Yoga For Trauma: The Inner Fire of Yoga

Trauma to Trust: Todd McLaughlin on Trauma-Informed Yoga, Cults, and Gurus | Ep 18

• Liz Albanis - Senior Yoga Teacher • Season 1 • Episode 18

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In this episode, host Liz Albanis speaks with Todd McLaughlin about his inspiring yoga journey. Todd shares his story of religious cults, near death experiences. To navigating challenges within the yoga community, including cult-like dynamics.

Todd brings more than two decades of lived yoga experience.

This conversation dives  into the dark  side of spiritual practice. Questioning the glorification of pain, the idolisation of teachers, and the unconscious patterns many carry into their yoga journeys. Todd reflects on what it means to evolve beyond performative practice and into one grounded in intention, integrity, and nervous system awareness.

Key Takeaways

  • Why glorifying pain in yoga can reinforce trauma rather than heal it
  • How Todd’s near-death experience radically shifted his approach to practice
  • Cult dynamics in yoga communities and the danger of spiritual hierarchy
  • The subtle trauma of "pushing through" and proving your worth through intensity
  • Why intention matters more than perfection in your daily practice
  • The importance of staying curious and continuously questioning your "why"

Todd McLaughlin, founder and director of Native Yoga Center in Juno Beach,  for the past 19 years. With a global teaching background spanning the United States, Australia, Thailand, and India, Todd brings a wealth of experience to his students. He is an Experienced Registered Yoga Teacher (E-RYT 500) with Yoga Alliance and has studied extensively with some of the most respected teachers in the world. His Ashtanga training includes studies with K. Pattabhi Jois and Sharath Jois in Mysore, India, as well as years of mentorship with Tim Miller at the Ashtanga Yoga Center, where Todd completed teacher trainings in the Primary, Second, and Third Series. He also holds an advanced 800-hour certification in Philosophy, History, and Literature of Yoga from the late Georg Feuerstein, Ph.D., and Brenda Feuerstein. Todd additionally completed Bikram Yoga Teacher Training in 2001 and directed a Bikram Yoga College of India in San Diego before returning to his hometown of Jupiter, Florida to establish Native Yoga Center.
Todd is also the host of the internationally acclaimed Native Yoga Toddcast, a podcast exploring yoga, spirituality, and wellness with inspiring voices from around the world.

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I'm just really grateful, I'm still here. I'm so glad I made it through some of those tough times, because there's really so much to, to be thankful for. A lot of us really would love to find someone that we could put all of our trust in and have them fix us and heal us. But I just don't even believe that's possible. I believe that has to come from within. I believe we all have to walk the journey. And when you investigate these, like guru folk, they are struggling. They grew up with trauma. They've been traumatized as well, and they're just perpetuating the trauma.

Welcome to The Inner Fire of Yoga, a podcast about transformation, resilience, and the power of yoga beyond the mat. I'm Liz Albanis, senior yoga teacher and yoga therapist in training. This podcast was born in 2024 after I survived my second fire. Fire has been a recurring theme in my [00:01:00] life, not just in the literal sense, but as a metaphor. It has asked me to burn away what no longer serves me to transform and to rise stronger each time. This podcast is about that fire, the one that challenges us, but also fuels us to grow.

Before you start listening, please use caution. This episode includes a discussion on near death experiences, religious cults, sexual and physical abuse in the modern yoga world, and could be distressing for some listeners. If you find yourself feeling triggered during this episode, please treat yourself with care and compassion I am not a licensed mental health practitioner and. This podcast is not a substitute for professional mental health advice, treatment, or assessment. The advice given in this episode or any other is general in [00:02:00] nature. If you're struggling, please see a qualified mental health professional or call lifeline if you're in Australia. One three triple one, four. The views and opinions expressed by guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the host Liz Albanis. The content shared in these conversations is intended for informational and educational purposes only, and it is not suitable for listeners under the age of 18. Please use discretion and consult a qualified professional before making changes to your health or wellness routines.

It's my pleasure today to introduce you to Todd McLaughlin. He is the founder and director of a native yoga Center in Juno Beach, Florida in the United States of America. He has been dedicated to teaching and sharing yoga for over

Two [00:03:00] decades since opening the studio in 2006, he has cultivated a thriving community, rooted in tradition, consistency, and personal connection. All from the same beloved location for the past 19 years. 

With a global teaching background spanning the United States, Australia, Thailand, and India. Todd brings a wealth of experience to his students. He is an experienced registered yoga teacher, ERYT 500 with Yoga Alliance, and has studied extensively with some of the most respected teachers in the world. His Ashtanga training includes studies with K Pattabhi Jois and Sharath [00:04:00] Jois in Mysore, India. As well as years of mentorship with Tim Miller at the Ashtanga Yoga Center, where Todd completed teacher trainings in the primary, second and third series. He also holds an advanced 800 hour certification in philosophy, history, and literature of yoga from the late Georg Feuerstein, PhD, which I no doubt have not pronounced correctly. Todd additionally completed the Bikram Yoga teacher training in 2001 and directed a Bikram Yoga College of India studio in San Diego. Before returning to his hometown of Jupiter Florida to establish Native [00:05:00] Yoga Center. Todd is also the host of the Internationally Acclaimed Native Yoga podcast. It's a podcast exploring yoga, spirituality, and wellness with inspiring voices from all around the world. His show has featured renowned teachers and thought leaders such as David Swensen, Dharma, Mitra. Judith Hanson Lasseter, Matthew Sweeney, and many more. Offering listeners an intimate look into the wisdom and journeys of some of today's most respected practitioners.

Complimenting his yoga teaching. Todd has been a licensed massage therapist since 2000. And is certified in traditional Thai massage through the International [00:06:00] Massage School in Shang Mai, Thailand. He is also a dedicated practitioner of Vipasana meditation as taught by SN Goenka. Again, I may have mispronounced that one. Apologies. Bringing mindfulness and depth to his teaching at Native Yoga Center, Todd offers a full spectrum of classes, including Ashtanga Yoga, native Vinyasa flow, gentle and restorative yoga and Thai massage certification courses. Through his longstanding commitment to yoga, education, practice, and community.

Along with his influential podcast, he has established himself as a trusted leader in the field, guiding students locally and globally in the art and [00:07:00] discipline of yoga. He is a wonderful podcast host. He made me feel welcome and at home. He's a friendly, approachable man who remains humble, as you'll see from this interview, as he's learned from others what not to do and how not to act.

Welcome, Todd, to the show. So good to have. Thank you. Yeah, thank you Liz. I'm so happy to be here. I appreciate it. Oh, no, I appreciate having you, someone so highly regarded on the show. So, all the way from Florida and what else has impressed me is you've lived in Australia.

I did for five years, yes. Yeah. So a WA of all places where a lot of us have not been. I've been there a few times, but people like my father who's travelled all over the world, sadly, [00:08:00] has never been there. Because news, it's funny, isn't it? Yeah. It's interesting. In Australia, not a lot of folks will go over to WA Yeah. Or, and they won't come to the bush capital where I am in Canberra because it's boring. Even though it's the capital. But I disagree. So, it's good. It's great. You've lived here in Australia. You've had a very interesting life. So, before we get to your personal yoga journey, you've been through some tough times with what I've seen from one of your podcast episodes where someone interviewed you.

