Bad Mom City USA: Dr. Jackie Roelofs on Finding Yourself in Motherhood

Pelvic floor PT and mom-of-two Dr. Jackie Roelofs (aka @drjuicyjackie) joins Julie to tell the truth about motherhood when the dream life and the day-to-day don’t match. 

Jackie traces her origin story from PT student with debilitating cycle-linked back pain and an “I-know-it’s-endo” hunch, through COVID-era diagnosis and surgery, to rebuilding trust in her body and becoming the mirror she once needed for other moms. 

Together they unpack identity loss after birth, nervous-system spirals, and why the goal isn’t perfect regulation—it’s surrendering to the mess and finding safety again. Jackie introduces her “unprogrammed program” for real postpartum strength (two minutes counts!), gives permission to care about aesthetics and grieve what’s changed, and coins the now-iconic Bad Mom City USA. 

The episode closes with a Swiftie lightning round and Jackie’s story of dragging herself to the Eras Tour in the thick of postpartum anxiety—how scream-singing became medicine—and the two whispers she’d give any mom in the spiral: trust yourself and you’re not alone.

01:00 — A Love Letter to Moms + Meet Dr. Jackie

09:58 — From a Knowing Nod to an Endo Hunch: Jackie’s Origin Story

23:02 — COVID Pause, Diagnosis & the Pivot to Pelvic PT

44:21 — Motherhood Identity Shift: Strategy vs. Surrender

56:23 — The Unprogrammed Program: Grief, Body Image & Permission

1:03:28 — Bad Mom City USA + Eras Tour: Joy, Tears & Repair

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Follow her on Instagram @drjuicyjackie 

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Transcript

Julie Granger (00:00)

Welcome to Sink and Swim,

podcast that invites you to sink deeply into your

the stories you were born to tell about yourself,

swim and shine unapologetically into your soul's

I'm your host, Julie

this is the space where we celebrate the powerful, raw, and transformative stories of

have discovered that life isn't sink or

It's sink and swim.

These are the people who have gone from paddling furiously to rise, succeed, and stay on top in life,

and their relationships,

to instead sinking into the deepest and most hidden stories of the soul

discovering there the power to rise to even higher heights.

My guest and I will share our untamed, unfiltered truths and

and illuminate how to live in love with more purpose, wholeheartedness, freedom, and

So take a deep breath, settle in,

on your swimsuit, goggles, and

and get ready to sink into the deep end with us.

Julie Granger (01:00)

Hey friends, real quick before we dive into this episode, if you are a high achieving woman who is also a mom or you're thinking about becoming one, and especially if you're in healthcare or any career where people are looking to you for answers, this episode is for you. This episode is a love letter to the moms who feel touched out, torn up.

and trying your damn best to regulate yourself, even while feeling completely lost in the very life that you wished for, that you prayed for, that you built.

Today, I sit down with one of my absolute favorite humans on the planet, Dr. Jackie Roelofs AKA Dr. Juicy Jackie. Jackie is a pelvic floor physical therapist, a mama of two precious little boys, a coach for moms going through all parts of motherhood. And honestly, she is one of the realest voices I know when it comes to accurately depicting what motherhood

actually feels like and looks like the real side of it, not the filtered side, not the side that the world says you're supposed to show, but the actual real stuff. And she is a voice and a role model on realness in a world that really encourages us to be anything but real. So I just love that about her. In this episode, we talk about identity loss.

nervous system spirals, grief regulation, or the lack thereof of said nervous system spirals, pelvic pain, spiritual initiation, losing your intuition, finding it again, losing it again, finding it again, and the surprising radical power of screaming into a pillow. We also have the world's

premiere of a very important concept called Bad Mom City USA, trademarked by Jackie, which you'll just have to hear to understand in the episode. Most importantly, at the end, we make time for a full on Taylor Swift deep dive, including what it took for Jackie to drag herself out of the house and into the Eras tour in the middle of postpartum chaos. And she illuminates even through tears, actually we were both in tears, how that night cracked something

open in her healing and if you are a Swiftie if you know you know almost everyone who's been there at least once knows that going to the Eras Tour cracked something open in you. If you've ever wondered whether the

goal is to be regulated in your nervous system all the time. This conversation offers a different possibility that maybe the regulation is actually in the surrender to the dysregulation. So if you've ever felt like the life you dreamed is here and it's beautiful, but also you're falling apart inside of it, you're grieving, you almost hate what it's become, I want you to know you're not alone. So

Let's go, it's time to sink and swim.

Julie Granger (03:36)

All right, hey y'all, welcome back to the Sink and Swim podcast. I am absolutely elated to introduce today's guest to you. man, okay, so I get to chat with someone who is the definition of fun meets fierce. And like a girl after my own heart, the one and only @drjuicyjackie , AKA Jackie Roelofs Jackie and I go way back, actually. We met in the PT world.

She's a pelvic floor physical therapist. She's a coach for moms going through pretty much every stage and phase of the motherhood journey. And also she walks her talk. She's the mom of two little ones, including a toddler and a baby, which honestly makes her a superhero. I don't know if you would want that title, but I'm gonna give it to you. ⁓ Yeah. And what I love is you help your mom, like your moms.

Jackie Roelofs (04:24)

Let's go.

Julie Granger (04:31)

they're not yours. You help moms heal their bodies and reconnect with their intuition. Not just like on the surface level of their bodies with movement, but there's deep emotional support, much rooted in your own story, which I love. And real life strategies that actually work when you're touched out when you're running on two hours of sleep and holding a baby on your hip. One of my favorite things that I see is you're like, you want to work out here, let's hold this baby.

while you're in the grocery store and here's what we're just gonna incorporate into your everyday life instead of like giving mom just one other thing that she has to do separate from her kid, which is impossible when you are attached to a baby on your hip. I love that Jackie is not afraid to talk about how hard the season can be and how real it is. It's giving Kylie Kelce in the best way of Not Gonna Lie just we're just gonna.

Jackie Roelofs (05:24)

Okay, moment.

Julie Granger (05:26)

illuminate the realness of it. And I think so many people need that, need to see an accurate mirroring of their experience instead of here's what you should be, here's like this subtle and not so subtle shaming of your experience. And so if you're listening in and you're a mom, or maybe you're not a mom, I hope you'll get something from this. If you're a healer or someone who is in the process of healing, if you're a high achieving woman,

with some type of neurodivergent wiring, trying to make peace and just live your life among all of it and find joy that you're in for a very juicy, honest and life-giving conversation today. So Jackie Joy, thank you and welcome.

Jackie Roelofs (06:10)

Thanks for having me, Julie.

Julie Granger (06:12)

Yeah, I'm so excited. We were just talking before we got online that Jackie's also gonna start her own podcast sometime soon and we're going for it guys.

Jackie Roelofs (06:20)

We're doing it. It's

going to be my summer fun project. So looking forward to that.

Julie Granger (06:25)

Mm-hmm. That's exactly what it is. Yeah.

So y'all look her up. Make sure you go follow her on Instagram. Hi, @drjuicyjackie . Go do that right now before you even listen to the rest of this episode and then come back and listen to us. So I mentioned it really briefly, but what I love about you, there's so many things I love about you, but one of them is how your story has become your service. And I feel like that has been you.

as long as I've known you, which can make things really challenging sometimes.

Jackie Roelofs (06:58)

Yeah, because I'm like in the middle of it while I'm like, hey, like, here's how I can help you with your like prolapse. Meanwhile, I'm like, you know, nine months postpartum being like, it's frustrating that I still can't run without feeling like pressure in my vagina. So yeah, that's a, you know, we want to get right into the juicy stuff. Yeah, that's like. ⁓

Julie Granger (07:10)

Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, that's what we do

here. Yeah. I think there's just such integrity in that where you are walking the journey alongside your people instead of I'm ahead of you, I'm beyond you. And yeah, there's things you've overcome where you can reach back a hand to someone else. But there isn't this, I've never gotten this from you.

Jackie Roelofs (07:20)

for sure.

Julie Granger (07:45)

there isn't this sort of power differential or I have to be more healed than you in order to look at you or I have to be less healed than you in order to look at you.

Jackie Roelofs (07:53)

Yeah,

and if it's easier for someone that I'm helping to heal than like the things that I'm healing in myself, like hell yeah, like I'm super excited to be like on that journey too, you know. It's like I can cheer you on in that while I'm also like reckoning with, yeah, like the things that I'm dealing with as well, so.

Julie Granger (08:03)

Yeah, right? I know.

Jackie Roelofs (08:12)

Yeah, much more like journeying than like you said, like power differential, which is a theme in like the healthcare settings that I have.

Julie Granger (08:20)

Right.

Well, when we, okay, one of my first memories of you, I think I hadn't been introduced to you before this, but this is one of the ones that like sealed it into my DNA, that this is who you are, that there's this sort of like equals was that was I was actually on a literal pedestal. I was speaking at a conference, a PT conference. And, you know, for all intents and purposes, I didn't see myself this way, but so many people.

did, like she's up on the stage, she's in the spotlight, she's the guru, she's got all the information, she's teaching us all these things. You know, and I love speaking, I love teaching, I'm here on a podcast, this is a given. But it was also really nerve wracking, what I was speaking about, because I was kind of, and I know I've told you this story, but I was kind of like, stepping out of my own healthcare shell in what I was actually saying, and to

let that come through my throat, right, through my voice was incredibly, it was an important moment for me. And I remember looking out into the audience and I saw this person standing against the wall, nodding. And it was this like knowing nod. It was one of those, see you, I hear you, you're doing great nods. And I just felt my eyes continue to go in your direction. That was you, by the way, spoiler, that was her. you know,

At that time, the way the healthcare system is set up, if you're not familiar with it, is you've got like this hierarchy of people, right? You've got the experts, you've got the gurus, you've got people who are in a mentoring role, and you've got students, you've got residents. It's this whole ladder. And at the time, you were a student, correct? Weren't you a student?

Jackie Roelofs (09:58)

Yes, I

was. was there. Gosh, I think it was my second year of PT school.

