32: Postpartum Nutrition and Breastfeeding with Allegra Gast, RD, IBCLC

In today's episode, Sarah talks with Allegra Gast, a registered dietitian and IBCLC. Allegra shares evidence-based tips to fuel new moms and optimize milk supply, as well as strategies for postpartum recovery, nutrition, and breastfeeding success.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• The importance of nutritional recovery during postpartum, not just bouncing back
• How pregnancy and breastfeeding increase caloric and nutrient needs
• Practical tips for preparing freezer meals and simplifying postpartum meal planning
• The role of minerals like magnesium, sodium, potassium, and iron in postpartum healing
• The impact of stress and stress management on milk supply
• Debunking myths about lactation cookies and supplements
• How to personalize nutrition and the value of working with an IBCLC
• Strategies for balancing self-care with a busy postpartum life
• The significance of listening to hunger cues and honoring your body's needs

Resources Mentioned: 

- FullWell Prenatal

- Needed Prenatal

- Allegra's Website

- Allegra's social media

Transcript

Sarah Schlichter (00:47)
Welcome back to the podcast, everyone. I'm excited for today's guest who is going to be covering a topic that we haven't quite covered yet. And I'm excited to be talking more about lactation and postpartum nutrition. So whether you are in a season of life that warrants some extra nutrition or health postpartum, or you have a friend or you plan to be postpartum, eventually, hopefully this episode will answer a lot of your questions. So without further ado,

I'm gonna go ahead and let Allegra introduce herself.

Allegra Gast (01:19)
Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. So yeah, I'm Allegra. I'm a registered dietitian and IBCLC lactation consultant. I started my practice Aloha Nutrition when I lived in Hawaii. We are a military family and since then my husband has retired. So we're one year post-retirement, which feels good. I have four kids. I have a six-year-old, four-year-old and one and a half-year-old twins.

and I've breastfed all of them. I breastfed my first until she was about three and a half years old and tandem fed her with my second born. And then my second, I continued breastfeeding throughout my twin pregnancy and then a little bit after they delivered, which, you know, at that time I was feeding three babies, three kids. So that was a lot on my body, but you know, it was good. It's just kind of amazing to see what our bodies are capable of.

So yeah, that's kind of personally and then professionally, we help families all around the world with their breastfeeding and nutrition journeys. I have a team of other dietitians and lactation consultants and we love helping families meet their feeding goals and then just feel good postpartum because we go into the postpartum phase.

period, just feeling like got hit by a bus and we're constantly exhausted. And I really think we should feel good and enjoy the season with our young kids and be able to take them to the park and run around with them. And so really helping set up moms for this journey is something we love to do.

Sarah Schlichter (02:45)
Wow, wow, everything you just said is so, so impressive. And I think what you just touched on is a great place to start. So postpartum, know, a lot of us, we prepare for birth, but we're not necessarily preparing for postpartum or feeding ourselves, right? We're thinking about the baby and the baby only. So being in the line of work that you're in, is there anything you wish or you would recommend women would prep ahead for postpartum, whether it's nutritionally, emotionally, physically?

Allegra Gast (03:14)
Yeah, I think there's a lot of emphasis on prenatal nutrition, which obviously is very important. You're growing a baby, but you're still growing a baby postpartum, so they're just outside of your body. Breastfeeding does require a lot on our body, and I wish mothers knew that the postpartum period is really a time of nutritional recovery. It's not a time to bounce back.

you know, birth and just growing a baby is really like an athletic event and you can't just not eat to recover from that athletic event. Like you really need to focus on nourishment and nutrient dense foods. you're healing, you're producing milk, you're adjusting hormonally, you're not sleeping much, you've got all these demands of just, you know, motherhood. And so focusing on food as fuel and focusing on nutrient dense foods.

can really help replenish your lost nutrients from pregnancy and then continue with your recovery in the postpartum period. And then, know, emotionally, I wish moms knew that.

You know, it's not about perfection. feel like we kind of see postpartum as like this all or nothing. And so really focusing on rest and asking for help. think that's the biggest thing that I've learned personally. with my first, I was like, I can do this. I am super mom. I don't need help. And it fit me in the butt. You know, like I was always tired. I felt alone. and I was a dietitian and I knew about nutrition, but not

specific foods to focus on and not the demands that breastfeeding really is on the body. so, you know, pregnancy, we're told to increase our calories by 200 to 300, but breastfeeding, it's up to 500, even a thousand with twins. So it's definitely more demanding than pregnancy. And so just figuring out how can I eat breakfast? How can I eat a little bit more with this baby? And so.

