13: Understanding School Lunch Dynamics with Alex Turnbull, RD

Childhood nutrition is a complex issue! In this episode,  Sarah and Alex Turnbull, RD discuss the challenges of child nutrition, particularly in the context of school food service. As a Registered Dietitian who used to work in school food service, Alex talks about many of the challenges that school nutrition programs face, including funding, food policies, offer vs. serve and more. 

In this episode:

• How parents can reduce pressure when serving healthy meals to kids
• How school meals are often healthier than what we perceive
• Managing expectations around what children should and will eat, and what parents can focus on when packing school lunch 
• Regulations governing school lunches and funding 
• Access to nutritious meals should be a right for all children
• How understanding food policies can help advocate for better nutrition

Learn more about Alex. Check out her website for feeding tips and her wonderful Instagram. 

Transcript

Sarah Schlichter (00:00)
Hi Alex, it's so nice to see you today. It's been what, two months? Couple months?

Alex Turnbull (00:05)
Yeah, I think so. It sounds wild, but yeah, it has been since January, so it's a

Sarah Schlichter (00:10)
Yeah,

Alex and I traveled to Germany together in January, which was a really fun but super packed trip.

Alex Turnbull (00:18)
Yes, yeah. It's great to see you in real life.

Sarah Schlichter (00:20)
So I know,

I know that's like the best part about some of these opportunities is that the dietitians and friends you talk to through social media or you feel like you know them, you're actually able to finally meet in person. So that was a long time coming. I'm so happy that we were able to do that. So why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself?

Alex Turnbull (00:44)
Yeah, I can do that. So I'm a registered dietitian, ⁓ born and raised in Minnesota. So I'm hanging out here in Minnesota and we get all of the seasons. ⁓ Don't know how long they are when they come. But let's see. So I am a mom of two like you, I'm a mom and I have a five and seven year old and they are my life. ⁓ But before I became a mom, I was actually a school food service dietitian.

which I absolutely loved. I loved school food service. I kind of found it after I started as a dietician in long-term care and realized this was not for me, that target population, but got into school food service at a public school here in Minnesota, worked there for six years. And I had the pleasure of just really having the opportunity to make a big impact on the program, the menu, making it

more nutritionally sound, and then also exposing kids to just so many things, especially fruits and vegetables, which we know is a frustrating point ⁓ for families at home and at school going in the trash. So really helping build that awareness around that and the excitement around school food service. And holy cow, did I learn a lot working in school food service, which we'll talk about today. But ⁓ while I was there, I started my family.

have my daughter and kind of started this journey of on social media, like taking pictures of her food back when Instagram was like, what, just graphics and people were interested on the baby led weaning and how do I my kids? And then it just evolved into this basically platform where I could educate parents as a expert in child nutrition. And

And then eventually it was like, wow, I can make a career out of this. So I left my full time job when my daughter was going to start kindergarten. That was kind of my goal. Can I do this? Realized it wasn't sustainable to do both, even though I really did enjoy both. ⁓ And now I'm here full time ⁓ as a family nutritionist on Instagram and really help families feed their kids, parents feed their kids with, you know, less stress, more fun, not as much fear, stress or guilt. Because that's we have we have enough of that.

So, dinner table, so.

Sarah Schlichter (03:06)
Yes, and one reason I was so excited to meet you is I feel that our values and the way we teach nutrition is very similar and aligns and very much agree with all the things you do. And yeah, totally want to hear about the school nutrition background, but I didn't realize it kind of started as a side hustle. Do you think that if it hadn't grown as quickly as it did, would you still be working in food service?

Alex Turnbull (03:30)
I, yes, I think child nutrition and school food service probably would have been where I'm at. Like I still kind of miss it this day and I dabble in it a little bit here and there. I'm on our local wellness ⁓ committee, which I highly recommend if any parents really want to have a voice in their school lunch program or just mental health wellness in their school district, that is the committee you need to get on as a parent. ⁓ But ⁓ yeah, I think I kind of told myself.

