Awakening Your Inner Mystic: Megan Broadhead on Shedding the Boxes and Illuminating the Freedom to Be Fully You

Episode Summary:

In this deeply reflective and heart-opening episode, Julie connects with Megan Broadhead--a therapist, coach, and spiritual midwife who has undergone an extraordinary journey of personal and professional evolution. They explore themes of spiritual initiation, stepping into one's fullest expression, and the beauty of embracing both the human and divine within us.

The conversation is a testament to the transformative power of trusting the process, embracing the liminal space, and leaning into joy. 

This episode is for anyone feeling the call to evolve beyond their current container, step into their power, and embrace the messiness of life as sacred.

Chapters:

• 00:00 – You’re Braver Than You Think (And Already Becoming Who You Are): Megan shares her experience of navigating infertility struggls and life transitions, including her deep connection with her community and the growth she’s witnessed in herself.
• 04:31 – When a Gong Breaks You Open (Spiritual Initiation in a Room Full of Women): Megan takes us through a pivotal identity moment during a women's gathering in 2023, forcing her to question everything she thought she knew about herself.
• 13:04 – Becoming Your Own Safety: Dismantling Transactional Containers: As Megan navigates this awakening, she reflects on how she shifted from external safety to becoming her own source of safety and support, and leaving behind transactional relationships for deeper, more authentic connections.
• 22:44 – Mystic in the Making: When the Clinical Container Starts to Crack: Megan shares her evolution from clinical therapy practice to embracing a more mystical and spiritual approach in her work. She talks about how this shift reflects her growing awareness of the need for spiritual guidance in healing and how she’s blending the two worlds.
• 29:30 – Pedestals, Power Loss, and the Cost of Being Seen: The conversation moves into the impact of pedestal dynamics and how stepping into authenticity often means shedding old identities and relationships that no longer serve. Megan opens up about the grief and the power that comes from letting go of old versions of herself and the people who couldn’t hold space for her growth.
• 40:10 – From Fundamentalism to Full-Spectrum Freedom: Reflecting on her upbringing, Megan describes how she broke free from fundamentalism to embrace a more expansive view of spirituality. She shares how this shaped her understanding of Divine power and personal authenticity.
• 57:41 – The Birthday Party as Portal: Reclaiming Pleasure, Joy & Your People: Megan celebrates how she created a space for women to gather, celebrate, and exchange energy without the constraints of societal expectations. This was a clear embodiment of what it means to live fully and authentically.

Listen now and find the courage to release what's no longer serving you and lean into the fullness of who you are becoming.

Follow Megan on Instagram

If this episode speaks to you, hit subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a friend

Looking for more of where this came from?

Subscribe and watch full video episodes on Youtube

Follow Julie on Instagram @drjuliegranger for clips, bonus content, and updates throughout the week. You can also shoot her a DM to connect!

Get a deeper dive on Sink and Swim topics by joining the email club

Find out more about Julie's coaching programs at her website

Transcript

Julie Granger (00:00)

Welcome everyone to this episode of the Sink and Swim podcast. Okay, y'all, I have such a treat for you today. Megan Broadhead is in the house. She is a therapist, a coach, a channel, a spiritual midwife, and an all around powerhouse of presence and intuition. She is someone who has lived the evolution through religious trauma, infertility, building a thriving clinical practice.

Megan (00:08)

you

Julie Granger (00:27)

And then boldly shifting into a whole new season of spiritual awakening and soulful leadership in her own work, but also in her life. She's the co-creator of Wakefully Yours, a new community space she's curating with her bestie. And it's for people navigating their own awakening journeys. And she's just one of those people who I can attest to this, makes you feel seen and safe and somehow.

braver and more alive just by being in her space. So if you have been feeling like you have been outgrowing old versions of yourself and you don't know what's next, welcome, you're in the right place and welcome Megan, I'm so glad you're here.

Megan (01:04)

my gosh. Thank you. was not prepared for that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you on so many levels. ⁓

Julie Granger (01:07)

Hahaha

you're so welcome. Don't

you love when someone reflects back to you? It's really humbling, but also one of those warm and fuzzy things.

Megan (01:14)

Yes.

Yeah, well,

and it's like a space to receive too, because I do this for people. I'm like, this is who I see, this is who I like that mirror. But yeah, to have a moment to just like receive it is so special. Thank you.

Julie Granger (01:25)

Mm-hmm.

⁓ hmm.

Really, really

special. You're so welcome. So some of you who are listening might know how we are connected. But Megan and I are connected via a beautiful channel from my time living in Atlanta. We met at a conference we were both speaking at for basically wellness for women. What was it? Like six years ago?

Megan (01:55)

Yeah, it's 2019.

Julie Granger (01:57)

2019, I

had just moved out of my house and into a Airstream and started on a journey there. And you were speaking about lots of things, but the thing I really remember was you were speaking to your infertility journey, which we'll dig into a little bit today.

Megan (02:02)

⁓ huh.

Yeah, I remember

you coming up to me. was my oldest son had just turned one. So was like in the throes of balancing me and my work and motherhood. And also the clinical and this like mystical spiritual part of me was coming very, very much alive. And I remember you commenting on that piece. Like you could see that part of me. And I just, I remember it. Yeah.

Julie Granger (02:21)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Megan (02:38)

so clearly.

Julie Granger (02:38)

Yep. I remember watching you

on the stage speaking and being like, ooh, there is some radiant light coming out of her. And I just love it and see it. Yeah. And look at where you've become, which we'll dig into. And we got to catch up IRL in real life ⁓ for the first time since then, somewhat mystically and magically a couple of weeks ago, actually a week ago.

Megan (02:45)

⁓

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

That was a

week, like a week ago. I know. What is time? It was like last. Yeah, it was last week. Isn't that crazy? I know time. What is time? Yeah. Yeah. That was wonderful.

Julie Granger (03:03)

Did I say a couple of weeks? Cause it feels like 10 days ago.

Wow, so much has happened in life since then. All wonderful things.

Yeah, you were in town here in Western North Carolina at a mystical conference and course and training and stepping more into that side of yourself, which I love. And we went for a walk. And I loved just the synchronicities that happened on that just little afternoon between us that were just so magical. It's again, it's like seeing each other's

Megan (03:16)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Julie Granger (03:35)

little lights and reflecting it back, which was really beautiful. And it was being reflected by the turtles in the pond as well.

Megan (03:37)

and then

Yep. Yeah, there were like

15 plus turtles that day. Just sunbathing.

Julie Granger (03:46)

Mm-hmm. Amazing. Well, okay. Speaking of, you have lived the evolution and I just so appreciate it even being with you last week and you sharing parts of the ways you've lived the evolution and giving me the space to do the same. You shared about...

the, what would we want to call it, spiritual initiation from really maybe two years ago. Let's just go there if you're cool with that. And what I love about it is this was such an example from the highest form of integrity. I would say divine integrity, not just rules and laws, but the example of you going first.

Megan (04:05)

Yeah. Yeah.

Totally.

Julie Granger (04:22)

and really modeling for not just your clients, but for everyone what it really takes to step into your fullest expression of yourself. So tell us about that experience. I think you said it was like 2023.

Megan (04:31)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, yes, I would love to. So I'll say that was like the most recent initiation, if we'll call it that. It was July, 2023, and so we're coming up on two years ago now. I had been in a group of women, a part of a group of women here. I'm in Atlanta, and we would meet weekly in this very specific container.

Julie Granger (04:44)

you

Megan (05:00)

for a very specific purpose. we had, it was a beautiful group and they held me so deeply through my whole process of becoming a mother and so many big, big moments in life. And I had this moment one Monday morning in July of 2023, where we were sitting in this circle and the leader would always start the meeting with

some sort of grounding moment. And so today, that day, it was this gong. So she rang the gong. And as the gong was reverberating, I felt something rising in me that I couldn't explain, but felt extremely powerful. And I was aware that my breathing started changing and I started.

feeling tears and I started almost the feeling because I'm a therapist I know I know panic attacks I know anxiety and all these things and I was thinking in the moment this is what's happening to me and having these very physical sensations and we were this is so interesting ⁓ how it was all set up was that there was a new person that day in the group and so we were all to do the thing you do when there is new person and go around and

Julie Granger (05:56)

Right.

Megan (06:14)

introduce yourself, a very normal thing to do in a group of people on a normal day. That is a thing you do. And so my dear friend went and I could tell that this is happening. She, couldn't even hear half of anything of what she said because I was in my own process and it was apparent to the leader. And I went next. was like, I don't, all I could say was my name is Megan. And then I just had this,

Julie Granger (06:17)

you

Megan (06:39)

I won't call it a breakdown because it felt like this total breakthrough of, that is all I can say and I can hardly say my own name. It was a moment of like, that's who I am, but that's not who I am. And I can't, have never, I've never to that, I've never felt that to that extent before in a very normal setting. Like I'll say that I've done a lot of crazy things and fun things and like,

different breath work experiences and meditative experiences and I could access that part of me then who is human and also more the moreness but never in an everyday moment like that something I did weekly and just an introduction. And so we had this whole experiencing around it and the beautiful thing was that I knew that that leader knew what was happening and so I could just make eye contact with her and I knew she could hold.

me, you know, in that moment. But I was never really the same after that. And it was like, who am I? Underneath all of these like titles and layers that other people have put on me that I've put on me, I've accepted. Do I want to accept them anymore? I, you know, I had all of these roles, wife, partner, mother, therapist, friend, like

And it started this sort of cascade of questions for each role of like, do you want this? Do you want this? Do you want, are you actually this? What if you got rid of this container and you were outside of this box? And it was, it was really, really powerful. and it started off this whole, that was, that moment was the initiation or the start of this awakening. And then there were just many experiences after that, that

are honestly continuing two years later that keep this process going. Sort of like it was the question of like, who are you really though underneath? Who are you? Who are you?

Julie Granger (08:26)

Mm-hmm.

What a powerful experience, first of all. Thank you for sharing that because I, as you were saying it, so identify with the sensations and the experience you're describing. I could almost feel it bubbling up within me, this almost mistaken for panic. That's what I think I hear you saying, yeah? I mean, yeah, exactly.

Megan (08:35)

meh.

Yeah.