Yeah, I know from my first born to twins, like my nutrition has been night and day difference. And I feel so much better. Like my twin pregnancy was the best pregnancy and my postpartum recovery was by far the best compared to my first where I wasn't really focusing on nutrient dense foods. I mean, I was eating cereal with almond milk for breakfast. Like that's not enough. That's not enough to recover. So yeah, I wish moms just knew the importance of

Sarah Schlichter (05:29)
Mm.

Allegra Gast (05:33)
focusing on recovery and nutrient dense foods and filling our cups first. How we look at postpartum and motherhood really starts with us. And when we're fueled, when we feel good, we have a better outlook on our postpartum journey, if that makes sense.

Sarah Schlichter (05:52)
yeah, I totally believe it. And you you said you've learned through experience. So your most recent postpartum experience was with twins. And if you can, you said that was your best postpartum experience. And if you can do it with twins, gives all of us moms who have had singleton pregnancies and babies more faith. So what did you do differently to feel so good after having twins?

Allegra Gast (06:12)
Yeah.

Yeah. So emotionally, it was definitely a lot harder just because you have two babies that have no head control. You're trying to figure out how to hold them. So, you know, it was a lot more demanding, but I feel like I did a really good job on focusing on my nutrition and I knew it was going to be a lot harder. during my pregnancy,

Like the third trimester, I started making freezer meals. I made a lot of like breakfast, quick breakfast things like egg bites that I could freeze or breakfast casseroles with some potatoes and some meat and just healthy fats as well. So really focusing on complex carbohydrates like whole grains, potatoes, and then...

focus on protein because protein keeps our blood sugar steady. So instead of just one egg, two, three, maybe four eggs with some potatoes like hash browns or home fries. so prioritizing breakfast was huge. Just starting the day, kind of front loading my fuel with breakfast, especially since I was waking up a lot more frequently with twins.

I just made it a non-negotiable and then I stayed on top of my prenatal vitamins. took additional magnesium. I really focused on like broths and soups and stews, cooked vegetables, especially those early weeks just because it's easier on your digestive tract. Postpartum just because all your organs shift everywhere. So you really want foods that are easier on your digestive tract and easier for absorption. So really just focusing on like protein, fiber and healthy fat.

and then just eating enough, making sure I was fueling enough. And, I love being nap-trapped, but, before being nap-trapped, I was like, okay, do I have some snacks around me? You know, I might be nap-trapped for an hour, two hours. And thankfully my husband had three months of paternity leave, so he helped take care of the older two. But, you know, beef jerky.

Hard-boiled eggs, granola bars, even a PB &J. I would make a PB &J just really trying to fuel myself, I think was the biggest difference from my twins to my first baby. Just preparing those meals, really focusing on minerals specifically.

Sarah Schlichter (08:24)
I can imagine. So did you make a lot of stuff during pregnancy? Did you kind of make those postpartum meals ahead of time?

Allegra Gast (08:31)
Yep. So I don't like spending five hours on a Sunday afternoon meal prepping like crazy. So what I did was just every time I made dinner, I would just quadruple batch it. you know, soups, chilies, sauces, like those are really easy to make in bulk. So, you know, if I was making spaghetti for dinner, I would just triple quadruple the sauce, and then I would freeze that and then

Sarah Schlichter (08:37)
me either.

Allegra Gast (08:57)
If I was making like shepherd's pie or enchiladas or anything like that, I would double, triple, quadruple portion that and freeze it. So we ended up buying a deep freezer and that was the best investment ever. And there are actually some cheap ones online. You can also buy them secondhand on Facebook marketplace. So I would definitely encourage investing in a deep freezer and just making a bunch of your meals. So doubling, tripling all of your meals. And if anyone's been pregnant,

with twins, you know how out of breath you are in that third trimester. So I actually brought a chair to the kitchen and every time I had a break, I would just sit down, catch my breath and then stand up, stir the pot, maybe cut some vegetables and then sit down. So having twins is physically really hard just on your body. So just taking a little more breaks, but I just made it a non-negotiable. I knew that we were going to have a meal train, but that only lasts like one to two weeks.

Sarah Schlichter (09:45)
Yeah.

Allegra Gast (09:54)
So I knew that I wanted meals that were quick, ready to go. And so I made enough meals to last us about a month and a half, maybe two months. And I will forever thank myself for doing that. It was like the best thing. And the biggest thing I can encourage any pregnant mom to do is make those freezer meals. Even if you know you're gonna have help, you know you're gonna have ⁓ a meal train, like still make some meals because they last about two to three months in the freezer.

And so, you know, it can be really great to just grab some of those things.