With a near death experience and maybe some other traumatic experiences, can you just share what you're happy to about those experiences and how they shaped your life? [00:09:00] Yeah. I would be more than happy to, you know, in the process of thinking about my past and, you know, the older I get, the more I like to look back and get information from, uh, what my childhood, my upbringing, what my experiences were in the past, and make sense of where I am and what I'm doing currently.

And so, uh, that process, you know, one of the key moments that I feel had a huge impact on me was, uh, I had a pretty, uh, tragic fall, um, from fairly high where I landed on my back. In two inches of water and was taken to the hospital, you know, via stretcher. And it, uh, it was such a hard hit that it, , impacted my back. I was 13, around 13, 14, and. Uh, you know, the experience of getting hit so [00:10:00] hard where you, you kind of lose consciousness and have had an experience of feeling like, okay, this is it, you know, this is, I'm dying. And, um, and to not die and, uh, wake up in the hospital and, and, uh. And it was just a, a big moment.

It, it had a huge impact on me. And then, uh, at the time, the doctors were amazed that I survived and that I wasn't in a wheelchair. And I just kind of moved on. And, and now in my later years where I am, uh, working through managing back pain, uh, it, you know, that remembering what I had, what had happened and why, what type of type of effect that probably had on my back at the time, and just the process of aging and having those old injuries come up to the surface, 

Is it really enlightening for me now to just accept that and, uh, you know, , I've gone through a lot of just [00:11:00] trying to push through the pain and I've been through a lot of different yoga trainings where pushing through the pain was encouraged and I now, as I'm continuing on my yoga journey, I'm learning more and more how to take care of myself and honour my edge.

And so, it's been an incredible ride. Yeah. Yeah. I've, I can't imagine what that would be like to have that sort of experience, especially at such a young age. I mean, I've fallen off horses many times and I'm got back pain as a result now. Mm-hmm. Arthritis in S3 And I've never fallen off and lost consciousness or been near death, just bad pain.

So that I can see why that would definitely shape your life. Yeah, definitely. Those sort of experiences have a profound impact. I've had other pretty incredible [00:12:00] experiences when I was living in WA there is a place called Conspicuous Cliffs down near town called Walpole on the south coast. And I had met someone who took me surfing at this balmy which is, like a really heavy wave and no one around.

And I'd been, I got held down for a really long time where I thought, this is it. This is cool. Another one. This is, yeah. Uh, that was a really intense one too, and I came outta that one. You know, every time we have these experiences where. We push ourselves. I was, I'm a bit of an adrenaline junkie and Uhhuh and I tend to push myself into places where it makes me feel alive, but it's also very edgy.

And when we start to analyse, well, why do I do that? You know, why, why am I seeking that type of thrill? You know, that's where when I express or talk about like my, my childhood and I look back at some of the trauma I experienced as a kid, it makes more sense to me [00:13:00] now why I was so reckless. You know, if you experience traumatic events and you are, uh, either have like post-traumatic from it, , or you're just not settled and then you don't feel like, yeah, you just don't feel connected and you, I sought out these sort of experiences that put me on the edge.

The first time that I fell, I was on a, a really large rope swing. And it was just a thrill to do, but it was extremely dangerous. So, these sort of things, um, it's interesting when I analyse like, how come some people don't do that? Why don't they push themselves so hard? You know, like, how can they just take a nice casual approach and they're okay with, you know, just feeling comfortable just being happy and going about life.

And I had always had to push things to the nth degree, so I'm grateful for that. I'm really grateful for it. Actually, I'm glad that I had these really challenging experiences, to be honest, because it made life very interesting. [00:14:00] But definitely, yeah, as a parent and growing up and watching my own children and, and luckily with age, we, we gained wisdom in my opinion.

So I, I think uh, I'm just really grateful. I'm still here. I'm really happy to be here and I'm so glad I made it through some of those tough times because there's really so much , to be thankful for. Uh, I'm so glad you did too. And yeah, it's good to have gratitude for it and it's shaped you. It's, I believe these things happen for a reason.

I have faith. Yeah. These things happen for a reason. Perhaps. Maybe I'm no psychologist or no therapist, but I know what it feels like to disassociate as someone who has diagnosed PTSD. Is it maybe 'cause you were feeling numb and you wanted to feel something? I don't know. Yeah, I think there's something to that.

Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah. Yeah. But [00:15:00] unless you got through it. Well, thank you. I agree. We do. That's how we roll. Yeah, that's right. And so at some point after this near death experience , you discovered yoga by chance. Can you talk about that? Yeah. You know, the very first yoga influence that I, uh, came across was I was between 11th and 12th grade and I had the opportunity to visit Hawaii and I came across Rom DA's book, be Here Now.

And I specifically remember opening the book up, looking at the cover, being intrigued, opening the cover, and seeing the picture of Numan, uh oh, Numan holding open his chest and with Rama and Sita seated in his heart. And I was transfixed by the artwork and [00:16:00] I was seeking some sort of solace. And somehow through Ramdas's book, it just spoke to me.

And immediately I had this feeling that. I need to learn about this. Whatever this yoga thing is this is the direction I need to go. And then when, uh, post graduation from high school, I ended up going to University of Florida, which is up in Gainesville, which is like northern part of Florida.

And I was on the plaza and I see these folks with shaved heads, with little tufts of hair on the back of their head, and they're wearing orange ropes and they're playing music and serving free vegetarian food. And I'm like, what is going on over here? And so, as I Started talking and learning. There were Hari Krishna devotees and I, I got introduced, uh, to the world of yoga through the Krishna Consciousness movement and I started going to [00:17:00] classes learning about Bava Gita.

We go to, uh, they performed Kirtan. I started volunteering, working in the kitchen and doing the food prep for, uh, the free food that they would offer on the campus. And, uh, started waking up really early with them at 4:00 AM and walking through the forest chanting Hari Krishna on the Japa Ma. And I just got really intrigued by yoga philosophy and round about the same time I'd heard about a Hatta yoga class where there was yoga posture being practiced.

And I was at that point I was like, give me it all, you know, I want to try everything that has that there is with yoga. And at that time I. I was, I feel like the structure of the class was interesting and it just didn't fully grab me, the, the physical part, the, the Asana yoga part. But, uh, I really got hooked in on the Bava Gita and just found it quite fascinating.

I had grown up in a religious had [00:18:00] a religious upbringing, so I was surrounded with biblical study as a kid all through my life. So I, once I started appreciating comparative religion and comparative philosophy, , that really, really intrigued me and I, and as I started to investigate, uh, Indian philosophy or philosophy coming out of, uh, the Vedic traditions in India, I was just so enamoured with the depth and breadth of ideas that were conveyed, and I found it extremely helpful for me to make sense of my.

Upbringing, once I started to do comparative analysis and get a bigger picture, , , a more global understanding of what is spirituality, why do we have religion? What is the basis of religion and all these different ideas. So that was my first introduction. And then, I quite a few years went by before. I had gone to Australia. When I was living in, uh, [00:19:00] Western Australia, I was working, doing blue gum plantation work. So, I was working as a tree planter for a reforestation company. And then I also worked in the viticulture industry, uh, picking, pruning, planting in, uh, grapevines.

