Tell Me More with Dr. Ashley Martinez: On getting broken open, the body that never lies...and how both become your greatest practitioner tool

Ashley Martinez is a women's health pelvic floor PT, integrative nutrition health coach, single mom, and highly sensitive person who spent years leading with her credentials — until life made that impossible.

In this episode, Ashley shares her story publicly for the first time: the deployment, the divorce, the infidelities on both sides, the church that excommunicated her, the family that demanded achievement in exchange for love, and the body that quietly kept score through it all. What emerged on the other side wasn't a redemption arc with a bow on it. It was something messier and more honest — a woman who stopped trying to be righteous and started getting curious.

We talk about what it really means to create healing space for patients (hint: it starts way before the intake form), why your symptoms are your body speaking and not your identity, the difference between a groove and actual health, and what happens when you finally stop running from the uncomfortable thing and just... sit in it.

This one went beautiful places. Come ready to feel something.

00:00 — The Ick Factor of Polished People
16:50 — Floor to Flourishing: The First Three Years of Single Motherhood
29:14 — There Are No Villains Here
34:02 — Boundaries Are Between Me and Me
47:06 — Your Body Was Always Speaking
58:46 — Stop Making Your Diagnosis Your Identity
01:00:39 — What She'd Whisper to Her Younger Self

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Transcript

Julie Granger (00:58)
Hey there, I'm really glad you're here in the Sink and Swim podcast. Before we get into today's episode, a little housekeeping. I wanna help you get oriented just so you know where you are, how the space works, and how to take care of yourself while you're listening. So first, a gentle invitation. As you listen or watch, see if you can listen not only with your ears or watch with your eyes.

but also by noticing what's going on inside your body. And that may change throughout the whole episode. And as you notice permission to know you don't need to fix anything, you don't need to analyze it, but just notice it. Some parts of you might feel seen. Some might feel exposed. Some parts might feel resistance or concern.

about what we're saying. Other parts might feel relief, encouragement, or they might want to reach through and help us or hug me if it's just me talking.

So notice how you feel as you settle in, whether you're listening in a quiet place or out on a walk or driving or in the middle of something.

and also how you feel when you're done.

That noticing is really sacred work.

And after you listen to the episode and notice, if you find yourself feeling the tug to stay connected to me or to the podcast or to any of my guests, please make sure to check the show notes and also make sure to subscribe to the podcast wherever you're listening right now. Now is a great time to go hit that subscribe button. And I'm not asking that for numbers, but because it lets the episodes find you,

without you having to remember or keep track. And if you like having something you can read or revisit or sit with more slowly, you can also subscribe to my newsletter and that's in the show notes as well.

You can also find clips and highlights on YouTube, Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, and Facebook. All different platforms, different doorways to the same house. So choose whatever feels easiest for you. At any point today, later, or months from now, if something in you starts whispering, you know, I feel this nudge inside.

My life or my work looks really good on paper. Everything I've built should feel good, but that's not how I feel. And sometimes that can be a sign that it's time for deeper support and reorientation. And that's where working with me in a soul story mapping session comes in. It's a private one-on-one session, not a discovery call, not a sales conversation. It's an actual coaching space.

to map what's true for you right now and get clear on what wants to shift. Even if you don't do anything with it, we're just gonna map it out. All of the links to all of those things live in the show notes, so you don't have to hold any of this in your head, but I'm saying it now to orient you in case you're listening and something comes up and you wanna know where to go next. Okay, let's drop into today's episode now.

Julie Granger (03:56)
I want to ask you something before we get going. When was the last time that someone asked you, and I mean really asked you, how you were actually feeling? I don't mean a form that you filled out in the waiting room and at an appointment. I don't mean when the cashier at the checkout counter of the grocery store said, how are you? I don't mean

the way you answer it reflexively, I'm great, before you even process the question that someone asked you. I'm talking about a true lean in where someone says to you, tell me more. I've been thinking and talking about that a lot lately. In fact, in my last episode, I talked about this at great length. And I've been thinking about how that phrase, those

Three words, tell me more. Or those five words, how are you actually feeling?

They are actually an act of profound courage to ask because it assumes that you're ready to receive whatever comes next. You have no idea what that person's going to say. And that's probably why we don't really ask it of each other very often.

My guest today, Ashley Martinez, is someone who knows what it means to be the person you never thought you'd be. She was unexpectedly a single mom, a pelvic floor PT, an integrative women's health coach, realized somewhere along the way she was or is a highly sensitive person, which she now wears with honor, not as a wound.

And she's the kind of clinician and coach who stopped leading her client care with a laundry list of intake questions and started leading with the question, tell me more. And she got there the long way through the deployment of a partner, through a divorce, through being on both sides of infidelity, through

being part of a church family that excommunicated her, through being part of a real family that demanded achievement in exchange for love, and living and inhabiting a body with autoimmune dysfunction, or maybe we could just call it autoimmune conditions, that...

taught her that she was never wrong. She just stopped listening to herself and to her intuition for a while, or maybe she never really learned to listen to it in the first place. And she said something in this conversation that I keep coming back to, that the torment, the self-loathing, the judgment, that in the moment, it's so hard when you're in the deepest, darkest depths of hardness of life, it's so hard to see that it's the refiners.

fire. But later you can see that it really is. So this conversation with Ashley was such a beautiful conversation and we went deep pretty fast. She came ready to be seen, ready to be vulnerable, possibly for the first time publicly. So make sure to either silently or openly send her some love and cheer her on.

And I was so honored to be the one holding that space here on this Incantation podcast. So without any further ado, here we go.

Julie Granger (07:09)
All right, welcome to this episode of the Sink and Swim podcast. I am super pumped to have Ashley Martinez here with us today. We were just chatting off screen, off mic, about our philosophy on vulnerability and sharing stories and being yourself and the challenges that come with that and the freedom that comes with that and how we both have a high suspicion for when people...

aren't showing their vulnerable sides now and kind of show the polished put together expert facade all the time that maybe that's not the greatest thing. And I feel like that was such a good intro to meet each other for the first time, but also to the whole point of this podcast, Sink and Swim. It's all about sinking into the juicy deep stuff that makes you who you are. So welcome, Ashley.

Ashley Martinez (07:56)
Thank you. I'm excited.

Julie Granger (07:57)
Thank you

for being here. Okay, so first question I'm gonna ask is tell us about you without telling us what you do.

Ashley Martinez (08:03)
So I was actually telling a friend yesterday, they asked me, did I look at the questions ahead of time? And I said, no, because one of my pet peeves is when people rehearse. Like what they're going to say, and then you meet what you were just talking about, you immediately get this like, ick factor. So I had to think really hard because I am totally guilty of introducing myself as like this.

Julie Granger (08:25)
Mm-hmm.

Ashley Martinez (08:25)
I love women and I have a very deep story myself. So I consider myself a friend and a healer to the women around me, my patients, my clients, my, friends, my daughter, hopefully. ⁓ and I, I do define myself by this because this is a huge part of who I am and who, what, what.

Julie Granger (08:42)
Mm-hmm.

Ashley Martinez (08:49)
created where I am right now. I'm a single mother and I'm a wannabe entrepreneur. And yeah, so that, that I'm, I'm an HSP. Ooh, I should lead with that. Huge part of who I am. So I'm a highly sensitive person. I feel very deeply. And I think that serves me in this season of my life where I didn't think it did before.

Julie Granger (08:52)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

man, it serves you so much. I am too also. And I have really come to terms with it being a superpower. Sometimes we were just talking off screen about how you're like, I'm gonna cry today. Well, I guess I'm gonna need to rearrange my day. And that can sometimes feel inconvenient, right? And or you've got to figure out how to be present with that.

amongst other people, right? And who might not always understand, but that's its own journey. And I think it's such a superpower that, you know, to that point we were just talking about, about like people who hide their vulnerability behind a facade of certainty or expert or whatever it is. Not that they're not expert at something, but it's always there and it always leads is, I think it's my body that picks up on it, right?

Ashley Martinez (10:03)
Have a

seat.

Julie Granger (10:04)
I had to learn my own, like I was doing it, know? Were you doing it too? Was it like, you're you're leading with expert and facade, like perfect and certain as well?

Ashley Martinez (10:17)
100%. 100%. Brene Brown is my girl. She is one of my absolute favorite. And she always talks about like, she goes in with her intellectual armor. And I was like, my gosh, know exactly what that is. Well, yeah, 100%. My one of the first times I caught myself doing it was when I opened feminine and flourishing and

Julie Granger (10:20)
Yeah.

You

Ashley Martinez (10:38)
I was cold plunging. I was playing around with cold plunging and I videoed myself and I did it just to be vulnerable and to be like, this is what I'm doing. And I sent it to my sister and I was like, I can't post this. Like, look at me. I can't post it. And my sister goes, okay, she's four years younger than me. I'm 42. She goes, no one wants to see a cut 40 some year old jumping in cold plunge.

