We Are All Magic (And Crystals Can Prove It) with Ceci Greco

What if the most magical thing in the universe isn't out there somewhere…it's you? Foster and Cesar sit down with Los Angeles-based jewelry designer Ceci Greco for a conversation about crystals, magic, creative entrepreneurship, and what it actually means to excavate your truest self from everything life has layered on top of it. Together they explore what it means to build a creative business on your own terms, stay true to your artistic self, and recognize the rare and irreplaceable thing that was inside you all along. If you've ever wondered whether you can be both the artist and the CEO, both the dreamer and the one who gets things done, this episode was made for you.

In this episode they explore: 

• Can you build a successful company without being a dick? 
• Ceci’s peak life experience that made her weep
• What does the way a crystal forms inside the earth have to do with who you really are? 

Ceci Greco

• IG: @cecigrecojewelry
• Check out her jewelry at cecigreco.com

If this episode spoke to you, you will love Question Everything You’ve Inherited with Brandon Kyle Goodman. You can also watch the episodes on YouTube.

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Reach out to the show—send an email or voice note to beautyinthebreakpod@gmail.com and be sure to follow on Instagram and TikTok. 

Cesar Cardona:

• Receive his newsletter Insights That Matter
• Get guided meditation from Cesar on his website 
• Listen to music from Cesar + The Clew on Apple Music and Spotify

Foster Wilson:

• Buy her poetry book Afternoon Abundance
• Learn about her postpartum services
• Receive her newsletter Foster’s Village