So that's very physically demanding. Oh yeah. And like, you know, being out in the wintertime, out in the vineyards with the gumboot on and the full rain gear and squatting down pruning or doing whatever we're doing, V on each vine, standing up, moving over two feet, squatting down, and doing that over and over and over again.

It's very physically demanding and difficult on the body. And I had tweaked my neck really bad. Oh yeah. And I went to a physiotherapist in WA and uh, at that point that person used the combination of massage therapy and dry needling and or like an acupuncture style work. And my neck felt amazing right after, which really intrigued me about the body and [00:20:00] alternative medicine.

I was fascinated at that point. So, having my whole experience in Australia kind of, um, come to a close and I moved back to. Florida. I went to massage therapy school in Miami and I was just wanting to get involved in learning about the body, learning about muscle, muscles, musculoskeletal anatomy. I was really fascinated by that and started practicing massage therapy.

And at that timeI went to take a cro yoga class, which is like hot yoga. Oh yeah. How I started. Yeah. Yes, yes. Right. That's how a lot of us started. I mean, Bikram yoga was popular, popularised big thing. A big thing all over the world. I mean, it was a huge trend, I would say. And, at that, that's when I really connected to a Hatha yoga practice, uh, a physical asana practice.

And I found it transformative. I absolutely loved it. I dove [00:21:00] in head first and started practicing twice a day and just, oh, twice a day. Wow. Yeah. Hydrated. I, I'm a little extreme. Yeah. And so I, a little, so I, I just loved it though. It just made me feel like I could really connect with my body and I, I love surfing and so I surfed When I lived in Australia, part of the whole reason I enjoyed living in Australia so much was to surf in Western Australia is absolutely amazing.

Like between Margaret River, Maine Break and Cuma Bay and yelling up, and I travelled up through like to the some of the breaks, like Nalu and Red Bluff up in the north part of Western Australia and got a chance to surf all over and, and, uh, coming back to Florida. Florida's like very dreary when it comes to surf.

We hardly get any ways. Oh, really? In comparison to Australia. Yeah. Oh, right. I, we do, occasionally we'll have like two or three days a year where it's epic, but most of the time it's really flat. So I was going through a little bit of a adrenaline [00:22:00] withdrawal. You know, 'cause I, I got so much energy from being in the ocean in Australia that coming back to Florida, I was a little bit, I don't know if depressed is the right word, but, you know, you get a little, like when you used to having that type of energy experience, I, I found yoga and doing the hot tea yoga really replaced that for me.

It just made me feel challenged. And the amount of intensity with the heat, I felt like every class really took me to a place where I just didn't think I was gonna make it. And then you do and you're like, oh my God, I feel so great after. So, that, that's kind of how I started. I mean, I, I have more to tell you.

I don't want to keep just talking and talking and talking. I'll see if you have any thoughts about, about what I said, but, , but , yeah, that was, that's kind of how my evolution in the first, uh, 10 or 15 years of my practice got, got started. , It's interesting how you started, you found yoga in a different way to most of us in this modern world with.

You know, Kirtan and the philosophy [00:23:00] rather than the physical practice of Hatha yoga. Uh, so I think that's great. But if you were raised in a religious family, did, how did that go? Because did that confuse you? I mean, some people, say yoga is a religion. I tend to agree with Dr. Timothy McCall, author of yoga as Medicine, in that it's as religious as alcoholics anonymous.

It, just depends on you. It can be as religious as you want. It depends on which path you take. And many people, like my late mother who was devout Catholic, went to church every Sunday until she got too ill still practiced yoga. Yeah. So I mean, how did you find that? Oh, I, well, because I grew up in, or well, I, I [00:24:00] was raised Catholic and so went through all that stuff of confirmation and communion and all that, all that stuff like me.

Yeah. And then you did too. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And then, and then my family started switching over toward the more kind of extreme Pentecostal,  experiences where I witnessed people going into the realm of like doing, laying on of hands and speaking in tongues and Wow. Pretty wild stuff when you're a kid and you see people like, you know, bouncing all around on the floor, like they're possessed by some spirit and people holding their hands over them and ch chanting in some sort of made up mumbo jumbo and then all of a sudden the person's I'm healed.

And, I witnessed that as a kid. Um. And always was a little like, what is going on here? You know, like I, I thought it was cool to some extent. I was super intrigued, but I just also was kind of like always a little sceptical. And so I was bit of a [00:25:00] rebel in the sense that for me studying, uh, yoga history, philosophy and religion it, or, or Indian or Hindu or some of the different religions that come out of India, uh, for me it was just a breath of fresh air to realize there's a bigger picture and to not get so.

Uh, caught up in all of the weird stuff that comes with religion, in my opinion. So, does it conflict? Uh, I mean, you know, it's funny because, because we got involved, or my folks and my family got involved in that sort of Pentecostal stuff at one point, I love music, so they were like, look, you gotta get rid of all of your music.

That's all satanic, all rock and roll. Music is all evil. And I was into martial arts and Taekwondo. They're like, look, anything from the east is evil. You gotta smash your karate trophies. You gotta kind of separate yourself from everything that's outside of this little bubble, which is [00:26:00] kind of the definition of a cult.

You know, like when you get wrapped up in a cult hings are banned from you because they're nervous that you are going to have your mind exposed to different things and you'll, and you'll question. So, I was always, I was, I was always a questioner. I always ask questions. And so, I feel like for me, being exposed to yoga was extremely helpful to come to a more grounded place in my own personal understanding of spirituality and religion.

So, I would say did it conflict? No, I really don't think so. I'd only enhance. Saved you maybe. Yeah. Yeah. True, true and now interestingly enough though, when you hang out in the yoga world, you also come into a lot of cult like scenarios. Yeah. Cults exist in every single culture.

I mean, uh, or every religion, every, anytime people are getting together. I think the main thing, my, my approach now is open-minded scepticism. I keep a very open mind. I, I want [00:27:00] to constantly explore and try to expose myself to as much as possible. And I'm also very sceptical. I look at everything with scepticism and, and I try to balance this open-minded, sceptical approach, uh, now as I move forward.

Because once you are involved in some sort of cult-like setting, and then you reform or you kind of come out of it and you can appreciate what how, uh, negative that can be. And, and you go through the work of, of being when you know when you're programmed and you deprogram yourself and you can be, feel balanced again.

It, every time I go into a group now or any sort of setting, I have these red flag alerts that go off all the time. Like, , when I practice with Bikram. I had a ton of red flag alerts, like when I, so I, I went to his cro yoga teacher training at La Cienega Boulevard out in Beverly Hills, California in 2000.

And, um, there were so sort of thing [00:28:00] red flag moments watching him in the way that he interacted with the students. And it never sat well with me. And I, so I found myself in that environment being like, wow, man, I paid all this money for this training and I really love the yoga. Yeah. But the culture, the cult of it was so extreme.