I can't do both of these, so if I need to make a choice, ⁓ and financially, that's a big part of it, I was able to move out of that and really have more flexibility at home, right? Doing this, being able to be at home with my kids more, go on vacation when I want, ⁓ and kind of be my own boss. So otherwise, yeah, I would have stayed in it for sure. I think it's really kind of a hidden gem for dieticians ⁓ because in the food service world,

You know, a lot of times it ends up being evenings and weekends, holidays and stuff like that, which is like not really feasible for families, like parents, right? But in service, it's not really weekends and evenings, summers, kind of. But ⁓ so it was really such a great opportunity to make an impact as an expert in nutrition, ⁓ which we need more of those in school nutrition. ⁓ So, yeah, I loved it.

Sarah Schlichter (04:54)
Yeah, ⁓ that's super cool. Okay, so tell us as a mom and a dietitian with vast experience in the school food service, what are some of the common challenges that you see parents facing when it comes to providing nutritious meals, nutritious lunches for their children?

Alex Turnbull (05:15)
So at home, right? Like whether it's packing lunches or meals.

Sarah Schlichter (05:18)
Yeah, at home, exactly packing lunches for school or just making food at home.

Alex Turnbull (05:25)
Well, think number one is time. think we're all very busy. So it's like, yeah, we'd love to make these scratch made meals or homemade meals, you know, but like you and I both know, like we don't always have the time for that. That's that's not the reality. So like picking and choosing. That's one thing we have ⁓ that is kind of up against us. But also, I think it's balancing the expectations we have ⁓ for nutrition for our kids and their preferences.

we, so sometimes there's that. Like we really want fruits and veggies and all options. But, at the e can't force kids to eat. S when we don't see our kid know are so good for them to eat. Uh, so when we we lose control over some t

And kids don't have a lot control over things. So it's this fight for control. I think at the table sometimes it ends up being.

Sarah Schlichter (06:28)
I hear that from so many parents, know, even getting them to stay at the table, getting them to try the new foods. we, many of us, I don't want to blanket statement this, but many of us grew up in a different time when maybe we did have to sit at the table, finish our plates. There was a little bit more pressure and we're trying to do things a little bit differently. So how do you think that plays in? Do you think as parents we're putting too much pressure on kids, on ourselves?

Alex Turnbull (06:57)
absolutely. think ⁓ as I get older, I'm learning I have to let go control thing. You know, what do I have control over? And as you know, and maybe some people are familiar with the division of responsibility from Ellen Satter, right? You know, as parents, we have control over the what, where and when food is provided. And the kids have the ⁓ control over if and how much they eat. And that is really difficult for for parents, I think.

Even myself included, maybe you can like try not, you know, they leave their plate really untouched and you like one want them to eat more. But like, obviously, there's some there's some nuance in there, right? It's not just a matter of like, ⁓ OK, you're done like free for all, you know, kind of thing. There's different ways that we can help our kids engage with foods. But it's it's just we we I think as parents are also relearning how to eat and also. ⁓

healing our relationship with food and we get this opportunity, this wonderful opportunity to kind of redo that with our kids in a way and not that we're gonna be perfect, we're not, absolutely not. ⁓ But we can see personally and you and I professionally the damage it can do to our relationship with food when we are pressuring or forcing or, you

creating that negativity at meal times, what it can do to our relationship with food long-term.

Sarah Schlichter (08:23)
Mm-hmm, exactly, exactly. And I've had this conversation with a few people. It's like you want to think about the short term and maybe in the short term it's like, yes, they ate their broccoli tonight. Maybe you provided more pressure than you wanted, but and they ate it. But in the long term, maybe it was this pressure that's building up. Why is mom forcing me to eat this? I'm full. I don't actually like this food. And it's kind of, you know, they're contradictory almost where

You want to think about, obviously we want our kids to eat. We want them to be nutritious and be quote unquote healthy, but at what expense, right? We want to also teach that long-term relationship with.

Alex Turnbull (09:02)
And every kid is different, you know, and even within families and every family is different and how you're going to do that. what I tend to want to provide is, OK, take a step back and what are the intentions behind what you're doing? Is it because, know, I want to force them to eat this because they need to clean their plate or I want to restrict certain foods because they're bad for us, horrible, have all this?

toxic, whatever. Like what are the intentions behind what we're doing at the meal time? So maybe there is a little bit of pressure. kind of, I've gone from no pressure, like when I, my kids are really little to like the more of a realistic, like low pressure kind of aspect. Like, no, I'm not going to micromanage every bite, but yeah, I might ask my daughter like, hey, is there something else on your plate you'd like to eat some more of? You know?