And I was there because I got this like leadership scholarship or something that I could use to like go to conferences and things like that. So I decided to go to CSM, which was this big PT conference that Julie's talking about. And actually like full circle also, like we can go back to this, but that was like when I was kind of first starting my like severe chronic.

Julie Granger (10:25)

Right.

Jackie Roelofs (10:26)

back pain journey and also like fertility journey like of like PCOS, endometriosis, like all the things but literally like why I was standing up against the wall is because my back hurt so bad that I could not sit. And I love that I got a better view of you that way. That was just.

Julie Granger (10:35)

Mm-hmm.

What a gift. And I got a better

view of you. ⁓

Jackie Roelofs (10:41)

I literally was hurting so bad in that moment.

So it was like also like, speaking of like full circle, like me and Julie's relationship, it's like, I feel like you showed up in my life and like times that I like needed a different voice to speak into like what I was going through in various, I mean, gosh, it's been, trying to think that was 2018 maybe? So it's been like seven years that we've been with each other. And that was kind of like, yeah, it was like their fangirling because I wanted to hear, like that was like, you know, I was like, yes,

Like I want someone who's talking about like how like periods like impact, you know, like your recovery and your healing and how you need to exercise. at the time, I don't know that I realized how rare that was in health care and in PT world, but I was just like latching onto it. Cause I was like, that's what I wanted for my career too. Of just like not only speaking about specific things, but also just kind of like going off.

Julie Granger (11:23)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Jackie Roelofs (11:35)

off the scripts that I had been taught in school and things like that. That was like a little bit of a, yeah, just like precursor to like what I could be doing with my career that I didn't quite feel like I could access yet. But, and also, yeah, it was the beginning of like a really big journey for me with my body and like everything that I was dealing with there too that has now informed what I do. So, yeah.

Julie Granger (11:43)

Hmm

Such a full circle conversation. Because we're both now on the other side of it. I'm now, you know, I think the other thing, the thing I was most nervous about, not just the hormone stuff that I was talking about, because that's not really PT, was I brought in a lot of mental health stuff. And I was like emotional stuff and spiritual stuff. And again, I'm just like looking at you going, yes, out in the audience. And I just felt this sense of equal, not like, I'm speaking and she's a listener. It was very much like.

Jackie Roelofs (12:11)

Yes.

Julie Granger (12:24)

this accurate reflection, like you were serving as the mirror of an accurate reflection. And that can only come from someone who can receive you and see you accurately and then reflect it back, right?

Jackie Roelofs (12:38)

Yeah, which is crazy because at the time I was like little PT student like trying to figure out how to like have the career that I wanted. I was like, not like I worshiped you, but you know, I was just like, this is somebody I want to follow, you know, like I know there wasn't a power differential, but there was just like this, like, there are people in this world that are like doing what I want to do. So yeah.

Julie Granger (12:38)

And yeah.

Yeah.

No.

Yeah, it's like sistering,

right? I've never felt that way. And you you've been a client even, and I've never really been like there. I can tell when someone's got me on the pedestal, even if I'm not putting myself there, if that makes sense. And you probably can too. And if you're listening, you know what I'm talking about. There's a very different energy behind it versus when someone's kind of like, I hate the word looking up to, but like seeing you as a guide or seeing you as someone to walk beside them and.

Jackie Roelofs (13:03)

Next slide.

Yes, totally.

Julie Granger (13:25)

Just again, seeing an accurate mirroring and receiving an accurate mirroring from. And I am so grateful for that moment that it also kind of kicked off you maybe feeling what scene that's like, yes, there is so much more to me than my back pain that I'm standing up here against the wall with. So tell us a little bit or tell us about the journey of.

Like the origin story of you going, wait, this is actually maybe the path I want to go on.

Jackie Roelofs (13:52)

I'm gonna try to keep this like, you know, not too long-winded but like just hit the high points but I mean I feel like that was yeah like

Julie Granger (13:58)

I can edit it, so...

Jackie Roelofs (14:01)

That was a moment, like, you know, when you think about like these kind of key moments, ⁓ I had like heard about you because one of my professors was like, you would really like this person. I was actually another full circle moment. So funny. I didn't realize I was like doing this at the time as far as like saying no to things in order to like help myself. was you were speaking at like the Georgia PT conference. I can't remember what they call that. But I was like, you know, supposed to go to that. was like over the

Julie Granger (14:04)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Jackie Roelofs (14:30)

weekend,

it was in Athens and I remember like literally three days like I was just like riddled with anxiety of like this just I just can't I just don't feel like I can do this I really want to stay home this weekend and rest and but I was like really excited about going to see your talk because my professor is like she does like female athlete stuff and like she was like telling me about you and and I was I was like really disappointed that I didn't get to go so I was like

I'm really excited to see the conference the next week. But really, all that to say, said that was like, that's the kind of thing I do all day long now, is like, no, that does not sound like it's gonna be energizing for me. And I just decided not to go, even if it kinda makes me sad a little bit.

Julie Granger (15:17)

Right,

of course.

Jackie Roelofs (15:17)

But yeah, so full circle moment there as well but I I was drawn to that topic because I was a female athlete and I actually like didn't play volleyball in college, but I was supposed to play D1 volleyball and I had a shoulder injury that Resulted in you know, a lot of anxiety burnout You know did all so that was like kind of my intro to PTA spent so much time in physical therapy

both like rehabbing my shoulder while I was still playing and then rehabbing my shoulder after I got surgery. And it was it was a place of healing for me. And so I was like always interested in it. But of course, like being I don't know if this is Enneagram seven me or like me, like I could not commit to PT because I just had so many other things I wanted to do. Like I was an art major for like a semester in college and then, you know, like thought about going into mental health counseling. I actually started a master's in counseling

Julie Granger (15:57)

Hehehehe

Jackie Roelofs (16:12)

before I went to PT school. And, you know, I thought about med school for like one summer, had like this big plan of like going to med school. And then I was like, no, like, okay, like, so that was kind of like, as far as the career of physical therapy, the career track, it's like, I knew that I could help people on a deeper level than just like supporting them through, you know, the medical pieces of that was like, I loved that there was this connection I had with my PT and like all the people in the clinic that I went to even that was like,

Julie Granger (16:15)

button.

Mm-hmm.

Jackie Roelofs (16:41)

like

it was really a patient mill, but I like still experienced like really good care. And yeah, like I just felt like that was a big part of my journey. So I knew that there was this emotional peace and spiritual peace of healing that was part of, you know, the career of physical therapy that was different than like if you're a medical doctor and you get to see people, know, my dad was an orthopedic surgeon, so he would see like 40 people in a day. And he did, you know, he did the best he could, but 40 people in a day, that's like, I don't know how much that

Julie Granger (17:02)

Hmm.

Jackie Roelofs (17:11)

So it was like eight or nine minutes a patient. So, ⁓ so yeah, that was kind of my entry into PT. But then as I yeah, so like coming back to 2018, like seeing you speak, I was on sort of like, it was like a fertility journey. I wasn't like trying to conceive or even interested in having kids anytime soon, but I had always had like crazy wacky periods and I had just been put on and off different birth controls. None of them really agreed with me. And I think I was on

Julie Granger (17:13)

Yeah. Yeah.

Jackie Roelofs (17:37)

birth control like at the time and then I like decided to get off because I was like I want to figure out what's going on because one day my husband and I do want to have kids like when we're done with school and so I had gotten off birth control and like my first two periods like I had like this like severe back pain I had kind of been like on the back front like it had been going on for a while but it just got like so bad and I was starting to have like nerve pain which I never had until after I got off birth control so in my head I was already connecting the dots

but I was like, like there's something like hormonal going on with like my cycles because as soon as my period was over, I started to feel better. And then 10 days before my period again, I started to have those like sciatic nerve symptoms. And then I full on, I'm pretty sure I had like an actual like musculoskeletal injury, like a disinjury, but then, you know, compounded by the inflammation of everything going on in body.

Julie Granger (18:09)

Mm-hmm.

the things. Yeah.

Jackie Roelofs (18:33)

So when I met you, was like in the middle of that. mean, I think it was on a steroid because I was like in so much pain. And I remember like trying to look up like research articles that like in my head, I swear I knew that it was endometriosis. Like within two months of getting off birth control, like, I have endometriosis. I know I do. And because of the like relationship of my symptoms and I started to realize like, yeah, like I don't have like the hallmark stuff, but I guess I just always thought like severe period pain was normal.

And, you know, and so hearing you say, period, man, it's not normal. was like, hell yeah, I believe that too. But like, I never knew that until very recently. But, you know, again, going on this journey of like seeing different OB-GYNs and like just kind of being like, well, that's kind of hard to diagnose. And like, you definitely have the profile of someone with PCOS and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so I kind of had this like half a diagnosis of PCOS, but kind of like, you can't access a diagnosis of endometriosis. I'm like, okay, like.

Julie Granger (19:07)

Mm-hmm.

Jackie Roelofs (19:29)

But I'm in so much pain and I learned in school that if I was like a healthy like person doing my PT exercises I should heal within you know six to twelve weeks and be able to bond with my life and I was not it was like getting worse and not better and I had like severe anxiety like commuting to and from school in Atlanta like an hour each way and then sitting all day in class and I was like coming up on my clinicals and I knew that I was gonna have to work in a hospital and like transfer people who were like 200 pounds and

Julie Granger (19:40)

Mm-hmm.

Jackie Roelofs (19:59)

So that was kind of like my back pain journey, but I knew, I knew that it was related to my cycles. And then I started to notice like when I'm ovulating, I'm having this like severe, like I was basically having like a full on like pelvic upslip every time I was ovulating. I could barely walk up a flight of stairs. I was going through my clinicals, you know, so a year passes and I'm having worse pain, not better. And I've been seeing like one of the best PTs in Atlanta this whole time.

⁓

and I didn't want to say like somewhere along there we actually started working together like like

Julie Granger (20:30)

We reconnected, yeah. Mm-hmm,

Jackie Roelofs (20:32)

coaching for like health coaching and hormone health.

Julie Granger (20:34)

mm-hmm, that's right.

