11: Tips on Feeding Picky Eaters from a Former Picky Eater & Dietitian

Sally Kuzemchak is a registered dietitian and founder of Real Mom Nutrition, where she shares down-to-earth advice about feeding kids plus simple recipes--and since she's a former picky eater, they're all created with the finicky palate in mind. Her passion is helping moms feel more confident, and less guilt and confusion around feeding their families. She's the author of two books and has been published in numerous magazines and online outlets including Parents, Simply Recipes, and WebMD. 

In this episode, Sarah and Sally discuss: 

• Sally's personal journey with picky eating as a child and adult
• The challenges of feeding her own children and how she approaches things differently as a former picky eater
• Feeding strategies for kids and how Sally employs to create a no-pressure, positive eating environment
• How parents can show empathy towards picky eating
• How to handle meal refusals
• Her ongoing journey of reintroducing foods she has never tried due to picky eating preferences

Sally's free picky eating course

Transcript

Welcome back to the Managing Mealtime Madness podcast. Our guest today is Sally Kuzemchak. Sally, I really hope I pronounced that correctly. Sally is a friend and dietician colleague, and this conversation was actually so much fun to have.

Sally had reached out talking about the series she was doing about picky eating as a former picky eater herself. And it definitely got my attention because I think this will appeal to parents who of course have selective or picky eaters or who have selective eating tendencies themselves. And Sally talks to us about how there's hope and how we can respect kids' preferences without providing pressure at meal times.

So I really, really think you're gonna love this episode. Now, a little bit more about Sally. Sally Kuzemchak is a registered dietician and founder of Real Mom Nutrition, where she shares down to earth advice about feeding kids, as well as simple recipes. And since she's a former picky eater, they're all created with the finicky palate in mind. Her passion is helping moms feel more confident and less guilt and confusion when feeding their families.

She's the author of two books and has been published in numerous magazines and online outlets, including Parents, Simply Recipes, and WebMD. In her spare time, she loads and unloads the dishwasher, then loads it again. I'm so excited for you to hear this conversation with Sally. And as a reminder, please, please rate and review the podcast, especially if you love what you're hearing, if you love certain episodes, I would love to hear some feedback on them.

You can always reach out to me or leave comments on the Apple Podcast or Podcast Listener app of choice that you use. Okay. Thank you so much. I hope you enjoy this episode.

Hi, Sally, welcome to the podcast. I'm so excited to talk to you today.

Sally K. (02:45)
Thanks for having me.

Sarah S. (02:47)
Can you tell listeners a little bit about yourself?

Sally K. (02:51)
Sure, I am a registered dietitian. I'm a mom of two boys. I live in Ohio and I blog at RealMomNutrition.com which I call down to earth advice from a dietitian mom.

Sarah S. (03:04)
love your site and I really love your email list too. think the emails you send out are so authentic and the recipes and information you share is so so helpful.

Sally K. (03:14)
Thank you. That's nice.

Sarah S. (03:16)
So today we're going to talk a little bit about your picky eating journey, which I'll let Sally tell you about that. But as we lead into that, can you tell us a little bit about your experience with food in your house growing up?

Sally K. (03:31)
Sure. So I grew up ⁓ with a mom and a dad and a brother and my brother ate pretty much everything and I was an extremely picky eater. And I guess I didn't realize the extent of my picky eating until I kind of, as a dietitian, started learning about picky eating. I learned this term, extreme picky eating. And as I read about it, I was like, ⁓ that was me.

⁓ So yeah, I was your sort quintessential picky eater. I liked buttered noodles. I didn't want ⁓ sauce on my spaghetti. ⁓ I ate pretty much a different dinner almost every night. My mom made me something else, whereas my brother was just eating everything. So when people talk about having multiple kids and one is a really picky eater and one is not,

I feel like I really lived that and saw how even children raised in the exact same environment can be very different when it comes to their food preferences.

Sarah S. (04:33)
Yeah, your case study sounds so unique with with like, maybe it's genetic.

Sally K. (04:38)
Mm-hmm. I just didn't, I didn't want to eat a lot at one time and I didn't like a lot of food. So my mom tells this story that we had these little Tupperware bowls and she would just sort of hand me one with like apple slices or pieces of cheese or whatever on the go and just hope that I got enough sort of calories by the end of the

Sarah S. (05:01)
Was there anything like any event in your mind that kicked this off? Like maybe you had a bad experience with the food or got sick after eating or is this kind of just always how it's been as you remember it?

