesse Moore (46:52)

when I would come home after school and after practice, there'd be a fresh made Italian meal every day. And it was so good. And especially after slim practice, when you're like ready to just eat everything. And I would rush to get my homework done and I would go back downstairs and we would play poker or rummy or whatever for like the next hour every night. And we would just talk and our relationship

Julie Granger (47:03)

Starving. Yes.

Jesse Moore (47:16)

grew so much. And I probably said things in front of her and to her and whatnot about life and whatnot that she was like, mama mia, you know, like she was not expecting to hear some of that stuff, but very open human being here. And she just like, I would call her twice a week when I was in college, like she, she was my person, you know, and I remember, you know, like my brother, for example, started dating somebody and like every, I was just thinking how like everybody was kind of like,

Julie Granger (47:24)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Aww. Mm-hmm.

Jesse Moore (47:42)

paired off or had their person. And my nana and I were like the alone single people. So I sent her, you know, like a big Valentine's Day gift one year and just a note that said like, you know, this person has this like my mom has my dad, my brother has his, you know, girlfriend, whoever, whoever. And I said, I just want you to know that you're my person, you know, and like my teammates used to come over for pizza and dinner that she would make, you know, like, yeah, just like

Julie Granger (48:00)

Noooo

Of course they did. I would be there.

Jesse Moore (48:10)

the

best. And I think what's this is my favorite one of my favorite things about her.

It didn't, it really truly didn't matter if I was number one in my class or a state champion. It's not that she didn't care. She cared. She was so proud, but it was, it, was just like, you knew there was just this automatic eternal love that was just unconditional. you know, like congratulations on winning stage, your state championship. Do you want to have pasta? Like, you know, it was like, okay.

Julie Granger (48:35)

Yeah. Right.

Jesse Moore (48:37)

I said, congrats, so we're done with that. Now, let's hang out and talk and spend time together. And I was coaching at Northwestern and it was January of 2018. she hadn't been doing very well for a couple of weeks and she was in the hospital and she was, I wanted a FaceTime her. So I FaceTimed my dad, he was in there and I sat like we,

she didn't have much she couldn't say much, but she like I could see her reach out to try and grab the phone and to like hug me almost, you know, and I just said like, Nonna, I love you. just want you to know I love you. And she was like, I love you so much, you know, and I didn't know this, but that was the only the only time she spoke that day. And, yeah. And like my dad said, he she wasn't able to get words out otherwise.

Julie Granger (49:10)

No.

Jesse Moore (49:29)

Abby who Abby Steketee was my boss, my head coach at Northwestern. I was the her associate head. And Abby listened to that FaceTime because we shared an office and she I hung up and she said, Jesse, I just I know how you always talk about her. Like, I think you should go home. You know, and I was like, No, I can't we have the senior meet this weekend and you know, all of that again. Right. And she goes, I just

Julie Granger (49:38)

Mm-hmm.

Jesse Moore (49:52)

I'm gonna say this one more time, you make your choice, but if something happened to her, would you be glad you went home or would you want to be here? And I was like, my God. Yeah, and so I said, you're right. I just, didn't even, my dad told me not to come home, everything's fine, but I had this gut feeling. And...

Julie Granger (50:03)

Mic drop.

Jesse Moore (50:12)

I grabbed my backpack, I got in an Uber right to O'Hare to the airport, and I bought a flight while I was in the Uber going to the airport. And, you know, I get, I don't know what happened. I just start sobbing in that, like I knew she was going to die, you know, like I knew it in my soul. And I'm like sobbing, going through security. The security officers were like, are you okay? And I was like, I'm going home for a not good reason, you know, like, and they were like, got it, you know.

Julie Granger (50:17)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Jesse Moore (50:40)

I had no stuff with me. And here's the crazy thing. My aunt, my Nonna's daughter, she's in Utah, and I didn't know she was in the process of flying back. So we landed at the airport at the same time she saw my plane land. She knew I texted her that I was flying home and she texted me that she was already in route. And we ended up landing in the small airport in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

Julie Granger (50:57)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jesse Moore (51:05)

It's two terminals and we ended up landing like side by side and walking out right into each other at the exact same time. Like it was like orchestrated by the higher powers. And we just hugged and it was like, how crazy is that? And my dad and my mom were in the car outside picking us up. And so we went right outside. They were taking us right to the airport and

Julie Granger (51:12)

Mm-hmm.