Julie Granger (10:57)
Hmm

Ashley Martinez (11:04)
They want to see a little bit of flab going on and they want to see you rolling in that cold plunge and showing like what it actually is like and why you're doing it and just like just jump in there sports bra and everything and I was like You're so right. Like that's what I would want to see I want to see this unput together female just being like this is what I'm doing today and taking a dive Yeah like

Julie Granger (11:28)
So true.

Ashley Martinez (11:29)
the epitome of vulnerability, Like physical as well as emotional. And I did, ended up posting it and I was like, my gosh, this is, but that's what I would want to see in other women. makes me, it lets me trust them. It makes me feel like they're really genuine.

Julie Granger (11:44)
does it not also help you trust yourself, right? When you see it in someone else, where you see someone with their flabby 40 something year old body doing whatever it is, you know? And I mean, good for you. mean, because the vulnerability there is for you decades, if not lifetimes of conditioning that you've been taught as a woman to be small and perfect and prim and.

Ashley Martinez (12:01)
⁓

Julie Granger (12:09)
and and

Ashley Martinez (12:10)
Yep. Yep.

Julie Granger (12:33)
I love that your sister kind of brought that reality check in. And I so resonate because I am in my 40s. My body is changing. It's still pretty athletic looking. Most people would be like, that's a very trim, quote, healthy body. But it's different to me. every day, I'm like, well, that's softer than it once was, or that's thicker than it once was. My clothes don't fit the same. And I love seeing videos of people who are younger than me even, who are like,

This is what an actual woman's body looks like. And I'm like, thank you for that. I now feel safer in my own by seeing something reflected back to me that isn't what the gurus and the experts and the polished people tell you it's supposed to look like.

Ashley Martinez (13:03)
Great.

Yes. Yes. And I feel like, like you said, it's hard to give myself the permission to embrace that imperfection. It's very hard. And I feel like that gets harder mentally as we get into our forties. But to a point, it gets a little bit easier emotionally. I don't know if you feel that way or not. It's very freeing and it's almost like this is me.

Julie Granger (13:25)
Yeah.

Ashley Martinez (13:40)
This is me. My life experiences have gotten me here. My journey has gotten me here. I wouldn't be who I am without all of that. So that's a great thing.

Julie Granger (13:49)
You're right. You're so right. It's both. It's extremely vulnerable. And the emotion that comes with the vulnerability gets louder coming into your 40s for lots of reasons. But we don't need to get into all the mechanisms of that. And the emotion of, you know what? It's fine. And or I just, it's not that you don't care, but you just, can't care. You just don't have the capacity to.

Ashley Martinez (13:59)
you

Julie Granger (14:14)
Like give a damn around that anymore. And to buy in to the conditioning, it's like, don't have, sometimes it's I don't have energy, because that's the stage I'm in. Sometimes it's I just can't be bothered with that anymore. Or I don't believe it. I don't believe it anymore. I see that it's a conditioning that I, or something that I subscribed to and didn't realize I did. Yeah.

Ashley Martinez (14:33)
Right,

right.

Julie Granger (14:34)
⁓ so good. Well, beautiful. I'm curious, like, with that and being highly sensitive and being a deep feeler and your radar's up, you know, for those types of people too, are you someone who values, like, in just your everyday connections, more vulnerability, more depth? How do you feel about small talk? All that kind of stuff.

Ashley Martinez (14:48)
Mm-hmm.

I hate small talk. can't do it. I can't do it. And I actually didn't know that I hated small talk until I was many years into being a clinician. And oh gosh, it just gives me the heebie-jeebies when I have to bring a patient back and be like, so how are you doing today? Oh my gosh, was it raining out? So I would so much rather be like, so what brings you here? Like tell me your story.

Julie Granger (15:00)
Ha ha ha!

Mmm.

Ashley Martinez (15:26)
And that number one, again, establishes trust. But number two, you're creating a real connection with another human being. that's what my, you talk about like what your body craves. That's what my body craves is true human connection. And it doesn't have to be pretty. And it doesn't have to, you know, tell an amazing story. No, just be a human being with me. Be honest.

Julie Granger (15:51)
Yeah.

Ashley Martinez (15:53)
be authentic and just the small talk to me, I'd rather not speak. No, no. And that's, guess that's my biggest goal is for my patients and my clients and my friends and people who know me well to be comfortable in that silence. And it's taken me a really long time to be comfortable in that silence. Again, the older I get, the more I'm like, no.

Julie Granger (15:58)
Yeah. Sometimes you don't need to.

Ashley Martinez (16:19)
Less is absolutely more. I don't need to fill, I don't need to fill the void anymore. And that discomfort, I totally learned this in therapy, that discomfort, it allows you to sit with it and just observe it instead of panic and be like, what do I say next? What do I do next? do, no, just, just be in it for a minute. That's such a huge life lesson for me.

⁓ the experiences that I've had, I've always, you know, you're always waiting for the bad stuff to move. and the reality is, is everything's always constantly moving. Nothing is stagnating. You're just trying to not be present with it because it's unpleasant, but when you be present with it, that's where the growth happens and that's where the resilience happens. And that's what I want to emanate to people. And that's what I want them.

Julie Granger (16:58)
Yeah.

Ashley Martinez (17:06)
to let me see as well. Because when you see that in each other, that's when healing happens too, I feel like in all aspects. In the most chronic conditions, mean, connection is everything, I feel like. And I feel like that's what most people don't have.

Julie Granger (17:24)
Connection, mean connection with each other on a human level, like you said, from the get-go. And not that how's the weather isn't human, but I think that just anyone who's like, why don't you ask them what's wrong with the question? It's not the question, right? Maybe that is how you lead with someone, right? Like you genuinely wanna know how the weather is. But I think that, right, totally. There's nothing wrong with small, like actually leading with that to everyone listening. But.

Ashley Martinez (17:29)
Hmm.

Wait, no. No. Yeah. Yeah. I love life, by the way.

Julie Granger (17:50)
But I think it's the more the intention and the energy behind it of I'm like, I love how we opened to this before we were on and you're like, I'm nervous. Right. And I was like, hey, me too. It's like, there's the connection point right there. We just we jumped right to vulnerability because we're both ready and open and practiced and been through the therapy and the things to be OK with it. But, you know, I can't imagine how I would feel.

Ashley Martinez (17:58)
Mm-hmm.

Julie Granger (18:12)
If I walked into a medical appointment and someone said, hey, how are you actually feeling about this test you're about to have?

Ashley Martinez (18:18)
I would fall over.

Julie Granger (18:19)
Do you want to talk about it

for a minute? And I actually can remember a time that I was getting a mammogram before I was of age to get mammograms. So I had some things show up early. And a nurse brought me back and sat me down and was walking me through. She said, hey, I'm just going to walk you through what to expect. It was so good. And she put her hand on mine. And she said, how are you feeling about this? Total stranger. I don't think I remembered her name.

And And ⁓

Ashley Martinez (18:46)
you

The question, yes.

Julie Granger (19:13)
And I was like, I think that was just the one time when I look back on it and I'm like, why don't we do this more? These are humans we're talking to, not.

Ashley Martinez (19:21)
And that's, it gets lost. It gets lost in the translation of treating people, you know, because we're really not, I love, I'm pretty sure it was Jessica, Jessica Drummond, who said this, and gosh, I never forget this. She said, we are not healing. We are creating the environment for healing to be done. And that like blew my mind because I thought, whoa, okay, that embraces humility.

and that embraces the space where healing occurs. I'm not doing something magical to create a new whatever, a new state for you. You're doing it, your body is doing it, your mind is doing it. I'm just helping you create that environment through many different things. And I notice now,

I used to get really frustrated as a newer clinician, especially with younger women who would come in and I'm trying to ask them questions and learn that they're good, fine. And you're asking because you don't really know what's going on. But now as a more seasoned clinician, I love asking the question, tell me more. Tell me more.

Julie Granger (20:27)
Hmm.

Ashley Martinez (20:28)
Because number one, it leads with curiosity and not judgment. We're not here trying to pull pieces together. And number two, it's giving them the space to tell me what they feel comfortable telling me. But at the same time, I think communicating like, I need you to open up to me if you want me to open up to you. So I love that statement, tell me more.

That is a go-to for me. And I also think it's a little bit of an icebreaker because it's so easy for us to look at people and be like, how are you today? Good, how are you? How do you feel? I feel good. And then you're dead end. There's nowhere to go from there.

Julie Granger (21:06)
Yeah. It's not a one word. It's such an open-ended question. But how are you is also the thing about how are you is it can end in a dead end of, I'm good. Immediate, OK, well, that part of the conversation is done. Tell me more. I love that. It's so permission giving.

Ashley Martinez (21:23)
I love that.

Or say more. Those are my aways. But my goodness, the more I use it, the more I'm like, my gosh, people actually open up after that statement. And then not only can you move in the direction that you need to move in, they're more willing to come with you.