Jackie Roelofs (20:36)

And I was like, feel like Julie is like the only one I know who has like talked about like period pain not being normal. And I was like, yeah, that's like my periods suck. But like that was not, that was the least of my concerns. So if I talked to an OBGYN of like, I'm having this musculoskeletal pain, that's all the time. But like during ovulation and during my period, it's like so bad that I can't even like, if I stretch, like it's just gonna flare me up. It's not gonna make me feel better.

much like seven to eight out of 10.

Julie Granger (21:01)

You, I remember you

were afraid. You were, it was, you were so hyped. This is me looking at it now and naming it as you're describing it, that you were so, I I like remember this conversation. You were like, what can I do, Julie? Like I want to exercise. I need, I know I need to move, but literally like lying on the ground and stretching my hamstring is flaring me up. And I was like, we need to get you in like really basic Pilates, like not, not hardcore, but like.

Jackie Roelofs (21:21)

Yes. Yes. It was.

Yeah.

Julie Granger (21:30)

just move

your body and retrain your brain that it's okay to move, move, you know.

Jackie Roelofs (21:34)

Yes.

Yes. And I, I remember

to a PT program that was actually very ahead of the game with like all the pain science research and stuff. But I was learning this and I think it was actually like, I think I was like, Oh no, am I centrally sensitized? And I'm like, yes, I was, of course I was. But like I, like it was like, that was freaking me out more and making my nervous system more like worried about any kind of movement. Like I could not like bend over and like fill up my water at like the water cooler without

Julie Granger (21:40)

Yeah.

Great.

Yeah.

Jackie Roelofs (22:03)

like flaring up my symptoms. had like a 45 minute like foam rolling nerve gliding routine every single morning. And like you said, yeah, like I was afraid of movement. I couldn't walk more than like half a mile without like burning without like that hip pain. It was bad. And this is coming from someone who like I used to run half marathons. I was a volleyball player, you know, like, and I've always done just like kind of whatever I wanted to do. And I mean, I'm also a hypermobile, so I have gotten injured doing almost anything, but I,

Julie Granger (22:22)

Mm-hmm.

breathing.

Jackie Roelofs (22:32)

I always

I always could like swim laps if I couldn't run. I could always like ride a bike if I couldn't run. And I was just at this point where I was like, am I just going to live the rest of my life like this? I really had started to accept that. And I think I did actually start with a Pilates instructor upon your recommendation. And then COVID hit. And so so that actually kind of started a healing. I mean, that was like a blessing for me as much as it like made my future quite uncertain graduating PT.

Julie Granger (22:35)

Mm-hmm.

Jackie Roelofs (23:02)

school in 2020. And like literally residency and then like three job opportunities that I was considering all went away. but it gave me this time that I needed to like

Julie Granger (23:09)

Mm-hmm.

Jackie Roelofs (23:14)

actually, yeah, heal. Like I just wasn't like hustling. And yeah, I really, really needed that. But I actually did also, I was like, I'm gonna give it a Hail Mary and like reach out to this like endosurgeon here that you had also suggested, by the way. ⁓ And you were like, please, Jackie, if you ever consider like getting endometriosis surgery, like this is where you need to go. He's in Atlanta, like he's one of the best in the world. And he literally is and he just happened to be there. And also because of COVID, he

Julie Granger (23:29)

Mm-hmm.

Jackie Roelofs (23:43)

was not like taking like people were not traveling to go see him like normally he has so many people from out of state I did one telehealth visit with him filled out about like 15 pages of paperwork for him and and again it's like as a pelvic health therapist it's like now these are questions I asked my clients but I just didn't know like bowel health stuff and like urinary urgency and frequency and like pain with sex and like all of that like I wasn't having a lot of that it was just like okay

Julie Granger (24:00)

Great.

Jackie Roelofs (24:11)

⁓

Yeah, like all of these are related But I had one 30 minute telehealth session with me and he just like looked me in the eyes He was like I think the Zendo and I think I can help you and this is a year and a half by the way after

Julie Granger (24:23)

you

Jackie Roelofs (24:24)

myself, but I had just, you know, I know we're talking about like intuition and trust. It's like I had really lost trust in my body because I was living in a body that I didn't recognize. couldn't, I mean, and I had lost so much weight too. Like I was like borderline like underweight because I lost muscle because I wasn't exercising and I didn't consider myself to be like sick, but I was. I was living a sick life and I did have surgery and that was the beginning of, you know.

Julie Granger (24:31)

Yeah.

you

Yeah.

Jackie Roelofs (24:53)

so I got that surgery 2020, like things were very crazy. I couldn't even get a job out of school, but that also ended up being a blessing for me. And I actually started going to pelvic floor physical therapy myself, which should have been something I was doing all along. And I just didn't know. And that was actually my entryway, but I was still like big orthopedics girl. wanted to like help, you know, I wanted to help you with chronic pain. And I thought that that was in orthopedics, but like, as I was going to pelvic PT, I was like,

I think I had already started taking classes because I knew I wanted to do women's health, but more from an orthopedic standpoint. It's just so funny looking back, because now, obviously, it's all the same thing. Being a public floor physical therapist, you're helping women with their musculoskeletal system, but you understand how every other body system influences that and how the musculoskeletal system influences those things as well.

Julie Granger (25:39)

Mm-hmm.

Jackie Roelofs (25:44)

circle of things like in my own story. then, you know, when I was going through this, felt like I was like, there is no one else who has the same symptoms. If I like Google this or that or the other thing, I was trying to find research articles on like, can you have endo like on the side of nerve or like whatever. And I couldn't find, I could not find what I was looking for, but I knew. And but then when I started treating like when I so fast forward to our next encounter, Julie, like I like quitting my job.

job. My first PT job I had for I think like four and a half months maybe and quit my job after coaching called Julie and started seeing my own clients and then decided to go on and like start my own practice. And as I was seeing more people with like just from telling my own story, I was seeing more people with like they would come to me with like these symptoms like chronic back pain or chronic period pain or

Julie Granger (26:17)

Not long, yeah.

Jackie Roelofs (26:41)

or sex or constipation or whatever.

And then I asked a few more questions like, they probably have endo. And it was like one of those things where it's like to me, it's so easy to like recognize that they're and also most of them also were hypermobiles too. That's like a whole other thing. But, you know, just realizing like all of these dots are like should be being connected. But like I went to doctor after doctor after doctor, I even paid like I even paid like a, you know, functional medicine, OBGYN out of pocket as a student. I didn't have enough money to do this at the time, but

Julie Granger (27:13)

Mm-hmm.

Jackie Roelofs (27:13)

desperate ⁓

Julie Granger (27:15)

I remember this. Mm-hmm.

Jackie Roelofs (27:17)

she just it was kind of like more of the same like

it's endo but like that's like something you have to have surgery to diagnose and I was like okay but like what can I do? So that's like sort of my pain and like body journey and then fast forwarding I mean the whole point of all of that was that was actually like part of my fertility journey. I was actually trying to figure out how to have like regular ovulation and then it turned into the pain journey and then you know I got to it's like more of a steady state through like

Julie Granger (27:40)

Mm-hmm.

Jackie Roelofs (27:51)

Healing my body through movement and figuring out like just like a doctor prescribes a dosage of medicine like figuring out What's the right dosage for me? And what's the right type like what's right type of medicine and what's the right dosage? And how can I like increase the amount that I'm doing without causing a flare-up and it's like that's like obvious stuff But for someone with like pain as complicated as mine it was actually Really hard to figure out but a lot of it was just like finding safety finding safety in my body and ⁓

Julie Granger (28:13)

Yeah.

Well.

Jackie Roelofs (28:18)

some of the best PT's and had been trained by some of the best PT's in Atlanta and it just was like I just didn't get the care that I didn't get like the right answers from that.

Julie Granger (28:31)

Well,

going back to our first discussion, you weren't accurately reflected back to you what was actually happening from very wise people we both know and love. it's like finding safety, yes, also finding an accurate mirror. And it's, we all need those people, by the way. know, people can have such expertise and such good intentions and not everyone's a match for everyone.

Jackie Roelofs (28:39)

you

Yes.

Julie Granger (28:58)

depending on the context and your context was very complex and very nuanced and very layered and it's like without even meaning to you were being partitioned into like this is you with an orthopedic problem, this is you with a gynecological problem, this is you with this and in a very vulnerable time of your life where you're impressionable

Jackie Roelofs (28:58)

Yeah.

Julie Granger (29:21)

Like you're learning, you're trying to listen to what people are telling you, you're forming your own career around this whole thing also. And, you your husband's in school, you're in school, there's not a lot of money to throw at this. I mean, we were bartering for everyone listening. Jackie was working with me as a coaching client and I was like, here, scan these things into my Google Drive. You know, like that, I was like, you can't afford me cool, but here, let's just.

Jackie Roelofs (29:49)

grateful for that by the way.

Julie Granger (29:50)

Yeah,

I actually look at those files sometimes and I'm like, I love this. This is just like this nice little symbolic.

Jackie Roelofs (29:53)

Yeah.

That was when Aspen was a puppy too, so I did a little bit of

Julie Granger (29:58)

Yeah, this little puppy.

Everyone who worked for me at some point in that time in my life was a puppy sitter. Shout out to also, let's see, was Amy, Brie, and Elizabeth, lots of little PT or pre-TPT people helping with that. ⁓ But this point about finding safety, I just want to circle back to. It's almost, the first thing you just said, it's very meta, is you're becoming...

Jackie Roelofs (30:10)

Love it.

Julie Granger (30:22)

hypersensitive about being hypersensitive with yourself. It's like becoming, let's use nervous system language, becoming dysregulated about recognizing that you are dysregulated. And I don't know if anyone who is out there who, especially as a woman in healthcare, who knows like all the signs and symptoms and is very self-aware and neuroceptive and all of those things, and then you recognize that you're actually the thing that you.

Jackie Roelofs (30:26)

Yeah.

Ready? Yes.

Julie Granger (30:49)

don't want to be. It's this like backdoor attempt of like control and shame of yourself for being there. And that just hypes up your nervous system even more. that's the spiral, right?

