Season 1, Episode 7: Nadin Sinno – AI in Recruiting

Nadin Sinno will discuss the evolving role of AI in recruitment, from automation to ethical considerations. Expect insights on how to balance innovation with human touch.

Transcript

Angela Pointer 0:25

Welcome to the Hiring Scope podcast from the National Association for Healthcare Recruitment. Where we explore the latest trends, insights, and strategies in the ever changing world of healthcare hiring. I'm your host, Angela Pointer. In each episode, we'll dive deep into the challenges and opportunities facing recruiters, hiring managers and healthcare professionals alike. Whether your looking to attract top talent, navigate industry changes or build a stronger workforce. You're in the right place. Today I am excited to talk to Nadin Sinno, lead nursing recruiter at the George Washington University Hospital. Welcome, Nadin

Nadin Sinno 0:40

Hi, everyone. Thanks for uh having me. It's a pleasure to be part of the NAHCR Podcast series.

Angela Pointer 0:49

Awesome. So as we get started, tell us a little about you. Let's hear the Nadin story about you, and particularly also want to make sure you talk about your current role in organization.

Nadin Sinno 1:01

So I'm Nadin. I'm a lead nurse recruiter at the George Washington University Hospital in DC, which is part of the Universal Health Services subsidiary. And I've been with GW for four years. Before that, I was with Prime Healthcare in California and LA. And before that, in a nonprofit organization. So I've been in the healthcare field for 10 years and in recruitment. And before that, I was in technical technical recruiter and software solutions banking. Been there for like almost 20 years now in the field. And violently, um healthcare is um, especially nurses, is really my passion, aware.

Angela Pointer 1:58

Awesome. Yeah, I just thought about something as you were talking about your background because of course you live in um you're in the D are you you're in the DC area, right? Physically, or are you in California?

Nadin Sinno 2:09

No, I'm in uh DC. Gotcha. In uh Virginia, Arlington.

Angela Pointer 2:15

Yeah. So what was it like um making the transition from coast to coast? Because you've come from the west coast to the east coast four years ago.

Nadin Sinno 2:22

That's to tell you, in the middle of that was in the middle of COVID after surviving COVID in LA, never escaped where, and then in two weeks I accepted the offer and I relocated in two weeks from my last day in LA here. And it's been a big change, definitely. Like you can tell, the pool is open, but but the weather has been really bad. Like it's a totally different um weather, like so, yeah, a big change, but at the same time, it gives you more like more experience and knowing like how to recruit for that cause. And there's a really difference between even dealing with candidates in the West Coast than here. So, but uh doing well so far.

Angela Pointer 3:20

You mentioned something, and I know I didn't really talk about it yet, but we're gonna be speaking on a very interesting topic in the healthcare space, and it's kind of the the two words or the two letters that everybody's talking about, and that is AI. You know, this is you mentioned about uh your change during COVID. The world has changed quite a bit, um, obviously with the pandemic, but one thing that has happened too is we're embracing the world of AI. So I'm curious what sparked your interest in this topic?

Nadin Sinno 3:50

Well, if I tell you that I have like almost 35 smart devices in my home. So I've been always into the technology, and especially when I started in recruitment back in the days, like when we used to fax resume, like when recruitment was not fun, and gradually housing technology started to get in there, and then the algorithm, and recently the AI and the GPT, so it is all something of interest because AI is here to help, but not to replace, and especially when it comes to learning, like at the end of the day, we are the life is all about deep learning. Like we don't learn from mistakes of others, and like we evolve, and that's so AI existed from day one, I say, and it is just now that it is becoming a big hype. But if you think about it, everything is deep learning, we all learned from each other and develop. Also, what really was the kind of as if I more predicted when I was on Amazon care, I suggested that I see one day that we say, Alexa, find me a nurse that has ICU experience with two years. And they took it um, you know, as if like, okay, next. And that was like before GPT, and then the GPT started to get famous, and then I got into it. So it's it's the whole industry where AI and GPT is enhancing and is now everywhere.

Angela Pointer 5:50

You're right. Okay, you got me here on 35 smart devices in your home. That's pretty cool. And then there was something else you said too. I'm like, we would love to be able to do that. Alexa, find me a critical care nurse tomorrow. That is pretty interesting. So you kind of talked on because we'll be talking about AI in different aspects. So we already started talking a little bit about the evolution uh of AI, um, AI tools that you've used, particularly in the space of hiring events and outreach.

Nadin Sinno 6:19

Sure. Like if you want to agree on something that definitely us working in healthcare, our tools are way less than the corporate world because of the security and the patient information. So I know that a lot of tools we cannot like now, most corporates have everything embedded, but in healthcare, everything like you know, they worry about patient uh information. So that's why where the recruiter would try to see where they can enhance their productivity in the tools that they have, like try to make the best of what you have, even all started enhancing job description, like job posts. You know, the hospital, their job description could be like very narrow. So crafting job posts, even if you start there and slowly develop uh your productivity using a GPT, but even downloading reports, let the GPT analyze it for you. So that's how it started. Then went to scheduling and self-scheduling text campaign, like by time it will enhance your whole communication. Like at one point, you would see that your emails get more organized, your thoughts, how you display your ideas, and yeah, it is it is incredible that sometimes you would a word can change the whole email tone that this word the GPT will will show will like generate it. And I was like, yeah, like how whereas the message was gonna be totally misunderstood if I wrote it uh the way I thought of it uh at the beginning. But um, this is mainly what the tools that I use, and I can tell you more if you'd like to.