Sarah Schlichter (10:25)
Yeah, and I love your point about just tripling, quadrupling when you're cooking, because I think sometimes, and people do this with meal prep too, like it has to be all or nothing. You have to spend four or five hours on a Sunday, which I am the same as you. Like I never want to do that and I never will. So finding other ways to make it work. You're cooking dinner anyway, you're already there. All you need to do, it's not going to take more time. You just need more ingredients and then you'll be saving it for later. So I feel like that's a very practical tip.

For moms, whether you're in the start of your third trimester or starting to think about those freezer meals, kind of just triple up what you're making now. And that's really great. I love the chair tip. I was not pregnant with twins, but I still remember feeling out of breath and I worked out a lot. So I mean, it just happens. can't even imagine how out of breath you felt with twins, but having a chair nearby is a really practical and easy tip. So.

Allegra Gast (11:16)
you

Sarah Schlichter (11:18)
If you don't have the stamina or you think you don't have the stamina to kind of stand that long in the kitchen, that's great So you did mention you took magnesium. So I'm curious, was that more for the digestion help? Was that more for relaxation? Tell us about some of these minerals that we should focus on postpartum.

Allegra Gast (11:36)
Yeah,

so definitely magnesium. There's, hundreds of different bodily functions that require magnesium specifically. like blood sugar management is a big one, digestion. And so there are different forms of magnesium. So ones that are better for like constipation, which a lot of times can happen postpartum, is ⁓ magnesium citrate, magnesium oxide. So I focused on magnesium citrate in the mornings to just help soften my stools.

Thankfully, I did not tear with my twins. I did have an episiotomy with my second one. So I also really focused on magnesium for him instead of just doing stool softeners. And then definitely at night, I chose more magnesium ⁓ glycinate, which is helpful for rest and relaxation. And that really helped with my quality sleep. So we can't control how many hours of sleep we're getting with a baby. You know, it'd be so nice to have eight hours of sleep. ⁓

But if you're waking up every couple of hours, at least focus on your quality sleep for the sleep you are getting. So I took magnesium. And the RDA, the recommended dietary allowance, is about 350. So I did at least that. those early weeks, went up to, in early months, I went up to about 500 milligrams.

and I felt really good with that. ⁓ I also focused a lot on sodium and potassium. So no minerals work in isolation that you really want to have a good variety of other minerals. like sodium and potassium are also electrolytes and they help transport nutrients in and out of the cells. If anyone remembers biology class, the sodium potassium pump. So you can't just take high dose of magnesium. You also need those co-factors like sodium and potassium to help bring

magnesium where it needs to go. bone broth is a great source of sodium as well as phosphorus, which is another electrolyte, focusing on potatoes and bananas, acorn squash, that's a good source of potassium. And then I made everyday mineral mocktails. That's what I'm drinking right now as well. I talk a lot about it on my Instagram and mineral mocktails are just a beverage, you electrolytes.

to help with your brain fog, to help with your energy, to help with even bowel movements, even digestion. We need sodium and potassium and zinc to make stomach acid. So minerals, I like to say, are your body's factory workers. We have thousands of different bodily functions and we need these minerals to perform these functions. So that's really the biggest thing with recovery and just overall health.

⁓ So yeah, just focusing on magnesium is a big thing as well as the other electrolytes, sodium, potassium, phosphorus, chloride. And then iron, focusing on iron rich foods was really big as well just because you are losing blood. I don't usually recommend an iron supplement unless it's medically indicated, but really focusing on iron rich foods is important too. And then iodine and...

know, just a variety of minerals to focus on can really help with recovery.

Sarah Schlichter (14:37)
And in the women that you're working with, are you recommending supplements for these minerals? Are you trying to help guide them to include them in their regular daily meals?

Allegra Gast (14:47)
Yep, definitely through meals. I always say food first. But because the demands are so high with breastfeeding and even during pregnancy, I do recommend supplements to help fill in the gaps. Supplements are meant to supplement your diet. So it will depend on the person. I like to do a food log and figure out what are they eating and what are they not eating if they're not getting a lot of...

I don't know, potassium in their diet or for example, iodine. If they're not eating fish, if they have fish aversions, I might recommend a prenatal vitamin that has iodine in it or if they need to focus on choline rich foods and they don't really eat eggs or they're allergic to eggs.

I would recommend maybe a separate choline supplement. So really it's all individualized. I do encourage really everyone take a prenatal vitamin, quality one, just to help fill in the gaps. But specific nutrients might be dependent on the person.

Sarah Schlichter (15:47)
And if you're at Liberty to Say, are there any brands that you recommend for prenatal vitamins?

Allegra Gast (15:52)
Yeah, I personally love and use myself needed. So the brand needed, full well fertility, seeking health, those are some other ones. I am nurtured is another prenatal. So I know there's a lot out there and it can be kind of overwhelming, but I really like the brand needed. And so that's usually what I recommend and that's what I take myself.