Jackie Roelofs (31:01)

It was the spiral and I feel like, you know, moving forward, like, I mean, I'm here today.

teaching women how to lift weight. The fact that it's just not lost on me. I did a weight workout yesterday in my kid's nursery for 10 minutes. I didn't feel great doing it, but it was like, I can lift so much more weight than I ever thought. Or even just wearing my baby. It is not lost on me that I was not able to go up a flight of steps without them. But that theme, like you said, of just the,

Julie Granger (31:21)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Jackie Roelofs (31:37)

safety and like the nervous system stuff like that is all.

I'm still living it out in the future stories, but it was just like, yeah, that was kind of the origin for which, I mean, I don't even think that much about pain. I mean, there's still things that I'm like, feel like I'm like 90 % and I would like to be able to run like five miles without having to worry about doing all these exercises. But at end of the day, I feel healed from that and healed not just like, okay, yeah, maybe my body

Julie Granger (31:44)

Yeah.

Jackie Roelofs (32:12)

like 80-90 percent but like from a heart perspective it was like that was so traumatic for me and to be like I can like I mean I have a 30 pound baby and a 35 pound toddler and they like to be held a lot and I often have to move the toddler like just as I need to help his body get where he needs to be and like to be able to do that I'm like it doesn't that's not something that I

Julie Granger (32:19)

So dramatic.

Yeah.

Jackie Roelofs (32:39)

worry about doing. It's just, it feels good to be like, okay, yeah, I feel healed from the mental battle that it all was ⁓ of feeling like I couldn't find the answers that I actually already knew, you know, like from the beginning. I knew that it was endo. I knew that it was like central sensitization, but just took the right people to find the right answers. And then I had to find it in myself because it was 2020 and I had to just figure out how to heal, you know.

Julie Granger (32:45)

Yeah.

love this thread of how the story started that you knew. I actually remember when I we touched on that and you mentioned it briefly where I was like, you know, it sounds a lot like endo if you ever want to pursue that. And I it's like, from what I remember, it was like, well, I can't afford it or I don't have the insurance for it or whatever at the time, you know, which is a valid reason. And it's like you had this such a deep knowing and got into the spiral

of the being mislabeled, being inaccurately mirrored from people. And it was not only like regulating your system and calming it down and all those types of things, but I think a really important point is finding the people who are accurately mirroring you. I just saw this. I just saw this this morning. It was a meme that said

We have to heal in relationship literally everything we do, because as humans we are relational. it's like, you just have to, your system has to be open to receiving mirroring from someone else. And then your own mirror neurons do the rest to actually regulate your system. And I was like, the system regulates itself just by being in an accurately read and mirrored and attuned relationship. And isn't that so good?

Jackie Roelofs (34:19)

Yes. Oh my gosh, that's so good. I mean, it's

basics, it's so good. And I remember that conversation. I think it was like our first call. It like a discovery call.

Julie Granger (34:28)

Yeah.

Jackie Roelofs (34:30)

and to hear you mirroring or like, know, whatever, just to say like, it sounds an awful lot like endo. To have one person just hear me say like, what's going on with my body and for you to say like, yeah, duh, that's exactly what it sounds like. I don't know, like, hey, I think I have endo. I just was like, here's my symptoms. I was thinking that in the back of my head, but I was like starting to gaslight myself because I had been gassed so much, you know. So

Julie Granger (34:45)

Yeah, it's the accurate

Jackie Roelofs (34:57)

So yeah, I mean, we, we, and I feel like in my PT practice and my coaching practice, whether I'm putting my hands on somebody or not, I feel like the work is so much more facilitating. Like if we're, trying to heal a body, it's, it's facilitating the changes the body is already trying to make. Like my body was trying so hard to heal, but it couldn't quite access that. and I don't know, you know, like, again, there was a lot of pieces to that, but I just feel like any kind of.

Julie Granger (35:13)

Yes.

Jackie Roelofs (35:24)

any kind of movement is like, we need to find the right thing. And that's what, you know, doctors of physical therapy are for. Like, we're finding the right dosage of medicine that your body needs of whatever kind of medicine that is to facilitate your body's ability to heal, which your body already knows how to do. And we lose trust in that when we go through these like journeys of like, what the hell is going on with my body? I feel betrayed by that, like those kinds of strong words.

Julie Granger (35:31)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jackie Roelofs (35:52)

It's like, okay, it's a disconnection and a disconnection and soon enough you just like don't even feel like your body is your own anymore at all. And obviously that has so many parallels with all the things, but ⁓ just yeah, I mean.

Julie Granger (36:04)

all the things. You don't know which way is up. You can't,

there are all these disconnections from your intuition and you came back to yourself bit by bit to that knowing, to that intuition, to that self leadership, bit by bit. know, sometimes the world threw you COVID. Sometimes it was finally having the resource to do something. It was all the doors getting closed.

in jobs that might have kept you in those same six cycles, you know? And gosh, like, we like, wow, thank you, universe, for that. And also, it probably didn't feel great at the time, you know?

Jackie Roelofs (36:41)

Yeah, it felt horrible at the time.

Julie Granger (36:43)

Yeah,

I'm guessing. I mean, I was there along the way and I know it didn't feel good.

Jackie Roelofs (36:45)

But yeah, definitely,

yeah, I feel like just seeing, you know, it's like seeing like these pieces of my story kind of coming to like where I am now. And of course I'm like working through things in my story that I'm living right now. But just seeing like, wow, like, okay, I can look back on that story. Be like, not only did I get out of it, but I like, it's not just like, I didn't get out of the situation only, but like healed from, you know, like what all.

Julie Granger (37:11)

Mm-hmm.

Jackie Roelofs (37:13)

meant to me. I don't know if I'm explaining that well, but it just feels like...

Julie Granger (37:16)

You're good. Well, it

can't have meaning until you're on the other side, know, enough on the other side for you to go, that's why that happened.

Jackie Roelofs (37:20)

Right.

Yeah, and like I said, even literally just conversations I have with my clients now, or even when I started to realize like, oh, I'm having a lot of clients that have like similar symptoms to me. And I didn't realize that I was not, I literally thought I was the only one in the entire world who was like experiencing symptoms like I was. I know.

Julie Granger (37:42)

Is that

not healing for you too? Yeah.

Jackie Roelofs (37:44)

It's so healing.

Not that I need it, you know, it's like I don't want to be like I'm like grasping onto this to like take energy from my patients and my clients, but It is healing like you said in relationships we heal and so little pieces that I get from all of those interactions are really helpful

Julie Granger (37:51)

Now get it.

Hoi!

It's like this passing of the baton of healing, but we never, I'm picturing like this chain, like a daisy chain almost of people. And like you were mirrored by the right people at the right times that helped you come back to yourself and let your body, your nervous system, your soul do all the levels of healing it needed to do, that it was wired and ready to do on its own. And then,

because of that accurate mirroring. But you're also now passing that on to other people. You're accurately mirroring them based on your own experience. But then they're mirroring back to you. So it's this reciprocal. What we were saying earlier, it's not the one or one above the other. It's we're all equal here and on the same level playing field, walking each other through life. like

you're getting those old parts of you that you've brought forth that were gaslit that didn't trust intuition, they continue to live in you and they're getting that affirmation from the people that you're now helping that are in that stage of the journey that those parts were in.

Jackie Roelofs (38:57)

Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah, and there's like sometimes where you feel like that, like there's, I guess that like there's like pieces like physically of like, I feel like there's, know, but also, then I went on and I had two babies. And so I'm like healing from that too, while I'm also still kind of like working on that last like 10 to 15 % of that healing experience. But you know, I feel like even just like comparing like my first birth experience to my second. ⁓

Julie Granger (39:30)

Mm-hmm.

Jackie Roelofs (39:31)

which we can talk about or not talk about, but just traumatic birth first time to the listeners. Pretty traumatic birth first time ⁓ to doing a lot of healing work around that.

Julie Granger (39:38)

Mm-hmm.

Jackie Roelofs (39:43)

especially in my second pregnancy and like having some fears around giving birth again. And just even though that wasn't like, it wasn't like I had this like, pain-free birth experience and like complete redemption. I remember telling my midwife, like after my second birth, I was like, I feel healed. literally, like, I don't even know how to describe it, but like, I feel like that left my body and I needed to go through this other birth for that trauma to leave my body.

Julie Granger (40:10)

Mm.

Jackie Roelofs (40:11)

And so I almost feel like that like almost like what I'm doing now is like the rest of that story that we've been talking about like the end of the back pain and like all of that it's like it's trying to leave my body now and I'm like that's like the middle that I'm in right now.

compounded by postpartum and caring for babies and not sleeping and all the pelvic floor stuff that comes with giving birth twice and being pregnant twice. But yeah, so I'm rambling a bit, but I feel like it's all kind of connected as I'm seeing it now. ⁓

Julie Granger (40:43)

Yeah,

well, it still comes back to that original thread of intuitively listening to your why, which was, want to, I hate the word optimize, but that's just the word that's coming out of my mouth. I want to set myself up for success with fertility. And you did, and you have, and part of fertility is not just getting pregnant, it's going through the whole process. And you've...

now been through the whole process twice now. The first one being topsy-turvy, to put it lightly, and the second one being redemptive of the first. It's almost like the first was redemptive of the process of getting there, and now you're picking up the pieces of the process of getting there. Am I summarizing what you just said?

Jackie Roelofs (41:14)

Yes.

Yeah,

picking up the pieces feels about right. And it just feels like I think, you know, again, when it's just you or like just you and your partner or whatever, like, there's not as many pieces to pick up. Like it was still a lot of pieces. But like I feel like now with like the life that I am living right now.

Julie Granger (41:34)

Yeah.

Jackie Roelofs (41:48)

It feels a little more complex because there's just so many pieces, you know, like there's so many, so many threads, so many like variables that I really can't control, unfortunately. So just learning that, I mean, we want to talk about like the summary of all of this is like, you know, something we've talked about many times of like, there's like the strategy, like the optimization, and then there's surrender.

Julie Granger (41:53)

so many pieces. yeah.

Jackie Roelofs (42:13)

And most of us need to work more on the surrender piece. I think the lesson I keep learning is it's like you can do all of the right things. And just the outcome is not.