Angela Pointer 8:28

That's great, yes. Um even you know, from my perspective, I've kind of dabbled in this area too, and you're right, it's really amazing all the things that you can do, specifically as we're talking about healthcare recruitment and AI. Are there any aspects of healthcare hiring, in your opinion, that AI just can't replace or shouldn't replace?

Nadin Sinno 8:50

Even I mentioned that in the uh NAHCR conference last year when I spoke with um when I presented along Review House, and that was almost a year ago. Don't count on GPT to screen resume. You cannot count on unless you're gonna be doing the work and revalidating and you know correcting the machine. But I can tell you screening resume, they are not there yet, but it would be very helpful in creating campaigns, even like uh marketing campaigns. So yeah, I was telling you that a lot of the human interface, a lot of that cannot be replaced anytime soon. Like nothing can be replacing the the uh uh like um human communications and especially in recruitment. Even I've seen that some startups try to do a AI phone screen and a full interview, and they didn't go anywhere. It is we're not there yet. So I would say that anything that would help your administrative task, anything that will speed up your recruitment, that would be helpful. But the bulk, where is where is the human communication and like interlife uh in-person interview or zoom that's not replaceable? However, AI is here to help us automate things that really doesn't matter, so we can work uh like do more uh recruitment, like career recruitment where we meet source and interview and talent management. So that's where AI can't yet, and I don't think they will be. It all depends on how someone uses it, but you need to use it uh smartly because it's a double-edged sword.

Angela Pointer 11:04

Yeah, you're absolutely right about that. I mean, I was actually having a conversation earlier today with someone, and I said, you know, in talent acquisition, we are in human resources, and that word human is there for a reason. So I'm certainly we're appreciative of all the things that AI can do, but it doesn't replace that human connection. So you were spot on there. Uh let's talk a little bit about some ethical considerations. Um, because you actually brought up one thing, particularly with healthcare, is being concerned about patient confidentiality and that type of thing. So uh when using AI and recruitment, what ethical concerns should we be thinking about?

Nadin Sinno 11:42

I can tell you that when uh the uh HSS laid off, well, not actually laid off, but when they warned them that 40,000 employees might be losing their job. So me, I wanted to do something to kind of let them know that there if if they ended up leaving, they can always look into an opportunity. So I had to reach out to them and finding their email, it is on a public on their website, but getting that email, it has to be opened in a different window for each of those 40,000. But with the help of some AI and learning, I was able to extract those in a couple of hours. And then drafting that message that you need to, I did draft it like more than 20 versions till I got to the version that is will deliver the right message without hurting anything. We're not telling them that you're gonna be losing your job. It's just letting them know that in case, or if they know someone, you know, that we're here so they feel more supportive and not, you know, as if you're when someone mocking them or like not mocking them, but making them feel that they are uh less less well, you know, say and pity them and or like that. So that's one of the things, but it is always discrimination. And I heard I've been reading that some AI tools were discriminating, but never used it that far. Like it is very for minor productivity and uh enhancing your elite task. And that's where the human interaction is always needed to eliminate any bias and uh that could be uh coming from any other factors related to machine or you know, some some bugs that in the uh in their technology might start scraping and selecting specific race, gender, or I'm telling you like the technology is not perfect at all. Like two days ago, a tool, the biggest tool name, couldn't figure out what day we are. They confuse the day of the week and then confuse the time. Confuse the time. Like I was we are not Wednesday, we still like it is probably because the a lot of people are feeding that um machine and feeding it not uh uh uh correct, not uh apparently like it is kind of going downward, like or what I guess it was happening, it is getting maybe much better and very complex uh coding and technology, but with the minor like the minimal learning, it is getting dumber, if you'd like say you know, confusing days of the week that uh or sometimes would tell you that show me uh an airline ticket, GG, or I want to buy, let's say, a coffee machine, it will show you prices in a different whole continent. But you know where I am, like why do you show me products as if I live in a different overseas? So this type of things that needs to be um someone to pay attention exactly, to verify, to read, and to take what will be, you know, like not copy-pasting, it is check, read, validate, take what you think is good, but always keep your style, keep your so it will not wrong or firing back on you.