And so, yeah, there's people that just worshiped him and still do, um, still do regardless of his behavior. Uhhuh. The listeners who are not familiar, uh, Bikram Choudry is the founder of Bikram Yoga. Some people credit the sequence to his guru Bosh, and he's, um, good job. There's warrant out for his arrest and the USA, because he's a convicted felon, one of them being rape.

Mm-hmm. Among other things. And there's even a Netflix [00:29:00] documentary on him and there's also a book called Hell Bent from Memory about the training because it's a sort of training that. They try to break you from what I've heard with sleep deprivation, dehydration, people end up in the hospital. Yes. Any, oh my God, so extreme, Liz.

It was, I mean, I met when I was there, experienced all that, that you're talking about. And there were, people that had gone through bootcamp with Army Rangers, which is, you know, known to be relatively hard. Very hard, yeah. Very intense. And they said that Bikram yoga teacher training was more difficult than any of the stuff that they encountered in military training.

So, um, yeah, it was, it was an extreme experience. I, I have so much, so many thoughts about it. Oh my gosh. It was intense. It was [00:30:00] intense. I, I'm grateful for the opportunity that I had. I, I truly am. I'm glad I was there. But I, and I think probably now looking back, I am, I'm really glad I had the experience I had with Beron because it taught me a lot about yoga, but it also taught me a lot about how I don't wanna be Yeah, true.

You, if you observe behaviour that is unhealthy and, um, downright mean, and you watch how that power dynamic goes with people that, uh, believe a guru is higher than them. Yeah. When we put a, a person on a pedestal and we think that this person has achieved some sort of enlightenment, stage of enlightenment that, that I'm aspiring to, and then that person feeds off of that power and it creates this incredible dynamic that I'm really glad I saw it [00:31:00] firsthand.

As a yoga teacher, it makes me, very aware that I do not want any students to cultivate or for me to cultivate in them any of that. I'm hyper alert to that now and. I think it's important to be as real as possible all the time. And if a student says something like, oh wow, that's so great, or You're so amazing, you know, I typically just boom, you cut that down right away.

No, I'm just normal. Like you, I'm, I have pain just like you. I am trying to learn every day something new. Just, you know what I mean? And I think that's really important. Yeah. That beginners mind. Yeah. Constantly. Because we see this a lot in these traditions and it's, um, I, I know it's, it's very seductive. It's very enticing.

A lot of us really would love to find someone that we could put all of our trust in , and have [00:32:00]them fix us and heal us, but. I just don't even believe that's possible. I don't believe anybody else can actually heal us. I believe that has to come from within. I believe we all have to walk the journey.

And when you investigate these, like guru folk, they are struggling. They grew up with trauma. They've been traumatized as well, and they're just perpetuating the trauma. And, you know, I have huge red flags when I see these guru cult-like status with people. I can appreciate what they have to say and, and read their books and be like, oh, that's really nice.

You know, but I really, um, gravitate or attracted to folks that are really down to earth and just human humble. Yeah. Yeah. Practice a za uhhuh. Yes, I'm grateful that my first teacher training there was a big emphasis on, Ahimsa a non-violence towards yourself and others. Complete [00:33:00] opposite to the Bikram training where it's just make or break you and I mean, some good, uh, I, I trying not to be black and white because good has come out of it.

Yeah. I'm still grateful for it. Like you. Yeah. Yeah. Any other words to elaborate on the training? Oh, well, I mean, I had, uh, uh, so I. Was really wanting to be a good student. This is like, I, when I'm, when I go for something, I, I really put my all into it. So I thought being a really good student would mean standing right up at the front, right next to oh, and, and trying really hard.

So I, on day one, I'm right up on the front, right up next to him and we're holding standing head to knee, which is the one where you have, you're on one leg, you interlace [00:34:00] your fingers, you catch your foot, you kick your foot out in front of you, you round your back, you touch your head on your knee, you pull your elbows in and all that sort of stuff.

So, I'm holding that one, which is a difficult pose to hold in like, oh man. Yeah. You know, for longer than say 15 seconds. And so. You know, the, his classes could run upward of like two, two and a half hours. Oh really? When you do the 90 minute sequence, normally you're, you know, you're in there for 90 minutes.

Well, the room, uh, was, uh, he literally had turbines, sounding engines to create the heat in the room. So, when you'd walk, when you'd walk in, you could hear this like, like sound of the engines turning on, and then a straight up heat comes down outta the ceiling. So intense. So the moment you even walked into the room, you were drenched.

Like you, it was so really. People were bringing thermometers in, and I know we have the discrepancy between Celsius and [00:35:00] Fahrenheit, but people were measuring it was getting up to like 1 20, 1 25 Fahrenheit and humid. So where is that in Celsius? Is that like, oh, it doesn't matter. Five or 50 degrees, maybe 55 degrees?

I don't know, but so, um, it's still hot. It's, we'll, we'll double check. It's hotter than you should be the hottest style of yoga. Oh my gosh. It was like full on hot sweat box style. So, and he's going, come on man. Come on boss. Come on boss. Straighten your leg, boss. What's your problem? Boss? Kick up. Kick up, hold you.

And he'd hold, come on. More, more, more, more, more. Kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick, kick. And he'd be like driving you with his voice. And so he'd hold, try to get you to hold there for like one minute, one minute, 30 seconds. And so you're, so I'm up at the front and I'm trying my best to do it. And immediately I'm not working that hard.

In that intense heat, I started kind of breaking down so that by day three. I was starting to feel really bad. And I remember [00:36:00] going to the back of the room, it was during the lunch break, and I could hear my, you know, like when you start going into de, I dunno if you've ever been in dehydration before, but when you start going into dehydration, your hearing starts to get really weird.

And, and it's, everything's like, wah wah, oh, I haven't gotten that bad. Wow. And I started feeling like I was going back into that tunnel, like I'm falling back and everything's blackout around me. So I'm like, I got to eat. I got to eat. So I'm, I'm in the back and I'm trying to eat food, but I just feel so sick that all of a sudden my body started to cramp up where my fingers started to curl in my toes and feet started to curl in.

And my, everything from my toes and fingers started slowly, my legs and my body. And I was cramping so intensely that I, I flipped and I started screaming like I was, and everyone in the room looked at me like, oh my God, what's happening to this guy? So they ran and they got beat grom. And Bikram came over and I was like in so much pain, I was kind of [00:37:00] riding around on the floor and he put his hand on my chest and he started like shaking me.

And he goes, get up, boss, get up, get up boss. And he's shaking me and I'm like, and he kind of like jolted me out of like, I don't know how or why my body stopped cramping. But I like, gave me a way to kind of like, get out of it. And, and he's like, , get up, get up. And I, and all these people are standing around me and I'm like, I was feeling so miserable.

And I'm like, I can't stand up. But then they, he got me up. And he's like, come with me. And so, I'm walking with him and we're, and he takes me back to the locker room and he's like, boss, he goes, and he just called everybody boss. He's like, yeah, I get why he called people boss. 'cause I thought he would call himself the boss, you know, just funny stuff, man.

