Choose Who You Become: The Science of Identity

In this kickoff episode for Pride Month on Chris and Jen in the morning, hosts Chris and Jen dive deep into the concept of identity, exploring how we shape, lose, and consciously create who we are. Rather than viewing identity as a static label or over-rotating into a career, the hosts discuss how identity operates as a continuous evolution. They look at the societal pressures of defining oneself by work, the emotional toll of hiding your true self for self-preservation, and how to navigate life's shifting stages by aligning with internal truth.

Three Pivotal Points

• The Neuroscience of the Default Mode Network: The brain does not store identity in a single spot; instead, a region called the default mode network activates during wakeful rest to process experiences, memories, and relationships, continuously updating our self-narrative.
• Grounding Values vs. Fluid Beliefs: While beliefs are meant to change and adapt as perspectives broaden, core values act as static, centering landmarks (like constellations) that keep your identity secure without being rocked by shifting external environments.
• Embracing Internal Contradictions: True human identity allows for seemingly opposing traits—such as being simultaneously strong and sensitive, or ambitious and content—rather than forcing oneself into strict, binary categories.

Music licensed through Soundstripe.

Code: VBDASUFSV83DNY2H 

Chapters

00:00 Celebrating Pride Month

02:05 Exploring Identity

08:27 The Evolution of Identity

16:51 The Journey of Continuous Learning

19:16 Understanding Identity Through Neuroscience

22:17 The Impact of Life Changes on Identity

26:17 Values vs. Beliefs: The Foundation of Identity

30:17 The Fluidity of Identity and Beliefs

34:16 Engaging with the Default Mode Network

37:16 The Search for Purpose and Meaning

44:19 Outgrowing Assigned Identities

51:17 The Cost of Hiding Our True Selves

53:22 The Struggles of Identity and Acceptance

57:01 Navigating Privacy and Performance

01:00:05 Embracing Contradictions in Identity

01:03:32 The Evolution of Self and Identity

01:07:16 Reflection and Personal Growth

01:08:45 Pride and the Courage to Be Yourself

01:13:12 Outro

 resources

Chris and Jen's Website - https://chrisandjenitm.com

Fabfave Finds Pride Shirts - https://fabfavefinds.etsy.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Who are you when you strip away your job title, your relationships, and the expectations of everyone around you? If you had to define your true self without using your career as a crutch, what would you say? Identity isn't a fixed box handed down to us. It is a constantly evolving story.

SPEAKER_03 0:23

When I think about identity, I think about like all of the things that go into influencing who we think we should be, who we are, who we want to be, who we think is possible for us to be. I know it can include all kinds of things. It can include race, ethnicity, career, gender, sexual orientation, your interests, your beliefs, uh, your values, your personality traits.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

I remember like growing up, one something that like you commonly ask is what do you want to be when you grow up? Or asking people to identify and figure out who they are before they've really even become.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Today on Chris and Gen in the Morning, we explore the neuroscience of how our brains shape who we are, why fluid beliefs change while core values ground us, and the profound courage it takes to stop hiding and embrace life's contradictions. Ask yourself: who would you become next if nobody expected you to be who you've always been? Let's get into it.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

Welcome to Chris and Jen in the morning, where self-care meets real life. I'm Chris.

SPEAKER_03 1:39

And I'm Jen.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

And welcome to our first uh Pride Month episode.

SPEAKER_03 1:46

Well, our second first. Oh, you have the shirt!

SPEAKER_01 1:50

I do. I wore it for the speciality.

SPEAKER_03 1:55

Up a little more. Up, up, up, up, up. We gotta see it.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

My microphone is in the line.

SPEAKER_03 2:01

Erase hate, protect love. I love that shirt. It looks so good. Where did you get it?

SPEAKER_01 2:08

You got it for me.

SPEAKER_03 2:09

Fabfavefinds.etsy.com.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Fabfavefinds.etsi.com.

SPEAKER_03 2:17

Go there today. Get yours. Get yours. You might recognize a familiar model.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Oh yeah, I'm out there.

SPEAKER_03 2:24

Modeling on the shirt. Modeling on the shirt, modeling the shirt.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

Modeling the shirt, yeah. Yeah, that's the right one.

SPEAKER_03 2:31

It's comfy too, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:33

It is. It is a great tea. Like very comfortable. I try not to wear too much because I don't want it to like fade as I wash it, which I know I could just go buy another.

SPEAKER_03 2:42

It's not gonna fade.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

It doesn't say well made. Well made. All right.

SPEAKER_03 2:46

Yeah, it's well made. But wear it, wear it until you wear it out and then replace it.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Yeah, then replace it.

SPEAKER_03 2:54

Um I love it. And I love that you're wearing that to kick off Pride Month. We're very excited. This is our second Pride Month.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Yes, second Pride Month.

SPEAKER_03 3:04

We're in season two.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 3:07

First episode of season two of Pride, and I'm super excited to take today to talk about um identity.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

Yeah, so this all came about like in in like we you and I have had many a conversation about like what it is to be part of the LGBTQ plus community being an ally of it. And I think a lot of the conversations recently have um been around this idea of identity. And as I was really thinking about it, I was like, if someone were to like ask me to describe myself without mentioning my job, my relationship where I live, like what would I actually say? And and how like how is my identity um put together? And so that's kind of how I came to this idea of, hey, let's talk about identity a little bit and how um it actually there is like neuroscience that goes into all of this, and there is um uh science and and psychological things that help make us who we are.

SPEAKER_03 4:11

And um, there are ways that we were those the the technical terms, science and psychological things. Yes, yes, yes, yes, and I think this can relate to, you know, anybody. I mean, this is not uh while it's a really relevant topic for us to talk about while we kick off Pride Month, it really is like relevant to all of us. Correct. So um I'm super excited to talk about that today.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

Well, um, if you are new here, we're super excited to have you. Um, we would love for you to join our little community here. We are looking to um create a space where people can find some joy and happiness, maybe learn a little bit about some self-development things. Um, but this all started because Jen and I used to have conversations and and support one another. And we were like, hey, why don't why don't we create do something more with this?

SPEAKER_03 5:06

Yeah, like, hey, we're funny.

SPEAKER_01 5:09

I mean, we think we are.

SPEAKER_03 5:12

You as kind, you is smart, you is important, special. Um yeah, um, absolutely. We'd love to have you as a part of the community. Um, you can follow, subscribe on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, like, share, comment, join the conversation. Um, hop on over to our website, Chris and Jenitm.com, and uh subscribe to our newsletter. You'll get some behind the scenes fun. Um, so um, we'd love to have you in on in on all of the fun. And before we start talking about identity, let's kick off with gratitude moment. Do you want to start?