Julie Granger (42:17)

Yes.

Jackie Roelofs (42:25)

It's not up to me. So, and that is a constant frustration that I have learned in many different lessons in many different ways. So, yeah, motherhood will definitely do that to you, but.

Julie Granger (42:33)

Yeah.

Well,

that's a really good segue. So it's like your body, your process of coming back to your intuition, that beautiful inner guidance, that always correct knowing, finding it, like your process of coming back to knowing which way is up in your own little individual @drjuicyjackie world is what we were just talking about, right? It's the spiritual reclamation of that divine inner knowing.

Jackie Roelofs (42:53)

Mm-hmm.

Julie Granger (43:06)

What a beautiful story. And then, oh, by the way, the whole, thing that it was about all along was relationship with, you know, being a mother. That's, again, that was the thread, which is not just about you at that point.

Jackie Roelofs (43:22)

Yeah,

yeah. And the crazy thing is, it's like, I go back into that journey, I'm like, oh yeah, that was all about where I am now. That was all about becoming a mother. From like age 20, when I asked the doctor, is this gonna be problematic if I ever wanna have kids? And they're like, oh, don't worry about that. We've got medicine for that now, just come back. You wanna get pregnant? So yeah, I mean, the whole thread.

Julie Granger (43:34)

Yeah.

I'm so glad you're...

Jackie Roelofs (43:48)

was about motherhood, which is like a calling that I have apparently. That's what it was all about that. And I had to go through a lot more hoops than I thought to get there.

Julie Granger (43:54)

I have apparently.

So tell

me about that reckoning of, okay, well, I did all of this in service to this calling for motherhood. And now that I'm in it.

What also has needed to be reckoned with in your identity shift? This isn't just for Jackie's body. This is for something bigger. Not just like health-wise, but you being a mother, a parent to not just one, but two.

Jackie Roelofs (44:21)

Yes.

Yeah, okay, identity shift. I'm gonna take that little by little.

That is like the biggest, and it's funny, I've gone through this twice now, and I feel like it's been more intense the second time around. I mean, you know, the challenge is double, but I also feel like I have not been blessed with the easiest little kiddos. They are the most precious, and we have had some challenges with both of them, and that usually equates to less sleep than the

Julie Granger (44:44)

Yeah.

Jackie Roelofs (45:01)

average person, which is already like not a lot of sleep if you're a parent of little. So yeah, identity shift. Where do I begin with this? I feel like there's the piece of like, in a sense, like I said, this was the calling. It was the calling all along.

Julie Granger (45:05)

Mm-hmm.

Jackie Roelofs (45:19)

and here I am in it reckoning with this thing that you know and I think a lot of moms can like relate to this I was like I wanted this and yet this is so fucking hard.

⁓ And this is, there are pieces of this that are not what I thought. And there's grief in that. There is grief in the me that I used to be. I think about like pieces of myself that they're not lost. But like, you know, when people ask the question, like, what do like to do for fun? I'm like, I have no idea. I know what I used to do for fun. I know things that I would like to do for fun. But I'm like, I

Julie Granger (45:31)

Bye.

Mm-hmm.

Good question.

Jackie Roelofs (45:56)

I know, like I'm gonna try to go to the pool later for like an hour before I have to relieve my babysitter. That sounds funny. But you know, like travel and like art and like things like that. There's pieces of me that feel missing and I don't think we talk about the grief of that as much. So that's one piece. And then there's the piece of, like you said, it's bigger than yourself. And it is like a, no, like I have to,

Julie Granger (46:04)

you

Oof.

Jackie Roelofs (46:22)

have to put them like there's the whole like yeah take care of yourself but yourself first and so that you can care for others but there is like a real reality with my kids right now that I have to put them first. I have to and that's that's part of the calling. It's the beautiful thing and it is it's really hard and so that yeah that piece of like reckoning with all of the all the stuff on the internet that people are telling you to do to feel better and be healthy and come back

Julie Granger (46:32)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jackie Roelofs (46:49)

postpartum depression, you know, and then going into the other stuff that I'm, you know, doing and we'll talk about the like movement and exercise and it's like that is actually a way that like helps me feel like myself and feel better and and it's also not always a possibility. It's not always something that I get to do freely. I guess it's probably a better way to say it's like I can move my body pretty much at any time but like getting to like, you know, go swim some laps by myself.

Julie Granger (47:16)

Mm-hmm.

Jackie Roelofs (47:18)

like I might get to do that once a week if I'm lucky and if I like schedule it and I make sure that I have child care. So there is those pieces and then there's the professional like career piece of like motherhood is the calling and I do feel like this was the call like with my work right now that I'm still kind of trying to figure out is like the work is for other mothers too.

Julie Granger (47:20)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Jackie Roelofs (47:43)

feel a calling to that and like burden is not the right word, but it's like, I just feel like there is this thing that is also being birthed. Like we've talked about, like it's been gestating and it's like being birthed through me. This, this piece of like that I couldn't access before like truly like actually becoming a mom. Like even though this story was all about motherhood and like the calling to motherhood it's like, but also my calling as a, you know,

Julie Granger (47:52)

Yeah.

Hmm.

Jackie Roelofs (48:11)

in my career outside of motherhood is to help other moms who are feeling lost and whose bodies are hurting, but not just that their bodies are hurting, but it's like this body doesn't feel like my own anymore. And that's the other identity shift is like, you know, I'm breastfeed, I breastfed two babies. I've been breastfeeding or pregnant for three and a half years, more than three and a half years. And again, too, I talked to my therapist about this, like some of these

things are like I've chosen the harder way in a way. You know I chose to birth my babies at home naturally and like that's arguably that was harder. Or I think at a hospital with an epidural or having a scheduled C-section and like that like I respect like whatever people choose but that was what I chose and I had reasons for why I chose that.

Julie Granger (48:42)

Yeah.

You

Jackie Roelofs (49:01)

I choose to breastfeed my babies even though they both had struggles with breastfeeding and then, you know, like my second baby, I had to give up dairy for like, and those are things that are harder, but I also feel like they're...

Julie Granger (49:08)

Mm-hmm.

Jackie Roelofs (49:14)

They are part of the pieces that are creating this thing to give to the world and to other moms who are dealing with these things. In the context of like, know, maybe they need pelvic floor physical therapy, but they're also like, I am dying because like, I don't know what to do to get my kid to sleep at night. And it's like, well, maybe your baby doesn't respond to the mom's on call or the sleep training methods that someone taught you because they have tongue ties. like, just someone needs to tell you that like, that is a harder experience.

Julie Granger (49:31)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Jackie Roelofs (49:42)

than typical babies. Like, it's just harder. Having a kid is hard and then like there are certain circumstances that make it harder and those are choices, you know, it's like, yeah, I want to, I

Julie Granger (49:44)

Mm-hmm.

Jackie Roelofs (49:53)

baby breast milk so I choose that. And I also think I could have chosen something different that maybe would have been easier but I do think like the road have chosen has informed what I am now doing. I'm like how can you find 17 minutes to like move your body and feel good in your body and feel like something of your body is your own for 17 minutes even if your toddler is crawling on you.

Julie Granger (50:13)

Yes.

Jackie Roelofs (50:18)

or like your baby, know, like how can you make your body like your own? How can you like get back in your body when everything else is like, it's like just doesn't feel possible. And then, you know, and also heal your pelvic floor after birth, you know? ⁓ Yeah.

Julie Granger (50:29)

Yeah. Okay. There is

this thread that I'm seeing in what you're saying, which is back to the like the meta of the becoming dysregulated about being dysregulated. I feel like part of this journey first in your own personal story is, for lack of a better phrase, like surrendering. I don't want to say regulating. I'm just going to say surrendering.

to the dysregulation itself and allowing it to inform you versus trying to stop it or fix it or pathologize it or shame it or whatever. It's like, okay, there's a surrender around the dysregulation. And then this, you said it.

Jackie Roelofs (51:04)

Yeah. Yes.

Julie Granger (51:11)

Surrendering to, well, first you said this with such surrender. I don't even know what's fun anymore. And almost like accepting that, like surrendering that, you know what? That's just not my season right now. And yet I'm also owning that there's grief there because I don't even know who I am because of that. And the surrender around, this doesn't feel like my body. And yep, well, I'm not gonna try and regulate myself around that. I'm actually just gonna own that.

Jackie Roelofs (51:23)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Julie Granger (51:40)

this is just where we're at. And my workout might look like a toddler crawling on me while I'm lying on the floor doing bridges and that's just my workout today. so it's it's de, what do we say now? De-influencing. It's like de-influencing this influencer mantra, which is you always have to be regulated.

in order to be complete, in order to be healed, in order to be evolved, in order to be a good person, a good mom, a good practitioner. And instead we're going to actually... It's like instead we're going to actually... The regulation is in the surrender to the mess. And it's okay if I don't put on my own oxygen mask first when my baby is screaming.

and cannot regulate the co-regulation. My regulation is in the co-regulation, not in showing up, singing kumbaya and being so calm and grounded. And like, that's just not the vibe that at least you're putting out there now.

Jackie Roelofs (52:44)

Yeah, yeah, it's a lot. Yeah, especially like toddler parenting right now.

That's like a whole other, like, I don't even feel like we should get into all of that, but I feel like that's like the pressure right now of like learning how to parent a toddler and being like regulated so they can be regular. And like there's like tools in that for sure that helped us. But sometimes I'm like, I actually just need to leave the room and go scream into a pillow and come back and I might still not be regular. I might need to do that 10 times. teaching my toddler how to do that because like,

Julie Granger (53:01)

Yes.

Jackie Roelofs (53:14)

Sometimes you just need to scream into a pillow. yeah, like I just, yeah, you're putting your finger on to things. There's like the grief and like you said, the regulation is in the surrender and it's like.

Julie Granger (53:17)

Right.

Jackie Roelofs (53:27)

Like an example, I'm like, I'm kind of frustrated because like I have this really good week of like I was like working out every day and I was like running a little bit and like lifting and Swam some laps and I felt so good and I was like, yeah This is so good for me. Like this was really good for my mental health amazing But also realizing like that was like a gift that I had that week and like I did prioritize time for that And then it's just been like this past week. I've been like more achy. We're like, you know, we are

Julie Granger (53:40)

Ugh. Mm-hmm.

