Finding Your Authentic Voice with Mel Collins

Award-winning jazz vocalist Mel Collins joins Beauty in the Break for a powerful conversation about healing through music, reclaiming identity, and finding joy in your authentic voice. Mel opens up about her journey from musical theater to jazz after years of vocal nodules, depression, and identity loss. When the discovery of one Ella Fitzgerald CD changed everything, Mel rediscovered her joy—and her calling.

Mel talks about navigating two vocal surgeries, aging in entertainment, her identity as a Black American, and how jazz became the liberating art form she was always meant to sing. She shares wisdom for artists, singers, and anyone searching for their path: how to know what’s yours, how to honor your voice, and how grace and pride can carry you through breaking moments.

In this episode they explore: 

• The $1.99 CD that saved Mel’s voice and rewrote her future
• What two vocal surgeries taught her about healing, humility and reclaiming her voice
• Why Mel was expected to be someone else—before they even heard her sing
• The underestimated power of silent recovery and vocal rest
• Rejecting the label ‘African American’ in favor of something more rooted
• How artists can stop chasing youth and start owning their power 

Mel Collins:

• Follow her on Instagram
• Check out her music and hire her to sing! 

If this episode spoke to you, you will love Find Laughter in Life & Death with actress/producer Jennica Schwartzman. You can also watch the episodes on YouTube.

If you enjoyed this episode, take a moment to follow Beauty in the Break on your favorite podcast app and leave a review—it really helps!

Reach out to the show—send an email or voice note to beautyinthebreakpod@gmail.com and be sure to follow on Instagram. 

Cesar Cardona:

• Attend his upcoming speaking engagements
• Listen to music from Cesar + The Clew on Apple Music and Spotify
• Receive his monthly newsletter Insights That Matter

Foster Wilson:

• Buy her poetry book Afternoon Abundance
• Learn about her postpartum services
• Receive her monthly newsletter Foster’s Village

Created & Hosted by: Cesar Cardona and Foster Wilson

Executive Producer: Glenn Milley

Special Guest: Mel Collins

Transcript

I was the only black American at my school.

Because I needed to find who I was and prove how I belong,

I was listening and looking for how my voice fit,

as opposed to, this is what I have and this is what I have to give,

because I know who I am now.

Trying to be someone you are not will hurt you.

Who cares about everybody else?

It will hurt you.

You are responsible for you.

When you give yourself permission to not be what people expect you to be,

and it's okay to stumble along the way while you do that.

Hello and welcome to Beauty in the Break.

I'm Foster.

And I'm Cesar.

This is the podcast where we explore the moments that break us open

and how we find beauty on the other side.

So whatever you're carrying today, you don't have to carry it alone.

We are here with you.

Thanks for being here and enjoy the show.

Hello, beautiful.

Welcome to Beauty in the Break.

We're so glad to have you here.

And we have today a very special guest.

I'm so excited to introduce her.

Her name is Mel Collins.

She is an award-winning jazz vocalist who has performed with the South Coast Symphony

and lent her vocal talents to artists like BTS and Michael Buble.

Her voice has been featured in commercials and on TV across HBO Max,

Cartoon Network, and Netflix.

She spent over eight years as the premier jazz singer at Disneyland's exclusive Club 33

and has released five jazz albums.

That's true.

Welcome to the show, Mel Collins.

Hi.

Hi.

Thank you.

What a sweet welcome.

I sound good when you guys talk about it.

Well, the way in for our connection here for you listening is that Mel is married to one of my great friends

who started off as a client.

He and I were training boxing.

We got along.

We became more and more friends.

And then he invited me to Vibrato's to watch you perform.

That's right.

And you blew my socks off with your voice, with your presence, with your beauty, with your smile.

You just carried all of it.

Oh, that's sweet.

And then this is the thing that happens often.

I've been feeling this a whole lot lately in my life is I turn to him and go,

Oh, you lucked out, my friend.

You lucked out.

You got like, you dated upward.

Oh, no.

It's mutual.

I'm feeling the same in this capacity.

It's mutual.

We are equally yoked.

We've got a good thing going on together.

He's a beautiful soul too.

Yeah.

Thank you for the work you do on my husband.

That is right.

That is correct.

Very often I do find that if the client tells me something that their wife wants them to look like,

I go for those.

Yeah.

Because they'll come back and say, my mom was like rubbing my, my mom, my, my mom.

My wife was rubbing my arms.

I go, I know.

Yeah.

I know.

I know.

You're welcome.

Yeah.

Yeah.

When we first started talking about who we wanted on the show, your name came up first

and foremost.

We wanted to have you here.

Tell us your story.

Tell us all the good things.

Oh, gosh.

There's so much.

I love jazz.

Let's, let's start there.

I love classic jazz.

I love jazz standards.

There's something called the great American songbook, which is basically all the jazz standards

you've heard your whole life, like L-O-V-E or I can't give you anything but love.

How did you come to find that for you?

From where I come from, I, I say like I grew up singing in church.

And so like my dad was like a minister.

We were there like every Sunday without fail.

I hated it.

But I was there every single Sunday without fail.

One part I, the part I did enjoy was the music.

Always loved the music.

I would sing in the choir, but I was like fourth alto from the left because the people who sang

the solos, did all of that stuff.

These amazing voices, the world would never hear.

Like Aretha Franklin would be like, oh my gosh, I'm nervous.

Like these are the people that would sing.

So, and so I never thought that I could do that.

And I love to act.

And I said, okay, when I went to school, I thought, okay, well I can act and sing a little

bit.

So I'll do musical theater.

Not realizing that I had a gift as well, just differently than the way a lot of people

or society hears black women.