My daughter also has ADHD and has a very low appetite. So you have to adjust to your kids and you know your kids best. What do they say? I heard a really great ⁓ quote that parents are the expert of their kids, but they may not be the expert of a certain topic. So if someone's preaching, know, don't force your kids to eat. Well, at the end of the day, you are the expert of your child and make the decision as the parents. So, right.

Sarah Schlichter (10:22)
And like you said, it's so nuanced. There's so many things to consider and all of that. So I kind of want to hone in on school lunch since you're our expert. So I'm sure things have changed maybe even since you've been working there. But first, let's start with I've gone to eat lunch with my daughter a couple of times this year. So I'm getting the lay of the land of what elementary lunches are like now. But when you were working there, I mean,

What did you see kids bringing? mean, what start there? Like bringing from home, pros, cons. Do you feel like parents were making balanced lunches? And then after that, we can transition to kind of the provided school lunches.

Alex Turnbull (11:06)
That's a really great question. I think something parents, what I see being a parent and having ⁓ experience in school food service is that our expectations of what should be served in school food service are not realistic in regards to what we're serving at home. And that is on both ends of the spectrum for parents, whether we're serving maybe

not as healthy of options as school lunch, or we have these really high expectations of what we're serving at home with just all whole foods, Like scratch made. I keep talking about managing your expectations. ⁓ And so they're gonna look very different. And families choose lunch from home ⁓ or lunch at school for a variety of reasons.

⁓ We have free meals for breakfast and lunch for all students in public schools that participate in the meal program here in Minnesota, which is amazing.

Sarah Schlichter (12:07)
And so that is a state by state.

Alex Turnbull (12:09)
That's

a state by state. Yes, because of what didn't go universally. So it's state by state. There are I don't know how many, but there are many states that do have that in place. And so which is great. One less thing for parents to worry about whether they can afford it financially or not. ⁓ For my daughter, we kind of pick and choose based on what she likes, because we have to remember schools have to build a menu off of thousands of kids preferences, not just your one family's preference.

right, and what they like. what, because at the end of the day, is participation is important. So you have to keep that in mind. So that's really important. But you know, so I've spent many of hours in the school cafeteria. So I'm very observant when it comes to what kids are bringing from home. And, you know, it tends to be, for the most part, a lot of packaged stuff. And

And some kids I would see would bring hot stuff and like a thermos, ⁓ but mostly it's what is, you what can be served cold or, you know, go in a lunchbox and that, in that aspect. I've seen lots of Lunchables, lots of Lunchables, especially when you go on like a field trip. I've been on my kids' field trips. I don't know if you have or not, but lots of Lunchables, right? Lots of packaging and which there's nothing wrong with that. Every once in I've bought my daughter a Lunchable because she wanted one and, ⁓ but, you know, so it,

Research does say that school meals are the healthiest meals that Americans are eating, like kids in general, just because they do have to follow such strict and robust nutrition guidelines, regardless of people's feelings on them. There is absolutely no way, and I say this with quite a bit of confidence, that families, even if they're packing healthy options, they are not meeting those requirements because

they, it depends on the age group, but there's a certain amount of protein ounces you have to serve every day. There's a certain amount of grains you have to serve. They have to be whole grain rich, ⁓ at least a certain percentage of them. They have, we have to have a certain amount of fruits and vegetables. And then there's also milk involved in dairy. ⁓ there's just in the quantity at which my daughter, that would be too much food. I, so I tend to, you know, pack her a lighter lunch, but so

It's gonna range, but in general, school food service does have healthier options than what people are sending. They just might not look the same though, also, but they're not really on the same playing field. So, some people might not agree that that is fair, but it also is so much more room to grow. I 100 % believe that there are some things that could be.