SPEAKER_01 5:50

I am happy to start. So, although this is being released um in June, we are recording it on May 31st. Which is also my husband's birthday. So I have to just give my gratitude moment to Frank, my husband, who we met over 10 years ago at this point. Um, he has stuck with me as I have developed into the person that I am and I am continuing to be. We are on this journey together. I love him. He supports me, he challenges me, he he helps me see the world from a different perspective. And um uh he brings a level of adventure into my life that I don't think is innately um, I'm innately pulled to. And so I appreciate having someone in my life who can do that, but who sees me, loves me, and supports me. So I love you and happy birthday.

SPEAKER_03 6:51

We love Frank. We adore him. He is a pretty special guy. Happy birthday, Frank. And I am also grateful for Frank, but my gratitude moment today is um is I just want to take a moment and express my gratitude for Pride and Pride Month in general. I I think representation matters. We'll talk about that a little bit. Um, identity matters, we'll talk about that a little bit. And sometimes you just need to have a little bit of camaraderie in order to give yourself the courage to show up as who you are and feel like it's safe to embrace yourself. And um I think that's for me what pride is all about. It's about having the specific opportunity to be a highly visible reminder that you belong, you matter, you um, you are we're here, we're not going away. Um, it's it's making space. It's giving a seat at the table where you know there ha hadn't been a seat.

SPEAKER_04 8:07

Right.

SPEAKER_03 8:07

And um, I think we gotta keep keep making space for that seat, and we gotta keep sitting down in it and being loud about it until everybody else gets used to the fact that that seat is just there at the table. Um Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

And I think when people ask the question about like, why why do we need a pride? Why do it's like because we still argue and squabble over the right the basic human rights of people.

SPEAKER_03 8:32

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Um so I I am just I'm incredibly grateful that we have Pride Month. I'm incredibly grateful for the people that uh had the courage to um take the really bold steps that got us to a place where we can uh be here celebrating this. And um, I don't take it for granted. So um just incredibly grateful for the progress that we've made while we continue to fight towards the progress that is deserved.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

Yep. Still got work to do, folks.

SPEAKER_03 9:09

So happy Pride Month.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

Happy Pride Month.

SPEAKER_03 9:14

Minus some flags here. I don't like it.

SPEAKER_01 9:17

I know. I last year I had like a whole thing. It just goes to show that it's not just about like the things you surround yourself with, it's the spirit in which you enter the month.

SPEAKER_03 9:28

So Yeah, I do have to say I miss your setup.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

I know. I know. I really, you know, whenever we um moved things around for the holidays, we just haven't switched it all back up yet.

SPEAKER_03 9:39

So still in my corner. Still in there, nobody puts Chris in the corner.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

Nobody puts Chris in the corner.

SPEAKER_03 9:45

Except for Chris himself.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

Yeah. All right. So let's talk about identity. What is it? How we how we build or lose, uh, maybe even rediscover it. Um how we shape it.

SPEAKER_03 10:00

Um, like we keep we talk a lot about how we find our identity, but um, like we're gonna talk about how we create our identity.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

So whenever you hear, like uh, I guess like as as someone who is an ally to the to the community, like when you hear this idea around identity, um, and I know that like a lot of people immediately um you know attach it to um uh the your your sexual orientation, gender, things like that. But like what do you hear when when you hear identity?

SPEAKER_03 10:37

Yeah, uh for me, this is something that I have actually thought a lot about because um my identity was so over like rotated towards career orientation. And so when I would introduce myself to people, not even in a career setting, um, like I would tell them what I did and I would ask what they do for work. And um I but I remember you telling me a story about somebody who you said, you know, what do you do? And they were like, I'm for fun or for work. And I just thought, well, that's the oddest way to ask that question. But it's really stuck with me because I also think, well, while that may not be a normal way, like a normal societal normal, um, common, I should say, that may not be a common way to respond, like it's a really healthy way to respond. Um because we do kind of tend to over-rotate into our career, particularly here in America. And um, and so for me, I have been on this journey of like my own little eat pray-love journey of exploring like who am I and who do I want to be. Um, I also think when I think about identity, I think about like all of the things that go into influencing who we think we should be, who we are, who we want to be, um, who we think is possible for us to be. And um, you know, I know we'll talk about representation a little bit, but here's where I think representation really matters because um, you know, I one of my favorite lines to say is if you can see it, you can be it.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

That's true.

SPEAKER_03 12:24

And um, you know, being a big advocate for women, uh, women's rights and uh and women having a uh equal seat at the table. Um I think that's been you know something that I have invested a lot of time in over my career from a career standpoint. Um how do we become visible so that people can believe that that can be a part of their identity? So um I guess to go back and answer your question, when I think about identity, that's what I think about. Um, but I know it can include all kinds of things. It can include um, you know, race, ethnicity, career, gender, sexual orientation, your interests, your beliefs, your validity val uh, your values, your personality traits. If you go back to like the high school yearbook and people being voted as most likely to this or that, yeah. Like the the monikers that we give, like that's all identity, the class clown, the responsible one, the funny one, the peacemaker, the good Christian kid, the athlete, the caretaker, the overachiever.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Yeah. I think a lot of it is also really interesting that like part of part of I remember like growing up one something that like you commonly ask kids, well, what do you want to be when you grow up? And like there's this almost like uh uh we're asking people to identify and figure out who they are before they've really even become. Like, and I don't know if that's like you're trying to like figure out like how how best to engage with them or what to get them or what type of things to enroll them in. But I just find it interesting that like when you think about identity, it's so much bigger than like just all the little things, right? That you just listed off. It's like how all of those things come together.

SPEAKER_03 14:22

Come together. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

And yeah, I feel like we look at it in such small snippets of things. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_03 14:31

Yeah, it does. And you know, your identity, you know, is as we're little, like it it gets handed to us partly, right? Some of it's your personality and like, but it there's people forming and shaping and making choices for you and the environment that you're in, and you know, your belief system is being t taught to you. It's not something that you are choosing.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

Right.

SPEAKER_03 14:55

Um, and and then as we grow up, we begin to start taking agency of our identity or can begin to do that. And sometimes I think people just naturally go along for the ride, and then some people are going, but who am I? Who am I supposed to be? What am I supposed to accomplish? Right. And I do think that there are times where as our we talked about values last week, yeah, um, or two weeks ago or whatever that was. Um, as our values evolve over time, um I think sometimes our the identity that we inherit gets misaligned with um the the values that we develop.