Julie Granger (21:26)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Ashley Martinez (21:44)
they're

more willing to participate, whether that be, you know, in a physical intervention, or whether that be just emotionally, they're there with you. And I think that's really important, because let's just be honest for a moment, when people don't trust and like you, their bodies are not going to trust or like you, and they're not going to get healing. not going to. Yeah, so you really

Julie Granger (22:07)
Entomacy and healing 101.

Ashley Martinez (22:11)
You and I were talking about like, you know, leading with that intellectual armor. I think when we put that down for a minute and allow ourselves to say like, hey, listen, I've never been where you are, but I've been in some tough spots and I get it. It's super uncomfortable. So give yourself the permission to just be there and tell me what you'd like to tell me when you're ready. And that does, ⁓ my gosh.

I feel like that does more than any intervention I was taught in school or anywhere else, like just giving that permission for them to lead as they feel.

Julie Granger (22:46)
Exactly. I think you don't have to have gone through, like you said, the same thing for that trust and like even to be established. It helps a little when you're like, you totally get what it's like to have been through X, Y, Z. But at the same time, two people could have diabolically different experiences with those things. One person sees it as

Ashley Martinez (22:48)
Mm-hmm.

Julie Granger (23:09)
the most horrible traumatic experience of their life and they haven't recovered from it and one person's like, oh, that was actually kind of great. That's gonna be a very different energy around it. And if you lead, even that is leading with expertise of, well, I've been through this and so I know what you're going through. Why, how would you know?

Ashley Martinez (23:15)
rates.

There's wisdom. There's wisdom in knowing what you don't know.

Julie Granger (23:34)
Yeah,

amen to that. So much, because you can only be curious from there. Yeah, that's great. Okay, well, segue, you mentioned that, I've been through some stuff and I'm with you, me too. And I think that, as we were just saying, it's not the thing on the surface that you've been through. It's...

Ashley Martinez (23:36)
Mm-hmm.

Julie Granger (23:53)
the journey through and it's the process and who you became in the process and what you let go of and all those things. I'm curious...

what you're willing to speak on around personal life, things you've been through of. You said single motherhood, relationships. What would feel good to illustrate your process, your journey, your story?

Ashley Martinez (24:12)
So I had to reflect a lot on this the past several days. Personally,

We all think our stories are so...

individualized to us and they are. But when you start sharing with other people, you start to see how

Normalize it is to be abnormal. If that makes any sense. ⁓ I am a completely different person than I was 10 or 15 years ago. And it's 100 % from my experiences. But I would say I'm relatively open, but actually you, Julie.

Julie Granger (24:34)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Ashley Martinez (24:54)
are likely gonna be the first one to hear some juicy stuff that I've lived through and that I would like to share because I don't think it's talked about enough and it's really helped me grow in, my gosh, I can't even explain how many ways. So like I said, I'm a single mother. My daughter is nine years old. So when I had her, her father was deployed and

later after I had very shortly after I had her, he had told me he didn't want to be married anymore. He wasn't even home from the deployment yet. And I later found out about multiple infidelities. So being, being a single mom throws you into that. It is all on me. It is all on me. Who else is it going to be on? It's not, there's nobody else. However,

Julie Granger (25:27)
Mm-hmm.

Truly.

Ashley Martinez (25:38)
It's all unfolding. It's all unfolding the way it should have, the way it should have. And I'll explain that. In the first three years, I was in complete fight or flight, complete fight or flight. Every way that you could think of that a single mother would manifest fight or flight, I manifested. I worked like crazy only to pay my babysitters because I was too in my head to

my daughter into a daycare. I was terrified. So I paid sitters to come to my home. I worked I think at one point I had five PRN positions to try to bring in an income to keep her in a safe apartment with a view so that she wouldn't remember any of the tough stuff. But the reality is is her and I slept on the floor of my apartment the first almost two months because I couldn't afford

our, we lived in Florida, Orlando, Florida, and I'm here in West Virginia, and we couldn't afford to have our stuff delivered because there was no money left in the savings that had been taken out. So we slept on the floor, me, her, and the dog on a blow up bed with my 10 month old at the time. And I would go to work and the babysitters would come and they would take care of my baby.

Julie Granger (26:32)
Mm.

Mm.

Ashley Martinez (26:52)
and I would come home and I would just fall apart, you know? And whatever is part of that, fast food, lack of exercise, lots and lots and lots of mental distress. And then in three years, I had started to hit a groove, which I think we all do eventually, but a groove doesn't mean health, right? A groove doesn't mean you're doing okay. A groove means you have found...

Julie Granger (27:12)
Hmm.

Ashley Martinez (27:17)
You have found the path in the chaos and you've learned how to move forward out of it. Right. So I hit a groove and I absolutely was fueled by bitterness and hatred and a little bit of of what was me. I'm not going to lie. You know. Yeah.

Julie Granger (27:22)
Mm-hmm.

Ugh.

I would expect it, no doubt.

Yeah.

Ashley Martinez (27:40)
Yeah,

yeah. And at the time, I didn't really see that, but it was 100 % there. And I had found a good church and I had found an outlet for movement. So I'd started some CrossFit and dating was not at all on my radar because in my mind, I was broken. I came from a home, I'm the oldest of three. I lived in an absolute authoritarian home.

not authoritative, where I was demanded to be the best all the time, the smartest, know, all of the accolades, all of the things that you would think a would be made to have. So in that sense, there was no option to fail. I actually had a serious falling out with my parents because they could not

Julie Granger (28:06)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

yeah.

Ashley Martinez (28:28)
They couldn't, I used to think that they couldn't see the pain, but I don't think they could handle the pain. There's a difference. There's a difference. And you know, the older you get, the more you move out of that, anger and that sometimes hate and you see your parents for who they are, which is a human being.

Julie Granger (28:33)
Definitely a difference. Yep.

Ashley Martinez (28:48)
that had parents that didn't raise them perfectly.

and you follow that trend. So I had a falling out with my parents. I did not have my parents' support for a really long time. And then when I did have their support, there was a lot of gaslighting and, just get over it. Just move on, just move forward. So there was a lot of dysfunction in the immediacy of what my daughter and I were handling.

⁓ You know, you get the first two years of any child's life. They're getting everything under the sun. They're sick. They're this, they're that. There were hospital stays. I was very ill when I had her, so I developed, that's when I developed my autoimmune conditions, and I was absolutely terrified. I was putting my daughter in an environment where she would develop those same conditions. So as we moved out of those first three years, the transition from...

Spider flight woes me. I can do this. I'm super strong. I'm super weak. This is awful. This is awesome. Like there was just a lot going on in those first three years. I'm a badass. I suck. Like, you know, all of the thoughts that go through your mind when you're going through difficult things, the lessons.

Julie Granger (29:52)
Mm-hmm.

Ashley Martinez (29:59)
they were unmatched. They were unmatched. Whether you are a faith oriented person or you are an energy person or you are a person that thinks none of that exists, I was, there was just no doubt in my mind that there was guidance and there were blessings and there were glimmers and there were angels and there were people helping me through those very, very difficult moments.

anything from financial to spiritual, where the right people come at the right time. Those first three years were tough. They were the toughest years, I would say, financially and mentally for me, but the emotional years came after. I had mentioned that my ex-husband had been unfaithful.

And he actually remained in Florida while her and I moved back to West Virginia, which is where I'm from. And I was just not interested in men. I actually, if I'm being honest with myself, like I said, I didn't feel worthy of a man. My body was completely wrecked. My mind would probably never go back. And now I'm so grateful for that, but at the time,

Julie Granger (31:08)
Mm-hmm.

Ashley Martinez (31:09)
You think, my goodness, nobody's going to want me. You know, I, um, I have a child that I'm raising alone.

There are good men out there and there are really awful ones. And sometimes they're one in the same. And I got to experience that firsthand. I've only dated one man since my divorce. He was my absolute number one cheerleader and he was also a source of trauma for me. ⁓

Julie Granger (31:32)
Mm-hmm.

Ashley Martinez (31:34)
I was carrying trauma from the divorce and from the unfaithfulness. And it turns out that this man too was unfaithful as well as dishonest. He was actually married. Yes ma'am. So there was, there was a lot, there was a lot. And I actually have never said that out loud.

Julie Granger (31:52)
Mm-hmm.

Ashley Martinez (31:55)
I've actually, I've never said that publicly. The reason I think it's so important to say these things out loud is because

The torment, the judgment, the self-loathing.

It's so hard to see in the moment that it's the refiner's fire.

Julie Granger (32:12)
Yeah.

Ashley Martinez (32:12)
It's so hard to see in the moment that sometimes horrible things happen for our betterment. And it's also so hard to see when you've never seen it before. When my husband cheated on me, quite literally, I used to sit with my daughter and think, God, what kind of woman would do that?

Julie Granger (32:18)
Yeah.

Ashley Martinez (32:33)
What kind of woman would know, ⁓ and there were different circumstances. One knew, one did not know about me and my daughter. And to be on the other end of that, to find out you're on the other end of that, not only is it a humbling experience, but the perspective that that life experience gives you, it's invaluable. It's invaluable.