Sarah Schlichter (16:07)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so my first pregnancy was in 2017 and I feel like back then there weren't as many options available. Like I think I just kind of did a general prenatal and you know, fast forward seven to eight years now, it's so different and needed is one that I've heard a lot about and I did try, I think like one of their powder forms in my third pregnancy, which I liked. And I know Fullwell was created by a dietician.

Allegra Gast (16:43)
Yeah.

Sarah Schlichter (16:44)
So that's always a good thing to trust. Isla, yes. So if you're in the market, you definitely want to make sure you're taking a prenatal that is research backed and of course a high quality. yeah, so I think that's helpful for people out there, especially knowing that you help people personalize the nutrition is very helpful. Okay, so how about

Allegra Gast (16:47)
Yeah, I love.

Sarah Schlichter (17:06)
handling postpartum when you have other kids. And I feel like this might be hard for moms whether they're waking up and having to do school drop-off, maybe they are nursing too. How are they fitting all of, how are they prioritizing themselves with all of these other factors of life? Do you have any practical tips or stories to share?

Allegra Gast (17:26)
Yeah. Yeah,

I mean, that was us. Once my husband went back to work. It's hard. And so I think, trying to do the best you can, I would really strongly recommend reaching out for help. Maybe, if you have a mom friend that is also dropping off their kids at that school, maybe asking them to swing by and pick up your kid. I know that's not always feasible for everyone.

But getting your baby ready and then giving yourself enough time to get everyone out the door I would make sure you're getting breakfast. So maybe you make overnight oats the night before Maybe you make a PB &J the morning of you know having something quick I would encourage setting everything up the night before all the backpacks the lunch boxes, kind of

getting all that ready the night before so that in the morning you just have to focus on getting shoes on, getting clothes and heading out the door. Obviously babies are unpredictable when they want to breastfeed. So there would be times when I've got my baby latched and I'm helping my toddler get his clothes on and the baby's at the breast. It's definitely harder with twins, but using pacifiers as a tool, I never used pacifiers with my first two.

But definitely with twins, you kind of need to soothe one baby while you're handling the other baby and then taking care of your other kids. So, you know, it's not really about perfection. I think just trying to figure out what works for you. especially making meals are hard. I think talking to your toddler.

about expectations, or even just telling them, like, hold on, mommy's gonna cut this really quick, or mommy has to open this bag and put it in the microwave or put it in the pot. I will help you. Or I think the hardest part we went through is I'm tandem feeding both babies and then my toddler needs to be wiped on the toilet. And he's like, mommy.

So, you in that case, I would put the babies down. They would start crying as I helped my toddler, wipe him, and then get him situated and then come back. I think at least with twins, there is gonna be some crying and there's really nothing around it. It's just gonna happen. And as long as they're in a safe place, you know, they're not hurt, some crying is gonna be expected. And so a big thing that helped us was just having some headphones to help.

dim some of the crying. So you could still hear it, but it's not like that high pitch shriek to where you're feeling overstimulated and overwhelmed. So you can still hear what's going on, but it kind of just helps a little bit with that crying. So we used that a lot. That helped us, but no, it's a challenging time. I mean, if you're in that season, I get it. Sorry.

Sarah Schlichter (19:38)
Hmm.

Yeah, well,

I mean what I'm hearing, right, there's no, there's no one golden answer. There's, there's really like no shortcuts. It is hard. And I think, again, I'm re-emphasizing what you're saying. Like preparation goes a long way making those overnight oats the night before. Or even if you're in that phase where you just want to buy some pre-made overnight oats, like the mush brand is great.

Allegra Gast (20:18)
Yeah.

Yes.

Sarah Schlichter (20:19)
Or I remember in some of those moments, if I didn't have time to eat a full breakfast, it would be like a non-negotiable, I'm getting a perfect bar for now. Like something that is enough calories, enough protein to hold me over until I can get home and have a minute to sit down. Because like personally, I'm comparing postpartum after one kid at the time. It feels very hard because you don't know any different. But then when you have multiple kids in your postpartum and then you have all of these other factors.

it's much more difficult and that preparation really does need to happen. So even if you're taking five minutes the night before to go over, okay, if we have to leave by 730, that means I probably have to start getting everyone ready at like seven, seven, 10 to start getting in the car and find the missing shoe and get the lunches ready and all of that. So yeah, I mean, I don't have the easy answer either. I think for some part you learn through experience what works best, but the preparation part is big.

Allegra Gast (21:13)
Yeah, and I think vocalizing to your spouse, your partner to help, maybe they help out the night before or, morning of before they go to work or, trying to do as much as they can. So like my husband, he started work when my daughter would go to school. So he would drop her at school on his way to work. And then I just had my one toddler who was going to preschool.