SPEAKER_04 15:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:39

And um as I was kind of looking into this topic and thinking about what do I want to invest time talking about here with you, one of the things that really stood out to me is this like concept that we often are searching for what our identity is. And it may not be quite the right question. Instead, we need to be thinking about what do I want my identity to be? Because you can choose it and create it. Um, and I think it and it can evolve over time. It doesn't it like it's not something that is static.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

Um and I think that was like one of the most insightful things that I kind of got out of this. And like whenever you sit down and actually think about it, like that makes total sense because you live, you have lived experiences that inform the way you think, the way you operate. Like, if I had to do this again, what would I do to like all of those things you like hold on to and begin to so like why wouldn't why wouldn't we do that as evolving and becoming who we are? And so I think that was super interesting to me is this idea that um we've we may think we have to get ourselves figured out and who we are and all of those things by a certain age, but actually the neuroscience tells a very different story that our brains are constantly adapting, that they are constantly changing. And because of that, we we actually are becoming who we are versus just like taking on these different labels or monik monikers, whatever, and attaching them to ourselves.

SPEAKER_03 17:16

I've often thought that if I was gonna do a memoir, a good title for it might be becoming. Um, and then I think somebody else did that.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

Yeah, I think Michelle Obama did.

SPEAKER_03 17:25

I was like, oh man, I wasn't quick enough. Um but like it really is like this this constant inertia in motion. You're constantly becoming the person who you are going to be.

SPEAKER_02 17:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:40

Um, it's not like I've reached it. Now I check the box and move on. It's it's like a constant evolution. It's not a it's oh it's the climb, but the climb doesn't have a summit.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

Yeah, no. And so it's interesting you say that because I was uh we went and saw friends over Memorial Day weekend and um they were asking how the podcast was going. And so I was like sharing about how, you know, we've been really enjoying doing this and we've learned a lot of new things. And I'm like, it's funny how like we'll talk about things and then um like an opportunity will present itself for me to like pull this learning into real life and like my my experience what was versus what it is now just seems very different. And how um like this this process of evolving and continuing to learn and continuing to adapt to this world around me has has really just opened my eyes to this idea that we should always be learning. We are never done. Um and when we stop learning, we're we start to miss out on what could be.

SPEAKER_03 18:49

Yeah. Well, as someone who is uh one of my core values is curiosity, and I am just curious by nature, um, sometimes to my detriment. Um, to me, that's just super appealing. Um, but sometimes I can also take that, you know, to the extreme. And sometimes it's okay. You don't like you can take a pause in learning. You can just shift into neutral and like an enjoy life. But um, not that learning's not enjoyable, it is, but sometimes it's intensive, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:21

Like it's intensive, and I think it's also um like self-reflective. And I think that's what you and I have been doing a lot of as we've been on this journey, um, which actually brings me to the neuroscience kind of around our identities. So um neuroscientists have actually discovered that our sense of identity isn't stored in a single spot in the brain. It actually is part of this um grouping or this region that they have called the default mode network. And um, it's like the brain regions that actually activate um primarily when we are in what they call uh wakeful rest. So it's when we're not focused so much on what's happening in the world around us. So not when we're, you know, scrolling or listening to music or reading a book. It is when we are basically sitting and just allowing our brains to process what what happens in our day, what's happen happening in the world, like, and it's in those moments that our those regions in our brain start to activate and we start to better understand not just um uh what has happened, but kind of the part that we've played in it and where we where we sit in this whole thing.

SPEAKER_03 20:37

Yeah. It's like it takes all of our memories, our experiences, our relationships, our successes, our failures, even like stories that other people tell about us. Yeah. Um, and combines all of those together and and like updates our story of who we believe we are. Um, and then who we believe we are informs subconsciously how we continue to show up.

SPEAKER_04 21:02

Right.

SPEAKER_03 21:02

And so this is where I really like this um like concept of intentional living and reminding ourselves that like we have agency, we have choice. So, you know, in the absence of like being intentional about it, you know, you become somebody. Right. But that might not be who you want to become. And you can change that.

SPEAKER_04 21:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:25

Um so I I find that to be very interesting. Uh, there's it's it's like identity is not something we have, it's something that we're always building. Um and uh, you know, there are so many different things in life that can actually like uh impact um who we are. And you know, whether it's like for me, my career was so wrapped up in my identity that I said, you know, I have an opportunity. I'm gonna take a a break and I'm gonna go find out who I am. Without my job. And um I was terrified. I was terrified.

SPEAKER_04 22:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:07

Like I didn't, I was embarrassed. I remember thinking people are gonna think I'm not relevant anymore. I'm not gonna matter. I invested all of this time curating like who I am. And then I'm just like, what am I doing? Am I throwing it away? Was it a waste? Have I wasted 20 years of a career? Um and like, am I gonna become irrelevant? And that was I don't know why that was the question that came up for me, but it was, it was really hard. And then I thought, like, does this mean I've failed life? Have I failed life? And I mean, I remember you came out like two weeks into my sabbatical, and I was like depressed. Um, and I chose to take the sabbatical, and it was so crazy. Who could take like almost a year off and like be depressed about it? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

But I think that goes to show like that societal pressure and like the the pinnacle of what we say our identity is. Like the thing that we are is the thing that makes us money. Yeah. I don't like that just seems when you say it out loud, it just seems a little wacky.

SPEAKER_03 23:21

Like, yeah. And so um, you know, it also could be family changes, right? Like whether you um are in a relationship that you are in no longer, somebody passes away, um, you know, families part ways, even if it's not your relationship. It could be um, you know, your kids move out, it could be you don't have kids and now you do have kids. It could be, you know, all kinds of things.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

Yeah, we talk about like life in stages, right? Like you're a child, you're you're a teenager, you're a young adult. And I think um, like maybe you have maybe it's understanding like as you're going through those, like how the identity evolves and changes and and continues to grow. But it, I don't know, like for some reason we think that like, oh, by insert whatever age we think we should have life figured out by, like, we should also have our identity figured out. Meanwhile, that doesn't mean that all of the life stages and things that happen as you live stop.

SPEAKER_03 24:20

Well, as someone who has had a kid graduate high school and hop on off to college, like there absolutely was this moment where I was like, okay, but who am I now?