Because now you begin to see people as fallible human beings who all have their own story and who all see things from their vantage point. I would have never seen that before. I can look at, can actually think about the women now that my husband was with and truly, truly be curious of.

Julie Granger (33:08)
Yeah.

Ashley Martinez (33:17)
How lonely were they? Like, what were they going through? What was their life experience before meeting my ex-husband? Were they ever single mom like I was? What was their support system like? And it just, you know, it would have never crossed my mind before because in my story, they were the demons. They were the bad guys. But in someone else's story, I was the bad

Julie Granger (33:26)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Whew.

Ashley Martinez (33:44)
and it so.

In the midst of all of that, there were several other challenges. I ended up carrying that for a very long time, very long time. And like I said, it's so funny to listen to other people now, you know, talk about infidelity and talk about divorce and talk about really tough stuff because there's a villain and there's a hero.

Julie Granger (34:06)
Mm-hmm.

Ashley Martinez (34:06)
And it's just not true. It's just not true. So the man that was the villain in my story, he was also my hero because he pulled me out of the depths of my depression. He showed me that I could be loved. He...

Julie Granger (34:08)
Mm-hmm. I know.

Ashley Martinez (34:23)
was my very best friend when I didn't even know that existed, you know? And he has his own story. He has his own story as to why he went down that path. And his wife had her story as to why they went down that path together. And it's just so, it's so humbling. It's so humbling.

to know that it happens more often than not. And people aren't bad usually. They're broken and they're looking for healing. gosh. ⁓

Julie Granger (34:53)
Yeah.

They're broken.

There's so much less evil in the world than we think, than

the narratives will make it out to be.

Ashley Martinez (35:06)
There's so much more love than hate. I truly believe that. But in my story, there was a time where, gosh, I couldn't see that. I couldn't see like, why is this all happening? There's a part of most of us I feel that we think we're owed. Like we went through the bad, so now give me the good. But that's just not how life works. ⁓ I think we're given the choice to figure out how we handle.

all of these challenges that are very unforeseen. There was a point where I desperately needed support. I could not make peace with, this was not gonna work and he had lied. And I was in this horrible position that I just belittled my ex-husband for putting me in and it was just awful. And I went to my church and I actually got excommunicated for...

for the affair. And then my family, I told my family, and this is a very current situation. My family does not trust me to be around their children. And it's just...

I look at life very differently, I feel like, than the average human being. But I'm grateful for it, even though it's brought a lot of difficulty and a lot of strain. Because I can now look at a person who has done, you know, quote, an awful thing, and I can see the grace. ⁓

Julie Granger (36:24)
Mm-hmm.

Ashley Martinez (36:25)
and I can see the pain and I can see the perspective. And I would have never saw that before, ever, ever. I was the judgmental one. I was the righteous one. And I just can't live my life like that anymore. People are hurting.

Julie Granger (36:27)
Mm-hmm.

How beautiful, first of all. Thank you for sharing and being so vulnerable and brave and being public with this story for the first time. That takes an enormous amount of self-awareness and courage and knowing your limits and knowing in the moment, OK, I'm going to let these words come out and maybe not these. And that's OK. That's actually also self-aware. And also,

Ashley Martinez (36:49)
No. ⁓

Julie Granger (37:09)
What I don't sense, which I think is really beautiful, is there's not like a, I'm just a bit shining this and putting a bow on it and looking for the rosy picture. It's not a pretty picture, right? It's messy. And I think that, and I love what you said, when you're in the middle of it, when you're in the fire, you don't see the lesson nor should you try. Like, it's just not what we're wired to do. You're supposed

Ashley Martinez (37:21)
It's dirty. It was ugly. Yeah.

No! It's not the time!

It's not the time! No!

Julie Granger (37:35)
It's supposed to be in it, right?

And it's not till later. And as you said, it's still current. It's still playing out. There's still moments. It's still bringing tears. It's still, ooh, right? And I think that that's the process. It's a spiral upward. You're going to, I love how you said it's not you go through hardship once and we're done, right? Like, no, we're going to be back here again, right?

Ashley Martinez (37:49)
It is.

No, that's not how it works.

You go through it with everything else in life, with raising children, and with going to work. You and I were talking about this, you know, keeping it together to be able to work, maintaining a household. Like all of those things, they don't stop. A dog still needs fed. My water bill still needs paid. But it really brings, it brings...

Julie Granger (38:15)
Mm-hmm.

Ashley Martinez (38:19)
It brings a certainty that number one, we can all survive a lot more than what we think we can. Number one, the resilience is unbelievable when we give the space for it. And number two, I really truly firmly believe that if people spoke more openly about their struggles with more curiosity and less judgment, that connection that we all desire and that we all

require, it would be so much more easily given than if we all hid the dirt, the messy, the ugly, which we all tend to do because we're afraid of the judgment. ⁓

Julie Granger (38:52)
Mm-hmm.

afraid of,

yeah, I think it's real. It's not only our own self judgment, which you clearly talked about and showed us, but also it's we're going you're also talked about other judgment from others, you know, and it's going to happen. And there's it's

Ashley Martinez (39:01)
Absolutely.

Okay.

Julie Granger (39:12)
We don't deserve that and it's not comfortable and relationships might break because of it, God willing, or get repaired, also God willing, right? But maybe, or change, either way. But I think that...

it does take courage, just quoting Brene Brown, to dare greatly. And it's not, it's not, there's lots of things that I believe we actually fear, judgment being one of them. Success, like being judged for succeeding more than a family member once did, or having more, or doing more, or being more courageous, if that's what it is.

Ashley Martinez (39:32)
We are. Living in arena,

Mm-hmm.

It's absolutely...

Julie Granger (39:52)
Those are all things where people are going to bring out their pitchforks and torches. And to your point, like you said somewhere in there, it tells you more about their hurt and their journey and their tolerance for discomfort than yours. You're sitting here wading through the discomfort like, let's just talk about it. And they're going, God, no, let's just talk about the weather or just get over it.

Ashley Martinez (40:16)
Yes, yes.

Julie Granger (40:19)
Yeah.

Ashley Martinez (40:19)
One of the hardest things I ever had said to me and I was like, what was observing. So I, my gosh, I read so many things. know, the intellectual comes out when you're struggling and you're maybe the book to read to help me with this. And so I've read, my gosh, Eckhart Tolle and Jay Shetty and just all these, you know, brilliant minds. And one of the biggest takeaways I had was

Julie Granger (40:31)
course.

Ashley Martinez (40:43)
Stop trying to run from it. Sit. Observe. Let it pass through you. And I was like, what do you mean let it pass through?

like just have it be go. But truly when you just let yourself experience it, it's not only a lesson but it helps formulate so many other important things in your life like self-awareness, getting rid of that self-judgment which my gosh I carried I can't even explain to you the amount I carried and what it did to me.

It did not do anything positive. It did nothing positive, but also creating loving boundaries. was a boundary-less woman, you know? And I didn't know I was a boundary-less woman. I was a boundary-less woman in my relationships. I experienced trauma bonds. I experienced lack of boundaries with some, you know, parental abuse. there was a lot going on there that if I would have known and understood, there's worthiness there.

You don't earn your worthiness and you are allowed to have loving boundaries. People don't like that word. They don't like boundaries because they associate it with this negativity and this distancing. That's not what a boundary is at all. It's all about, no, I want to connect with you, but I want to connect in a way that is safe for me and it's safe for you. And there's no harm. And that's totally different.

that took me so long. So I'm still learning that. I know me, that's like a lifelong thing I feel like, but at least now I know that I am worthy of that and the people that I love and maybe don't love so much are also worthy of that.

Julie Granger (42:06)
I know.

doubt. love the phrase boundaries are between me and me.

Ashley Martinez (42:23)
⁓ I'm going to keep that one. I like that.

Julie Granger (42:24)
It's actually

a rule for myself, you know? And sometimes we need the word rule. We need that more strict black and white to it of this is how I'm willing to be related to and not. And it benefits me first, because that's important. But it benefits you too. So we can connect, like you said. And it's safe. And sometimes that looks like a thick Sharpie line that feels like distance. But it's because for whatever reason, the two of us can't relate to each other in a way that's safe and not harming to one

Ashley Martinez (42:34)
Yeah.

Yes.

I'm experiencing that right now and it's tough. It's tough because you know that the people that are not a fan of the boundaries, they don't necessarily mean harm either. mean, sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. In my circumstance, I don't think they do, but there has to be a line where you say, know what? We have to agree to disagree. I still love you.

Julie Granger (42:51)
Yeah.

Ashley Martinez (43:18)
You're still meaningful to me. But if we go further, this is going to harm me and it's going to harm you. And we're not going to connect. And we're going to hurt relationships.

Julie Granger (43:25)
Yeah.