Sally K. (05:13)
It's always how it's been as I remember it and still to this day I have some sensitivities around texture and appearance and I still have a handful of foods where ⁓ that texture or how it looks can sort of trigger me to not want anything to do with it. I don't want to touch it. don't, you know, I don't want to.

feel the texture in my mouth. I don't want it on my plate. So I just think it's just still in there. Even though I don't consider myself a picky eater anymore, I just think it's part of sort of my DNA to be a little extra sensitive about about food.

Sarah S. (05:51)
Yeah, and I'm curious if you're willing to explain more like this texture thing, what foods are kind of repulsive to you, but also is there a fear that like once it's in your mouth, you won't know what to do or it'll just taste so bad? Like what is kind of the fear associated with it?

Sally K. (06:09)
So it's a texture that is like squishy or mushy or sort of slimy. So when you think about something like a cooked eggplant or even a creme brulee, even pudding. So it's those kind of mushy, squishy, slimy textures that I just don't like the feel of it in my mouth. And even I'm really sensitive to meat and poultry if there's gristle or fat or skin.

⁓ I'm extremely like repulsed by that feeling in my mouth. So, and I don't know why it sounds silly to be talking about this as an adult, but it's still, there's still like, I don't eat creme brulee, like I don't eat cooked eggplant. There are still these things I've carried over ⁓ in my adult life. ⁓ there, you know, those are the, there's a definitely common denominator with those textures.

Sarah S. (07:09)
And I don't think you're alone in that. I think there are certain textures that throw people off. My husband, it's tiramisu. He is not a fan of that texture and or flavor. But I'm curious going back to your childhood again. So your mom was willing to make these extra meals for you, which sounds great. What a superstar. What was it like being at friend's houses, being at school or out to eat with other families? Do you remember kind of how

That was handled

Sally K. (07:41)
Yeah, so my mom is just such a sweet, gentle, kind spirit. And so she would just, she never forced me to eat anything. She never made me take a bite. She never made me clean my plate. And, you know, when I grew up in the seventies and the eighties, when there were plenty of, of kids who were made to sit at the table and finish their meal or take a certain number of bites.

Home was felt very safe and I never felt pressured at the table. I never felt worried about that environment Definitely felt worried at friends houses. I remember ⁓ You know just being worried about what was for dinner ⁓ and Going out to eat was very much like, you know, I loved bread still do so I knew okay I could eat bread but

You know, we didn't go out to eat a lot as a family, would say, growing up, but it was more so at friends' And even at that time, I was a little bit embarrassed about my eating. And I, you get a fear of like, what if they serve XYZ and I have to eat it? You know, and as I got older, I just sort of was like, you know what? ⁓ It's rude.

you know, I'm an adult, it's rude, I'm just going to eat it. But as a kid, it's just all fear, you know. So, you know, we would go to a cookout or something and I would eat like a hot dog bun and some fruit, you know. I still to this day don't eat hot dogs actually, but like there just would be so few foods that I would eat, but I would somehow sort of manage, you know, to get by. So yeah, I've

Sarah S. (09:22)
Yeah, were there ever any growth concerns or did you ever see a pediatrician? It sounds like it invoked some anxiety for you at least when thinking about eating outside of your comfort zone. But I'm curious if your parents were worried or if they took you to see any feeding specialists or anything like that.

Sally K. (09:41)
No, you I'm, you know, you've met me in person, so you know I'm kind of a small person. I always have been. My mom is really small too, and you know, I'm just, I'm about five foot one, and so is my mom, so I was always the smallest in my class, and I think my parents just assumed, you know, I was just gonna be like my mom, so no, I never was taken to see anybody, but I know that my mom, my mom was worried. You know, she just wanted me to.