SPEAKER_04 24:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:35

Um, and I still have my career, which I was so attached to, right? I think I just I I don't know that it's was even possible for me to throw myself more into it. But um, you know, it was like, who who am I if I'm not that person? I mean, I'm still mom, but like it's a different kind of mom, right? Like it's not, it's not the I see your eyeballs every day kind of mom. And um like I that was really hard um because it was became a part of my identity. And I am still mom, but it changed.

SPEAKER_04 25:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:11

Um, and so having to adjust to that, it's religious and faith beliefs can change, and that can really impact your identity. I know you have shared a little bit about some of that for yourself. I have my own journey there. Um self-discovery can lead you to new unexpected paths, and then you can go, wait a second. Like, am I a different person than I used to be? Do the things that I thought were important before have they they become less important to me now? And does that really change who I am? Um, as we age, our bodies get different and um like that can impact identity. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

It's like all these things that move cities, you move cities, right? You there it like is an endless amount of things that we as long as we are, you know, operating within the world that are constantly coming in and giving us opportunities to change. And when I think about some of the things that I have personally been through, I it has truly made me there are parts that make me uncomfortable. And I'm like, well, why does this make me uncomfortable? Why am I having such a hard time um trying to find balance in this or trying to change my thinking on something? And a lot of it goes back to this like willing to go back and look at like where my belief system is rooted and why is it rooted there? Is it because of my lived experiences that have brought me like from this place? Or is it because like that's what I was told? That's what I was taught. Those were the whether it was religious teachings or our, you know, growing up, like whatever it may be. And is it like if I let go of that, does that change who I am?

SPEAKER_03 27:09

Well, and this is where I think that conversation that we had um on values really for me helps to like sharpen my perspective here. Because um, you know, I really do believe that the difference between your beliefs and your values are that beliefs are supposed to change and evolve. And values, not that they don't evolve over time or refine, but they're a little more like static. And they're like this grounding, centering. I used like 65 analogies to describe them.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

Um so check out that episode if you haven't yet.

SPEAKER_03 27:50

But like I I do love the the concept of the constellations in the sky. Like, you know, there's a lot of them out there. You pick the ones that are your favorite and you look up and you see them and you kind of know where you are in space and time, or space at least, um, based on where where that constellation is. And and it sort of becomes the thing that helps you understand how everything else fits together, where everything else is at. And um, you know, so it as you think about all of these things that change that are your beliefs, but if you get really intentional about what are your values, um the beliefs can change and it doesn't shake your sense of self-identity because you're staying true to your values. Yeah. And um, I find when I look back at you know, what's happened over the last decade in exponentially increasing noise in the political environment here in America, the tension we've talked about, um like thinking about values, it's like my values have not changed. And so needing to go back to my values to help inform how I show up, so that while all of you know the world around me feels like beliefs are in question everywhere. Um, like if I just am true to my values, there's like a grounding presence in that. I don't know if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 29:26

It does. I think something that you said, and I know you said it in the values episode, and and I don't know, I guess I just heard it differently now, is this idea of um having your values as those as the constellations, and then uh when your beliefs begin to change, it doesn't it doesn't rock your values as much, or it doesn't like um cause you to question that identity a little bit. I think I'm still in the process of like sessing those things out based on like just how I grew up and and how like I've where I am in my current journey and trying to sess out like is that a belief or is that a value? And and trying to um like really pull it apart, like where it comes from, because if it is something I was taught, then I should question it, because to me, that's like I I don't know if my lived experience I should be going back to that as my reference point or my my true north, if you will. Like, and I'm not I'm not saying that like if you um, you know, uh religion, um, uh whatever beliefs that your family has taught you, like, I don't know, like I just feel like my I'm I am finally coming into my own and understanding those things, and it is helping um me in my journey.

SPEAKER_03 30:53

Well, this is the thing about identity is sometimes parts of it are handed to you, and then you get to decide what you're gonna keep and what you're gonna evolve and what you're gonna leave behind. And um, you know, I think the the thing that for me around identity that like centers it all is if I just go back to my values and I continue to focus on what are my values? Yeah. What are the things that like those core um principles that I want to hold true to that I know within me, um, you know, I can sleep well at night if I stay true to those things. And there's a lot of gray area sometimes in how they get executed. Um, and you know, beliefs evolve over time and you only have a certain set of perspectives when you're determining what your beliefs are. You're never gonna have the entire 360. Um, like no matter how how much research we do, we're never gonna know all. Right. Um, and so, you know, your beliefs are things that I think it's okay to say these are a little more fluid because I feel confident in my values, because that's what my identity is attached to. I think what's challenging is when we attach our identity to our beliefs, and then we get new perspectives, we want to fight against those perspectives because they challenge our identity and who we are. And um, I think this is where for me, um like Pride Pride Month and LGBTQ rights and uh awareness and humanity come into play as like there are these beliefs people hold based on a certain perspective that you know are a part of their identity. And um they their their identity is being challenged when their beliefs are being challenged, because they're they're not linking their identity to values. And I'm not saying that's true for everybody that that has a challenge with the LGBTQ community, but I do think that that isn't in large, um, like a large part of it.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

I think you said that so much better than I did, because like that is exactly what like I I feel like I'm at. It's like, is this a value or is this a belief? Like, and and why which camp is it currently in? And why am I like why have I attached it to my identity? And why why does this make me feel like, oh, or like, oh, this is really hard. It like uh you you said that much more beautifully.

SPEAKER_03 33:39

What I value is kindness, right? Yeah, what I value is inclusion. Um I I value dignity and respect for all. Um, and that that's not earned. It's it's given. The boundaries around, you know, how we're and how you let people in, different. But um regardless, we you know, those those are the things I value. What what I believe may change over time as my perspective broadens. But when I come back to like those values, you can see where, you know, it would be obvious for me that I would land on being an ally, right? Because um, no matter what, you know, religion I grew up in told me, or, you know, the people that I was surrounded with, those things don't feel congruent to my my values. Yeah. And I think as as we work on getting clear about what our values are and um and like what our identity is and how to find that, and then what we want our identity to be, there are some activities that you can do to engage that default mode network, yeah. Um, where you can provide some inputs to help you shape your identity. And so we love expressive journaling.

SPEAKER_01 35:03

Yeah. And uh like I had to look that up because I don't think I had heard it put that way before. And it's really just your stream of consciousness. Like, just start writing.

SPEAKER_03 35:13

That's what I send you a lot when I share my little entries.

SPEAKER_01 35:17

Beautifully done, by the way. Your stream of consciousness is beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 35:20

Sometimes. Um, but just just write down what you think. Just sit down and and start writing or talking. It often works better when I'm just talking into my um into my phone. Free walking, also known as awe walking. Go for a walk without your headphones or uh a strict destination in mind and just wander around.