I feel like your point about sometimes they do mean harm is actually worth highlighting for a second because hurt people hurt people, just to sum up and bring a cliche in on the compassion towards someone who is harming another. And what I want, if anyone's getting confused about this is it's, we're not making it okay that people are harming someone and we're just saying, we forgive them, it's fine. No, it's definitely a tool that's within the human.

Ashley Martinez (43:39)
Yes.

No. No.

Julie Granger (43:54)
psyche and existence and animals out in the world, the living beings, harm is a tool to reach for when you're hurting, when it feels like the only thing you have left. It's armor, it's weaponry, it's not wrong. And if we like flip it for a second, it's happening to protect themselves or protect something they hold sacred. And

Ashley Martinez (44:06)
Armor.

Julie Granger (44:19)
That's where the compassion gets to come in and go, And even if that thing they're trying to protect is this irrational thing that isn't real or whatever it is, that's not the point. The point is it's actually an act of love for that reason. Having said that, it doesn't make it okay, right? And that's where boundaries come in.

Ashley Martinez (44:33)
Absolutely.

Correct, correct. And I'm going to muck up what this person says, but I heard a long time ago, it's a form of lower intelligence to vilify, you know, anyone and everyone around you that is quote unquote, potentially doing the wrong thing or creating that pain. But it's a form of higher intelligence to get curious and to be able to empathize with their story.

So again, you're not justifying it. You're not saying like, you're allowed to do whatever you want because you've had pain in your past. No, but there's positive and there's negative to everyone. is, there's an angel and a demon is what they say, right? Angel and demon, all of us. And in order to see that you have to get real with yourself for a moment and say, okay, I'm capable of this, this and this. This person is as well.

Julie Granger (45:15)
Mm-hmm.

Ashley Martinez (45:27)
⁓ It's so easy to vilify certain people in certain stories. It's easy to vilify the adulterer. It's easy to vilify the husband that left. It's easy to vilify the woman who cheated. It's easy to vilify the church that kicked them out. It's so simple to go down that road, but it's so much harder to say what were their stories and what are their perspectives? Like what are...

Why are they making the decisions that they're making and to humanize it? And that's my goal for myself. I want to be that for my friends so that when they go through horrible things, Ashley is not going to be the one that says, well, here's what you have to do. No. Right. Right. We're all looking for that person to say, I hear you. That really sucks. I'm so sorry. What do need?

Julie Granger (46:07)
Shoulda done that.

Ashley Martinez (46:18)
That's what I wanted. I think that's what most people want. They just want to be heard. And they certainly don't want to be told how awful they are. It all goes back to that connection. It all goes back to that.

Julie Granger (46:28)
goes back to that connection in that the, what is it, the human in me sees the human in you. All of those things of the only judgment we pass on others is what we pass on ourselves. And if you say you're a compassionate caregiver or mother or friend, and then you're judging, it's not that you're not compassionate, it's just.

If there's any amount of let me fix you or tell you what to do or tell you why you did that wrong or whatever, especially when they're not asking for that, that is a departure from compassion for even but a moment. And it can break that connection and that trust really, really fast. And I think the tragic part is people think that's compassion, people think that that's love. That's probably a whole other podcast episode we need to do, but at the same time.

Ashley Martinez (46:58)
Mm-hmm.

Julie Granger (47:19)
But I think that all you can do is all you can do as yourself, right? You can only take responsibility for how you show up in the world. And we're not going to get it right every time, you know, both in compassion and judgment. I think that, as you said, the angel and the demon are there and that demon is there for protection. I was sitting this morning, I was telling you before we went live, like working through my own judgment, my own imposter syndrome, my own whatever it was this morning that came up.

Ashley Martinez (47:41)
⁓ syndrome.

Julie Granger (47:44)
you know, and

sitting with the judge and going, well, God, have horrible things to say, horrible things to say. And I just asked myself, I got curious and was like, and how is that helping? Like, like helping with quotes around it, with asterisks around it, because logically it's not helping, right? But at the same time, it has this loyal cry for why behind it.

And when I was able to get curious and compassionate, I could see it. And I was like, well, I see why this thing that I'm feeling that it's trying to judge me on and stop me from doing is actually so important. It's important. There's this importance underneath it. And it came down to just to spoil the end of the movie. If you do that thing, you won't be worthy. It came down to that, like you said.

like unraveling it down there was like, okay, maybe I don't need an army fighting for that because it's already there. But I think that when you can do that for yourself, when you have done that for yourself, and most importantly, when you've done it in relationship with someone else, whether that's in therapy or in coaching with a client, with a friend, with a family member, it seals the deal. And it validates

Ashley Martinez (48:54)
Where are you?

Julie Granger (49:00)
that you're deserving of compassion because you're worthy even when you do horrible things or you have a disease that nobody understands that the world is teaching you as self-inflicted, whatever, you know.

Ashley Martinez (49:13)
Absolutely, absolutely. when I go backwards, you know, and when I have those days where you're, you're reflecting, you're reflecting on everything that has happened in the past decade. I would have never picked any of it, right? We're never going to pick, we're never going to pick our firefighters fire because it's, it's too much. But I can tell you with absolute certainty and

Julie Granger (49:24)
Mm, mm, right.

Ashley Martinez (49:35)
It's really hard for me to sometimes, and I think this is really common for us to say the good about ourselves. But the one thing I can say with absolute certainty that I've gained over this decade is compassion. It is compassion for others. It's compassion for my patients and my clients, compassion for my friends, compassion for my family, because you don't gain that. I always tell...

I used to say this to my siblings all the time. If you come up to somebody and they lack compassion, they haven't lived through enough terrible things yet. you know, be happy for that. Be happy that they haven't had to experience some of the terror that you've had to experience because it does. It humbles you and...

If the world is lacking anything, it is certainly compassion. So I don't think we can overdo there and just being real with people more often.

Julie Granger (50:30)
Mm hmm. I mean, bringing it back to our very first conversation on looking at someone and saying, so how are you really feeling about this? Which they may not be equipped to answer. That may be the first time anyone's ever asked them that question. But that doesn't preclude you from trying, right? And I love this part about if they're lacking compassion, they haven't lived through enough, right?

Ashley Martinez (50:39)
⁓

Yes.

Julie Granger (50:52)
I would add, and they haven't processed it because it's possible they have lived through, but they haven't processed it. And they haven't gone there and they haven't acted like they've been in the fire, but they've like, they had on their fire suit. You know what I mean? All their armor. And they're like.

Ashley Martinez (50:59)
Thank you.

Right? Didn't quite

burn them. Yeah. Yup. Yup.

Julie Granger (51:08)
And like the same things keep repeating, right? And they're armored up with so much judgment that they don't go inward. And there's no shame for not going inward and doing the work and all those things because also that's super uncomfortable as we were talking about and we were taught not to do that. We're not gonna talk about it. And we're gonna pretend it's not there. I'm gonna put it under the rug, you know, and just move on. And I think that for some people, their journey is they never will. That's okay. Not in this lifetime.

Ashley Martinez (51:23)
Peace.

this man.

Julie Granger (51:33)
Right? And that's, that's okay. We can only wish that everyone does, but at the same time, that's okay. And I think that I love what you said about you can't choose your refiner's fire. Can you imagine if there was like this vending machine that was like, well, if you want to get over there, you're going to have to go through and process through all these things. So just pick your poison. Do you want it to be divorce? Do you want it to be cancer? Do you want it to be infidelity? Would you like it to be death of a family member? Which one would you like?

Ashley Martinez (51:34)
Right.

Julie Granger (52:01)
probably gonna be all of them, by the way, or some shape or form of relational rupture, betrayal of trust, disease, and death of someone you love, right? Like we all get these lessons and they are gonna hit us in different ways at different times and.

Ashley Martinez (52:04)
Wait. Wait.

Julie Granger (52:18)
I mean, it's just a matter of are you equipped and resource and supported enough to sink into it and be in it and process it or not? And can we be those people for other people when they're in the midst of their muck too?

Ashley Martinez (52:30)
Absolutely.

And I now believe, which I don't think I believed before, I now believe that we get the lessons that we We need. And however, whatever you believe in, you know, I'm a very spiritual person. I do believe firmly with everything inside of me that all of that happened. I don't want to say for a reason, I want to say for my benefit, because it helped me grow and it helped me break out of

Julie Granger (52:37)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Ashley Martinez (52:57)
the shell that I was born into and that I was raised to be. And again, when I think about it, it's really hard to, ⁓ you know, not be angry about some of that. But when you get that perspective and when you start looking at other people's stories, it's a lot easier to show a little bit of compassion. Now, does that mean you have to be super close with people who have harmed you? No, I think that's a personal choice.

but it does mean forgiveness, which is freedom. And it also means, again, embracing your worthiness and understanding like you don't earn that.

Julie Granger (53:26)
Hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

I feel like anger is one of the lessons I've learned is anger is speaking of being a highly sensitive person, like the moment, but now that I'm aware of it, which took years to become aware of it, but now that I'm aware of it, I'm like, this is an invitation first and foremost for self-compassion. Like there is something here.