Created & Hosted by: Cesar Cardona and Foster Wilson

Executive Producer: Glenn Milley

Editor: Bessie Fong 

Special Guest: Ceci Greco

This episode is brought to you by Arlene Thornton & Associates

Transcript

You know, I want to build a very successful company. Can you do it when you're not a dick?
I am not someone who's into crystals at all, but if it's symbolic and representative of the awe and reverence that I can have for myself.
How did my life unfold in such a way that I got to be the first hands in the clay in the mountain that touched this thing, you know?
Like, if that's not magic, then.
Welcome to Beauty and the Break.
Here we explore stories of how barriers are broken, both within ourselves and within the world.
I'm Foster Wilson.
And I'm Cesar Cardona.
This is a home for you, questioning the rules you inherited and choosing your own path forward.
We are here with you on this messy and courageous journey. Let's dive in.
Welcome to Beauty and the Break. Thank you all for being here. Ceci Greco.
Hello.
How are you today?
I'm fantastic. How are you?
I'm doing well. Thanks for being here.
Thank you guys for having me.
For all of you listening here, Ceci is a Los Angeles-based jewelry designer whose work is born from a deep passion for the natural science and a reverence for the intrinsic non-material value of objects.
Thank you so much for being here.
Thank you, guys. I'm really excited.
This is going to be fantastic.
A side note, I walked into the tattoo shop that I go to, North Hollywood Tattoos.
That's what it's called, right? North Hollywood Tattoos.
Yeah. No-ho, maybe.
Yeah. No-ho tattoo.
Yeah.
I walked in there. I was going to get another tattoo and I forgot where the entrance was and I just popped my head into a shop. I go, there's no tattoo machines here. There's just jewelry here. And you were sitting there at the table.
It's so funny. I didn't realize it was an accident that you walked through the door. That's great. I love that.
Fast forward to 30 minutes later, you and I having a conversation about non-dualism and the philosophy of life. And I was like, I got a tattoo appointment. I gotta go. And since then, every single time you and I have a conversation, I am lit up. I feel vitalized about the world. I feel seen in a lot of ways because you and I see the world in the same way. And I just wanted you to be on this show because I want you to share that sort of same thing that I feel in the world also.
Oh, that makes me really happy. And also, I mean, it speaks to me as not being the best businesswoman because if you walk through the door and you want to have like a philosophical conversation, I put everything down.
So maybe not the best quality, but also, yeah, I was very excited to just have another opportunity to have some more of those conversations. And yeah, I'm glad you wandered in by accident. That's great.
Damn right.
Well, we're so glad you're here, Cece. Can you tell us what's beautiful in your world today?
Oh, gosh, I think it's this. I think it's being here. That may be the low-hanging fruit answer.
What? No.
A little obvious.
Sound bite, social clip. She loves us.
We love it.
Thank you so much. Thank you very much.
No, it is, especially because I have never been on a podcast before. And so I'm a little bit like stretching into today's experience, which I have found since opening a business is like, yeah, the most exciting thing you can do is just like that thing that you're not.
You're not quite ready to do or you have never done before and you have very little context for. And so, yeah, so I'm very excited to be in my new, yeah, in a different little zone.
You're at your growth edge.
Yes, yeah.
Yeah, and you're pushing through that. I love that.
Thank you guys for bringing me there.
We love to have somebody who's never been on a podcast before. It's perfect.
Which surprises me, by the way, because you speak so well. You come across so well. On your social media, on your Instagram, you will do direct talk to Cameron. You have so much good things to say.
I do have a lot to say, that's for sure.
I thought you were going to say good things to say. I was like, yeah, at least she knows.
I do also that, yeah. I hold my own opinion highly, so that probably comes through.
Well, you are in the field of jewelry, but you also work with, I'm going to say this the wrong way here, but stones, crystals as well, right? How would you call that? Natural minerals?
Yeah, I mean, I came out of the world of gem and mineral collecting from like the sort of geeky science angle of like field collecting and mineralogy. Yeah. Geeking out on fossils and meteorites and all these cool weird things. That world, especially in LA, dovetails into the sort of metaphysical world, which originally coming from a science background.
I was kind of like, what do you mean this crystal does X, Y, Z? I came to understand it differently through really an understanding of like crystallography.
I mean, if you, the way that a crystal radio or a crystal watch works, they hold frequencies. So actually the crystal lattice and the organization of those molecules does hold a frequency, which holds energy.
And so once you start looking at it that way, it's not really healy-feely at all. Still, I stay sort of more in the general reverence area than I do in the like prescriptive rose courses for your heart or this is for that.
Because there's plenty of people that really focus on that. And that's, that's cool. That's great work. That's not really how I resonate with gems and minerals, but they just inspire so much awe and give so much perspective in the world and the world we're on.
And this sort of impossibility of earth, you just from the, you know, just the most basic things we assume, how miraculous they are. And so I think when you hold that and bring that into whatever, whatever it is, whether it's the jewelry or however you approach it. Yeah.
I see it in how you run your business and how you do your work online on social media, because it's not just, I'm here doing this thing. This is my product I have. Please buy it. Like you will talk through the philosophy of what it means in this world for you. It made me ask, write down the very first question for you is what has the natural minerals of the world and the study of it taught you about your life?
Oh, wow. Okay. That's a good question. And I don't even know which angle to take because I feel like I am, it's one of the sort of axiomatic or multiple pieces of axiomatic information that I've like my worldview has grown up on top of. I remember my dad saying when I was really young, everything around you has either been mined or farmed.
And so it's such a fun exercise to sit in the room and go, okay, all right, this, mine are farmed, you know? And then you start thinking, gosh, oh, wow. We just live in this world of assumptions that is based on all the, I don't know, just the history of civilization before us that has taken just the raw materials of the earth and made, you know, built up, you know, these cities and everything else.
And then pretty soon it's thought forms and it's all of our weird cultural, you know, eccentricities and all of this stuff that we start, we live in assumptions, but really just get down to the, like the dirt has so much.
Life.
Yeah.
Universe. It's an entire universe living here.
Yeah. Yeah. There's so much in it. Like slow down and look, look at the small thing to see the big picture, I guess. So that's part of.
Right. Right. And, you know, the, the point that your pops made about everything here has been mined or farmed, which is also an implication that somebody worked.
Yes.
Somebody did some labor for it.
Yes.
And that puts us back in accord with this industrialized society that asks the question are, how are the people treated who are giving us this beautiful myriad of existence that we have.
Yeah. Everything.
In your business, and I'm going to say this wrong, but please correct me. You work with fair trade migrant farmers. Is that right?
Fair trade. Tell it to me.
So there is one of the stones that I use repeatedly in work. It's called moss agate, and it's from an area in India. Basically, where these geological occurrences of the mineral are, it's, it's also on active agricultural land. And so they've basically come up with this. It's basically like a form of permaculture where it's, it's known that this valuable mineral is there under the ground, but it's also being used for agriculture.