SPEAKER_01 35:46

Yeah, take in the surroundings. Like again, it's about putting yourself in that space that is um uh reflective. And I know that we've talked about this before, this idea of um open open monitoring meditation. Yeah. Um and I I've really struggled with that. And I know you and I struggle with meditation, like the idea of meditation. Um, but I think I finally found like a definition or or a practice or a way of describing it that works is more about instead of um like obviously you still want to sit quietly, you you're trying to observe your thoughts, um, your memories um and your feelings. It's not about like trying to control your breathing, trying to control your like it's not trying to push everything out.

SPEAKER_03 36:30

Think nothing.

SPEAKER_01 36:31

Exactly. And I think that's where you and I shrugged because like, what do you mean think nothing?

SPEAKER_03 36:35

Like constantly thinking 17 things all at the same time. Right.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

But the it's the idea of like, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:42

And observe your thoughts. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:44

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 36:45

Um without judgment, oh my gosh, that's I think the key and the hardest part. But one of the most important things that we can do for ourselves is withhold judgment.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:00

Um, because we we're we get judgy with ourselves, don't we?

SPEAKER_01 37:05

Oh, all this like we're our toughest critics.

SPEAKER_03 37:08

Like, yeah, but I feel like that phrase is so cliche that it doesn't like hold the weight anymore. Like every time I even when I think about meditation, I'm over here like, ugh, I just am not good enough because I can't meditate um well enough because I can't get a clear mind and I don't know how to do this, and this is why I'm you know broken and I'm never gonna be happy because I can't figure out how to meditate. And I go down this whole journey, and then I'm like, whoa, John.

SPEAKER_01 37:36

This is what meditation brought out.

SPEAKER_03 37:38

Yes. Like, let's pull that back and instead go, hmm, all right. So I'm sitting here trying to free my mind, and um, here are the things I'm thinking about. I wonder why these are the thoughts that are popping up. It's like just observe without judgment, um, instead of going down the judgment path of why can't I just still my mind? What's wrong with me?

SPEAKER_01 38:03

Yeah, absolutely. And I think um, like as you as I think about this uh conversation around identity, you know, it kind of why does why does that matter? And I think we've as we've been chatting for the past like, I think it's been like 15 minutes at this point, but it really like helps us like understand uh and make sense of the world and our place in it. Um, it gives us meaning, it gives us direction, it gives us purpose. Going back to the, you know, I I know we did a full episode on values and we just gave you like a little snippet of it here, but like it's I think it just goes to show like it's important, like why it's important to have these things, because it all does come together into the idea of who we see ourselves as.

SPEAKER_03 38:46

Yeah. And I mean, there's this question of who am I and where do I belong, but I like I would rival that with like who do I want to be? Um who who am I and who do I want to be? And what does the distance in between look like? Um and um, you know, I I really struggle with this um like concept of this constant search for meaning and direction and purpose. I feel like I I think I might have journaled about this and sent it to you at one point. Like this to be human feels like to just be in constant search of what is my purpose in life and what is the meaning of life and why are we here? And how did we get here? And you know, what's gonna what what does the end look like? And all of those things. And like I just think this feels like the distraction. Like, these aren't the right questions to like why is it that we feel this overwhelming need to have purpose and meaning? Like, what if we just live in the moment? What would happen if we did that?

SPEAKER_01 39:59

I I totally hear what you're saying. I feel like societally, though, like it's that purpose that is supposed to be our driver.

SPEAKER_03 40:08

Yeah, but like why?

SPEAKER_01 40:09

Right. I don't disagree with that.

SPEAKER_03 40:11

I feel like this is how religion gets its hooks in, right? Because it's like, oh, your calling and your meaning, and this is how work gets its hooks in, right? Like how all the things that we over-index on that we think become such an important part of our identity. It's in pursuit of this our meaning and our purpose. And um, I think that if we're not careful, you let your life become defined in this search for a purpose.

SPEAKER_01 40:40

You let's almost like you let something else define it for you.

SPEAKER_03 40:44

Yeah, you let your identity be defined by this search for a purpose. And like I I feel like when we get distracted, that's a distraction. It's not it's not the focus, it's the distraction. And when we get distracted by this search for purpose and meaning, we just miss out. Yeah. Um I don't hot take because everybody's all about like find your purpose and you know, whatever. But it just feels it feels like why do we need to know?

SPEAKER_01 41:16

But also when when you think of that saying like um, do the thing you love and you'll never work a day in your life, like there's truth to that, right?

SPEAKER_03 41:24

Because if you are if you are But it does the thing that you love evolve over time, right?

SPEAKER_01 41:31

Right. Like that, but that's my point is like if you're in this pursuit of living in the now and you find this thing that you are truly passionate about, and yet you have found a way to um uh bring awareness, um, I don't know, like you you you found a way to make money out of it, like it's it's it's what you're interested in. It is you are actively choosing to engage with that every day because it also refills you like it's not a drain. And I feel like that's where sometimes this why we attach identity to work or to to the thing, the big things in our lives is because well, that's what takes up our time.

SPEAKER_03 42:12

That well, do you remember the episode we talked about death?

SPEAKER_01 42:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:18

Um like I think about that a lot. And I think about identity, and I think about this like struggle with coming to full emotional acceptance of the fact that we are finite and that we are here one moment and gone the next in the little one little blip in the big spectrum of time, and that is hard to swallow. Like it is in contradiction with the human ego. And um, and I don't mean ego in a negative way, like I mean just the human ego, right? We want to persist. And so uh oftentimes I'll catch myself thinking, like, what is my purpose? What's the mark I'm gonna leave on the world? You know, how is it that when I die, I'm you know, my life won't be in vain? And then I'm like, why why do I have this compelling need to like remain after I die? Like, why, why? Why not just enjoy every moment as it comes? Like take the most out of it, and then you know, when I'm gone, I'm gone.

SPEAKER_01 43:28

Yeah, I mean, I think people talk about legacy in that sense of like wanting to leave something behind. Why?

SPEAKER_03 43:35

Why do we have this insatiable need to leave a legacy? Like, it's great, sure, but but like why? And I do think probably there's some like neuroscience in there of I didn't prepare for this part because I'm like going way off script. But like there, it's it's a part of like, you know, I uh like evolution, right? In order to To for the human race to continue to exist, we need to be encoded to be thinking about how to, you know, leave the the next generation better. Yeah. Like how do we keep existing through time? Otherwise, the octopuses are really gonna come out at octopi, octo whatever, as the like the sentient being to rule um, like I really have my money on them.

unknown 44:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 44:27

We've really gone far on this one now.