Ashley Martinez (53:40)
and then.

Julie Granger (53:52)
that I'm feeling angry about, that means a boundary of mine has been breached that I didn't even know I needed to set or a need is not being met or a want is not being met or something I'm worthy of is not being provided to me, whether by myself or someone else. And it's like the ultimate invitation. It's the ultimate doorway to me. I'm like, ooh, angry, so glad it's here. Thank you for coming. It's the ultimate invitation.

Ashley Martinez (54:06)
Right.

I love that word, invitation. That is a lot

of fun.

Julie Granger (54:20)
especially

for women who are accultured against it, right? And it's wrong and it's bad and it makes you immoral, whatever. And I feel like once you can then shore up what it is that you need or want that's not being met or whatever, then you get to then kind of do with that anger what you need to do, right? In order to set a boundary with another person or extend compassion or both.

It's like also the ultimate invitation to maintaining connection.

Ashley Martinez (54:49)
with yourself and with

Julie Granger (54:50)
with yourself

and someone else and how that connection shows up in the 3D world might change, but it's all in service to the deep want of connection.

Ashley Martinez (55:02)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

I've struggled lately with that phrase, like, morality, because I thought I knew what it meant, you know? And that has been thrown at me by some very close people in my life. You've lost your morals, your immoral. And I've thought about that so much.

Julie Granger (55:09)
Mm.

Ashley Martinez (55:25)
Morality, I think, is having the wisdom, having the wisdom to see the greater good. And I think most people struggle with that because of what we're conventionally taught. And again, it is certainly not an excuse for poor choices, poor behavior, harming other people. Of course not. But morality...

being able to see the greater good, I think that gets misconstrued a lot with always quote unquote doing the right thing, the same things. And I think if more people took that jump, and again, I'm certainly saying this from my own life experience, I would have never said this before, but I think whenever we open our hearts to

Julie Granger (55:57)
Mm-hmm.

Ashley Martinez (56:13)
to that, not even just discomfort, like that imperfection, that imperfection of making choices and following through with those choices. I think when we open our hearts to that and again, get curious and do all the things that we've talked about, observe and kind of figure out like why we're making the choices that we are. I think that brings a lot.

more to the conversation than just this is good, this is bad, and that's it. And that's how I'm going to raise my daughter. I want my daughter to come to me with everything. The reality is she's not going to, you know, but I want her to know that I'm her mother. Yes, I'm the one that's supposed to teach her. I'm supposed to teach her worthiness. I'm supposed to teach her morality, of course.

Julie Granger (56:48)
Mm-hmm.

Ashley Martinez (57:04)
But when she messes up, I want to be that person that she comes to. And you can't be that person if you're the person throwing around judgment. And I will be fought on that, I'm sure by many people that watch this or if any of my relatives watch this. the reality is, is judgment creates distance. It creates distance and connection and curiosity.

Julie Granger (57:08)
Mm-hmm.

Ashley Martinez (57:27)
that creates unending love, in my opinion. So.

Julie Granger (57:32)
We're just going to quote her all day. Brene's quote of shame loves lying, hiding, and secrecy. And judgment creates shame. And so there you go. Someone's going to lie. They're going to hold it secret. They're going to hide. They're going to disconnect. They're going to withdraw. They're going to probably do something worse. And it just perpetuates the thing. It perpetuates the mess up, whatever that is.

Ashley Martinez (57:52)
Absolutely.

Yeah, and let's

just talk about what that does in your body too. Like I have zero doubts that my autoimmune conditions are from my life experiences, 100%. That it's toxic, it's poison to the soul. So being open, think, man, if that could become a trend, I feel like the connection that would come from that would be unreal.

Julie Granger (58:03)
yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, we would all be better for it. It's gonna take a pretty heavy lift. Not that it's impossible, I don't think it's impossible, but it's gotta be just like a ⁓ magic wand of humility that's like swept over the world, know, where everyone's like, yeah, let me process out my fire now. know, gosh, the therapist of the world would become like millionaires. But I think that's just to bring it to our work.

Ashley Martinez (58:20)
and we would all be better for it.

cumulative.

Wait.

Julie Granger (58:46)
that we are playing a role in that for people of offering compassionate space, offering someone who's listening and in the way, and form that we do. And it doesn't have to look like constantly dragging through your childhood trauma. It can look like feeling seen today as well. And that can go very far for a lot of people.

Ashley Martinez (59:06)
100%.

Julie Granger (59:07)
And on that segue, speaking of the work, you have mentioned you work with women, you help them in their bodies, from anything pelvic floor, chronic pain, bowel, bladder, lymphedema, it's intimate and vulnerable territory. Brings with it all kinds of stories and experiences. I'm curious with all we've talked about.

Ashley Martinez (59:23)
Indeed.

Julie Granger (59:31)
less of the actual like expertise and let's talk about that. How does your experience of seeing the signals coming from your body and learning them and learning what sensitivities like things that you just pick up without even realizing and things you've even reframed as information versus some disease you need to fix, right? And quiet.

How does that shape how you show up for women who are struggling with any number of body issues? At least that's what they come to you with first.

Ashley Martinez (1:00:02)
It is completely changed how I practice. Completely changed. It takes a lot of the, I'm going to say intellectual part out because the reality is one of my favorite things to say to my ladies is your body is speaking. Like, yes, there is a collection of symptoms here. Yes, you are here to get said symptoms addressed, but

it encourages me that when women walk in with the train wreck of a presentation, right, that we're seeing more and more often this day and age, I no longer get the overwhelm in my body that I had gotten previously as a younger clinician. And I don't think it's because I have gotten, you know, so much smarter over the last years. I think it's because

Julie Granger (1:00:50)
You

Ashley Martinez (1:00:53)
I'm finally understanding.

individually what that feels like. And it allows me to translate to my patient and again, be compassionate to what she's feeling because it's, yes, it's presenting as symptoms, but there's always something underlying. There's always something, whether it is a mom of three young children who is, you know, not taking the time or doesn't feel like she can take the time to care for her physical body.

or if it is someone who has walked in with a significant history of trauma and abuse, or if it is someone that just doesn't feel like this is a big deal. It's not a big deal. It's a little bit of incontinence. What's the problem? Everybody gets older. I hear that a lot too.

allowing us to move outside of the body and

I guess witness how people manifest their life experiences. That's what has changed my practice. I no longer lead with the laundry list of questions that we're supposed to ask everybody, which, you know, you have to ask some questions to get history, of course. But my questions often kind of get pushed to the side, the questions that I know I need to ask, especially like history, past history questions.

Julie Granger (1:01:59)
Mm-hmm.

Ashley Martinez (1:02:10)
A lot of the times my goal is to set up an environment where I don't have to ask. They feel comfortable enough to tell me. They feel safe enough to tell me. And that's when I feel like I am actually providing a needed service versus, you know, just physical therapy or just coaching or, you know, all of the, like you said, hats that we wear. It's about so much more than that. When these people are being heard, when they feel safe,

Julie Granger (1:02:36)
Yeah.

Ashley Martinez (1:02:37)
they transform way more than anything I could do.

Julie Granger (1:02:40)
And they might tell you the thing to your point about their trauma history that because they feel safe that no intake form where it's like, do you have a history of trauma? Yes or no, you know, or if you even ask the question, sometimes it's very confronting. And if you've led with human to human, and I just, I just want to hear your story. I want to hear the story the way you feel like you want to tell it.

⁓ without this laundry list of when did it start, how long it, you know, how does it feel. We need to know those things, but I feel like you only need to reach for those when something's missing, right? Or it's sort of like, I'm not just seeing the picture and I need more so I can actually help you in a helpful way. But sometimes people need to drag through the story for a while and that's okay.

Ashley Martinez (1:03:27)
Yeah.

I think that's totally okay. And for some people, they want that cerebral part. They want you to be like, tell me what to do. And I am one of those people. If I'm going to somebody I would love if they told me just what to do and make me feel better. But again, the more I, the further I get into my forties, the more I find that we already have the answers. We really do.

We're not looking for more.

Julie Granger (1:03:51)
We're not looking for more information or diagnoses or tricks. mean, sometimes you need the diagnoses. You need the validation that what you're experiencing is real. And here is what it is. Because those labels, while we open this talking about no labels, those labels give your soul and your body and your brain a place to land that says, this is not in your head. It's not inconquerable. Because then there's also something you can do about it, right? ⁓

Ashley Martinez (1:04:00)
correct.

Yes.

Julie Granger (1:04:20)
very empowering to a point

until it becomes hyper-intellectualized and becomes armor. ⁓ Yeah, yeah, the identity, yeah.

Ashley Martinez (1:04:27)
it becomes our definition, it becomes our role. Yes, yes,

yes. I talk about that a lot with my younger patients. It's so easy to make symptoms your identity or diagnose with your identity. And that's really what I want to avoid. In the past, I would say five years of being a clinician and a newer health coach.