⁓ improved. and there are some things in the works. like for instance when i was there, were not really, there really wasn't much ⁓ regulation on added sugars when it came to the breakfast and lunch menu. now there were some restrictions on added sugar when it came to what we call smart snacks. so if you're selling anything a la carte, ⁓ whether it's fruit snacks, granola bar, chips, those kinds of things which schools have the ability to do.

But now in 2025, this summer, I believe there are gonna be some limitations on the flavored milk, has to be a certain amount of added sugar, as well as in breakfast as well. And some of the, what we call grain based desserts, like the pastries and stuff like that, that can be sold in schools on the menu. So there are some more limitations that are being implemented that have been in the works since before this administration. So yeah.

Sarah Schlichter (15:48)
And you gotta think, mean, stuff like that will take a long time if they have to reformulate it at a large scale, right?

Alex Turnbull (15:55)
Mm-hmm. And I think, you know, we talk about the food industry, you know, having a big impact on, you know, what we're eating and absolutely, you know, we have set these regulations and the food industry manufacturers kind of mold certain products to fit those guidelines, you know. So we need to make sure that we are being mindful of what kind of

regulations we're setting so that we're setting those manufacturers up for success to create healthier products, not just masking certain products as being healthier by changing certain things too. So something to keep in mind. But also one thing that parents may not realize is that things that are available to K-12, so school food service, are not always available to the consumer.

So cereal, for instance, a lot of times the cereal sold in schools is going to be a 25 % reduced sugar, which would love to see in the store. But when I believe they've tried that, you know, it's not really what the consumer wants. So, you know, the sales might go down or something like that. And I've done, I did extensive research on chocolate milk specifically. I went into the grocery store and I looked at all the chocolate milks that we had available, the added sugar. And it was

so much more than what school food service had access to. So we can't just assume what our kids are getting at school are the same things that we can get ⁓ at the store. They're formulated to meet those nutritional guidelines.

Sarah Schlichter (17:27)
Right. And that's such a good point. And I think you're right. Many parents aren't thinking about that. And you did mention, you know, they are, there are stringent guidelines. They have to have like a certain amount of protein, fruits, vegetables. Can you talk a little bit more about that? So all of this has to be offered each meal. Is that correct?

Alex Turnbull (17:45)
Yes, so when you're building a menu, which is what I did, you have to meet the minimum guidelines. You can always offer more or add on additional ⁓ guidelines. Like some schools, don't have any, know, they haven't had artificial colors or artificial ⁓ certain ingredients ⁓ available for a long time. Like, so schools can set those additional guidelines if they want. It makes it more challenging. But ⁓ so yeah, you have, it depends on the...

age. So as they get older, obviously they get access to more foods. But like for elementary, I believe it's three fourths cup vegetable. I don't know about your kids, but my kids are not eating three fourths cup vegetable most most days, like at one meal. Right. Unless it's something they really love. And then a half a cup fruit. So and and I think there's just not a lot of knowledge around how the program actually works for in regards to what parents are seeing.

And so it's not that kids have to take all of that. Now it depends on how the school, we could talk about this for hours, but how the school functions. can do, have you ever heard of offer versus serve? Does that ring a bell?

Sarah Schlichter (18:56)
Yeah, actually, maybe the dietetic internship part or yeah.

Alex Turnbull (19:00)
Yep.

Yeah. So I prefer o when it comes to um runni programs. However, it's n just because of the effici kids through the line. to offer the minimum requi sizes and kids get to choo plate, which you know, we comes to feeding at home piece of it. However, kid

amount of foods on their when it comes to lunch, they components is the languag school food service, which three food groups and one be a half cup fruit or ve to be on their plate. You on their plate, you know, sometimes I kind of it's not on their play and w that be a choice, then you

Yes, some is going in the trash, which is disheartening, ⁓ but we do have to encourage. And that's where schools have to get a little creative in what they're serving and how they're serving it. know, sliced fruit versus whole fruit, those kinds of things to help kids eat more of it. But we can't control, you know, what they eat once they take it either.

Sarah Schlichter (20:20)
Yeah, and I do think it's important to have regulations and obviously, yes, we want to offer these foods. But to your point, how much is going in? It seems really hard to balance like, yes, we want to offer and expose them. But is it just going to be thrown away? How much is food waste? mean, yeah, it just sounds so hard.