Yeah. ⁓

yeah, because you're being broken down. It's like you're...

Julie Granger (09:05)

But it's a coming alive. It's

Megan (09:05)

Yes.

Julie Granger (09:07)

an aliveness. I say to clients sometimes anxiety is sometimes divinity with nowhere to go. It's like trying to get out, right? And I love that you first of all held that space for yourself and also didn't force it. Like didn't force yourself to...

Megan (09:13)

Yeah, yeah. ⁓

Julie Granger (09:22)

Just follow the rules and label yourself and conform to the expectation of this everyday introduction.

Megan (09:24)

No.

Yeah.

Yeah, was like, Julie was like, there wasn't even an option. It was so forceful. I tell you because normally like it was part of my story before that I could like, usually pull it together and set my stuff aside. And it was such a gift that it almost didn't even feel like an option. It's like something was overtaking me and, you know, was really interesting. And this was something that I had to process later was like the

Julie Granger (09:36)

around.

Megan (09:56)

new person never came back to the group. That was like, you know, it's another thing. It's like another, I'm telling you, was like layer and layer and layer. It's like then it's like, am I allowed to be that big? You know, am I allowed to be so unfiltered?

Julie Granger (10:11)

Can you imagine if we all sat around in a circle of women, and you might have experienced this since then, and I've experienced it, but if that was just a regular occurrence where we all had the bubbling up of the aliveness, whatever we want to label it as or call it, again, there's no actual word for it, ⁓ and just held the space for each other with that? I just felt like...

Megan (10:27)

Yeah.

Can you hear me?

Right, right, right. We used to do

that. Like, we used to do that, you know?

Julie Granger (10:42)

But what if it weren't in a therapy context or like even a coaching circle or all these things that we create, but it was just like, this is just what we do, you know?

Megan (10:47)

Mm-hmm.

So that was the start of that for me though. I love that you said that because what ended up, know, there were so many things that happened, especially in the six months that followed this. But one of them was that I started leaving spaces and places that didn't, that felt like there was more of a contractual, like you do this and I do this. And we, and like this sort of clean, like this is the way we are.

And so I did, I eventually ended up leaving that group. And what happened was exactly what you're talking about. I was met with women who could meet, who could be with me and whatever, and then I could be with them and whatever. And we could experience this like elevating of each other's energy and just by being with each other without this like contractual obligation or...

exchange like it was it so cool to like experience it outside of this therapy container. And it's just continued since then, you know, it's like what happened with us last last week, you know, it's like that was just out in the wild, literally. Yeah.

Julie Granger (11:50)

Wow.

Literally, I was so grateful for it too. I was so grateful that you were like, I

don't know, like this last minute, she just messaged me on Instagram like the day before or something. I was like, hey, I don't know if you're even free. It's a holiday weekend. You want to come? And I was like, actually, yes, I do. Let's do it. Okay. Contractual transactional exchange. So interestingly, in July of 2023, I was going through my own awakening specifically around...

Megan (12:07)

Yeah.

Yeah. huh. Yeah. Yep.

Julie Granger (12:23)

I'm still as you like, like you just said, I'm still working on this, especially around women in my own work with women, but also like friendships, relationships, identities, all of that. And I love how you named it because first of all, that just gave some words around something that I haven't wrapped around. But I think that that same thing has happened as I've let go of those. Here's our.

unconscious contract between each other, this exchange that is very transactional. It has to be equally yoked. You give to me, I give to you. It just becomes this... It's so hard to wrap words around, but the only thing I can say is somatically it feels like there's just this... I read this in a book last night. It's like there's fireflies dancing in my veins.

Megan (12:56)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Julie Granger (13:16)

there's no rules.

It's a little hard to come off of, like not in a bad way, but it's like I'm really alive afterward and I need to either discharge it or ground it or do something with that energy because it's almost too big for my little human vessel. yeah.

Megan (13:20)

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, totally.

Here's how I've come to see it because I am still a licensed therapist working in this field and loving, I love that work. And so there is, I have come to appreciate the contract, like the agreement in some ways. And I think there's a level of at certain points we need

Julie Granger (13:38)

Mm-hmm.

Megan (13:53)

safety and we need to know like this is what you're gonna do and this is what I'm gonna do and I'm gonna show up at this time for this amount of time and I'm gonna pay you this and then in exchange I'm gonna get this hopefully and there's a safety that that is necessary especially like at a certain point in in healing and then what I think has happened for me is like I become my own safety

Julie Granger (14:15)

Mm.

Megan (14:16)

And, you know, that's my ultimate hope for everybody I work with or come into contact with is that, like, that happens, that they become their own safety. And so maybe we need the containers less, or maybe they just look different or, but that's kind of, that's how I've come to see it because I couldn't, I was struggling to make sense of this too, and still do daily. We've talked about this too, just in with the work that we do.

I think there's a need for, sometimes there is a need for the container. And then, and then it's really important intuitive work to know when you got it. You know, like you got you.

Julie Granger (14:52)

⁓

I had a mentor who I still work with who said something about rules and boundaries are important, but they're like a substitute for your own. I can't remember her exact words, but it was so beautiful. It's like they're a substitute for your own or maybe even scaffolding for your own like soul and spiritual wisdom about yourself. And I love this sort of idea of, especially as if we're just talking about relationships with women, but this applies to all.

Megan (15:12)

Yeah.

Julie Granger (15:19)

relationships and the human existence and all our living existence. It's like you can only heal relationships by being in relationship. And it might be crazy, right? Can't just like go sit on a mountain top and heal my relationships. ⁓

Megan (15:23)

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Yep. Although

I wish that's how it works sometimes.

Julie Granger (15:36)

It's so much easier. I could control

everyone with my mind. But it's like, sometimes that does need to happen in a scaffolded, modeled, therapeutic, coaching, built container. Because it is that which helps pave those, not just body neural pathways, but also brings up those parts of your soul that remember what

Megan (15:41)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah.

Julie Granger (16:00)

a healthy, delicious soulful relationship is. And then, yeah, you have to kind of like go out on your own into the world and practice and apply it. And that's where the real, I think, transformation occurs, where you can do it in the container. Great. Good job. Now what? That's why it continues to be a process for us out here in the wild, like you said.

Megan (16:06)

This is, this is.

Mm-hmm.

Yep, yep, yep.

Totally. yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I love that we're talking about this because it's not either or, it's both and. It's like we actually need both, you know? And we both have like sacred containers still that hold us, that just, you know, that allow us to go off into the wild and yeah, and do this. And then allow us to offer it to other people.

Julie Granger (16:45)

I know.

I think that that's the key for me is I feel like being able to hold a sacred container for someone else. It's not that I'm required to be in a sacred container myself, but it's almost this desire. It's like a guardrail coming from like, I am the container. I'm the one who's like, wait, wait, what's going to help me show up in the most? I have this, I'll actually show you it. made my old friend made me this. You're a portal of divine love.

Megan (16:59)

Yeah.

⁓ I love that.

Julie Granger (17:12)

It just sits in

front of me when I do my work. But what's going to help me?

I'm like hesitant to use the words highest self, right? But that implies, right, a ranking system. But what's going to keep me grounded in that? And sometimes having my own little containers of safety and support are what helped me stay focused on also being able to offer that to someone else. It's like this chain of love in a way and redirecting towards your divine higher self,

Megan (17:19)

Mm-hmm.

Yes, yeah, yeah.

Yep. Yep.

Yeah, I've heard it, the term conscious self like used in exchange for that too. Yeah, just that self which is the most, who is the most conscious, the most alive, the most awake, most wise. ⁓

Julie Granger (17:44)

haunches self. Yeah. Mm hmm.

Hmm.

Most wise.

Most wise. We both, when we met in real life a week ago, we were talking about this and sort of the whole just cracking open and all kinds of things. And we mentioned the book. I think I mentioned it to you. was like, have you read this book? And you were like, my God, it's like in my Kindle or whatever it is, my Audible. I've been thinking about reading it.

Megan (18:01)

Thank

Julie Granger (18:17)

For those listening, we were talking about the book Mary Magdalene revealed, and we're going to talk about Megan's religious upbringing and that. But what I love about it, and there's this line in the book. I don't remember if I sent you a screenshot of this particular line. I think I sent it to my mentor, Amanda. But to what we're saying about this conscious self or higher self or whatever, it's like coming out of the binary of it. And the line and the concept she writes about is, are 100 % divine.

Megan (18:21)

Mm-hmm.

Julie Granger (18:44)

and 100 % human, which cracked something open for me hearing it phrased that way, because you're not 50-50. There's not an either or. It's truly the full both and. so it's like, and they're not separate. It's like, it's really like a 200%, not a, you whatever, but it's not mathematical. Yes, yes, exactly. It's not mathematical. It's not this fragmented identity.

Megan (18:44)

Yeah.

Right.

Right, right, there's an abundance. Yeah, yeah.

Julie Granger (19:09)

And I think that having either the self soul written container or contract or the external someone else is helping to create that in relationship is what helps us maybe stay in touch with the beauty of both the 100 % human and 100 % divine.

Megan (19:31)

Yeah,

yes, yes. And I love that because it's not about you becoming anything or maintaining this balance. It's like you already are. You are 100 % divine and you're 100 % human. There isn't this striving. You're not set up to strive to maintain this 50-50 or... I love that.

Julie Granger (19:56)

or to only be divine, to only be in your spiritual side, to, I think, which invites so much spiritual bypassing and gaslighting yourself and making, pathologizing your humanists.

Megan (19:57)

Right.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah,

I think we all choose. We choose things in our life, we choose opportunities to to to sit with dance with this, the duality of all of this. It's like, you know, I am I love love love the work that I do and get to sit and hold space for people groups and in and also I'm a mom of

three kids under six and I still change diapers and clean up messes and attend to tantrums. it's like this very human within like, you know, even as I'm saying it, I'm almost like, I'm reinforcing the separateness. It's like the divine is in the tantrums and also in the depth of the moments I have with clients. You know, it's like,

Julie Granger (20:42)

Thank

Yes.

Megan (20:59)

Gosh, all of it is just this invitation to embrace the wholeness of who we are. It's really wild. But I resist. Sometimes when I resist it, I'm like, God, just put me on top of that mountain. I don't want to be doing this right now. It's when I forget that it's actually not separate. Yeah, it actually is all both at the same time.