The identity serves nothing. It really doesn't. It gives that moment of validation, which I 100 % believe in, but to further continue to connect with that diagnosis or those symptoms, I think it's a huge detriment to the healing journey because now we're coming out of our body. We need to stay in the body.

Julie Granger (1:05:12)
No doubt. I feel like that's been a huge journey of mine personally. My own medical journey is de-identifying with things. And I feel like actually there's an added layer of complication of being a woman in healthcare, where we were trained to label and diagnose and fix and solve. it showed up in someone who might have been

Ashley Martinez (1:05:30)
Yes.

Julie Granger (1:05:36)
program or condition to kind of latch onto that anyway. And now I'm a completely different person around these types of things and providers. if I'm labeled immediately or mislabeled or hyper managed because of a past medical history item, I'm out. I'm like, no, we're not doing that.

Ashley Martinez (1:05:56)
Yes, I have experienced this as well in both ways. So I was that person that needed that diagnosis because I needed the validation. But the farther I get from the actual diagnoses, the less I can be in that world. So and I'm just going to say it because we know it's true. Support groups, I avoid ⁓ going online and saying this is

Julie Granger (1:06:16)
Hmm.

Ashley Martinez (1:06:21)
a day in the life of a woman with Hashimoto, I don't want to do that because I know to a degree that could support other women. However, I don't want to carry that identity because it's misleading. It's misleading. Yes, it's there. Yes, it's a part of what is going on right now, but it does not, it's not who I am. It's not who I am. And the more I distance myself from that,

I feel my nervous system letting go. That's how you know you're going in the right direction. But the more rabbit holes I would go down, my goodness, my fight or flight was way up here and it wasn't serving me. I've said this to so many of my patients. It doesn't serve you to go down the rabbit holes to find the golden ticket. There is no golden ticket. It serves you, get that validation.

Julie Granger (1:06:46)
Right. Right.

Ashley Martinez (1:07:08)
And then let's start looking inward. Let's start looking at daily practice too. Daily practice is where change is going to happen. Not like with some weird, you know, supplement or regime that we've made up. The regime.

Julie Granger (1:07:19)
The regime. Yes. Yes.

Absolutely. ⁓ man.

with them.

The version of you who became a clinician 20 something, you know, ish years ago, right? Going on 20.

before you went through all you went through also.

knowing that you had to walk through that to learn these lessons, these rich, beautiful things. So it's not like we can just tell a 22 or 25 year old, here's what you need to know, don't mess up. But if there was one thing you could whisper to her.

Ashley Martinez (1:07:45)
Yeah.

Julie Granger (1:07:49)
piece of wisdom, little piece of just like, here's a little carrot I'm going to dangle for you. What would it be?

Ashley Martinez (1:07:56)
This is where I'm gonna cry. I thought about this last night. This is one thing that I reflected on. I told you I won't reflect because I want what comes out of my mouth.

Julie Granger (1:08:04)
Yeah, love that.

Ashley Martinez (1:08:05)
I would have told myself two things. I would have told myself number one, you don't need to earn love. Stop doing that. And I would have told myself number two.

Trust that feeling. Trust it. Because it's always right. It's always right. We call whatever we want to call it. The gut feeling, you know, people have intuition. They have many different names. But when I look back, my body was always the telltale sign. It was always the telltale sign in my childhood, in my young adolescence, in my clinical years.

It was always the sign and I did not trust it. I would, well, it's always correct. It's always correct.

Julie Granger (1:08:44)
body is correct.

always.

I know. just to our point of mislabeling, it's where the label can really steer us astray as medical providers, but also just as people who exist as, you mentioned, it's like the autoimmune condition. You see the underpinnings, the energetic, the emotional, the spiritual underpinnings there, which also you couldn't have seen without walking through the fire in the dark.

Ashley Martinez (1:09:15)
Definitely.

Julie Granger (1:09:15)
And

how many times did something get labeled as a ⁓ physical problem? How many times have we done it to our patients too? ⁓ huge lesson to learn. And there wasn't an opportunity for the story to be told beyond the symptoms, the signs, the tests, the measures, the diagnosis, the treatment.

Ashley Martinez (1:09:28)
yes.

Julie Granger (1:09:41)
I like, it's like your body, it's your soul knocking. It's sort of like, hi, hello, can I get a word in? And yes, I mean, we're not saying every physical condition, you get strep throat, you get like a disease that's because the guy next to you was sick on the plane. Like that's not a spiritual crisis. Exactly.

Ashley Martinez (1:09:47)
Mm-hmm.

But there's always imbalance, right? There's

imbalance. Your body is speaking to you. Hey, I was vulnerable to this. I was vulnerable to this. So I feel like there's always communication happening. But no, I would have never saw that had I not gone through my own as well as did it to many patients, many patients, which I feel like I would be remiss.

Julie Granger (1:10:04)
Yes, exactly.

Ashley Martinez (1:10:20)
to not point that out in my early clinical years. Like, you know, we're taught to come out of school borderline arrogant. We're taught to come out and have that authority of you went to school, you learned this, you are the expert. And I've gotten so much farther away from that because I don't like seeing that in other clinicians. I do not like when clinicians approach their patients authoritatively.

Julie Granger (1:10:27)
Mmm.

Ashley Martinez (1:10:47)
I mean, we do need ⁓ some semblance situations arise, you know, that's in every workspace where we need to bring up the authority. There's a little bit, a little bit in men and women, so I gotta put that hat on sometimes, you know, in certain circumstances with the men, but, and with some women. But again, I feel like...

Julie Granger (1:10:55)
There is a power dynamic going on. it's, it is there. It has to happen. Yeah.

Hmm?

Ashley Martinez (1:11:10)
that has shifted dramatically in my practice, dramatically. Because if I can't sit in front of a person and say, you know what, I don't know, let me read a little bit about that and get back to you. Or I do know this person and they're phenomenal with that, let me send you their way. If I don't have the self-awareness to do that, I would not consider anyone a good advocate.

clinician or otherwise, practitioner, it doesn't matter. You're supposed to be advocating for your person. That's part of the job. I did not have that in the beginning.

Julie Granger (1:11:44)
I know. The only thing that I'm really grateful for, coming back to our very first conversation, was I worked with kids. And you have a nine-year-old. Nine was one of my favorite ages, by the way. I couldn't get anywhere. I couldn't get to the asking the clinical questions on a PT evaluation unless I took the time and the energy to the word is establish rapport, but truly to be like,

Hey, we are friends, me and this nine-year-old, she trusts me. And I had the magic touch of getting kids to come out of their shell, the shyest kids, the most defiant kids, the kids who were like, no, I'm not talking. And I feel like that has carried me forward in all the different iterations of work I do. So there was some luck there, in a way. Maybe I chose it on purpose, because I was already curious about people.

Ashley Martinez (1:12:10)
Yes!

Thank

Well,

skills, certainly.

Julie Granger (1:12:32)
But you're right about, mean, once I got through there, I was like, all right, we're do all these tests and we're gonna like, I'm gonna sit and explain to you what all these things are and give you your prescription of exercise and therapy and manual things and blah, blah, blah. And there was this, it was such a, I look back with such compassion, right? On how much I was getting from that myself, like, I feel so powerful and smart and.

I'm the accomplished

Ashley Martinez (1:12:56)
No.

Julie Granger (1:12:56)
one, I'm certain, and look at me, I'm the doctor now. And also, it was so satisfying, and then it became heavy, right? Would you agree? It's sort of like, is exhausting.

Ashley Martinez (1:13:05)
Yeah.

for me, it was a total reflection of how I was raised. Like that validation through accolades, that validation through whatever you want to call it, you know, love, adoration, all of that. I see that now, but I don't see that before. And it does get heavy. It's exhausting.

Julie Granger (1:13:12)
Mm.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, because people don't work like that at the end of the day. Like people want you, even if they don't have the words for it or the wherewithal to answer the question, so how are you actually feeling about this? Something in there, they want to be seen as a human. Even if it's a nine-year-old where I'm saying, hey, let's just talk about Taylor Swift for a little bit before we even get going, you know? And she's like, my God, you're the coolest, right? That's seeing someone as a human and actually bringing it back to the very beginning.

Ashley Martinez (1:13:27)
No. No.

us.

Julie Granger (1:13:53)
That's not small talk. I didn't ask her about the weather, or maybe I did, right? And we talked about how we both got caught in a rainstorm one time and it was fun, actually, and we enjoyed splashing in the puddles. That's humid, right? Yeah.

Ashley Martinez (1:13:55)
Oroa!

connection.

Julie Granger (1:14:06)
What a grateful circle way this conversation just went. I love when that happens. All right. Speaking of fun and speaking of connection and speaking of not small talk, although it kind of is, our final segment is the lightning round, which are five seemingly innocuous questions. ⁓ And your job, I love that you didn't prepare for this anyway, but your job is to go with your gut.

Ashley Martinez (1:14:16)
boy.

Okay.

Okay.