He's so out there.And if Bikram, if you're listening to me right now, I mean, or, you know, I would, I, I'm not trying to defame his character, I just wanna just be [00:38:00] honest. This is what happened. So he, um, he then, uh, he was like, you look like a baby when you cry. And I was kind of like, at that point I was so like, oh man, I should have laugh.

I don't even care what you think about me right now. Like, why do you think I, and, and he's like, you're the kind of person that's going to get me sued. And I'm like. What I'm like, I'm just trying my hardest man, and you had me holding my leg out there for 90 seconds and yelling at me in the heat, and now you're like thinking I'm gonna sue you.

I'm like, what? And so, I just felt so miserable. So, I got back to my room and I, I was so sick that I should have, they should have called an ambulance and I could have gotten an iv and had I just gotten an IV and some fluids, I mean, I would've felt a lot better. But, and here's kind of the twisted part. I get back to the room down at  where we were staying and I had roommates.

I they, they've set us up with accommodation down near Venice Beach area and, um, nice part of la a fun part of la [00:39:00] Yeah, that's a fun part. It really is. Yeah. I like Bend Beach. It's a fun part. Santa Monica and that whole area. Beautiful. It is beautiful. It is a beautiful area. And, , uh, I was so feeling so guilty that I wasn't able to get up and go to class the next day that I called up and I said, look, I'm so sorry.

I'm not gonna, I'm, I'm worried that they're not gonna let me graduate because I'm gonna miss a class. Yeah. So, I called up and I'm like, I'm so sorry. I can't make it today. I feel so rotten. I feel so sick. I can hardly even move right now. I feel so gross. And they're like, okay, it's fine. Don't worry. Just, you know, miss a class or two.

And I'm like, oh, okay. Thank God. But, so then it took me about three days and I got my mojo back, and then I was back in there. But then I, I was like all the way at the back of the room as I bet full of the doors as I could be. And when it came to all those really intense poses holding for that long, I was just like, it pulled me down to ground zero.

So, you know, I think the lesson for me that I got out of it, in [00:40:00] my opinion, that that where I could turn, , lemons into lemonade, was that. I typically go way too hard, too fast. I have this thing where I feel like I have to prove myself, and I, I push way, way too hard, and I am grateful for that opportunity because it caused me to be like, whoa, I, it humbled me big time.

And it was, um, you know, I, I slowly, I, I finished it and I made it to the end. And, then interestingly enough, I came back here to Florida and my wife at the time, we weren't married yet, but Tamara, I was like, whoa, Tamara, that was so intense, man. I was enamoured with it still. So, I was like, you, you should go try.

So, then she went out, she did the training. Yeah, I know, right? So I kind of, I, I kind of, you know, I went for it and so did she. So, then we were teaching how to be crime studio in West Palm, and we had the opportunity to. Someone from West Palm had bought a studio in San Diego and they said, would [00:41:00] you guys like to manage the B Crumb studio in San Diego?

So, we jumped on it, you know, we didn't have kids or major responsibilities, so we went out to, uh, it was in Meira Mesa, which is kind of a little bit inland of, you know, like of, of main downtown San Diego. So, um, we ran the studio there and that, um, I was deeply entrenched in the Bikram yoga world. I mean, so in that bubble?

Yeah, in that bubble. I got brainwashed, so to speak, you know, to the, to the level that I was fe I was scared of Bikram. I, I had fear of him and I think he liked that like many. Yeah. And I witnessed a lot of stuff. , I witnessed the way that he interacted with women. Not, I didn't ever saw any sort of sexual behaviour, but I saw the pre sexual behaviour and, , with young girls and, .

He was a married man, so I always thought, that's just gross. I don't respect that. My wife and I were like, you know what? We had the opportunity after running that studio for three and a half years to buy it. And we, it was a really, you know, the, the thing with b crumb [00:42:00] yoga is it, it was financially lucrative.

It was a, it was a franchise at that point too. He, he was trying to franchise it. He hadn't, that all started to fall apart. Um, oh, right. He never actually pulled that off because what happened, he had like 500 B crumb yoga studios all around the world had opened up. They all had opened up with people with their own sort of verve to do it.

And it was kind of more of an affiliation. And then when he got a little more greedy and realised, wow, I should have franchise this a long time ago. I'm gonna do it now. And he wanted to take a percentage of the profits of all the studio owners that all the studio owners rose up and were like, no way man.

We can't, you know, we're not gonna give you 30% or whatever the, the breakdown was of all of our profits annually. And it, it never actually worked. And that's when the whole thing started to crumble. And so, at the time that that was starting to come into play with the franchising, uh, my wife and I were kind of like, whoa, no way dude.

No, no. That's where we draw the line. And I started to, I started thinking, you know what, he's gonna [00:43:00] go down. He's gonna get in trouble and I'm gonna have his name on my sign out on the front, and that's gonna be look really, really bad because now I'm a co-conspirator, you know, in, in this sort of behaviour, even though I'm not partaking in the behavior myself.

So, that's when we left there and decided to move back here to Florida and we opened up our studio here. We have our 20 year anniversary coming up. We've been in this amazing congratulations, and we just went independent. Thank you so much. And we opened up Native Yoga Center here in Juno Beach in the hometown that I grew up in.

And I wanted to just be independent. I wanted to be independent of these crazy people. I wanted, I wanted, yeah, yeah. In a way, you know, I, I love yoga. I believe in yoga. I believe in the power that yoga has for healing and to create a safe space for people to rehabilitate, to enjoy all the benefits of yoga.

But one of my big goals is to kind of strip it of this ridiculous behaviour that I witnessed. So that's where. I'm [00:44:00] grateful I went through it because had I not gone through it, I wouldn't be clear about what my mission is now in life currently. That's a good attitude to have. Well, thank you. Many people would see it differently in a negative way.

It's good. You can see the positive out of, it, probably 'cause of your yoga practice. So what brought you to another strong ha yoga practice of Tonga? A very physical vinyasa. I've only practiced the primary series and you know, it's, it's another set sequence. It's amazing how powerful a set sequence can be.

People think they get bored, but can be very meditative, I think, to have a set sequence. But what brought you to Ashtanga? Oh, thank you Liz for asking. So [00:45:00] when we were in San Diego and I was witnessing and watching what was going on, uh, in the Bikram yoga world, I started to think there has to be more to this.

Than just this. Because one of the things Bikram would say to us in large groups, he'd say, my yoga is the only yoga that has value. Yeah. All other methods of yoga are complete crap. Excuse my French. I don't think I went to, I could have gone worse there. No, no, no. That's cool. That's cool. Not worthy. Yeah. All of their styles of yoga are unworthy.

They're all a hoax. Only my yoga is the only yoga. Now, what else does that sound like to you? That's a classic religious statement. My religion. Our religion, our cult, our group is the only one. Everybody else is gonna burn in hell and you [00:46:00] gotta be a part of our group or else you're going to hell. And so, as I was listening to, he literally said that.

Oh yeah. Oh, oh, really? He literally said that? Not, not. Oh yeah. Not the religious part, but he literally said out loud to our whole entire teacher training group, our this yoga is the only yoga that's real. Everything else is complete crap. Not legit. Not real. It doesn't work. My yoga is the only yoga that actually works.