Julie Granger (21:06)

love it.

name. ⁓

And

sometimes we need to both go be the monk on the mountaintop and have those moments of just, I think it's like, you it's not just dissociation. It's like, sometimes I need to go get in touch with that 100 % side of me over there that just feels separate or feels like it's, I'm not cloaked in it at the moment. And I just need, need some immersion. Yeah.

Megan (21:22)

Yeah, yep.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, I can remember. Like, because when you're, yeah,

when you're on top of the mountain, then you then you can connect to and remember. I mean, you can at any point, but it's just like a little easier you're there to do it. Yeah.

Julie Granger (21:50)

⁓ Well again, it says guardrails. It's creating

the guardrails for when you need to remember.

Megan (21:57)

Yeah, I have a

client who calls it monk mode, which I love. It's like, think I'm to go into monk mode. It means something. Yeah, it means exactly what we're talking about.

Julie Granger (22:00)

I'm out.

Well, and I think that millennia of spiritual traditions have monk mode in their own way. Like, you know, people observe the Sabbath or they go to church or they get down on their knees and pray three times a day, whatever it is, you know, and that I think has some real weight to it. It's not just a ritual that we do. A lot of people do it blindly, you know, but I think that there's something to be said for that.

Megan (22:20)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Julie Granger (22:34)

container in and of itself.

Megan (22:35)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that sacred remembering. Mm-hmm.

Julie Granger (22:39)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Because the human side will draw our memory away. That's human. That's what humans are required to do. Speaking of the human side, okay, I think this is a good segue. All right, so you've helped thousands of people through your therapy practice over the last 10 years. And so pre-2023, you told me, I think when we were at the park, something started to shift during COVID.

Megan (22:44)

Yeah, yeah, yep.

you

Julie Granger (23:04)

and now you're stepping into something less boxed, less clinical, more spiritual, more intuitive. So tell us about that evolution.

Megan (23:12)

Yeah, so I, I'll say this, I sort of fell, I fell into, well, I both fell into this work as a licensed therapist. And it is a deep, deep calling. So it feels like both. There was always a part of me that didn't resonate 100 % with the clinical approach.

like diagnoses and seeing some of the things that I see through the lens of there is something that needs to be fixed here or medicated or which all of those are extremely helpful. But it was interesting. It's interesting to go back and see like, oh, there was always this piece of me who felt like more of a mystic than a clinician.

Julie Granger (23:42)

Yeah.

Megan (23:58)

Um, and so, yeah, I, I did the thing where I graduated and I like hit the ground running and I went and started practicing as a, as a therapist, pre-licensed therapist. And then as soon as I could, started my private practice under direction. And then as soon as I was fully licensed, I was hiring people and building this, um, clinical therapy practice. And, um, it was wonderful. It, it.

gave me so much, taught me many lessons about leadership and freedom too, like freedom in a lot of ways at that point, like there was financial freedom, there was freedom to live and work the way I wanted to, I was able to take sabbaticals, was able to, you know, there was freedom.

at various points in what I was doing until there wasn't anymore. And that was around the time of COVID. A lot of us found a lot of freedom in how we worked and where we worked. I know you did, traveling around. And so yeah, so that kind of opened the door for me to understand or even question what else is possible here.

⁓ and so in some ways it naturally happened and in some ways I had to make some decisions to downsize, ⁓ the practice, but that isn't, that is what happened and why rebranded and, we went from a very clinical name to now it is, ⁓ the practice is called the wonder Haven. And it really became this like Haven for wondering exactly what it, what it, what it sounds like. And yeah, it felt more and more aligned and it's,

And so it became this, it became a different container. It evolved as I did. And now I'm at a place where I so value the work of therapy and also there's just this constant nudging of like, and don't forget you're a mystic and don't forget.

You really love the woo, you really love the magic, you really feel deeply in your bones. That's the direction you're going to support people in their awakening in a way, you I can do it well clinically. And, you know, there are other ways too. So it's, yeah, it's been this cool evolution, would say.

And that's the thing is like, get to do that. If we, if we give ourselves permission, we get to do that. Does it mean that there isn't and there wasn't pushback? There definitely was, but in some ways, you know, that's also helpful too. And clarifying it's like, okay, you can come along or not. you, and there's no hard feelings either. It's like, yeah, I think, I think our expansion, also gives others permission to expand.

if they want to or not.

Julie Granger (26:42)

Okay, that last line, before we came online, we were talking about the wonder that there's your word. For me, that happened during a session, I'd been offering one-off sessions with a woman that I've been having like one-off calls with here and there just along the way. And she actually asked, she was like, hey, can you share your story of moving towards freedom and being brave and all of that kind of thing? And as I was sharing the story,

Megan (26:48)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Julie Granger (27:09)

It wasn't to like, be like me. It was very much the underlying lesson was here's permission for you to take this, take what's for you from this, and illuminate your own path to freedom. My business is called Illuminate Freedom. whatever that looks like. And you could just see these light bulbs going off for her. That's not why I told her the story. It was just very much like she asked, and there was wonder, and there was divinity in that.

Megan (27:12)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Julie Granger (27:34)

And I love that part about really allowing yourself to step into that. Back to what I said when we started this little segment, it's like you go first. And there's nothing more rooted in integrity or credential than that. It's so out of the box, yet it's helping people step. You stepping out of the box is what helps them step out of their box.

Megan (27:43)

Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

and there were people who went before me who stepped out of the box that I got to witness. And so maybe it's just this ever evolving, ever flowing stepping out that happens. it can be, I've been seeing a lot of like the imagery of like a ripple, like this ripple effect lately. And I think that's what it is. It's like me coming here, I'm so excited to come here and talk to you because

I can tell my stories and then I can release like, I can release any, anything that's attached to that. It's like, can trust the ripple effect. I can trust that something may land with someone in a way that they, they need or, or not. Someone might have a reaction to something in a way that they need, you know, it's like, it's such a beautiful thing. Yeah.

Julie Granger (28:44)

Exactly.

It might feel confronting. It might feel, they might not like it. Yeah, you know? And that too is a gift. know, when viewed the right way, obviously. But you don't have any control over how people take your story for better or for worse. And that's such a beautiful piece of freedom.

Megan (28:47)

Yeah. Triggering. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yes, yeah.

Totally. that has been a piece of the last few years where people very near and dear to me have been really confronted by what I've done or said, or people in my own family. And it's heartbreaking. It's like, when they're your people. And then you realize, wait, but they can't hold all of me. There's a whole shedding, grieving process with that.

Julie Granger (29:17)

Yep. Yep.

Megan (29:28)

massively,

Julie Granger (29:30)

Massive, massive.

That's actually the crux of is I've been stepping out of my own boxes, plural, of coming up with my own just underlying message and branding. it comes down to, yes, identifying who you are. Yes, identifying your divine purpose. But those two things can't be fully lived and expressed without people.

Megan (29:37)

So here, we have.

Julie Granger (29:54)

coming back to our discussion on relationship. And healing doesn't just happen in our own little silos where I come up with my divine identity and purpose. It also has to happen in relationship. And it may be that there is shedding of people or relationships that no longer serve. And there is so much grieving, like you said.

Megan (29:55)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Julie Granger (30:15)

It may be that those relationships have fences that need mending. It may be that there is an opportunity for transformation in them. It may be that there's new relationships that can form. Yeah.

Megan (30:23)

Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

Yeah. For me, there were some specific like family relationships that needed like it needed to break down and you know, it was almost 40 years of one way and it needed it like I was I could see after the fact that I was like on this almost on this pedestal and then I fell and God that's painful when that happens, you know? Yeah.

Julie Granger (30:34)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Totally. Yep.

Megan (30:49)

And it really needed to all around, like they needed to not have me on that pedestal. And I also needed to experience the fall and to experience them and how they handled it. all around, all around it was beautiful and illuminating, you know? And yeah, and painful.

Julie Granger (31:07)

Amen to that. And painful. All

of the things.

Megan (31:12)

Yeah,

yeah. And I see it now. I mean, you know, we're talking about our work, we're talking about being licensed therapists, all these things, but like, and also so much more. And I see it now, the more I step out and the more I am vocal, even in my little community on social media or in my emails or in different places. Yeah, you notice the energetic shifting of people that

you know, I've interacted with for years and years. And the release of that is also really powerful. It's like the cost of not showing up authentically is so great to me. And so, yeah, it's all of it.

Julie Granger (31:41)

It is.

I couldn't say it better, honestly. And I feel like there's this piece that I work on this with clients, but I think it's a part of my own story, obviously, as well, which is as you are releasing that and stepping into that really authentic power. And I feel like there's this kissing frogs era you have to go through as some relationships are breaking down.

Megan (31:53)

Thank

Julie Granger (32:17)

Some of them are getting redefined. Some of them are being let go altogether. And then there are new relationships being established. And it's specifically in that new relationship column, so to speak, where you're breaking down the old version of you, right? And like you said, the cost of being inauthentic is so great. And you're trying on or really sinking into the most divine authentic version of you. And when you're in that new column,

Megan (32:23)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Julie Granger (32:41)

finding your new realm of people or discovering that they've been there all along, whatever it is, sometimes it just falls into place. Like your friend messages you and you're like, hey, let's go to this park. And you're like, yeah, this, yep, she gets it. We're here. Everything's safe here. And sometimes it's like a wolf in sheep's clothing where someone is like, they seem like they've, you know, and it can feel maybe like a repeat of the wound in a way, of the breakdown.

Megan (32:46)

Yeah.

Yeah. ⁓

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Julie Granger (33:10)

And

what I've learned for me at least, and I don't know you can relate to this, is like, OK, you kissed a frog. And you just collapse the timeline from recognizing it's a frog to backing out and getting back on the right train track, so to speak. Yeah.

Megan (33:20)

Yes. Yes. Yep. Yep.

Yeah, there's like a deep checking in that can happen in a matter of just moments too. It's like, wait a minute, how does this feel? How does this person feel to me? This situation? Does it feel like a yes? Does it feel like a no? Do they feel safe, unsafe? Yeah, it can happen in a moment.