Julie Granger (1:14:28)
It

doesn't have to be perfect, doesn't have to be life-changing answers, although some of the questions are kind of deep. Okay, so five questions, you ready for them? All right, number one. If you could be any animal other than a human, what would it be and why?

Ashley Martinez (1:14:33)
Bye-bye.

Ready?

I've answered this before. I would totally be a dog and it's because I want to experience complete unconditional love.

Julie Granger (1:14:47)
I know.

I know. Cause you're worthy of it. Hmm, me too.

Ashley Martinez (1:14:51)
⁓ I want

somebody to like scratch my ears and just want to rub on me all day.

Julie Granger (1:14:56)
Right?

my gosh, my dogs. When I was on the couch with the journal and the tears and the things this morning, both dogs were in my lap. Totally there, just like, hey, we got you.

Ashley Martinez (1:15:02)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. want somebody to love me because I'm like fuzzy and cute. Yeah. Yeah.

Julie Granger (1:15:09)
Yeah, yeah, right. ⁓

man. Okay. If you could get a beverage of any kind with two people dead or alive, who would they be?

Ashley Martinez (1:15:20)
man.

Brene Brown has to be one. She has to be one.

Julie Granger (1:15:22)
Mm-hmm.

Ashley Martinez (1:15:23)
I would really love to meet Jay Shetty. I would love to meet him. I would love to pick his brain. I want Brene on one side, Jay on the other side.

Julie Granger (1:15:25)
Yeah.

That would be a powerful conversation. Yeah.

Ashley Martinez (1:15:34)
I'll

be crying for the rest of the week, but yeah, I would love, would love.

Julie Granger (1:15:40)
So

good. Amazing. Okay. Brené Brown and Jay Shetty, if you're listening, please bring Ashley onto your podcast, by the way. Amazing. All right, number three. Does pineapple belong on pizza?

Ashley Martinez (1:15:45)
huh. This comes full circle. Wheeling, West Virginia.

the

No.

Julie Granger (1:15:56)
No. Is it all sweet and salty mixture, not a fan or fruit and

Ashley Martinez (1:16:01)
I'm

not a fan of like, I'm gonna say like sweetened meat, but something about putting sweet on pizza does not, it doesn't resonate.

Julie Granger (1:16:09)
What about like fig jam? You know those pizzas that are like... Okay.

Ashley Martinez (1:16:12)
I could do that. Yeah,

I could do that. Or like sweet balsamic. I could do that. Yeah.

Julie Granger (1:16:17)
Some more of the fruity maybe. Yeah.

Yeah, that's my favorite question. It's very polarizing. It's always a yes or no. I think I've had two people who are like, maybe, I don't know, I don't care, know, whatever. No real preference. Anyway, I'm team yes for what it's worth, but I can see why it's a no. I'm like, yeah, I totally get that.

Ashley Martinez (1:16:27)
⁓ yeah.

me.

To be wishy washy would be the red flag for me. Which you to pick.

Julie Granger (1:16:37)
Exactly. You gotta know.

All right. Number four. I'm a fly on the wall at your house on a Friday night. What's going on?

Ashley Martinez (1:16:45)
You would totally be laughing. Okay, so my daughter stays with her father on Friday nights. So that is my night to not cook. ⁓ Yeah, I am gluten free very recently. So I usually get something like a burger with no bun, you know, not super exciting, but I get my food out. I bring it home. I read a book that's not intellectual because I never do that.

Julie Granger (1:16:53)
Peace.

Ashley Martinez (1:17:10)
And then I would show you, but it's a disaster over there. have, ⁓ you're going to laugh. I have a PEMF mat. I don't know if you have one. Yeah. So now that the light is going down later, I would take a walk around my neighborhood. I would come home. I would take a hot shower. I would lay on my PEMF mat and I would have all my candles on. Remember, I live alone, single mom. could do these things.

Julie Granger (1:17:17)
Amazing. No, I know what you're talking about.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Ashley Martinez (1:17:32)
all my candles on and I would totally be either if it's been a crazy long day friends would be on in the background. And if it's been like a decent day where I feel rejuvenated, I would be listening to some sort of podcast while I lay on my PMF mat and do my lower extremity mobility and my I call them my lovey dovey stretches where like it's good, you know, like things that I don't get to do throughout the day.

Julie Granger (1:17:39)
Yes

What a joyful and like, so you, like, ritual situation. This is amazing.

Ashley Martinez (1:18:01)
I love it.

I love it so

much and as the weather gets nicer, that would all take place on my enclosed patio, which is my favorite place in the house. Yes, yes, yes. So not exciting. That is my evening jam. That is what I live for.

Julie Granger (1:18:18)
Ashley, I'm very excited by this. I think it's very sexy.

Ashley Martinez (1:18:20)
I'm

so glad. It feels just amazing.

Julie Granger (1:18:25)
This sounds amazing. I want to kick my husband out and be like, get out. We're to put up the candles. We're

going to lay on the mat. Amazing. All right, final question. What is, you might've already told us, but what is a hidden pleasure or obsession of yours that people might find surprising, weird, quirky, or questionable?

Ashley Martinez (1:18:33)
time.

I have so many quirky things. ⁓ but, I love to dance. I'm a salsa dancer. So that I, if I had the opportunity, I would be doing it like on a weekly basis. But again, I live in Wheeling, West Virginia. So I do not have the opportunity, but yeah, I don't know if that's quirky, but I'm, I'm like, wannabe Latina. Like I am a white girl mishmash, but

Julie Granger (1:19:04)
See you!

Mm. Mm-hmm.

Ashley Martinez (1:19:09)
Yeah, I would totally. I think that's probably why I married a Latin man. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. Yeah. Yeah. Dancing.

Julie Granger (1:19:13)
Mm, okay, okay. I love it. So maybe

some salsa by yourself, which is kind of weird, but on Friday night. Why not?

Ashley Martinez (1:19:20)
⁓ yeah, I totally,

music, big thing, big fan, big fan. Usually more so when I'm like driving and then I get myself in trouble because I start to drive fast because I'm dancing in the car.

Julie Granger (1:19:26)
amazing.

Ashley Martinez (1:19:33)
many times.

Julie Granger (1:19:33)
Mmm.

There's the spicy side. I love this. It's like moderate spice, you know?

Ashley Martinez (1:19:39)
handful of tickets, probably more than that.

Julie Granger (1:19:42)
bringing it to morality. nobody died. I'm not advocating for driving unsafely, but I mean, you were fully living.

Ashley Martinez (1:19:49)
agree.

Julie Granger (1:19:49)
You were fully alive in that moment, which, you know, I advocate for. Sometimes rules are suggestions. I'm glad you were safe.

Ashley Martinez (1:19:53)
Yes.

in that circumstance.

They probably saw me dancing. That's probably why they, yeah.

Julie Granger (1:20:00)
Yeah. They're probably like, this is going to be a good one. Did you tell them? Were you like, so sorry, I was kind of dancing.

Ashley Martinez (1:20:02)
No,

I use to

try to get out of tickets and I don't anymore because I never get out of them ever, ever. So I'm just like, yep, I know what I was doing. Okay. Where do I sign? And that's it.

Julie Granger (1:20:13)
Right.

Can we just get on with this? It's fair. Again, just owning who you are. love that. well, Ashley, thank you so much for sharing your story and the wisdom that's in your story and the vulnerability and just who you are with the world. I'm so grateful that you are here. Tell us one more thing.

Ashley Martinez (1:20:20)
Yeah, I got things to do. Let's go.

Thanks.

Julie Granger (1:20:40)
How do we stay in touch? What's coming up for you? What do want me to put in the show notes that people can click on if they feel connected to you?

Ashley Martinez (1:20:46)
So I work for WVU medicine. That's my full-time job as a public or physical therapist. But my passion job, my hopefully one day full-time job is feminine and flourishing. I'm an integrative nutrition health coach. I specialize in peri- and post-menopausal women. And I'm going to say micro specialty is autoimmune conditions because that's what I have. Yeah.

Julie Granger (1:20:51)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Cause you've been there.

Ashley Martinez (1:21:11)
been there and I'm gonna be there.

that is my cup of tea. Upcoming goals for 2026 is to start my own podcast. And that is absolutely terrifying to me. So we'll see how that goes. I do not have a website to share with you quite yet because again, side hustle for now is the help thing. That is also a 2026 goal.

Julie Granger (1:21:32)
Yeah.

Awesome!

Ashley Martinez (1:21:36)
Yes, so hopefully those will be coming down the pike. If you'd like to get a hold of me, I prefer email and or text. so yeah, yeah, I don't know if I'm to say that out loud or if I send you that later.

Julie Granger (1:21:44)
Amazing. Very good.

You can send it to me later. Yeah, for sure. I don't know who's listening. So, well, thank you for being here. It's been such a pleasure. we, I will, I don't know about who the we are, whoever's listening, we'll cheer you on in 2026. Awesome.

Ashley Martinez (1:21:51)
Okay. Yeah.

Thank you, thank you.