You know, I think as mothers, we just have this primal instinct to feed our children. And when they're not eating for whatever reason, it just sort of like brings up all these emotions and this worry. So yeah, that's why she was just sort of handing me these little bowls of food just to get some food in me. And she did talk about, you know, she still remembers just...

sort of a mixture of, which I'm sure a lot of parents of picky eaters can relate to, a mixture of concern but also frustration. You know, she talks about, you know, I would ask, she would offer me something to eat and I would say no and she'd say, well, how about this? And she'd bring it to me and I'd be like, no, I don't want that. And that would just kind of go on. And I remember her saying, you know, just like, just how frustrated she would be, you know, just like pulling her hair out, like just wanting me to eat something.

Sarah S. (11:05)
Yeah. So as you grew up, you went to school for nutrition. Do you think this kind of was the impetus for going to school for nutrition or were you always just interested in it?

Sally K. (11:18)
So my undergraduate degree is not in nutrition. I went to school ⁓ for English and I...

Sarah S. (11:24)
You're a clear changer, me too!

Sally K. (11:26)
Yeah, and but you know I went to Penn State and I was interning at the college magazine and they assigned me to write a story about Leanne Burch and I don't know if you if that name rings a bell. She is a very famous researcher and she's done a lot of, she passed away actually ⁓ not too long ago, but she did a lot of pioneering research about feeding children, especially feeding

preschoolers and you know, for instance, like the research around pressuring children to eat. If you look at those studies, she's often listed as one of the authors. So I went to her lab and I interviewed her for a story undergrad and I was like, wow, this not only interests me personally because like, you know, this was, you know, my background as a child who didn't want to eat a lot of things, but it also just sort of

you know, I just kind of tucked it away in the back of my mind how interested I was in that. yeah, I'm a career changer. So I started writing about nutrition and decided to go back to school to become a dietician. really when I, you know, when I really started thinking about it more was when I had my own kids.

Sarah S. (12:46)
Yeah, tell us about that transition and what was it like having these memories from your childhood and even to this day, some fears around certain foods and, you know, preferences we'll say about textures. How did that play into feeding your family?

Sally K. (13:05)
So when I had kids, I was very intent on, I don't want them to be picky eaters. And not just for me, because it's tough to feed picky eaters, but also because I know what that's like to be a picky eater. And I know that sort of fear and anxiety and embarrassment, you know, as you get older, you get embarrassed by it. And I also didn't want to be making multiple meals every night. And so I really set out when

I first had kids to be like, I am going to make one dinner and I'm not going to offer the plate of buttered noodles or the plain chicken patty or all the things that I would eat. I'm just gonna offer dinner with some accommodations, of course. ⁓ So I really did that from the beginning. I think because I did that, it was easier.

I didn't have to say, you know what, I'm not gonna make a peanut butter and jelly every night as your sort of default food, which I know when I talk to parents about try to serve one meal, it's hard when you've gone down that path of offering the different thing every night. It's not impossible, of course, but it's easier when you've kind of done that from the beginning. So that was definitely something that I set out to do from the start.

And I think though, I think I understand when my kids have certain preferences and I still make mistakes. I still continue to make mistakes where I might, you know, accidentally pressure them to eat something or say like, I can't believe you don't like this. You know, why don't you like this? ⁓ But I think ⁓ I was never, you have to eat a bite. ⁓ I remember I did that with

we did that with our first child, said, we did the whole like, take one bite of everything. And he was pretty agreeable with that. And then I had my second and he just was like not having that at all. And I realized in that moment, you know, this doesn't work for every kid. And how could I possibly make him take a bite of something when I myself don't want to take a bite of certain foods? You know, imagining someone saying, you have to, you know,

take three bites of this cooked eggplant. I wouldn't want to do it. And I thought, how can I ask my kid to do that?

Sarah S. (15:36)
Yeah, it probably makes you so much more empathetic than parents who grew up without that experience that you have.

Sally K. (15:44)
And luckily, you know, for better or for worse, I married someone who's a ⁓ former really picky eater too. So I think we both kind of came to it understanding, you know, sometimes the food texture really grosses you out or sometimes, you know, this just is just the idea of having it on your plate is just,

Sarah S. (16:05)
Yeah, overwhelming. Have you ever thought about what would have happened had your mom only made one meal and not made separate meals for you? Do you think you would have eventually tried it or do you think you would have just kept skipping meals and starved?

Sally K. (16:24)
I think I would have probably kept skipping meals and then just snacked. I was just a cereal snacker when I was young. I just snacked all the time and I still snack. I still like to snack.