Alex Turnbull (20:39)
I know it's really a complex thing and school food service like they're in that because they love feeding kids. So, ⁓ you know, they're really trying to do what they can with what they have, what resources they have and the time they have. Can you imagine feeding thousands of kids in like an hour or two? Can you imagine doing like that volume of food and getting kids through the line? Like it's hard enough feeding our own family, right?

So what they do is truly amazing, I think.

Sarah Schlichter (21:11)
Yeah. Now talk to us. I mean, you mentioned some states have universal funding, which sounds great, but it sounds like right now the school's food service industry is changing. Maybe funding is being taken away. ⁓ Can you explain that to us in an easy to understand way? What is going on?

Alex Turnbull (21:30)
It's not a possibility. So there's still a lot like possible like the word possibly right being taken away. However, like I believe it was a few weeks ago. They did officially cut I believe for school food service because food banks were in this too. But school food service they cut six hundred and sixty million dollars federally for the USDA did.

to that was to go towards local produce, local foods for schools. So each state, think like Minnesota had like, where I'm from, like 17 or 18 million of that, you so there each state had a certain amount. So this was technically part of like a program that was implemented during COVID to try to make things more easier and more accessible and was supposed to go throughout, you know, I forget when it would be to end, but that was kind of like cut off. So which

You know, sure, it wasn't meant to be a long term thing. And, you know, we're kind of out of that pandemic. You know, the aspect of that. At the same time, I really struggled with that because it's like it just felt really backwards to me, regardless of of the ins and outs and details of the program. But, you know, we have these higher expectations of what we're feeding kids in school food service. Yet it just feels like we're taking away opportunities for that.

⁓ so yeah, there was that there is some, there also is some talk in the works of, getting rid of about 12 million, believe it was 12 billion. I'm sorry, million billion in funding over like a decade within the program, whether that's, ⁓ you know, all, all the ins and outs of what that includes is, you know, there's a lot to that, but, ⁓ you know,

Some of it is also making more restrictions on schools for qualifying for ⁓ whether it's the CEP program, so the community eligibility provision, which allows schools at a certain level of free and reduced population. So that's based on income. ⁓ Right now it's at a certain threshold, but they want to lower that, which would essentially

kind of take away that bl which I think it ends up 12 million students. So t of applying, you know, ev know, could they, some of sure, you know, but at the still, it's just one less like families have to wor

making them harder to get into like the free and reduced program or allowing free meals for families. But there's not really any talk about ⁓ increasing funding for reimbursement for schools with meals. ⁓ So, you know, it's just interesting when you look at that. ⁓ I don't know like your perspective of what you've seen or anything like that, but it just seems like it doesn't match.

I am seeing it, having experience in school food service and being a parent.

Sarah Schlichter (24:47)
So it sounds like, I mean, there's a lot of possibility of taking things away. ⁓ Taking, you know, maybe lowering that qualifying threshold so parents have to reapply or kids that are getting complimentary covered school lunches now may not necessarily be in that same bracket anymore. More stress for parents. ⁓ Taking away, I think you said access to fresh fruits or

You know, is that like, Skrull Gardens?

Alex Turnbull (25:17)
Yeah, so it's not necessarily taking away, like we're not talking about taking away meals for kids, right? It's not about that, but it's about like the resources that the programs have to access those foods, whether it's financially. So those $660 million was to go towards purchasing fresh local produce, which can be really expensive, even though it's local. It can be more expensive when it's local. It sounds backwards, but

So that additional funding can be so helpful because you're already working on very shoestring budget. ⁓ I talked about how most families, you you're not going to see a meal that meets the nutrition requirements. OK, you're also never going to meet the financial restrictions that schools have to to meet, like with five food groups and the amount of money they have to they have allotted per meal. And then there's, you know, there's ⁓

you know, staffing, there's utilities, there's ⁓ also, you know, paper products, all those kinds of things that go into all of this cost of meals, you know, that we don't think about. So, but yes, what we're doing essentially is we're making it more difficult to ⁓ be able to get free meals or free and reduced meals for students. And so you're you're making it more difficult. And yes, you know, you're

everyone's always worried about, know, are we, you know, we need to make sure that people aren't abusing it. But when you make it more difficult, you make it more difficult for those that really actually need it. And that's kind of the hard part about it. ⁓ When we create, I remember when I was during COVID, was doing the ⁓ curbside meals and everything. And I remember being on a phone call with the Minnesota Department of Education about all of this and

the head at the time she had said, if we create policy around those that are going to abuse it, we make it difficult for those that actually need it. again, know, politics gets a little tricky sometimes, but we're talking about feeding kids here.