Jesse Moore (51:28)

we were waiting for an update. So we sit down in the car together, we get the update and they're like, we're putting her like, they're starting morphine, but we're waiting until you guys get there. And she wasn't really like lucid and conscious, couldn't open her eyes, couldn't talk, but I held her hand and I said, Nonna, I love you. And I felt her like, just squeeze it a little bit, you know? And I got to be there for her death. And I'm like, you know, I was crying, but like, not in like a sobbing, ugly way. It was just like,

Julie Granger (51:38)

Mm-hmm.

Jesse Moore (51:54)

I was just thinking over that whole week that I was at home. That's when I.

Like I was so emotionally not burnt, but like impacted by that. And I was trying to understand like other people in my life had died. Why was this so, like I felt like pain. was like, it hurt in my chest. And if I thought about her after that for years, I would cry, you know? But I think I realized that was love. Like that's...

Julie Granger (52:03)

Yes.

Yeah.

Jesse Moore (52:20)

I was like, that grief meant how much I loved her and how cool is that, you know, that I like had that with somebody because I don't think I ever knew what love really felt like, you know, like I didn't know.

Julie Granger (52:24)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

well, I hope everyone who's listening has tissues. Thank you so much for sharing that amazing story of like so many little synchronicities that just helped you get there. I'm so glad you were there and also that you got as much as I hate to say, I'm so glad you felt the pain of grief and look at what it actually gave you.

Jesse Moore (52:37)

hahahaha

Julie Granger (52:56)

the gift of realizing, this is actually what love is. I love the quote, grief is no, sorry, grief is love with nowhere to go. And I've experienced that deep, deep heartache as well. And it's like, sometimes you don't know until you know, or like you don't know what you have until it's gone, very cliche, but it's very like, it's almost like that's a necessary piece of the whole chapter of love to really know, you know.

Jesse Moore (53:03)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Julie Granger (53:22)

that was real. Beautiful. Yes.

Jesse Moore (53:23)

and the intensities of love, because it even

questions, I'm gonna be honest with you. Sometimes I'm like, you you say I love you, because you have to say I love you to certain people, it's the right thing to do. But it's like, you know, deep down, I love you, but I don't like, I don't love you. Like I loved my Nonna, you know? And there's like this intensity difference, this scale of love. And it like, it's like, this is gonna sound terrible. And I don't mean it that way.

Julie Granger (53:31)

Right.

Right. Yeah.

Layers. Yeah.

Jesse Moore (53:48)

my other side of the family, my grandfather, I loved my grandfather. The intensity isn't the same. You know what I mean? Like my relationship with her was deeper and different. Just like I'm sure like a parent to a kid or something would be so much more intense, you know? But yeah, that's the only time in my life I've ever felt the intensity of it. I don't think I've ever felt a more intense emotion in my whole life other than.

in that situation.

Julie Granger (54:15)

Yeah, yeah. And what a gift. And just bringing it back to even as a kid who is very emotionally intelligent and someone who now regulates or doesn't, right? Regulate your emotions. Like what a time to not be like, well, we're gonna need to calm that down and like assuage it and make it better. It's like, no, that's like a full body feeling being in it process because it's just part of like, it's part of the alchemy of love. It's like, you know.

Jesse Moore (54:40)

Yeah.

Julie Granger (54:41)

If you don't give it its space and like if you weren't there, it might've been a little different, right? Probably would've still hurt a lot. But it's like, it's the full circle got to happen. Like it got to work its way through all the way. Wow.

Jesse Moore (54:48)

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

I also

learned to professionally, you I came back to Northwestern after that. I missed the senior meat, which is a big deal, right? Like that's like people's last home competition and it's like a closure of them, right? But you know, like the world didn't end, you know, like the meat still happened. The slimmers weren't upset. They totally understood. You know, I mean, they were texting me when they found out what happened and like.

Julie Granger (55:03)

Yeah, it's a big deal. I cry at that meat every time. Yeah.

Yeah.

Jesse Moore (55:20)

you I felt like I'm missing out and I'm not, it's like, it's okay, you can miss your thing. Like, it's okay, you know? And it's like, it's a, that's another hard lesson that I had to learn too is like,

Julie Granger (55:27)

Yeah.

Jesse Moore (55:30)

By being so quote dedicated or boneheaded about like not being present for things, I'm teaching the people that I'm mentoring as their coach to do the same thing. You know what I mean? Like, and so doesn't that give them me leaving to be there for something important like that? Like that, that gives them permission without having to give permission.

Julie Granger (55:34)

You

Mmm. Yeah.

Yes.