You know, they all think they're like Jennifer Hudson and there's like such a range of voices

and everything.

So I went to school for that and I was doing well.

And then I started to have vocal issues.

I started to have these things called nodules and they are like blisters or polyps on your

vocal cords.

They can develop for a thousand reasons, but what you always end up thinking is that

it's your fault.

I started to develop that and it was really putting a hamper on how I could audition or

how I could perform.

And one day I was in a tower of records.

Hello kids.

I'm old.

So I was in a tower of records and I was looking through the, like the bargain bin.

This is what you had to do to find music.

You had to look through a bargain bin.

And I found a CD that said Ella Fitzgerald gold collection for a buck 99.

And I seriously thought about not buying it because I was broke and I was a college student.

And now I think about that and what a find that was.

And it was basically free.

It was a gift, you know, and I put it on and the music on that lightened my soul.

Like it just shot me out of depression so fast.

Like I found my tribe, that sound, the music that I love, that my voice did naturally.

And it told stories.

The Great American Songbook tells great stories.

It's from Broadway.

Like all those songs are from Broadway.

And then all the jazz artists, pop artists of like the 20th century, they all sing that music.

If you're wondering where the music comes from, it comes from Broadway.

So yeah, I started to sing that.

And with jazz, it's about improvisation.

So you can put it in a key.

So if you're having a tough day, lower the key.

If you don't like the note, you can change the note.

You know, you can't do that in musical theater because people are coming expecting to hear what they're expecting to hear.

One of my good friends, you know, was Elphabon Wicked.

And when she was having a rough day, she was like, they're expecting.

I can't not do it.

Right.

And the thing that's beautiful about jazz is nobody's expecting you to do that.

You kind of have to stay with the melody the first time through if you respect the music, I think.

But then your second pass, it's like, how different can you make it?

And you're working with what you have right now, that day, that minute.

And it feels real and free.

And it helped me find myself.

The other side of that was I thought, well, this is great.

But how do I make a living singing this stuff?

Because at the time it was 2000 and something.

And I'm like, there's nobody's doing this music anymore.

This was like from 50 years ago.

Right.

I didn't know that that existed.

I started doing this show at Disneyland.

And the guys, I was lamenting to them about how much I love this music.

There's nowhere to do it.

And they looked at me like, what are you talking about?

We literally do this outside of here, everywhere.

We tour around the world.

We play at this club down the street.

Like, I just had no idea that this world even existed.

What stands out for me the most, and this is kind of why we have this show,

is where you stumble is where you find your treasure.

Right.

Right.

You said you were depressed.

Yes, extremely.

When you found the record.

What's it called again?

Oh, Ella Fitzgerald, The Gold Collection.

There's the treasure.

Volume one, volume one.

Volume one.

There's your treasure.

It's actually gold.

It's actually gold.

Yeah, I was going to say.

There's the storyline in this bad moment of your life.

Yeah.

Can you share a little bit of why you were depressed during that time?

Oh, yeah, for sure.

I think you're just trying to find, when you're young, where you belong,

proving where you're supposed to be.

And that was double-sided for me, because I was also, at the time, the only African American.

And I'm saying African American.

That is not the term I like to use, but I say that for everybody else, because they...

What do you use?

I go by black American.

I go by black American.

It's a long explanation.

Be comfortable.

Own that.

There's a safe space for that.

I was the only black American in the first year.

At your school.

At my school.

Okay.

In that conservatory.

There was a conservatory, and I was the only one.

I had been in that space several times in my life.

I grew up in a suburb, predominantly white suburb.

So I was not necessarily uncomfortable with being in that space.

I'd just known it for so long, I'd gotten used to it.

But it came with all of the micro and macroaggressions you could expect.

The difference this time was everybody in that area had to earn their spot.

There's always a feeling of proving yourself.

I think if you're a black person or a person of color or anybody that might be marginalized,

whenever you're in a status quo community, there is a feeling that comes that I have to

prove how I belong here.

I was battling that at the same time realizing, oh no, now my voice couldn't do what they

expected it to do.

Now they're right.

Now I don't feel good enough.

Now I don't belong here.

Now I, you know, cause I can't do all the things that they expected me to do.

Well, what they were expecting me to do was be someone I wasn't.

As though I hadn't learned yet that what I have to offer was more than enough.

I didn't know, you know, it's just maturity and time before you can prove to yourself that

you belong somewhere.

You know, that's all you need to prove it to is yourself, not anybody else.

What did they want you to be?

There was a young lady who had been in the program prior to me, like the year before.

We're friends now.

Her name is Vanetta.

She also could sing like that.

The super loud, super strong, black belty sound.

And she had left.

And so I walked in the door and they were like, oh, you're going to be Vanetta.

And there was no reason for me to be Vanetta.

There was literally no reason for me to be Vanetta other than the color of my skin.

So now I'm thinking, but I love this music and I love to get to sing and perform and act.

And I want to be a part of this really prestigious group that I auditioned and fought my way to

get into.

So do I tell them I'm not Vanetta?

But then it was like, well, if you're not, then what do you have?

If you can't give us that, then why are you here?

And you hadn't found that yet.

I hadn't found it.

Exactly.

So now I'm like trying to be with the, and then meanwhile, I'm hurting myself.

This is the thing that I think was the biggest lesson.

Trying to be someone you are not will hurt you.

Who cares about everybody else?

It will hurt you.

You are responsible for you.

I wish I'd known that then.

You know, I had an audition.

I hadn't said a word.

I literally walked in the door and they said to me, can you stand about 20 feet back before

you start?

Because they had already assumed I was going to belt the roof off the place.

Oh my God.

I'm like, I'm not even singing that type of song.