Everything else not rail. So, I thought, well, I call, I wanna call shenanigans on that. So, I started looking around and I found, uh, I heard, heard about Ang Yoga. Now mind you, at this point there, the internet was still dial up phase. So we, we definitely don't have YouTube yet. It is a pain in the butt to use the internet.

It was so slow and boring. I remember those days. Yeah, yeah. Yep. Right. And So, I had gotten a VHS of David Swenson. I went in the [00:47:00] yoga journal magazine. I mailed my money in, they mailed me my VHS tape, it comes in the mail, and I put it in. And I watched David Swenson, who I absolutely love. We've hosted him here at our studio.

He's amazing. And I watched him do the opening routine that he does where he flows through a bit of a vinyasa flow, but Ashtanga based of like third and fourth series poses. And I was just trans, I was enamoured right away and I thought, wow, I gotta figure out how to do that because be grom is a very static sort of practice.

Yes. It's like you stand, you go into the pose, you come back to standing or you lay down. It's not a flow. It's not a flow. It's very do the pose, lay down. And when you watch, when I watched the Strong Guy, I thought, wow, now that's some yoga practice. So, we found out that Pattabhi Jois taught in Miso, India.

And I said to Tamara, I said. The founder, Uhhuh, the founder of Asthanga Yoga and going back to his gurus, Krishnamacharya [00:48:00] There's a lineage story there. But, uh, so I said to Tamara, we should go to India and go practice with this guy Pattabhi Jois. And, uh, we had never really taken an Estonia yoga class, but we figured what in was.

It'll be a fun adventure. So, we went to this, this could be a very long story, but I'm gonna make it faster. We went to, it was a different ex, very different experience, no doubt. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I mean, India is incredible. I really love India. And India is intense. India is culturally dynamic. It has a much longer history than obviously United States does.

So, when you feel that. Ancient cultural thread, even though it's blended in with, uh, a lack of amenities and a lot of challenging situations in relation to. All sorts of things, but India is so incredible. So I was enamoured with India and I really loved it. And going and practicing Ang yoga with Pattabhi Joyce [00:49:00] was a really incredible experience.

The yoga, in my opinion, was even harder than what I experienced in Bikram yoga. The level of intensity of practice that we went through there was so intense. Um, now again, I am, I was wanting to, I wanted to get the, I wanted the most intense thing I could possibly find. I, this goes back to, if I try to analyse it. Actually, let me stay on track here and just finish my first story.

So, yeah, we went and studied with him. I think your question was like, you know, why would you, oh, yeah. What was he like to train with? You know, he's, he's well renowned. He's passed away a, a while ago. Yeah. But he's very well known. He was well known, um, at the time. Ah, well there, so the stories that we had heard prior to arrival in Mysore had literally [00:50:00] scared us so much that by the time we got to Mysore, we decided we were not gonna sign up and study with 'em, because stories that we heard along the way were, well, the practice is so intense, it's painful.

Like you're, you're gonna experience an intense amount of pain, and so you gotta be ready for it. The other thing that we heard was that some of the adjustments or assists that were given. Had rendered people hospitalized. Um, so now some of the stories become fish stories. A hundred percent. I've studied and practiced with a lot of people in the Ang world that have said, I practice with Pattabhi Jois, and he never hurt me.

I never was injured by any of his assists. And I have to say that in my experience, practice with him, that was the same situation. I never, the, the question lies not so much [00:51:00] in, so, okay. So yeah, no, through the physicality of the actual hands-on touch. I never had any sort of major break, but in the process of practicing Tonga yoga and having assist from teachers within the lineage, yes, I have had major snaps and pops and things that would make it where I couldn't walk for a couple weeks, that type of thing.

And there's this interesting culture within Ashtanga yoga of, of that if your body pops or snaps or renders you useless for a little while, that's just an opening that you need to go through to advance to the next stage of development. And that is a very bizarre concept. I mean and, uh, I fell for it.

I don't know what that is in, in our DNA or humanity that. That is attracted to the [00:52:00] intensity of that sacrificial fire that feels like you're somehow burning through karma by suffering. And this exists in a lot of different religious traditions. If we look back at some of the crazy cults in Christianity, there's people that strap things down on their legs where there's nails going into their skin as a penance, a form of penance, thinking that because Christ suffered on the cross that I need to suffer as much pain as he did to prove my love for the suffering that he did for me.

It's a really bizarre concept. It, it's the basis of a lot of physical abuse that you or I or a lot of us have experienced. It's this idea that through pain and suffering, you become pure. It is a really twisted logic that I don't agree with, I, I in now, and I, but I've been wrapped up in that [00:53:00] culture in different ways and different places throughout my, my life.

So I feel like now I'm in this rehabilitation mode of appreciating what can come there, there is some good that can come out of it. I mean, I'm always looking for the good. I'm always trying to figure out, there's gotta be a reason for this stuff. Like, and, but I'm, I'm trying to come at it from a very balanced place now, whereas, you know, I have been involved in it where I believed whole.

I believed wholeheartedly in it. And then the, the Pattabhi JoIS was very, and from my experience, he was a sweet old man. But then come to find out, there's been a lot of sexual misconduct allegations that had been made from students, uh, in the last 10 or so years after he died. And this is a, , like Yogi Bhajan, Kundalini yoga.

Yeah. Which was Oh wow. A shock. Yeah. And yeah, we can go down the line of, falling like good [00:54:00] common, oh my gosh, it's unbelievably common. It's almost so common. That one almost needs to, this is where the sceptical mind needs to be in place. When you enter into the world of any spiritual cultures, um, you have to have the sceptic mind and you have to be very, um, I would recommend, you know how when you, I don't know if you've heard this, but, if you're involved in deep water diving, whether it be scuba or free diving, the the rule of thumb is you never do it without a, a partner.

You never take a big deck of it. Yeah, I've heard of that. Dive down 80 feet. 'cause if you black out down there, you need someone to pull you back up to the surface. I would highly recommend anybody wanting to investigate and going deeply into the traditions of spirituality, no matter what culture or groups you're going into, whether it's the new, new age, the neo new age stuff that's going on, [00:55:00]or if it's like the old school traditions.

Keep a lifeline to someone who is not involved in any of that in the real world. It doesn't mean like, you know, you know what I mean? Someone that you check in with who is in the secular world to just say, Hey, I went to this training this weekend and this is what we talked about. And that person can say, Hmm, that sounds really healthy.

That's cool. I'm really glad for you that you had a good time, or, that's a little bizarre. Are you sure that's a good idea? Like what, yeah, what's the logic behind that? Things have come out of that with Vipasana retreats, people going there and not being ratty, but uh, with all of this history with Asana, it's just weird with Ang as having that balance of that steadfast and that comfort.

Otherwise, it's not Asana. Well, that's a great, that's a great point, Liz, because I remember while I was [00:56:00] practicing Ashton Yoga. I know there's a big misnomer there in relation to Ashtanga Yoga is typically referred to by the yoga sutures of Patanjali, the eight limb path.

And a lot of people would ask, why is the yoga of Vinyasa yoga of the Ashtanga lineage called Tonga when there's a lot of debate here, but the angia yoga of the Patanjali order is more of a monastic and renut path, whereas the ang yoga of that Pattabhi Jois taught was a, uh, more of a gr hasa or a, a worldly path.