SPEAKER_03 44:30

Um when the human race dies, the octopi will rise.

SPEAKER_01 44:36

Yes, that will be the next shirt. Look for it on our shop.

SPEAKER_03 44:40

I believe it. I don't know. Um it's a belief, not a value.

SPEAKER_01 44:43

But I do like as you're saying that, like I do think um as you think of some of the like great minds who have helped um change the thinking, the views, the things like that. Part of me does wonder if if that was in a pursuit of something that they were interested in, something they were passionate about. They because there wasn't as many distractions as we have right now. Um, when you think about like we have to have a job and we have to work X amount of hours, and if we want that promotion, we want that like it was so comfortable to become distracted by all of that, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 45:22

Exactly. Because then you have something to focus on. It's like this fictitious purpose we make up. Um is and the same can be said not only for work, but for religion, for relationships, for all of these things that we fill our our life with. So it's it's interesting to think about. Um, but probably a whole nother episode. So let let's talk. We talked a little bit about we've talked a little, a little bit a lot about um how identities evolve over time. And I think we've both shared um in the past about our identities like that we have outgrown. Yeah. Like can you relate to outgrowing an identity that was assigned to you?

SPEAKER_01 46:07

Yeah. I mean, I look at my I look at who I was as like a child, as a teenager. I am not that person anymore. And it was almost as if um when I came out, I got to meet a different Chris. And like the tough part in that situation is like I'm figuring out who I am in this new world, but also people who I had known my entire life are also figuring it out as well. Um, and I'm not saying that that like that's on me or that is my journey to have to feel bad for them. But when you love people, like you, you feel for them. And so it's hard not to like take that on. And so I think as I have as I have gotten older and have come more into understanding who I am, I understand that like as much as a people pleaser as I feel I am, I am like rooted in. It's not, it's not my responsibility. It is not uh your comfortability is not mine to manage.

SPEAKER_03 47:14

Yeah, absolutely. And I I you just said that so well. Um you said that so well. It's also the thing I had in my notes as a proof of an example for you.

SPEAKER_01 47:26

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't I didn't see that.

SPEAKER_03 47:29

No, um, I didn't put it in here. It was just in my in my notes. Um, so it's it's it's funny that you that like that's the thing that you landed on. Um but you know, I think if I think about identities that I have outgrown, it's like there's a lot about um there's a lot that I have been investing time really thinking about in my past and deciding like what are the things that were assigned to me versus this the things that I believe about myself. And um, you know, I've I've I have an experience from from elementary school where there was a teacher that assigned this really negative identity to me as like this this problem. And um, you know, I was curious and I was smart and you know, I always wanted to like know more, and I just wanted to people please, and um, and I was told in front of the whole class that I was dumb and I was a problem and you know, all of these horrible things. And like that was an identity that was assigned to me that then I carried with me through a big part of my life. And um, it wasn't until I really started diving into that and going, wait a second, like what why do I want to hang on to that? That's not something I want to keep. Um, you know, so I I think just going back and thinking about what are those things, what's that voice, that judgy voice inside your head that tells you all these things? Like, where did that come from? And how did we decide to assign that as an identity? So when you hear yourself talking to yourself and saying things that aren't kind, like maybe think about where that identity came from. And oftentimes I think if we objectively observe it, it's a lot easier to get rid of.

SPEAKER_01 49:31

Yeah, I I would agree. I think whenever you challenge your current understanding of things, you you have that opportunity to kind of shift the that perspective. And I think that's the part that's like that self-reflection that's so important that we do. Yeah. Um, because like I go, I I remember this was like years ago. Um I always thought of myself as like a religious person. And then what I actually came to find out is, oh, I'm not so religious. I'm I'm more faith. I I I believe in something. Um and that was a hard thing to kind of grapple with because part of the thing that you identify with is the religion that you you say you are part of. And so like trying to navigate those that understanding, and then even seeing how much that's evolved in the past, you know, 10, 15 years. Like it's a journey.

SPEAKER_03 50:27

I I think um if I think about the identities that I'm that that I'm growing into, I think, you know, what I want is to be living uh an intentional life that's filled with joy. Like it's okay for me to be happy, it's okay for me to be content in the moment, it's okay for me to have joy. And I think about like, would somebody describe me as like at peace, calm? Um, maybe in certain scenarios, but usually not. Um, and so is that an identity that I want to grow into for myself, you know, um, that that I want more of. I don't know. Like I kind of think about some of those things as I think about the identities I'm growing into, but uh definitely pursuing the things that bring me joy versus pursuing the things that, you know, get make I have this sense will make other people believe that I am successful.

SPEAKER_01 51:30

Yeah. Yeah, I I I just think it's one of you said it earlier, you are choosing to go on this journey. And I think that's the like first spot that people have to decide on. Um am I fixed in this identity or do I get to choose my destination? And if so, where do I want to go?

SPEAKER_03 51:53

Yeah. And I so why like why is identity so important? I know we talked about that a little bit, but I do think that when we feel like we've we've lost this security around our sense of identity, it triggers this lack of this feeling of like lack of belonging. And we no longer understand where we fit in, or we feel like as our identities evolve, where we are, and what feels familiar is no longer like what is healthy or serves. Um, and we don't fit there. And so then we try and like hide our identity um in order to seek that like comfort of familiarity when it no longer we we realize it really doesn't serve. Maybe it never did, maybe it did for a time. But um, like let's talk about that because oftentimes craving the familiar, even when we realize it doesn't support who we are choosing to become, like keeps us from really embracing our own identity.

SPEAKER_01 52:59

Yeah. I mean, I think some of that goes to um, we've talked about this in previous episodes about how we as a human race are um we are social. We're social creatures. We're hardwired to want that connection. And whenever we start to question our identity, if it's attached to something like a religion or something um institutional type thing, um you begin to wonder where you fit into the bigger like, how is this gonna impact my relationships? How is this gonna impact my friendships? Am I gonna have a support group?

SPEAKER_03 53:32

Like I like going back to a here I decided to take a sabbatical and I was like, am I gonna become irrelevant?

SPEAKER_01 53:39

Like, I'm so sorry that that was even something that like went through your own.

SPEAKER_03 53:46

Like, I'm not even gonna matter anymore. They're gonna be like, oh, she just disappeared.

SPEAKER_01 53:52

Yeah. She's not working anymore.