Sure.

And then I started singing.

They were like, oh, oh, can you start again, but come closer?

And I'm like, yeah, I can do that.

So yeah, all of the assumptions.

I'm six feet tall.

The conservatory training, what you were saying is really interesting.

I also went to conservatory training for acting.

And so I had great training and there's a lot of wonderful skills that I learned.

But the job of the training program at that age, that young age is really, there's a lot

of breaking down that happens.

And I think, yes, some of that might be necessary for some people, but some souls, like we can't

come back from the breaking down.

That's right.

It's damaging.

I learned that like the way I operate in the world is not correct.

I need to unlearn everything I know, break me down to zero.

And there's such a good chance that you don't come back from that.

And that you, a lot of people like just completely left the field whatsoever.

You know, they didn't certainly didn't make it.

They just don't even do that anymore.

That's absolutely correct.

I think if anybody is teaching at that young of an age, especially in college, you're like,

you're just out of the nest and you're figuring life out for yourself.

It needs to be such a nurturing place for that individual to figure out who they are as a unique

being.

That's going to be their superpower no matter what you do in the arts.

Exactly who you are and how you are different from everybody else.

Absolutely.

I also think there's just this conception that in order for you to be strong, you have to be beat up.

Yeah.

And I think it's just the opposite.

I think in order for you to be strong, you have to be nurtured, you know, so that when tough things come,

you are not already so bruised.

Your strength has come from the inside, not because somebody beat you up on the outside and you had to heal.

Right.

I just think that's a misconception that we have throughout a lot of fields.

And I don't mean to say like anybody else in that program wasn't going through that.

I think we all were in our own way.

That being said, I'm grateful.

I'm grateful for that.

And it was a long experience.

Like I, it went past college.

I had, I had to have vocal surgery twice.

Great.

Talk about that.

Yeah.

Talk about your surgery.

Okay.

So the first time I waited, I waited, I waited because you know, everybody was terrified over

the Julie Andrews thing.

Julie Andrews had, she had vocal surgery.

Mary Poppins that we all know had vocal surgery and it went badly and she wasn't able to speak

or talk.

And that was like shocking.

I remember this so clearly.

It was like early 2000s, shocking to all of the world.

And like, how could this happen?

How could Ms. Julie Andrews like no longer sing?

And so then it kind of put this whole brush over, never have vocal surgery because it's

going to screw you up, which is not true.

It's not the case.

You got to have the right surgeon.

You have to know exactly what's wrong with you and what's needed.

It's not all the same.

I think that fear keeps you from being free.

So I struggled for years because I was just afraid to do the thing that was going to give

me the freedom.

I finally got to a point where I could barely speak, let alone sing.

And so it was like, if I'm going to continue this at all, I've got to do it.

And so, and I was still young.

So I still had, you know, youthful cords, as you will.

I had the surgery and oh my God, I was so like, why didn't I do this sooner?

It taught me that what I was doing already was the right thing.

I was having the right technique.

I was using the right support.

I was drinking the right water.

I was doing, you know, the right, all the things I could do to make myself okay.

It wasn't me.

There was something that, that happened to me.

And what the doctor said, then I'll never forget.

You have a couple of physical things that are going on with you and it makes you more susceptible.

It doesn't mean that it's going to happen, but it just makes you more susceptible.

I was grateful for that because it taught me like, okay, this is not something I'm doing.

It's just something that happens to me.

We all have stuff that makes our lives a little tough, right?

And then relieve the guilt of it too.

Exactly.

Like I have done something wrong.

I'm bad.

A bad singer.

I have bad form, which is what the world wants to tell you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

All of those things.

And then ironically, then the confidence came.

I could do anything, right?

I had to watch all my friends, you know, go off to Broadway and have better careers and,

and really flourish.

I was depressed because I kept feeling like there's something wrong with me that I can't fix.

I'm also a very private person in that way.

I was embarrassed.

I'm doing something wrong.

I'm embarrassed.

Again, that feeling of not belonging here.

I didn't, I don't deserve my place here.

Right?

So then I have this surgery, which is, oh, fixes everything.

Or so I thought, and I working, I'm working, I'm doing all the things.

Everything's great.

Years are happening.

And I'm starting to notice something again.

But I'm like, nope, nope, nope.

I already went through that.

We're fine.

There's nothing happening.

There's nothing to see here, folks.

You know, as time went on, I had some physical challenges.

I actually went, hello, everybody.

You're about to learn me really well.

I went through early menopause.

Like I was 35 years old.

Whoa.

Wow.

Which, but this goes back to what the doctor was saying.

It's like, you have some things that are going on with you that you might like just watch out

because it's not you.

It's just your body.

It's genetics.

Right?

So because of that, with the hormones and everything else, it just swole me up so bad that it just took one job, that it started again.

This time I went to the doctor right away, had them check it out.

And they were like, yeah, you have this.

And it's starting to harden fast because of early menopause, all of those things.

So here's what we're going to do.

We're going to sit you up for a second surgery.

And I thought, oh my God, I don't know anybody who's had one.

And I'm having two, you know.

But this time I thought this is something happening to me, not that it's me.

So I was able to keep that separate from who I am, what I bring.

I had learned that I have value.

I had learned that I belong no matter what.

So this time it wasn't a personal battle on the inside of me.

It was a frustrating battle, but not a personal battle.

And the good thing about it is I went to my husband and I said, this is a trigger for me.

It's a very scary moment.

So if I'm weird, it's because this is something that shook my entire adult life.

So just give me a little grace as I'm navigating.

He was Johnny on the spot.

He was so supportive.

He understood.

I waited, I think, a little bit too long to do the surgery because I had a job.