And we actually pulled him out a month before he even finished because it was just too much and I just couldn't do it. And even just those three days a week, it was just easier to keep him home with me. So if that has to happen, you might just need to. I love your idea of buying like pre-made things too, pre-made overnight oats and. ⁓

Sarah Schlichter (21:50)
Yeah, the babies napping and getting everyone in the car, right? It's stressful.

Allegra Gast (22:02)
You you don't have to have a huge breakfast right in the morning either. Like, of course that would be ideal, but having something quick just to get you out the door. And then when you come home, sit down and have a bigger breakfast.

Sarah Schlichter (22:15)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I really love your point earlier about the mocktail drinks because I was pretty religious with like my mineral. What did you call them again? Yeah, just the mineral mocktails. Like I was pretty consistent in pregnancy. I would do coconut water for that potassium or orange juice and like add the Redmond sea salt and maybe some other pomegranate juice or some other flavor. But I feel like postpartum I pretty much fell off that and

Allegra Gast (22:23)
Mineral mocktails, that's what I call it.

Yeah, no, I keep

doing it.

Sarah Schlichter (22:43)
Yeah,

reminding yourself that you still need that you need that hydration, of course, for the breastfeeding, but also just making sure you're getting the micronutrients that you need.

Allegra Gast (22:55)
Yeah, and it's funny because now I'm a year and half postpartum and I notice I'm not focusing as much on it either and I'm like, no, I need to keep focusing on it because being a parent is like a sports event. You still got to fuel yourself. You still got to maintain hydration. You you're chasing toddlers around now and so it's sometimes hard to.

Remember to still focus on yourself, even if you're not pregnant or you're not breastfeeding as much. Like right now I'm just nursing them twice a day, morning and night. So I don't feel like, I need to focus this much on my nutrition, but I still do. You know, I still have to check in with myself. Hey, did I eat enough at breakfast? Okay. It's been four hours. Why am I feeling tired? I should probably need to eat something. So yeah, you still gotta stay on top of your own health.

Sarah Schlichter (23:32)
Mm-hmm.

Exactly, yeah. And as a lactation consultant, now we'll kind of start talking more about the breastfeeding. I'm hoping you can give us a little insight because there may be moms here who really wanted to breastfeed, but maybe they didn't have the milk supply or, you know, there were other issues. Like I've dealt with two tongue ties and we did the revisions and breastfeeding was really hard in the beginning. I'm so glad I stuck with it, but...

In terms of the milk supply, Are those products like the lactation cookies, the powders, the milk boosting supplements, those real evidence based or are those more of like marketing gimmicks?

Allegra Gast (24:21)
marketing gimmicks. There was actually a PubMed study, I think it came out in 2021, saying that they broke up moms in two groups and they gave moms lactation cookies and the other groups, they were placebo ones and there was no difference.

in output. I think, enjoy that cookie because it's a cookie, but it's not a magic pill. It's not going to all of a sudden boost your supply. And if it is most likely it's because you need the calories or maybe even oxytocin, which chocolate does have some oxytocin benefits. So that's why we give chocolate out on Valentine's day because it helps with that love hormone, oxytocin.

So no, you can take all the supplements in the world, but if you're not addressing the real reason why you have low milk supply or maybe you don't even have low milk supply, you're just comparing your supply to someone else's who might have an oversupply. And then you think, well, she's making seven ounces. Maybe I need to make that much too. And then you start doubting your supply and you buy all these lactation cookies and lactation products. so I think...

understanding how much babies actually need. It's really anywhere from like two to four ounces a feeding, maybe some babies five ounces, but you're not going to see a breastfed baby taking like 10 ounces, even if moms are pumping that much. Milk supply is very multifactorial. Is it poor milk removal because babies have a tongue tie? Maybe mom has the wrong flange size, and so that's going to affect her milk removal. ⁓

Or is there hormonal issues? Does mom have PCOS or hypothyroidism or thyroid concerns? Did she have a breast augmentation, maybe a breast reduction? Did she?

you know, maybe not grow enough breast tissue during puberty or even during pregnancy. milk supply is definitely multifactorial. And so that's where working with an IBCLC lactation consultant can be super helpful. Is it actually a supply issue or is baby not transferring enough? You know, are there underlying hormonal issues or maybe you need to focus more on hydration and nutrition.

We know a lot about dairy cows and their nutrition and they actually, dairy farmers actually give their cows more calories. They give them electrolytes, they have like salt sticks and we used to live in Texas. And so I got to know a lot of the farmers there and they, you know, always told me what an emphasis they put on their dairy cows and their nutrition to help with their milk supply. And so sometimes when we just address mom's nutrition, that in itself can improve.

stress can also impact milk supply. So, you know, there's always a lot of things. I always ask mom, why do think your milk supply is low? And they're like, ⁓ my baby is still fussy. It could be fussy for so many reasons. Doesn't mean it's your milk supply. I know there's a lot of Facebook groups and mom support groups where they're like, I swear by Oreos or I swear by the pink Starbucks drink.