So they'll go in after they till the soil. And then at that time, they'll see, okay, where's like a good place for us to dig, go in, get what they can, replace the topsoil and go back to the agriculture during the growing season. So it doesn't actually destroy anything. There's, you know, economic growth for the area that wouldn't be there otherwise. And I mean, there's a lot of minerals underground. And so sometimes people are like, oh, are they going to run out? They're probably not going to run out. But we need to take care of the land as, as we're getting it out.
Like you're saying the labor that goes into it has to be rewarded. And then the land that we're taking from has to be, you know, respected. And so that's, that is one of the like great sort of case studies or a scenario where they really figured out something that works. You know, what you're saying is because in a lot of places when they're mining these minerals, there is just total, as we expect, abuse of the system and the land and the people.
Yeah. It's a lot of what you would picture, unfortunately. Like I'll say often, like everyone knows about conflict diamonds, but just imagine that that applies to pretty much everything else they're digging out unless otherwise stated.
And if someone's not marketing about it, then it's probably not the case because if they could market about it, they would. So yeah, there's a lot of, and understandably, there's a lot of secrecy in the mining industry because you can't move a mine.
You know, when a deposit is found, depending on just all the circumstances in that area, someone, you know, may have good reason to not tell someone where it is, you know, so nobody can claim jumpers, all that's real.
Especially in other parts of the world where they're primarily, you know, a lot of the economic gain that you have in underdeveloped places is just taking natural resources.
Yeah. Yeah.
Africa had like gold under the ground or something like that.
Wait, yeah.
When I was a kid, right?
There's a ton of gold. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
This is information you've learned over time of working and doing this, but how did you get into this from the beginning?
How did I, oh, how did I get like involved in gems and minerals and jewelry?
Again, I grew up like my parents were both kind of like geeks about gems and minerals.
And so it was this hobby sort of thing that I grew up around.
Yeah.
And it pulled me in.
I mean, part of it actually was because if you've ever been to like a gem show, it's some of the only remaining like quirkiness in the business world that I've found.
There's a lot of just like some couple has a business, you know?
And so I was never comforted in like the idea of going into the corporate world or any of that.
And it was like academia was like at some point, yeah, I was just like, okay, let's talk about things and never get anything done, you know?
And so I saw, yeah.
No shade to the professors out there.
Not at all.
But...
I mean, that probably would have been my other path.
If you can't do, teach.
I love educators.
I love the intellectual world.
But for you, you needed to do.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's what it is.
Yeah.
And I saw that area and I saw those, the people that sort of worked in that area.
A lot of them have that reverence, you know?
A lot of them have this sort of context of where things are coming out of the ground.
And there is enough small scale mining going on that, yeah, that you meet those people.
And I just, I was charmed by the world.
We live in a time right now where at least maybe because we live in a bubble of Los Angeles, but the crystal world is everywhere.
Yeah.
Please, please.
I don't even got to ask the question.
Go ahead.
What is the, what is it, what makes it so popular at this juncture in this society for one?
And two, how much of it is effective in the person who's using it versus how much of it is them believing that this appeals and is bringing something out of them?
There's no wrong way either because both of them are valid.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I, as I said before, you know, it's hard science around like frequencies being held by crystalline structures.
They also use rubies and lasers because it's like the only thing that can organize the beam, I guess, well enough.
So there's a lot of, I mean, there's tons of applications for these minerals.
And in tech, it's like, we know the material properties of different chemicals and elements and minerals, you know, those make huge difference in whether or not, you know, this equipment that we're recording on can work.
So I don't want to undermine, I don't want to be like, science says, you know, these things can't, like, they basically have magic powers, you know?
But then, I mean, it seems like just the natural world itself has magic powers.
Constantly.
When you start studying science, you're like, wait, that's just what?
It's magic.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
What I'm trying to get to with the question is how do we, is walking that fine line between the two sides.
Yes.
Because I've had people who are biotech engineers will explain to me the way our DNA works inside of us.
And I go, that doesn't sound like fucking magic to you.
I'm like, no, no, it's just chemical.
Are you kidding me?
One thing just seeks out another one thing inside your whole body.
And when it does, it drags it to another place.
Wild.
That's not magic to you, my friend.
What about your brain, babe?
What's your brain made of?
Brain?
Oh, my gosh.
The brain, it's an, what, eight pound meat sack covered in water and electricity at every moment consistently.
Like, take your electricity and put it in your bathtub with you.
See what happens.
Yeah.
But this thing just runs in your skull constantly.
Constantly.
And it is always aware and awake.
Even when you're deep sleeping, it's still moving around.
And then it knocks you out at the end of the day.
Here's the tangent.
You started this, Foster.
It is, at the end of the day, it's like, all right, you're shut off.
And if you get bored, I'm going to show you some movies over a couple hours called Dreams.
You're going to star in them.
You're going to have no idea what's going to happen, but you'll star in them nonetheless.
When you wake up, you should write them down.
Because if you don't, you're going to forget them.
Too bad.
It's magic.
It's magic.
It's magic.
Magic.
So going back to the question, I wonder how that is for you.
How do you walk that line?
Because...
Well, I think it's also about how we're defining magic.
Because I used to say, C.S. Lewis talks about, if you say there's no mechanism by which a thing
happens, then it's magic.
Right?
So if something is supernatural, I think that's the word he's discussing, is when something
is supernatural, you're claiming that it behaves outside of the laws of the natural world.
Right.
I think a more advanced or sophisticated way to think of it is to say, maybe the natural world
and its rules is bigger than we thought.
Thank you.
There we go.
So we are calling it magic.
And the reason we here want to say, no, but it's magic.
We're just trying to say, please don't repeat these mechanisms without realizing how wonderful
they are.
You know?
Without...
And it's the awe, maybe, that we're trying to bring with it, is say, no, this is awe-inspiring.
And if you don't feel awe when you're explaining whatever this guy was explaining to you, then
you're missing something.
Right?
And it doesn't have to be supernatural or outside of science to be incredibly awe-inspiring.
Exactly.
Now imagine somebody describing what my friend described to me about molecules in our body
200 years ago.
They would think that he was out of his mind.
Right?
And now we have the information that has to expand to meet the mystery of this universe,
this experience that we have.
Albert Einstein talked about relativity.
And then one of his enemies, quote unquote, Ernst Gerke was his name, would completely obliterate
him.
He'd make fun of him.
All of these things, because his aim was, it doesn't fit the science to fit method.
Doesn't fit science.
Sorry, it doesn't fit science.
Therefore, reject.
Instead of investigating.
We clearly know who was right, quote unquote, right in this field now.
I listened to somebody having a conversation about what crystals do.
I have personally not ever felt the effects that someone has mentioned.
That doesn't mean that it's not real.
It just doesn't appeal to me.
It hasn't hit me in that level yet.
Yeah.
And I think being, I mean, because you're a practicing Buddhist, right?
And so I do think that whatever method we take to the stillness and the concentration and
the sort of awareness, you know, a lot of times people are using crystals in conjunction
with these sorts of practices, right?
If you're meditating with a crystal, then you're meditating, you know?