Sarah S. (16:37)
⁓ I'm a huge snacker. Snack proponent here.

Sally K. (16:40)
Yeah, I don't eat a lot at meals. Like I get full pretty fast and so I, you know, I have to snack in order to just sort of get everything that I need. So no, I don't think I would have given in and eaten those foods. It just took me growing up and maturing and ⁓ meeting new people and getting new experiences to suddenly be brave enough to say, you know what, I am going to try.

sauce on my spaghetti and see what it's like. And then when I did, it was like a revelation of, wow, this is actually really good. And that just sort of kept happening.

Sarah S. (17:21)
Tell us about your experience introducing, reintroducing some of these foods that you formerly didn't like. ⁓ What have you reintroduced and how has the process been?

Sally K. (17:33)
So I think it started in college when I just started meeting new people and eating with new people. I think your friends growing up kind of get used to your quirks and then when you go out in the world to new places and meet new people and you're sitting down to meals and you're seeing what other people are eating and you're thinking, I don't want to be the person at the table who just eats the bread. want to be.

you know, normal quote unquote and eat the entree or eat what someone is serving me or maybe what they've made, what they've made for me. And I was an exchange student in France and I just felt like I needed to make what my host family made or I needed to at least try it. And I honestly didn't have the language capabilities to sort of explain. So it was like, you know what, I'm just gonna be brave. I'm gonna eat this. And sometimes it was like take a little bite

and then eat a bunch of bread and then take a little bite, you know, kind of get through it that way. ⁓ And sometimes I would take a bite of something and realize I really liked it. So there are a ton of foods actually that I did not eat until I was a little bit older. So everything from, you know, onions. I was one of those kids that if there were little like pieces of chopped up onions, I would like either not want it or I would surgically sort of remove every piece of onion.

And now, you know, I happily eat, you know, quick pickled onions on a taco or, you know, anything like that. ⁓ Lots of different vegetables, especially cooked vegetables. So I never ate cooked peppers, cooked cauliflower, green beans. I never ate green beans until I was an adult. avocado, I never had avocado, ⁓ prosciutto sprouts, asparagus. ⁓

A of things like that. lot of different kinds of fish. ⁓ Oysters, I still haven't had. I still have a list of things I still haven't had. And I know you've seen my series on Instagram where I'm revisiting some of those foods that I've never had. So I still have like a healthy list of foods. I still don't eat tomatoes. ⁓ Like raw whole tomatoes, you know, like a slice of tomato. ⁓

but I'll eat tomato sauce. So there are certain things where I haven't gone the full way, but I've taken a step. If I have a sauce with chunks of tomato, I will eat it, but I still won't eat a slice of tomato or something like that, or on my salad, like a grape tomato or something like that, cherry tomato. That's on my list. I'm gonna try it.

Sarah S. (20:23)
You did ketchup recently, Wow. I never heard of that one.

Sally K. (20:28)
Yeah, I'd never, I'd eaten ketchup in sauces. So like I'd made, you know, like a quick barbecue sauce or a glaze for a meatloaf with ketchup before, like ketchup mixed with other things, but just straight ketchup, like dipping a french fry in ketchup, I had never done in my life. And so I went to Wendy's, I got french fries and ketchup and came home and that was tough.

the appearance of ketchup grosses me out and the texture and ⁓ I had the tiniest tiniest little bit on a french fry and I was pleasantly surprised by the flavor I have to say it tasted more like barbecue sauce than I thought it would I thought it would be a sort of a sweeter tomatoey sort of flavor and I like barbecue sauce so I was I was pleasantly surprised by the flavor but

still did not like the appearance and still do not plan to continue. Like just eat ketchup, you know, on french fries. But I felt like with a lot of these things that I'm trying in this series, I feel like, okay, maybe I'm not quite as grossed out by this food now as I used to be because I know what it tastes like.

Sarah S. (21:46)
makes sense. So what are some other foods in the series? So Sally has a series on Instagram where she's filming herself actually live trying it for the first time. So it's really fun to watch. So what are some of the other foods you've done in this series?