And I was like, I'm not leaving this job.

I'm going to finish this job.

And it was a good paying job too.

And I finished it.

And then I scheduled the surgery for the day after we finished.

Apparently, I went to sleep on the table when I woke up.

The doctor was standing over me and she had a weird look on her face.

And I thought, oh God, what's happened?

You know, and you can't speak when you first wake up from vocal surgery.

You have to wait.

She said, okay, so you had a vocal hemorrhage, which people don't come back from if you're a singer.

You don't come back from that.

So mostly.

She said, you had a vocal hemorrhage.

I think we're going to be okay.

I didn't take off everything because she said, I just, I didn't want to chance it.

She was excellent.

Excellent surgeon.

Now I have to wait before I can even talk to find out if I'm even going to be able to talk or sing.

Oh my God.

Right?

So I'm like waiting like two weeks.

It usually takes about two weeks.

Two weeks of vocal rest?

Yeah, saying nothing.

Wow.

Like literally no words whatsoever.

Literally nothing.

No words whatsoever.

Now I'd been through this before.

Wait, is that so tempting to try to-

Oh, extremely.

Especially if you're like, maybe nothing will come out.

You know, though, if you're a professional singer, you've done vocal rest before.

You shouldn't do it more than like three days at a time because you don't want your chords

to atrophy, but you've done it before.

Rested your voice and had to be quiet.

You know, if you, if you've done this for a living.

And nowadays it's so easy because you have apps that you can just type in and it speaks

for you.

But back then I had a big notepad and I'm like writing like, please move over.

You know, things like just, you know, you also learn what's really important to say and

what isn't, you know, cause you can't.

That part.

Yeah.

You're like, I don't need to say this right now.

Just sit in, just take a minute, have some grace for that person.

You realize how much you are using your voice.

Not always for your best or for someone else's best.

Like 85% of money.

85%.

You're not wrong.

I would go even higher.

Yes.

There's so much you don't need to be saying.

Just sit and listen and be quiet.

You learn so much about yourself and about how you treat other people that you're not even

aware of because why would you be?

Somebody and I are chatting for coffee this week and she was talking about a silent retreat

that she goes on regularly.

And immediately I'm researching it and looking it up and fantasizing that you and I will go

for three days.

And I'm like, what will that be like to just be silent and also be together, but be silent.

It's so weird.

It's a great practice.

And you're right.

It is hard at first.

Once you do start talking, you almost miss it.

Cause it was just like, I didn't have to say anything.

No one expected me to say anything.

I could just sit here.

And now, you know, people are like, we know you can talk now, so you better say something.

You know, that was tough, but I ended up being fine.

I prayed a lot during that time.

I was really reflective during that time.

I didn't have the same fear and the risk was greater.

Yeah.

It was greater.

It was hemorrhage.

It wasn't just a polyp or, you know, what I learned during that time.

But like I said, that it wasn't about me.

It was not a, it was not an indictment on who I am or who, what my talent was or what I have

to give to the world.

I had enough strength in myself by that point that I was navigating the frustration of not

being able to do the work I wanted to do, but not who I was.

And so the depression wasn't the same, didn't come.

I got down sometimes because, but not, it wasn't debilitating.

It wasn't a falling apart.

It wasn't all the fear and anxiety that I had the first time.

And I loved that.

I love the learning of that more than getting my voice back.

And it taught me other ways to use my voice with more power, more storytelling, more patience,

more gravitas that I didn't have previously.

And it's funny because if I listened to old recordings, I think, oh, that voice was so much better

technically.

But if I listen to it now, my voice now, I go, that voice knows so much more.

Like I want to buy her record and not the one previous, you know.

The container of something can allow you to be more creative.

Yes.

So you're using different tools that you didn't think to use before.

Exactly.

Because you had more range or technique or however you want to put it.

Well, and I judge differently.

Yeah.

I'm not judging how good I sound.

I'm judging what I'm saying, what I'm bringing, how it makes me feel, how it makes other people feel.

It stopped being my thing.

My voice.

I always say this to my husband so many times because he loves to do recording sessions.

And I don't really care.

I don't care for recording sessions.

I love singing live because it's not about me in that moment.

I am giving this gift.

I'm sharing my voice with everybody out there.

And it's about what they're receiving.

I'm not even thinking about how I sound.

Yeah.

It's for them in that moment.

I don't, when you're recording, you have to listen back and think about how you sound.

And I just have no interest.

I'm, I'm literally giving this to them in real time and it's out there.

It's gone.

The moment's happening right now.

And that's my favorite.

I love that point that you made about now you have to find the tools for who you are.

It's not just any and every single thing.

You found this, this like circle of competence.

Like what are I, what am I really, really good at?

Right.

Yeah.

And then you can utilize those because you get more and more familiar with those tools.

And then, you know, the hammer is only needed for putting the nail in.

Yeah.

Not needed for sawing the board.

That's right.

You get really specific with the tools that you have.

Exactly.

You get very specific.

Yeah.

And then what, and then what comes up for me after that is what other beautiful genre could

you actually really sharpen those tools in than jazz?

Right.

Like you said, it serves the performer in the moment.

Right.

Instead of having to sound like something else, you need to sound like you.

Exactly.

And you got these two sides that came in and like, it's like a third side as well.

Cause you had these allies, these doctors and surgeons and people telling you like, no,

you can do this.

Kind of giving you a push of shifting in the way you want to go.

Yeah.

Relieving you of some of your stress of you thinking this was my problem.

These nodules were my problem, but they're not.

They helped you remove that stuff.

Right.

And then you get to say, okay, where am I?

Who am I?

What do I want?

And what can I do with it?