And I'm not saying the crystal isn't doing anything, but I'm also, I'm a real sort of
pragmatist.
And it's kind of like, start with the basics because I've definitely experienced, I've witnessed
people like, oh, what crystal will do?
It's like, no, you got to handle, like you got stuff you got to be handling before you're
asking the crystal to do this, you know?
So, I mean, everything and different things work for different people.
Yeah.
Damn right.
Damn right.
Yeah.
So, so take me back to where it was.
You're getting, you want to start the business.
Your family was in the same field.
So you want to start this.
What were some of the challenges, some of the barriers that you had to break through
to get to where you are now?
The barriers that I broke through to get here.
I have worked in this industry for most of my adult career.
One of the things though is there's not like big, there's not like big corporations where
you can move up the ladder in, in this world, or at least not in the version of it I was
in.
I mean, I guess I could be like in, if I'd gotten a degree in geology, I could be working
for one of these horrible mining operations that I don't want to work for anyway.
But no, the world I was in, it's a lot of small business owners.
And so I just worked at the same place for like 15 years.
I worked for the same, the same company.
It was small.
There was nowhere to go.
And one of the things that inspired me to start my own business really is these, it was
a little maybe tangent, but these two archetypes of like the thoughtful, observant, competent,
compassionate, hardworking employee.
And then like this like asshole, sociopath, narcissist who owns a business, you know?
And I like, throughout my life, I feel like I meet this thoughtful, observant, whatever,
competent person.
And they're like, oh, my boss, you know?
Like I'm holding the place together.
And they're right.
They are holding it together, right?
But like, why?
Why are we holding it together for them?
Yeah.
Yes.
Yes.
And so part of me starting a business was just this experiment.
Really, I'm still trying to find out like, can I, knowing that I am one of these like observant,
thoughtful, deliberate, slow kind of people, can I run a business?
Like, can I still be successful?
Just the idea of having employees was so uncomfortable to me when I first opened the business.
I still, I don't have anyone full time, but like, to be like, I can't have an employee.
What will I call them?
You know, an employee?
That's so demeaning.
Like, I, and so this idea of like, yeah, I don't know in, in any industry, you know,
you see a lot of the people that are working for the boss are actually incredibly competent.
And maybe if they weren't like scared or they weren't so like self-conscious, then they would
be able to like go out and start a meaningful business that was really about something bigger
than just, you know, paying the bills and feeding the coffers.
So.
Well, then what was your way to determine that you're going to go from working in this business
to being self-employed here?
That's a massive leap, by the way.
Yeah.
Well, I quit first.
I definitely just quit and was like, let's see.
What happened?
Why did you quit?
I quit because I was having heart palpitations on my way to work.
Oh.
Every day.
Yeah.
And I was like, you know what?
If I had any friend that told me that, I would be like, what are you doing?
But you know, it's funny.
The first time I decided to do like a pop-up afterwards, after I had quit, I was having
heart palpitations on the way to the pop-up.
Oh, it's like a Pavlovian kind of thing?
No, but I was just like, oh no, it's me.
I'm the problem.
It was never the job.
It was me.
And like, now I understand.
Like, no, when you do new things, it's scary.
It's fine.
But yeah, I was ready to take a leap.
I had, well, and I had told you the story.
My father had passed away and I had already quit.
I hadn't told anyone.
Also, I'd been estranged from most of my family for quite a while.
So just that was like, oh, we're all coming back together.
We're all, you know, trying to figure things out without a very strong base.
And we inherited as sort of a group, a house, which was in great disrepair.
And we were going to fix it up.
We were going to like, you know, we kept calling it, we're going to save the old folks home.
It's like the movie where there's a thing that has to happen.
We're like, that's what we're going to do.
But it just, it wasn't going, it was not going the way that I wanted it.
And I realized that I was controlling it.
And I realized it was another version of the job that I had had for many years,
where I really wanted to do something my way, but I was too scared.
And I had constantly been embedded in other people's situations or situations where other
people were kind of pulling the strings and it wasn't aligned with what I wanted.
And so I think that I had a breaking point there where I was going to pour
everything that I had into, into that project.
And I was like, nobody else wants this.
Like I, I want to save the old folks home.
Everybody else says they want to, right.
But I wasn't seeing it.
And so it was the great journey to, to go out on my own was really just asking myself like,
okay, what happens when it's you?
What happens when there's no one for you to point at or use as an excuse when you're scared?
Well, I can't do it anyway because this person, you know, and I'm still,
I'm still figuring that out.
But we always are.
We're always figuring it out.
But that sounds like your fucking moment.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That sounds like your fucking moment.
Yeah.
I would say the catalyst is your father, it's not father, correct?
No, father.
Father passing away.
But you had already quit the job before that.
Yeah.
I was getting ready.
Something was brewing under there.
It was brewing.
Like I said, I'm very deliberate.
So, I mean, I was gonna, I was, I brew for a long time and then I try to know what
I'm doing when I'm, once I'm ready to do it.
At some point you obviously just have to take the leap.
I knew I was going to do something else, but also there's that cocoon, right?
Like when you've been in a situation that hasn't been particularly healthy and you're
now moving into a new arena for yourself, you also just need to kind of like nurture yourself
for a minute and say, what do I want?
I don't, I don't know because I've really been in sort of a survival mode for so long
that, um, so I had to ask all those questions too.
Yeah.
And I would just say here you, like there's so many people who are in jobs with employers,
bosses that are, as you said, maybe narcissistic, maybe controlling, maybe an asshole or some
other version of just like, my boss sucks, right?
Yeah.
And, but it is, it is easier to stay in that position and to keep putting the blame on someone
else and to be like, it's their fault than it is to go out on your own and make that leap
and do it yourself.
That's the really big challenging decision.
I think one of the things that comes up subconsciously for me is like, if I have put the blame on this
external boss all the time, does that mean I'm going to become that person?
Like how did they become that person?
We talked about this a lot.
I talked about this constantly.
With like presidents and like how people, is it the job that turns people that way?
Like they become vindictive or not vindictive, but cold to the, so many corporations.
They turn against their original cause too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a big one.
Yeah.
So I think our internal fear about leaving a job like that, that may be giving us physical
discomfort, physical pain, maybe even disease in our bodies.
But the, the, we've put this idea of being a boss, like in our shadow where we're like,
I don't want to bring that to the surface because if that becomes me, then I'm going to become
that person.
And so it'll be easier to stay right here and like have heart palpitation.
Yeah.
Totally.
Not to mention what's familiar as well.
Yeah.
You know, the devil, you know, quote unquote, the devil, you know, is going to be much more
familiar than the mystery of the darkness of the abyss of what you're going to dive into.
Yeah.
And I have gained a lot of respect for bosses, you know, and business owners.
And, and I always, I always respected like the, the person who went out there and did it.
But I, some of the things like you're saying, I'm like, oh, that's how that happens is that
you're disrespected in this way or you're crossed in this way.
And now your trust has been eroded.
And so you're going to treat everyone this, this way moving forward.
And, and it is.