Jackie Roelofs (53:54)

And I moved my body what I could but like I just haven't been able to be consistent and it's like again like I can teach you how to be consistent but maybe that consistency is like literally two minutes of like breathing, you know for one week and then the next week is like you left at the gym every day and then the next week is You know just going on walks. And so the consistency is different too

Julie Granger (54:16)

you're literally marching

to the beat of your drum and giving yourself permission to do that. And that's the surrender, right? Where it's like, and that's almost coming back full circle to the, here's what my intuition is saying. I feel like, I feel like shit this week. Well, I feel like shit this week. And two minutes is where we're at. And there's no judgment of that. It's, two is better than zero. And I want this and we're going to do it for two minutes. And that is complete. Next week, going to be Pump and Iron.

Jackie Roelofs (54:20)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, and it's amazing. It's great to feel like, it's also like, to be clear, like I've gotten really strong, like doing very little. And I think that's like one of the things I like try to help like moms with too, like, hey, like.

Julie Granger (54:52)

Mm-hmm.

Jackie Roelofs (54:59)

And especially the ones that are used to like having to be on our regimen And you know, they're following somebody's like Instagram program. That's like You know, they're not even necessarily professional but they've like got a decent like program like workout thing going and I'm like Yeah, but like there's something not quite right about that because you have to be consistent with it for it to work and it's like and maybe that's why it's so hard for me to figure out like what is my program because I'm like basically telling people like There it's a it's not a program

Julie Granger (55:03)

Yeah.

Jackie Roelofs (55:26)

It is a program and it's not, you know, like, it's like, I'm going to give you some exercises that I think are really going to help with your prolapse. And I'm going to help you be consistent with those. Let's figure out when you can fit them in in your day. And then also, you may not do them at all this week. And I don't want you to come back next week and feel embarrassed or ashamed, or I don't want you to not come back because you're like, oh, I still need to do my exercises before I can come back again. So.

Julie Granger (55:29)

It's the unprogrammed program.

Yeah.

It's the unprogrammed program. It's the do what you want. It's the here's a bank of options. Listen to your body and your intuition and choose from that bank of options. It's we don't we as females, especially but add in a layer of mom, you're not the one in sole control over your destiny here. And it's like this permission to go with the flow. It's permission to be seasonal and cyclical. It's permission to

Just own that part of yourself, own your truth, own you who you are, make your own fucking decisions. And be at peace with the flow. It's almost like the in and ebb and flow of it all is what's being labeled as dysregulation, but it's actually your body, your system, your soul regulating in a system that tells it, has to be the same all the time.

Jackie Roelofs (56:23)

Yeah.

Yeah.

You have to follow this program to like lose weight or be consistent or like, you know, and I think there is there's that piece of like, I don't know, we've talked about this a little bit too, like, there's also the piece of like,

There there's kind of the side of the internet small mean bounce back culture You have to do like I guess what I'm talking about is like a program that's like do this and like you're not like committed to your To your exercise program like that's the problem. It's like you're just not committed. You're not making time for it And if you really want this goal, you really want to lose the baby weight, whatever then there's this other side of the internet That's like we can't talk about Bouncing back you're not allowed to bounce back or

Julie Granger (56:57)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jackie Roelofs (57:20)

like you if you care about bouncing back and like you're just really superficial and shallow like I talked to someone yesterday who was like inquiring about working with me who was like yeah like I have all these friends that are like getting they're like getting their like what do they call mommy makeover surgeries I just like feel like you know surgery isn't the only way that I can get rid of this like this you know I feel like my tummy still looks like I'm four months pregnant and I've my youngest is three years old and she's like struggling

Julie Granger (57:36)

Mm-hmm.

Jackie Roelofs (57:49)

with the aesthetic of that. And I remember having conversation a while back of like,

Is it okay to help people with something that they see as an aesthetic problem rather than a muscular dysfunctional problem? Because she's not leaking. She can carry her kids. She's not hurting. But that is the pain for her. And I think there needs to also be this permission to be like, hey, my body doesn't look like it used to. And there's grief in that. And maybe it won't ever. But also, what if I want to try? I need to try.

Julie Granger (58:00)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Great.

it.

Jackie Roelofs (58:22)

I feel like there's so many different like yeah, just Instagram is such a It is a yeah, I love it and I hate it I do feel like there's like good community on there and that's why I try to do on it's like foster conversations But it's like there is the there's mommy bounce back that like feels really toxic and then there's also the toxic like you don't need to worry about that at all or ⁓

Julie Granger (58:29)

Mm.

So gaslighty.

Jackie Roelofs (58:46)

And you don't, yeah, everybody's gaslighting everybody. And you're allowed to feel.

the pieces of you that are missing. I'm like, yeah, feel like I'm still like chronically, like I weigh the same as I did pre-pregnancy, but like I'm still look like I'm like chronically bloated and like I'm frustrated by that. You know, I to like get in a bathing suit and like feel like my tummy's flat like I was when I was 25. And like, I don't know could feel that way while also recognizing like, wow, look what I just did. I just like grew and birthed and fed two babies in a short amount of time. So it

Julie Granger (59:02)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. You're allowed to feel that way. Yes.

Jackie Roelofs (59:22)

be all of that but yeah I think we need more permission to feel what we feel about this. And not being judged as being shallow if you like care about that.

Julie Granger (59:27)

What a concept.

If care about your insides matching your outsides, or your outsides matching your insides rather, you know, I think that that's valid. And I mean, it's so funny, like the world tells women care, care, care, care, care. That's your like mommy bounce back culture or just woman aesthetic culture in general. And then you've got that other polarized extreme, which is don't care, don't care, don't care. You're worthy. Like it doesn't matter what you look like. That doesn't define you. Both can be true.

Jackie Roelofs (59:34)

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Julie Granger (1:00:00)

and it's somewhere in the middle. And, you know, that's where the truth really is. And what I love is when we're polarized, that's where the dysregulation comes because both of those are such rigid ways of being. And when you actually come into the middle, again, it's becoming like surrendered and regulated around being a little bit, you know,

or a lot of it irritated about your aesthetic and surrendered and regulated around wanting to let it all go and be like, I shouldn't care, you know, all that. Yeah.

Jackie Roelofs (1:00:32)

Yes,

wanting to care less and then also grieving the pieces, grieving the different pieces that may be lost forever, you know.

Julie Granger (1:00:41)

Yeah,

right, right.

Jackie Roelofs (1:00:43)

Because I think it's also like, you know, it's a reflection of what's actually happening in your bigger life as a mom. There's a lot that we're grieving. I think sometimes it's like, it is nice to like hold onto this, like I said, like even just exercising for 10 minutes without anyone touching me. Like that feels like I'm holding, I'm like getting to hold myself for a second and be my own for a second. As much as I love nursing my baby, I'm like, I am so touched out. Like I cannot,

Julie Granger (1:00:57)

Yes.

Jackie Roelofs (1:01:11)

I mean like sometimes I just get really like overstimulated even when I'm like sitting on the couch with my toddler He's just like kind of he's just like moving a lot. I'm like, bro Can you just like let me cuddle you or like leave me alone? And I'm like, oh yeah, like I'm just touched out I want something that is my own and I can't have that right now. I can't fully have that and that's okay That's just my season but I think that's also why as moms like we do kind of clean like there are

Julie Granger (1:01:24)

Fair.

Jackie Roelofs (1:01:41)

these like you know physical goals or like things that we desire mainly because we want to hold on to a piece of ourselves that feels like very inaccessible feels like it's missing maybe gone forever you know

Julie Granger (1:01:54)

Wow.

Well, that sounds like you just nailed it. That's the work you're doing is helping moms hold onto or rediscover or uncover that piece of themselves by whatever means necessary, whether it's movement, whether it's more holistic support. And if nothing else, it's just holding space for all of it and being like, all of this is fine. We're fine.

There is no have to or should, or you need to do, like you get to listen to almost like holding, shining that light on someone else's intuitive wants and desires and dislikes and all of those things and being like, that is all correct. You're actually the one who's right. And I am just here to help bring you back to that.

Amazing. Okay. I want to just highlight that this is so beautiful that it's showing up in your work and that you're owning that. It doesn't have to be perfect and complete and fit into any one box. The people who have the eyes to see it and the ears to hear it are going to know what you're saying. Right. And the intrigue. So again, y'all go follow @drjuicyjackie on Instagram and

Get in there, get some support. Okay, but one thing I want to just segue into when you're like, I just want to have this piece of myself that I want to highlight and dig into is you fairly soon after having your second did something very you that you were very anxious about that required you to leave your baby.

and go to the Ares tour, which is a very important piece of you. Speaking of fun, I know I didn't actually plan on this until like five minutes before I sat down and I looked at a friendship bracelet on my desk and I was like, this needs to come in because I feel like...

Jackie Roelofs (1:03:28)

Yes. I'm the dog that we're talking about.

Julie Granger (1:03:41)

I want you to tell the story of like deciding to go to that you had long decided before, but like I know you were struggling with that decision to even go. And then how it was, how it turned out for you. So talk us through that.

Jackie Roelofs (1:03:49)

Yeah.

my gosh, Julie. I like almost feel like I could like cry. I have some tears, thinking back to those early days with River, my baby.

It was so hard. When I say we were given some hard cards to deal with, and it looks like lot of things that pediatricians would say, they'll grow out of this or they're colicky, whatever. My child was sleeping 45 minutes at a time at night, and then he would be up for an hour or two trying to settle because he was so uncomfortable. And nursing was unhelpful because it would calm him down and then he would be really uncomfortable because of all the digestion.

Julie Granger (1:04:06)

Yeah.

Jackie Roelofs (1:04:31)

of discomfort and we would start the process over. So that's what sleep looked like for the first like three months. And I was telling Matt, my husband, the other day, I look back on that time because we have friends come visit us from Atlanta that we had like planned to go with like a year before before I'd even conceived River. ⁓ And I look back on that weekend with like sadness and grief because I was in such a bad state. Like I was.