SPEAKER_03 53:54

So sad.

SPEAKER_01 53:57

So sad.

SPEAKER_03 53:58

But it's so true. Like this in-group-out group sort of a thing. And like whether anyone thought that or not, it was certainly something that like I brought forward and thought was really important to me. So um, like what's the cost of hiding who we are in order to fit in?

SPEAKER_01 54:15

I mean, I this is the part that I think is really interesting because I think on a on a very large scale we talk about these things, but we don't really um we keep the conversation surface level and we want to treat the symptom and not identify the problem and try to solve it. So what I mean by that is like we see that there are people who um uh have mental health struggles. And a lot of it is because it's a big problem. Right. And a lot of it is because I don't have an in-group or I don't identify with an in-group. Um, I'm busy hiding something that I don't want others to find out, and that could be um a mental health thing. That could be um whatever your family background may be. Like there's so many different things that we are afraid of.

SPEAKER_03 55:06

Well, I mean, you talked about your story of coming out and like your fear of if I step into who I am, I have to be willing to give up everything that I have. I mean, th let's just think about, you know, our uh trans community. Like to think I I need to hide myself for who I really am on the inside because of what how everyone perceives me on the outside.

SPEAKER_02 55:36

Right.

SPEAKER_03 55:36

Um, and like my rights are at risk. Um in certain states, my driver's license has been revoked. Like um, I don't have health care, I can be put into jail where I am further like uh, you know, tormented.

SPEAKER_02 55:54

Right.

SPEAKER_03 55:54

Um, I mean it it's a it is a extreme challenge. Um and I I bring that up because I think it's just so important for us to remember from a perspective standpoint, this isn't about, you know, you and your personal beliefs and how this infringes upon your beliefs. It's about the livelihood of another human.

SPEAKER_01 56:18

Um and you know and humans who you may not even be aware of, like because not everyone shares it. Not everyone puts it out there.

SPEAKER_03 56:28

Forced to hide who they are. Uh right. And it's it's because it it's it's just it seems so obvious and yet it just gets lost.

SPEAKER_01 56:39

It's so interesting talking about this. I um I read read this thing earlier this week around how um and stick with me on this, it's a little bit of a journey. Um how when someone is diagnosed with cancer, uh a community steps forward to help take care of them. Doctors, loved ones, friends, like people step forward to to engage. Um but this was to bring awareness to schizophrenia and how when people are diagnosed with schizophrenia, you actually see people step away from them. And so because of that, so many people who are diagnosed with that don't share it. And so they're missing out on the opportunity to find resources, to find a community, to find the help that they need. And I think that to me is like where this idea of if we have to hide who we are for self-preservation when there are resources and people and things that can actually help us, we we are hurting ourselves, but it's out of protection. It's out of fear because we don't want that rejection. Because we, as we've talked about, rejection is activates those parts of the brain that actually receive the the the pain of touching a stove. And so we don't who wants to live in that world? Yeah. And so I'll just hide who I am, I'll hide these things.

SPEAKER_03 58:04

And it's it's people will hide their religious beliefs, their disabilities, their financial circumstances, you know, the education, family backgrounds, um, abuse, um, all all kinds of things. Um and and like I'm not suggesting that you should always let everyone see all of your identity.

SPEAKER_04 58:28

Right.

SPEAKER_03 58:29

Um, I actually I actually like have been thinking a lot about that. And and so I guess one of the conversations I wanted to have with you is like where's that balance between privacy? Like you don't have to share your full self with everyone all of the time, versus performance. This, like we love these days to say, oh, that's so performative. That's so performative. Um, like pretending to be somebody that you really aren't, often in search of belonging. Um, and and there is a difference. You don't like sometimes you do have to perform.

SPEAKER_01 59:03

Yes. Uh, but I think you have to, and this goes back to values. Am I going to perform and am I going to be able to look at myself in the mirror after that?

SPEAKER_03 59:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:13

So my my main thing is I will never hide that I am a gay man. I won't. I will not little belittle myself anymore to make myself smaller, to make anyone feel good about themselves. Um, that is my one. And so when I have the opportunity, if someone asks about my weekend or about my, you know, my family, like I talk openly about having a husband. I use his name. Like, I do not hide that part of me because I didn't see that growing up and I didn't hear that growing up. And I want people to know that there, there are people out there.

SPEAKER_03 59:52

Yeah. Representation matters. Yeah. Um, and and you belong. You're creating that belonging for others by by living holy as who you are.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:01

Correct.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:02

Um, you know, one of the things that I think incents us to hide parts of who we are is that we think that um we cannot be a contradiction. We think our identity requires this sense of consistency. Like even when you think about values, we talked a little bit about how sometimes values, it's like a Venn diagram. Um because um, you know, not the entirety of the full spectrum of the values that you have when you overlap kind of contradict with each other. And so um, you know, and this reminds me a little bit about the book that we've been reading and some of the quotes from the book, the the book atmosphere, which we're gonna talk about next week. Um, but you know, you can be both strong and sensitive at the same time. You can be both confident and uncertain at the same time. Boy, can I relate to that. You can be both masculine and nurturing at the same time, whether you're a man or a woman or a you know, whatever. Um, you can be both LGBTQ and spiritual at the same time. You can be an ally and spiritual. You can be a women's health rights ally and spiritual at the same time. You can be ambitious and content at the same time. Yep. Um, and and that one actually, I think, really hit home with me as well because I was like, oh, I still can be ambitious as I am, as a part of my identity, and also be content with where I am. I don't have to be discontent with where I am in order to want more.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:44

I love that you bring this part to this conversation because I frequently say that you are you are my um uh my perfect example of dichotomies. Like it's living in both of these mindsets, and I do think like people need like we I think we believe we have to live in these places of absolute and geez, how much are we missing out on if we only stay in those places?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:14

And so I love that you bring this forward because just because you're in one one camp doesn't mean that you don't have the ability to to roam about and wonder and and look into or try and embrace something different. Like it's okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:34

