Trauma Recovery With Intelligent Movement Anna Rahe | Ep 33

Liz Albanis continues her conversation with Anna Rahe. Exploring fascia, the body-wide tissue network that changes how we understand trauma. Chronic stress, pain, and even the way we cue “good form” in movement practices. Why trauma is not only something we carry in the mind, but something that can be reflected in tissue tone, breath patterns, and protective shapes driven by stress hormones.   

If you’ve ever left a yoga, pilates or fitness class feeling more tense than when you walked in. This conversation puts words and physiology to that experience

• Trauma as physiology and tissue patterning, not just mindset 
• Why stress chemicals drive protective contraction through breath, ribs, and spine 
• Cueing in Pilates and Yoga that can mimic a stress state 
• Why muscle-dominant training may keep the nervous system on high alert.
• Fascia-first movement as a whole-body approach to pain, migraines, and regulation 
• Fascia as “tubes not sticks” as a simple body map for safer practice 
• Why to avoid diagnosing where trauma is “stored” 
• Quiet unwinding versus chasing catharsis and performance release 
• The limits of psoas obsession and the role of the thoracolumbar fascia and adrenal belt 
• Why myof-ascia only thinking can repeat old medical silos 
• why changes in breathing, organs, and head pain can be connected through the same system.  
• Tips for teachers: internal movement under the pose, interoception, traction, and length-based strength 
• Honesty about the current hype around somatic release
• why big cathartic experiences aren’t automatically healing and how quiet unwinding can be more stabilising
• Why teachers need to stay inside scope when working with trauma-informed yoga.
• Practical ways to practise yoga that keeps the body open, supple, and steady. 
  
  

About Anna: is a leading innovator in the health and wellness industry, with over 25 years of pioneering work in fascia science. As the founder and CEO of GST Body, she has developed a proprietary system that helps people restore vitality, prevent injury, and unlock physical resilience through fascia-focused movement and care. Her method has gained recognition among top athletes, physicians, and wellness experts, and she has been a featured speaker at the 2019 Goop League as well as numerous masterclasses, webinars, and events. Anna is a member of the Fascia Research Society and is building a new category of body care rooted in science, performance, and self-healing.

Special Offer

Anna would love to share the 7-Day Body Revival, a free introductory experience designed to help people begin getting to know their own body in a deeper way. It is not a challenge, but rather a gentle introduction to GST and an invitation into more awareness, connection, and understanding of how their body responds.

Connect With Anna: https://www.annarahe.com/
https://gstbody.com/  https://www.instagram.com/gstbody/

https://www.youtube.com/@TheGSTBody

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Transcript

Why Movement Beats Everything

SPEAKER_02 0:00

They say it does nothing compared to what movement does for the body. Period. Nothing registers like movement. And so fascia just widens the lens and it lets more light into what we can see and how things are related.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

Welcome back to part two of this fascinating, or should I say, fascinating, conversation with Anna Ray. Today we're shifting into something that I think will completely change the way you understand your body. We explore how trauma is not just something we carry in the mind, but something that is physically stored in the body. And why the way we move every single day can either support our journey or keep us stuck in the same patterns or even make us feel worse. Because this is the piece that so many people are missing. We're talking about faster, how trauma can actually be stored in the body. And what can bring it out. And how movement can be one of the most powerful tools we have for bringing that to the surface. But it also can be one of the most destructive tools.

Content Warning And Safety Notes

SPEAKER_01 1:16

Hi, I'm Liz Albanis, and welcome to season two of Yoga for Trauma: The Inner Fire of Yoga, where we explore how yoga can help release trauma, calm the mind, and reconnect you with your body. Before you start listening, this episode includes a discussion on trauma and may touch on experiences that could be distressing for some listeners, including, but not limited to survivors of sexual abuse, natural disasters, or other distressing events. If you find yourself feeling triggered during this episode, please treat yourself with care and compassion for where you are in this moment. If you're struggling, please see a licensed healthcare professional or if in Australia to call Lifeline on 133114.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

The views and opinions expressed by guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the host Liz Albanis. The content shared in these conversations is intended for informational and educational purposes only, and it's not suitable for listeners under the age of 18. Please use discretion and consult a qualified professional before making changes to your health or wellness routines.

Why Part Two Matters

SPEAKER_01 2:32

If you haven't listened to the first part, I really encourage you to go back to that episode and listen to that first. This will make more sense then if you do that. Here's a little snippet of the first part of the conversation, though.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

If you can use your own pain and your own suffering to create change, then it becomes a value, not a liability. I also learned that my pain became the kind of breadcrumbs that I would follow towards goodness. Movement is the bare element that actually metabolizes all of our pain. And if you're, you know, struggling with soul sickness, there is movement, spiritual movement that you can do to create healing. That's the whole point. And so movement then becomes something that's way more profound than just fitness or physical therapy, or it becomes this really profound way of dealing with life's loads, the struggle of life, and how we're going to engage it, and whether it becomes a trauma or whether it becomes our transformation.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

In part one, I asked a question that really opened the door into what we're getting into today. Here is what I asked. And you've studied yoga and Pilates and other things, gyratonic things.