Sarah Schlichter (27:16)
Isn't there like a red ⁓ Gatorade

too or something or blue? one of the colors.

Allegra Gast (27:19)
Yeah, yeah, they're like, has to be

red or blue Gatorade. And I'm like, ugh.

Sarah Schlichter (27:25)
I know, and

you bring up a really good point there about postpartum is already hard physically, emotionally, and you can feel lonely and like we won't really get into postpartum depression here, but I feel like those Facebook groups sometimes, while they can be helpful, they can also spark the comparison trap, they can spread misinformation and then make you feel worse about all of this. So you really do have to be careful about what you're exposing yourself to.

Allegra Gast (27:50)
Yes. Yeah. And I always say that if breastfeeding was easy, I wouldn't have a job. Like breastfeeding is very complex. It can be hard. if you're, experiencing doubt, if you're going through, you know, some hardships, reach out to an IBCLC because we are the boob doctors. Like we're here to help with your breastfeeding journeys because it's not always easy. And I was a lactation consultant before I had my first baby and it was like,

The hardest thing ever, had cracked nipples, vasospasm, my baby had a really bad tongue tie, I was using the wrong flange size. like, even if you know things, like you can't control your baby and what they're capable of at the breast. So yeah.

Sarah Schlichter (28:31)
Mm-hmm. I have so much

respect for IVCLCs. I've seen them throughout all three nursing experiences postpartum and everyone's different. Every baby's different and you know, whatever the issue was, I was able to feel so much better after seeing a lactation consultant and not trying to solve my problem online through a Facebook group. So I highly, highly recommend and a lot of insurances. Do they cover your visits? Like if people try to find someone in their area?

Can they look through insurance? ⁓

Allegra Gast (29:00)
Yes, they can. Some insurances don't. It's been a struggle. I feel like they just don't see breastfeeding as a necessity. yeah, a lot of times they don't or they don't cover virtual like telehealth. So I've been in network with some, but they recently dropped specifically Blue Cross Blue Shield back in May. So it's been harder to navigate insurance and then maybe they don't

pay as well as IBCLC should be paid. And yeah, it can be hard to navigate that. Or maybe you live in a rural area and you don't have anyone near you and then insurance doesn't cover that telehealth. So I feel like insurance is always hard to navigate.

Sarah Schlichter (29:43)
Okay, yeah, very hard to navigate, but if you do

have the means, I would definitely recommend it's worth every penny paying out of pocket just getting that, that specialty expert advice. And one thing you said, it will, it'll save you, it'll save you so much stress, time, and even just reassurance. Like you're saying there's so many reasons why a baby might be fussy, right? It's not necessarily that you have low milk supply. So I think that's

Allegra Gast (29:54)
Because it'll save you in the long run.

Sarah Schlichter (30:10)
a really big myth to bust, like looking at the big picture, which you can do, but also that tie between milk supply and nutrition. I never want to say that causes that, right? Maybe there's a correlation or an association, but can you talk a little more about that? If a mom is nutritionally depleted or not eating enough herself, is it true that her body is going to be making less milk?

Allegra Gast (30:33)
Yeah, I mean, we do see in malnourished countries, moms are still able to breastfeed. But if you're in the Western civilization, you're used to eating a lot of food. We don't have these famines like maybe in Africa or other countries. And so we're trying to support our body, trying to support our hormones.

and then you're in a deficit and maybe you're part of this bounce back culture, which I hope nobody is, because we need to move away from that. But if you're restricting calories, then it is going to impact how your hormones work, how your cortisol levels are. your body's trying to compensate and it will increase cortisol, which cortisol impacts oxytocin, which is your letdown hormone.

if you can really fuel yourself, focus on balanced meals to keep your blood sugar steady, balanced blood sugar is the best thing you can do for your nervous system. It will help lower that cortisol. So, when you can start eating more nutrient dense foods, especially with an emphasis on fiber and protein and healthy fat, that helps your body feel stronger and more efficient to produce breast milk.