The unspoken permission slips. The true role modeling of what true self honor looks like, self and other honor, family honor, truly honoring your values. For some people, it's not going to be being there for their grandmother. For other people, it will be. But it's more the feeling behind it and not the actual thing that you're modeling.

Jesse Moore (55:55)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Julie Granger (56:15)

Back to like even you saying, I want those people at my retirement party at 65, you're modeling what that actually looks like in action versus just saying that's what you want.

Jesse Moore (56:25)

Mm.

Julie Granger (56:25)

You're putting your money where your mouth is. you're doing, you did it with leaving the D1 coaching job. It's like, you're putting your money where your mouth is. You're actually practicing what you say you value. That's full integrity, right? Versus, well, yeah, I value family and I value myself and self-care and listening to my heart. But I always find it so interesting. And we've all done this, especially a super driven, dedicated,

Jesse Moore (56:25)

You just connected that for me. didn't, I never connected that either. Yeah. Yeah.

Julie Granger (56:52)

people to our careers or whatever it is, you say it and then it's not actually being done in action. And modeling that for young minds, young swimmers, I mean, that makes me so happy to see because I'm always, I don't work with young swimmers anymore, but that's like, that was my baby. And the early part of my career too is to try and be that person for them. wow, beautiful. Amazing. Okay. Well, slight pivot.

Jesse Moore (57:03)

Yeah, yeah.

Hahaha!

Julie Granger (57:17)

I mean, I know that you've got way more that you can offer for people in modeling and being a great mentor for young swimmers, which you'll continue to do in your business and in your coaching work. Tell us what's next. Like, okay, what's coming next? What's coming down the pike? Like, what are your goals for next year? What are you envisioning? What's happening?

Jesse Moore (57:36)

Yeah, you know, I actually really, unlike a lot of people, I actually really enjoy speaking in public. I know there aren't many, people are like, nah, I'll pass on that. And I want to try to help. I don't know what that 100 % looks like yet, right? But I wanna try and help people on a bigger scale. Like, how can I help more people? And...

Julie Granger (57:44)

same.

Yeah, hard test.

you

Jesse Moore (58:02)

I thought about like, what can I offer? And so I've been, I'm still developing whatnot, but topics to speak about that I think I could like really make a difference and really give experience and evidence to. And basically trying to design kind of like a Ted talk and being able to talk and present about that. And...

You know, I think about things like I have education in neuroscience and whatnot that really I find interesting and fascinating and it works into my organizational behavior background and then I've worked with teams that are really high performing in so many capacities and. You know I've thought about this idea of you know being pressure proof. And what.

Julie Granger (58:31)

Yeah.

No.

Jesse Moore (58:45)

you can take from neuroscience and organizational behavior and the experience of coaching all these high level athletes when you're thinking about coaching them as people, right? And not just as a product, an athlete, right? And all of that together, how can you help yourself be pressure proof? Like not avoidant of pressure, pressure exists, right? Like how can you put yourself

Julie Granger (59:03)

Hmm.

Right.

Jesse Moore (59:08)

almost like the analogy of like a pressure cooker, know, like how can you teach yourself to like open the valve to let some of the steam out so that you can like perform your function the best you can. And so that's what I'm working on right now.

Julie Granger (59:20)

Oof.

I would come to that TED talk. That would be amazing. Yeah. You just posted. feel like honestly, anything we talked about today would make a great story to tell too. Just, you've got so many great stories, which is why I wanted to have you here. Cause I knew there were good stories in there and so much to share and stories are the way we connect. And that's, I mean, there's so many places I can just even think of your, the swimmer, the story of the 500 freestyle. Like he could have buckled under pressure.

Jesse Moore (59:23)

I'll let you know.

Hahaha

Julie Granger (59:49)

you know, and he found you helped him find a way not to, which is beautiful. Awesome, awesome. amazing. Well, we have a lightning round, which is very exciting. These are surprise questions that everybody gets and they pretty much don't, well,

Jesse Moore (59:55)

He's the best. He's the best kid ever.

Ha ha ha!

Julie Granger (1:00:08)

you'll probably find a way to make connections, but they don't have anything to do with anything we've talked about yet, which is what I love about them. Okay, number one. If you could be any animal other than a human, what would it be and why?

Jesse Moore (1:00:17)

I think I would pick a lion. like the, you know, if you ever took a DISC assessment, they used to do this association of animals and a lion was a high D And I'm a high D, a very high D. I have a high D, I should say. And my nana, her maiden name was Leoni, which is lion in Italian. And I like...