SPEAKER_03 4:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

But what fascinates me as well is that a lot of the things you were taught in your yoga and Pilates training, because I I've trained in Pilates too, yeah, contradicted what you found with your fascia research. And 100%. Yeah. And I I know one of the things from my research um into some other conversations you've had was the spine. This we don't think of we don't think of the spine and the lungs enough, but what what you were taught in Pilates was closing the rib cage in. I'm dance teaches it, Pilates teaches it.

SPEAKER_02 4:39

It's funny that you preceded your own share preceded one of the most dysfunctional practices that we have for fascia. Yep. It's the spasm of the diaphragm, yeah, and the rib cage and the sternum. Okay. You have to understand a couple

Stress Chemistry Shapes Posture

SPEAKER_02 4:56

things. Number one, how physiology works, which is that the adrenal glands are placed right at the bra line. It's the equal distance between the hands and the feet on the human body. The adrenal glands sit right next to the kidneys, and they are placed at that equal distance so that when stress and trauma happen, the adrenal glands immediately secrete. And that chemical process I was telling you about moves evenly into both hemispheres of the body. In the olden days, that would secrete and the legs would start pumping, and the muscles of the arms would start moving, and you would try to run, right? That lion, that danger. It was a physical reality to get away from the danger. That's right, get away from the danger. But when it's a psychological danger, the same physiological thing happens.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

Right?

SPEAKER_02 5:49

The same chemical process is happening. And so what's really interesting is that the physiology creates the physical, maybe think about it this way the chemistry set of the adrenaline and the transmitters and stuff, secreting contracts the tissue in the same pattern that we're working our muscles out in, that our biomechanics are trying to do, right? So if you need to run, your diaphragm shuts down, no blood flow really goes, your lungs pick up and contract, and you're trying to pump the blood, and your spine shorts into a primal contraction, like a fetal position for protection. Yes. Right? Yep. So if you take that physiology and you apply it to how we mechanically load in our biomechanics, you are creating the same load pattern that stress chemicals are putting into your tissues. Yeah, that makes sense. Say that again. A crunch when you push your ribs down or you're trying to use it. Ribs to hips was the cue I was taught. Yeah. Right? Ribs to hips. That is putting you into a physiological stress state. That is fascinating. Your muscles start to tighten. The other problem is that all of our all of our mechanical disciplines, whether you're training for sport or you're doing yoga, overemphasize muscular activity. The muscles are your getaway car. They are what pump so much effort and stress into you so that you can get away. The sympathetic nervous system goes. They are sympathetic nervous system. The fascia is endorphin-based. Yeah. It's the opposite. And so we should be living 90% of our time moving with fascial mechanics rather than muscle mechanics. And yet all of our all of the ways, when I say biomechanics, you're learning yoga by poses, but you're really initiating biomechanical movements by a shape, by a pose. And that is not the way to learn yoga. That's not the way to learn Pilates. You have to learn how the body move, and then you apply that science of movement to the positions of yoga. It's the reverse, right? But that's because yoga was never meant to be a fitness routine. No, it never. And it shouldn't be. It still shouldn't be. It shouldn't be. It was supposed to be a spiritual discipline. To most of us. I guess I was also jaded by just and every discipline's different. Yoga is very flavored. I'm making generalized statements because of that. But but it doesn't matter. Even when I went into more of the spiritualized, like, you know, I studied with my friends at Siri and she did kundalini. And it's even it's not even a lot of um like biomechanics, it's like just tons of like phonetic repetition, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:58

And it's for a different point, but ironically, they're still stimulating this kind of very sympathetic, activating, very sympathetic, especially with the belly pumping and that's right. And very tantric,

Fascia Versus Muscle-Based Training

SPEAKER_01 9:10

yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:10

The ideal is that I think that fascia broadens our perspective of if we focus on fascia first, everything gets healthier, every every discipline we take becomes more aligned to what is truly vital for our bodies, what makes us vital. So if I focus on fascia for organ motility, my guide digestive system will behave better. My microbiome will be improved. Yeah. If I focus on fascia for my like um workouts rather than the muscles, my joint health will be right enhanced.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

And the same thing is for mental problems, nervous systems in your regulation.

SPEAKER_02 9:59

If you focus on fascia first to treat brain injury, not just mental health, but brain injury, which is a different thing, but they end up colliding because you can't have uh mental health on a brain injured that's injured, right? Yeah, so um you fascia focus first, and it's unbelievable. I just had a girl from Queensland and she flew in to see me, and she has had a decade of chronic migraines to the point where it was so extreme that she thought about ending her life. Oh my she's gone to every major place and she does her Botox and she does her, and she was just starting to lose hope. And it was so interesting that after I think we did 10 sessions in in in a two to three week because we couldn't do much to flare it up. Like it was this really interesting. Anyway, the approach was very unique for her conditions, but it was all fascia focused, and it was shocking. She still has not had electrical storms like she has had since going back. And what's so interesting is all the regular triggers, like she didn't change the triggers. Life triggers us. Yes, but how fascia responds in the brain and interfaces with the nervous system is really profound, and so that's why I I just love fashion that it changes the entire worldview uh for a human from trauma to just physical health, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:30

Like totally physical health, absolutely, but I think some so it was mainly with the yoga and Pilates was it was the fact we were shutting down that area, yes, but we can still practice um yoga in a way that doesn't like a somatic practice, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:47

Like a not only that, but all you have to do is is honor what is. So, one of the things, let me say this for the listener to make it really clear.