And like I said, mean, even if you're in a calorie deficit, like malnourished countries, you can still make breast milk, but maybe not as much as you potentially could be. I always go back to how is mom feeling herself and then, you know, how do you feel? Are you okay? Are you tired all the time? Are you experiencing mood disorders? You know, a lot of this mood disorders and like, mom rage, we've kind of...

normalize this, a lot of it is just you're hangry. You your body is hungry. And so when you're not feeling yourself, you're going to lash out a little bit more. You're going to have these mood swings. nutrition in the postpartum period isn't just about milk supply. It's also about you, you

Sarah Schlichter (32:25)
Yeah, you bring up a great point. I mean, even if you are eating less calories and you're making adequate milk, your body's probably using all of your reserves and nutrition to make that milk. So what's left over for you, right? Like your energy is probably depleting and then all of your organs aren't getting enough, your cells, your tissues, and then of course your mood, your brain and all of that. So I think it's really important to see the big picture. You had mentioned

know, breastfeeding could be an extra 500 to a thousand calories on the higher end if you're nursing multiple children. But how much more should breastfeeding moms be looking to take in? Is it like an extra snack? Should they be having a bedtime snack after dinner? smaller meals throughout the day? Is there a way to put that in perspective?

Allegra Gast (33:11)
I definitely encourage honoring your hunger cues. I'm not about counting calories. You're counting diapers, you're counting ounces of milk. I don't want you counting calories. the way to know if you're eating enough is how frequently you're eating. So even with breastfeeding, should, especially if you're getting a full meal, that should keep you

full for at least three hours. So, if you're hungry within one hour, then you probably didn't eat enough. So, checking in, seeing how frequently you're eating, and then how is your energy because a big sign of not eating enough is low energy because food is fuel. So making sure you're eating enough that can help with your energy. it could be just an extra piece of toast with your breakfast. It could be

a half of an avocado with your breakfast or lunch. Maybe you go for double portions. I mean, I'm more about eating double, triple portions at a meal than restricting yourself and then being hungry all day. So I'd rather you eat a bigger meal and then, that keeps you satisfied for three hours as opposed to limiting yourself and then being hungry an hour later. And especially with kids, you don't always have time to eat every single hour.

Sarah Schlichter (34:18)
Yeah.

Allegra Gast (34:20)
I know babies think they can eat every hour, every two hours. But yeah, checking in, seeing how your energy is, how hungry are you? And then it could just be an extra 200 calories. So that could be maybe ⁓ yogurt, Greek yogurt, and you top some berries on that. Or maybe a rice cake with some hummus on top. So it doesn't have to be a whole extra meal in the middle of the day.

it doesn't have to, like, I think we see 500 extra calories and that sounds like a lot, but you know, a PB and J maybe, or beef jerky with string cheese and a banana, something like that.

Sarah Schlichter (35:00)
Yeah, I think those are very practical options and a great answer. We don't want you stressing about numbers. We don't want you counting those. We don't want you subtracting those to, fit that bounce back culture. That's the complete opposite of what we're talking about. But I think you also mentioned, listen to your hunger. Like it's normal to feel hungrier in those early months. I was way hungrier feeding, doing nursing than I was training for a marathon. And I was running 15 miles a day. I mean, I was so much hungrier.

Allegra Gast (35:25)
Yeah.

Sarah Schlichter (35:29)
Postpartum, so there's a reason that your body is, yeah, mean, women's bodies are so amazing. So tune in, try not to be so busy or so focused on your baby that you're not focused on yourself. So again, I think we have to go back to what we've talked about as we started the conversation that your needs are important and a little preparation could go a long way.

Allegra Gast (35:31)
You're amazing.

Sarah Schlichter (35:51)
⁓ And I think your point about eating more at a meal is very practical. The odds are much better that you're going to get more nutrition there than eating again in an hour. How inconvenient to keep feeling hungry when you're trying to take care of a baby.

Allegra Gast (36:04)
Yeah, yeah. So I made a reel and I was like, the biggest hack if you're still hungry is eat double portions, go back for seconds, like it's okay to go back for seconds. Maybe it's okay to even go back for thirds, you know, especially if you're in that season where baby is cluster feeding, you're not sleeping well, your body's looking elsewhere for that fuel because you're not sleeping well. So really listen and it's okay to have double portions if that's what you need

Sarah Schlichter (36:16)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I love normalizing that 100%. Okay, so as we start to wrap up, are there any other maybe important nutrition tips that go with this postpartum period or any other breastfeeding things you see a lot in your practice that may be helpful for new moms to know?

Allegra Gast (36:48)
I think a big part for nutrition is knowing that it doesn't have to be all or nothing. after a long day, you don't want to cook, you have decision fatigue. And so I want to normalize, living in a first world country and relying on convenience foods. not all convenience foods is bad. Trader Joe's has some great, meals that you can just pop in the oven or pop in the microwave that are nutrient dense. Costco has ready to go meals.