What can I do with it?

What can I do?

What can I bring?

What can I give with it?

If you stop thinking about what it's doing for you and how, what can I serve with it?

It changes your whole relationship to it because I needed to find who I was and prove how I

belong.

I was listening and looking for how my voice fit as opposed to this is what I have.

And this is what I have to give.

And it's up to you if you want it.

It's okay.

Cause I know who I am now.

That's great.

I don't have to be the super loud singing for church down black girl.

Don't get me wrong.

Every now and then on a Sunday morning, I will throw down, but it's just.

Well, there's something beautiful about that because it's, that's also necessary.

Yes.

That has a place.

Absolutely.

Before they were just putting that on you as the only thing.

Well, that's not the way.

Exactly.

I have a dear friend who, a dear friend who that is her voice, but she grew up singing in

like orchestral choirs.

They were always constantly trying to change that voice and make it more like mine.

Oh my gosh.

When you're not being true to who you are and not because you don't, you're doing it on purpose.

It's just, you're just trying to belong.

Everyone wants to feel like they belong.

Everyone wants to feel like they have a place.

And so it takes a minute to figure that out.

But her sound is absolutely needed.

And it was being smushed and mashed and trying to be manipulated into something else.

And she was sad.

She was, it made her leave college.

If that's the one thing I can get across to people is it's truly, truly, truly okay to

be different, to be not what is expected of you is completely okay.

And take your time to get there.

And what is your way into that?

Finding the thing that brought you joy.

That Ella Fitzgerald gold collection, what shocked me is I put this CD on and the sound

of this woman did something to me.

It did something to my heart.

It did something to, to my mind.

The words, which is then I discovered all the writers.

I love Rogers and heart.

Richard Rogers and Lauren's heart.

I should say the writing duo, which is like a lot of musical theater songs back in the

early part of the 20th century, or at least the first half.

I discovered how I love the cleverness of that.

Those things made me smile.

They made me giggle.

They made me laugh and inspired me to write.

When you unlock the thing that gives you joy, it's never going to be about that one thing.

It is a vessel to a thousand more ways of joy.

You're going to be like, Oh no, I love to write.

Oh my gosh.

I love to paint.

Oh my gosh.

Now I love to teach.

You're going to be so shocked when you give yourself permission to not be what people expect

you to be.

And it's okay to stumble along the way while you do that.

It's all right.

You're not doing anything wrong.

There's nothing wrong with you.

You are perfectly made.

Take your time.

That's fantastic.

Oh, that's my sort of like, that's that sort of know your joy, have your joy, follow your

bliss mentality.

I, at some point in my life, shifted my perspective and metaphorically speaking, I stopped thinking

I was the light bulb.

I started realizing I was the illumination.

When I got there, everything out here was just a secondary response to what I was giving

out because I was invested in the illumination.

Right.

You know, you drive to Disneyland and the sign says Disneyland 56 miles.

You don't stop at the sign.

You go, no, no, no.

Great.

That's a signal.

Right.

I'm doing the right thing.

What is the source of the right thing?

Right here.

Right here.

Not the sign.

Right.

Not the green grass, which sometimes it is green on the other side, but all of them have

manure in it, by the way.

So let's not forget that.

That part.

That part.

Well, that's how you grow, right?

Exactly.

So let's keep that in mind.

Right.

We can yes and this all day.

We really can.

Right.

But I love what you said that about being the illumination and not the actual light bulb.

Like we get so stuck on what we're supposed to be or the destination or this actual thing.

And it's really how the Disneyland sign made you feel.

So you kept going in that direction.

So what I would say is even if you're in your darkness or you're in a down period, there are

going to be things.

They're going to be that gold collection record that make you giggle inside.

Pay attention.

That's right.

Pay attention.

Always.

Write it down.

Don't be like, oh, that was nice and move on.

Wherever they are, even if they seem weird or small, there's a connection.

I promise there's always little signs.

There's always little things trying to shift you towards the illumination, if you will.

I could not agree more.

You know, everybody has different beliefs in religion and whatnot.

My deepest belief, the one that is in my core that I probably can't ever change is searching

for synchronicities.

Absolutely.

Finding these moments of, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Hang on.

Out of all the options in this world, I ended up walking into this shop and met this person

that I was needing to help sell me a packet of peanuts.

I don't know, you know, but those synchronicities in the world are just so much for me.

I found out, and I'll make this really quick.

I found out on February 17th in 12 years time on that same date, twice I got a nail in my tire

and had to get it plugged and posted on Facebook about it.

In a year apart, I went to Griffith Park to hike, went to the top and said, take a picture

here for me, please, to this person.

Opened my phone up, got a memories notice of, this is what you did a year ago today.

And it was standing in that same exact spot when I looked at the phone.

I had these rehearsals that went so well for this show.

I was so jazzed.

And I usually keep rehearsals to myself because what are you going to talk about rehearsals for?

I went online to post it and my memory said, you had already posted this 12 years prior.

All on February 17th, the same day.

I have no clue of breaking that down into logic.

I'm disinterested in that.

Those are just the signals, the sign on the road, the synchronicity of your life.

Well, these are the things that bring you joy.

Exactly.

Yeah.

So you're expressing that and it's coming around, the cycle of your life comes around somewhere

around February 17th, you know?

And who knows, that may change at some point.

It might be a different day, but the fact that that's happening means that you're paying

attention to it.

Absolutely.

And that's, I think that's fantastic.

The light bulb changes.

I'm the illumination.

You are the illumination.

Let that light bulb change.

Yep.

I also think the joy part, the like, oh, this little weird thing lights me up and makes me

giggle that makes no one else giggle, right?

And you follow that.