Sally K. (22:01)
My first one was peanut butter and jelly. And I know that one sounds crazy because I think for a lot of people who have picky eaters, a PB &J is one of their safe foods that they like. I had never eaten peanut butter and jelly together. And most of that is an appearance thing again. It looked gloppy and mushy and I didn't like how it looked. I had eaten jelly, I'd eaten peanut butter, I'd never eaten them together. So ⁓ I liked the taste of that. I can't say I've had it.

PBJ scents, but I took a couple bites of that and was like, oh yeah, I can see why people like this. It was salty, it was sweet, it tasted good. I tried olives. I did not like olives, I have to say. Did not like that flavor. I thought it was a very strong, strange flavor. Yes, just sort of so intensely salty. But the texture didn't repulse me as much as I thought it would.

Sarah S. (22:59)
They are little slimy. They can be.

Sally K. (23:01)
Yeah, yeah, but when I when I actually had it in my mouth, I was like, OK, that's not as mushy as I thought it would be. ⁓ Pickles. I like raw cucumbers in vinegar, but I'd never had pickles. And again, it's an appearance thing. I thought they would be mushy. I was pleasantly surprised that they were not mushy. They were actually like a little crisp. Yeah, and I liked the flavor. Again, will I start eating pickles? I don't know, but ⁓ I feel better knowing.

they taste. And if I had to take another bite of a pickle I would and I wouldn't be worried or you know fearful of it. ⁓ So and then I just tried a deviled egg for Easter. I've never had deviled eggs. I did not like a deviled egg. Did not. I eat eggs did not enjoy the deviled egg.

Sarah S. (23:50)
favorite either to be honest. I like my cooked eggs.

Sally K. (23:54)
Yeah, I feel like in this series I'm finding a lot of people are saying, oh yeah, I don't like that either. Oh, I've never had a double date either. it does, makes me feel better that I'm not alone in a lot of these foods. And people are telling me they're watching, they're watching the series with their kids, which makes me really happy because I think, you know, picky eaters just want to be understood and

It's not something that they're doing to drive you nuts and to get under your skin and just to be difficult. Like it is the emotions around it are real. You know, the fear is real. And I think as I'm trying it live on camera, I think, I hope, and I think people can see that fear, you know, that hesitation, you know, and I say in the series a couple of times, like my mouth is watering, like not in a good way. You know, you just thinking about eating this.

Sarah S. (24:48)
Yeah.

Sally K. (24:50)
And I think hopefully, it's my hope that parents will see that and get a little glimpse into like, okay, this is what my five-year-old who I just think is difficult, that's what she's going through. ⁓ And it's real. And I need to be maybe a little more compassionate or understanding about it or just be a little more patient, you know.

Sarah S. (25:11)
And I definitely want to go down that rabbit hole a little bit too. I know you have a blog post about this and I'm curious speaking to those parents, you know, at first you said serve one meal, you did that with your kids at least. What are some other tips you have for these parents who maybe have these picky selective eaters? I like your point where like it's real, the emotion's real, ⁓ it's okay to have food preferences.

What else would you tell these parents who maybe feel stressed or frustrated as your mom did about dealing with these situations?

Sally K. (25:49)
I think first and foremost, don't call your kids picky eaters. I think you don't want to label your child as, you're a picky eater, so then they go through life. I'm a picky eater and I don't like a lot of foods. You're sort of already finishing the story for them. And I honestly don't remember if my mom ever called me a picky eater. I just know that I always...

I never felt worried about coming to the table. So just make sure your kids aren't worried about coming to the table, that it's a welcoming place, that they're not gonna feel pressured or nagged or whatever when they get there and they don't wanna try X, Y, Z. I think keeping sort of that neutral, and I know it's so hard. I'm not saying I did all these things perfectly raising my kids either, but like coming to the table with sort of that

that neutral attitude of, you know, here are these foods, you can eat them if you want. You know, if you don't like this, we have this. And then just enjoying, you know, I'm sure you preach that too, enjoying your own food and seeing your kids, you know, model eating different kinds of foods, but not putting such a weight and a burden on your kids to eat, you know, what you want them to eat. That's their choice of what and how much to eat, as I know that you tell parents too.