Julie Granger (33:26)

Mm-hmm. Right.

Yeah.

Megan (33:38)

Yeah.

Julie Granger (33:39)

I just want to really name and honor your transition out of the clinical box and how you've also named an honor that it's not this linear, all right? Because you're still practicing as a therapist and yet you know that there's this mystical side of you and you recognized that long ago and it's been this sort of sinuous journey to step more and more into that.

version of you and that identity of you and that there are people who come along and there's pushback. And it's not just in your professional world.

Megan (34:09)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right, right. It's, ⁓ yeah, it's personal. all, it happens. It happens in all the ways. But again, I just kind of go back to, like, I also can point to so many people in my life and all the different places who lead the way, who are a few steps ahead. I know we're using, I know we don't like that language of like ahead or whatever, but.

Julie Granger (34:10)

because there's only one you. Yeah.

Mm.

Megan (34:34)

But I don't mean it in this linear hierarchical way, but who are a few steps ahead of me? And that is really beautiful too. I think I'm in a place right now where with a lot of things, with my work, with my role as a mother, my role as a partner, I'm like looking at all of these beautiful containers and I'm like,

Julie Granger (34:40)

Mm-hmm.

Megan (35:00)

What needs to stay and what wants to go? Where do I need to create more spaciousness here? In the therapy world, there are a lot of beautiful examples of therapists who do this mystical work right alongside the clinical. And is there space for me in that container? In the container of motherhood, it's like,

Julie Granger (35:04)

Mm-hmm.

Megan (35:25)

how do I balance who I am and wanting to be present and the best way I can with my kids and also honor this part of me that feels like it's just bursting out of me. This work, this vibrance, this desire to support people in their own awakening. Like, how do I hold both? And is there something about the way that motherhood is structured for me right now that isn't supporting both?

⁓ Is there something that can be tweaked? there something? And then the same with partnership, you know, I've been, I've been with my husband for almost two decades now. We were super young when we got married. And so it's a lot of life to go through together. And, you know, at various points, big points along the way, there is this like checking in around like, yeah, how are we holding all of this? How are, you know, is this container?

Julie Granger (35:52)

Yeah.

Megan (36:16)

being encouraging of your expansion and mine. And if not, what do need to do?

Julie Granger (36:21)

Well, I love this. Okay, we've bent back into the discussion on the container and how there's so much agency I'm feeling in the question of, well, is it the container? That's the problem. Is it how I'm seeing the container? Is there maybe not a ⁓ breadth that we can, like, I can't expand any further within this container. Is there a depth though? Can I maybe go deeper within it?

Megan (36:25)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Julie Granger (36:47)

I'm thinking specifically of like the therapy container just as an example that's like, can I bring in this mystical? Is there a track for taking the mystical and like going deeper or like staying within the confines of it, but like up or down instead of wide? Same with marriage. And it comes back to what you said earlier to me that was like, you become the container. You become the definer of the container. You kind of set your own.

Megan (36:57)

Hmm?

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Okay.

Julie Granger (37:10)

I use this metaphor all the time, fence around the dog park. And maybe we need a new fence altogether. We need a whole new dog park. Or I need to build my own container. Like maybe someday you're not in therapy at all. And you're like, yeah, I can't. Nope. Everything's too expansive. Even going deeper doesn't work. Or maybe, yeah, you can keep the container and just make it yours.

Megan (37:13)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep.

Yeah. I was just talking to someone today about how, how, you know, when, when you're outgrowing the container. ⁓ and it was such an interesting conversation. And part of what I realized is like a telltale sign for me. And I'm curious what it is, what the signs are for you too, is that I get, I get irritable. there's this like, ⁓ I just get like this, this low level, like.

Julie Granger (37:48)

I knew you

Megan (37:54)

like feeling and it's just like, it's just sort of constant and I know like, something's not working anymore. Like I'm getting, I'm too big. Like, and I mean that in a way of like, yeah, sometimes we're just too expansive for wherever we are, you know? And that's bad thing that's not, and it's not even like a boastful thing. It's like a real reality. It's a real reality.

Yeah, so I get irritable. just get antsy, you know? And so, yeah, I'm curious. I'm curious how you know.

Julie Granger (38:27)

I was going to say resentment. So yeah, same family of immersion. I've said this for years. I just remember the first time I recognized that resentment means that a boundary has either been crossed or it's trying to be breached or it's too tight or too loose or something like that. the container itself is no longer fitting to my desires and my needs. And yeah, that's it. And what you're describing is what I call the conformity corset.

Megan (38:28)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I love that.

I love that.

Julie Granger (38:52)

That's like,

I mean, the corset itself is a billion things that contribute to it, whether it's conditioning, whether it's expectations, whether it's beliefs, whether it's training, credentials, rules, regulations, laws, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,

Megan (39:03)

Here it is. Here it is.

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Julie Granger (39:09)

maybe for a time that was right for you because you needed that belonging and you needed that relationship to help you move a couple of spaces along the Candyland track, so to speak, like on the game board. And then it's not kind of back to what you said. like, it's not that you became anything. You actually just discovered who you were. It's like you didn't necessarily outgrow it, although that's the language we use. It's like you were always too expansive for it.

Megan (39:19)

Yeah. Yep.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yep. Yeah.

Julie Granger (39:35)

and you finally

tuned into the irritation because you finally tuned in enough to who you really were and what your real purpose is and who your people are to need to break out of that corset. But then you had to create it, you have to create a new one, right? A new container because we still need.

Megan (39:45)

Yeah. Yep. Yep.

Yep, yep. Now you're making me think about my whole upbringing in evangelical, know, fundamentalist Christianity. Okay, good. Yeah, yeah, good. Yeah, yeah, talk about a corset, you know, it's, and I can look back now and like you're like what you're saying. Maybe it's who you, this is who you've always been. I can.

Julie Granger (39:56)

Yes! That's where I wanted to go next anyway. Yes.

Megan (40:10)

look back at moments and I'm like, yes, this is who I always was. I was always this expansive. I was always this much of a questioner. I was always looking for the way of love, you know. And, and, you know, now I can, I can see those experiences as, as like really valuable teachers, like they didn't, you know, honestly, what I what I really believe is like,

Julie Granger (40:22)

Yes.

Megan (40:35)

a lot of people probably didn't know what to do with me then, you know? And I can have actually a ton of empathy and compassion for them now because sometimes I don't know what to do with me, you know? It's like this like real experience. Yeah, yeah. But I just, don't think they knew. And so I'll say, I'll preface everything with that. It's like, I really do believe that everybody, well, most people.

Julie Granger (40:37)

Hmm. Right.

Cheers to that. Yes. Right.

Megan (41:01)

are trying the best with what they have and that everything is here to teach us even really painful experiences. So, but yeah, I grew up in environments that were really restrictive and the biggest way was definitely this picture of who God was and is and who, and then also in relationship to that, like who I was.

Julie Granger (41:03)

Mm-hmm.

Megan (41:22)

And they were, they felt, felt, I didn't know this and had this language at the time, but it felt really disempowering. You know, that's an understatement. Like, and now I'm so attuned to anything that makes me feel like I can't or that I'm not enough or then I'm, you know, everything goes off and all the alarms sound because of this experience, you know? I, yeah, I went to really,

Julie Granger (41:29)

us.

Megan (41:47)

fundamentalist Baptist schools growing up. And I was taught to evangelize and, you know, give everybody force, force upon everybody what I, what I believed or what was given to me, that I had the way and that there was just one way. And it was this very specific interpretation of Christianity and

Julie Granger (41:52)

Mm-hmm.

Megan (42:13)

⁓ and of Jesus and all these things. And so, you know, it's really interesting because it's, even raising kids right now myself, it's like we do need some kind of structure and some kind of container. And, you know, I, my hope is in how I'm parenting and, I think also for little me, what I wish I had gotten was that that stuff was filtered through.

you're also really amazing on your own and you are divine in and of yourself. these are beautiful stories and powerful images of what's possible and what you can then go and do. know, ⁓ that piece was kind of missing. So I, but I've found it now. So there's a lot of beauty in that being found, but.

Julie Granger (42:52)

Yes!

Megan (43:00)

I, man, I was really in it for a long, long time. And I did everything. I did everything I can remember being a kid filled with, talk about anxiety, filled with so much anxiety about the potential that I would go to hell. And so I remember every night, like getting on my knees in my room and praying over and over and over again. the, what we had was like the salvation prayer, making sure, just making like,

in an obsessive way and that is a lot of what it became for me was this kind of OCD behavior. And just a ton of fear, like so much fear. So now whenever I tune into something and there's a whole lot of fear, I'm like, okay, pause, that's not it. Like that's not my understanding of God or the divine now. It's actually love. It's not fear, it's love. And so...

Julie Granger (43:44)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Megan (43:53)

Oh, it's thing to work through though. It wasn't until I went to college and really started to, I grew up in Wisconsin and then went all the way to Nashville, Tennessee for school and really got to be on my own and by myself and little inseparate from that world. And that was a huge gift that honestly, I feel like I gave to myself and that my parents gave to me that I could.

that I could go. know, there's so much like beauty in all of it. Looking at it now. ⁓

Julie Granger (44:25)

Nobody

had any idea what it would turn into, you know, and.

Megan (44:28)

No, maybe they wouldn't let

me go if they did, but maybe they would, you know, I don't know. ⁓ a hundred percent. There was no, yeah.

Julie Granger (44:34)

Well, we're here now. I feel like it would have found its way to you one way or another. And that's just one of the portals that one of the levers

that the cosmic, cosmic taxi driver helped you pull.

Megan (44:44)

Yeah.