Tubes Not Sticks

SPEAKER_02 11:57

Your body is tubes, not sticks. Yes, I'm sorry to say that it's a tube, not stick. And when you start crunching or tourniqueting tubes that are supposed to flow with blood, with digestive juices, with lymph, with muscular energy that's moving through the fibers of fascia, by doing core mechanics the way we're taught, by trying to align things and keep things very rigid in our postures and in our movement, we're basically not honoring the fluid nature of our bodies. And so I would say that if someone loves the yoga, is there? I also like to use this for people, it's like if you learn how to play your body the way you would an instrument and you learn to play the instrument well, then go play Haydn, go play Chopin, go play, right? You can go play yoga while I go play Pilates because it's not the song you're playing, it's how you're treating the instrument. That's that's the best analogy. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 13:01

Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_02 13:02

And people just need to learn how to move their bodies correctly, and everyone would be like, Well, I'm a precision and I work with a trainer who's so precise, and I'm like, that's not what I'm talking about. You know, you have to learn the right mechanics.

SPEAKER_01 13:13

And I like to say that to practice a beginner's mind, because if you didn't have a beginner's mind, you wouldn't have started learning to think outside the square and question other things you were taught. And over the years, after nearly 14 years of teaching yoga, I've changed a lot from learning new things. And what you're teaching me now has made me start to think, hmm, now I need to go into this more, you know, and sh look at my own practice and how I help others, which I'd already started to feel with the changes in my diet, all of that with my adrenals, my diaphragm, the spasming I'd never felt in my diaphragm after the second fire, and the tremors I'd never had. I would shake up and down in cobra and just like this. And because I know the shaking is releasing, I just went for it because I know that's what animals do, they shake it off.

SPEAKER_02 14:10

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

That's right. They and that you know, they've done studies on tr people who survived natural disasters or terrorist attacks. I cannot find this study, but it was mentioned in a book I was reading called Yoga for Fear. And unfortunately, it's from my recollection, the author has now passed away, but there was a study on 9-11 victims, and the ones who were able to flee and run and get away had less chance of a PTSD diagnosis and suffered less after than the ones that were trapped. That was a health.

SPEAKER_02 14:52

Exactly. Movement movement metabolizes stress, whether it's physical or psychological. Movement is the key. And even like, you know, like longevity medicine is showing now that you can take any kind of biohack you want, any medicine, peptide, blah, blah, blah. And they say it does nothing compared to what movement does for the body. Period. Nothing registers like movement. So I think there's something to that, like why we go into it and help people from a yoga or you know, movement perspective is because I think there's

Beginner’s Mind In Teaching

SPEAKER_02 15:26

truth there. And I like something you just said, Liz, which is the beginner's mind should be almost like a state of being for people, where it's like you're always looking for like what can I do next? And and asking questions is an open, like opens the field. And you know, there's always something more. And then, and then that led you to the more that we open as people, the more that we can lead or we can show people, right? I love that, you know, people, I think oftentimes teachers think they need to have what they know and what they've learned. And I'm like, you're not teaching what you know or learn. It took me a long time. I've been doing this 28 years.

unknown 16:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:12

It took me a long time to realize that I am not trying to teach people the concept. I'm trying to share with them my experience. And that is predicated. The only way I can be potent is if I have done the work first. Because then I actually have something to share.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:33

Right. So, you know, that's why you want to stay open. That's why you want to have that beginner's mind, is because then you're always going, like, my journey is never complete, and therefore I have stuff to offer other people. Exactly. Yeah, I've, I mean, and that's what drew you into yoga. What

How Liz Finds Yoga

SPEAKER_02 16:51

what what was your like impetus to go to yoga? What drew you there?

SPEAKER_01 16:55

Yeah, I was like a many typical people. I was like, oh, it's the latest. It was hot yoga, it was Bikram. It was new to Canberra because Canberra being, although we're the capital city, we're a small city, and we're usually behind the big cities like Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane. Yeah. And uh Bickram was a new thing, and my friends were like, Oh, you've got to come in, you'll get more flexible, you'll detox, you'll lose weight. And being a typical sexual abuse victim, you know, I've had bad, a bad relationship with with food, and um, and I was smoking, and yeah, I went and it was the hardest thing I've ever done. And but I stopped smoking within three months. I'm like, there's more to this because yeah, trauma can cause addictions, ADHD, so smoking was my thing, drinking, binge drinking, and I finally had something else, and I and that, and that really kept me going. And because it's had such a profound effect on my life, it's I changed my career. I was a public servant and I worked for the federal government. And the funny thing is, I hear your GST name, grid flow somatic technology, and I think GST goods and services tax because I've got everybody that's even that's even the Canadians. I'm like, I know that the and I have every time like, no, it's not goods and services.