Julie Granger (1:04:50)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Jackie Roelofs (1:04:58)

not okay. and I had like a panic attack that day. Cause like, mean, I just remember like holding my child in my arms and like, was screaming and I couldn't get him to, this is the whole conversation we can have too about motherhood of like the shame of feeling like, like I'm trying to trust my intuition and like my baby just needs me. And like, I can't get this baby to, to settle. cannot. And I felt like such a failure. I called it bad mom city.

because it wasn't about, I knew I could say that I wasn't a bad mom, but like it was like the spiral of like hearing literally bad mom, bad.

Julie Granger (1:05:26)

Ha!

Yes.

Yes.

Jackie Roelofs (1:05:35)

So that's Bad Mom City. I was in Bad Mom City all the time. Maybe it's down below. Yeah, okay, that's great. Yeah. Yeah, so I was, yeah.

Julie Granger (1:05:38)

I feel like that needs to be the title of this episode. So y'all look out for that. might be. Or like a band name, Bad Mom City USA.

Jackie Roelofs (1:05:47)

city USA all the time and I had a panic attack that day. like but like yeah the week leading up to it was like okay like I had loved him once for like a couple hours that same week and and it was like fine but I just I had I mean looking back I'm like yeah there was like a chemical imbalance in my brain I had like pretty bad postpartum anxiety postpartum depression and I knew that I wanted to go to the concert but I was just kind of thinking I kept being like okay my escape plan is I can just uber home if I need to.

Julie Granger (1:06:10)

Mm-hmm

Jackie Roelofs (1:06:17)

I'll just Uber home. I'm just gonna go and I'm gonna Uber home. But yeah, it was, I look back on that weekend with grief because I like wanted it to be like so good. And the concert, when I got there, like I needed that. just screamed, singed to every single song and I had been to the concert before so I like knew what was coming. I just had the best time. And like my friend Katie was there with me from Atlanta and like we just, had, and actually both of our husbands came.

Julie Granger (1:06:30)

Hmm.

Jackie Roelofs (1:06:44)

They weren't like, you know, they are not as big as Swifties. They were like happy to be there and like have some brohangs but like Katie and I are just like scream singing. We had such a good time. And I remember like it was that night. It was crazy. We got back at like, I don't know, 2, 3 a.m. I was like, I'm just kind of prepared to be up the rest of the night with the baby. And miraculously he slept like a four hour stretch. So I got like four hours of sleep and it was like the best sleep I had gotten in months. And I needed.

Julie Granger (1:06:47)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Jackie Roelofs (1:07:14)

Yeah, there's something about speaking of movement. There's something about you know, just move your body You know all the somatic people are talking about like shaking your body and like whatever and I'm like, well duh

That makes so much

Julie Granger (1:07:26)

Yes.

Jackie Roelofs (1:07:26)

sense because dancing, like, so yeah, that was, it was really good. And I feel like Taylor Swift always meets me. I mean, we've talked about this, like she has met me in every season of my life that I have needed something like, you know, in 1989 came out like in a season of like kind of depression for me when I needed a pop out. She kind of switched over to pop and everyone was not happy about it. And I was like, hell yeah, Taylor, like let's go. Like the soundtrack of like my life for that season. And I needed it.

Julie Granger (1:07:44)

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jackie Roelofs (1:07:56)

so badly and so like it was just kind of like that full circle moment too of like man she's really showing up for me when I need her she doesn't even know it but she is showing up for me and yeah like long story short the concert was great and I'm glad that I went and I but I still like I look back on that that time such like man that was a really fucking hard time and I was really really struggling and I just you know I'm really glad

Julie Granger (1:08:12)

So tender.

Jackie Roelofs (1:08:23)

I went to the concert and had some fun because I needed to do that and it was also just like it's like devastating to me that it was that you know that's how I knew I was depressed because like that whole week leading up I was like Taylor Swift's coming into town and I've got tickets to go and I really couldn't care less like I couldn't care less so yeah grief sorrow and joy like all of that together yeah

Julie Granger (1:08:46)

You had such capacity to hold it all, even if at the time you didn't feel like you did. Like, what a testament to motherhood that like it cracks you open, right? Not that I know I don't have human children, but like, and it shows you that you have way more capacity than you think by stretching you all the way to the ends of that capacity.

Jackie Roelofs (1:08:58)

Yeah.

Julie Granger (1:09:06)

Yeah.

Jackie Roelofs (1:09:06)

Yeah,

there's a...

Yeah. And that's like, you know, I tell my clients too, like you had to be so resilient, whether they've experienced motherhood or not. just feel like that's something that I have to say a lot because I work with a lot of people who have trauma and in various forms and just like, wow, like you, you had to, you had to be resilient and that's a certain type of strong. And then there's the other strong that's like flowing, like, you know, you reach the point of you can flow with those waves. But like kind of for a lot of us, we've kind

Julie Granger (1:09:34)

Yeah.

Jackie Roelofs (1:09:37)

I've

gotten to this point in our lives of like just by having to be a certain type of strong and like get through the shit that like we had to get through, you know? So I had to be that kind of strong in early postpartum. And you know, compounded by the fact that I was like really excited about it being an easier postpartum because I was like, I've done this before.

Julie Granger (1:09:45)

Yes.

Jackie Roelofs (1:09:55)

Reed was really hard baby and and then River ended up being an even harder like newborn at least. He's like so much easier now but yeah that added like whiplash of like damn I thought this was supposed to be like I thought this was gonna be easier. I feel like a little bit.

Julie Granger (1:10:04)

Mm-hmm.

Ugh.

Jackie Roelofs (1:10:14)

Yeah, I feel a little bit whiplash from that and just like, man, did I really get like hoodwinked like that? I really thought that like, man, I got pranked, you know? ⁓ Yeah, got pranked a big time. And so.

Julie Granger (1:10:21)

I had winked.

You've punked. You've been punked. For sure. Well, that feels

like it would bring its own grief when your reality doesn't meet the expectation. There's that plus just all of the pieces of, I don't know, what we might call garden variety, postpartum grief, motherhood grief, all the things we've talked about. Plus, like you said, it's like there's the normal hard and then there's the circumstances that get piled on that are even harder. Gosh, I see you.

Jackie Roelofs (1:10:54)

Yeah, I think well also just the fact that I had such a bad like I had like a what I would call a magical birth like it wasn't like, you know, it wasn't easy wasn't pain free or anything. But it like it was like, I'm like a birth goddess and my like, this like I like love my birth. And I loved like my first week postpartum I say is like the best week of my life. It's like the week that the one week of my life that I've given myself the most permission to just have people wait on me hand and foot and to just rest.

Julie Granger (1:11:07)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Jackie Roelofs (1:11:24)

on top of like, you know, all of the like oxytocin and everything, like just riding the wave of, you know, those like yummy like postpartum.

Julie Granger (1:11:32)

Mm-hmm.

Jackie Roelofs (1:11:32)

Week one and even week two were like pretty magical. And so yeah, there was like a very clear shift like at week two when things started to get very, very hard. So yeah, I felt a little bit like, was I really that naive that I thought this was gonna be like easier? And yeah, so again, planning for postpartum, one of the things that I help my clients with. I did all the right things in planning for that and it still was really,

Julie Granger (1:11:41)

Went sideways.

you

Jackie Roelofs (1:11:58)

really hard and I did things differently with my you know with the oral ties and stuff that we dealt with we did things differently and still was really really really hard and so there's surrender in that too and also it's like it is what it is and also like it's not fair that I had to experience that and also it sucks I feel sad that I felt so sad

Julie Granger (1:12:09)

Isn't there?

Yeah, yeah. There's surrender

in the grief or the grief almost proceeds the surrender. It's like a little circle, right? That they go together. You've got to almost like crack it open. Like in order to go, well, the only way to this through this is to it or to the other side is through the grief itself. Yeah. Yeah, right.

Jackie Roelofs (1:12:23)

God.

Yeah.

Yeah, and that's like birth to you know to

that point we're like this was a bad idea Why did I think I wanted to do this again? And usually at that point you're like getting pretty close, but like it's ⁓ you know it's like you just you have at that point It's like okay. You just got to do the thing ⁓

Julie Granger (1:12:49)

Yeah. Yeah.

You're in it now.

Jackie Roelofs (1:12:56)

Yeah,

and it's interesting we're talking about grief because that has come up so much in my conversations with clients recently. Everything from like, know, I have somebody who's going through chronic pelvic pain after 15, 16 months postpartum, after a pretty traumatic birth, and somebody else who's never given birth, but she has extremely pain within her course. just like, we've been talking about like, I think we need to, before we even move into anything physical, we need to name

The grief. We need to name, like, let's just make a bullet point list. Like, what are you grieving? Like, you know, my postpartum mom is grieving, like, her friend invited her on a walk and she's like, I don't think I can go because, like, I'm so tired of feeling like, you know, she's like five months postpartum and I'm 15 months and she can like run and she can like walk like 10, you know, going to hike for like 10 miles. And, and I am just like, still like afraid to like go to work and like have to stand for more than an hour.

And it's just like, yeah, that sucks. We need to cry about that. If you have tears, it's okay to not have tears, you know what I mean? It's yeah, in my own journey, like realizing like, yeah, like I really need to, and I am, you I have been through that grief process and it's also something that still like clearly like strikes a chord. If someone asked me about the Eras tour, I'm like, in a way I could cry because it was so good, you know, but also like I could cry because that time in my life was so hard.

Julie Granger (1:14:00)

Yeah, right.

hurts so good. Well, I love, again, it's like this acceptance and acknowledgement and surrender to the grief and just making it okay to be there. And as we all know, grief doesn't just go away with one good cry. It's always going to be with you. And there's so many layers to that. And I love that you're offering that up.

for your own clients now like that, well, let's just name this. And it's okay if you don't cry. And it's okay if you don't even wanna go further than naming it, if that's as far as your system is able to hold, you know? And that's a beautiful testament to your own journey with it.

Jackie Roelofs (1:14:57)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Julie Granger (1:14:59)

All right, on the note of Tay, the Eras tour, you mentioned 1989. It's time to transition into our rapid fire round. Anyway, lightning round. And I don't ask everyone this question, so we're gonna start with all time top album, go. You gotta pick one, you gotta pick one.