You start to piece that together.

That is not someone else's version of what your career should be.

Or maybe you should be a lawyer, like da-da-da-da-da-da, somebody else.

That's your very unique path to whatever this life journey is.

And in your uniqueness, there's your job security right there.

Nobody can be you.

Well, that's the point.

Nobody can be Mel Collins and doing what you do because you're uniquely you.

Well, you have to believe in yourself enough to know that though.

And I think in the moment when it's happening, particularly if you're young, you don't know

that yet.

That's the moment of going, oh, right.

This is what I have to bring.

There's only one Mel Collins, right?

If I had gotten stuck on, but I'm supposed to do this.

I'm supposed to do this thing over here.

People have told me I'm good at this over here.

I should do this thing over here.

As opposed to, well, you're doing it because people told you you were good at it.

Not because that's necessarily what's giving you joy.

You're trying to belong.

So you're doing what people expected of you.

That's you being a light bulb and not the illumination.

Like that's literally that time period for you to figure that out.

That's the tough period.

It's not even the nodules.

It's not even the surgeries.

It's realizing this is the thing that you can do that brings joy to yourself, which will

bring joy to others.

Stay open for that.

Just, it may change.

Stay open for that.

And all the things that happen to you, okay.

They're going to work together for your good.

Just give it a minute.

Just give it a minute, you know?

And in the meantime, find people who will have grace for you and support you while you're

doing it.

Nourish you.

And not continue to try to put you into a box.

You do not belong in a box.

You're too big for that.

All of us were too big for that.

Wholeheartedly.

There's new studies now that show that people's, their neurons are responding to somebody else's

subconscious action.

So if they're seeing somebody who's thinking or feeling fear, but not showing it, that other

person will sync up.

Oh, get out of here.

Really?

Yeah.

And then like they did a whole other part of it.

Like if you name it, it boots to the front of your thoughts.

It's a whole bunch of cool stuff.

But what's cool about that is if you have a subconscious part that recognizes the subconscious

part and you're an authentic person, that's why we like authentic people.

Because we can pick up on that authenticity.

That vibe.

Whether we want to recognize it or not or whatever, you can pick up on that realness of a person.

And everybody has a voice.

Everybody's voice is unique, right?

Right.

We got hands, but we got fingerprints.

Right.

The world will give you the layout of the way to do something.

And that seems really easy.

And that's short-term gain, long-term pain.

But you should reverse that.

Short-term pain, long-term gain.

Right, right, right.

And that's by being the most authentic version of yourself.

Right.

You mentioned having support systems and having people there and allies.

And I remember you told me this story once.

You felt overwhelmed by how much new information, how many new pieces you had to learn.

Yeah.

So this is when I started to do jazz as kind of a living or part of a career.

When I found out from those guys, I'm going to give them a shout out right now just because I owe them the world.

Do it.

I love them.

These were musicians from Disneyland.

And they were in the Jambalaya Jazz Band at the time and the Royal Street Bachelors at the time, which was like bands that had been around Disneyland almost since its conception.

They had been playing at the resort for years and doing this for years.

And that's when they were like, hey, you can do this on the outside.

You can go to these clubs.

They'll pay you this much.

You can go on these tours.

They'll pay you this much.

And there's a whole world out there that loves this music and will pay to hear this music.

I mean, one time I said, how many jazz standards are there?

Because that's me.

I'm like, give me the list and I'm going to learn this stuff.

Check the boxes.

Exactly.

Like, what is the formula?

And I will, I love rules so that I can break them.

I'm that person that's like, I'm going to do it my way.

Just let me know what the rules are so that I can do it how I want.

And I was like, how many, how many standards?

And I'm thinking, I'll do this in a weekend.

One friend said, Kenny Tresseter said, there's, I mean, at least a thousand.

And I said, I'm sorry, excuse me.

And he was like, yeah.

I was like, there's no way I'm going to memorize a thousand melodies.

Usually if you're fronting a band, you have to know it because we have to connect with all

of you.

So we have to kind of know it.

And I was like, there's no way.

And he was like, they all were like, easy.

Pick 20 tunes.

Start with 20 tunes.

Just learn 20 tunes.

And I'll be honest, at this point, I've only memorized like maybe 220.

But there's a long way to a thousand.

And some of them don't even have lyrics.

So I don't have to know all those.

But there's a great lesson in that, in breaking it down.

I'm someone who gets very overwhelmed when there's a, I can't imagine even 20, learning

20 songs.

But I'm very overwhelmed with like a project or some, you know, you think about a career and

I have to do all of these things to get to where I want to go.

But breaking it down really simply.

Learning 20 songs starts with learning one song.

Yeah.

Right.

And so that breakdown starts to make it more manageable.

And now, you know, several hundred.

That's wild, actually.

So the name of the episode is going to have to be Disneyland because I used it as a metaphor.

Honestly, like I thought it was going to be one summer.

I was going to work there for one summer.

How long have you worked there for one summer?

It's been 25 years, my friend.

Your best rose from Titanic compression.

Would you say?

And your best rose from Titanic compression.

Oh my gosh, it's been, honestly.

No, I, I, um.

That was it.

That was it.

1998 is when I first started working there.

Wow.

I feel like everyone's going to know how old I am.

And, which is fine.

I mean, that's fine.

Talk about that in a second.

Go ahead.

Yeah, we'll get to that.

You're getting there.

Yeah, 1998 is when I first started working there.

And I took a year off, uh, around the 2000 to go work for Disney Cruise Lines.

But back then you had to, you had to be fine.

Exactly.

Like, oh, I'm leaving.

Like, this is life.

You think you're doing something different?

You're not.