SPEAKER_02 18:21

That's right, that's right. You gotta look at it. I know. I'm not gonna be there in front of me.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

It's like grid flow somatic technology. But so um moving on, because I I know time is precious and you've been so generous with your time. No, it's happy to be here. I'm just trying to prioritize things because you're just such a you're such a fat, you're such a fascinating, fascinating guest.

SPEAKER_02 18:46

I'm sure you've heard that one before. I have also used that. I think I might be one of the titles in my in the chapter of my book.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

Oh yes, I can't wait to buy your book. Wow. I'm looking forward to that. Oh my gosh, I'm so excited. Yeah, good.

SPEAKER_02 19:00

It's coming, it's coming, it's closer than it's ever been, so that's great. I'm I'm in the attribute as a publisher, so it's great.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

Well, I'm on your email list, so I'm sure I'll be one of the first to find. Maybe you can help me get the word out because that's really absolutely we'll talk about it um soon if you if that's all right.

SPEAKER_02 19:17

Yeah, we could do a follow-up, that'd be great.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

Yeah, so you've helped people with trauma. And

When Trauma Shows Up In Tissue

SPEAKER_01 19:28

I know there's an interesting story about someone's foot because of being tied up.

SPEAKER_02 19:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

Yeah. So I I'm assuming because if someone's got PTSD, it can show up in different areas of the body depending on the situation. Yeah. So could you talk a bit about that?

SPEAKER_02 19:58

Yeah, let me think about what I would share about that. I mean, I think that comes kind of down to what I was just trying to say in the earlier part of our conversation about that fascia is deeply layered and deeply like um. I mean, fascia's the first tissue that starts in in utero, right? When the you know, three cells are starting to push and pull and move. And so we are created by this tubal pressurized thing. And so it's not like trauma gets we the the western mind especially, but uh less a little bit in the eastern mind, because they think encircled with mandala and stuff, but we in the western mind think angle and line and straight and solid, and and if you really understand how fascia's formed, kind of like like um it's like almost taffy, it pulls and then it folds in and it pulls and it folds in. That that this information comes in, like we described the whole thing, but it's layered into deep neurological patterns and it's wrapped around the nerves that remember. And so it's a very complicated thing. And so when you start thinking about body part and position, I even had a thought that I need to go back and rework some of my book because I I think we can do associative things like the feet mean this, and that's why. But when you look at a pattern of how someone stores their trauma, it's a multi-layered thing, it's not usually by simply saying part or parcel, meaning it happened to condense in this woman's feet. She was, you know, we do you want to tell the story? I don't know how your listeners can know that.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

No, no, it's there's a trigger warning, and people know they can turn it off at any time. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:47

So it just this this woman comes to me, she's in therapy, and she's got these dinky little fairy feet, and she's six or five, seven, or five eight. She's like tall. She's tall. Anyway, so she's She was doing trauma work. She was already dealing with the history of incest. And so I was just hoping to help her with her body because this her therapist had said, you know, I know that this woman does really great work. I think it would be complimentary. So she comes in and we're just kind of moving things. And I'm, you know, we talk about stuff, but she wasn't overt. Anyway, the whole story is that after about a couple weeks, she I just kind of was working on her legs and her feet. And I said, you know, why she's like, I know my feet are so small. And I'm like, yeah, they're kind of tiny. She was like, oh yeah, well, you know, I have memories of, you know, my my dad holding my feet down. And and I think that, you know, um, and so I just, I don't know. I we kind of think that, you know, my that could be related. And I was like, well, let's try it, let's talk about it. And so I started working on her feet. We put it as a point of of intention. And within the next, I don't know, I'd say like six weeks, her feet grew to normal six-size foot. It was still small for how tall she was, but it wasn't like that's amazing. We're talking like bound feet, right? So when you ask me to to kind of talk about it, it makes me feel like I don't. Number one, with fascia, you can't be diagnostic, right? Yeah, you did say that before. That's right. It's it's hard because it changes the whole way we have to look at even health and medicine, really. I also do medical advocacy where I talk with doctors about conditions because fascia is this medicine takes this like symptom and we start to divide the body into specialties and expertise, and we start like narrowing the aperture to diagnose a very specific, very, very close thing. But all of a sudden, we've lose the field of what could be happening elsewhere. And so, what fascia did for me was I'm like, oh, my breathing was a product of my heart, which was a product of my gastrointestinal, which was a right, and so fascia just widens the lens and it lets more light into what we can see and how things are related. So I ref, I think I would say that in the trauma sense of this story with this woman is that I didn't go in and just say, oh, your feet are small or small, therefore your trauma is in your feet. Yes. That's extremely Western ways of thinking. Yeah. And I think the more like honoring an intentional way to do it within the fascial framework is letting the body speak. And that speaking came out of the growth of her feet, the unbinding, which was done because we were letting other things speak, right? It was the last expression of freedom that came in, not the focus of let me try to open your feet to get somatic release.