Oh, totally. I had so many

moments along the way that are like those little moments, know, those where I remember, because I still in college, like wrestling with, I could still do this, right? Like this is a container I can still maintain, you know? Maybe I just need to figure out if I can fit or be myself in it. And there was a moment where I was attending this church and I went to like this.

this is what you do. went to the new member meeting to see if he wanted to join the church. And there was a meeting with the pastor who was, of course, this middle-aged white man. And we were all sitting in a circle. I remember asking, I studied religion in college. I remember asking, so can women in this church, can women teach? Can women lead? Can women, like, don't see any women here. But is that a thing that can happen? And he looked at me and he said,

I guess if you wanted to lead, if a woman wanted to lead a men's Bible study, we just have never had that happen. And like very much threw back at me in a way trying, I believe, like trying to put me in my place. And like, well, we've never had a woman want to lead a man's Bible study before. So I didn't ever answer the question, you know? And so of course I left, but it was like, there were so many little...

little but not little moments like that where it was like, here's some clarity, here's some clarity, here you're getting steered out of this direction and into another. You don't know what it is yet, but like it's not that anymore. And that was painful. Like who I was then was like, you're humiliating me in front of this group of people. And I was asking this earnest question and now I'm so thankful for it. I'm like, thank you. You showed me what I didn't want, you know?

Julie Granger (46:08)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

okay. Sorry, finish. Go ahead.

Megan (46:30)

It's like,

no, there were so many moments like that, so many where it's like, this is not it. And I don't know what is it yet, but it's very powerful to know that this isn't it. And the stepping away.

Julie Granger (46:43)

Hmm. Yep.

Megan (46:46)

Yeah.

Julie Granger (46:46)

So attuned. I think part of that like...

you were so attuned with yourself to go away to college, right? Whether you realized why. No, it's like that was the divine 100 % of you, like working its magic through your human mind and heart and all the things that we might label as negative or bad or wrong or unspiritual or oppressive on and on and on with those things that.

Megan (46:58)

Yeah.

Julie Granger (47:16)

you're recognizing them as, not that. I don't know what is, but there's this doorway there. There's this sort of like, I'm going to close that door. Not quite sure what doorway I'm walking through next. I'm going to be in this little messy middle for a bit, but I at least am starting to remove that little string of the corset, so to speak. Untie that one. Unbind this part. ⁓

Megan (47:35)

Yeah, yeah. And

that's those moments are really powerful. Like for me in my life has felt like this constant. I almost want to label them as like small moments or small knowings. They don't feel small in the moment, but there isn't necessarily like a massive traumatic event or for some of us like

That is how it is. just, it's this rhythm of like, no, not that, no, not that. And I guess what I'm realizing is those no, not that moments are, are very powerful and clarifying. And like you're saying, like that space in between, between the no and the full body, like, yes, it's this, it's this. That liminal space is uncomfortable, but

but very powerful. I mean, that's that's the like surrendering place too.

Julie Granger (48:25)

That's the holy space, feel like. The holiest space. ⁓ I'm curious about just coming back to, especially for so many women who are out of tune with their bodies, their soul-driven sensations, emotional sensations, all the things. How did it, we talked about the irritation and I labeled it as, what did I, I wouldn't even say resentment. ⁓

Megan (48:27)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Resentment, yeah.

Julie Granger (48:50)

Either way, anger, like family, right? How did that, if you can at least feel it, label it, whatever, how does that feel? Or like, where do you feel that?

Megan (48:52)

Yeah.

I feel it right here. Like in between my throat and my heart. ⁓ So I talk about this a lot with people like, like, and now I can, the amazing thing is like, if we practice anything, and if we practice sitting with ourselves and tuning in, like, you know, we can, we can get to ourselves quickly. We were just saying before this, like,

Julie Granger (49:03)

Yep.

Megan (49:20)

you know, you can get a lot accomplished in one 75 minute session. It's because, because like in the right circumstances with the right like practice, you can just so quickly tune in. So anyways, I feel it between, yeah, in a space between my heart and my throat. And I think that's perfect too, because it's like, there's something my heart space is sensing and there's something that's needing to be communicated. And so it lives in that liminal space right between. Yeah.

Julie Granger (49:45)

Yes.

Yep, I

100 % resonate every time. It's like the low, not the like super choker that lives around your upper neck, but it's like right at the collarbones almost like. And sometimes like bringing it back to your original sensation, sometimes for me, and I know it's a different experience for every person, there's that. And when I tune into it, I get that sensation of tears, almost like you said from your first, that women's circle.

Megan (49:50)

Yeah.

huh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Julie Granger (50:14)

And it's like what happens when I finally tune into it and allow it and maybe even just give it a gentle embrace. It comes up and out. Again, it's like that divinity with nowhere to go. And it's given the option to just be whether voiced or brought out through tears or whatever thoughts.

Megan (50:24)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And I think there's a real invitation to ask ourselves when we're feeling the discomfort right there, like, what am I ultimately afraid of? Because for me, it also is directly connected to fear. And that's a lot of my experience, my past, I go, I go right to fear because, because it was everywhere, you know? And so,

Julie Granger (50:45)

Yeah.

Megan (50:56)

And so I get really honest with myself and I'm like, you know, a lot of times lately it's like, I'm afraid if, I really am this, if I really, I'm going to blow my life up, I'm going to, this isn't going to exist anymore, or it's all going to be different, or I'm not going to be loved or accepted, or I'm not going to, and like, there's a real opportunity to, to tune into, what am I actually afraid of here? What am I, and then like you're saying to hold yourself in it.

Julie Granger (51:21)

Yeah.

Megan (51:25)

is so powerful. Yeah, I'll just like, yeah, or be held. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it can be such a simple like breath, like breathing, like deep breathing, hand on the heart, and really going with like whatever visual is coming. I'll do that a lot. Like I'll just close my eyes, take some deep breaths, put my hand in my heart, and see if there's a visual that comes.

Julie Granger (51:26)

or behold. ⁓

Megan (51:47)

Yeah.

Julie Granger (51:47)

beautiful. Yeah, what is it we're afraid of? What it what we're really afraid of? I read somewhere. This is more like kind of the science side of it, although it's very soulful, as well, that the bond of belonging, we'll call it love, attachment, attunement, our people is stronger than the bond to yourself for authenticity.

Megan (51:51)

Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Julie Granger (52:09)

And so like you said, what if I become this, then I'll lose this person or be mine is like a fear of being all alone. Nobody gets me. think a verbal as it is, I'm all alone. Something's happening and no one's coming. ⁓ This really deep, deep, deep, deep fear. I'm going to be left, right, abandoned.

Megan (52:14)

Mm-hmm.

yeah.

Like I'm gonna be left in it, abandoned, yeah.

Julie Granger (52:31)

And maybe there's some trauma there to heal and look at, but it's also just, again, that 100 % human. And it feels very divine in that we are meant to be in relationship as divine human beings. And when that is ruptured, like when there's this, don't have that connection energetically with someone or whatever, then part of the divinity is ruptured. And then, of course, part of the human need is ruptured too.

Megan (52:37)

Yeah. Yep.

Mm-hmm. ⁓

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Julie Granger (52:59)

Moment of silence for that.

Megan (52:59)

It's, I know.

What was just coming to me is like a whole nother can of worms. like, well, what if we are actually never separate too? Like even in the rupture, cause I've had many of these and even in our initial conversations before this one. Yeah. It's like, you know, even the ruptures and relationships that I've had and there've been significant ones in the last decade, you know, yeah.

Julie Granger (53:23)

same.

Megan (53:24)

looking back now, it's like, yeah, what if we actually aren't as separate as we think, even in those moments, it's, it's, it's a call to something more to a different kind of relationship to something else.

Julie Granger (53:39)

I was telling one of my mentors, I'll mention her name again, Amanda, shout out to Amanda, that, I don't know, it was maybe like seven or eight years ago, I was several years into my own little healing journey. And I got to like that deep place and I had sunk in it and I was like sitting in a little seance of shame, we'll call it, sort of like holding this really sacred space with the parts of me that felt shame.

Megan (53:43)

Mm-hmm.

Julie Granger (54:01)

And I remember just having this moment being like, you know, feeling like I don't belong and I'm not worthy and I'm not loved and there's no one for me and no one's coming and all these things and going, but you know what? I wouldn't feel any of these things if I wasn't inherently worthy. If there wasn't a deeper knowing that I'm inherently worthy, that I inherently belong, that I inherently already have all my people, even if I can't see them. If, and so I love that. It feels like it's tying into your point of, wait, yes, I feel this thing.

Megan (54:17)

Yeah. Yeah.

Julie Granger (54:26)

And this is like a necessary little experience to be reminded that the very thing I'm fearing or believe is not there is actually always there.

Megan (54:38)

Yeah, yes. It's like the image of the yin and the yang, right? It's like the both and, the light and the dark, or even going back to my own experience with a version of religion, it's like, if I hadn't felt complete disempowerment, I wouldn't know what empowerment felt like. And then that feels like my life's work is empowerment. It's like...

Julie Granger (54:56)

Yes.

Megan (55:03)

let's figure out how bright you can shine, you know? And so I had to have the other experiences, you know? And so in some ways, they're two sides of the same coin, though. Like they're not separate.

Julie Granger (55:06)

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah. You can't know this one without the sync. Can't fully know this one without the full sync. Yeah.

Megan (55:19)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,

I think about that with motherhood all the time. It's like, there's there's such a balance of being so completely in the moment, whatever the moment is, and then the awareness of time passing. And I couldn't be present, I couldn't be as present as I love to be in certain moments. If I didn't, if I wasn't aware that like,

time is passing, you know, and like sometime this moment where my six year old's asking me to snuggle every single night, endlessly, like that wouldn't feel so powerful and potent if it was lasting forever. Like I have to be aware of that there's an end point to this. I have to be aware of like another reality where he's not asking me to snuggle in order for me to really be able to drop into, ⁓ my gosh, how amazing is this moment? It's both. It's like the absence of that.

like almost allows me to be even more and more present with it.

Julie Granger (56:12)

You can't know true power without knowing powerlessness to time, to relationship, to your label, your box or not in the box or whatever it is. Like you have to go through the, what is it in the book? The Mary Magdalene books, like you have to go through that. There's so many spiritual disciplines, the seven layers, right? The seven, all the things, climates, the seven doors, the seven.

Megan (56:15)

Yeah.

Yeah.

I know. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Julie Granger (56:36)

You have to experience that in order to fully experience the divinity of it, of the other side, you know? And you don't have to, obviously, but it's advisable.

Megan (56:40)

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, and I think go back to what I've adopted as a personal belief now is that like on some level I chose all of these experiences. so there is meaning, there is meaning, like there are some teachings that my soul has needed to have. And even if they are painful, the painful ones, know, but also

Julie Granger (57:05)

Yes. Yes.