Sarah Schlichter (27:28)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, it almost seems like it should just be a right like the universal free lunch. I mean, not?

Alex Turnbull (27:36)
I mean, I'm a little biased in nutrition feeding kids, you know, I don't think that we should adults and kids, you know what they choose to do. I just don't think that, you know, we can't penalize kids, especially when, you know, it's one of their most healthy or their only options for the day. ⁓

Sarah Schlichter (27:56)
That's a really interesting statistic by the way when you talk about that that lunch that meal provided at school might be the most balanced meal they're going to receive.

Alex Turnbull (28:06)
So absolutely, maybe not for every family, but for most families. And that's, you know, what's really important. you know, then there's the other side of things that I think also I struggle with is we have these are our expectations of what should be on menus keeps climbing higher and higher, right? Like you see a lot in the news about certain states banning ultra processed foods, which is a whole other conversation we could get into or banning artificial colors and all these things, which

Yes, we want to see more whole foods. That would be wonderful. Wouldn't it, Sarah? Like just like, yay, that's great. I think we all want that. But at the same time, we're kind of asking schools to do more with less is how I see it. So if we want those things, we need to increase funding. We need to increase wages for staff so we can have more skilled staff to actually retain them. We need more.

administration within the programs to do marketing and tastings and nutrition education. Like we need we need longer lunch times and longer breakfast times, you know, so there's so much to consider and what needs to be elevated in order for us to get to those expectations. I think I think we all want that. But like what again, managing our expectations, you know, it's like you talk about it forever.

Yeah, it doesn't match. It's really what it comes down to, to me.

Sarah Schlichter (29:37)
Right. And it does, it sounds like it's a very complicated issue. You know, people might hear the summary or the cliff notes and think, well, we should just do this. But as you know, being in the food service industry, it is much more complicated. So I guess where does that leave us now? What should we be doing? there ways we can help increase funding? you mentioned you're on the wellness initiative and you're

school district, I mean, what can we be doing as parents?

Alex Turnbull (30:09)
You

I wish it was a matter of like families that could like writing out a check to give more like I've literally had parents be like, well, can we just like fundraise for no, it doesn't work like that when government funded programs. So unfortunately, ⁓ so obviously, you know, what I choose to do is a look at what do I have control over? Like, obviously, you know, what we're voting for, whether it's locally or nationally, you know, does make a difference. Where do they align with that? ⁓

but maybe school food serv isn't like why you're vo you're voting for. So th we are where we are right me, where can I get involv an impact? So remember wh schools have to meet these but schools can go above requirements too. So uh, in wellness committees. And

blasting out a Facebook post on the community Facebook post, you know, while complaining about the school meal program or something like I've had people message me and ask me, well, this is on my menu. This is on my menu. What do I, you know, why is this on the menu? Talk to your school food service director, but don't come at it from a defensive standpoint where it's like school food service. They're doing so many great things, but they obviously they

more often than not are being slammed with like negativity. So if we can come at it from like an empathetic, ⁓ you know, just point of view where it's like you are interested in learning more and where we can meet in the middle. I think that that can provide so much more opportunity than like starting petitions and all these things. Like more often than not, people aren't actually asking questions and looking into it and learning about it. They just want to see the change they want to see. So.

Getting involved in your school wellness committee. Every school has one that public school that is on the school meal program and parents are allowed to sit on that. I'm on it and get to know your school food service director. Ask questions, go to your kids lunch, learn about school food service. You know those kinds of things to see where they need help and how we can educate on that. So in terms of funding, it's it's pretty difficult though to to make.

a budget that that's something that's federally needs to be decided and is is a big big rock to move so.