That's why I'm cheating on you with your brother.

Exactly.

Like, come on, you know?

And so you had to be terminated back then.

You couldn't go from like Florida to the cruise lines or whatever.

Like now it's all one, but you couldn't back then.

It has a lot of issues.

It has a lot of things as most corporations do.

It is still corporate America.

But I have to be honest, it's been very flexible.

It's been a solid foundation while I got to do things like going tour and sing jazz with other, you know, bands and everything.

I don't know many full-time jobs that will just let you leave for two months, three months, you know, and come back.

They encouraged it, or I should say they look the other way sometimes because they recognize that it made you a better performer.

And then when you come back, then you have more to bring and more to give.

It only elevates them.

So there you go, Disney.

There are your props.

Can't say I never said it.

I said it.

Okay.

Can you talk a little bit about aging in this profession?

Yes, I absolutely can.

So as a woman, I think overall in general, you're taught to not let the world know or your audience or be people in charge of you or who hires you or anyone, how old you are.

I think it's worse for women than it is for all entertainers.

But it's worse for women.

Um, because we are a youth obsessed society in general, but in entertainment, we're constantly selling that selling youthful energy and appearance.

We don't value the things like maturity and wisdom, which go along with aging.

I also think their underbelly of this is that you're not as easily manipulated when you are older.

And so the machine wants to be able to have more control.

So we focus on younger people because they will work, work, work and give you so much energy and be exploited and not really fight back.

And so the more they know how old you are, they less, they want to work with you.

They say it's because they want youthful exuberance, but I think underneath it is really, they want more control and less pushback because you can look young.

You can look 30.

If they know you're 50, they won't hire you.

They can say, I want a 30 year old.

And you literally look what the world thinks is 30 and they were going to hire you.

And they're like, Oh, you're 50.

We won't hire.

I've watched them do it.

I've watched this happen.

I've been on the side of the table where we're hiring people and they go, I don't know.

I think we want to go with someone a little younger.

It's like, no, you love them.

The second you found out how old they were, now you don't.

Why?

Do they know their worth?

Do they know their value?

That's it.

That's what I, I think that's a big part of that.

Because like I said, the looks can fool you.

And if it comes down to it, they don't want the person with more experience.

They want the person that they can manipulate and control.

And this is a part of some of the don't tell people your age.

Yes, it's very much a thing.

Because if you tell them, then you won't necessarily get the job.

If I think you're 30 and you say, actually, I'm 55.

They go, Oh, you're 55.

We wanted to hire a 30 year old.

They were going to hire you five seconds ago.

I can't think of any other reason why they could justify that rather than knowing you have experience.

Right.

Which experience with dealing with people of that nature.

I think that's some of it.

And also experience of the work in general.

Yes.

I also would say that wouldn't it behoove them in general to have the experience people teaching the younger people who are coming in who want to break the rules and want to innovate as well.

But you need the groundwork first.

And that is made by the people with experience.

True.

But if I want to exploit that, if I want to make you work 12 hours or 16 hours consistently, right?

I don't want the person who's going to catch me on that on day one.

That's right.

That's right.

You know, like maybe on day five or six, the 30 year old might say, Hey, I think we're not.

But the person who knows better is going to say, Oh, wait a minute.

We need to make these, you know, we're going to do 12 hours and I need to be paid at this much and I need to have this kind of breaks and they don't want to deal with that.

Or they're afraid.

Well, you know, if they're older, they're probably going to get hurt.

Let's say it's a show that involves a lot of dancing or movement.

I may be better prepared to take care of my body because I've been doing it for so long.

But I think, Oh no, they're older.

They're going to get hurt.

And it's not true.

But that's just, you know, youth obsessed society.

Does this make you angry?

And if so, how do you manage?

It doesn't make me angry.

I don't rely on it anymore.

I think if I had to rely on it more, I might be more frustrated.

It makes me more resigned to do my own thing and make my own rules.

Great.

This is where I rarely work in those kind of environments anymore.

I mostly do things for myself.

Like I'm mostly hiring myself out or getting myself, my bands hired or contracted.

So it doesn't matter.

When you hear jazz, nobody cares if I'm 30 or 80 or 12.

They don't care.

Like, in fact, sometimes it's actually better if you're older because then the songs have

more gravitas.

You know, if I'm singing, save your love for me.

It doesn't work if I'm too young.

I need someone who's been through a little bit of life to sing at last.

At last.

And I'm 18.

I'm like, no, there's no, you need a little.

At last.

A driver's license.

Exactly.

But yeah, I do think there's a little bit of sexism involved, you know, for women.

Cause you know, it's about the beauty and the sex appeal.

And apparently as women get older, your beauty or your sex appeal is diminished.

Not because of your actual physical looks, but what it implies is that your better days

are past.

Well, sure.

If you want to prey upon someone younger who may not know how to spot your bullshit.

Yeah.

I think it just, it all goes together.

So I asked that question about anger in particular or whatever emotion, but mainly anger, because

I've learned more and more in life that the, the more I'm able to feel anger and say, I see

you anger.

Great.

That's it.

It stops there.

I lead better in my life without letting that anger influence me, letting that anger

get ahold of me in a society that sometimes is going to give me a black and Spanish man.

Yeah.

A lot of things that I didn't ask for.

Right.

Stereotypes.

Right.

Assumptions.

Well, now we're, now we're back to the African-American slash black American thing.

And that I can say is an, is an anger issue for me because I, I don't like the term African-American

because I feel like it's too broad and it glosses over native black people's experience

here in this country.

There's no getting around it.

We're here because of slavery.

So if I'm from Nigeria, I'm Nigerian American, right?