So I think if that's your season, it doesn't have to be all or nothing. I think some people think healthy eating means making everything from scratch. So I do a lot of frozen vegetables because it's washed, it's cut, it's ready to go. You just pop it in the microwave or just open it up and put it in your soups or stews and your pasta dishes. So my personal rule of thumb is if I'm gonna cook it, I might as well buy frozen because it's ready to go. It cuts back my time.

relying on some of those like lentil Indian pouches, sometimes we'll make some instant rice and then add one of those pouches and then maybe get a rotisserie chicken or maybe I'll make a whole chicken too, where you just put it in the oven and then let it cook for an hour and a half or so. And then you have that chicken ready to go. know, sheet pan recipes, crock pot meals, you know, lot of these things.

⁓ can be super helpful for setting your nutrition up without spending hours and hours in the kitchen. And then also finding out what time of day your family does best. So like for us, my twins had a really bad witching hour from like five to nine PM every single day for like several weeks and it was horrible. So I learned to make our dinners in the morning. So I would do more of the crock.

pot meals or maybe I would prep everything and then at four o'clock I could just put it in the oven and then we had dinner ready to go by five and so my kids could eat while I took care of the twins. you know just kind of finding those kitchen hacks are super helpful. Dinner could be as easy as just chicken rice and broccoli. It doesn't have to be a gourmet meal. And then I think your question on breastfeeding. Know that it can take some time it's

It learned skill. So we see this even with monkeys and gorillas. I don't know if you saw that story at the zoo. I think it was like the Ohio Zoo. The gorilla didn't know how to feed its baby. And so they brought in La Leche League leaders and they nursed their baby. And so the gorillas then watched them nurse the babies and figured out how to do it themselves.

Sarah Schlichter (39:04)
you

Allegra Gast (39:14)
So breastfeeding is a learned skill. It's okay to ask for help. It might take some time. There is a learning curve for both mom and baby. So, you know, help is available. So don't be afraid to ask for help.

Sarah Schlichter (39:25)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, totally. And Allegra is an IBCLC which is the International Board Certified Lactation Consultant. So that's what you want to go to, but she's also a dietitian. So I feel like that is, you know, a super advantage to have someone who has that background, those credentials and that expertise. So we will make sure we call out all of your

Allegra Gast (39:35)
lactation. Yep.

Sarah Schlichter (39:51)
social media and your website in the show notes so people can go to you for help. But before I let you go, what is your easy meal that you make as a mom of four when you have no thoughts left, your mental fatigue is depleted, kids are hungry, what are you making in the kitchen? Okay, jarred sauce.

Allegra Gast (40:09)
Spaghetti. Spaghetti, tacos.

Yeah, I got some sauce. I add a can of diced tomatoes. If I have some liver, so I like to make liver pate and then freeze it in two tablespoons chunks. And then I'll pop them out and put it into a ground beef recipe. I actually learned that from Lily Nichols. So, you ⁓

Sarah Schlichter (40:31)
Such a good hack, we didn't even get into

liver today, but add that to your postpartum plan, ladies.

Allegra Gast (40:36)
Yeah.

Yeah, so I'll add that and then maybe some mushrooms and then maybe I steam some broccoli on the side and I usually will buy angel hair pasta because it's faster. So when my kids are hangry, I'll do that. I also do like tacos because that's just quick. And then chilies.

So I do chili a lot because I can just throw in canned beans, canned tomato sauce, I do the ground beef, and then I can just let it cook on the stove and I don't have to be in the kitchen the whole time. So I kind of let it just do its cooking on its own. So those are really my two, three meals that are my go-tos when I have no mental capacity left and my kids are screaming and I'm just like, I need to put dinner together. ⁓

Sarah Schlichter (41:21)
Yeah,

it helps moms just to have like a few go-tos because you don't really have to waste energy thinking about it. You kind of just, you know, know it from doing it so many times. So thank you for sharing those. Let us know where people can find you and how they can reach out if they have interest in working with you.

Allegra Gast (41:36)
Yeah, so I'm mostly on Instagram. You can follow me at aloha.nutrition. I also have my website aloha-nutrition.com. We help families with their nutrition and breastfeeding journeys all around the world. So we're primarily virtual. I have right now four other dietitians and lactation consultants. And yeah, we have some courses. I have a freebie. I have my free mineral guide, which you can learn some like.

do it yourself recipes as well as some products. But yeah, really just focus on nutrition, give yourself grace. This is a season. I know it's a challenging season, but you know, try to do the best you can. And just remember with breastfeeding, your baby doesn't know like every drop you give, you know, they just want love. They just want to be loved by you. So don't be too hard on yourself either.

Sarah Schlichter (42:25)
Yes, amen to that. All right, Allegra, well, thank you so much for your time today. We will have all of those resources and maybe we can share that free mineral guide in the show notes as well. Okay.

Allegra Gast (42:35)
Thank you so much.