Quiet Unwinding Over Big Releases

SPEAKER_02 24:54

And this is one of the problems I'm really not, I'm critical of new and more like um there's hype out there all over the place about somatic releases and look what we can do, and somatic, and they're looking, it's almost like the Pentecostal movement in Christianity where it's like, let me feel the spirit, and let me like it has to be so big, and I'm quaking, and then I'm crying, and then I'm quaking, and I'm I'm like, that is destabilizing to the nervous system. Yeah, 100%. But they like the feeling it's cathartic, right? They think that it's cathartic, and the real respectful way, yeah, and and and it's not always good. They're getting a release, but it doesn't follow the natural flow of what the fascia needs. For example, her feet started to unwind when we started working on the low posterior adrenal belt and the kidney relationship, right? And as she started to change her rib cage, it opens up and then her foot started talking later. But if we go in and we start to analyze and diagnose, like this is where trauma is stored, it's a it's almost like a reverse pathology where we start putting narrative in. And I remember a very clear moment in my own journey where I was in a healing table and I was having a somatic release, and the woman was a true healer, and she said, That's not it. And I kind of was shaken out of it. And she's like, That's not it. Whatever you're thinking, whatever you're relating to, it's not what is it. And I said, Oh, that's interesting. I was milking my own story. I'm like, this is the trauma of my, I know that this is the relationship I had with my, but then all of a sudden it was like, that's not it. True healing doesn't have cathartic, like, or like um such, it's quiet. What I want to say is it's quiet. Fascia unwinds quietly and profoundly. It is a stabilizing source, not a destabilizing. It is not, it is, it's mystical because fascia is so intelligent and so crazy to think about it, but it's kind of like another dimension, right? Fascia introduces you to a different dimension of work that is, I don't know, it's stabilizing, it's it's calming, it's not frenetic, it's not, it's not adrenal, right? So when we try to do trauma work that is too somatic, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

Yeah, we can have panic attacks or yoga teachers who are going outside their scope or even yoga therapists that have opened the doorways, the floodgates, yeah, too much. And not being able to hold it. And that's all that's all I would say. Yeah. But sorry?

SPEAKER_02 27:41

No, I was just concluding that I I was listening to you. I'm like, yeah. Yes. And that's I think all I would say about that is that I wish that there could be something like, oh, that means that my I spent years being like, oh yeah, that means that my low back is related to my blah blah blah. And this is means that my but-da comes from my bubba. And I was like, that's not really actually how how trauma is released or dealt with in fascia terms.

SPEAKER_01 28:07

Yeah, because I always heard about the psoas and the lower back.

The Psoas Myth And Adrenal Belt

SPEAKER_02 28:12

Oh, don't even get me started. The fucking psoas. Oh my gosh, and the pelvic floor, the psoas and the pelvic floor. And I'm like, yes, but it's an awful picture. Well, and look, the psoas is plays an important role in terms of its veneration with the diaphragm and the shared tissue with the adrenal flow field. What I will say, I can't address everything in the thing, I just want to always do too much. Yeah. But your adrenal glands, when they secrete, one of the points of do you know what the thoracolumbar fascia is? Yes. It's these deep layers of these dense fibers of fascia that run from the rib cage down into the base of the pelvis. And a lot of structuralists think that the primary source is to give structure to the soft tissues in the middle. But I expand that view. I think that there are structural alignment things that it's related to, but I think that its primary source is to act like a gravel field for all the toxic chemicals that come down from the adrenal glands as an absorption and a directive field to take those stress hormones and get them into the legs as fast as possible so they don't stay in the torso. And because those chemicals are toxic to tissue, all tissue, right? Like organ tissue. You cannot have too much adrenaline in your organs, else there's a problem. So, anyway, the whole point is that the psoas becomes a very minor, minor anatomy piece in the actual flow field of toxic stress chemicals through the tissues. And so it will shorten because it's related to the the fetal position, but it doesn't play a metabolic role the same way that the flow field does in the back. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 30:06

That makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 30:07

So that's why I believe, and I think all of the people who I've worked with over the years would tell you that the new SOAS is going to be when I get my day in the sun. The new SOAS will be the upper rib cage and the vital organs underneath the chest. Everything up in the upper hemisphere is way more physiologically responsible for body health than anything else, than psoas, than pelvic floor, anything.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

Correct. But I think all of that research on the psoas was it's was a while ago.

SPEAKER_02 30:52

And we, you know, it was big in the 90s first, but it was totally a big deal when I went through my Pilates training in '96, seven.

SPEAKER_01 31:00

Yeah, and there's more that's come out, which is great. Um, because releasing my PSOAS was a start for me with TR David Bacelli's TRE as well. That's true. But I knew I used to think it was just in the PSOAS, this trauma, right? And then especially after the fire, I was like, wow, I would release my temporalis all over my, you know, all over there, and the all these tremors. I'm like, whoa. And then I'd end up it helped me sleep.

SPEAKER_02 31:33

That's totally right.

SPEAKER_01 31:35

Yeah. So it was just fascinating what happened to my body and the spasming I felt in what those areas you've been talking about. So that's amazing. 100% that is fascial.