Sarah Schlichter (32:39)
Right, from an individual level it's hard to make the systemic change that we need, which totally makes sense.

Alex Turnbull (32:46)
And of course, know, the school nutrition association, they are big advocates, obviously for school or child nutrition programs, but they can also they have ⁓ resources for, you know, writing to your senators, your local, you know, all that kind of stuff that you can sign ⁓ and send super easy takes a few minutes. So there's certainly that too. You know, sometimes you feel like, what is this doing? But, you know, any little thing you can do to can, you know, it it does help overall.

Sarah Schlichter (33:15)
Mm-hmm, and I think you know kind of as you and I believe you know Whole foods fresh fruits and vegetables sounds great, but when you sounds great, but canned fruits and vegetables are just as great

Alex Turnbull (33:28)
Absolutely.

And in school food service, like so this is how I would see it. OK, canned canned fruits and canned fruits are great for school food service and they're easy for kids to eat, right? They're soft and kids generally like them. So maybe it's like, OK, let's look at the canned fruits our school is getting. Is it in, you know, syrup or is it in water or 100 % juice? So maybe we can make those small changes, you know.

Perception wise to parents in the community, that might not seem like a big deal, but that is ultimately. So where can we make these small changes? You know, are we doing canned vegetables? Most schools I would say are doing frozen, which we know is so valuable, especially when we're having mass production of things. ⁓ Fresh is great, but frozen has so much value. So making those little small changes can be really helpful in a program. And they're realistic and easier to implement.

Sarah Schlichter (34:26)
Mm-hmm. So I guess back to the individual level what parents can do if they are packing lunches for their students Talk to us about maybe some of the swaps they can make or some simple I hate to call it rules because obviously we're not rigid here But you know some principles that can help when they're packing their third

kids school lunches now that we have bento boxes and things that make it easy to kind of pack a variety of things. What should we be putting in our lunch boxes?

Alex Turnbull (34:57)
You know, I think packing your kids lunch is different than you being able to plate the lunch and eat with them. So I think more on what is my child going to eat and I focus less on like trying new foods and exposure. So it's more like what are they going to eat? And, you know, having balance, I always say at least three food groups is great. One being a fruit or vegetable, which is similar to what, you know, school food service wants you to take too.

You know, to pack everything. I think packing things that they enjoy too, like, you know, the fun stuff too. I just packed my daughter some chips with her, her sandwich and her, she, this morning we did leafy greens with a garlic vinaigrette, which she loves. I'm like, heck yes. And some cucumbers with ranch, a salad, like a ham and cheese sandwich, or a ham and cheese sandwich. And then I packed her some chips too. Like it's okay to pack those things. School food service doesn't get to do that all the time, but.

⁓ So it's those things. But one thing that I think is extremely valuable is when your kids come home, you don't just say, how was your lunch? I even find myself doing that. You ask more questions like, what was your favorite part about your lunch? What was your least favorite part about your lunch? What would you change next time? What would you add next time so that you can learn more about like, okay, what are they actually eating?

But then you can also just more inquire about like the socialization aspect of it. Like what were your friends eating or what was something funny at lunch today? So maybe you realize, ⁓ something big happened at lunch. That's why they didn't eat a lot versus getting mad because their whole lunchbox is full. I mean, I've been there with that. So, you know, it's kind of tuning into what works for your kids and what works for you and, you know, what truly they're going to eat so that they have the nutrition.

to fuel their bodies.

Sarah Schlichter (36:50)
Yeah, my daughter, she's in first grade, came home yesterday and like one of the first things she said to me, which actually makes me a little sad, Mom, I didn't have time to eat my sandwich today at lunch. Like, like she knew I was gonna ask why didn't you eat your sandwich? So even as a parent, like I have to remind myself there's other parts about

Alex Turnbull (37:10)
a lot of time. That's why I kind of view it as like a mini meal more. Some kids eat more than others do. Like, so my daughter, we pack her a snack every day, but a lot of times it's been coming home, especially like the fruit that I pack and I'm like, I hate to throw this away. So I kind of asked her what, you know, they're doing. Well, they also play outside while they have snack. So of she wants to play. And I said, well, what if we took a few minutes to just eat a little bit?

and then you can go play and then come back. So it's kind of like helping them work through some solutions on what to do, right? Because they have to be the ones to learn that, you know, we can't just do it for them.