Julie Granger (1:00:19)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jesse Moore (1:00:39)

Lions are like the leaders of the, the king of the jungle, the leader of the jungle, right? And like that whole metaphor. I like the idea that the symbolism of, you know, power and strength and yeah, so that's why.

Julie Granger (1:00:51)

Amazing. I'm going to start calling you Leon.

Jesse Moore (1:00:53)

Hahaha!

Julie Granger (1:00:54)

Okay, if you could get a drink with two people dead or alive, who are they and what would you say to or ask?

Jesse Moore (1:01:01)

my gosh, rapid fire, but I have to think for a second. Hmm.

Julie Granger (1:01:05)

Can be anyone.

Jesse Moore (1:01:06)

my gosh. Okay, so I don't want to keep like waiting. So I'm going to say

my gosh, this is really hard. I would probably choose somebody really abstract just because I liked it, like how different people think. And I wanna like learn something or understand what their thought processes are. So I might actually say Albert Einstein, right? And then again, I wanna learn and I wanna have a good time while learning. And I think somebody like Michelle Obama would be a...

Julie Granger (1:01:24)

he's... Good one.

Jesse Moore (1:01:35)

or a Viola Davis even, would be a phenomenal dinner companion.

Julie Granger (1:01:37)

Hmm, yeah.

100%. Michelle Obama would be one of my two, I think. She was just on a podcast interview with Kylie Kelce that I listened to and I was like, I've read her books and she's starting a podcast. I'm like, I'm all over that. You're just so intriguing to me. Yeah. And she's so normal. She's just like on earth, which I love.

Jesse Moore (1:01:43)

Yeah.

yeah, I saw the clip.

Yeah.

Cheers.

But she got more normal post White House. And I get it, but I just, I wish people could just, like I have no interest in like the societal norm of like, this is how a politician should be like, we should be very presidential, you know? Like I love Hillary Clinton, like her post.

Julie Granger (1:02:02)

She really did. Yeah, well, that's kind of understandable.

Yeah.

Jesse Moore (1:02:23)

career behavior and like how much more free she is, you know? And I just wish people would just be who they are. Like that's why I think from, yeah, yeah.

Julie Granger (1:02:24)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Lean into that, yeah.

Totally. Well, I think Michelle, from what I hear, I don't know her, from what she says, it seems like she really valued that normalcy even before they were in the White House. Once Barack was elected, she was like, it was very much for her children, making sure they were getting a driver's license and learning how to drive, even though they were being driven by, as she said,

Jesse Moore (1:02:50)

Yeah, that makes sense.

Julie Granger (1:02:56)

men in armored cars with guns, everywhere. Like they bought a car for the girls and they took them out, and taught them how to drive. And I feel like that was such a cool part of her story and still is that she doesn't seem to want to like, she'll show up at big events and all that kind of stuff. Like she leans into that, but she doesn't make that her identity. And that's really cool. I'll be there at that dinner with you with her. So you just let

Jesse Moore (1:03:16)

Yeah, yeah.

Julie Granger (1:03:21)

Let me know when that's happening.

Jesse Moore (1:03:22)

And there will be cheesecake.

Julie Granger (1:03:23)

Perfect. Done. Okay. Speaking of cheese, does pineapple belong on pizza?

Jesse Moore (1:03:28)

No, no, it doesn't. Strong opinion. I love pineapple, but I don't like it. One, it actually does taste gross on pizza to me. And it's not even like because of the Italian background, right? Like I totally understand it's offensive to Italians, but it just, it changes the taste of the pizza. Get off my pizza. Yeah, yeah.

Julie Granger (1:03:30)

said like a true Italian. Yep. I know. I love it.

Hahaha!

Hmm. It does get a little soggy. Like the pineapple juice, feel like does change.

Great. It's such a polarizing question, which is why it's here. Thanks for being so sure of your no. All right. Next question. I'm a fly on the wall on an average Friday night for you. What do I see you doing?

Jesse Moore (1:03:55)

I know.

Well, I'm not that exciting. I go to bed really early, including on Friday and Saturday nights because I go to the earliest class offered at Orange Theory usually. so Friday night, you're going to see me probably making dinner around 5:30 and putting on

Julie Granger (1:04:08)

Me neither.

Nice.

Jesse Moore (1:04:25)

a Netflix show or something like that. And then it like I'll fall asleep on the couch and I'll wake up at, you know, 4:15 in the morning.

Julie Granger (1:04:30)

Nice.

I know you're talking to me at what I guess it's what 5 30 there now am.