So I'm still, I feel like I'm in this experiment of like, I know I want to build a very successful
company partially just because I'm curious, like, can you do it when you're not a dick?
Like what's that going to look like?
And if it doesn't work, okay, it doesn't work, but I'm more interested in finding out than
anything else actually.
That's so cool.
And did you face uphill battles with regards to, to gender in this career in particular?
You know, what's interesting in this, in this gender roles in, in jewelry are to some
extent, like to be expected, like, you know, any, anywhere where there's money, usually men
own the businesses.
Right.
So, so there's that.
But there's really, I was thinking about this.
There's two very clear roles you can play as a woman.
That's a jewelry designer.
If we just take that title.
Right.
And there is the boss bitch who doesn't actually make anything with her hands.
Right.
We'll do a stereotype.
Right.
She just like pulls images off the internet and brings them downtown.
And what she's really doing is branding, you know?
And then the other, on the other end, it's this woman who sits at her bench and she makes
everything by hand, all herself.
She doesn't get any help at all.
Maybe she's more crafty.
It's considered more like in terms of business, it's maybe not as respected.
Right.
And I realized it's like any, any roles where you're like, wait, why do, why does it look
like those are two options?
And there's like nothing in the middle, you know, because obviously those are not inherent
to women who want to make jewelry.
Like those, those roles have been cast.
And so I've experienced, like I, there was a design that's a little bit complicated that
I fabricated.
It's a bracelet with some hinges and stuff.
And I realized that I should probably outsource the production and I brought it downtown and
I was faced multiple, multiple men that were like, where did you get this?
Like I made it.
What do you mean?
Where did I get it?
I'm asking you to produce it for my jewelry line.
Clearly I made it.
They're like, you, you can't make this, you know, um, because the assumption, but it's
not because there aren't tons of women that work at benches and make cool stuff, but I
don't think they're necessarily the same kind of woman that goes downtown and tries to start
a business.
Oh, interesting.
Because yeah, we've been told to pick a lane.
Yeah.
We've been told to pick a lane.
And I think what's interesting is of course we have.
And of course we do, because it's like, you have to defend your position as a woman, right?
Either way, you're either like, I am too a boss or like, I am too, you know, I know how
to use tools and I made this myself.
And I, yes, I do know how to hook up my own oxygen tank.
Thank you.
You know?
And so it's like, there's so much energy put into defending one role or the other that
we haven't, I don't know.
And I'm sure there are examples out there, but I have come into these two stereotypes and
realized sort of after the fact, oh, I, I'm, I'm just trying to find a middle ground, you
know?
Yeah.
And see where that strong woman is.
Cause we have plenty of examples in business of men that were both in charge, ran a business
and also got their hands dirty and one didn't make them less of the other, you know?
Turn the TV on every day.
Yeah.
Any, any, any commercial you'll find, any, any politician who consistently with the sleeves
rolled up in the commercial.
Yeah, exactly.
Right.
Like the lawyer who's like ready to, they roll their sleeves up on billboards.
I'm like, they're doing dishes?
What are they about to do?
I don't understand what this means.
Yeah.
I know exactly what you're saying from there.
I've assumed foster, you probably have some of those similar themes of being assumed that
you have to be either this way or that way or, and you can't do both.
And if you happen to try to do both, you're going to be judged for being too far one or
too far the other.
I'm thinking of every artist I know.
It's like, you're either an artist or you're a business person.
How do you do both?
And the thing that I see artists struggle with is that idea of marketing themselves.
Yeah.
It's really, really hard in this, in the, you know, as a business person,
for a long time, I was an actor.
And so for you're an actor, you're an artist, then you have an agent or a manager to do the,
like the contract work and to be the representative and be the, like the asshole that represents
you and all this stuff.
But then artists so often have to manage that manager and that, and that agent because they
aren't actually working for them in the same way.
So I honestly think, I don't know, I think it would be cool if artists could actually represent
themselves.
Yeah.
But the idea of coming onto set the way I think about it as an actor is like, you come
onto set and there's something against your contract there that is like, they're going
over time or they didn't have the wardrobe you needed or whatever it is.
You then have to like call your agent to get that fixed because if you're like, oh, I needed
this, you look like an asshole and hard to work with and maybe you won't get hired again.
Oh, yeah.
And so to bridge that gap is very, very difficult.
That's why we, like, I feel like that's why we off source it so that that person can be
the bad guy.
And I can just be like, no, I'm very amenable.
Like everything's cool.
I'm easy to work with.
And some level that's effective and helpful because you can separate yourself from it and
stay in it.
But then it's also turned into what you're saying now.
Pick a lane.
You can only have one of those lanes.
As when I published my book, Afternoon Abundance, I wrote all of the poems of that book as the
artist, right?
And I didn't let myself go into editor mode or publisher mode or anything like that.
When I, like, I sort of ended my writing period, closed the door to that and then, like, put
on my editor hat, then put on my publisher hat and I took it through production and could
be, like, you know, tough with my artist self.
That one doesn't make it or this one needs some edits or whatever.
But I had to really, like, put both hats on to be able to get that out the door.
And I had to switch.
I had to code switch, essentially, which a lot of people do.
Yes, but that's so powerful.
I feel like in my experience that, like, you do the art thing and then when you actually,
like, trust yourself to look at it with a different eye, like, it's so, I don't know,
it's just very powerful because it's different from the voice that's like, everything you do
sucks, you know?
It's like actually looking at it and saying, okay, well, I think it's a cool design, but,
like, is the product sellable?
And, like, will anybody else care?
And, like, asking just real questions.
And then you're like, oh, wow, I like my relationship between those versions of me just got better,
you know, because we went there.
And it's so gendered because it really is not something that I see male artists up against
in the same way, necessarily.
And so, but as many people say, including you and JJ Brake, we contain multitudes, right?
We can be an artist and also a manager and also, you know, the CEO and the publisher.
And we can be this, you're doing this right now, walking the line between what I, I don't
know, the artist and the boss bitch.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
This is what you're trying to be.
The artist bitch, whatever.
Yeah, right.
The artist bitch.
Yeah.
Yeah.
See what we can do.
I'm noticing a theme in everything we're talking about here.
These two, what seem to be opposites from one into the other.
The boss bitch and the one who's doing the dirty work in hands.
The artist and the agent.
The science and the supernatural.
The male role and the feminine role.
We're having this blending of these two things, which one is always humorous to me because
I am a non-dualist and that conversation, we will get there.
But I do want to say that one of the other things that sticks into all of that, one of
the other things that ties into all of what we're saying here about what seems to be the
opposite, but just earth themselves together, pun intended, earth is the act of the mining.
Digging into this rock until you find this beautiful gym that looks nothing like what
it was hidden inside of.
And that is who we are in every moment of our lives.
I love every story where someone goes into some cave or some tunnel or underwater because
I know it's the metaphor of going in the mystery of the psyche of yourself.
Can you, with elementary words as possible for listeners who don't know this field, can
you walk through what happens when someone goes mining and they unearth something like a
beautiful pyrite piece?