And you know, if your kids want to try something to be really open to it, I tell this story of we were on a road trip once and my younger son, we were somewhere and he wanted onion rings. And that is definitely a food that I did not eat as a kid and probably wouldn't eat now. And my knee jerk was to say, oh, you wouldn't like those or like, cause I didn't want to waste the money. I don't want to buy an order of onion rings just to have him

take one bite and be grossed out. And then I realized in that moment, like, wait, wait, wait, what am I doing? I want him, if he wants to try something, I want to let him try it. So he ordered the onion rings and he ate them and he liked them. And so I think sometimes as, as parents, we want to jump in and say like, you wouldn't like that. Or you've tried that before and didn't like it. And I think just letting your kids.

explore and be very open and stay neutral and with that no pressure attitude ⁓ and let them sort of chart their own course when it comes to this. Keep offering it, you know, keep offering it in different ways. ⁓ Another time I remember out traveling and I was eating a salad and my son reached over and said, I want to try cucumbers and he took the cucumber off my salad and ate it. He had never tried cucumbers and wouldn't eat them.

And he liked it. So it was just those moments were just really cool to see something kind of click in their little heads, like, I want to try this. And then to see them discovered is a really cool experience as a parent.

Sarah S. (28:51)
Yeah, I agree. And kids' preferences, I feel like when they're younger, just change so quickly. Like, they love strawberries and then the next week they don't. I remember my daughter, my first, initially she really liked shrimp, shrimpies, she would call them. And then, I don't know, when she turned two, something happened, don't like them anymore. And then at some point we served them as a family dinner and she's like, I don't like shrimp. Remember mom? And I said, yeah, that's okay.

you know, if you want to try it, it's there. Otherwise we have XYZ on the table and she tried it and she's like, I do like this. And I said, ⁓ that's interesting. You know, just kind of trying not to make a big deal out of it. But to your point, I mean, they're, can change and they're, they're allowed to have their own opinions and they're allowed to change their food preferences too.

Sally K. (29:40)
Yeah, and I think that's so important is to keep serving that food, you know, like obviously you're not going to make your kids sit and eat it. But, know, like guacamole, my younger son didn't like guacamole. And I remember I put a little bit of it on his quesadilla and he got so mad at me because he's like, you know, I don't like guacamole. And again, that was a little mistake. Like I was like, what's wrong in there? And so I was like, okay, you know, and then he ended up

liking it and he would make his own little batches of guacamole. I didn't stop serving it because he didn't like it. It just, you know, was an option for him. And I think sometimes kids see something enough that they are like, you know what, I think I'm going to try that again. And it may take, you know, I don't like that whole like, it'll take 10 to 15 times because as a former picky eater, I know it could take years.

You know, I don't want parents to think, after 15 times, then my child is going to automatically eat this. It's like, well, that's, that may not be the case, but it may be years down the road, but wouldn't you rather them come to that on their own and have a good experience with it than have a bad experience with something because they were made to eat it. And that definitely happens to people.

Sarah S. (30:54)
Mm-hmm. yeah, absolutely. I've seen and heard all about that, especially when there is so much pressure at the table, pressure to eat certain foods where kids internalize that pressure. And yeah, I think the long-term effects are a lot more damaging in that kind of scenario.

Sally K. (31:12)
Yeah, and they have, there are research studies about that where they ask people to remember a food that they were made to eat. And the majority of them don't like that food to this day, you know, because they had such a bad experience. You know, I don't know if you ever got sick on a food when you were pregnant, but I definitely did. And I still to this day, like those foods are a little like, it's just, it's a bad association.

Sarah S. (31:35)
Yeah, yeah, no, definitely. For me, it was oatmeal. I used to be an oatmeal person every morning and something about second pregnancy, I kind of just got repulsed by oatmeal and now I'm just, it doesn't excite me as much as it used to. I know, I know. I gotta do the overnight oats more. ⁓ I think, I know that's a weird texture. It's a different texture, but I like the creaminess of it. ⁓ I think it's like the bowl of hot oatmeal just isn't appealing to me anymore.

Sally K. (31:49)
Aw, that's too bad.

Mine was chicken, so I get it. That's what happened to me in my pregnancy was chicken. Yeah, I mean, I'll still eat it, but it has to be kind of under the right sort of circumstances.

Sarah S. (32:09)
wow.