So there's always this debate of like, why was the Ashtanga yoga called Ashtanga yoga? And, um, yeah, it's confusing because they, they have confusing, because I would read the yoga sutures and say, Asana yoga posture should be stable and comfortable. And a lot of times I'd find myself, you know, wrapped up in a pose where I had my feet by my ears and I'm like hanging on for dear life and you know, in a lot of pain while I'm doing it, but still doing it.[00:57:00]

Going, am I comfortable right now? That's a great question. And I know the, no, I'm not. And then the idea is, well, how can you be, try to figure out a way to be comfortable in this extreme position. And as you start analysing it more, it looks a little bit like we're consciously creating this form of pain to learn how to override our reaction to the pain with the then hope that then when we go back out into the real world or into day-to-day living, we won't react.

Other difficult situations, we won't react. But that begs a really interesting question. If I'm still putting myself into pain to be able to learn how to deal with pain, is that really the solution to pain? Because it might create more pain and it's this funny pain loop. So yeah, it's a fascinating thing to investigate and that's, that's why, you know, I'm very enamoured and intrigued by it all, and I stay within the yoga [00:58:00] world, but I, I find myself every day.

I mean, I'm engaging in yoga practice every day, but I keep coming back to why am I doing this? What is the purpose of my practice? I really try to get really clear on my intention, what is in, what is my intention right now as I embark on this particular practice session. And I personally now am at a phase where I've experienced enough pain that I would like to try to find a way to enjoy life with as little pain as possible.

, So that is a whole new side of the coin for me personally. Now, most probably listening are kind of like, wow, he sounds crazy, because like, I don't, , why would he go through all that? , And if I analyse it more, Liz, I feel like when I go a little deeper, because I, and you know, without going into the details of my childhood, but because I suffered, , trauma as a child, I feel like [00:59:00] then there's a process of healing through the trauma.

And sometimes that process isn't pretty, but we get to a point where we actually start to feel really good in our skin. And that's an amazing experience to be able to feel good. I've just had to go through a lot of crazy interesting stuff to finally get to a point now where I'm like, I can honestly say I, I feel happy and content in my own skin.

It just was a really difficult journey. That's why I, I honour and acknowledge everybody who is going through this themselves, and I honour you for going through it yourself. And I applaud you for being brave enough to continue on and to ask questions and to be curious because it's, it's really, uh, you know, there, there's no way our healing journey can be forced.

There's no way it can really be sped up. We have to go through all these really difficult life lessons to, to truly grow into assimilate. [01:00:00] So, yeah. Yeah, that's really true. Yeah. So quickly, 'cause I, I'm conscious of your time and I don't wanna steal your time. I, I can keep going. I know We gotta spend your time too.

I'll have to have you, I'll have to have you on the show again if you ever Thank you, Liz. Thank you. Thank you. But I'm assuming, given now we are more aware of trauma, your teaching has changed since you started. It has quite a bit, yeah. Yeah. So now probably, I, so I still a Mysore Ashtanga room, but I do not teach it the exactly the way it was taught to me.

I don't believe. So, real quickly or briefly,  the way Ashtanga was policed. Was through what's called [01:01:00] gatekeeping and you weren't allowed, or you aren't allowed to go to the next pose within the sequence until you achieve a level of depth in the particular pose that you're working and there's logical, there's a logical underpinning for this.

It's just basically you need to lay down a foundation before you build onto the next step, so it makes logical sense. However, if it's not administered from a place of compassion, it turns into a very non-compassionate environment where Ahimsa is not. Maintained violence is not, non-violence is not maintained.

So, the way I teach it now is I allow students to modify it like crazy. I have people who come in and they do whatever sequence of movement. If they wanna roll around on the floor and practice happy baby the whole time, they can come in and happy baby and child's pose and do whatever they want as long as they're not hurting anybody else.

Distracting and [01:02:00] distracting and just being, you know, I, there's a certain level of continuity that I'll attempt to maintain, but, I like working with people that have injury. I like people that have experience. I like working with people that have gone through trauma, whether they're aware of it or not.

I like working with the most difficult situations that most people would say. I don't think I could deal with that. I really enjoy all that. So, I treat the, I treat it that way. Now, I also though, have transitioned into teaching what I just call gentle yoga. And I flipped the coin the other way where I try to make the yoga class as easy as possible, where so many folks think they can't do yoga because they see those extreme pictures of a strong and people rocking their legs behind their head and hands standing with their legs behind their head and all these crazy things.

And I try to make it as easy as possible as non. Torture, [01:03:00] pain inducing type of yoga is possible, and I found those are my busiest classes now and, and I find it's the most enjoyable thing. And I have, , spondylolisthesis in my low back. I have a rupture between my L5, S1. I have to be very careful now I can't back bend or do a lot of the things I used to do, the level of depth that I used to, but I can still do things.

I just have to do it in a way where I, I pretend that I have a spinal fusion. I try to not bend. I'm actually trying to stiffen my body now more I'm, I'm actually trying to do stiff yoga, you know? And which I know a lot of people are like, what? Like, I thought it was all about flexibility. Well, not, yeah, there's too much emphasis on flexibility.

I know, I know. That's what I mean. It's like, what, how did that, how did that, uh, meme come around of like yoga and flexibility? And it makes sense. You see the photos of people doing these crazy things. So, um, I, yeah. In answer to your question, my practice has evolved [01:04:00] tremendously in the way that I work with people, has evolved tremendously.

I put a lot of emphasis on working and training and studying in the world of the medical community in relation to learning about muscle skeleton and human anatomy, and great teams with medical professionals. So that I'm aware of,  that's kind of like when I was talking about having a lifeline to the secular.

I believe as a yogi, a yoga yo, a yoga practitioner, that it's important to stay connected to those outside of the yoga world that are working in the medical profession. So that, you know, if they're like, no, like, you know, in the medical world, I, they're like this whole idea  of cleansing.

Detoxification. They're like, that is the craziest idea ever. Detoxification is like this new age idea, right? And you're like, as a yogi, you're like, how could you say that? Like, I get a great detox every time, but it's good to have these opposing viewpoints of health and wellness so that we [01:05:00] don't go too far one way or the other.

I really believe in this sort of , middle road, middle path. I believe that within politics, I believe that within yoga, I believe that within all these different ways, like constantly searching a way to find the center line of all of these really wide angled views that we can go far into the extreme.

So, I think that's probably where the, my, the core of my teaching and prac my personal practice, I believe teaching really is just our, what our personal practice is. You know, we're just trying to share what we do personally, and then maybe that comes across as teaching, but , my personal practice is what defines what I share with others.

And so, that's kind of how it's informed and grown in my own personal experience of leading others into the world of yoga. It's good you're open-minded because I think it's really easy for us. When we've been teaching for a while, or for people [01:06:00] that become world renowned, to lose the beginner's mind.

And modern science has proven things that we are teaching like Ujjayi. The way we most of us teach it and encourage a loud sound is not correct. Uh, Patrick McKeown has, you know, but, Buteyko, I probably haven't pronounced that correct. Uh, has has shown that. So, it's good to have an open mind. Yeah, of course.