SPEAKER_02 31:48

100% fascial in my estimation. Um, that's what fascia's job is, is to disseminate, dilute, and get rid of the toxic chemicals and load in your system.

Why Myofascia Focus Falls Short

SPEAKER_01 32:02

And just one question before I ask you for some tips for listeners is do you think one of the mistakes people are making is only focusing on the myofascia? Because we've got all these layers. Do you think that's what a lot of us are doing? Yeah, just that's a hard fascia.

SPEAKER_02 32:21

Yeah. Everybody's into the myofascia, but that makes sense because the gym of the dogs. Yeah, well, and I think that fascia around the muscle, which is it's significant, but because of the relationship it has to movement, right? Um, it's a it's a big deal. But if you're only focusing on the myofascia, you're missing the whole field, right?

SPEAKER_03 32:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:43

And you and I think that the danger is that we are going to cons compartmentalize fascia the way that we have compartmentalized the body. Like it.

SPEAKER_01 32:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:55

The PSOAS, right? That's a compartmentalized view of the of the psoas. It's like what fascia gifts us, if we will let it, is it's expansion, expansion of concept, expansion of stretch, expansion of like how we're gonna deal with pain. And so if we start to let fascia try to fit our current framework, we're gonna do a lot of damage. I think we're not going. Well, I don't uh yes, you can do damage, but I would say it's not that dramatic. You will not receive the exponential benefits of work with fascia as a field, you have to work with fascia as a field.

SPEAKER_01 33:33

Because it's and the body as a whole, because of the yeah, holistic approach.

SPEAKER_02 33:38

Yeah, that's why I call it holistic body care because it is it is it's not there's not a thing that fascia doesn't touch. We can influence like actual autonomic functions by how we use somatic action in fascia. That's really profound. I will say that again for those of you who have any interest in deep science. Because of how fascia functions and where it's located, it is both controllable in a somatic sense, like a muscle. I can do something with it on purpose, on choice, and it has autonomic responses. So you can have endocrine secretion channel function by fascial innervation. That's really profound. And that will be missed if you only go into your myofascia, if you only silo it by body part, because truly, Liz, the way that you're saying that is that fascia wraps around and is involved in every other body system. So it is an endocrine tissue. It is a myotissue, it is a nerve tissue when it's involved in the nervous system. The way it wraps around, it works with myelin, right? It has influence on every other system. And so to just focus on the myofascia is like saying, I am just gonna deal with my my brain injury by dealing with my gut. And you're like, well, that's fine, but you're missing the nervous system, you're missing the right. So that's what I mean. And I love that you brought that up because it's a passion I have, and I think that we're in the beginning stages, so I don't want to be too critical, like the research that's come out. And it will, like, I've been doing this for so long that I'm like, I take for granted that I'm kind of 20 steps ahead. Even I went to the fascial research conference, and it was apparent to me that I'm like, we're I'm still talking about things that are still not talking about this research, right? It's like this really interesting thing because the people who are researching are those who are researchers, they're not the ones out doing it, right? They're studying.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

They're studying it but not doing it, doing it, right?

SPEAKER_02 35:52

So I think that that is it's an important thing that people understand that the most important thing is that people are starting to talk about fascia. And if people are excited about it from the myo fascia because it's easy, and people who are teachers of movement, yoga teachers, Pilates teachers, weight training, you know, weight training.

SPEAKER_01 36:09

Yeah, personal trainers therapists, that's right, you call it over.

SPEAKER_02 36:14

The reason that they want to talk about it is because they are drawn to the somatic side of things, and then they can help spread the message that you know, fascia is king. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:25

Fashion source, fascia is source. The more I find out about it, the more complex it becomes, and more that I'm like, the more fascinating it becomes, you know. And I know that I need to focus me personally on more not just the myofascists so much going deeper.

Fascia Flow Inside The Pose

SPEAKER_01 36:43

Um so before I ask you about your book, um if you were get to give someone who's practicing yoga and has people they do that they know there's some trauma in there. What should they be doing now? Obviously, what's what's some tips to help them out?

SPEAKER_02 37:10

I would say two things. One is very practical about how you want to shape your body. Try to think about all of your poses in three-dimensional shape form, where you're going to try to keep all your tubes open. And that means letting your ribs go, even though they teach you to put your ribs to hips. Try to really keep the channels of energy open to translate.

unknown 37:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 37:38

And then the second thing is more about trauma, which is the position itself is a shape and a container for your trauma. And what fascia does, and what GST specifically, I this is not talked about in any other discipline that I've heard anywhere. Yeah. Is that there is movement under the movement, meaning think about your body like a fishbowl. In yoga, we take the fishbowl and we make it into different shapes and we hold it and we try to move the water. But fascia allows us to move the seaweed and the fish and the currents and everything by choice. By choice. Yes. Which means when you're in downward dog, you're never holding a pose. You're not static. You feel inside, you need to be pulling your tissue in very specific directions with very specific outcomes. And that is there's magnetism in there. Like I it's I can't teach GST here, but the idea is that if you're in your own discipline and you're with your eyes closed and you're feeling your body from the inside out, ask your body inside this shape, what other kinds of movement beside the flow of my vanasi, or what is it called? The inside of those, the the flow of those poses, that's not flow. I love that everybody talks about yoga flow or dance flow or karate flow. That's not the flow.