Right. So for parents who are trying to have that empathy for their eaters and you shared so many helpful tips, what would you tell them if they've made a meal and their kids don't even touch it? ⁓ How could they handle that situation with empathy, but also, you know, of course, wanting their children to get nutrition. Do you have any advice for those kind of situations? Yeah.

Sally K. (32:41)
So probably a similar similar advice that you give is, know, just to make sure there's something there that you know that they like. I think it's I think it's kind of unfair to serve a meal that you know your child doesn't like. just to me, that was just that's personal preference. Some people might disagree, but I was never a sort of take it or leave it. What's on the table is what you get. And I know there are some people that feel comfortable with that. I never felt comfortable doing that as as a mom.

So I knew my kid didn't like, say, meatloaf, then I would make sure I had something else on the table. Like maybe it was mashed potatoes or maybe it was green beans or whatever that I knew that they liked. And so, know, okay, if you don't want the meatloaf, there are other things on the table. And if I knew it was something that they liked, so like spaghetti, for instance, if I knew that they liked it, but they just didn't...

eat it or want it or said they weren't hungry, I would actually save their plate and I would wrap it up and put it in the fridge. And then when they came back and said they were hungry, like, you know, an hour later, 30 minutes later, I just say very matter of factly, like, you know what, saved your plate. So now you're hungry. And, know, you know, if you're not hungry at dinner time, like, I'm not going to force you to eat your meal. But now that you're hungry, I saved it. And I think at first my

my child was like wait that I didn't I didn't want dinner I wanted a yogurt or whatever it is and but then after a while was like you know it's not a punishment it's just a like hey if you weren't hungry at five that's okay and now it's six and you're hungry so I'll reheat this for you you know and you can have a later meal time ⁓ so that's that's kind of how I handled it you know once my kids became teenagers and their appetites went nuts then a lot of this

can go out the window, which is something for people with younger kids to look forward to, is that sometimes that appetite just trumps everything else.

Sarah S. (34:46)
Yeah. And I love how you did it nonchalantly. Like, I saved your plate because you're not making it such a big deal. It's like, ⁓ you're hungry. Here's food. You know, kind of like just, I think part of it is taking the emphasis off of everything. And maybe that ties in with pressure. Like when you're sitting down for a family meal, ⁓ you don't just have to, don't, doesn't that broccoli look so good? You know, it's more like, how was your day? What, what did you talk about in math? You know, I find that just,

Taking the pressure off, even taking the attention off ⁓ and having them focus on other things can even just make the meal more enjoyable and then maybe they're more apt to have a positive experience with XYZ food.

Sally K. (35:28)
Yeah, think prioritizing a really pleasant, happy table is to me, that's just number one. And again, I certainly made a number of mistakes with my kids in terms of pressuring them to eat at the table. I absolutely did that when I first. You know, I did the, you have to take three more bites of broccoli and two more bites of peas or whatever. I totally did that. And then.

Sarah S. (35:45)
Yeah.

Sally K. (35:56)
I sort of realized one day, like, how can I possibly know how much food, how many bites they should take? know, like if my husband, you know, leaned over and said, you have to, you know, eat three more bites of chicken before you can finish with dinner. I'd be like, I don't want to eat three more bites of chicken, you know? So, ⁓ yeah, but I do think as much as you can to make the table a pleasant place.

Sarah S. (36:24)
Yeah, and I think you come at it from such a unique perspective, having that lived experience and then just having so much more empathy because I think as parents, we just can see it with frustration. Like, what do you mean you're not going to eat this? What do mean you don't like that or this or that? Whereas instead, you know, putting ourselves in the kids shoes or if these are all new foods together, that is overwhelming. having, yeah, just having some understanding, I think is really important. So

Thank you for sharing all your tips. Are there any other tips or resources that you would like to share?

Sally K. (36:59)
people go on Instagram and check out my series because it's fun and I try to keep it really light. But ⁓ I have many more foods on my list. I have a whole list of foods to try. So I will tease it out a little bit. Exclusive for you, Sarah, on your podcast is one of those foods. is an exclusive. One of those foods which I honestly I do not know if I'm going to be able to eat. I have never eaten a McDonald's hamburger.

Sarah S. (37:30)
Okay.