Megan (57:12)

especially the joyful ones, like that was another piece of this whole waking up that it's like joy and pleasure got a seat at the table. Thank God, like they needed to have a seat there. Yeah, yeah. It's like everything on some level, I, you know, I have agreed my highest self, my conscious self agreed to these experiences and yeah, now.

Julie Granger (57:17)

Yes.

Literally, thank God. Yeah.

Megan (57:34)

pain and trauma are some, and also like joy and pleasure can be some.

Julie Granger (57:41)

Talk

about going from a fear-based, fundamentalist religion where God is only a punisher to, God also brings pleasure and eroticism and ecstasy and joy. ⁓ And Jesus modeled that questionably, although there's lots of opinions about that, right? And there's such divinity in that, and you don't have to earn it. It's yours.

Megan (57:47)

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Right.

Right, right. It's

part of that 100 % human. It's like, yeah, that's part of it too. Maybe we come here for the full experiencing of it. The pleasure too.

Julie Granger (58:08)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

you

Well, you can't know pain without pleasure. It goes the other way too. Like we're saying, you can't really know the pleasure without the pain, but then it's like, but if you don't know what you're losing, then it's not painful.

Megan (58:19)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Julie Granger (58:30)

And that's, mean, gosh, that's it's all whole can of worms around people who've never experienced goodness and they just normalize pain as this is just life, you know, this is just how it is.

Megan (58:37)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I

mean, those are the people and places and relationships I've had the most struggle with, I think, in the last two years, and who have also had the most struggle with me, and understandably so, I get it. Like, if I'm out here, for the most part, like, loving my life, it'd be really hard to see and witness. Yeah, yeah, like, I threw myself a birthday party last month, and we...

Julie Granger (58:58)

very confronting.

Megan (59:05)

It just came to me as an idea that felt so seamless and effortless. And I was like, yeah, this is what I need to do and want to do. This would be so fun. I had a bunch of women over and we had a dinner and I told them to dress up and wear, I think I said something colorful. It's something that made them feel really good. And also like bonus if there were sparkles involved. And so everyone showed up. Yeah. And I had them bring a bundle of flowers, like a bouquet of flowers.

Julie Granger (59:09)

Mm.

I love this so much, Megan.

Megan (59:33)

didn't tell them what it was going to be for. And so it was so amazing. I couldn't hug them enough as each person came through my door to see like what they chose to wear, the story they had behind it, the flowers they brought. It was it was so incredible. Just that was just the first part. And then we had good music and we had this dinner and we had a ritual and every woman went home with

with a bouquet of flowers that was assembled from the flowers that everybody brought. And so there were gifts that they got to bring. It was incredible. And like that level of celebration and presence, I am just so glad I can now show up for myself that way. And I know that doesn't sit well with everybody. And that is also so okay, you know, because the experience of that was hearing them say the things kind of similarly to how we started this.

this podcast, like hearing myself reflected back was like, you know, one of the biggest, best birthday gifts. And then being able to do the same, you know, it was like this circle of women that we're talking about that was, it was a free container, you know.

Julie Granger (1:00:36)

Wow.

Yeah. Wow. Speaking of synchronicities and you going first and giving people permission to do that, I needed to hear that today. I have been saying for months, years, that I just want to have a really sacred dress up.

Megan (1:00:51)

Mm-hmm.

Julie Granger (1:01:03)

in something that makes you feel fabulous party for the sake of doing it because it would be so fun for me. And I can even feel it like, this is vulnerable to share. ⁓ had like, and it's a joy vulnerability. It's exactly what you said at the very beginning. Like my legs are tingling and everything. But having had some ruptures.

Megan (1:01:06)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

I know.

Mm-hmm.

Julie Granger (1:01:24)

in friendships and then COVID happened and we were all isolated and then we moved to a new town and I'm meeting new people and kissing some frogs here and there. And recognizing that not everyone, even new people, are in a place to roll with my joy and aliveness. And I talked about this with my mentor just a couple months back being like, okay, I want to do that. Almost what you described is almost exactly what I envisioned.

Megan (1:01:32)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Julie Granger (1:01:49)

Almost like word for word. I'm over here like, whoa.

Megan (1:01:51)

Oh my gosh. Isn't that cool? Cause I didn't

plan on, I mean, I didn't really plan on sharing any of this stuff. I'm just I'm just flowing with it. But that's so cool how that happens. Yeah.

Julie Granger (1:01:56)

Well,

even when you posted it on Instagram, I was like, I want to be there. Like, I wish I were in Atlanta. I'm going to invite myself. But I paused on it. One, a very soulful not yet ⁓ was what I felt was like, yes, but not yet, which felt correct. That was definitely like, idea, wrong timing.

Megan (1:02:03)

I would have loved that. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Julie Granger (1:02:22)

I keep saying I need to interface with the models of it in a way. Like you said, people have walked the path or sort of whatever before you and to almost recognize in relationship the safety of that type of thing. ⁓ So anyway, thank you for sharing that. And to the audience, if you've also been craving that type of event and you happen to live in...

Megan (1:02:36)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ yeah, of course.

Julie Granger (1:02:46)

Western North Carolina, let me know, because I'm going to throw it at some point when it feels correct.

Megan (1:02:47)

Yeah, totally.

Yeah, sometimes the thing is we forget that we get to curate the life that we want. And I know that there, I want to say too, that there is a definite level of privilege and inerrant and where I am situated and who I am. That goes without saying, but I want to say it.

Julie Granger (1:03:03)

Yes.

It's important to name. Yeah.

Megan (1:03:12)

Yeah,

yeah, and also, we get we get to like, have choice in any situation. And yeah, this was a powerful one where I was like, it felt like it was calling to me to happen. And yeah, and so so much of what I know now is just listening to those nudges. Like we were saying before, from that liminal space where it's not yet revealed. ⁓

how this is going to turn out or it could have been a total flop or it could have been, but, listening to the nudges, I almost feel like I'm at a point now where I, it's harder and harder to ignore them. Or if I try to, it's like they get stronger and stronger and you know, have lots of stories around that too, where I haven't listened and it's like, no, no, we're going to just keep nudging you until it turns into a full blown push.

Julie Granger (1:03:58)

until

the brick is thrown at your face and you have no choice. It does happen. You don't know true power until you felt powerlessness, as you said. ⁓ Okay. Speaking of communities, this is not a hard right turn, but I feel like it's a really nice segue from that. And by the way, thank you for holding this space for me and sharing that. ⁓

Megan (1:04:00)

Yeah. Yeah.

And yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yes.

Yeah. yeah.

Julie Granger (1:04:18)

Okay, speaking of those spaces where it just is and you're fully in your aliveness and whether it's sistering, shepherding, walking alongside.

Tell me about this container that you're curating with your friend, wakefully yours, and where it's going, what it is.

Megan (1:04:37)

Yes, so in 2023, one of the biggest gifts that came out of, there were so, so, so many, was this friendship that I have with ⁓ Amber is her name. She's also a therapist and also a mystic and also so many other things. But her and I, we've always been friends. We can't quite even...

pin down like when we actually met or it sort of feels like, know, she's one of those people that just always kind of been in and out of my life. Yeah, yeah, we appeared on each other on the scene, like at the perfect most transformative time for both of us. So it's like, our souls are like, yep, we're gonna, we're gonna do this, this now. You're gonna, and so we, ⁓ yeah, over the last few years have just been.

Julie Granger (1:05:06)

Yeah, she appeared on the scene, you know?

Yeah.

Megan (1:05:25)

walking each other's path with each other and realizing that we've we have I'll use the word like expanded we've used it a bunch today but like we've expanded at rates together like just being in each other's energy similar to like how this feels that we could not have done on our own like there's just no question there's there's the yin yang piece of it there are so many similarities but there's so much marrying that has happened

comfortable and uncomfortable with this friendship. But it feels like we've each been able to sort of skyrocket into the place that we each are now. And we can't really imagine doing that without each other. And so that's a little bit of the background of the power of our.

of our friendship. so we started talking and both of us have communities just individually, just being, being therapists and in practice for a long time and kind of build up these communities. And so we both have those in different ways, but we thought about we talking like, well, there's so many people that we're seeing around us and our practices and beyond who are waking up to more, waking up to more within them.

within the world around them. Like they're seeing their lives in full color. And sometimes it's so incredibly scary and almost paralyzing. And sometimes it's rejuvenating and exhilarating. And sometimes it's all of it in the same moment. And sometimes you can feel completely paralyzed. And sometimes you can feel like you wanting to run 100 miles per hour. You're so excited. Like they're in such a...

spectrum of experiencing in this this waking up this this awakening process and so we decided that we wanted to create a space or you know like Facilitate or hold space for for people in that in that kind of a place and so that's really what it is it's We are launching this month and

It's going to be, we're starting out super, super simple. We, we're going to do Monday morning meetings, which are going to be about 30 minutes and they're going to be live and recorded. And we're not, we have a, we have a, you we have, we do have like a curriculum and a structure and all those really important things about what we want to happen in cover and all that. And also, it's just going to be a free flowing intuitive space to, see, to see what happens and who comes.

and who needs to meet each other and who needs a space where the magic can unfold. Because this is happening rapidly for a lot of people right now, this waking up. And it feels like such important work. So yeah, it's going to be Monday morning meetings. And there will be an online, like an app container, community board, that kind of thing.

and we'll post the nuggets and writings and things like that. But super simple, but we're really excited about it.

Julie Granger (1:08:05)

⁓

Well, as you said, it's sometimes those small or simple moments or doorways that create the most profound awakening for people or profound invitation or opening. And it doesn't have to be this huge, big, sexy, as the world would define it. I think the small things are very sexy. But you know what I mean? It seems like you're doing that. The way you're curating this or

Megan (1:08:16)

Yeah.

Yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Julie Granger (1:08:35)

uncurating the curated container in a way. It's like, well, it's truly living in the philosophy that you've already walked and experienced yourself. Trusting that it's so un-therapy, right? It's like you're trusting that these people have the power and divinity within them and maybe they just need a little like, hey, this door is over here or like, let me just shine the flashlight on this one little thing here and take from that what you will.