SPEAKER_01 39:11

No, I'm talking about a different sort of flow.

SPEAKER_02 39:14

Yeah, I'm talking about the fascial flow. Yes, the way that you can control how fascia is animating and distributing the pain, the pain, the restriction, the energy, the chi inside of you. And that is done as purely as me contracting a muscle. I can direct my fascial release very specifically with precision. And I want to open that up to the yogi who's interested because that I think is where the real work of trauma release comes from. It's not the pose itself. It's not the sequence of poses that create a flow. It's when you are in the tight corners and when you bind fascia in specific ways. The binding allows for the potential for the fibers themselves to unwind and begin to animate and undulate. They have their own like dexterity, and it's a very cool experience, and that is the key to unlocking your whole body, remodeling it, how it looks, how it functions, how you capture your spirit, how your brain works, everything.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

Because I like to say to encourage students in their yoga to practice more somatically and focus on what they're feeling in downward dog, like moving. Oh, I'm feeling it here and moving towards that and feeling where I need a release. Or do it great. Yeah, feeling it rather than focusing on what it looks like. Yeah. And starting to tune in to improve your interoception and all of that. Perfect. Which trauma damages, but um can make hyper-vigilant, just so we know. Yes, true. Yeah, that narrows that window of tolerance, Dr. Dan Siegel. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:08

You've done a reading, you've done great weeding.

SPEAKER_01 41:10

Oh, so much to learn, but it, yeah, thank you. I'm trying. I'm impressed. Oh, thank you. Not as impressed as I am with your knowledge. But um I think someone would say to you though, if I don't bring my ribs to hips, aren't I gonna damage my back? Because I'm not uh, you know, they're like if I do that, right? Anna, and if I do that, my back's gonna get damaged because I'm not I'm not protecting my core.

SPEAKER_02 41:38

You're not holding my core. Number one, I believe in intelligent design. Here's what I would tell them the re you have a fleshy middle. There's a reason you're designed to have a fleshy middle. Yep, it is supposed to be soft and subtle and supple, it is supposed to be malleable and movable. Do not lock it up with muscle contraction. Secondly, muscles should not be your source of strength, they are weaker by 10 times what fascia is. Yep. And fascia does not strengthen by compressing and connecting, it strengthens by lengthening, kind of like a Chinese finger toy. When you push the woven toy that's a tube together, it loosens the fibers. But when you pull your fingers apart, the why the tube and the fibers pull apart, and you and it locks your fingers. And that is how fascia creates strength. So, yes, I'm asking you first to open your tubes, but then you actually have to learn how to use your fascia as the primary strength provider. Rather than the and it will not be from a muscle contraction, it'll be from how fascia strengthens, which is by length. And it just takes, you have to learn it.

SPEAKER_01 42:53

And so it's a and that's why you use traction with your equipment. Yeah, that's what I'm really fascinating about. Look at you, Liz. Oh no, I say I can see the Pilates influence with the springs and things, and I'm like, Oh, that traction, my back would really enjoy that.

SPEAKER_02 43:08

Everybody needs traction, more than more than the compression, but there's actually three primary actions.

SPEAKER_01 43:14

Yeah, there was compression, traction, and what was the other one? Rotation. That's right. Rotation. Yeah, well, that's that is amazing, Anna. I I have so many more questions in my head.

SPEAKER_02 43:25

We'll do this again.

SPEAKER_01 43:26

Yeah,

Book News And Learning Options

SPEAKER_01 43:27

I would love to do this again. Do you know when your book is out? Is there a date? We are hoping.

SPEAKER_02 43:32

I mean, they have 18 months to publish it, so that's contract. So we'll see. Uh we're in the front stages. So hopefully within you know, within the year, year and a half. I think it's more about the actual process. So it's written, manuscript ready. Um, I do am doing editorial editing um right now, so with the editors. So it's exciting because it's taken so long for this body of work to get to a place where I I think that it's pretty accessible. And it's a concept book, right? Like it took me 15 years to realize that I couldn't write an exercise book. I had so many agents that I went through that are like, well, this book doesn't have any like exercises in it. And I'm like, because you cannot teach movement, cinematic movement on the page by squares. You have to teach it through video. You have to teach how it moves in a sequence of cinematic experiences. So I gave up trying to teach. Here's what you do to strengthen your glute. Here's how you're going to get your abs flat. So I'm excited about it because it's like, here's a whole new fucking world. You want to blow up your world and be happier, healthier, like more whole, then this is how this is the idea behind it.

SPEAKER_01 44:51

And it's so it's kind of a fun idea, conceptualized book. And does it explain your story, how you did the research, how you came up with everything?