Angela Pointer 15:54

Yeah, that that's actually some good nuggets there. And I would say too, yes, uh, we're not letting AI to make make those decisions. You said something that's very key about it's a tool in your toolbox to help you, but you don't make decisions that way. And I also found it interesting that with all the, as you mentioned, with everything that's going on, it gets a little, you know, AI can get confused and not even know what day it is. So that is quite interesting. So I'm gonna ask you real quick, Nadine. We're gonna put on your crystal ball here, so to speak. And so, what do you say five years from now? What do you think AI might be doing in recruiting that we're not even thinking about yet?

Nadin Sinno 16:34

So what I what I see in five years, not much change besides it is very unpredictable. Like you see the word AI when doesn't when honestly they just put it, but nothing changed because that's there's a confusion between algorithm and AI and deep learning and GPT, but it is how they're gonna be used. It might be a hype, and then if like they're confusing and giving wrong information or giving you too much hope, uh, you know, like let's say you're trying to open a business, and yeah, it's a great idea, and the feedback that they will give you, you know, and then you will find out that no, if I listen to the GPT, I would have ended up in a losing, like that's where someone needs to always dig deeper and research and ask the GPT why you think that, why you did not you you think of that way, like try to see their point of view because a lot of time they will say, ah, you're correct, and they will rephrase. So it is it might replace a lot of administrative tasks for sure. I see it updating job description automatically and posting and uh like looking whatever trends and um, you know, as marketing, it can be helpful as creating like marketing strategies since now social media marketing has gone very uh downward, but um that's where I see it. Not seeing any phone interview or full hiring uh happening through uh the recruiter won't be replaced.

Angela Pointer 18:28

Yeah, that makes sense because we no one has the full picture because we couldn't have guessed, I guess five years before COVID, no one would have guessed that we would have an international pandemic. So I think you make a good point is that maybe we'll get smarter as far as with AI and machine learning because I think it's only as good as the learning that we're we're doing. So that's great. Now let's talk about kind of advice for recruiters, particularly, say a recruiter is a little skeptical or hesitant about embracing AI. What advice would you give that recruiter?

Speaker 19:00

I would address more here healthcare recruiters that you know that our job is more than just recruiting. Even if you're anti-AI, it is good to try. And even if you start small, tiny, and because the word gonna be used, it will it is already part of our daily life. And if you would like the healthcare feel more of close and change resisted to change, it's a bit there, but now after the pandemic, it we're one word, like we all need to be evolving. So it is just keep your, you know, even if you read research something, just follow the trends of what's going on and just don't um too get to get get too much into it and overcount and let it replace you and or don't uh um boycott it totally. No, just take whatever you feel it is helpful and easy to get, can tell you in scheduling, it's a great help. I found out that a lot of applicants in the healthcare they do it in the middle of the night when we are sleeping. So texting them, self-scheduling is a big change. I'm talking 10 times more than counting on those eight hours that we are in the office. Unbelievable.

Angela Pointer 20:37

Yeah, that is unbelievable. Self-scheduling, I think, was a huge um game changer for us and working smart.

Nadin Sinno 20:46

Yeah, nurse, especially nurses, they they apply and when they are burnt out, or like which is in their middle ambitious, you know, like so, especially that they work seven to seven. So yeah, it is all about speed and communication, and apparently now everyone preferred a text than take a minute, uh pick up the phone.

Angela Pointer 21:09

You are so right. So I have to tell myself for two seconds here. I was uh in the market for something personal I was looking to buy, and it was so much easier. Someone sent me a like, can I just text you options? And I'm like, Yes, thank you. I don't want to really talk to 50 million people.

Nadin Sinno 21:24

So I think that's super helpful for nurses to be able to get quick answers to be able to think they like to even self-schedule themselves like without and texting. We've been doing it, but using that big name or like any scheduling tool, it is big. Like they just want everything to be through that screen, which is great. At one point, you're gonna be talking to them and interviewing them, and they will come and shadow. But that's my advice for the recruiters.

Angela Pointer 21:57

Thank you for sharing that. And I As we um wrap up, is there anything that we haven't touched on that you want to be sure we add before we close the day?

Nadin Sinno 22:07

Even if you're gonna be paying twenty dollars from your own pocket to enhance your whole productivity or for some project, sometimes it is worth it. There's a lot of things you can do, uh voice cloning, presenting, like you name it, but just uh use it wisely and make sure that it is uh used at the right time. And um you can always reach out to me and we can discuss that more and exchange ideas and thoughts about where we're heading to in the world of AI, GPT.

Angela Pointer 22:55

That's great. Thank you so much for sharing that. I think what I'm my takeaway here is just try something. You know, for people that are that are a little skeptical or hesitant or just don't don't know. So that was some really good advice. So thank you so much, Nadim. I've enjoyed our time talking about, I know a subject that's very passionate, that you're passionate about with using AI in healthcare recruitment. So that wraps up this episode of the Hiring Scope podcast from the National Association for Healthcare Recruitment. Thank you for joining me, Angela Pointer, as we tackle the E Blooming Landscape of Healthcare Hiring. If you enjoyed today's conversation, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with your network. Or check us out at NAHCR.com for more content. Until next time, keep pushing the boundaries of what's possible in healthcare recruitment.