Jackie Roelofs (1:15:04)

Yes. Yeah.

Yeah, okay. Love it. Love it.

you

This is really hard because like I want to say I'm like I mean I think it's 1989 if I have to just pick like I'm like I'm like I want

Julie Granger (1:15:23)

I know.

You have to pick.

Yeah, I know. Yeah.

Jackie Roelofs (1:15:31)

through

and through. I'll claim it.

Julie Granger (1:15:33)

Okay. As a follow up to that to help your neurodivergent brain that can't pick, mine too. What's your current album? What's your current soundtrack for today? Like if you had to pick one album for today, what is it?

Jackie Roelofs (1:15:43)

Yes.

Yeah, one all for today.

I'm stuck between folklore and red. I think it's folklore though. I think it's folklore and I think some of that too is like for some reason like the sad summer. Sad summer is folklore. It came out when I was like looking for jobs after PT school and I was like what the heck and you know my son was born in August so like I always get to like have August as my...

Julie Granger (1:15:50)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jackie Roelofs (1:16:09)

theme song but yeah I think the folklore is like where I'm at right now. Sad summer. But also you know we're not like yeah.

Julie Granger (1:16:16)

Little bit of red.

Love that. Okay. Favorite era at the Ares tour.

Jackie Roelofs (1:16:23)

So I gotta think about this. I'm like, I'm going through like the visual like soundtrack in my brain. Cause you know, they didn't have the tortured poet's apartment. first time I saw it. Okay. You know what? Honestly though, I will say, I told you that was really quick. Okay. We're good. don't put a giant map.

Julie Granger (1:16:30)

Haha

You got to see it the second time. I know.

It did it! It fell! Yes. We were waiting for that to happen.

you

Jackie Roelofs (1:16:48)

book on a I mean what is it an iMac on a soft surface

Julie Granger (1:16:52)

For people who are

only listening and not watching her desktop screen just fell.

Jackie Roelofs (1:16:59)

Um, okay, can you remind me of the question again? Oh, at the Eras tour. Okay, it's gotta be Evermore.

Julie Granger (1:17:01)

Favorite era at the arrows tour.

Ooooo

Jackie Roelofs (1:17:07)

And I will say this, I don't know what she did in her Europe tour, like when you went if it already had tortured poets apartment in it or not. Okay, so in the original set, there was an Evermore and there was a folklore and that is my only beef with adding the tortured poets apartment because I really liked both and I didn't love it combined and I respected it, but Evermore was so good. It was so good. I still like

Julie Granger (1:17:15)

It did. Yeah.

Yes. ⁓

You

Yeah.

Jackie Roelofs (1:17:35)

like the costumes, like the witchy costumes and like the, that is like, still haven't done that for Halloween, but like, I want to do that.

Julie Granger (1:17:38)

orbs. Yep.

That'd be so you. That's so good. I feel like I need to answer these questions in respect again and in mirroring so top album of all time.

Jackie Roelofs (1:17:44)

Yeah.

Julie Granger (1:17:51)

I had to pick one. This one's really hard actually. You're right. ⁓ Yes.

Jackie Roelofs (1:17:56)

Can I guess?

Okay. I wanna guess.

Fearless?

Julie Granger (1:18:02)

No. Love it, but no.

It's a bit of a sleeper. Red's number two.

Jackie Roelofs (1:18:08)

See, I wanted to guess torture post-per because that was like, you got to experience the release of an album. But I don't think that's it either. Okay, I'm done guessing, you can tell me. Lover!

Julie Granger (1:18:13)

That's the only album I've experienced a release of as a Swiftie.

That's... Lover.

Every time I listen to Lover, I'm like, damn, this is a really good one. It's just got a little of everything in there and...

Jackie Roelofs (1:18:27)

It's so good.

special for me too. lot of people like weren't into it. Lover came out when I was in my like rotations in BT school and that was like people we were working together too and I was like long distance from my husband for like three months and I just and I was like in all that pain and so like I would go to Planet Fitness and try to move my body after my clinicals and and I would listen to Lover and she again like I said she just had me when I needed when I needed a Taylor Swift like pop album.

Julie Granger (1:18:59)

Yep. Yep. That one's such a sleeper because it never got its own tour. And I feel like, because it came out right before COVID and like, I don't know that because I wasn't a Swiftie at the time, but I can really see that it's not the one at the top of the chart. But I feel like every time I listen to them, like every song on here is golden. Like the lyrics of them are so good too, that it's really, really good.

Jackie Roelofs (1:19:00)

Yeah.

Thanks.

It's really...

Julie Granger (1:19:27)

So that would be my top album of all time. Current soundtrack, Red, 100%. Current soundtrack is Red. Top era at the Eras Tour.

Jackie Roelofs (1:19:33)

Love it.

Julie Granger (1:19:37)

Folk more, I think. Cause it was combined. I only saw it in Europe and then in Canada.

Jackie Roelofs (1:19:41)

Okay. Yeah,

was really good. It was so really good, but I felt like having them differentiated really liked.

Julie Granger (1:19:49)

yeah. Yeah.

Well, I saw the movie before I went and I did like, I've seen it. Yeah. I loved the tortured poets era in the tour without a doubt. And I almost feel like, cause I saw it in the first place that she performed it in Paris. I almost feel like I was too soon after the album released to really take it in.

Jackie Roelofs (1:19:53)

Yes. So you've seen that. You've seen that. I can't forget to watch it. I'm going have to watch it soon.

good.

Julie Granger (1:20:17)

live on the tour, but I'm grateful that I went to Canada months later and got to see it again because I felt like it landed differently. It really hit different. Yeah, it's different. Oh, all right. Well, @drjuicyjackie , we need to do a whole episode on.

Jackie Roelofs (1:20:23)

Yeah, mm-hmm. It's different.

I forgot about,

I forgot about Midnights. I don't know, I almost want to say Midnights, but whatever.

Julie Granger (1:20:38)

Such a good, that's

another one that when I listen to just the, I have all the vinyls, when I listen to that vinyl, I'm like, there isn't anything on here that I don't like. So good. Yeah.

Jackie Roelofs (1:20:45)

It's so good. It came out right before Reed's birth and so I remember listening to that.

We had just moved to New Orleans. Every album has its own special memories.

Julie Granger (1:20:55)

Yes, yes.

I appreciate that our little rapid fire round doesn't include any of my traditional rapid fire questions. There's gonna be Swifty rapid fire. So good. All right, I have one more question for you. If you could whisper one thing to maybe two things, let's give you two, to that version of you who was embarking on this.

Jackie Roelofs (1:21:01)

I love it.

Sure.

Julie Granger (1:21:18)

taking care of herself in service to fertility journey, who was starting to like really sink into that spiral. What would you whisper to her?

Jackie Roelofs (1:21:26)

Hmm.

It's a tie between like trust yourself and you're not alone.

Julie Granger (1:21:31)

Hmm.

Jackie Roelofs (1:21:32)

mean, the obvious is you're gonna get through this. I needed to hear that for sure, but.

Trust yourself.

And that follows the thread through all of this, you know? All of this, like, the grief and the loss of motherhood and, like, feeling lost in my career at many points. That's, something I need to whisper to myself right now. So, yeah.

Julie Granger (1:21:39)

Holy yes.

Mm-hmm.

And that you're not alone, because how many times in this podcast alone were you like looking around and going, am I the only person? I can't be the only person, but I guess I feel like I am. Mm-hmm. Short, sweet, wise words. Trust yourself, and you're not alone. Amazing. That's the message of the bad mom city USA.

Jackie Roelofs (1:22:15)

City USA. Come join

us.

Julie Granger (1:22:17)

That's going to be the next tour. We're to start a band and Bad Mom City USA is going on tour. Love it.

Jackie Roelofs (1:22:23)

feel like I'm gonna have to do something with that as part of my brand.

Julie Granger (1:22:27)

yeah, I'm here for that.

Jackie Roelofs (1:22:30)

monthly

membership to that monthly. I don't know what the membership includes, you know. We'll workshop it.

Julie Granger (1:22:33)

⁓

Gonna sit around and cry together?

This will be great. I'm waiting for this voice memo. Send me a voice memo and we'll work through it. All right, well, thank you for being here and sharing your story and sharing the hard stuff, of course. Y'all go follow Dr. Juicy Jack on Instagram. What is it? DrJackieJoy.com.

Jackie Roelofs (1:22:48)

Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. This was fun. I enjoyed it.

DrJakiJoy.com, I do actually own the domain DrJussieJackie.com now, but funny story about that. When I first became DrJussieJackie, I changed my handle on Instagram and turns out DrJussieJackie will lead you to some X-rated sites.

Julie Granger (1:23:14)

Yeah,

Jackie Roelofs (1:23:15)

if you

Julie Granger (1:23:15)

yeah.

Jackie Roelofs (1:23:15)

Google it at the time. But now if you Google @drjuicyjackie , I'm the one that comes up. so I bought the domain @drjuicyjackie just so I can own it. so yeah, but Dr. Jackie Joy is my official website at the time, drjackiejoy.com. Easy to spell. But yeah, @drjuicyjackie , you can find me on Instagram.

Julie Granger (1:23:25)

you

Amazing. And then be on the lookout for your podcast. Maybe that's the name of your podcast, Bad Mom City USA.

Jackie Roelofs (1:23:41)

my gosh, hell yeah. my gosh, actually, yeah. I'm gonna rank that one up high in the options that I have right now. So, yeah.

Julie Granger (1:23:45)

Yeah.

Okay. Breaking news, guys. You heard it here.

This is where it was born. Commemorate this moment here on June 18th. All right.

Jackie Roelofs (1:23:59)

Okay,

yeah, now this is gonna give me something to think about.

Julie Granger (1:24:02)

Awesome. All right, well, good luck. We'll have to have you back. Y'all tune in.

Jackie Roelofs (1:24:05)

Hey, yeah,

okay, bye.

Julie Granger (1:24:08)

Thanks for joining me on this episode of Sink and

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