SPEAKER_02 44:59

It does. There's pieces of memoir in it. That was a that was a hard thing to layer in, right? It it has total pieces of memoir. Um, yeah. I don't know that it does it like it does on podcasts. You know, how you go, like, well, how did you find fashion? So it's not a sequential, like, here's how I found it. It's like, here's this piece. I this is my story that covers this piece of of reality that, you know, um, this is why I I do what is the word? Yeah, there's a thing of like lived experience, right? So it's kind of layered by lived experience.

SPEAKER_01 45:31

So people that would have been therapeutic in itself to write that, I think. A bit of narrative therapy there. But uh that sounds really interesting. I'll definitely be buying it and spreading the word. It's called Skin to Soul or something.

SPEAKER_02 45:45

Right. That was my working title, and then the publishers wanted to change it. So the working title now is called Vital Motion, and it may change again. So I wanted to call it Skin to Soul. My second book that I'm writing, it's not out into publishing mode, but that's called The Science and Soul of Stretch, which yoga people would really like. Oh, wow, there's another one. Great. Yeah, uh, they're brewing. I keep working on them. So Liz, I love being with you. You should come and take my free workshop. I only have two weekends left, but it's all about that book. I'm testing concept and stuff. It's on, I don't know that the times, but I've I've recorded it, so I'll send them to you.

SPEAKER_01 46:20

Yeah, I will definitely looking to that because I'm um setting up a home studio here. And are you pieces of equipment there that I want to learn more about anyway? It's a shame you don't do instructor training or something.

SPEAKER_02 46:33

Well, I was just gonna tell you this too, Sarah. She uh runs a Pilates studio, Yoga Pilates, up in Queensland in um the Gold Coast. And I first met her because I was down there and I she responded to wanting a fascia workshop. So I did a fascia workshop for her. That's how she met me. I may be going down there before the end of the year, and we're gonna start a teacher training. She all of her teachers want to do this. So it's in the works, we're coming. And so I'm and Australia is one of the first places because of this, you know, connection. So that would be really, really fun. And this is what I was gonna tell you. If you want the equipment, I can't ship it, it's too expensive. It would be absolutely god-awful. So she hand carried all of her equipment down there, and I can bring it to you if that's something you want. I don't think you want to pay for shipping. I'm pretty sure you don't.

SPEAKER_01 47:24

No, no, I didn't look into that, but I uh I I did want to talk to you about it. So you've got a great YouTube channel that's got that sink exercise. Yeah, that that's got that exercise where you um pull the kitchen sink for your fascia. Perfect.

SPEAKER_02 47:42

Have people start with that video, and you'll put it in your links for the uh listeners and they can try that because it really does, it's uh it's an experience. Like I can talk ideas all the time, but once you really connect into the fascia through GST, I think, because I just did a workshop at the uh fascia congress on fashion. I'm like, this doesn't even feel like this, this is fascia. I can feel that I'm moving my fascia, but it doesn't feel like what I'm talking about, which is what I'm excited about, which is that animation. So have people try it and and um tell me what they think because it feels so it's life giving, it's a life infusion for your body and your mind and spirit.

SPEAKER_01 48:23

Definitely is, and you've got a whole uh um, I haven't tried it out, I'll be honest yet. Be honest, I haven't yet, but it's on my to-do list for today. But now that I've be I've been focusing on looking at videos of you and listening to interviews and learning a bit more about you, but you've got a few ways people can work with you one-on-one. Yes, and they can book a discovery call for that, absolutely, and that comes through our website.

SPEAKER_02 48:56

And for people in Australia, I think maybe the easiest because of time difference. I have a couple people in Perth and um that they do our online, that's a really great. We have an online studio and it's got so many things. The categories are endless. We have, you know, therapies, we have like golf, you know, training, we have um, you know, somatic release and body work stuff. And so it's a really beautiful place to just explore and start and and start your journey because um it's a great community. We answer questions, it's really live and active. And so you don't feel like you're doing 80s, you know, exercise videos at home. You're uh I'm with you. And so that's a nice option for people who are international and aren't and um doing it. But if you ever want to take a uh midnight exercise class, I teach every day live because we love to be together in community, and so that's another way.

SPEAKER_01 49:53

Those are well, funny you should say that about Australia because most of my list is are American anyway. Are they the yeah, the the stats usually show that? So a lot of them, you know, that time difference is not an issue, but it's good to know that for my fellow Aussies and other people in the southern history, yeah. I never know.

SPEAKER_02 50:11

Isn't that fun how globalism just connects us all? I really love that, you know. You have impacts on a continent you didn't even, you know, and you're not from because you're able to share your wisdom and knowledge. That's great.

SPEAKER_01 50:23

Yeah, that is great. There are good things about this modern world as well, it's not just all bad. So but I will share all your links on the sh in the show notes, of course, and any emails and promotions. Well, thank you. And it's been so fun. Thank you for coming on the show, and it's been fantastic to have you.

SPEAKER_02 50:45

It's been a pleasure. I love spending time with you. I love that you're bringing more of this to the world. Thanks for helping me.

SPEAKER_01 50:51

My pleasure.

Review Request And Closing

SPEAKER_01 50:53

Thanks again for tuning in. If you loved the show, my guests and I would really appreciate a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts. Until next time, never forget the power of yoga.