Sally K. (37:31)
No, I'm going to try to taste one. Like, I've never had a fast food burger.

Sarah S. (37:39)
Mm-hmm. Do McDonald's put pickles on it? Are you gonna eat it as is or are you gonna make some adjustments?

Sally K. (37:47)
I think I will just, I mean, what does it come with? It comes with pickles.

Sarah S. (37:51)
I am trying to remember. It's been a while. I feel like they're handheld and you're not doing like a double or Big Mac or anything. I'm trying to think maybe some ketchup and like the little circle pickles, but I could be wrong.

Sally K. (38:06)
Yeah, that makes me very nervous.

Sarah S. (38:08)
Maybe you just do plain, because there's cheese too.

Sally K. (38:12)
Yeah, I mean, we went to, we were in California and we went to In-N-Out and I thought, okay, this is, I'm going to try In-N-Out burger because they're so famous and I could not do it. I think it did have, it did have various things on it. And I, that's my hangup is the various things.

Sarah S. (38:29)
It's hard to prepare when there's multiple layers that might not be attractive to you.

Sally K. (38:35)
Yeah, and I do think that's an important thing. You know, that's why, you know, a lot of kids don't like mixed dishes like a casserole or something. And I can say as a former picky eater, having those multiple textures in your mouth at one time is is really what it is. ⁓ Is, okay, this this piece is, you know, this meat is sort of stringy and chewy, but these peas are mushy and this gravy is, you know, it's like they're all these textures coming at you at one time.

Sarah S. (38:51)
I think.

Sally K. (39:05)
And so to me, that's the issue with a burger is all those different things.

Sarah S. (39:11)
That's really, I think that's just good for parents to hear when we're in that, because I've never considered that. Like I'll just pretty much eat anything. So that gives more empathy for me, for my kids. I like to serve things deconstructed anyway. I feel like for kids, it's helpful to have the separation. But for parents out there, maybe that'll help you if they're resistant to certain foods. It could be all of the textures together and maybe there's a different way you can serve that. There's an

dietitian on Instagram that I really like and she talks about being considerate, not catering, but being considerate, considerate, not catering. And essentially it's like, you don't necessarily have to make a meal from scratch for someone who wants something different, but you can be considerate when you're serving the meal to your point, like having that safe food on the table that you know they'll like. And if they're not going to eat the main thing, like having other options. And I think

that's something we can all can all do as parents. It sounds very fair and ⁓ you know to make the enjoyable eating experience a little bit more likely.

Sally K. (40:18)
Yeah, I agree.

Sarah S. (40:21)
Okay, Sally, well, is there a cadence on your releasing these series episodes? Is it like once a week? When do we tune in?

Sally K. (40:31)
It's pretty much whenever I can, you know, get up the gumption and it was funny at Easter I was just sitting there with my family and someone brought out the tray of deviled eggs and I was like, oh, I've never had a devil egg before and everyone looked at me like, well, are you gonna, are you gonna do a video on it? It was like, oh, jeez.

Sarah S. (40:49)
so you were really put on the spot there. There was no preparation for that one. that was not that.

Sally K. (40:53)
idea but I was like you know it's kind of like when someone dares you to do something you're like all right I'm gonna do it so I don't know we'll see

Sarah S. (41:01)
Okay, and on Instagram you are real mom nutrition, right? I am. Okay, so you can find her there and her blog and Sally I'll let you close us out. Anything else you want listeners to know or where they could find you if they also have picky eaters and maybe just want to talk to you a little bit more about that.

Sally K. (41:05)
downcast.

Sure, I have a lot of posts on my salieatrealmommnutrition.com about picky eating. I have a free email series, I think it's a six week email series that kind of walks you through different things to do every week. I read every single email. a small operation around here. So feel free to reach out to me at salieatrealmommnutrition.com and I'll read your email and help where I can. ⁓ But just I like.

I like moms to know that they're not alone and it's not their fault and there's no reason to feel guilty about your child's eating and just to hang in there.

Sarah S. (41:56)
Yeah, thank you for bringing, you know, some realness to this topic. And we'll put all of those resources in the show notes. We'll put Sally's free email sequence in the show notes as well. Okay, thanks, Sally.

Sally K. (42:08)
Sounds good. Thank you, Sarah.