So it depends so much on the actual mineral you're mining, but I can take you guys, I can
take, I can brag a little bit.
Give it to me.
Please.
So a couple of years ago, I got invited to shout out to the Hallelujah Junction Mine in, outside
of Reno, Nevada.
I got with some friends and colleagues of mine at the time, we got invited to this mine
and so it's smoky quartz, what's called scepter formation.
So it'll be like a long, let's show, it's like a long shaft with like a bigger crystal on
the end.
And they're smoky quartz or sometimes amethyst.
It's a famous mine for this kind of production.
So we got to go there.
It's like, it's in the Sierra Nevadas on the side of a mountain.
The way it works there is if you're being taken around by like the guys who usually do
it, they have like a very small like earth mover.
So they scrape the side is what they call it.
Scrape the side of?
So they have like a little part of a mountain where they're digging.
And so they'll scrape the side of the mountain and you'll get like a new exposed earth.
I mean, like a mountain, it could fit in this room, part of like the open surface that we
would be working.
And they'll take chopsticks and they go, they do this for you.
Okay.
They look for these veins of a certain type of clay.
So in this case, this is what is sort of indicative of, there's probably a pocket here.
Crystals often form in a vug or a pocket, which means there's like an air bubble, gaseous
bubble of some sort inside of molten liquid, liquid rock, et cetera.
And the crystals start precipitating out of solution from the exterior.
So they grow from the outside in, which is what like a geode.
When you think of a geode, you crack it open and you can see the crystals came from the
outside in.
So a lot of crystals form in a similar sort of situation in a little bubble, in a little
womb.
The bubble starts, which adds the heat that's inside of it from the natural gases, right?
And that precipitation, that water itself is what makes it start to look like a crystal.
So the water is seeping away or going elsewhere.
The crystals are actually, it's the minerals that are dissolved because of the hyper heat.
Got it.
They're dissolved in the water.
And so then they start to precipitate out, which means the water is going away and they're
crystallizing.
Okay.
So, and a lot of those pockets in this specific place, they'll be clay filled now.
So it's like whatever, I actually don't know the exact geology of that.
Some of them also, these pockets, they formed so, so long ago that other geological stuff
has happened, you know?
And so sometimes you'll get in and the entire pocket is broken because there was seismic action
after it grew.
So no humans ever touched it, but it was broken by the earth, you know, after growing from
the earth.
So we don't think about things like that.
Right.
But so anyway.
And how long does that, how long is something like this, for example?
So specifically those are, I think in the like not quite millions, hundreds of thousands
of years.
But I mean, there's, there's really, really old minerals.
It depends.
Just waiting to be on earth.
Oh yeah.
They're just hanging out.
Quote on quote waiting.
Waiting.
Yeah.
Right.
They don't care.
They don't care.
They're not waiting on us.
They just do.
Not at all.
Take it to us.
CC my God.
Oh, hello.
Okay.
So yes.
So continue.
Yeah.
So they will, these, the guys who run the mine to help us out would use their little
chopsticks to stick into the earth to sort of show you where there's probably a vein
to follow.
And then you're just using rudimentary equipment, like hand tools.
Hand tools.
Okay.
Yeah.
Gloves.
And just kind of digging in and seeing what happens.
And you have to have patience and you have to have whatever.
And I actually, on this trip, I pulled out a specimen that got published in what's a super
cool, the mineralogical record.
It's like a super cool publication in the geeky gem and mineral world.
But it was a, it was actually a cross, which is pretty wild.
It was in the shape of a cross.
It's the first one that ever came out.
Wow.
So it's like I explained, there's a shaft with the sort of piece on top, but then this
one had a crossbar that had formed.
Wow.
So it would have been like another crystal was just, but it was, and I'm not a mother,
but taking it out, it felt like I, it felt like birthing something.
It's, it was like absolute peak experience of my life.
And one of the, so they kind of said, if you, you know, if you see something really good,
just let us know, like make sure.
And so there was like a holler of like, there's something good here.
And, um, and the guys, cause it is all guys that own that mine were sort of, you know,
there's actually a video of it.
My friend, um, my amazing friend like filmed me taking it out, but they weren't going to
let me take it out because, you know, I'm not a professional minor and they're like, okay.
And so there's even a moment on the tape.
He goes, well, who's, who's going to be the man on this one?
And I turned around and I was like, I think I'm going to be the man.
And then one of the kind, they call him like the pocket whisperer or something.
The guys, he's like, she's done really good.
I mean, she hasn't like, I think she can do it.
Let her do it, you know?
And then I took it out.
But the moment I take it out there, all, everybody's hands are like, hand me that,
hand me that.
Cause it was, you know, valuable.
So that was peak experience.
Yes.
It's like, and then returning, you know, we're flying back from Reno and I'm looking over the,
you know, the mountains thinking, what the fuck are the chances?
Whenever a plane ascends and you realize like the ground just gets, the world gets bigger
and bigger and bigger under you.
And you're like, I'm so tiny.
And then I'm like this, this crystal, it was big, right?
It's this big.
How did, how did my life unfold in such a way that I got to be the first hands in the clay
in the mountain that touched this thing, you know?
Like that, if that's not magic, then, you know, yeah, I quit.
I mean, I did not know this story.
And I asked you this question particularly because it is the exact metaphor for our lives.
It's exactly what we do every day in our lives.
We find something, we get hit up, we get stopped by some block or some barrier in our minds,
in our hearts, by our friends, our family, or whatever it is.
And the moment we decide to be curious and try to find out what's within it is the moment
that we get a step closer to this crystal.
And it's in every single one of us at all times.
That's why we have this show.
Because there's beauty in breaking the thing.
And that barrier is what we break through to find the gem that's within us, that's always
waiting within us.
You, in such a meta way, you turned around and said, how lucky, what have I done in my
life to get myself here?
The metaphorical mining of your existence got you to a physical mining to find a crystal.
It made you look back into that crystal and see yourself and say, wow, I have done something
amazing from within.
I got chills.
And I will share, I will be vulnerable.
That night, I was crying.
And I was actually like, how did I get chosen to pick this thing out of the earth?
You know, like it felt, and whatever, there's so many crystals.
So in a way, it's like, you know, whatever, I found a crystal, right?
But I felt so honored and like, didn't even have the full container for it.
Like it was that emotional.
And, you know, and it is, it's always that other story of like, wow, I went there with
myself.
I went, whatever, you know, I'm letting myself feel the value of this thing and that, yeah,
I was the one who got it.
And so it was, yeah.
I'm going to go on a, on a real big metaphor here.
Okay.
So you described this womb, which I instantly, as a doula, I'm like, oh, hello, I'm here.
Present for this conversation.
Because the metaphor is like, there's a womb full of perfect crystals, right?
And you have unearthed this one.
And it reminds me of my days when I used to go to my family's pig farm and help these baby
pigs be born.
And there was a runt inside that needed support.
And I, I would say support now, I don't know what they would call it then, but I, at eight
years old, put a glove on my arm and iodine solution and would reach up and find the feet
of this little piglet and pull it out and help them get to the, to suckle at the mama pig.
And so here you are pulling this crystal out, right?
And as humans, we are born, this is my opinion, we are born absolutely perfect.
Like we just came from consciousness, right?
We're just absolutely have no idea what the world is that we're in, but we are perfection
in form.