Right? Don't you think? Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And to know that no one knows it all, and. Yes. Have space to grow. Yeah. I think it's really important. Any quick tips for yoga teachers to cater to their students'? Mental health doesn't have to be trauma. Yeah. Um, yeah, I'd say I, I believe in energy.

I believe [01:07:00] in, , the mood that I'm caring that you can feel it. Yeah, like I believe, like Liz, you can feel my mood even, even through you and I are looking at each other through a device and you're on the other side of the world. Yeah. And I'm on the side of the world, but I still, even though you can't, you're not in the room with me right now.

I believe that you have a, you can feel my mood and my energy. So as a yoga teacher, I feel that it's really important that I, I meditate every morning to try to relax and get into a, just a relatively calm state and just relaxed and feel good about life. And then when I come in, if I have students that are struggling, words can only really do so much.

I believe [01:08:00] more the vibration of the words. Yeah, has a more powerful effect than the meaning sometimes. So being able to personally feel relaxed and then talk in a way where I just try to relax that that's going to probably be felt by somebody that's having a bad day. And I can't fix everyone having a bad day.

Like if, if you're having a bad day and you come in and you're having a day where mentally mental health wise, you're saying, I'm not feeling so mentally healthy today, I'm feeling really scattered. I don't feel good in my body. I'm having a hard time concentrating whatever the symptoms are, that just being present.

I believe really as a yoga teacher, our main job, this is what I keep thinking or realizing lately, is just to bear witness. I'm just bearing witness for the people [01:09:00] that are coming in and just being present so that they can feel that someone is watching or seeing what they're going through in the yoga can hold space.

Hold the space. Create that sacred container. Yeah, exactly. Be a set of eyes or a heart or a mind that is just witnessing. And so, the more I can just settle into witness consciousness where I'm just a witness and I'm just watching, I'm watching myself, I'm watching my own thoughts. I'm watching my own breathing, I'm gonna watch yours.

And then if I can possibly give you a little bit of insight. 'cause you might be like. Oja breathing so loud. We were like, and I can just feel your energy, like you're just on fire. And I'm like, well, Liz needs to have a little cooling energy today. Like, I can tell she's like, oh, Leo pottery, she's lit up and it's probably could amount to something else, so let's try to cool her down.

So, just being present and trying to cool down my [01:10:00] own body. And , do we pull it off every time? No, but that's where I think, , if as a teacher, if I'm all lit up and my mind is crazy and I'm just like, in this really horrible space and, and I'm just gonna go in and teach class anyway and I'm just gonna do it anyway and I'm, I'm, I hope space, it's hard.

You know? And they feel it. And what's kind of cool students when they feel I'm really dysregulated Mm, they'll mirror that back to me. It'll become apparent that I'm dysregulated and they're the teacher. And then I start realizing that Who's the teacher here? We're all teaching each other. We're a community of people that are on standing on the same level ground.

So that for me has been really important transition to now when I need to take leadership role. Yes, I'm willing and able, that's what I signed up for. I can do it, but as much as I can let go of my leadership role and put the leadership role in your hands. And we're in [01:11:00] a, in a very commun, like a very cordial, it works and it's, there's no power, struggle or dynamic going on.

Then I'm like, whoa, this is amazing. Wow. This yoga stuff, being in the room with people. This is so cool. Wow. I can feel this. This is incredible. Does it always feel that way? No. Is it sometimes really chaotic and difficult? Yes. Oh yeah. But setting my intent that I'm gonna play leadership role, but then I'm gonna try to let go of that and let everyone else take over until it's needed for me to regain it and I'll pull it back in.

And we're just kind of pulsing back and forth between those dynamics. That's the tip I would give, you know, be aware. Yeah. I think that's a great tip. Thank you. Yeah. Center yourself, walk your talk. Yeah. Have , a regular practice yourself. Yeah. And just to finish off, Todd, what's the best way for people to connect with you?

I, I think you have some sort of online course. Thanks for asking. Yeah. So maybe the easiest way, [01:12:00] my website is native yoga center.com and all the links are there and I have a fairly active YouTube channel and, so they can connect with us on YouTube native all in your show notes, Uhhuh in the show notes.

And I do have a. Learn eight Limb yoga in eight days. So it's like a beginner intro level to Ang Yoga where I try to teach it in the way that I was talking about with you, just here's how you do it and try to do it the best you can, and here's a little small little piece and don't make it too big.

Make it easy to start. So yeah, that's the easiest way I would say. And I'm really grateful, Liz, , I love doing podcasting. I've been working with it likewise with Medium for, for the last five years, and. When you reached out to me, I was really excited when I was able to have you as a guest on my show, and that was an honour.

Thank you. Thank you so much for, for joining us on our show and I got some great feedback from our listeners and, I can feel your sincerity in your curiosity and I share that with you. And [01:13:00] so I'm just so excited when I meet somebody else like you, who is just excited to share and wanting to talk about the challenges that, that we, you and I have both been through and, and hope we know that there's other people out there that are, that are challenged as well, that through this medium, I know my goal and I get the genuine feeling from that.

It's your goal too, that we wanna help Yeah. Share the power of yoga and try to help others. Definitely. I also wanna congratulate you on running a studio for 19 years. Oh, thank. Most studios do not survive that long, especially through a pandemic, and I take my hat off to you. Running a studio may seem easy, but

I’m sure it's not. There's a lot of work that goes behind the scenes, yeah. Congratulations to you and Tam. Thank you, Liz. Thank you for acknowledging that. Oh, 19 [01:14:00] years. It's amazing. Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. It means a lot. It is challenging and it's rewarding and it's all that, but you're right, the pandemic.

Whoa. That was wild. Oh, but we make, yeah. We made it. Yeah, you did. That's a feat in itself. And so sad. So many studios closed here in Australia too, but Yeah. Yeah. Well, we're keeping it alive. We're all keeping it alive, and it's, and yoga's not going anywhere, that's for sure. I mean, it's, it's gonna stand the test of time.

It'll stand through the ai, you know, transformation that's occurring, you know, and, and, um, and human connection. We're, I'm grateful for technology, but human connection is where it's at. So, it's gonna continue. There's no doubt about that. Yeah, that's true. I agree. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you, Liz. I, I'm really grateful for your time because time is valuable and, and for [01:15:00] just sharing part of your journey. It's just been a fascinating one. Thank you so much, Liz.

Thank you for joining me podcast. I hope today's episode has left you feeling inspired and informed and empowered to take meaningful steps towards your wellbeing. If there's a topic you'd like me to cover, or if you'd like to share your story, I'd love to hear from you. Just fill in the form on the podcast page of my website. Your voice is an important part of this journey. I want this podcast to reflect the conversations that matter most to my listeners. If today's episode resonated with you, please share it with someone who might benefit from these conversations. Don't forget to subscribe. It helps grow this incredible community of resilience and support. Until next time. Take care of yourself and never forget the power, the possibilities of a regular yoga [01:16:00] practice. See you soon.

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Liz Albanis

Host
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Todd McLaughlin

Guest