Things that we believe contradict, they're not as opposite as we think they are. Um, and this is this like in-group, out-group, black and white thinking that, you know, I don't know, part of it is human nature, part of it is cultural upbringing. But um, you know, I think a lot of religious um like indoctrination over the history, uh, particularly of America and Europe. Um, you know, I I I think because to be very black and white is a way to control, right? Yeah. And I um, and so I do think that's a part of how it wove its way in. It's like, oh, well, if you're strong, you can't be sensitive. It waters down your strength. Yeah. And, you know, what what you and I know to be true is that to be sensitive takes, requires a great amount of strength. Um, to have empathy requires you to be strong. Yeah. To um to be nurturing is to be masculine, to um, you know, be um tenacious is to be a woman, to um be ambitious is a part of being content for some people. Like I would not be able to be content if I felt like I wasn't, you know, pushing for the next thing because I need new and variety. And, you know, I'm a competitive by nature. I know that'll shock you. Um, and so I need some level of ambition in order to be happy and content. And so um, it's just so interesting because we think about these things, these con these seeming contradictions that make us question our identity and you know, who who are we and all these things. Um, we think of them like they're opposites, and we just we have the wrong picture. Like we're we've lined it up wrong. We're only looking in two dimension. And this is like a 5D movie here that we're living.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:34

Yeah, and I was just thinking as you were saying that, like if it was an eye-opening experience to read for myself, that like our identities are something that are constantly evolving, and as as we have a better understanding of the world around us and our space in it and the way we operate within it, there is like this beauty in in knowing that it's okay for us to have those contradictions. In fact, that means that we are growing.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:05

But it works to be human. Yeah. Like it's what lifts us off of the the page of the stick figure drawing into the world of humanity is to be able to hold contradictions within ourselves instead of fighting against them. Like that's what separates us from the bots. From the AI. Yeah. I mean, really, because a computer is like binary, right? Code is binary, zeros and ones. Um maybe it's maybe it's something else these days. I have no idea. But like, um, you know, like it's a it's a series of rules, right? Yes, no, the and and to be human is to be able to hold both at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:49

Yeah. And I think this really, and I know we talked about it just a couple of minutes ago a little bit, but like this is to me is why when you have an understanding of what your identity is. Is you need to share it. You need to show it. And again, be mindful and be um, not everyone deserves to know every single part of you. But it is important that people see that there are people who think differently, that live differently, that operate differently. Because whenever you see that, you begin to see what you can become. You begin to hear the stories, you begin to see like um uh the opportunities that may exist to step into. And that's how our brain learns through those social models. We're seeing it happen, we're observing these things.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:34

Oh, I so many times said um that like I learn being able to emulate somebody else, like being able to watch them, I see them, I see how they navigate through scenarios. And either I learn because I'm following or I learn because I want to do something very different.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:54

Yeah. And I think uh honestly, Jen, I do believe that you are a very good example of like helping people believe and see what's possible. Because I think even when you don't necessarily like believe or on board how whatever you want to say, you still believe that there is opportunity and you don't shut it down, you get curious. And I think that's that's something that not a lot of people are really seeing emulated right now. And it's so in important that we do have those opportunities and we can see those things and people are inspired to try. Because if not, then how are we uh like we may still evolve, we may still change, but at what rate and what possibilities could we be missing out on?

SPEAKER_03 1:07:47

Well, thank you. That's a very, very kind compliment. Um, but yeah, I mean it it is it I I have long held the belief that the only thing that stands between what I want and where I am is me. It's me not understanding what I want. It's me t believing that I can't. It's you know, I don't know, it's me some somewhere. Like there's always a path.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:13

Um, and oftentimes I do believe the biggest part of that is just getting distracted with the wrong question. Like getting hung up on the wrong thing. And that's the scary part about moving into like a diff like the back half or so of life is like all of this time, and I hope I still have at least half to go. Um, but all of this time that, you know, you have to go, who do I wanna be? What do I want to become? You're kind of doing it by this stage. And so while there's still a lot of life left to be lived, I hope, um, you know, you you kind of gotta get serious about it. And so then I go, My gosh, am I still distracted by all the wrong questions? Like, um, who, who do I wanna be? And then I guess I just have to go back to my values.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:05

Well, and stop talking about it and be about it.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:08

Yeah, well, I mean, and that's how this podcast became, right? Um, so every, every day, uh, you know, uh like just reflect for one minute, 60 seconds, 30 seconds, spend 30 seconds of reflection. Um, maybe if you don't do it every day, do it once a week. Um, and I guarantee you, if you do 30 seconds of reflection once a week on this, you'll be uh more ahead than where you were before. But ask yourself if nobody expected you to be who you've always been, who would you become next?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:44

That's such a great question.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:48

What would you do? Who would you become? And you don't have to find the best, rightest answer that's gonna be there forever because you're gonna ask yourself that question again, either tomorrow or a week from now. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:58

Correct.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:58

Um like you give yourself the permission to be in constant evolution. Correct. Um and then you don't have to to worry about getting it exactly right before you move. Um you know, I think when I come back to Pride and Pride Month, Pride is not about being perfect, it's about being proud that you stopped hiding. And it's the courage to stand firmly even when you feel shaky and claim who you are and who you want to be and the distance that's in between those two spots. Um not just waiting until you get to the place that you want to be and judging yourself for the place that you're in, but to claim where you are today and fully own it and live in it, and to claim where you want to be and to claim all of the space that's in between there.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:45

Yeah. And I like that's why we're having this conversation to kick off Pride Month, because as much as I feel it is pertinent to the LGBTQ plus community and for the allies and for people who are maybe trying to understand themselves um or early on in this um journey of being an ally, um, or understanding your identity. Like this is something that impacts everyone, every single one of us. Um and so let this be inspirational to you. We hope that it is something that you can carry forward into your day and maybe just spend a little time reflecting on, you know, who you are right now in this moment. That does not mean that that is the person you have to be for the next 20 years.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:33

Yeah, absolutely. So um we really appreciate you joining us today. And um, we'd love for you to share with us. We want to know what you think. Do you have thoughts um that are different from ours about identity and belonging and values and all the things that we've talked about? Do you have experiences that would help us expand our perspective? Um, depending on what platform you're listening to. You can leave a comment. You can reach us via email at connect at Chris and Jenitm.com. Um, you can text us at 940-278-8129.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:12

And don't forget to follow us on all our social media platforms for all of the great content. We are on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook as Chris and JenITM. ITM stands for in the morning. Um, and follow, like, subscribe, comment, share. Um, you know, we hope that these are um moments that can be inspirational, but also hopefully bring a little levity to your day because uh we're not all serious all the time.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:36

We we're not all serious all the time. We're in fact um most of the time not so serious. And happy Pride Month. We're so excited to kick it off. We'll be here all month talking about things that are relatable to all of us, um, but that also make us really think about um, you know, pride and LGBTQ awareness and support and you know, all of the the things that that we have to grapple with. Um and until next time, be kind to yourself, to one another, and make it a great week. Bye, everyone.