And then over time, we have things that happen to us, right?
In this world with like shame and pain and different kinds of societal programming that
comes upon us.
And we witness it in others.
And we learn, oh, don't do that.
Because if you speak up in class, you might get ostracized by your classmates.
Okay, cool.
So that'll go in my shadow, right?
I won't do that anymore.
I can see it in my own kids.
Like the learning in school that is really happening quite often is the learning how not
to be my full self in the world.
Because like that will be in this group of 30 people like that, that's unsafe, right?
And so it's really sad to me that this is the way that we so often live.
But the beauty of aging and hopefully awareness is that we do eventually get to start to like
scrape away and mine and excavate that pure part of ourselves that's there the whole time
that you're describing, the crystal that's inside.
And it takes different experiences.
Sometimes it takes like a really terrible rock bottom, a loss, a grief, you know, deep grief.
Sometimes it takes just like a new experience, breaking through something, trying something
new, going on a podcast when you never have before, right?
Just like to break through, being like, oh, look at this.
Like I can be seen and be safe.
And I didn't learn that in childhood.
Now I learn it.
And we are just like brushing off all of that dust, but it is work.
They're mining.
We're mining for ourselves.
But then once you have found it, and our work is never done, but once you have found it,
your job is to just really keep it clean, right?
And keep having reverence for it and having that awe.
So I am not someone who is into crystals at all.
In fact, I don't like understand any of it, but I'm like, oh, but if it's symbolic and
representative of the awe and reverence that I can have for myself or for other humans or
for humanity in general, what a beautiful gift that is.
Yes, absolutely.
That was beautifully said.
It was, yeah.
Real.
Just prayer.
I'm over here like, she's speaking a metaphor.
She's got me going.
What are we doing after this interview?
We got free time.
So good.
So good.
Well said.
I appreciate that very, very much.
Let us talk about non-dualism.
Oh, dear.
It's going to get really heady here, listener.
We're going to try to keep it as...
Well, you're going to speak to me.
Here's the thing.
I don't understand non-dualism, but I've been explained for two and a half years.
So this one and I still don't understand.
So talk to me like I'm 12.
Okay.
Here's the thing.
We're going to find a technique.
The thing is, is that Cesar and I ended up in a conversation at some point in which he
said, yeah, yeah, yeah, non-dualism.
And I was like, huh?
So.
He was testing you to see if he could speak non-dualism to you.
You might need to lead me because I'm not a Buddhist.
It's so funny.
I have Buddhist people in my life that are always like, yes, you're saying what, but I don't.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, in the practical world, people take refuge to become Buddhists without question, but it's
not what it's about.
It's to realize...
Here we go again with the metaphors because the Buddha is talking about everything is Buddha
consciousness.
All of it is Buddha consciousness.
It's not we are him.
He tapped into this thing.
It was before him.
It's after him.
Kaz is dead.
He's not here anymore, the Buddha.
He doesn't care.
Buddha, he's Godoma Shakyamuni.
Shakyamuni is who he was.
He became Buddha when he tapped into that.
All of us have that tapping into.
Just like the crystal lies within the rock.
It is within all of the things that we can find and tap into.
So one, that takes care of that because moving aside from the practical world of the
you got to take refuge and take your precepts and blah, blah, blah.
No, no, no, no, no.
All we're doing is unearthing.
The gem that's within us already that we call in this society, Buddha consciousness.
Two, because it's all within us and it is the constant, the only constant that is beyond this
impermanent thing here.
It is non-two.
It doesn't split.
There are no two things.
It manifests like origami here, you know, but it ultimately becomes this non-two, non-separate
entity, which is what we all are.
Blaine, why you say non-two instead of we are all one?
Because that's the phrase you hear a lot.
Oh, we're all one.
We're all one.
Yeah.
All one is a very appropriate thing to say in this society because again, the language that
we're using, it's the words that we use for right here, right now.
You have a degree in linguistics.
Yeah.
Correct?
And words evolve.
They consistently evolve.
There's not, there's actually not a such thing as proper grammar.
That's what fits right here and right now in this time.
And it changes because someone saying like, oh, you can't use that certain word.
Well, do you say I shall go to the story?
Exactly.
Read some old English.
You don't.
So because things change over time, right?
Yeah.
And because of that, saying we are one is a good way to bring us all together.
Yes.
Totally understand that.
And I will go with that in the conversation of the times of we're here right now.
I will say, I will go to the store and saying, we should say I shall.
I'm not going to do that.
I'll meet you right here where you are.
The step after that is saying, if we are all one, where is the other thing?
Hmm.
Yeah.
I mean.
Where is it?
Right.
Because as soon as you say the one, you're implying that there's something else.
And so now you split again.
But I feel like we get into these conversations that are actually just sort of showing the
limitations of our human form.
You know what I mean?
And like we are, I believe there's some divine consciousness that sort of like shows up in
everything and it animates and it's the same and, you know, it ebbs and flows and we die
and we come back or something.
But part of what it means to be in this like false three-dimensional world is that we are not all one here.
We are all the different things.
And so if we ask where the other thing is in this world, well, it's right here.
It's the fucking table.
You know, there are different things here.
And so we're trying to have like an outside conversation inside.
And I feel like when we are no longer incarnate, then our minds or our whatever that is, our capacity
for witness or experience will be large enough to not have to have that semantics of saying,
well, if it's all one, then what else?
And this and you know what I mean?
I think we get lost in a question that we're just not ready to have, you know?
Yeah.
Something you introduced me to in this concept was, I think there are a lot of religions that
will preach the idea of we are all one in terms of like human form and maybe animal form too.
I think when we get into the material world of material things and like we're talking about
crystals, but also you will say oftentimes like this table too, like there's consciousness in this
table.
There's consciousness in all things, all, every single thing in this universe.
That's where I was like, oh, well, I don't really think about the table having feelings.
But then we can go back to the, everything is mind or grown.
Right.
And it's a lot easier to picture, like, especially if you start with biology and we know all of
these, like the, the leaf is actually, you can take a photograph of where it's going to
grow before it grows.
Cause it's, it has a memory in its biology of what it's doing, you know?
And we understand, or we accept that DNA has that.
Right.
But then when you look at a crystal, it's like how, okay.
So how do the molecules know?
How do they, why do they organize like that?
And, and, and of course there's always a discoverable mechanism, but why, but why that mechanism?
You know?
Beautiful way to say it.
Discoverable mechanism is so good.
It's an implication of what we see is working right here in the right now.
Yeah.
And it's subject to change and to expand.
Yeah.
And we, we use those as a, as like a proof of non-magic, you know, like, oh, this is how
it's happening.
Okay, cool.
That's still crazy.
Yeah.
The fact that that's happening.
Yeah.
You know?
It's so crazy.
And so, and then you're like, if we've, okay, we've moved from biology, we've moved into
like crystallography.
That's wild.
How does it know to do that?
And then this is wooden, or maybe it's not, it might be like a polymer.
Yeah.
Okay.
I mean this, you have selenite in your walls, there's gypsum, you know, there's minerals
all around us.
And like, and those physical items, I mean, it's like chemistry is so interesting.
I didn't, I didn't do very well in it, but like, if you think, these are all, these
materials have behaviors.