Sarah Schlichter (37:50)
Right,

right, and I like the idea of putting it in there. You know, how do you think we could fit the snack in? What ideas do you have? Or what would you like in your lunchbox? that you mentioned.

Alex Turnbull (38:02)
Yeah, telling that is so helpful at the table to, you know, at home. So, yeah.

Sarah Schlichter (38:09)
Yeah, well I think that's really helpful for parents when we're talking about school lunches first, let's be empathetic and focus on what we can control. Get involved if you do have that wellness initiative. I'm actually going to look into that. I truly wasn't even aware that existed.

Alex Turnbull (38:26)
People aren't. mean, I only am because I was on it in my career. So, yeah.

Sarah Schlichter (38:32)
Yeah, so we'll look into that. And then when you are packing your kids lunch, again, I am so with you on we're all about exposing our kids to new foods, but maybe not at lunchtime if they've never had that food before, know, save that for when you're at a meal together and you can make a game out of it or be curious about it. Ape for the three food groups, like you said, ⁓ fruit and or vegetable. Obviously, I'm thinking of protein and some carbohydrates for energy.

Alex Turnbull (38:58)
Absolutely.

Sarah Schlichter (39:00)
And if they like to help you pack it, great.

Alex Turnbull (39:02)
that's big too. I did let my daughter just pack her lunch one day and it was pretty disastrous. you do. mean, that's a good learning opportunity, but it was, yeah, it turn out well. But hey, it's a fun moment to look back on.

Sarah Schlichter (39:17)
Yeah, honestly, we're learning through all of this too. And I think as you've kind of mentioned throughout this episode, try not to put too much pressure on yourself or them in this process. just want them.

Alex Turnbull (39:29)
our expectations in life.

Sarah Schlichter (39:32)
Yes, that is gold. actually has so much more weight than you would think it does.

All right, I'm looking at our time. ⁓ Anything else you want to talk about or mention before I kind of wrap it up?

Alex Turnbull (39:47)
I so. think we covered so much. I mean, I can talk about this for hours.

Sarah Schlichter (39:52)
I know.

I think we're going to have to do like the processed, ultra processed food dyes another time.

Alex Turnbull (39:57)
No,

So I think that, yeah, we'll have to touch on that again. But hopefully it provided some just perspective on, you know, school food service.

Sarah Schlichter (40:08)
Yeah, for sure. So I'll just wrap it up kind of like, you know, letting you tell people how they can follow and just giving you a shout out. All right, Alex, well, all of that was so helpful. It sounds like we're just kind of skimming the surface here. But for all of us that don't have the privy to food service knowledge like you do, I feel like that was that was really empowering and a little bit helpful. We we do want to stay abreast of the trends and know what's going on. So thank you for that.

Alex Turnbull (40:36)
just want to say it's okay want healthier options for our kids and to want change and to question things. But how we go about doing that and you know, that is the important piece of things, know, not being impulsive, making sure we're thinking about it in a big picture, being curious, asking questions. So that that is I think the key.

Sarah Schlichter (40:59)
Yeah, and I think you do such a great job of relaying all of this information. I'll let you share how people can follow you. But Alex really does break things down and try to take the stress away, whether it's tips for feeding your kids or ways to make just the family meal more enjoyable. So please tell the listeners how they can reach out, how they can work with you, how they can find you if they have more questions.

Alex Turnbull (41:27)
think the main thing is I hang out on Instagram at the Family Nutritionist and that's where all my content is. ⁓ I have free resources for meals and inspiration for that. I also have ⁓ a five week try it challenge too for picky eaters and just giving a different perspective about how we can approach our kids trying new foods too. So yep, you can find me on Instagram.

Sarah Schlichter (41:54)
Awesome. Well, thank you for your time, Alex, and thanks again for the breakdown.

Alex Turnbull (41:58)
Yeah, so glad to be here. Thanks for having me, Sarah.

Sarah Schlichter (42:01)
Take care.