Jesse Moore (1:04:36)

5:30 here now, I woke up at 3:30 but that's what I usually do is wake up here at 3:30

Julie Granger (1:04:41)

Wow, impressive. I go to bed early, but I sleep in. I like to sleep a lot. Is there orange theory in China or is that like a when you're in the US thing?

Jesse Moore (1:04:44)

Hmm. Hey.

There's not, unfortunately. So I typically would go five days a week. So I live in the training center so I can work out anytime, you know, and there's an outdoor pool. it's so it's like in the 80s and sunny every day so I can just go out there and,

Julie Granger (1:04:54)

Nice.

okay, good point. Yeah.

Yes. Do you, as a swimmer, do you have a standard for pools? Just side note that you swim and this is not a rapid fire question. Yeah. I feel like outdoor pool is at the top. Outdoor 50 meter pool to me is at the top.

Jesse Moore (1:05:10)

yeah. Totally. Yeah, yeah, totally.

I prefer short course for myself, but the number one thing for me is the water temperature. I need cold water. I don't like warm water. I get so hot. Yeah. Yep.

Julie Granger (1:05:20)

Okay.

Yeah. yeah. Yeah. gross. Yeah. Bathtub. No.

It just feels like, I don't know. It also feels dirty to me. Warm pool water. Yeah. Okay. Back to rapid fire. Last one. What is a hidden pleasure or obsession of yours that people might find surprising, weird, quirky, or questionable?

Jesse Moore (1:05:37)

Yeah.

A hidden pleasure that could be weird or quirky.

Julie Granger (1:05:46)

you

Jesse Moore (1:05:50)

my gosh.

I guess I'm really into skincare. Yeah, I actually had a paid partnership with my favorite skincare line and bioBare is wonderful. Their ingredients are amazing. I have psoriasis, so like ingredients and their impact on my skin are really important to me. I love that company. But yeah, skincare, like I've got, you know.

Julie Granger (1:05:54)

Nice.

Uh-huh.

Yeah.

Jesse Moore (1:06:14)

I go to Seoul and I like load up on stuff and I love to, you I was at a competition with the team a few weeks ago and the night before the competition started, we had a team meeting and then I said, in the US when I've coached, we've always had like traditions of doing like a skincare thing or people get like pedicures or whatever, you know? And so I had brought like all this different like stuff for their face and then a snail face mask.

Julie Granger (1:06:17)

yeah.

Jesse Moore (1:06:38)

like the goopy stuff that you apply to your face and you know, it's like, hey, moisturize. Cause at the end of a swim meet everyone's faces are like, you know, so I was like, let's do like skincare. They all like thought that was hilarious.

Julie Granger (1:06:40)

huh.

my gosh, yep.

I love it.

What a brilliant tradition. Love it. My swim teams never did that, but probably should have because it would have been really fun and also healthy for us. Yeah.

Jesse Moore (1:06:54)

It's a good time.

But you know what?

Mine didn't either when I was swimming, because you and I swam before they really put money into college sports. You know what I mean? Because then, like, when I was coaching at Duke, like that first year, like when we went to NCAAs, we like, we got them massages all the time. We took them for team pedicures, like all that stuff, you know, and that was paid for by our budget.

Julie Granger (1:07:08)

You are correct about that, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. I feel like I need some reconciliation on that. Alumni reconciliation, some back pay. gosh, we could get into a whole conversation about back pay, but that'll be another podcast episode for another day. right. Well, love that. Love these answers. We're going to have pizza without pineapple, do some skincare on a Friday night.

Jesse Moore (1:07:26)

Some back pay.

I know.

Julie Granger (1:07:41)

um have it at 5:30 talking to Michelle Mama and and and well I mean I'm I'm all I'm game for that yes that'll be amazing that'll be the next podcast episode I'll be like sitting next to each other doing all that well Jesse thank you for being here tell us how people can get in touch with you where can we find you what's coming up what do we need to know

Jesse Moore (1:07:44)

and be asleep by a sensible 8.30.

You

Yeah, all my social media handles are the same @coachjessemoore I'm a big Instagram user, so feel free to hit me up on there. My website is also coachjessemoore.com. You can reach out to me through there as well.

Julie Granger (1:08:21)

Yay, I'll put all this in the show notes for on Spotify, Apple, and YouTube so people can just click and go find you. Well, thanks for being here. We'll have to find out what type of globe trotting adventures you get on next and keep everyone updated.

Jesse Moore (1:08:27)

Thank you.

coming. Thank you all so much and thanks for having me.

Julie Granger (1:08:39)

Of course.

Julie Granger (1:08:38)

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