They have qualities that they bring around with them wherever they go and, and they behave
with those rules.
You mix them together and things happen, you know, it seems like magic, but the whole world
has intelligence in it because whatever its properties are actually, you know, like it's
personality.
And so.
Yeah.
Well, that's the cool thing about being, what I believe is that we are conscious beings having
a human experience.
And if we can zoom out a bit from the, like, that asshole cut me off in traffic, or my boss
is just really narcissistic.
And go like, oh man, how cool that like consciousness showed up in you, even just within humans,
be like, okay, well you, oh, you look that way.
Like the hair of your head curls because of the follicles, but mine doesn't.
And that's cool.
Like yours is different too.
But then you could also be like, oh, look at that consciousness over there.
It's like metal, but this one's like a soft putty.
And this is, it's just endless.
It's just kind of the, we go right back to the awe and reverence for the natural world
in general.
And everything that's in our non-natural world, all this tech and all the microphone we're
speaking on and all of that, it's the same.
It's all the same.
And it's all coming from the same.
And it's got form and function right here in this, you know, actual microphone in front
of me.
Yeah.
I'm super curious though about what, what it is in the concept of the non-dualism since
I don't even use that word, but like, what is the thing that hangs you up?
Like, where is.
I think it's the semantics about non-two versus like, we can all say like, we are all one,
but we're like, oh, but we're not all one because we're non-two.
We're not two things.
And then that gets very heady to me.
It's like, it goes beyond the understanding of it.
And it just goes to like, the words are blurred.
That's why I'm all dizzy.
You lost me.
I tend to think of it like, first of all, it just hit me one day.
I understood it like intellectually.
I was like, okay, fine, whatever, no big deal.
And then I was driving on the 101 and all of a sudden it just washed through my body and
my vision and everything looks different.
That's it.
And I just can't not see it now.
But what washed over your body?
Sorry.
So that's, that's the real, that's the real note is me spending my whole life using metaphor
to understand it.
Heinrich Zimmer says the best things in the world are unexplainable.
Yeah.
Right.
The second best things are misunderstood because you spend the time trying to explain the unexplainable.
The third best things are conversation.
And I love it.
It's a marvelous line.
It's a marvelous line.
So I spend my life kind of at the two, at the, at the second tier, kind of hitting this metaphor
to talk about this understanding, this, this understood mystery that we all recognize.
If I tell you they ran around like a chicken with their head cut off, I can just say they
ran around, but I'm saying something a little more so you can understand the untouchable urgency
of that run.
That's what metaphor is for.
That's what movies and film and religion and spirituality.
Yeah.
All of our art.
Yeah.
All of it is for that.
Yeah.
And in my opinion, all of life is this, this whole physical world is a metaphor of that
mystery that we're looking at.
So what my way into it, to answer your question, if I'm on the one-on-one and I felt that my
way into it often is I think about a clear blue sky, lay on your back and look straight
up at a clear blue sky.
Where is the end?
You can't see it.
The endlessness of that, you can't see any form, shape.
You can't put your finger on where it ends or where it begins.
And it's, you get lost into it.
That is what we ultimately are.
And that's a metaphor.
It is an endlessness of something that is not split.
That's the best way I can explain it.
He's like, that's what I got.
That's what I got.
Does that come across in a clearer sense?
In a...
I do.
I do understand the endlessness of the sky.
I get that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And we are all of that because all of this that we have here, again, like I said earlier,
there's like a cosmic origami to where we think the one wing on one end of the origami
is separate from the other one.
And then you unfold the paper.
And then all of a sudden, it's just one paper.
All of this.
Everything you're looking at is another part of the fold of that formless blue sky you're
looking at.
Well, and what's interesting about what you were just saying about having to, it's sort
of meta, right?
Having to use, you know, language or metaphor and art and all of these different things
to try to communicate this thing.
It's like, well, that's the point though.
If we're talking about the non-duality, it's like, we're all one.
We broke apart into pieces so we could see ourselves.
Yeah.
And so we're just trying like, and if we could really understand, maybe we would just like
and just be one again, right?
That would be it.
And then we'd break apart because like, what else do we have to do?
You know?
But like, I feel like that's what art is.
We are trying to show one another that we are the same, you know?
Yes.
Also, that's what sex is.
Yes.
So definitely.
A hundred percent.
Sex is us trying to become one.
Yeah.
I love the way you explained this to me once before.
We're almost done here, but please give it to me.
I read it.
I read it in a book and the name will come to me at some point.
I might have put it in the show notes, but one of my many, many books I read, I know
I feel like our producer Glenn has read it too.
Maybe Conversations with God, maybe.
That's a good one.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But that our attempt to come together and apart and together and apart is what we do
rhythmically in penetrative sex.
And we're trying to become one.
But once we are one, we don't stay there in that fully penetrated moment.
We come back out again and come back in.
To experience the oneness again.
To experience the oneness again.
I mean, that's it.
That's the metaphor for life.
That's God.
That's, you know.
Because otherwise we would melt into each other.
Like, especially in romantic partnerships where you're like, oh, this person is everything.
We would melt into each other and we would, we would never be a part.
We would never be the two people that we are again.
Yeah.
You don't get to see anymore because you are it.
You know, you don't get the witness now is removed.
We're best as each other's mirrors.
But I think that sex is really just coming together and be like, oh my God, look at that.
We are.
We're literally what you say.
We're one.
We're not anymore.
We're one.
We're not anymore.
We're not anymore.
Oh my God.
That's what, that's what we shout.
That's what happens when you shout.
Yes, precisely.
And then we get the womb and the perfect baby.
So like, we got, we got it all.
Full circle.
Full circle.
Just answered right here.
Let's see, see, Greco.
Well, you know, I am going to make a point to cap this non-dual conversation right here,
right now because we could go on for hours.
I maybe just start a secondary podcast where I'm just explaining non-dual in every single
metaphor that I could think of.
Or you know what I could do?
I could get our kid to sit and they have me try to explain it to them in a simple manner
while they're just like, I don't know what you mean.
I don't know what you mean.
They're like child abuse.
And I'm just trying.
Child abuse.
Today I've got puppets.
Cece, thank you so much for being here with us today and sparking this incredible conversation.
And I, I'm, I'm, I'm giving crystals another, another chance.
Great.
I love it.
I love it.
Thanks for sharing your story very much.
Yeah.
Thank you guys.
This was a fantastic experience.
Where can we find you?
You can find me on my website, which is cecegreco.com.
Or you can find me at my store in North Hollywood.
Or you can find me on Instagram.
I talk a lot on Instagram also.
Awesome.
And you, people buy from your company outside of Los Angeles.
You ship as well, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
I ship from the website.
Wonderful.
Thank you.
Well, there you have it.
An exclusive interview from Ceci Greco.
And as always, please be kind to yourself.
Thank you.
If this episode spoke to you, take a moment and send it to someone else who might need it.
That's the best way to spread these conversations to the people who need them the most.
And if you want to keep exploring with us, make sure to follow Beauty in the Break wherever
you get your podcasts.
We'll see you next time.
Beauty in the Break is created and hosted by Foster Wilson and Cesar Cardona.
Our executive producer is Glenn Milley.
Original music by Cesar & the Clew.