Megan (1:08:36)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes, yes, yes.

Julie Granger (1:09:02)

And I trust that the God within you is going to help you figure out what that means for you.

Megan (1:09:08)

Totally. Yeah,

we started to, this is a huge teaching for both Amber and I, like the piece around like, we don't actually have to do this ourselves. Like we're both super independent. Like, I want to do things my way and it's probably better for me not to have a partner or anything because like, yeah. So it's even just the energy of joining each other and like letting each other support that.

Julie Granger (1:09:18)

Amen.

I hear you.

Megan (1:09:33)

very powerful in and of itself, but we started to realize like, whatever we would do, it would some, it would, would feel magical no matter what it was. So whether it was like, we're both super woo woo and love, love everything. So whether it's like a full moon ceremony in her front yard, where it was so funny, this happened a few weeks ago, we were sitting out there and we didn't have anything planned, but we just knew we wanted to be out there with the moon. And we started looking around and she was on the-

a semi-busy street and so there were cars passing. It was like 10 o'clock at night, but there's still cars passing. There's a high school across the street. So there's like these annex buildings. There's all these telephone lines and then it was trash day the next day. So there was like trash bins everywhere. And we were like, this is so, this is so the point. This is so everything is like even in the midst of all of this stuff that is so not sexy and so not.

we can create magic wherever we go, just by the energetic connection, just by showing up. It was a moment that felt so abundant, not because of the picturesque background or the website or the branding or any of this stuff. It's just like, we can show up as ourselves. And as long as we're receptive and open, the magic is going to happen, you know? And so

Julie Granger (1:10:44)

Mm-hmm.

Megan (1:10:50)

Yeah, it was one of those moments, it feels like what we're talking about where it's like, yeah, doesn't have to be all the things. In fact, I think a lot of people are kind of over that anyways. I'm curated. I am.

Julie Granger (1:11:00)

The sacredness reveals itself and it also

can be found among a pile of garbage cans on your street.

Megan (1:11:07)

Yeah

garbage cans, traffic, and yeah.

Julie Granger (1:11:12)

It also speaks to authenticity of being authentic versus performing authenticity of it doesn't have to look like this perfect picturesque meadow or the monk on the mountaintop. Although those are wonderful things, like we said, tapping into those from time to time. And you can also love those things and find the divinity in them, right? It's like,

Megan (1:11:22)

Write it. Write it. Yeah.

Oh, I love them. Oh yeah. I'm a

tourist. Like, I love luxurious. Love a beautiful setting. Love, yeah. It's like not either or. It's both.

Julie Granger (1:11:39)

It's all and, you know, it's the allness of it. It's all divine. And sometimes I like the phrase allness versus oneness because one, it's like almost feels reductive. this, it's like the big bang. Like it all comes into this like one versus like all expansive, but either way it's all connected. Yeah.

Megan (1:11:41)

Yeah, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

I like that. I like

that.

Julie Granger (1:11:58)

⁓ I am so excited to hear how this container goes for you. I wanted to say a while back when you were talking about shifting into Wonder Haven from more of a clinical practice. remember, I think I was just an Insta friend at that point, just following and like, yay, like your post. I just remember seeing you shift into that. just remember the moment, speaking of small moments, and being like, yes.

Megan (1:12:15)

Yeah.

Yeah. ⁓ that's so sweet. Yeah.

Julie Granger (1:12:22)

Yes.

From that moment when I saw you on the stage and I was like, she's got something there. She's got something there. But what's interesting is I'm seeing the mirror of my own journey too. I'm seeing it and it's the medicine I need too. ⁓

Megan (1:12:28)

You did and you told me then it was so powerful.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Cause you gave a, you gave a talk on hormones that day. Great.

Julie Granger (1:12:45)

Yes, I did, didn't I? At

the same time, knowing that, it's not really just hormones. There's so much more underneath this. It is unseen and invisible. And that's where I was, you know, in that from clinical to not clinical journey. And I'm still on it. And I think that like,

Megan (1:12:51)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Julie Granger (1:13:04)

I love seeing maybe one of my favorite things in the world is to see someone living out their true authentic divine purpose and surrounded in relationship and being, you know, and it's like I want to be the hype girl for that because I want that, you know, it's also my value. so it's just been really fun to witness your evolution.

Megan (1:13:19)

Yeah. Yeah. ⁓

Thank you. Thank you. Same like back at you. think one of those moments for me was seeing you go to all the Taylor Swift concerts in Paris. And I was so jealous. also like, yes. Yeah, it was like one of the, could tell you were being your most like expansive self. Like that, that brought, that experience brought it out. And it was so, yeah, it was cool. Like the energy of that came through on your posts.

Julie Granger (1:13:26)

Nirenvar. Thank you.

Thank you.

Megan (1:13:50)

which

is why this is all so powerful, you know? Yeah.

Julie Granger (1:13:53)

Yeah, yeah.

As I have been climbing out of my most recent conformity course, that we'll call it, or unleasing it or whatever we want to say, that has been the most interesting piece, synchronous, just spiritual. Sounds really cliche, but at the same time, it's like the way that the Taylor Swift thing came into my life was,

at the lowest of low points, almost for me. And I just had this nudge, this 100 % divine nudge that was like, just follow that. Just lean into that pleasure, lean into that joy, see where it takes you. And I knew like going to Paris to go to the Eras tour was not just going to a concert. I was like, this is some type of spiritual invitation. I don't know where this

And spending all the money on it, again, I want to acknowledge the privilege of that. it's like, there was some invitation there. And I'm still seeing the fruits of that process play out and the parallels and the lessons in these little micro-moments that are like, ⁓ So thank you.

Megan (1:14:56)

Yeah, yeah. And you are

and I am like, that's the cool thing, because I brought it up because I still feel it. And so what I think is so important is like when you take those steps to your pleasure to your joy to your heart bursting those moments, it has this ripple effect on others because I'm still I'm grateful for the energy of your experience. Right now as I'm sitting here, you know, it's like it's yeah, it's pretty cool.

Julie Granger (1:15:05)

Yeah.

Mm-mm-mm.

Yes.

Now I know who's going to go with me to the next concert. You're on the list. ⁓ I hope she has another one because the world needs more of that. well, anyway, we could keep doing this. But at the end of every episode, what I do is a lightning round, a rapid fire round. It's just fun and I'll always

Megan (1:15:26)

I mean, please, please. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I know.

⁓ no.

Julie Granger (1:15:46)

It starts as fun, but it ends up profound with almost everyone, which I love. So have five questions for you. If you're game, the goal is to give me your gut first thing. All right. All right, number one. If you could be any animal other than a human, what would it be and why?

Megan (1:15:48)

Thank you.

OK.

want to say a bird because I'd be able to fly and the site that they have, to be able to zoom out like that, but also they could get really close to something. Yeah, that's what I'd choose.

Julie Granger (1:16:16)

Yeah, you get that bird's eye view of things. But like you said, you can get in the trees to get into the granular.

Megan (1:16:16)

Yeah.

Julie Granger (1:16:22)

All right, next question. Does pineapple belong on pizza?

Megan (1:16:25)

No, heck no. And strawberries don't belong on salads.

Julie Granger (1:16:27)

⁓ heck no.

breaking news. I love this. I'm actually not big with strawberries on salad, like strawberries and goat cheese and salad. It's not a mix for me. Not a mix.

Megan (1:16:31)

I know. I know.

Yeah, grapes can be

grapes can be in chicken salad, but yeah, no. Pineapple does not belong on pizza. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no.

Julie Granger (1:16:43)

Okay.

We're not mixing the fruit with the savory. Love

this. Okay. Next one. If you could get a drink with any person dead or alive, pick their brain, be in their energy space, whatever it is, who would it be?

Megan (1:17:00)

This feels so cliche, but I just have to say it. She's the first person that came to me is Oprah. ⁓ I think because of the energetic reach that I know that she had, like that she contains like these multitudes of experiences and like stories. And I just think that that would be, if I could get her in like this, yeah, like in a non curated state, like her most unfiltered human like state, then I would choose her. Not the, you know,

Julie Granger (1:17:06)

Love it!

Megan (1:17:27)

to put on version. But maybe that's given. Yeah. Yeah.

Julie Granger (1:17:29)

Yeah. Yeah. I agree.

It's like luminary expansive soul, for sure. Yeah. She didn't get to where she is by being inauthentic. Yeah, totally. Speaking of giving people permission to do that. All right, love that one. Oprah, we'll have to call her up. Oprah, if your people are listening, please reach out to Megan. Taylor Swift. Taylor, would be over the moon. I be over the moon.

Megan (1:17:34)

Yeah, yeah. ⁓

Totally.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

I know. Ooh, or Taylor Swift. Hello, we need to have Taylor Swift too. Yeah.

Julie Granger (1:17:58)

I don't think I

would lose my cool though. think I'd be like, hey, you know? Speaking of bringing people off a pedestal, it's not that I don't respect what she's done, but it's almost like greatness sees greatness. Not to be boastful, but it's kind of like, I get it. I get it. You know?

Megan (1:18:02)

Yeah, yeah, I know.

No, this is something I wondered

if we were going to talk about today because I've had many, this is also part of the last couple of years, I've had experiences of meeting people that I've put on pedestals and the experience is just what you're talking about. It's like, I'm a hundred percent myself and it's like this human to human connection. And it is a wild embodied sensation. Yeah, that's my sense too. It's like, I just show up just like we're talking right now.

Julie Granger (1:18:35)

Yeah. As a PT, when I was practicing as a PT long ago in a past life, in my clinical life, I worked at a practice where we saw a lot of professional athletes, celebrities, et cetera. And a patient came in who I didn't recognize who he was or what his name was. And I was just being me and in my like genius zone and just, you know, all of those things. And then he told me what he did.

Megan (1:18:36)

Mm-hmm.

the food.

Mm-hmm.

Julie Granger (1:18:59)

and who he was. And I was like, OK, well, great. We're going to now work on your elbow or whatever it was. And it was one of those moments where I really recognized the importance of not pedestaling people and just being human to human with them.

Megan (1:19:10)

no, it's glitching.

Julie Granger (1:19:14)

I got two more questions and then we'll wrap up. I am a fly on the wall.