Uh, if you say African-American, you know how many countries are in Africa?

What does that tell you?

It doesn't tell you anything.

That journey, that connection has been lost forever.

That's just the truth.

And I don't like glossing over it or making it seem okay by going, well, they're African-American.

Well, really?

Where?

Cause I, but what I am is a black American.

The color bar was set up here.

It has been established here.

That's how it was set up.

It's ugly, but that's the truth.

And as long as there's a white America, there's a black America.

Because of that, black Americans have contributed greatly to this land that didn't always respect

them and love them back.

Right.

You're right.

So I'm proud of that.

I want to say I'm a black America.

There's so much that we've contributed.

That's what I am.

It's a good thing.

There's nothing shameful or negative about it.

God bless Africa and all the countries within it.

I respect it.

I wish I knew.

I wish my dad's dad's dad could know what tribe that was from.

Some people are lucky enough to be able to trace that.

How are they going to know?

By and large, most people don't.

It was cut off for a reason, you know?

So, okay.

Then it starts here.

Damn it.

We helped built it greatly.

I'm going to claim it.

Yeah.

The first time you said that to me, I said to myself, I'm adopting that.

Because I agree wholeheartedly in so many ways.

What part of Africa?

Right.

I don't know anything about the tribes from before.

Why would I even lean into that?

I can't give anything about that.

But I can't talk about being black in this country.

Absolutely.

I know what that feels like every day of my life.

Right.

I don't know anything about the other side.

Right.

And I can learn about all the tribes and countries on the West Coast.

And there's value in that.

But that doesn't give me my complete inherent identity.

Establish here what our ancestors have been through on this soil.

And everybody who survived.

That's something.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it's a lot.

It's deep.

And it's horrific.

And it's beautiful.

And it's painful.

But what do we say?

What comes out of the dark places?

What comes out of the...

Sunlight.

Yes.

Like, there's so much in that.

So I claim that because there's no shying away from it.

There's no glossing over it.

There's no making that how we got here pretty.

It's not pretty.

Yeah.

You know?

And that's okay.

We're here now.

We'll see.

So that being said, I've spent majority of my life going places and recognizing things

that I had to psychologically make a rule for myself that no one taught me and that is not

expected and that nobody talks about.

On average, I go somewhere, at least one older white woman is going to stare at me and going

to keep their eye on me.

That's just the way it goes.

And if I speak to them, they're going to be nasty to me in some capacity.

Yeah.

That's just the way it goes.

Yeah.

So I accept it.

Right.

I expect it and accept it in some capacity.

Do you have unspoken tools that you've learned being who you are?

Oh my gosh.

The skin you're in?

Yes.

It's funny because you said that you accept it because one of my words was going to be acceptance.

And that's not to lay over on something, but to accept where people are at.

A lot of times it doesn't have to do with you.

You are the excuse they're using for where they are in life.

Just accept that they're where they're at and remember it's not about you.

That's the first thing.

The second thing is grace.

I've really learned how to have grace and forgiveness because sometimes those same people that have

made me feel that way, as time goes on and we get to know each other, will show themselves

to me, reveal themselves to me and be beautiful people.

And I realize, oh, their insecurity and their fear, the way they grew up, it's the opposite

side.

It's no different than the way I grew up.

They know what they know.

And they need to have that interaction with me on the regular before they can let their

guard down and see who I am as a human being.

And I can do the same for them and just have grace that they weren't there yet or that I

was maybe holding onto something.

I would say acceptance, grace.

And third is pride.

That's the third.

Just having pride in who you are and yourself as a person, as a black person, as a black woman.

And that when people may try to make you feel small or even if they're not intending it,

that you don't belong or you don't fit somewhere, that you remember that deep down pride that

you have, that you are more than enough.

Like you come from greatness and from people who can survive.

And those three things help me navigate any situation I'm in.

That's beautifully said.

Yeah.

Thank you for sharing that.

Oh, you guys, thanks for asking.

Just to wrap up here, can you tell us what's one takeaway that you have for the person listening?

You get to decide who you are.

Lean into that.

Pay attention to the things that bring you joy.

That will help you discover who you are.

If you're still questioning, if you're not sure you are enough, find your joy and be who

you want to be, not who others expect you to be.

Beautiful.

Fantastic.

That's it.

That's very, very beautiful.

I know there's going to be so many people who want to connect with you and hire you and

book you.

If you're not already booked up, how can they find you?

How can they reach you?

Well, first, let me say I'm terrible with social media.

I really am.

I hate it.

But you can find me on Instagram under standardmel.

And also on my website, melcollins.com or standardmel.com.

Like jazz standards, standard, and then M-E-L for Mel Collins.

Perfect.

And we'll link that in the show notes as well.

Precisely.

Would you do us an honor and sing us out of the episode?

We have to hear your voice.

Sure, I will.

We're going to choose a really, really old song because it's public domain.

And it's really old.

Our producer thanks you.

And I'll do it kind of slow.

After you've gone and left me crying.

After you've gone, there's no denying.

You'll feel blue.

You'll feel sad.

You'll miss the dearest pal you ever had.

There'll come a time.

Now don't forget it.

There'll come a time when you'll regret it.

Someday when you grow lonely.

Your heart will break like mine.

And you'll want me only.

After you've gone.

After you've gone away.

If this episode spoke to you, take a moment and send it to someone else who might need it.

That's the best way to spread these conversations to the people who need them the most.

And if you want to keep exploring with us, make sure to follow Beauty in the Break wherever you get your podcasts.

We'll see you next time.

Beauty in the Break is created and hosted by Foster Wilson and Cesar Cardona.

Our executive producer is Glenn Milley.

Original music by Cesar and the Clew