Megan (1:19:14)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Julie Granger (1:19:19)

on an average Friday night for you. What do I see you doing?

Megan (1:19:22)

man, okay.

Probably, let's see here, wrangling the kids. My kids are wild and trying to figure out what we want to do if we want to go do something, which oftentimes is the case, like go have dinner outside somewhere where they can run around. A lot of times we'll meet up with friends on Friday nights. Yeah, it usually involves good food. ⁓

good people and then, you know, and a lot of wrangling. That's the phase of life I'm in. It's super glamorous, of course. Yeah. Yeah. And then when I get them to bed, it's usually just, I have a great, great front porch. And so I'll go sit out there with some kind of beverage, whether it's tea or a glass of red wine, um, and just sit out there and talk.

Julie Granger (1:19:54)

Yes, yes, of course. Professional child wrangling is very glam at all times.

Megan (1:20:13)

That's it. Yeah. It's like my happy place.

Julie Granger (1:20:16)

Amazing. Well, love that. That sounds like just a very

human Friday night.

Megan (1:20:22)

It is. Yeah, I'm embracing that part of it. You know, the glamour is awesome and it can come at any point. I embrace that wholeheartedly. But like, yeah, the simple moments are also pretty awesome.

Julie Granger (1:20:34)

You're

multi-dimensional. This is what I love about you. We can be glam and we can be messy and it's...

Megan (1:20:36)

We can do it all. Yeah.

I had someone say like this, this time in life for me was about being showing up as me wherever I go, whether it's the middle of the forest or a palace somewhere. And I was like, I always think about that. I'm like, yep. Whether it's like my front porch or some exotic vacation somewhere. It's like, yeah, I can, I can show up as me. That's the

Julie Granger (1:20:59)

Hmm. What a freaking

boss move. Just coming back to even what we said about Oprah and Taylor Swift is like staying anchored in you instead of trying to be something for them or, you know, fangirling super hard or whatever it is. Not that those are wrong things. It's just like staying so centered that even these seeming goddesses of society aren't moving you from

Megan (1:21:19)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Julie Granger (1:21:27)

who you truly are.

Megan (1:21:28)

Yeah, who is also a goddess. Like everybody in, you know I mean? Like once you realize, once you realize this, this is what always happens too. I just love this so much when, when aligned people get together, there is just like a mutual like cheerleading that ends up happening. It's like, and you're a goddess and I'm a goddess and we're all goddesses and we're all, and we can show up that way. It's like so powerful. Doesn't it sound like Oprah? She's like, and you get a car and you get a car.

Julie Granger (1:21:32)

Exactly!

And you-

Megan (1:21:56)

It's like,

it's magnetic. Yeah.

Julie Granger (1:21:59)

The very first

podcast interview I did with my friend Parmise was about this paradox of, we called it giftedness, like very intellectual gifted, emotionally gifted, you know all that, but gifts we'll say, or seeing yourself as a goddess and how one is women we've been conditioned to qualify that and be like, well, I'm not true. We even said it, well, I'm not being boastful. And I think it's okay to qualify it because...

Megan (1:22:20)

I know.

Julie Granger (1:22:23)

while we can't control what other people think about what we say, I think it shows some humility and humanity to do that. But we've been so conditioned to not own our greatness or to pedestalize or give people the God complex, all the things, right? And the amount of...

like disconnection that creates and separateness that creates is immense and the cause of many world human spiritual conflicts in the world. And this is the bridge, like seeing your greatness and your humaneness at once.

Megan (1:22:52)

Yeah,

yeah. Because when we can see it, then it's an open invitation for other people to see it in themselves too. Like I've been playing around with the queen, the queen. And I'm like, yeah, if I, if I can show up in that energy, that can all that also invites other people to show up in there. And there's two, it's such an invitation, a permission slip, you know.

Julie Granger (1:23:02)

Mm-hmm.

And I feel like the reverence applies not only to the greatness, but also to the human-ness. I think of people like Oprah or Taylor Swift and how so many people are so quick knee-jerk to shame or call them out when they so much as human, when there's the tiniest bit of human-ness. And obviously you and I both know and most people know that's a projection of what they think of their own human-ness and our...

Megan (1:23:20)

Yeah.

Julie Granger (1:23:38)

again, disconnected conditioning on, well, if you're great, then you also can't be human. You're either God or you're human, but not both. Call out Jesus on that one. Just a real call out there. Dude was both. calling out the people on that one. I think that, like, I just love this path of owning your greatness. And also, it's like the light and the dark, all the things we've been saying of the both, the all.

is sacred and reverent and beautiful.

Megan (1:24:03)

Mm-hmm, totally.

Julie Granger (1:24:04)

I feel like that's a good place to wrap up.

Megan (1:24:07)

Yeah, I think so too.

Julie Granger (1:24:08)

one last thing, parting words for our audience. First of all, thank you for being here. I feel like we have so much more to dig into and I'm so excited to see what comes next for you. Cheer you on. Thank you. do you have any piece of advice you'd give younger Megan?

Megan (1:24:18)

⁓ you.

Hmm. I love this question.

what comes to me is just don't be afraid to shine. Yeah, I think it's that. I know it's that.

and don't and

You're powerful. Yeah, I would just remind her of her power.

⁓ mm-hmm. And I, yeah.

Julie Granger (1:24:37)

I feel like, I

was going to say, feel like you just knowing your energy and being in your space and feeling your energy, you would say those words, but you almost wouldn't need to say them.

Megan (1:24:47)

⁓ Hmm.

Julie Granger (1:24:48)

Like there would either be just felt sense or demonstration in a way. Again, like walking it, you're just walking it or holding the space or witnessing or seeing. And that brings its own power. It's almost like giving it almost back to your very first thing. It's like almost putting labels around it or words weakens it, weakens the power of it a little bit.

Megan (1:24:56)

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

⁓ thank you for that.

Julie Granger (1:25:10)

You're welcome. All right, I saw that in you, now we're gonna see what that turns into six years from now.

Megan (1:25:11)

Mmm.

Eight, nine, Yeah.

Julie Granger (1:25:18)

I'm seeing it myself

too. It's like the reflections for me too, you You love those moments when you say something out of your mouth either to a client or a friend and you're like, that was for me.

Megan (1:25:22)

Okay.

Constant. Yeah, constant. Yeah. I don't know where that came from, but thank you, self.

Julie Granger (1:25:30)

I needed that today.

I think of

so many client interactions where I'm like, this thing you're talking about and I'm helping you through is absolutely the divine being like, here you go, Julie. Here's your lesson.

Megan (1:25:38)

Yeah.

Oh, every day. Yeah. Every day.

Yeah. Yeah. And, how cool that you can be, you are a portal for that too. Like you're a portal for it to come through for other people. And then also, you know when to also receive it for yourself. Yeah. I mean, every day.

Julie Granger (1:26:00)

It's like, yeah, it's

the infinity loop of giving and receiving. It's again, all. It's just, it's all. It's a heart or this heart, heart hands. There we go. Love that. Well, Megan, thank you for being here from the bottom of my heart. Tell us lastly, how to get in touch with you. What's the best way for people to reach out?

Megan (1:26:06)

Yep.

I think the best way is probably just social media, Meg Broadhead on Instagram. Yeah, that's probably the best way. Yeah.

Julie Granger (1:26:27)

I'll put that in the show notes so people need the spelling

or whatever it is. They can go connect with you. And y'all definitely follow her on Instagram because I love following you on Instagram.

seeing again, just seeing your light shine and feeling it shine also.

Megan (1:26:42)

Yeah.

⁓ back at you. I mean, it's what brought us together in this moment. So it's amazing.

Julie Granger (1:26:46)

Exactly, exactly. think you

commented on something, I can't even remember what it was, about the podcast maybe. I posted something and I was like, hey, you know what, by the way, I was thinking about reaching out to you and I haven't talked to you in like six years, but would you like to be on my podcast? Yeah.

Megan (1:26:57)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah,

no, that was so, yeah, that was such a synchronous, yeah, where I felt the same way. It was an immediate yes. Thank you for doing this and for having these conversations, like these real authentic, shining your light and inviting other people to do the same. It's really powerful.

Julie Granger (1:27:09)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yes, I'm here. ⁓ love those.

Thank you, I appreciate it. Well,

hopefully we can have a lot more of them. just, I wanted to create this corner of the internet since we're all on the internet where like the beacon almost, the lighthouse where people who are in those liminal spaces or are leaving those corsets or are breaking out of those boxes had a example or sort of a...

Megan (1:27:32)

you

resource.

Julie Granger (1:27:51)

resource

of back to the point about belonging of, wait, OK, the people in my corset or the people who have formed my corset may not be my people anymore, but I need people. And who do I now? Who gets me now? Who is the one who's going to see me, hold me, hold that reverence for my human journey and my divine journey, and hold safety?

Megan (1:28:00)

Yeah. Yep.

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Julie Granger (1:28:15)

not just safety, also celebration for it. and I actually had someone, go ahead.

Megan (1:28:18)

Yes, yes, yeah, yeah. gotcha. Yeah. So similar.

Julie Granger (1:28:25)

I had someone message me, who's an old client, if she's listening, she'll know who she is. last night, who was just like, you know what, it's been a while since we chatted, and this is where we left off. And I just want to update you. And I just wanted to tell you because I knew that you could hold this joy and that you would be genuinely excited for me. And I was like, thank you.

Megan (1:28:45)

That's when you know you've made it, wherever it is, is like when you can hold the pain and also the other end of the spectrum, the joy, the celebration, it's like, ooh, that's a full spectrum right there. Yeah, powerful.

Julie Granger (1:28:57)

And it was

even a lesson and an invitation for me for one little piece where I was like, I'm so glad she came into my little aura today and dropped that because I needed that today for me.

Megan (1:29:08)

Yeah. Yeah. Yep. So cool. I love it.

Julie Granger (1:29:10)

beautiful.

Everything's divine. All right. Well, Megan, thank you for being here and y'all reach out to Megan on Instagram. Go join our program, whatever feels right to you. And we'll have to have you back for sure. right. Hooray. Thank you.

Megan (1:29:20)

Yeah, yes, I would love that. Thank you so much Julie.